Too Dangerous For Public Roads.
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- Опубликовано: 7 май 2024
- The TVR Cerbera Speed 12, originally known as the Project 7/12, is a sports car designed by TVR in 1997. Based on the TVR Cerbera, the vehicle was intended to be both the world's fastest road car and the basis for a GT1 class endurance racer. However, problems during its development, changing GT1 class regulations and the eventual decision that it was simply incapable of being used as a road car forced TVR executives to abandon its development.
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"even those with money" like they're gonna be the safest drivers
Usually, those with money are more experienced in driving high-powered cars, as wealth provides access to this type of vehicle.
as well as safety features to make up for the lack of skill those ppl have
@@MSAutoSnap Hate to disagree with you but most racing drivers I know don't drive supercars off the track
I agree to that but my comment was more about the difference in handling power between someone used to standard cars and those accustomed to more hp in their everyday vehicles. I get where you're coming from i just dont feel its relevant to what I meant.
@@MSAutoSnapMeans f all about ability or natural skill though. If it's about experience a lot of older people have been on the road for a long time yet still can't drive for manure. Just saying...
I just remember this car being undrivable in Tran Turismo 3.
But a good drift car hahaha
Was my favorite
Who would’ve thought a game named trans turismo would be about cars
Freudian slip?
And in FH4
TVR made some *absolute monsters*
Neighbour had an opalescent blue/pink TVR Tuscan and 12yo me fkn loved it 😂
Reflex purple was the name of the paint I believe, was factory
@@Racing_Fox413 God damn it was pretty 😍 😅
It’s funny, this car was available to drive in Gran Turismo 2 and it was completely undriveable in the game as well. Even with suspension tuning, full downforce and the longest gear ratios and final drive the game would take, it would like the tires in 5th gear.
I learned so much from trying to fix this car in the game, I was able to jump in and use an alignment rack when I started working on cars in real life.
You know it's dangerous when TVR themselves admit to.
It was made by the British so I really wouldn't trust the quality. Probably missing important bolts.
@@ryelor123 What a ridiculous thing to say.
@@ryelor123 Boeing is American
@@ryelor123 It was made by a few blokes in Blackpool building cars out of fibreglass with no ABS or traction control, what did you expect? 🤦♂️
But, you know that does remind me of a few other cars like the Dodge Viper, the Chevrolet Corvette… but at least those had small engines. Oh wait.
🧐🧐🧐 Americans…
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos Not sorry our shit sounds so much better.
2.9s in the 90s... INSANE
Certainly! It's really nuts timelessly. But this is not as fast as your run of the mill vette nowadays. It's so weird where priorities land year to year.
That's not that incredible. The Buick GNX was pretty close to those numbers.
@@TehButterflyEffect I believe it was just sub 5 seconds for the gnx
@@TehButterflyEffect and far from 240mph.
@@TehButterflyEffectBut close is not the same as is.
That man has a good heart to genuinely realize this and stop production because of that
You're naive as hell if you actually believe that.
Good heart or not it wasnt his place to decide whats best for people. Couldve still produced it and just made it a track only car or smth. If someone cant handle a vehicle thats theyre own fault
@@ThePhantomGodofNightthank God you’re not a CEO . How would you sleep knowing you sold a car that dangerous to a man you just took money from
@TheSmallmoney id sleep no worse than i normally sleep. Its not a companies fault that someone used their product innapropiately, dangerously or recklessly
Actually it is. Case closed. He's a good man so as he practices. Bugatti is more money driven that is their God. But this mans God must be Jesus Christ considering he didn't allow people to literal kill themselves. @@ThePhantomGodofNight
This motor boosted in the Sagaris was my favorite car on Forza Motorsport.
Never could win a race but damn that Le Mans straight on test drive..
Looking at today´s hypercar market, I can´t help but feel TVR had absolute gold in their hands with the Speed 12. While they were absolutely right that it was far too dangerous, especially without modern safety features, they would have been ahead of Bugatti by almost a decade.
