Consider this: the books aren't his library. The books are the lure that draws in the minds of men and mer, seekers of knowledge, but the true library is the inky black ocean that lies underneath. If we look at his appearance and at the tendrils specifically that he summons and uses they look like they're made of ink, perhaps constructed from all the knowledge he's stolen over the millennia. If that is indeed the case, then the true danger is getting grabbed and drawn down into those depths, never to re-emerge again. One's mind and memories become part of the library, drawn in by the promise of forbidden knowledge. Of course, that's all just speculation.
Makes even more sense when you consider how books of lore and knowledge are made - penned in ink. The idea of a boundless sea of ink, the conglomerate of all knowledge obtained by Herma Mora, and Mora itself drawing upon that same ink to give itself form - literally incorporating itself from tangible knowledge collected across eons - is awesome. In a way being like the Elder Scrolls version of the River Styx, only instead of a vast watery mass composed of souls it's made of pure knowledge and information...and you can get yourself lost and overwhelmed in that much knowledge just as easily were you to fall in.
Hm is the most obviously Lovecraft influenced creature in TES. In most of Lovecraft's works, the boons granted usually lead to insanity or dire consequences. Mora has serious cthulu vibes.
This is definitely my favorite Daedric Prince in Elder Scrolls. He gives you so much useful knowledge, only demanding few sacrifices. This guy definitely know what happened to Dwemer.
A few sacrifices? I mean, your mental stability is a pretty large sacrifice. Most Daedric Prince's come with an underlying "fine print", so you've gotta be careful. If he wants more from you, he's gonna get it through master temptation/manipulation. All depends on what you're looking for.
@@FaLaN69 It is a secret. Nobody knows for sure what happened. There is a lot of speculation. I myself subscribe to the theory that they zero-summed after the Numidium activated, but there isn't enough evidence to confirm nor deny that theory.
@@FaLaN69 Yes and no. We know why they disappeared, most of the community agrees on that. But the true secret is what happened to them/where they went.
I think Hermeaus Mora's need for a dragon born to collect and harvest dragon souls is more in line with the established lore of the dragons and how they share knowledge. Their souls. When a dragon is killed there is no body to decompose, just bone. And when Alduin resurrects dragons so too do their memories return. Since Hermeaus Mora cannot access this dragon souls and memories passively as he normally does with other races, thus the use of the dragon born. For Hermeaus Mora it's like getting access to the forbidden part of a library. And knowledge of Akatosh, since the dragons are born timeless and of himself. Kind messed up in a way. "I (Hermeaus Mora) will use your (Akatosh) creation to slay your spawn to gain knowledge of you."
From dragons only bones remain, all soft tissue is transferred by the soul to the dragonborn. So what's left is like a dried out husk... All water of the dragon's organism (all memories) go to someone else
@@witoldendrju2458 it's too bad you can't get more knowledge per dragon, like the example if that dragon you just killed knew more shouts, that would reflect on the player and once it's soul is absorbed, you have access to that dragons' knowledge of the shouts that it mostly used.
In Doctor Who, there is an entire planet that's a library. In the episodes, they refer to this library as "a great big forest" because the books are made from wood. Perhaps Herma Mora is the woodland man because his woods are the library of Apocrapha
21:06 I just realized why it took so long for Hermeaus to take the skaals knowledge because they keep entombing their bodies in stahlrim which is literally divine ice 🧐
Great tie in, but also I believe that the Divine Ice is only part of the reason. I think we need more texts available on the subject in the tombs found on Solstheim that would shed light on this.
I can’t remember whether or not this is the case, but I think another reason is because the Skaal follow a tradition somewhat based off of Native American practices. They don’t write down their lore and history, instead only orally telling it from one shaman to the next. They don’t keep records, instead passing their history on through the years by storytelling and folklore. Herma Mora can’t take their knowledge because it’s only told behind closed doors, never bound to a page.
It’s an interesting analogy that Vivek uses for being a god. It almost sounds exactly like playing a video game, while playing u are “awake” within that worlds time but u are still awake within the real world (in which u are very busy). When u die or log off, it doesn’t matter how long u wait in the real world cause time will not have moved in the game when u log in or awaken
This is deliberate. Some of the descriptions of CHIM abilities amount to things like "save and reload", "open the console" and "look it up on the wiki"
Mora has a lot of references to HP Lovecraft stories. The Wood Man is a reference to Shug Niggurath of the Wood and its 1000 young. Mora's 'young' are his servants in Apocrypha The underwater sense of Apocrypha is R'leyth which is Cthullu's home. People that get fully ensnared by Mora are transformed into the tentacle face monsters. In HP's novels it is the hope of the Cult of Cthullu to be transformed into bodies that can't die. The Lurkers are the Deep Ones who hope for Cthullu to once again awaken. The book with Elf Skin and Black Books is clearly a parallel to the Necronomicon.
This was my favorite Skyrim DLC. Lovecraftian af. So cool that Herma plays on the Lovecraft quote, “The oldest and most primal fear is the fear of the unknown.”
I felt the Lovecraftian influence. Really loved it. To augment your quote, I'll quote a famous Iron Maiden song:"Fear of the dark, fear of the dark, i have a constant fear that someone's always there." I wish there was more than just this Skyrim DLC about Lovecraft! We all know we want Oblivion gates to come back!⛩️
Lovecraft got it wrong. The oldest fear was that time a caveman watched his buddy get eaten by a wild animal. The second oldest fear is the fear of the unknown. Then probably the dark. Then what was in the dark. In exactly that order.
Herma Mora is probably my absolute favorite deity in the Elder Scrolls Universe. I love the idea of his whole existence being based around the acquisition of forbidden knowledge. Just thinking of all the things he knows about everyone and everything throughout history.
I think another aspect in the rivalry between Hermaeus Mora and Vaermina is that they both collect memories and could be fighting over who gets to keep them.
The idea that the memories of departed souls reside within the waters of the mortal plane (a strange parallel to how Daedra, when their forms are destroyed, are cast upon the waters of Oblivion until they can reform) has aaaaaaaaall sorts of interesting implications. When you drink water, you are refreshing yourself with the echoes of lives past. When you cry, you release some small part of a moment that is too great for your soul to fully contain. And Skyrim, land of ice and snow, is also the land of frozen echoes of the past... home, also, to snow from the Throat of the World which never melts -- memories forever sealed away. Poetic, but it goes to show just how much room to play there is with this tidbit of lore.
@@ShadowMage Then think about the mushrooms in Blackreach and red nirnroot. Also, didn't Falmer drink from the underground mushrooms? So, did consuming some unbearable memories change the Falmer? Another thing. Think about the entire continent of Lyg, or Yokuda. Even Black Marsh itself is just a province filled with still water, and remnants of old empires forgotten by choice by the Argonians.
Another interesting thing regarding Herma Mora and Ysgramor is the theory that Ysgramor was a dragon. While this is unlikely due to seeing him in Sovngarde, I find it more likely the Ysgramor was the first true Dragonborn, he himself ignorant of that fact. It would explain Herma Moras obsession with Ysgramor, and in failing to acquire him, setting his eyes and tentacles on Miraak next
@@rauls.g.2518that’s completely consistent with irl famous people. Everyone, especially powerful people like rulers, are the first something. It’s like how everyone claimed to be the successor to Rome
I always considered the Mora part referring to forests was how books are made and pages being considered leaves. Books and knowledge are often associated with deities of wood and forests. The Celtic god Ogham which the Oghma Infinium shares etymology with is such a deity.
Hermaeus Mora (IMO) existed before Akatosh, before time, thus he experienced the universe before things have been put in chronological order and that is why he is the daedric prince of fate. He knows all possible outcomes, but not which one will come to pass. Also, it would make sense if he was created from the throwaway ideas from when the "gods" were created, not mortality.
Nice theory, the established consensus is that Akatosh actualized himself, then the other Gods/Spirits started to become who they are, that is why he is the primordial spirit of time.
My idea for the brain jars. It's when someone realizes they did not in fact want the forbidden knowledge they learned and asks hermaeus to "take it away"
Wait... I just noticed something at 20:34 : "Hermaeus Mora taught her how to sever her ties to Oblivion and bind herself to Mundus." This sounds very much to me like what Lorkhan did. Binding himself to Mundus, although on a much larger scale in his case. The "sever one's ties to Oblivion" part sounds even more like Lorkhan if you believe Mankar Camoran's claim that Lorkhan is, or was, a Daedra. So, could Hermaeus Mora be somehow related to Lorkhan ? Perhaps Septimus Signus had good reasons to think he would find the Heart of Lorkhan inside that Dwemer vault.
Theory about the forest association: Memories are stored in the water and knowledge on paper. A tree has its roots steeped in memory and it's branches etched with knowledge. A forest is a reservoir of memories and a future treasure trove of knowledge yadda yadda. Apocrypha also having flying scrolls above, like leaves in the wind, and being rooted in the inky water below is also very tree-like.
I just got my boyfriend into TES and have recommended every single one of your videos for him to watch, but I will DEFINITELY put this one on the top of the list for him, he is such a knowledge buff and so incredibly booksmart, even though he only has around 10 hours of gameplay, I already know that Hermeaus More will be his favorite Daedra!
@@martinroner5688 he already knows most of the gameplay things because he´s watched me play and has played a bit in the past aswell, just never enough to really get into the game so it´ll be fine, but thanks!
I always took morag tongs "forester guild" meaning to be the dunmers own variation of the term. If you think about it, the morag tong helps to serve the peace within resdayn, cleaning out the country through legal writs. From their perspective, it's their own way of having sheriffs. Just my thoughts
A big question that comes to mind every time your videos talk about dragons is *why* they or by extension dragonborns so often become corrupted by the pursuit of power. Paarthurnax himself said it was deeply ingrained in a dragon's nature to dominate others. Even their combat is a literal form of debate where they are essentially imposing their will over others. It really makes you wonder. Is it just Akatosh's innate desire to create order, or is this somehow tied into Mo-lag Bal? Either way I'm curious.
sounds like the idea behind dogs being the Alpha dog. every dog engages in this idea, but at the end only one will dominate over all. translate this to dragons, and every dragon assumes their dominance over lower beings, which is probably why there is a need for a dragonborn to assume as much knowledge and power for themselves as much as possible to win that battle, but there is also mention that Alduin will eventually come back at some point in unknown future. maybe Hermaus Mora wants Alduin for himself. it's weird thinking about this, because it sort of ties into another theory i have had about the literal Oblivion gate that leads to sovengard within Skaldofin, like how did that gate get there? i can assume that the ancient Nords were guided by one of the deadra and they built it for Alduin to go to sovengard, but not much else i can say about this idea since no other location within any of the dragon priest temples has anything like this within their temples or ruins.
