The whole set is great and this Brahms 4 is one of its highlights. I love this work so much that I can’t honestly choose among, say my top 5 versions. Stokowski’s has always been in that category. As are his 1st and 2nd on Cala from his nineties (!). Surprisingly no-nonsense yet full of individuality. Stokowski’s Indian Summer was one of recorded music’s godsend.
The Brahms 4th is a special favorite of mine, and I adore this performance. As David points out, his tempi are very swift, especially in the 1st movement and most specially in its coda. There he accelerates as opposed to wiping away the tension like the vast majority of conductors who do an obscene ritardando. Bravo Maestro.
Ritardando is for the moment when one cannot speak through the orchestra unless one slows to elaborate the material through the circumflexes in which long notes fade into walls and shorter notes are able to make themselves heard more clearly for their subtle interactions. Those who use retardando merely to wrap it up are simply offering a signs to a path to an exit the audience will comprehend. Stokowski was simply better equipped to squeeze out meaning.
Yup. My all-time favorite performance of the 4th. Everyone else sounds dull in comparison. His live performance on BBC is just as great. That one has louder French horns. You can't go wrong with either of them, but the studio has a bit better sound.
Ha, a good coupling in my books! A classic passionate Brahms 4 (who even cares about the dispassionate ones?..), and a "weird", individualistic Mahler 2 (bearing that Mahler himself was one of greatest individualists) that brought one David Hurwitz "into" Mahler! Probably the most interesting combination ever made by producers... and, what the heck, just get the 14CD Sony/RCA Stokowski box if you can find it!
David, great selection. Streamed this yesterday and really enjoyed it! I don’t really listen much to Stokowski recordings which I’m beginning to think may be a mistake?
Stokowski’s final discs were made for what used to be Columbia Masterworks. It’s a remarkable series. I love my old vinyl copies of Sibelius 1 and L’Arlesienne Suites, and my Cala CD of Mendelssohn 4 and Brahms 2. I recall reading somewhere that the Mendelssohn 4 was his very last recording, although it was released before the Brahms 2. I also recall reading somewhere (maybe it was Oliver Daniel’s biography) that Stokowski died the night before he was scheduled to begin recording Rach 2-at age 95! The guy began recording in the days of acoustics and just missed digital technology by a few years.
These were originally for RCA...yes there is a Columbia box also (which I own)...but these were RCA originally (I have found the original covers). At the end of his life Stokey recorded for at least 4 different labels. But another interesting one in the RCA set is a short suite from Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet recorded with the NBC Symphony in 1954 which makes it perhaps RCA's earliest stereo master. But, of course, Stokowski did the earliest stereo with Dr. Harvey Fletcher and Bell Labs back in the '30's. I had lunch with Dr. Fletcher about 50 years ago and he told us (4 students) about those sessions....which pre-dated Walt Disney's interest in what would become Fantasia. One of the Bell Labs recordings made it into Fantasia...but the rest were recorded specifically for the film. So it is not surprising that Stokowski would make RCA's first stereo recording because he was deeply involved with recording technology, as you've said...from the acoustic era through the analogue stereo era. PS: this recording (Brahms) was originally released as a Quadraphonic production.
Thanks for bringing up Stokowski’s Bell Labs experimental discs. But please note that the recordings I referred to were all originally Columbia (USA) albums, recorded with the once-ubiquitous pickup orchestra, the National Philharmonic. Of course, it’s all Sony now.
@@christopherjohnson2422 ...and, as I said, I own the Columbia National Philharmonic recordings (all of them)...but the set to which Dave refers as indeed an RCA set. I believe he was recording National Philharmonic recordings about the same time with Delos(?). The Bell Labs recordings were available once very briefly on LP's but I never heard them. Most of what I know about them came from Dr. Harvey Fletcher at the lunch I referred to. Like Dave what amazes me about his recordings he made in his 90's is the visceral energy he puts into some things one would expect to be "tired". Stokey was the most uniquely interesting conductors of the 20th century. I listened to his 78's because my Dad had them before I was born. For this reason my late wife believed strongly that I had a pre-natal affinity for Stokey before I was born. She even found an article from the New England Journal of Medicine to support her belief.