They screwed up big time and drove the whole brand into the ground with cost cutting cheap materials on the speed six that this car was based on. They used cast engine internals and sub- recycled soda can alloy pistons that would break every 20-30k Miles with minimally spirited driving. I'm sure they went all out for these prototypes, as they did for the 6.
Nope, nope, nope. TVR could never achieve that. They built "track ready" cars not hypercars. Look at the frames under the Cerberas, look at the crude aero, look at the hardware on hand. The would never have geared it to be a high top speed car. It would have killed anyone who tried to pass 150 mph in it.
They should have stuck with what they knew well. 1050-1200 kg, 350-500 hp thrill rides. This thing only helped their downfall. That could have been a happy niche for them a'la Donkervoort, or KTM automotive. I think the owner let his feelings get the better of him and he threw common sense out the window. It's a damn shame. I think the Sagaris was their winning formula, a car that will impress with performance even today.
@@jafu745yeah sagaris was the best mukbang for buck...cerbera was just likr slapping 1200hp in a styrophone cooler
And it didn't make 1000hp more like 760hp
Seeing how Koenigsegg reached 300 mph this car would be less feared if it hadn't traumatized me in forza motorsport 2
Some people don't know how much safer modern vehicles are. Porsche 930 (Which is a 911 made between `74 and `89) had 282HP and it was nicknamed "The Widowmaker" because people were crashing them. 282hp on 1350kg is a lot! Imagine 1000hp on 1000kg. This is an insane amount of power for a 90s vehicle.
Nowadays kiddos jump in 500-700hp cars, they punch the pedal and they get home safe and sound because modern cars have many safety features.
I can imagine if an untrained driver just pushed the gas on this thing a little too hard you'd spin out and crash at 100 mph immediately. RWDs are already the most dangerous drivetrain, especially one that weighs nearly nothing and puts out the power of a small airplane. they had seatbelts and airbags back then but they didn't often have stability control, collision detection cameras/auto braking, etc
@perkypears well, kinda. He'll crash, but not at 100mph. It's probably going to be at around 30-50mph. I don't know about which car you're speaking, but a small airplane has around 100-350hp so if you're talking about the Porsche, you're right. More than 350hp it's not going to be a small airplane (excluding those very few examples of modified small planes)
Regarding the difficulty in drivetrains, I'd say that the motorcycle drivetrains are more difficult. The RWD is difficult, but it has two wheels moving and two additional keeping the car in place :D
Of course, in practice, keeping a bike in place is easy when the rider has brains.
The 930 Turbo was sketchy because of the severe turbo lag and unstable handling characteristics. Not necessarily the peak power.
This generation is a widowmaker because of the turbo, which had so much lag that when it kicked in, it surprised drivers who were not prepared for such a long delay in the turbo's operation. TVR is a different story - the car had no power assists and operated only on the driver's skills, which, as we know, can vary.
Yeah these had no traction control or stability control
I saw the Cerbera Speed 12 at a motor show in Birmingham NEC many years ago. It looked mad!
What a pure iconic beast, respect.
A 1000hp from a Naturally Aspirated 7.7l, V12 sounds pretty Insane for a car developed in the 90's and giving it such power to weight ratio, no wonder!!😳
Can-Am MrLaren ran a GM v8 8.7 ltr NA 850hp 1974.
pretty sure its twin turbo charged.
Oh they could do some insane things with cars. But at some point its like we really gonna hand over cars that can do over 250mph to the public freely? It was the Viper basically that never came. If they built the car now they might have more luck with safety and aerodynamics for driver safety..
@@unkindled6410no it was NA.
The cerbera 3.5 V8 made 350hp NA.
They were doing proper super cars long before ferarri etc who just lobbed turbo's in everything going into the 80's.
@@finlaymcdiarmid5832 ferraris cars were always mostly NA though. Yes the F40 had single turbo but it was one of the more uncommon cases.
Cancelling the V12 was the end of TVR…this is the car that could of changed everything for TVR
It did....