@@5226-p1e Tbh I think that portal wasn't just for Alduin but all Nords to perhaps go and visit to gain knowledge from their kin. Pretty sure ESO is where that idea comes from
@@thalmoragent9344 ESO's creation came after skyrim was made. meaning ESO's story didn't exist until it was created, but i think i know what you mean, because ESO essentially created their own fiction based on the lore of the entire series, i personally think of ESO as an alternate reality within the elder scrolls universe, as according to the lore of the series says that many things happened during the dragonbreak of the past that caused multiple alternate history's within other realities to happen simultaneously at once, and ESO is just one of these alternate realities, where a lot about the factions is the same, but many circumstances are different in how they played out. in ESO the races all around tamreal are united, but in the main reality universe, everyone is still not as united, but i suspect they did this in ESO because it was an MMO and because they wanted to write a unified story that involved all of tamreal against molag bal. you see in the lore of skyrim, it follows the lore of the rest of the series in the single player games, where ESO essentially rewrites that already known history and bends it into something else that didn't happen in the lore within the universe that elder scrolls skyrim exists within or the main reality that most of the series goes off of. but something interesting within ESO's lore helps fill in the gaps of history within the main reality of the series, i mean in ESO you get to learn a little bit more about some mysterious characters such as Shalidor, in skyrim game he was a brutal man with a mysterious past into how he became so powerful, but in ESO you get to learn a little bit more about him from another perspective. but the bigger story's within ESO like molag ball coming to tamreal didn't happen in the main universe, but mehrunes dagon invasion did happen.
@@5226-p1e I think you've gone too far mate. In ESO, the Races very much aren't all united, there are three factions at _war_ with each other for claiming Cyrodill, and the lore in ESO has been more or less brought into compliance with the mainline series (We'll know for sure when TES6 comes out). And the issue of your thought is that _ALL_ timelines are brought back together at the end of a Dragon Break, so there aren't any alternate universes.
I would also like to note that dragons are not mortal, so there is the possibility that their memories and knowledge are not deposited into the waters, but held with them in the meta-physical streams of time, somewhat inaccessible to Herma Mora, and so requires that unique ability of the dragonborn to be able to absorb them, and their knowledge, something that they canonically do as said in game, to then get these souls, and thus their knowledge and memories. Also, just a random thought, the dragonborn is like a hyper specific, ultra soul gem.
The Miraak/Alessia "first dragonborn" problem actually has another solution that doesn't involve wacky time travel. Obviously, Miraak's existence was a retcon by Bethesda because they don't care about existing lore, but when pressed about it, Pete Hines gave an answer that basically said Miraak and Alessia had different kinds of "dragonborn" powers. Extrapolating from that, Hines's answer is implying there are different kinds of dragonborns. Miraak and the Last Dragonborn are one kind -- I call them "dovahkiin" or "dragon slayer" dragonborns as their power is the ability to absorb the souls of slain dragons -- and the various dragonborn emperors and empresses are a different kind, what I call "Aka" dragonborns, as their power was to light the Dragonfires.
I think this is not even a bad retcon and I always thought it was like that. The two types was created by Akatosh, which is the dragon god, dragonborn is like saying that someone is a child of Akatosh, everything related to Akatosh uses dragon terms, like Dragon Breaks, for example.
Since the TES deep lore Is full of stuff like this, I prefer the retcon the guys presented in this video. Bethesda, however, is as malicious as the Thalmor. They inherited a great creation and with each passing entry -save perhaps modern ESO- they unravel creation ever more. I'm sure by TES VI, there will be no more reconcilliation, no More Dragon Breaks or alternate explanations that fans can come up with to justify the butchering of setting and Lore.
@@thewonderfullymadejaraid7015 That's the easiest explanation there is, and pretty sound characterization for Hermaus Mora to erase Miraak from history to the best of his ability. He wants to hoard him like a piece of information, obviously.
I hope we get a game that focuses on Vaermina as the main daedra to get emphasis, I would love to know more about the Prince of Dreams relationship to the dreaming Godhead
Okay, this just blew my mind. I've always thought the book shelves in Apocrypha were a bit underwhelming, considering they're supposed to hold the secrets of the universe. But knowing that the real library is not the books, but the vast, endless inky sea is awesome. Plus, even with the Black Books, the actual book part is normal, the special thing is the swirling magic ink.
My absolute favorite prince out of all of them. I still remember the first time I played through Skyrim before the DLC came out, and he appeared as just a big blue orb at the cave entrance. Then playing the game again after the DLC came out and being so astonished by how much they changed his appearance for that same interaction. As soon as I saw that, I knew this storyline was going to be incredible. I've always been interested in hermetecism, and the problematic HP Lovecraft, so to see the merging of these two themes in a single questline was so fun. (Not sure of the same two themes have been conjuntively explored in other games like it was here, since Skyrim is the only ES game I've played 😅🤷)
_I last received a whisper from him six months ago. Before then, it had been five years, and three before that. His thoughts are no longer intelligible in any language. Perhaps he is still in Apocrypha, lost but happy, in a trap he refuses to escape. Perhaps he slipped between the stacks and passed into the Madhouse of Sheogorath, losing his sanity forever._ _I would save him if I could._ *_I would silence his whispers if I could._*
Nice to see I'm not the only one who noticed the parallels with Hermes and the hermetic school. Digging a bit deeper Hermes (aka. Hermes the thrice born) is also associated with and thought to be the same person by some of thoth the Egyptian God scribe of knowledge and all things mystical and occult in nature.
Regarding Fragmentae Abyssum Hermaeus Morus, I wonder about the analogy at work. Hare are prey animals - actually, they're the ARCHETYPAL prey animals, while foxes obviously have associations with predators, cunning, and ironically being tricksters. It is interesting to me that the archetypal prey animal tried to advise Ysgramor, while the archetypal trickster animal interceded. It should also be noted that both the hare and the fox gave the same answer to Ysgramor - the stag is in the vale. They were both technically correct and leading him to the same quarry. Given the relationship of Shor/Lorkhan with Aurbis, or rather the dichotomy of Anu and Padomay, it seems fitting that the hare, which perhaps represents Anuic ideals, is prey, while the fox, which represents Padomaic ideas, is predator, and that in true trickster fashion, we are misled into thinking that the fox is not the trickster, when in representing Shor it is the archetypal trickster of the monomyth, Lorkhan - and the trick is that the Shor told us nothing that we didn't already know from Herma-Mora. The stag awaits in the Vale. This evokes Watership Down to me. Indeed, there's obvious thematic similarities, in the Watership Down creation myth the sun is a god who created the creatures, and the hares were multiplying and outnumbering everyone so the sun gave all of the other animals unique qualities to make them predators to the hare. When it came time to bless the prince of hares and his people, the prince hid from the sun and tried to deceive it, and so the sun blessed the prince with speed and cunning to evade the predators, rather than the means to fight and overcome them. It's interesting to imagine that this is what Herma-Mora represents: in the war of metaphors that is Elder Scrolls, there is one who does not pit his metaphor against others, but instead thru cunning seeks to avoid the war altogether.
I love ol' Herma-mora. Just straight up Yogg-Sothtoh. also my favorite line is related to Mora, "Sounds like a bargain to me. Hermaeus Mora learns some fascinating new ways to skin a horker and you become the second most powerful Dragonborn that ever lived."
Hermetic - "From Medieval Latin hermeticus, irregular derivation of Hermes Trismegistus, the god and mythological alchemist, said to possess a magic ability to seal treasure chests so that nothing could access their contents"
Isn't total Knowledge what Jyggylag had? Does that mean Jyggylag and Herma mora share similar spheres? If Jyggylag was a threat to all other daedric lords, was this one such way he threatened herma mora?
Jyggy's sphere is order. The other explanation for Jyggy is that his story about being the Numero-Uno is complete bunk and that Jyggy is just another aspect of Sheogorath's insanity instead of being a separate prince.
Jyggalag had total order. The princes were threatened since a perfectly ordered army is undefeatable, so they cursed him into the total opposite of everything he represents, complete madness
The dragon souls theory falls in line with my personal head canon. I always choose the "I'm not your servant" type dialog options and avoid using dragon souls to respec my skills. In my opinion you can't harbor "fantasies of rebellion against" a Daedric prince if you have the free will to resist their temptations.
That's what I found alittle scary about hermaous. You don't get a choice, to defeat Mirrak you have to help hermaous and we saw what happened to his last champion. You can choose to not serve afterwards but its impossible to beat Mirrak without the bend will shout
Well you sever mora anytime you develop a skill if I am getting my lore right it’s sort of that way with every daedric prince kill a dragur you support Meridia you get black out drunk you serve Sanguine or maybe I just have this all wrong
There is a lovely essay written about the "prisoner" concept of the elder scrolls games. Basically the Prisoner, capital P, aka the player characters are fateless and are the only "people" on nirn with true free will. You start all the games as a no one, no background, no name or identity just a "prisoner" you then break your metaphorical chains by playing the game as you the player, not a god, daedra or anyone elses, will dictates. Thus you are the only one to stand up to those who would break the natural order of the world by beating either litteral (dagoth ur) or figurative (miraak) "sharmats" or those who want to "replace"/believe they are the godhead and destroy the dream. Mora knows Miraak could never truly become a sharmat and never felt threatened by him cuz he never had the full picture of how the world works and thus could never truly a/decend. The last dragonborn however is 100% potential and could definitly be a threat to mora and everyone else in the universe, so to me it makes sense that mora would do ANYTHING he could to get his tentacles on their soul, both perhaps out of curiosity but mostly selfpreservation. Idk just something fun to speculate i can link the essay to anyone interested its an interesting read if anything.
I feel like Mora is the repository of all things ejected from Sithis. Brought from the darkness by his brother sisters and hidden from Mortals in his libraries. Knowledge is often considered binding and perhaps hermaus Mora binds akatosh with The Forbidden Knowledge pulled from chaos and bound onto page and thus constricting the dragon God to travel one path with fate.
Delightful, hema mora is my favorite deadric prince. Is there any relation between the skeleton key and hemaus moras realm. Both allowing you to access expertise that previously unobtainable
@@SeaJay_Oceans How can you erase peoples minds? And he is the scrapes left over from the creation of mundious. To kill him or wipe his memory would be to destroy an entire other existence
@@LordMortanius Ik it is nocturnals artifact. I asked do you think there is a relation, it would be cool to think about how the potential is realized and how information plays a role in that. I was just wondering about the overlap
Mirrak wasn't saved by Hermaous, he was kidnapped and added to his library. Once Mirrak had plans and was able to leave apocrypha, Hermaous didn't want to lose his knowledge being free so he killed Mirrak and replaced him with us. We aren't Hermaous Moras champion, we are his prisoner. Even if we can walk free unlike Mirrak, he is watching us constantly to see what we see and learn what we learn
I have been researching the hermetic principles and history and you really nailed a lot. This is very thought-provoking and I have to say in a weird way you have helped me with my research of real life history and furthered my interest in these games. Thank you.