In the early 1970s, Stokowski recorded both for RCA Red Seal and for Decca/London. Most of his early 1970s RCA releases were offered as CD-4 Quadradiscs as well as stereo LPs, and included a fabulous disc of Stokowski's own Bach transcriptions, Beethoven's "Eroica" Symphony, and Scheherazade. As his RCA recording sessions wrapped up in 1974, CBS Masterworks (aka Columbia Masterworks) signed Stokowski for a series of recordings with the hand-picked National Philharmonic Orchestra. Most of these CBS LPs incorporated SQ Quadraphonic encoding (inconspicuously labeled on the album's back cover). These included a truly stunning Sibelius Symphony No. 1 , Bizet's Carmen and L'Arlessiene Suite, a wonderful album of short works including Debussy's Clair de Lune, a wonderful Brahms Symphony No. 2, and eloquent readings of Mendelssohn's "Italian" Symphony and Bizet's Symphony in C.
I haven’t had any of the Greatest Recordings Ever in my small collection until this one. I bought the LP and the CD with the Mahler 2 (the Mahler 2 LP was my first recording). I’ve always enjoyed the Brahms and now I’m happy to know why.
As you said it, Stokowsky was a showman, and I don't think that suits Brahms well. Jochum's 4th was fast and passionate but reasonably fast. The first time I heard Stokowsky's 4th, I thought it was even more passionate and even faster...until I realized that it might be too fast. It does turn out a bit into a show. My subjective take, but of course, it's difficult to criticize a genius.
I dislike the idea that "showmanship" is somehow suspect. In general, you can't have enough, and even a Brahms doesn't write a work for nearly a hundred musicians and more than a thousand spectators without intending some level of showmanship. Stoki's is never (at least in this work) self-conscious or an end in itself.
Thanks! That was an unexpected recommendation. Already listening.
The whole set is great and this Brahms 4 is one of its highlights. I love this work so much that I can’t honestly choose among, say my top 5 versions. Stokowski’s has always been in that category. As are his 1st and 2nd on Cala from his nineties (!). Surprisingly no-nonsense yet full of individuality. Stokowski’s Indian Summer was one of recorded music’s godsend.
The Brahms 4th is a special favorite of mine, and I adore this performance. As David points out, his tempi are very swift, especially in the 1st movement and most specially in its coda. There he accelerates as opposed to wiping away the tension like the vast majority of conductors who do an obscene ritardando. Bravo Maestro.
Ritardando is for the moment when one cannot speak through the orchestra unless one slows to elaborate the material through the circumflexes in which long notes fade into walls and shorter notes are able to make themselves heard more clearly for their subtle interactions. Those who use retardando merely to wrap it up are simply offering a signs to a path to an exit the audience will comprehend. Stokowski was simply better equipped to squeeze out meaning.
YES! YES! YES!! One of the greatest recordings of Anything I have ever heard! Thanks David, very much, for talking about this one.
Great Video * Thank you and Happy New Year
Yup. My all-time favorite performance of the 4th. Everyone else sounds dull in comparison. His live performance on BBC is just as great. That one has louder French horns. You can't go wrong with either of them, but the studio has a bit better sound.
I love the passion of this performance!
Dave, do you have an overview of the entire Romantic Era? History, etc?
No. Haven't done that yet.
Ha, a good coupling in my books! A classic passionate Brahms 4 (who even cares about the dispassionate ones?..), and a "weird", individualistic Mahler 2 (bearing that Mahler himself was one of greatest individualists) that brought one David Hurwitz "into" Mahler! Probably the most interesting combination ever made by producers... and, what the heck, just get the 14CD Sony/RCA Stokowski box if you can find it!
David, great selection. Streamed this yesterday and really enjoyed it! I don’t really listen much to Stokowski recordings which I’m beginning to think may be a mistake?
Stokowski’s final discs were made for what used to be Columbia Masterworks. It’s a remarkable series. I love my old vinyl copies of Sibelius 1 and L’Arlesienne Suites, and my Cala CD of Mendelssohn 4 and Brahms 2. I recall reading somewhere that the Mendelssohn 4 was his very last recording, although it was released before the Brahms 2. I also recall reading somewhere (maybe it was Oliver Daniel’s biography) that Stokowski died the night before he was scheduled to begin recording Rach 2-at age 95! The guy began recording in the days of acoustics and just missed digital technology by a few years.