It was built for Le Mans but the rules changed it’s raced in British GT
Widow maker part 2
Could have*
Never mind, they inevitable lawsuits.
The Speed 12 will forever be a gem in my heart. Wow.
😳I remember when in GT2 this DERANGED Beast From Somewhere More Evil Than Hell👹👺 was undrivable, I mean, anti-drivable😱💀
I can confirm Blackpool is far more evil than hell!!! 💀
TVR owner Peter Wheeler doesn't sound like a team player... If someone wants to die by V12, then that's their dang right
It is, but I guess he didn’t want that possibility weighing on his conscience.
@TranceFur That's like saying firearms manufacturers are somewhat responsible for the shootings that happen. It's not on their conscience. We have free will. If someone chooses to be a dick, then that's on them. Not the manufacturer. I imagine he simply didn't see the point in making a car that the majority of owners would crash within the first week. Even though it's not a waste of the companies money, as they wouldn't be paying out, it makes sense that he figured it'd be best not to put it into production. If the power isn't really usable, then it's kind of a waste. So I think it's got less to do with him not wanting it on his conscience, and more to do with simply knowing that the power and torque were too great, and not user friendly. Pointless having such a beast if even on a track you can't really go past 1/3 throttle without spinning. Although there are definitely drivers out there that could peddle it and would enjoy the difficulty.
Oh, christ. Is there something that is not a human rights violation or some conspiracy? It was impossible to keep that thing on the road with early 90s technology. This was built on a shoestring budget. Much like the Viper and look how that thing wrapped itself around every tree and telephone pole in the US just for touching the gas on cold tyres. And that had less than HALF the power.
Do you know or realize how big of a power 1hp/kg is? And how little safety features it had? Thats insane power for a car this raw in terms of safety.
In the track? Buy and go use it, no one will care if owner dies.
But most of the buyers would try to use this beast in streets which would result same or even worse than notorious crowd eating mustangs.
@@TranceFur As if someone else couldn't equip them with V12 power lol.
That car in Play Stations Grand Turismo is absolutely nuts! So extremely fast. Hard to control.
Same on Xbox in Forza
Gran Turismo 5 is by far the best. 6 is good too though.
Think it got to 280 something mph in GT3 A Spec. Or maybe that was 4. Similar anyway.
My posted comment before reading yours. "Only advanced pro's could ever think of selecting and then managing to drive this beast on #GranTurismo for #PS2." ;]
@@TallerMan.1520 or people that could hack the game and build hybrid cards using the , GameShark, Smart Cartridge or the Action Replay cartridges.
Literally my most favorite car of all time
I have seen the car in person and it is breathtaking. An all time favourite for sure...it's a shame they couldn't have de-tuned it to be 'slightly' safer as I would have loved to have seen and heard these on the road.
Front looks like lotus, back looks like viper... makes perfect sense
TVR's are underrated cars
Had some quirks and strange problems. But probably more reliable than the average British 70's car by alot.
I still wouldn't dare drive one at high speeds without race car driver experience bailing a burning car & fire crews on stand-by.
They're great cars when they're running. Most are pushed to the side of the road.
Sounds overated to me
Now that is a responsible man. He's not out for himself.
bs, they had no money.
I was hoping to find this comment as I think he done a very nobel thing. He could have just gone for the money but instead thought about the potential carnage such a machine would have caused on the open road.
@@marcinm2871 they already deposited the money, iguess money wasn't the core issues
Should have detuned it down to 650hp and add weight in the right areas, and still sold it. To scrap the project entirely, was a shame
it would have been a disservice to what an amazing machine they created. chad move to create something too OP to allow for public consumption
Ok so its basically a viper on steroids with 2 more cylinders lol
The car the viper wishes it was 😂
And far less weight, better handling and aerodynamics and much better overall chassis/suspension design.
Since when was the viper a tubular space frame?
It kinda looks like an uglier viper that has more power and handling lol
Woow.
When I first seen the body I thought it was a viper. Similar body shape especially towards the back.