@@lazilycatharticone4191 Lmao, imagine 💀 Then either the Aurbis receives basically an earthquake at its foundations, or perhaps the Kalpa just resets without any major event to cause it like Alduin or Dagon. Then it's like; Auri-El; "Xarxes... my dear Scribe... what in Anu's name have you done?" Lorkhan; "Juhnal, bro... what did you do?" The Daedric Princes; "Mora... for the love of these Padomaic waters, what were you even thinking?!" Meanwhile, the Trio; "Well um... it's a new Dawn Era, you guys wanna maybe start off on the right foot, try everything out again?" Auri-El; 🤔 Both: "Fine, deal" Lorkhan; 🤨 All the other Et'Ada; "wait, you guys... actually gonna work together this time? Well dang, say less" Xarxes, Mora and Juhnal; *sweating in the background profusely* "Thank the Godhead"
@@thalmoragent9344 Auriel to Lorkhan: "Bro's before hoes?" Lorkhan: "From the streets she came" Auriel: "To the streets she shall return" Auriel & Lorkhan: "So I say unto you, she is for the streets. So be not worried, for she must return from whence she came" Kyne and Mara: *Stares nervously into the void*
@@lazilycatharticone4191 Lmao facts 🤣 Funny too cause, if we go off some theories and the like, some interpretation says Mara left Auriel for some reason, and left to join Lorkhan, becoming his Concubine in Lorkhan's Atmoran Pantheon where hes called Shor, and then it's said Morahaus is Kyne and Hircine's son (a beast who has master of the Thu'um and all that other stuff), so after Lorkhan died Kyne just went on to the next dude. If these are both actually what happened (assuming we toss the myths together and take their titles as literal) then yeah, they both have reason for the "Bro's before Hoes" thing 😅 Do I believe them, well, the Morahaus one I think actually does have some credence to it. As for Mara leaving Auriel, for whatever reason, I'm not sure. Mara's typically the time Gods wife so for her to be involved with Lorkhan with the Nordic Pantheon says a lot.
I consider myself well versed in the lore and then I see this and now I'm officially a failure (I didn't get it) Mainly because I know very little about Xarxes and Juhnal.
Mora likely wishes to have the souls of dragons to gain their knowledge and understanding of the Thu'um and the meaning of it's words, such as how Paarthurnax mentions that dragons have a deeper understanding of yol than mortals of fire, or mortals of fade than dragons of feim And perhaps the way he "refunds your perks" is by using the soul of the dragon, AKA fragment Alduin/Akatosh, to turn back time only for the Last DB
i'm not sure, because he also has created shout walls of his own creation of shouts that didn't exist, or maybe they were lost to the ages and he just absorbed them and revived them. i mean Miraak had a shout that was a 4 word shout that was meant to instantly rip a dragons soul and essentially kill it with one shout. it's weird thinking about this, but it's my theory that he didn't have this ability back when he was fighting vehaloc the dragon priest. he might have had the bend will shout, but i think this 4 word shout came later, meaning he thought he could take on the dragons as a full force as he was overconfident in his ability's, and it wasn't that vehaloc almost defeated him, he had help of an army of dragons fighting with him, throwing everything they had to take Miraak down. it was because Miraak became overwhelmed and got tired that he almost died as Hermaous Mora saved him and pulled him into Apocrypha.
@@5226-p1e I actually think he didn’t have either ability and it was either given by Mora or something he learned during his time which then mora could take and give the knowledge to the other DragonBorn
@@acat6145 Well according to the lore, Miraak had the capability to bend the will of the dragons before he was put with in apocrypha. All of these shouts can be learned via through the Black Books, and hermaeus Mora from within his realm. But I would believe you're correct on the other point of the other Shout, among many other things that he learned how to deal with in apocrypha. I remember when I wanted to write that fanfiction, so I did as much research as possible into the actual lore of the game, I did get some of that fan fiction written down, but I never really did finish it. I had this really cool alternate ending planned out that basically allowed Miraak to leave apocrypha and take over Skyrim and prevent the Civil War and turn them into his armies along with the dragons already within the landscape. But never did finish the story, they had a great premise, but for whatever reason I felt as if it was always missing something, which caused me to go back and start writing a story again, I made many different variations, and in each variation I essentially wanted to start over the story. It sucks to have OCD of Storytelling.
I was playing skyrim and right outside of whiterun I see hermaeus mora spying on me, it's very far in the distance but you csn see his little green blob dissappear and reappear, totally freaked me out
All i can say for people who find the concepts in this and the molag bal video interesting, play the Vigilant, Glenmoril and Unslaad trilogy of mods! These mods are a Kirkbride wetdream of ideas refrences and philosophy and really nail how similar the elder scrolls series is thematically to the soulsborne games. Vigilant: the "simplest" of the mod delves into the past, a lot of refrences to previous games and the corrupting influence of molag bal over the ages. The mods final act takes you to coldharbour and (SPOILERS) have molag bal groveling at your feet at the end and even having you feel a strange sort of sympathy for him. Much of what fudgemuppet said in their dedicated molag video holds true for this version, a bitter, abusive, abused god that lets his bitterness blind him to the fact that he is litterally a pawn to those around him. Lamai baelfag is a central player in strangely humanizing bal in a way as the situation is shown as being a deeply traulatizing experience, not just for the victim but also the ones around her and even her rapist who in this version wasnt bal himself but a vessel he took over(which turns out of have been a puppet of mora ontop of it all) aka her actual lover. Glenmoril: Glenmoril deals with the present and is still unfinished but this one seems to be far more rooted in Skyrim and more what goes on in the background of said game. What seems to be a simple go here hunt this questline turns the attention to the dragonborn as a character as a very elaborate web is spun by mora all for one simple reason: he is terrified of being forgotten. Mora sets the plan in motion with the goal of having you stand in a nexus point in time/a culmination of dragonbreaks to reach CHIM so that he can do it through you and hopefully escape once the end of this kalpa comes. You can choose to burn it all down, let mora escape or create something new which brings us to- Unslaad: The end of the trilogy and arguably the story of the dragonborn (i always finish my playthrough with this). It shows the abject horror it is to be the last dragonborn and that the end of the kalpa is enevitable, Prisoner or not. Unslaad is about the dragonborn reaching AMARANTH and creating a new place where the old can end and new begin, it is AN ending of Glenmoril. But most importantly it shows killing alduin had consequenses that the eternal extention of this kalpa has consequenses for everyone and especially the last dragonborn. Its a bitter sweet ending to a long journey and personally these three mods always spell the end of a playthrough for me as they are so narrativly perfect to the backdrop skyrim provides.
To tie into the Woodland Man thing: The Celts have a forest God, Herne or Cernnunos. I would love to investigate further on Hermaeus Mora's ties to Azura, particularly into how it links to Khajiit lore.
I mean all I'm really hearing from this is that Herma be the nerd of the group. Dagon: So should we invite herma to the party? The rest: NO! Are you nuts he's just gonna talk about books an ask people if they know anything about Skall weaving techniques! Molag Bal: Yeah dude that incel ain't even funny when he's drunk and he doesn't even drink that much. Mephala: Yeah total vibe killer! Lets not tell him about Saturday. Meanwhile, Herma's like: I feel like there's yet even more information being kept from meeeeee! :((((((
Something I was surprised wasn't mentioned is that dragon souls contain all the knowledge of the dragon that owned them. This is why you use dragon souls to learn shouts. Arngeir explains this to the Dragonborn
I recommend any of you who are interested in this video, to play Vicns (pretty sure that's right) mod vigilant. It's underlining story is about this concept. It involves herma mora, jhunal AND dragonborns. The other mods he makes delve further into that underlining story. I will give links to the reddit posts where the translator explains the premise of the story and the back story involving hermaous mora.
I think Ahzidal's obsession with knowledge making him go mad with it may have proven to be exactly what Hermaeus Mora was looking for, and Ahzidal wasn't even worshipping him. Guy learned from worship of Juhnal first, then Xarxes (he was so smart among the Clevermen of Saarthal that he went to the Snow Elves, and others, for their magics, making him the first human to truly master any Elven magics) He left his own family for knowledge for quite some time, and probably regretted it a little since Saarthal would get yeeted before he returned, his family supposedly killed (well, the term "dead or gone" was used, maybe they were taken prisoner) Interestingly, he went to the Snow Elves for even more knowledge, after the Night of Tears, likely meaning the Snow Elves didn't kill or want all Nords/Nedes in Skyrim dead, only Saarthal, and were even willing to teach him more since its not every day that Elven Wizard's meet a human with 200 IQ for magic. Then Ysgramor comes back and boom, uses him as a Mage to help thwart and kill the Snow Elves, that Ahzidal would now betray for (supposedly) murderering his family. Be careful who you teach, otherwise you sadly get the Snow Elf treatment 😥
Hermaeus Mora, Hermes of the Forrest, Hermes of the world tree, the all seeing eye in Mimir's well, Hermes of the Moirai, the web of Mephala is the root-branches of the Tree - eye, the bind of world-strings, the 9th of Her 8, Hermes Mortal, Hermes of Death
In old times, the woods were full of unknown danger and secrets. Now? It's the ocean. Soon? The void of space. Hermaeus Mora assumes the form that matches what is the source of the unknown both to strike fear in mortals and to entice the foolish wise ones.
Have been thinking alot lately about a "daedric prince of the sea" and the more I think about it, Hermaeus Mora feels like the perfect fit as lord of the unknown, abyss and hidden lore.
The concept of gods and time in the Elder Scrolls universe makes me think of us when we play videogames. From our character's perspective, a few month's worth of adventure might just be an all-nigther for us. In-game time means nothing to us because we can nullify or revert progress in the blink of an eye, even restart the campaign whenever we so desire. And those of us who have already completed the game knows what will happen, whereas our character remains in happy ignorance, trapped in a cycle that only we are intimately aware of. From the character's perspective, we (the player) live both in the past and future. The thing with videogames is that they are still very limited in the sense you can only do things within the confines set by the developers. Imagine a sufficiently advanced and complex game where you can alter the campaign each time you play, with an AI that keeps adapting to your choices. That's what I think Hermaeus Mora tries to do; to alter the fabric of universe by messing with time and fate. He can anticipate the future because chances are he already witnessed it all, but as with before, time-wise, he is both in the past, present and future. Just like us. Subsequently, every character we play is both their own individual and a part of us. The "chosen one" of every cycle is really just a puppet for a "divine being" to control experience that universe through them. Truth be told, there can be a repeated pattern here; world inside of a world, inside of a world. If the Elder Scrolls had been made with the technology from, say, 50 years into the future - would it be akin to a parallel universe? If our characters gained some form of self-awareness and sentience beyond our control, would it still be ethical to "control" them? Or are we akin to their souls, where without us they are no different from ordinary NPCs in auto-mode? And what does that say of ourselves and our world IRL? Are we in a simulation too? And how far does that rabbit hole go?
I think the main reason Vaermina is an enemy of Hermaeous Mora is because not only does she deal in fiction, but she also steals memories and replaces them with nightmares. Herma Mora wants memories to gain knowledge, so she is actively stealing what he wants once humans die, and replacing it with fictions. We learn this during the waking nightmares questline
Another interesting theory could be that Hermeus Mora is infact two daedra sharing a single portfolio. Herma/Hermeus and Mora being two entities under a single title much akin to the relationship between Akatosh and Auriel, especially considering its portfolio includes being a trickster God. This would help explain how distinct ut is to have relations with both land and sea, the woodlands and depths both are associated with the deeper you go the darker it gets.
Excellent video. I think about the parallel of Herma-Mora being a trickster to the Nords, while Shor/Lorkhan is a trickster to the Altmer. Mora attempted to trick the Ysgramor, and in whole the nords, into becoming elves. Shor/Lorkhan tricked the Elnophey into becoming mortal. I don’t think there’s any connection there but it’s an interesting idea I haven’t seen shared.