These were originally for RCA...yes there is a Columbia box also (which I own)...but these were RCA originally (I have found the original covers). At the end of his life Stokey recorded for at least 4 different labels. But another interesting one in the RCA set is a short suite from Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet recorded with the NBC Symphony in 1954 which makes it perhaps RCA's earliest stereo master. But, of course, Stokowski did the earliest stereo with Dr. Harvey Fletcher and Bell Labs back in the '30's. I had lunch with Dr. Fletcher about 50 years ago and he told us (4 students) about those sessions....which pre-dated Walt Disney's interest in what would become Fantasia. One of the Bell Labs recordings made it into Fantasia...but the rest were recorded specifically for the film. So it is not surprising that Stokowski would make RCA's first stereo recording because he was deeply involved with recording technology, as you've said...from the acoustic era through the analogue stereo era. PS: this recording (Brahms) was originally released as a Quadraphonic production.
Thanks for bringing up Stokowski’s Bell Labs experimental discs. But please note that the recordings I referred to were all originally Columbia (USA) albums, recorded with the once-ubiquitous pickup orchestra, the National Philharmonic. Of course, it’s all Sony now.
@@christopherjohnson2422 ...and, as I said, I own the Columbia National Philharmonic recordings (all of them)...but the set to which Dave refers as indeed an RCA set. I believe he was recording National Philharmonic recordings about the same time with Delos(?). The Bell Labs recordings were available once very briefly on LP's but I never heard them. Most of what I know about them came from Dr. Harvey Fletcher at the lunch I referred to. Like Dave what amazes me about his recordings he made in his 90's is the visceral energy he puts into some things one would expect to be "tired". Stokey was the most uniquely interesting conductors of the 20th century. I listened to his 78's because my Dad had them before I was born. For this reason my late wife believed strongly that I had a pre-natal affinity for Stokey before I was born. She even found an article from the New England Journal of Medicine to support her belief.
In the early 1970s, Stokowski recorded both for RCA Red Seal and for Decca/London. Most of his early 1970s RCA releases were offered as CD-4 Quadradiscs as well as stereo LPs, and included a fabulous disc of Stokowski's own Bach transcriptions, Beethoven's "Eroica" Symphony, and Scheherazade. As his RCA recording sessions wrapped up in 1974, CBS Masterworks (aka Columbia Masterworks) signed Stokowski for a series of recordings with the hand-picked National Philharmonic Orchestra. Most of these CBS LPs incorporated SQ Quadraphonic encoding (inconspicuously labeled on the album's back cover). These included a truly stunning Sibelius Symphony No. 1 , Bizet's Carmen and L'Arlessiene Suite, a wonderful album of short works including Debussy's Clair de Lune, a wonderful Brahms Symphony No. 2, and eloquent readings of Mendelssohn's "Italian" Symphony and Bizet's Symphony in C.
@@peacearchwa5103 I have all of the recordings to which you refer including many of the Phase 4 (Decca/London) productions.
Could you do a top 10 chord-guy conductors?
There should also be a great Shostakovich 6th with CSO in that set, yet its last two movements are a bit slower.
I haven’t had any of the Greatest Recordings Ever in my small collection until this one. I bought the LP and the CD with the Mahler 2 (the Mahler 2 LP was my first recording). I’ve always enjoyed the Brahms and now I’m happy to know why.
As you said it, Stokowsky was a showman, and I don't think that suits Brahms well. Jochum's 4th was fast and passionate but reasonably fast. The first time I heard Stokowsky's 4th, I thought it was even more passionate and even faster...until I realized that it might be too fast. It does turn out a bit into a show. My subjective take, but of course, it's difficult to criticize a genius.
I dislike the idea that "showmanship" is somehow suspect. In general, you can't have enough, and even a Brahms doesn't write a work for nearly a hundred musicians and more than a thousand spectators without intending some level of showmanship. Stoki's is never (at least in this work) self-conscious or an end in itself.
Esa grabación, Stokowski intentó superar su versión del 1938.