When I first SAW the body, not “seen”. Don’t make yourself sound as if you spent every single day of your life in a trailer park.
@@alphazuluzyou aren’t the language police. Calm down
@@alphazuluzrelax 😭
I remember driving that thing in grand tourismo. So sick. ...
sick from spinning in circles? :D
In Germany, you can only change a car mirror if it has been specially checked for the model and installed correctly, if that does not fit everything, it is too dangerous for the road and carries high penalties.
I've seen this car in the flesh in a car museum and it is glorious.
Yep, was going to say, lakeland motor museum. The bloke whos car it is takes it out every now and again.
Hands down one of the most beautiful/magnificent vehicles ever created. Too bad it didn't get more recognition. The segaris is also an amazing looking vehicle
Honestly, I respect the creator of the car for not putting it into production. Showed he probably cared a decent bit about peoples safety.
Except he didn’t, basically every car TVR made was dangerous, as dangerous as a dodge viper basically, that’s every car they made not just 1 model, this was just too far.
The fact that they sank all that money in to R&D all for the owner to call it off because he was worried it was too dangerous shows the character of Peter Wheeler. Class act through and through.
What a bummer. It looks like an amazing racecar. They should have done like a TVR cup series
This was my go to car on forza whenever I'd race friends or family. One time my cousin was im picking the Bugatti you'll never beat me and I just like ok and proceeded to smoke him at Lemans lol.
There was though, there was the Tuscan Challenge and the TVRCC.
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos I had no idea.
TVR always had manufacturing, reliability and budget issues. I dont believe for one second that it was cancelled because it was "too dangerous", unless they were talking concerns about bits falling off it 😆
I think that’s part of the ethics, tbf. Ie: If you’re Peter Wheeler, you know the kind of reputation your cars have, is it really wise to double down on that? 😅 Knowing that you can’t reach the same standards of a Formula One team.
Finally found someone who isn't naive.
Likely the real truth.
If they had gotten bought out by some automotive giant to be their new sports/race car division, they definitely would have been able to work out the reliability problems. It's like when Lancia races, they don't use the same budget parts & construction when they stick a driver they expect to cross the checker flags in their car, just the customer.
The British are too powerful we had to nerf our selves.
No. You guys do suck.
@@jcgeldenhuys2084lol you say that as though we care about the opinion of an American when it comes to performance vehicles
@adventure_F0x I'm not American bro. But good job at trying to be funny.
@@jcgeldenhuys2084 I wasn’t trying to be funny.
@@Racing_Fox413bring any piece of crap car from Europe to America and see it get dusted by your average modified car on the highway.
America by far has the best car culture, anything and everything anyone wants is right here and it's cheap and plentiful so cmon, euro trash weakling.
I’ve noticed that there’s a lot of people (probably Americans) claiming that this car would have “saved TVR.”
Maybe…. If TVR was American. But it wasn’t, it was a small sportscar builder in Blackpool. TVR was at its best making small, 6-cylinder convertible sportscars that matched the narrow, blind and twisty English country roads (there’s not a lot of straight and flat roads in the UK that go on and on for hundreds of miles, there’s no massive central deserts to cross.) So making a car that basically showed off the worst aspects of TVR - to an extreme - really would not have been a sound business decision or a particularly ethical one if the cars would have been shedding parts as they went along. That’s just too dangerous and inhumane.
It would be right at home with today's hypercars!!! I wish someone would duplicate this "British Viper"!!! .....so much power in a 'miata' ..... the real widow-maker😅..... dammit Wheeler! Maybe SSC (VENOM) could do it
Wasn't this on Gran Turismo back in the day?
yes GT2
Tvr speed 12. Yes in gran trismo 3
@@MSAutoSnapGT4, 5 and 6 too
I had one, a chameleon teal one😏
This at the top of all the drifting leader boards in GT
People keep talking about how this car lacked "modern safety equipment", but people don't seem to understand that means not having anti-locking brakes, stability control system or traction control combined with a manual gearbox. Even if you knew how to drive supercars this thing would've not been a fun thing to drive especially since the tires they would've used on its rear axle would've had very little grip when cold.