Knowing how Akatosh bestows the title of "Dragon Born" doesn't mean he has the capacity to do so himself. He knows the ins and outs of everything, there is no topic to taboo or unknown to allude him but just because he understands what why when where and how there are plenty of things he is incapable of doing. He seeks those with Dragon blood because they posses abilities and talents that he CAN NOT do himself. He is like a puppeteer, he knows more about the dragon born then any of them could hope to find out themselves yet cant become one. He understands how thumms work and how knowledge can be gained from their souls, but he cant absorb them himself. What he can do however, is scope out those given the power LONG before they ever actually receive it (maybe even before Akatosh himself has made the choice) He knows everything they've ever done and all they'll ever do. Every burning desire and every hopeful dream, and he knows exactly what it would take for them to willingly give themselves up and bend to his will.
I think the fate of the Dragonborn heavily depends on who they are as an individual. If the Dragonborn is a Telvanni Wizard with a somewhat agreeable attitude, I feel like they’d be very comfortable doing whatever Mora wanted for more knowledge. Also there is no way they lack the ego for CHIM because ya know Telvanni Wizard 😂
An interesting fact I'll add from the possible real world inspiration for the name, the name Ogma is the name of the Celtic God of Knowledge. Just figured I'd share that :)
Theory: During the DB dlc hermeus mora wanted the secrets of the skaal as said during the garderner of men quest When you do go to the village and offer it they say that the deadric prince is the "long enemy" and even mora says "finally the secrets of the skaal are mine!"back to the theory: the prince may have been wanting to get the skaals secrets because while his realm has the secrets of the past present and future, yk what the point is. The skaal may have been as old as the creation of the world. The deadric prince tried to trick them into giving up their secrets to make mirrak and his seekers more powerful just remember he is only refered as old enemy so that could mean, the gardener of men only wanted to make mirrak stronger and help any he could, he tried to save the player by telling them to leave, this is so it doesnt look weird this may point to Hermous Mora is NOT evil, he tries to help any who help him still don't believe me? well, dont blame you. When he kills Mirrak he is angry but gifts the player after that and even allows the player, who is more of a threat, to leave So he isn't evil,what did we learn? Not part of theory: Tell me your opnion on if he is evil or not i would like to hear it
Cthulhu The Librarian! The Dragon Souls thing is explainable if you keep in mind that Dovah have +innate+ knowledge. Dovahkiin (First and Last being two examples) gain knowledge by absorbing the souls of defeated Dovah (or in the LDB's case being gifted the hard-won experience directly from an attuned Greybeard) because +they have the soul of a Dovah+. Even the Greybeards have to meditate for decades to use a Thu'um (Shout). Dovahkiin just read the Word, absorb then use a Dovah Soul to gain in minutes what Ulfric Stormcloak took over 20 years of practice to gain. Mora +cannot+ do that. They simply do not have the ability to learn Shouts like +any mortal can+. They can read the Words and yell them all they want but they can't +experience+ the Word, which is needed to use Thu'um. So they need a Dovahkiin on the staff who can collect and "translate* the inherent knowledge that can't be written down. Like someone collecting sheet music hiring a musician to play it for them because they themselves have no fingers to play an instrument with.
it's strange how mora getting dragon souls seems so terrifying until you realize he's just gonna use it for more knowledge. He doesn't have any goals of ruling Mundus or destroying Aurbis, he just wants to know things. He'll do terrible things for knowledge, but hey he just wants to know stuff
Playing through yet another Skyrim story and I decided to full complete the Dragonborn DLC for the first time. You know actually hang out in Solstheim instead of beat Mirrak and never return. Anyway, one of the powers from the Black Books granted me a passive buff to unrelenting force, giving a slight chance that a target may be torn apart. It got me thinking, what are the chances that the Thalmor with the help of hermaeus mora are how Ulfric's Thum was so powerful as to rip Torygg apart?
The Thalmor are more than likely Daedra-phobic. They're Altmer nationalists, and the Altmer don't exactly have a rosy view of Daedra. The Thu'um is also nerfed in gameplay. Full power Unrelenting Shout shreds buildings in lore.
@@LordMortanius that's something I didn't know as far as the difference between lore and gameplay. Also, would make sense to dull it down for gameplay otherwise you'd have people that 'what if'd shredding every building in Skyrim 🤣 need to get the black book power again and save spam until I dissolve nazeem, my life's work will be complete then.
I have a theory about why Herma Mora doesn't like Vaermina. You know how you sometimes wake up from dreams and can't remember them? What if the reason for this in the Elder Scrolls is because Vaermina is plotting something. Or maybe Herma Mora thinks she is. We know Herma Mora can't stand not knowing something, no matter how obscure or pointless. And not knowing something about a fellow daedric prince can spell doom for him. If Vaermina is doing something in dreams that Herma Mora should be concerned about, he'd never know. Because the mortals whose dreams she uses for this will forget by the time ge gets his tentacles on them. And if it's not in their memories, he'd have nothing. Perhaps Vaermina is doing something that could pose a threat to Herma Mora, or maybe he's paranoid and obsessed
My fav daedra. Yeknow he doesn't really fit into the category of the Eldritch, even though that's what he's inspired by. Because he's known and, to some degree, understood by mortals. But still the coolest.
I do wanna expand on your forest and knowledge connections. It's extremely common to equate the universe and all it's knowledge to that of a deep dark woods, and there's even sayings like "to plant the seeds of knowledge/doubt," there's also references where they compare the unknown and knowable not only to a forest but also the ocean, that is infinite in size and depth. And they often call knowledge that humans attain as islands, little spots in these oceans where you can stand and understand, but still can't see across the ocean or the depths. I think there's a huge reason and connection to reallife analogies in how they chose to represent and mythologize Herma Mora
From what I understand, Michael Kirkbride is a self proclaimed Thelemic Gnostic; and while I probably don't know nearly as much about TES lore as I do about Thelema, Gnosticism, and Hermeticism, I can definitely say this: It cannot be understated enough how important of a figure Hermes is in all three of those religions, along with Alchemy (which we all know is the secret to infinite power in many TES games.) If Hermaeus Mora is based on Hermes Trismegistis, then he is actually the Monad, or the universal mind of creation. Think of a seed planted in Mundus, that grows into a tree of life so powerful and massive that it bends back on time itself create its own existence, and that is the mind of Hermes Trismegistis. He knows all truths, all untruths, all potentialities and every impossibility at all times and with perfect vividness. His mind is the primordial waters in which he grows, his roots are guarded by a three spiders that spin their webs with the fate of all existence, and those spiders are him. In Hermeticism, Hermes is believed to be the Aeon, a being that exists as the catalyst for all interactions, as he is the scribe and messenger of all things. He literally embodied the passing of the mantle from Uranus, to Cronus, to Zeus, as well as any potential successors. According the the Kybylion, this belief is said to originate from his connection to the Egyptian Thoth, who was also the god of scribes and alchemy. They believed that the mind of Thoth contained a chemical formula so potent that it produced the light of Ra's solar disk, which took the form of three protector goddesses and the all seeing Eye of Ra that resided over all of creation. In Thelema, He is Babylon and Akasha, Shiva and Parvati, Indra and the Veil of Maya. He is Saturn, The Green Man, The Beast, The Baphomet, Lord and Guardian of the Threshold and the blind wanderer of all liminal space. He is Sophia and Yaldabaoth, the polymorphous god Abraxas, and the Barbelo the unknowable Father Goddess. Within his mind, all things are unified, nothing is omitted, all ideas are roles to play, all boundaries are an illusion to be broken. Anyway, IMO, that's probably the forbidden knowledge that Hermaeus Mora holds, as well as the reason for Kirkbride leaving Bethesda and writing C0DA. Shit gets pretty unhinged when you get to the Thelemic side of things.
Afaik no belief holds that Hermes is literally God, like you are describing. Hermeticism says he is the greatest mind to have ever lived, but still just a man, not God.
Dragonborn just want's to know the answer to one question: Hermes Trismegistis, how to kill it ? Then the Dragonborn can absorb it's soul and take All the loots. :-)
Consider this: the books aren't his library. The books are the lure that draws in the minds of men and mer, seekers of knowledge, but the true library is the inky black ocean that lies underneath. If we look at his appearance and at the tendrils specifically that he summons and uses they look like they're made of ink, perhaps constructed from all the knowledge he's stolen over the millennia. If that is indeed the case, then the true danger is getting grabbed and drawn down into those depths, never to re-emerge again. One's mind and memories become part of the library, drawn in by the promise of forbidden knowledge. Of course, that's all just speculation.
Thats a really smart interpretation
Makes even more sense when you consider how books of lore and knowledge are made - penned in ink.
The idea of a boundless sea of ink, the conglomerate of all knowledge obtained by Herma Mora, and Mora itself drawing upon that same ink to give itself form - literally incorporating itself from tangible knowledge collected across eons - is awesome. In a way being like the Elder Scrolls version of the River Styx, only instead of a vast watery mass composed of souls it's made of pure knowledge and information...and you can get yourself lost and overwhelmed in that much knowledge just as easily were you to fall in.
Water is memory and therefore information in TES. It is also suggested that his realm is under the ocean somewhere. Good theory.
Hm is the most obviously Lovecraft influenced creature in TES. In most of Lovecraft's works, the boons granted usually lead to insanity or dire consequences. Mora has serious cthulu vibes.
I dig this interpretation!
This is definitely my favorite Daedric Prince in Elder Scrolls. He gives you so much useful knowledge, only demanding few sacrifices. This guy definitely know what happened to Dwemer.
A few sacrifices?
A few sacrifices? I mean, your mental stability is a pretty large sacrifice.
Most Daedric Prince's come with an underlying "fine print", so you've gotta be careful. If he wants more from you, he's gonna get it through master temptation/manipulation.
All depends on what you're looking for.
The secret behind Dwemer's disappearance is no secret at all. It's related to Morrowind look it up.
@@FaLaN69 It is a secret. Nobody knows for sure what happened. There is a lot of speculation. I myself subscribe to the theory that they zero-summed after the Numidium activated, but there isn't enough evidence to confirm nor deny that theory.
@@FaLaN69 Yes and no. We know why they disappeared, most of the community agrees on that. But the true secret is what happened to them/where they went.
I think Hermeaus Mora's need for a dragon born to collect and harvest dragon souls is more in line with the established lore of the dragons and how they share knowledge. Their souls.
When a dragon is killed there is no body to decompose, just bone. And when Alduin resurrects dragons so too do their memories return. Since Hermeaus Mora cannot access this dragon souls and memories passively as he normally does with other races, thus the use of the dragon born.
For Hermeaus Mora it's like getting access to the forbidden part of a library. And knowledge of Akatosh, since the dragons are born timeless and of himself.
Kind messed up in a way. "I (Hermeaus Mora) will use your (Akatosh) creation to slay your spawn to gain knowledge of you."
Honestly I could see this happening. The interactions and maneuvering between daedra princes is always interesting
From dragons only bones remain, all soft tissue is transferred by the soul to the dragonborn. So what's left is like a dried out husk... All water of the dragon's organism (all memories) go to someone else
@@witoldendrju2458
it's too bad you can't get more knowledge per dragon, like the example if that dragon you just killed knew more shouts, that would reflect on the player and once it's soul is absorbed, you have access to that dragons' knowledge of the shouts that it mostly used.
Yep, it's a collection of the secrets that Time itself holds
@@5226-p1e i assume thats how it works in lore, gameplay reasons it cant happen unless there's a mod out there
In Doctor Who, there is an entire planet that's a library. In the episodes, they refer to this library as "a great big forest" because the books are made from wood. Perhaps Herma Mora is the woodland man because his woods are the library of Apocrapha
Dona Nobles has left the library. Dona Nobles has been saved.
Pages of books are also sometimes called "leaves"
....... Huh
Neat.
So many books, Hermaeus Mora really needs some flash drives to store them All organized and indexed, and kept on his desk. :-)
river song is a top 5 character in New who
21:06 I just realized why it took so long for Hermeaus to take the skaals knowledge because they keep entombing their bodies in stahlrim which is literally divine ice 🧐
Great tie in, but also I believe that the Divine Ice is only part of the reason. I think we need more texts available on the subject in the tombs found on Solstheim that would shed light on this.
I can’t remember whether or not this is the case, but I think another reason is because the Skaal follow a tradition somewhat based off of Native American practices. They don’t write down their lore and history, instead only orally telling it from one shaman to the next. They don’t keep records, instead passing their history on through the years by storytelling and folklore. Herma Mora can’t take their knowledge because it’s only told behind closed doors, never bound to a page.
It’s an interesting analogy that Vivek uses for being a god. It almost sounds exactly like playing a video game, while playing u are “awake” within that worlds time but u are still awake within the real world (in which u are very busy). When u die or log off, it doesn’t matter how long u wait in the real world cause time will not have moved in the game when u log in or awaken
Chim is something akin to the awareness that one is in an Elder Scrolls video game, so that certainly tracks
This is deliberate. Some of the descriptions of CHIM abilities amount to things like "save and reload", "open the console" and "look it up on the wiki"
I can't help but feel like there is a connection between his name translating to forest/wood and one of his nicknames being "The Gardener of Man"
“Hermaeus Mora learns fascinating new ways to skin a Horker and you become the second most powerful Dragonborn to ever live.”
-Master Neloth
Those Horkers are no joke man what can i say
One day Neloth will need to skin a horker. Then who's laughing?
@@rustyjones7908 _chess club vibes_
I always wonder who he’s refereing to when he says second. Is it tiber septim?
@@Philip7710miraak i would think
Mora has a lot of references to HP Lovecraft stories. The Wood Man is a reference to Shug Niggurath of the Wood and its 1000 young. Mora's 'young' are his servants in Apocrypha The underwater sense of Apocrypha is R'leyth which is Cthullu's home. People that get fully ensnared by Mora are transformed into the tentacle face monsters. In HP's novels it is the hope of the Cult of Cthullu to be transformed into bodies that can't die. The Lurkers are the Deep Ones who hope for Cthullu to once again awaken. The book with Elf Skin and Black Books is clearly a parallel to the Necronomicon.
And he is an ur-dra. One of the eldest daedra. In other words, an old one
@@CarpeNoctem135 though the outer gods are the actual oldest. Old ones are ironically fairly young
Obvious allegory is obvious
shug niggurath 🤨
@@germxiii9779you should look up HP Lovecraft’s cats name
This was my favorite Skyrim DLC. Lovecraftian af. So cool that Herma plays on the Lovecraft quote, “The oldest and most primal fear is the fear of the unknown.”
Can't wait for this guy to be the end of csm
I felt the Lovecraftian influence. Really loved it. To augment your quote, I'll quote a famous Iron Maiden song:"Fear of the dark, fear of the dark, i have a constant fear that someone's always there."
I wish there was more than just this Skyrim DLC about Lovecraft! We all know we want Oblivion gates to come back!⛩️
@@EduardoLara-r6j In the anniversary addition there is a quest added that involves oblivion
Lovecraft got it wrong.
The oldest fear was that time a caveman watched his buddy get eaten by a wild animal.
The second oldest fear is the fear of the unknown. Then probably the dark. Then what was in the dark.
In exactly that order.
@@Atmatan I get that👍
Herma Mora is probably my absolute favorite deity in the Elder Scrolls Universe. I love the idea of his whole existence being based around the acquisition of forbidden knowledge. Just thinking of all the things he knows about everyone and everything throughout history.
I think another aspect in the rivalry between Hermaeus Mora and Vaermina is that they both collect memories and could be fighting over who gets to keep them.
akatosh said it's my turn with mortal minds
The idea that the memories of departed souls reside within the waters of the mortal plane (a strange parallel to how Daedra, when their forms are destroyed, are cast upon the waters of Oblivion until they can reform) has aaaaaaaaall sorts of interesting implications. When you drink water, you are refreshing yourself with the echoes of lives past. When you cry, you release some small part of a moment that is too great for your soul to fully contain. And Skyrim, land of ice and snow, is also the land of frozen echoes of the past... home, also, to snow from the Throat of the World which never melts -- memories forever sealed away.
Poetic, but it goes to show just how much room to play there is with this tidbit of lore.
Then you factor in that nirn root grows near water. Imagine the implications of that.
It's a bit of a ripoff from frozen 2 plot though.
@@elirantuil5003 Wait, they made a sequel to that nauseating movie?
@@ShadowMage Then think about the mushrooms in Blackreach and red nirnroot. Also, didn't Falmer drink from the underground mushrooms? So, did consuming some unbearable memories change the Falmer? Another thing. Think about the entire continent of Lyg, or Yokuda. Even Black Marsh itself is just a province filled with still water, and remnants of old empires forgotten by choice by the Argonians.
@@ShadowMage -- Damn, you're right! Hmm...
Another interesting thing regarding Herma Mora and Ysgramor is the theory that Ysgramor was a dragon. While this is unlikely due to seeing him in Sovngarde, I find it more likely the Ysgramor was the first true Dragonborn, he himself ignorant of that fact.
It would explain Herma Moras obsession with Ysgramor, and in failing to acquire him, setting his eyes and tentacles on Miraak next
It'd be really funny since we'd have 3 "first dragonborns" with Alessia, Miraak and Ysgramor and by that alone I think this theory is valid
@@rauls.g.2518that’s completely consistent with irl famous people. Everyone, especially powerful people like rulers, are the first something. It’s like how everyone claimed to be the successor to Rome
I always considered the Mora part referring to forests was how books are made and pages being considered leaves. Books and knowledge are often associated with deities of wood and forests. The Celtic god Ogham which the Oghma Infinium shares etymology with is such a deity.
Hermaeus Mora (IMO) existed before Akatosh, before time, thus he experienced the universe before things have been put in chronological order and that is why he is the daedric prince of fate. He knows all possible outcomes, but not which one will come to pass. Also, it would make sense if he was created from the throwaway ideas from when the "gods" were created, not mortality.
Nice theory, the established consensus is that Akatosh actualized himself, then the other Gods/Spirits started to become who they are, that is why he is the primordial spirit of time.
I’ve only just started playing Skyrim, but Hermaeus Mora instantly became my favorite Daedric Prince
Hircine is mine
My idea for the brain jars. It's when someone realizes they did not in fact want the forbidden knowledge they learned and asks hermaeus to "take it away"
"poor choice of words."
Wait... I just noticed something at 20:34 : "Hermaeus Mora taught her how to sever her ties to Oblivion and bind herself to Mundus." This sounds very much to me like what Lorkhan did. Binding himself to Mundus, although on a much larger scale in his case. The "sever one's ties to Oblivion" part sounds even more like Lorkhan if you believe Mankar Camoran's claim that Lorkhan is, or was, a Daedra.
So, could Hermaeus Mora be somehow related to Lorkhan ? Perhaps Septimus Signus had good reasons to think he would find the Heart of Lorkhan inside that Dwemer vault.
Theory about the forest association: Memories are stored in the water and knowledge on paper. A tree has its roots steeped in memory and it's branches etched with knowledge. A forest is a reservoir of memories and a future treasure trove of knowledge yadda yadda.
Apocrypha also having flying scrolls above, like leaves in the wind, and being rooted in the inky water below is also very tree-like.
Scam
I just got my boyfriend into TES and have recommended every single one of your videos for him to watch, but I will DEFINITELY put this one on the top of the list for him, he is such a knowledge buff and so incredibly booksmart, even though he only has around 10 hours of gameplay, I already know that Hermeaus More will be his favorite Daedra!
Let him play the games first 😳 the videos are pure spoilers.
@@martinroner5688 he already knows most of the gameplay things because he´s watched me play and has played a bit in the past aswell, just never enough to really get into the game so it´ll be fine, but thanks!
If you two get isekaied into the Elder Scrolls universe, keep him away from the black books😂
He doesn't understand himself and that's why he collects all the knowledge that exists
Is hermana mora an emo boy who just doesn’t understand himself?
The same reason people become Redditors
I always took morag tongs "forester guild" meaning to be the dunmers own variation of the term. If you think about it, the morag tong helps to serve the peace within resdayn, cleaning out the country through legal writs. From their perspective, it's their own way of having sheriffs. Just my thoughts
I had the oghma infinitum in my inventory when I entered apocrypha for the first time, and master mora's greeting was downright warm.
A big question that comes to mind every time your videos talk about dragons is *why* they or by extension dragonborns so often become corrupted by the pursuit of power. Paarthurnax himself said it was deeply ingrained in a dragon's nature to dominate others. Even their combat is a literal form of debate where they are essentially imposing their will over others. It really makes you wonder. Is it just Akatosh's innate desire to create order, or is this somehow tied into Mo-lag Bal? Either way I'm curious.
sounds like the idea behind dogs being the Alpha dog. every dog engages in this idea, but at the end only one will dominate over all.
translate this to dragons, and every dragon assumes their dominance over lower beings, which is probably why there is a need for a dragonborn to assume as much knowledge and power for themselves as much as possible to win that battle, but there is also mention that Alduin will eventually come back at some point in unknown future.
maybe Hermaus Mora wants Alduin for himself. it's weird thinking about this, because it sort of ties into another theory i have had about the literal Oblivion gate that leads to sovengard within Skaldofin, like how did that gate get there?
i can assume that the ancient Nords were guided by one of the deadra and they built it for Alduin to go to sovengard, but not much else i can say about this idea since no other location within any of the dragon priest temples has anything like this within their temples or ruins.
@@5226-p1e
Tbh I think that portal wasn't just for Alduin but all Nords to perhaps go and visit to gain knowledge from their kin.
Pretty sure ESO is where that idea comes from
@@thalmoragent9344
ESO's creation came after skyrim was made.
meaning ESO's story didn't exist until it was created, but i think i know what you mean, because ESO essentially created their own fiction based on the lore of the entire series, i personally think of ESO as an alternate reality within the elder scrolls universe, as according to the lore of the series says that many things happened during the dragonbreak of the past that caused multiple alternate history's within other realities to happen simultaneously at once, and ESO is just one of these alternate realities, where a lot about the factions is the same, but many circumstances are different in how they played out.
in ESO the races all around tamreal are united, but in the main reality universe, everyone is still not as united, but i suspect they did this in ESO because it was an MMO and because they wanted to write a unified story that involved all of tamreal against molag bal.
you see in the lore of skyrim, it follows the lore of the rest of the series in the single player games, where ESO essentially rewrites that already known history and bends it into something else that didn't happen in the lore within the universe that elder scrolls skyrim exists within or the main reality that most of the series goes off of.
but something interesting within ESO's lore helps fill in the gaps of history within the main reality of the series, i mean in ESO you get to learn a little bit more about some mysterious characters such as Shalidor, in skyrim game he was a brutal man with a mysterious past into how he became so powerful, but in ESO you get to learn a little bit more about him from another perspective.
but the bigger story's within ESO like molag ball coming to tamreal didn't happen in the main universe, but mehrunes dagon invasion did happen.