Power means nothing if it won't hold the road. The McLaren F1 wasn't just a lot of power in a lightweight car. It was engineered by a racecar builder. How do you think it handled? That's a master art that is not easy to duplicate. I saw the back end losing it at low speed in the video. It was probably undriveable and he was right to cancel the project.
This was my favourite car in GRAN TURISMO 3 and 4 i really enjoyed driving it, it was hard to drive but still every single time i drive it, it brings me joy, A LOT OF JOY.
or in otherwords wanted to avoid lawsuits when some asshat totals his car because they could not handle it, i don't blame him tbh maybe should of made them sign a waver
Now that one-of-a-kind production would worth more than any supercar ✋🤚
It's a shame they never made these.
I saw this testing around Thruxton as a kid . Ripped its spoiler off in the braking zone coming from the back straight lol
That's a TVR alright
@@tiagobelo4965 TVR SPEED 12 MATE , was even in toca touring cars 2 on the ps1 lol
Insane.
That's why around that time they started mounting spoilers to the chassis frame, not the body panels like ontop of the trunk. Instead, *THRU* the trunk.
Weak management will ruin a company.
The speed 12 is exactly what TVR needed.
Peter wheeler himself was a former racing driver, if he said smth he and his engineers made was too dangerous. Id trust his judgement
@@prds25386 is TVR still around?
How much torque? Likely a wide enough band to make street driving with WIDE ratio 5 or 6speed a hand full for most.
12 spd was not used in a Dodge Daytona, rest is history & mere One-upmanship...
@@charlesangell_bulmtl i believe there were actual reports of test drivers saying it spun until 5th gear
@@prds25386 sounds like they needed to develop an awd system to match the power.
I wish we could see a modern TVR with modern safety features. Sure, it may lose some of the spirit, but a super lightweight FR car with that much power would be incredibly cool, hopefully without killing someone.
I always drove this in videogames and just assumed it was some mass produced car that the US never got 😅
The owner of the company remembered he’s British and is on the decline. Hence the last minute decision to abandon glory. That car would have been a death trap like most of the super cars of that era. Difference is, those cars were actually made.
In all seriousness, I’m sure this official story from TVR is just a coverup because in reality there’s no way that little outfit was gonna be able to produce dozens of those Cerbera Speed 12s. Way more complex than the cars they’ve been churning out at that point.
I'd imagine the truth is somewhere inbetween. A complex build with plenty of potential gremlins and it was like a kamikazi fighter with 4 wheels. Still a shame it never went into production properly, what a weapon.
As a child, I thought it was a Jaguar. Now it is nothing but a distant memory. L TVR
TWR (Tom Wilkinson Racing) did the Jags. I've taken a while to recall either name correctly more than a few times.
Thanks to this genius we don’t have dozens of reckless idiots crashing these things all over the place 👍
*loud mustang noises
Basically just a lightweight viper made by TVR. Would’ve been sooooo sick to own one
exactly what I need
Sounds like he got a big enough offer, from a competing company, to not make it.
Man I remember driving this car in racing games back in the day.lol
Robin chasing criminals around Gotham in his road legal birthday gift.
The owner of TVR didn’t want the deaths on his conscience… He felt sure the Speed 12 would kill people, it was so raw.
It would have been incredible converted to 4WD.
I want that car
This thing was an absolute monster.
I love the fact that after thinking about it he came to the conclussion noone was worthy, and I hope he kept the one car for himself.
The thing about TVRs is they were built in a shed in blackpool and felt like it, they went out of business predominantly because they were very expensive for how unreliable they were and how cheap they felt
This thing was a beast in Gran Turismo. You had to really work at it in order to get used to how it handles before you could effectively drive it. Nothing else has been as insane as the Speed 12. I love it. I want one.
One of my all time favorite cars ever
What a nice-looking Dodge Viper!
Well done TVR. You cared for life and not money. I salute you good people. You saved lives.