Scam
@@5226-p1e I think you've gone too far mate.
In ESO, the Races very much aren't all united, there are three factions at _war_ with each other for claiming Cyrodill, and the lore in ESO has been more or less brought into compliance with the mainline series (We'll know for sure when TES6 comes out).
And the issue of your thought is that _ALL_ timelines are brought back together at the end of a Dragon Break, so there aren't any alternate universes.
I would also like to note that dragons are not mortal, so there is the possibility that their memories and knowledge are not deposited into the waters, but held with them in the meta-physical streams of time, somewhat inaccessible to Herma Mora, and so requires that unique ability of the dragonborn to be able to absorb them, and their knowledge, something that they canonically do as said in game, to then get these souls, and thus their knowledge and memories.
Also, just a random thought, the dragonborn is like a hyper specific, ultra soul gem.
33:35 I’ve never heard Hermaeus-Mora’s voice before.
I… I was not expecting that.
The Miraak/Alessia "first dragonborn" problem actually has another solution that doesn't involve wacky time travel.
Obviously, Miraak's existence was a retcon by Bethesda because they don't care about existing lore, but when pressed about it, Pete Hines gave an answer that basically said Miraak and Alessia had different kinds of "dragonborn" powers.
Extrapolating from that, Hines's answer is implying there are different kinds of dragonborns.
Miraak and the Last Dragonborn are one kind -- I call them "dovahkiin" or "dragon slayer" dragonborns as their power is the ability to absorb the souls of slain dragons -- and the various dragonborn emperors and empresses are a different kind, what I call "Aka" dragonborns, as their power was to light the Dragonfires.
Scam
I think this is not even a bad retcon and I always thought it was like that. The two types was created by Akatosh, which is the dragon god, dragonborn is like saying that someone is a child of Akatosh, everything related to Akatosh uses dragon terms, like Dragon Breaks, for example.
Since the TES deep lore Is full of stuff like this, I prefer the retcon the guys presented in this video.
Bethesda, however, is as malicious as the Thalmor. They inherited a great creation and with each passing entry -save perhaps modern ESO- they unravel creation ever more.
I'm sure by TES VI, there will be no more reconcilliation, no More Dragon Breaks or alternate explanations that fans can come up with to justify the butchering of setting and Lore.
Or it could have simply been that Miraak's existence was lost from recorded history.
@@thewonderfullymadejaraid7015 That's the easiest explanation there is, and pretty sound characterization for Hermaus Mora to erase Miraak from history to the best of his ability. He wants to hoard him like a piece of information, obviously.
I hope we get a game that focuses on Vaermina as the main daedra to get emphasis, I would love to know more about the Prince of Dreams relationship to the dreaming Godhead
Very likely TES6 will touch on that, since there's only one tower left, and we see it in the trailer...
Vaermina commands it.
Okay, this just blew my mind. I've always thought the book shelves in Apocrypha were a bit underwhelming, considering they're supposed to hold the secrets of the universe. But knowing that the real library is not the books, but the vast, endless inky sea is awesome. Plus, even with the Black Books, the actual book part is normal, the special thing is the swirling magic ink.
My absolute favorite prince out of all of them. I still remember the first time I played through Skyrim before the DLC came out, and he appeared as just a big blue orb at the cave entrance. Then playing the game again after the DLC came out and being so astonished by how much they changed his appearance for that same interaction. As soon as I saw that, I knew this storyline was going to be incredible. I've always been interested in hermetecism, and the problematic HP Lovecraft, so to see the merging of these two themes in a single questline was so fun. (Not sure of the same two themes have been conjuntively explored in other games like it was here, since Skyrim is the only ES game I've played 😅🤷)
Attention this comment above me is a scam
Hermeaus Mora being so tied to the concept of forests makes a ton of sense in hindsight I suppose.
Forest/Tree of Knowledge = a Library/Book.
_I last received a whisper from him six months ago. Before then, it had been five years, and three before that. His thoughts are no longer intelligible in any language. Perhaps he is still in Apocrypha, lost but happy, in a trap he refuses to escape. Perhaps he slipped between the stacks and passed into the Madhouse of Sheogorath, losing his sanity forever._
_I would save him if I could._
*_I would silence his whispers if I could._*
Nice to see I'm not the only one who noticed the parallels with Hermes and the hermetic school. Digging a bit deeper Hermes (aka. Hermes the thrice born) is also associated with and thought to be the same person by some of thoth the Egyptian God scribe of knowledge and all things mystical and occult in nature.
I can imagine Jyggalag going to Hermaeus Mora's realm and them arguing about organization of the books.
Regarding Fragmentae Abyssum Hermaeus Morus, I wonder about the analogy at work. Hare are prey animals - actually, they're the ARCHETYPAL prey animals, while foxes obviously have associations with predators, cunning, and ironically being tricksters. It is interesting to me that the archetypal prey animal tried to advise Ysgramor, while the archetypal trickster animal interceded. It should also be noted that both the hare and the fox gave the same answer to Ysgramor - the stag is in the vale. They were both technically correct and leading him to the same quarry. Given the relationship of Shor/Lorkhan with Aurbis, or rather the dichotomy of Anu and Padomay, it seems fitting that the hare, which perhaps represents Anuic ideals, is prey, while the fox, which represents Padomaic ideas, is predator, and that in true trickster fashion, we are misled into thinking that the fox is not the trickster, when in representing Shor it is the archetypal trickster of the monomyth, Lorkhan - and the trick is that the Shor told us nothing that we didn't already know from Herma-Mora. The stag awaits in the Vale.
This evokes Watership Down to me. Indeed, there's obvious thematic similarities, in the Watership Down creation myth the sun is a god who created the creatures, and the hares were multiplying and outnumbering everyone so the sun gave all of the other animals unique qualities to make them predators to the hare. When it came time to bless the prince of hares and his people, the prince hid from the sun and tried to deceive it, and so the sun blessed the prince with speed and cunning to evade the predators, rather than the means to fight and overcome them. It's interesting to imagine that this is what Herma-Mora represents: in the war of metaphors that is Elder Scrolls, there is one who does not pit his metaphor against others, but instead thru cunning seeks to avoid the war altogether.
I love ol' Herma-mora. Just straight up Yogg-Sothtoh.
also my favorite line is related to Mora, "Sounds like a bargain to me. Hermaeus Mora learns some fascinating new ways to skin a horker and you become the second most powerful Dragonborn that ever lived."
FUDGEMUPPET: PLEASE do a video on All The Meme/Joke/Comedy Characters of The Elder Scrolls Series and it would be great if it was a podcast video.
The adoring fan: would like to know your location
@@lonelypancake5979 I live in The Imperial City.
Great video man, the cinematography alone is spectacular
Hermetic - "From Medieval Latin hermeticus, irregular derivation of Hermes Trismegistus, the god and mythological alchemist, said to possess a magic ability to seal treasure chests so that nothing could access their contents"
@@ryucartel351 The Kybalion was not written by Hermes lol, it was written in the late 19th century by some dude in America
So he’s just a really good locksmith
Isn't total Knowledge what Jyggylag had? Does that mean Jyggylag and Herma mora share similar spheres? If Jyggylag was a threat to all other daedric lords, was this one such way he threatened herma mora?
Jyggy's sphere is order. The other explanation for Jyggy is that his story about being the Numero-Uno is complete bunk and that Jyggy is just another aspect of Sheogorath's insanity instead of being a separate prince.
Jyggalag had total order. The princes were threatened since a perfectly ordered army is undefeatable, so they cursed him into the total opposite of everything he represents, complete madness
The dragon souls theory falls in line with my personal head canon. I always choose the "I'm not your servant" type dialog options and avoid using dragon souls to respec my skills. In my opinion you can't harbor "fantasies of rebellion against" a Daedric prince if you have the free will to resist their temptations.
That's what I found alittle scary about hermaous. You don't get a choice, to defeat Mirrak you have to help hermaous and we saw what happened to his last champion. You can choose to not serve afterwards but its impossible to beat Mirrak without the bend will shout
Well you sever mora anytime you develop a skill if I am getting my lore right it’s sort of that way with every daedric prince kill a dragur you support Meridia you get black out drunk you serve Sanguine or maybe I just have this all wrong
There is a lovely essay written about the "prisoner" concept of the elder scrolls games. Basically the Prisoner, capital P, aka the player characters are fateless and are the only "people" on nirn with true free will. You start all the games as a no one, no background, no name or identity just a "prisoner" you then break your metaphorical chains by playing the game as you the player, not a god, daedra or anyone elses, will dictates. Thus you are the only one to stand up to those who would break the natural order of the world by beating either litteral (dagoth ur) or figurative (miraak) "sharmats" or those who want to "replace"/believe they are the godhead and destroy the dream. Mora knows Miraak could never truly become a sharmat and never felt threatened by him cuz he never had the full picture of how the world works and thus could never truly a/decend. The last dragonborn however is 100% potential and could definitly be a threat to mora and everyone else in the universe, so to me it makes sense that mora would do ANYTHING he could to get his tentacles on their soul, both perhaps out of curiosity but mostly selfpreservation. Idk just something fun to speculate i can link the essay to anyone interested its an interesting read if anything.
@@ScarletRedCrimson
Which, if true, would make your victory over Mora in the mod _Here There Be Monsters: Call of Cthulhu_ all the sweeter.
@@Xbalanque84 Dont know that one, is it any good?
I feel like Mora is the repository of all things ejected from Sithis. Brought from the darkness by his brother sisters and hidden from Mortals in his libraries. Knowledge is often considered binding and perhaps hermaus Mora binds akatosh with The Forbidden Knowledge pulled from chaos and bound onto page and thus constricting the dragon God to travel one path with fate.
It would make sense that Mora would want to steal power from Akatosh, since he's essentially Akatosh's evil Daedric counterpart.
In the Nordic creation myth he's basically the Padomay to Akatosh's Anu
Delightful, hema mora is my favorite deadric prince.
Is there any relation between the skeleton key and hemaus moras realm. Both allowing you to access expertise that previously unobtainable
Yea?
Since Hermaeus Mora feeds on knowlege, the Dragonborn could kill it by erasing it's mind, and erasing all it's books... poof ! it's dead.
@@SeaJay_Oceans How can you erase peoples minds? And he is the scrapes left over from the creation of mundious. To kill him or wipe his memory would be to destroy an entire other existence
The Key is Nocturnal's artifact, not Mora's. The Key unlocks your potential, whereas Mora is all about using what you've learned.
@@LordMortanius Ik it is nocturnals artifact. I asked do you think there is a relation, it would be cool to think about how the potential is realized and how information plays a role in that. I was just wondering about the overlap
Nice to see mods I use in a video
Mirrak wasn't saved by Hermaous, he was kidnapped and added to his library. Once Mirrak had plans and was able to leave apocrypha, Hermaous didn't want to lose his knowledge being free so he killed Mirrak and replaced him with us. We aren't Hermaous Moras champion, we are his prisoner. Even if we can walk free unlike Mirrak, he is watching us constantly to see what we see and learn what we learn
I have been researching the hermetic principles and history and you really nailed a lot. This is very thought-provoking and I have to say in a weird way you have helped me with my research of real life history and furthered my interest in these games. Thank you.
Hermaeus Mora, Xarxes, and Juhnal walk into a room;
"Should we... divide by Zero"?
*Ends the Aurbis*
*Wakes the godhead
@@lazilycatharticone4191
Lmao, imagine 💀
Then either the Aurbis receives basically an earthquake at its foundations, or perhaps the Kalpa just resets without any major event to cause it like Alduin or Dagon. Then it's like;
Auri-El; "Xarxes... my dear Scribe... what in Anu's name have you done?"
Lorkhan; "Juhnal, bro... what did you do?"
The Daedric Princes; "Mora... for the love of these Padomaic waters, what were you even thinking?!"
Meanwhile, the Trio; "Well um... it's a new Dawn Era, you guys wanna maybe start off on the right foot, try everything out again?"
Auri-El; 🤔
Both: "Fine, deal"
Lorkhan; 🤨
All the other Et'Ada; "wait, you guys... actually gonna work together this time? Well dang, say less"
Xarxes, Mora and Juhnal;
*sweating in the background profusely*
"Thank the Godhead"
@@thalmoragent9344 Auriel to Lorkhan: "Bro's before hoes?"
Lorkhan: "From the streets she came"
Auriel: "To the streets she shall return"
Auriel & Lorkhan: "So I say unto you, she is for the streets. So be not worried, for she must return from whence she came"
Kyne and Mara: *Stares nervously into the void*
@@lazilycatharticone4191
Lmao facts 🤣
Funny too cause, if we go off some theories and the like, some interpretation says Mara left Auriel for some reason, and left to join Lorkhan, becoming his Concubine in Lorkhan's Atmoran Pantheon where hes called Shor, and then it's said Morahaus is Kyne and Hircine's son (a beast who has master of the Thu'um and all that other stuff), so after Lorkhan died Kyne just went on to the next dude.
If these are both actually what happened (assuming we toss the myths together and take their titles as literal) then yeah, they both have reason for the "Bro's before Hoes" thing 😅
Do I believe them, well, the Morahaus one I think actually does have some credence to it. As for Mara leaving Auriel, for whatever reason, I'm not sure. Mara's typically the time Gods wife so for her to be involved with Lorkhan with the Nordic Pantheon says a lot.
I consider myself well versed in the lore and then I see this and now I'm officially a failure (I didn't get it)
Mainly because I know very little about Xarxes and Juhnal.
Mora likely wishes to have the souls of dragons to gain their knowledge and understanding of the Thu'um and the meaning of it's words, such as how Paarthurnax mentions that dragons have a deeper understanding of yol than mortals of fire, or mortals of fade than dragons of feim
And perhaps the way he "refunds your perks" is by using the soul of the dragon, AKA fragment Alduin/Akatosh, to turn back time only for the Last DB
i'm not sure, because he also has created shout walls of his own creation of shouts that didn't exist, or maybe they were lost to the ages and he just absorbed them and revived them.
i mean Miraak had a shout that was a 4 word shout that was meant to instantly rip a dragons soul and essentially kill it with one shout.
it's weird thinking about this, but it's my theory that he didn't have this ability back when he was fighting vehaloc the dragon priest.
he might have had the bend will shout, but i think this 4 word shout came later, meaning he thought he could take on the dragons as a full force as he was overconfident in his ability's, and it wasn't that vehaloc almost defeated him, he had help of an army of dragons fighting with him, throwing everything they had to take Miraak down.
it was because Miraak became overwhelmed and got tired that he almost died as Hermaous Mora saved him and pulled him into Apocrypha.
@@5226-p1e I actually think he didn’t have either ability and it was either given by Mora or something he learned during his time which then mora could take and give the knowledge to the other DragonBorn
@Bauforum24_-__
Yeah I look at these scams most of the time, sorry mate but no thanks.
@@acat6145
Well according to the lore, Miraak had the capability to bend the will of the dragons before he was put with in apocrypha.
All of these shouts can be learned via through the Black Books, and hermaeus Mora from within his realm.
But I would believe you're correct on the other point of the other Shout, among many other things that he learned how to deal with in apocrypha.
I remember when I wanted to write that fanfiction, so I did as much research as possible into the actual lore of the game, I did get some of that fan fiction written down, but I never really did finish it.
I had this really cool alternate ending planned out that basically allowed Miraak to leave apocrypha and take over Skyrim and prevent the Civil War and turn them into his armies along with the dragons already within the landscape.
But never did finish the story, they had a great premise, but for whatever reason I felt as if it was always missing something, which caused me to go back and start writing a story again, I made many different variations, and in each variation I essentially wanted to start over the story.
It sucks to have OCD of Storytelling.
You’re out here making some fantastic content
Guys… he’s just a silly little guy.
I was playing skyrim and right outside of whiterun I see hermaeus mora spying on me, it's very far in the distance but you csn see his little green blob dissappear and reappear, totally freaked me out
Is it the beginning of the game? I totally wanna see that
You gotta wonder how many of the people who make into Apocrypha slip into the Shivering Isles.
All i can say for people who find the concepts in this and the molag bal video interesting, play the Vigilant, Glenmoril and Unslaad trilogy of mods! These mods are a Kirkbride wetdream of ideas refrences and philosophy and really nail how similar the elder scrolls series is thematically to the soulsborne games.
Vigilant: the "simplest" of the mod delves into the past, a lot of refrences to previous games and the corrupting influence of molag bal over the ages. The mods final act takes you to coldharbour and (SPOILERS) have molag bal groveling at your feet at the end and even having you feel a strange sort of sympathy for him. Much of what fudgemuppet said in their dedicated molag video holds true for this version, a bitter, abusive, abused god that lets his bitterness blind him to the fact that he is litterally a pawn to those around him. Lamai baelfag is a central player in strangely humanizing bal in a way as the situation is shown as being a deeply traulatizing experience, not just for the victim but also the ones around her and even her rapist who in this version wasnt bal himself but a vessel he took over(which turns out of have been a puppet of mora ontop of it all) aka her actual lover.
Glenmoril: Glenmoril deals with the present and is still unfinished but this one seems to be far more rooted in Skyrim and more what goes on in the background of said game. What seems to be a simple go here hunt this questline turns the attention to the dragonborn as a character as a very elaborate web is spun by mora all for one simple reason: he is terrified of being forgotten. Mora sets the plan in motion with the goal of having you stand in a nexus point in time/a culmination of dragonbreaks to reach CHIM so that he can do it through you and hopefully escape once the end of this kalpa comes. You can choose to burn it all down, let mora escape or create something new which brings us to-
Unslaad: The end of the trilogy and arguably the story of the dragonborn (i always finish my playthrough with this). It shows the abject horror it is to be the last dragonborn and that the end of the kalpa is enevitable, Prisoner or not. Unslaad is about the dragonborn reaching AMARANTH and creating a new place where the old can end and new begin, it is AN ending of Glenmoril. But most importantly it shows killing alduin had consequenses that the eternal extention of this kalpa has consequenses for everyone and especially the last dragonborn. Its a bitter sweet ending to a long journey and personally these three mods always spell the end of a playthrough for me as they are so narrativly perfect to the backdrop skyrim provides.
To tie into the Woodland Man thing: The Celts have a forest God, Herne or Cernnunos. I would love to investigate further on Hermaeus Mora's ties to Azura, particularly into how it links to Khajiit lore.
you know a man did his homework when he starts referencing Hermetics
I mean all I'm really hearing from this is that Herma be the nerd of the group. Dagon: So should we invite herma to the party? The rest: NO! Are you nuts he's just gonna talk about books an ask people if they know anything about Skall weaving techniques! Molag Bal: Yeah dude that incel ain't even funny when he's drunk and he doesn't even drink that much. Mephala: Yeah total vibe killer! Lets not tell him about Saturday.
Meanwhile, Herma's like: I feel like there's yet even more information being kept from meeeeee! :((((((
Another great video!
Mora is my favourite Daedric Prince.
Something I was surprised wasn't mentioned is that dragon souls contain all the knowledge of the dragon that owned them. This is why you use dragon souls to learn shouts. Arngeir explains this to the Dragonborn
I recommend any of you who are interested in this video, to play Vicns (pretty sure that's right) mod vigilant. It's underlining story is about this concept. It involves herma mora, jhunal AND dragonborns. The other mods he makes delve further into that underlining story. I will give links to the reddit posts where the translator explains the premise of the story and the back story involving hermaous mora.
Can’t find it on the nexus. Could you provide a link?
I think Ahzidal's obsession with knowledge making him go mad with it may have proven to be exactly what Hermaeus Mora was looking for, and Ahzidal wasn't even worshipping him. Guy learned from worship of Juhnal first, then Xarxes (he was so smart among the Clevermen of Saarthal that he went to the Snow Elves, and others, for their magics, making him the first human to truly master any Elven magics)
He left his own family for knowledge for quite some time, and probably regretted it a little since Saarthal would get yeeted before he returned, his family supposedly killed (well, the term "dead or gone" was used, maybe they were taken prisoner) Interestingly, he went to the Snow Elves for even more knowledge, after the Night of Tears, likely meaning the Snow Elves didn't kill or want all Nords/Nedes in Skyrim dead, only Saarthal, and were even willing to teach him more since its not every day that Elven Wizard's meet a human with 200 IQ for magic.
Then Ysgramor comes back and boom, uses him as a Mage to help thwart and kill the Snow Elves, that Ahzidal would now betray for (supposedly) murderering his family. Be careful who you teach, otherwise you sadly get the Snow Elf treatment 😥
Hermaeus Mora, Hermes of the Forrest, Hermes of the world tree, the all seeing eye in Mimir's well, Hermes of the Moirai, the web of Mephala is the root-branches of the Tree - eye, the bind of world-strings, the 9th of Her 8, Hermes Mortal, Hermes of Death
2:42 Fudgemuppet: "Ur means primitive."
Dagoth Ur: "What a grand and intoxicating innocence!"
In old times, the woods were full of unknown danger and secrets. Now? It's the ocean. Soon? The void of space. Hermaeus Mora assumes the form that matches what is the source of the unknown both to strike fear in mortals and to entice the foolish wise ones.
it's interesting that Shor takes the form of a fox. are foxes seen as servants of Shor?
in the atmoran totem-religion that is the original faith of the nords, shor's totem is that of the fox
To add to this, it lines up with foxes being seen as crafty, since to the elves Shor (Lorkhan) was a trickster
You should do a video on Dyus of Mytheria
This was a great video and I'd love to see a series like this!
Have been thinking alot lately about a "daedric prince of the sea" and the more I think about it, Hermaeus Mora feels like the perfect fit as lord of the unknown, abyss and hidden lore.
More of this! Thank you!
Surprised you haven't made a video dedicated to speculating the true Ur-dra yet (at least as far as I can find)
The concept of gods and time in the Elder Scrolls universe makes me think of us when we play videogames.
From our character's perspective, a few month's worth of adventure might just be an all-nigther for us. In-game time means nothing to us because we can nullify or revert progress in the blink of an eye, even restart the campaign whenever we so desire. And those of us who have already completed the game knows what will happen, whereas our character remains in happy ignorance, trapped in a cycle that only we are intimately aware of. From the character's perspective, we (the player) live both in the past and future.