I like how unique and instantly recognisable all TVR models are.
The second I saw the car I said "that's a TVR" they're unmistakable.
I saw this at a motor show once, iconic beyond belief.
I remember this TVR. They should have at least took it racing. Thanks.
NO WAY!!! THE BODY PROFF IT ALL!!!......
That Dyna Mite jingle has no right to be such a banger.
It was actually being developed for the GT1 race group. . But changing regulations and the fact that it was incapable of being a safe road vehicle killed it off. However it was used in the British GT championship a few times. They built 3
Fair play to the owner deciding they were too dangerous and cancelling the orders. Not many business owners would have accepted that loss.
Any sentence that uses the words: british cars and dangerous are always 100 percent accurate. Past, present and future!
"Only one road legal one was ever made."
Gear heads: "So what you're saying is, there's a chance."
While testing 1 bank at a time, they would experience even more parasitic loss, pushing the none firing bank. It would be minimum 500hp per bank when both engine banks fire together
One of the best looking supercars of all time. Quite a shame it never went further than it did
TVR made some of the most ridiculously awesome stuff in the 90s when nobody else was even close
In grand tourismo game I couldn't keep it in the track, I remember how the rpm would fly to 9k sounding deep and it would just slide all over the place lol core memory right there
I know what happened, other car manufacturers paid them to stop what they were doing. Basically, "no no- not in OUR market".
The Callaway vett went over 250 in the 70s
Killing your customers probably doesn't make good business sense
TVR's - you didn't get car insurance you got life insurance.
Ngl i was dying when they didnt mute tims mic and you could hear the ecko from the speakers 😂😂😂
I had a poster of the Speed 12 on my wall as a kid in the 90s. My uncle took me to the Factory in Blackpool and this was my “when I am bigger” car.
What a legendary excuse to pull out instead of telling the public your company can’t deliver.
It's not like the McLaren F1 was known for it's safety and driveability, as much as i like it.
Even for those with money ! Bro, only those people would've afforded it !
bro got that driving empire life 💀💀😭😭🙏🙏🙏
Gorgeous!
And a company owner who didn't let greed trump customer safety. Definitely a rarity!
That 0-60 with 90s tires is insane, with todays tires it would easily beat that mark. It was able to pull off such a feat largely because of its lack of weight.
2.9 0-60 while also having the weight of a Harley road glide would’ve taken so many lives. Thankfully the owner was smart enough to stop it before it did
The man lost traction on his own drive way, his life of dealing with lawsuits and bankruptcy flashed before his eyes and he pulled the plug.
bro saved lives of people who dont deserve cars
idk how to feel about that
The innocent family that would have ended up killed by an irresponsible driver don’t deserve cars then no?
@@Racing_Fox413 yes but that means that the right driver's would probably never drive it
This is a lose lose situation
Nobody wins
@@user-km3dj4bu3p so you’re saying innocent peoples lives are worth potentially sacrificing?
@@Racing_Fox413 uhhhhhh well technically it's not the fault of the car so I would say yeah
You know it's like a Carrera gt, we all know its a hard to tame car
And it did claim Paul walker and his friend, but they were well aware of the risk
Would you blame the car manufacturers for making sports cars?, even though you were the guy driving them irresponsibly?
At the end of the day if you drive a car according to the law you would never crash (unless someone crashes into you)
It's not the car, it's the driver
"A TVR developed 7.7L V12 engine" literally seconds of fun
I worked at a TVR dealership those speed 6 were so detuned. If they'd let it eat they'd never sold a v8 again.
A car that Carroll Shelby would have definitely been Interested in, and Ken Miles would have LOVED!
Owner: F everyone, I'm the only one who can have this!
The V12 broke the input shaft on a dynamometer rated for 1000bhp, but each bank individually developed 480bhp? The math ain't mathin'.
Definitely not if my math ain't wrong that's only 960 when you add the 2 Banks together
Real ones know this barn find in FH4
When even Peter Wheeler says it's way too dangerous and hard to drive, it really is. 😂