The thing with videogames is that they are still very limited in the sense you can only do things within the confines set by the developers. Imagine a sufficiently advanced and complex game where you can alter the campaign each time you play, with an AI that keeps adapting to your choices. That's what I think Hermaeus Mora tries to do; to alter the fabric of universe by messing with time and fate. He can anticipate the future because chances are he already witnessed it all, but as with before, time-wise, he is both in the past, present and future. Just like us.
Subsequently, every character we play is both their own individual and a part of us. The "chosen one" of every cycle is really just a puppet for a "divine being" to control experience that universe through them. Truth be told, there can be a repeated pattern here; world inside of a world, inside of a world. If the Elder Scrolls had been made with the technology from, say, 50 years into the future - would it be akin to a parallel universe? If our characters gained some form of self-awareness and sentience beyond our control, would it still be ethical to "control" them? Or are we akin to their souls, where without us they are no different from ordinary NPCs in auto-mode?
And what does that say of ourselves and our world IRL? Are we in a simulation too? And how far does that rabbit hole go?
I think the main reason Vaermina is an enemy of Hermaeous Mora is because not only does she deal in fiction, but she also steals memories and replaces them with nightmares. Herma Mora wants memories to gain knowledge, so she is actively stealing what he wants once humans die, and replacing it with fictions. We learn this during the waking nightmares questline
I'm Herma Mora, and I approve this message
Another interesting theory could be that Hermeus Mora is infact two daedra sharing a single portfolio. Herma/Hermeus and Mora being two entities under a single title much akin to the relationship between Akatosh and Auriel, especially considering its portfolio includes being a trickster God. This would help explain how distinct ut is to have relations with both land and sea, the woodlands and depths both are associated with the deeper you go the darker it gets.
🎶Who lives in a library under the sea?🎶
I never noticed that Miraak has slight scoliosis in his hip. His right side is a tad bit higher than the left. I would know, mine does the same.
Excellent video. I think about the parallel of Herma-Mora being a trickster to the Nords, while Shor/Lorkhan is a trickster to the Altmer.
Mora attempted to trick the Ysgramor, and in whole the nords, into becoming elves. Shor/Lorkhan tricked the Elnophey into becoming mortal.
I don’t think there’s any connection there but it’s an interesting idea I haven’t seen shared.
Sounds to me like the Nords had a great deal
*smirks in Altmer
Knowing how Akatosh bestows the title of "Dragon Born" doesn't mean he has the capacity to do so himself. He knows the ins and outs of everything, there is no topic to taboo or unknown to allude him but just because he understands what why when where and how there are plenty of things he is incapable of doing. He seeks those with Dragon blood because they posses abilities and talents that he CAN NOT do himself.
He is like a puppeteer, he knows more about the dragon born then any of them could hope to find out themselves yet cant become one. He understands how thumms work and how knowledge can be gained from their souls, but he cant absorb them himself. What he can do however, is scope out those given the power LONG before they ever actually receive it (maybe even before Akatosh himself has made the choice) He knows everything they've ever done and all they'll ever do. Every burning desire and every hopeful dream, and he knows exactly what it would take for them to willingly give themselves up and bend to his will.
So ready for Arcanist in ESO!
Akatosh: My creation, the dragonborn!!
HM: Cool, I'll take 2!
I think the fate of the Dragonborn heavily depends on who they are as an individual. If the Dragonborn is a Telvanni Wizard with a somewhat agreeable attitude, I feel like they’d be very comfortable doing whatever Mora wanted for more knowledge. Also there is no way they lack the ego for CHIM because ya know Telvanni Wizard 😂
Well colour me a Telvanni necromancer. Happy to serve m'wiggly Lord for magick knowledge honestly.
Started a new playthrough a few weeks ago and my Nord character just got to Solstheim. Perfect timing for this video my guy
An interesting fact I'll add from the possible real world inspiration for the name, the name Ogma is the name of the Celtic God of Knowledge. Just figured I'd share that :)
Ogma nuts lmao
Theory:
During the DB dlc hermeus mora wanted the secrets of the skaal as said during the garderner of men quest
When you do go to the village and offer it they say that the deadric prince is the "long enemy" and even mora says "finally the secrets of the skaal are mine!"back to the theory: the prince may have been wanting to get the skaals secrets because while his realm has the secrets of the past present and future, yk what the point is. The skaal may have been as old as the creation of the world.
The deadric prince tried to trick them into giving up their secrets to make mirrak and his seekers more powerful just remember he is only refered as old enemy so that could mean, the gardener of men only wanted to make mirrak stronger and help any he could, he tried to save the player by telling them to leave,
this is so it doesnt look weird this may point to
Hermous Mora is NOT evil, he tries to help any who help him
still don't believe me? well, dont blame you.
When he kills Mirrak he is angry but gifts the player after that and even allows the player, who is more of a threat, to leave
So he isn't evil,what did we learn?
Not part of theory:
Tell me your opnion on if he is evil or not i would like to hear it
He's so clearly meant to be 4th dimensional
Cthulhu The Librarian!
The Dragon Souls thing is explainable if you keep in mind that Dovah have +innate+ knowledge. Dovahkiin (First and Last being two examples) gain knowledge by absorbing the souls of defeated Dovah (or in the LDB's case being gifted the hard-won experience directly from an attuned Greybeard) because +they have the soul of a Dovah+. Even the Greybeards have to meditate for decades to use a Thu'um (Shout). Dovahkiin just read the Word, absorb then use a Dovah Soul to gain in minutes what Ulfric Stormcloak took over 20 years of practice to gain.
Mora +cannot+ do that. They simply do not have the ability to learn Shouts like +any mortal can+. They can read the Words and yell them all they want but they can't +experience+ the Word, which is needed to use Thu'um.
So they need a Dovahkiin on the staff who can collect and "translate* the inherent knowledge that can't be written down. Like someone collecting sheet music hiring a musician to play it for them because they themselves have no fingers to play an instrument with.
Beautiful description
it's strange how mora getting dragon souls seems so terrifying until you realize he's just gonna use it for more knowledge. He doesn't have any goals of ruling Mundus or destroying Aurbis, he just wants to know things. He'll do terrible things for knowledge, but hey he just wants to know stuff
Playing through yet another Skyrim story and I decided to full complete the Dragonborn DLC for the first time. You know actually hang out in Solstheim instead of beat Mirrak and never return. Anyway, one of the powers from the Black Books granted me a passive buff to unrelenting force, giving a slight chance that a target may be torn apart. It got me thinking, what are the chances that the Thalmor with the help of hermaeus mora are how Ulfric's Thum was so powerful as to rip Torygg apart?
The Thalmor are more than likely Daedra-phobic. They're Altmer nationalists, and the Altmer don't exactly have a rosy view of Daedra.
The Thu'um is also nerfed in gameplay. Full power Unrelenting Shout shreds buildings in lore.
@@LordMortanius that's something I didn't know as far as the difference between lore and gameplay. Also, would make sense to dull it down for gameplay otherwise you'd have people that 'what if'd shredding every building in Skyrim 🤣 need to get the black book power again and save spam until I dissolve nazeem, my life's work will be complete then.
I have a theory about why Herma Mora doesn't like Vaermina.
You know how you sometimes wake up from dreams and can't remember them? What if the reason for this in the Elder Scrolls is because Vaermina is plotting something. Or maybe Herma Mora thinks she is.
We know Herma Mora can't stand not knowing something, no matter how obscure or pointless. And not knowing something about a fellow daedric prince can spell doom for him.
If Vaermina is doing something in dreams that Herma Mora should be concerned about, he'd never know. Because the mortals whose dreams she uses for this will forget by the time ge gets his tentacles on them. And if it's not in their memories, he'd have nothing.
Perhaps Vaermina is doing something that could pose a threat to Herma Mora, or maybe he's paranoid and obsessed
I love him
I can understand Hermeus Mora desiring all knowledge.
In fact if in real life I could gain all knowledge I would love that.
The Falling stars of utmost revelation, Bleaching of the eye...... doesn't that sounds like what happens when someone reads the Elder Scrolls?
My fav daedra. Yeknow he doesn't really fit into the category of the Eldritch, even though that's what he's inspired by. Because he's known and, to some degree, understood by mortals. But still the coolest.
Semester at uni just started, really appreciate some good elder scrolls lore on my ears when I find time to relax. Thank you!
I do wanna expand on your forest and knowledge connections. It's extremely common to equate the universe and all it's knowledge to that of a deep dark woods, and there's even sayings like "to plant the seeds of knowledge/doubt," there's also references where they compare the unknown and knowable not only to a forest but also the ocean, that is infinite in size and depth. And they often call knowledge that humans attain as islands, little spots in these oceans where you can stand and understand, but still can't see across the ocean or the depths.
I think there's a huge reason and connection to reallife analogies in how they chose to represent and mythologize Herma Mora
From what I understand, Michael Kirkbride is a self proclaimed Thelemic Gnostic; and while I probably don't know nearly as much about TES lore as I do about Thelema, Gnosticism, and Hermeticism, I can definitely say this: It cannot be understated enough how important of a figure Hermes is in all three of those religions, along with Alchemy (which we all know is the secret to infinite power in many TES games.)
If Hermaeus Mora is based on Hermes Trismegistis, then he is actually the Monad, or the universal mind of creation. Think of a seed planted in Mundus, that grows into a tree of life so powerful and massive that it bends back on time itself create its own existence, and that is the mind of Hermes Trismegistis. He knows all truths, all untruths, all potentialities and every impossibility at all times and with perfect vividness. His mind is the primordial waters in which he grows, his roots are guarded by a three spiders that spin their webs with the fate of all existence, and those spiders are him.
In Hermeticism, Hermes is believed to be the Aeon, a being that exists as the catalyst for all interactions, as he is the scribe and messenger of all things. He literally embodied the passing of the mantle from Uranus, to Cronus, to Zeus, as well as any potential successors. According the the Kybylion, this belief is said to originate from his connection to the Egyptian Thoth, who was also the god of scribes and alchemy. They believed that the mind of Thoth contained a chemical formula so potent that it produced the light of Ra's solar disk, which took the form of three protector goddesses and the all seeing Eye of Ra that resided over all of creation.
In Thelema, He is Babylon and Akasha, Shiva and Parvati, Indra and the Veil of Maya. He is Saturn, The Green Man, The Beast, The Baphomet, Lord and Guardian of the Threshold and the blind wanderer of all liminal space. He is Sophia and Yaldabaoth, the polymorphous god Abraxas, and the Barbelo the unknowable Father Goddess. Within his mind, all things are unified, nothing is omitted, all ideas are roles to play, all boundaries are an illusion to be broken.
Anyway, IMO, that's probably the forbidden knowledge that Hermaeus Mora holds, as well as the reason for Kirkbride leaving Bethesda and writing C0DA. Shit gets pretty unhinged when you get to the Thelemic side of things.
Afaik no belief holds that Hermes is literally God, like you are describing. Hermeticism says he is the greatest mind to have ever lived, but still just a man, not God.
Dragonborn just want's to know the answer to one question: Hermes Trismegistis, how to kill it ? Then the Dragonborn can absorb it's soul and take All the loots. :-)
I love these videos. VaatiVidya could learn a thing or two from you.
What happens when Hermes Mora becomes aware of the dream? Is he already there or does he have a chance at zero Sum