Makes complete sense - watched it through several times. I can only see one problem with this method, which is that I now have to go and spend a few hundred dollars on a new precision instrument. Ah - who am I kidding? I can't wait to acquire a new tool and try it out. Thanks for the detailed explanation. 👍
I'm going to go with "your exactly right". I learned this from you early on (15 years ago probably) and have modified a few surface gauges (added the radiused end) and use them regularly.
Great explanation! I've used a tenth indicator go up and down the vertical side, the side you had the magnetic cylinder square on, and get it to read zero, take a cut and it will be out such as your example did, if you traverse back and forth you can minimize the error in spring cutting.
Just a home hobbyist, but have seen this, maybe OxTool, or Suburban channels.. so when I saw one at a tool sale, safe in its little tall upright wooden box with a lid, grabbed it.. made by AA Gage in Detroit.. it has a thinner stem on it, & checked out as square as I could measure (even with my non- sticky tenths indicator) - checked by sticking on an angle plate & checking in different orientations.. after checking that it wasn't tapered. Also, a little annoying, now I want to check everything with it... can tell right away how 'not perfect' that angle plate is.. or 1-2-3 block... or the jaws of that grinding vise etc.. Did the one you showed the listing for have a magnetic end? that makes all the difference for convenience... Thanks for this really interesting content!
This seems like a lot of messing around to get a block square and you have explained perfectly why it is not . Ive been a fabby for 30 years and have been learning CNC machining for the last 2 years as a new profession. Your tricks have been very informative for me. Thanks Tool and Die Guy from Australia. P.S ...Channel 9 must have put a filter on. You are much better looking on you tube.
Hi, Phil. LONG time subscriber - I remember the paywalled original. I've learned a ton from you! Didn't you skip a step this time though? To be totally confident in squareness, I believe you need to first lay the block on the plate and indicate the top face to ensure it is perfectly parallel to the bottom face on the plate before you turn the block on end and check it with your squareness comparator (showing double the error).
You are correct, like the cylindrical square the faces have to be parallel for the method to work. The edges were mill finish so that may be where the error arose.
@@marley589 Sorta. The cylinder square only references from one face on the side of the block and totally depends on the perpendicularity of the cylinder - the opposite side of the block doesn't matter at all. The squareness comparator references two points (curved base and indicator tip) and depends on opposite sides of the block being parallel. The squareness comparator shows double the error, the cylinder square reads directly.
Both sides of this block were saw-cut. I'm just skimming one side square before I flip it over and finish it. On the first operation, there is literally nothing underneath it. I'm relying on the side to get the end square.
I’m confused then. If you’re not relying on both sides being parallel, then ONLY the cylinder square accurately measures squareness, no? Wouldn’t the .003” (double error) you measured with your comparator stand depend on both sides being parallel?
@@ikkentonda we call them ends and he's calling them sides. The sides have to be parallel though. If they aren't then the ends need to be parallel. The block can then be inverted and checked from the same side.
I get the set up and inspection methods but why is it out of square? Something up with the Mazak or Kurt vise? I think you should calibrate the tangent point on the indicator base to the indicator with a taller cylinder square then inspect the sides. This wouldn't cut mustard if I were making some 1-2-3 or 2-4-6 blocks, not a very clear presentation IMHO.
I explained it in the video. It's a milling machine. The block is within .0015" per side of being square over a 5" length. I explained that when the 3" end mill exits the part, it's probably dropping down .001 or so due to the release of pressure. OBVIOUSLY if want things perfectly square like 1-2-3 blocks you would grind them square, not mill them. As far as my setup goes, I welcome you to repeat it and see if you can beat it on the first try. Why is it always the guys with zero followers that want to break my balls lol. Is that the only reason you signed up on RUclips?
Yes, you would grind and maybe lap 1-2-3 blocks but would want theme as close to finish size as possible since they will grow after case hardening so as not to have to remove several thou of stock. Perhaps a spring cut with relieved tool pressure on the face mill will help. Don't take it personally, I enjoy busting balls to a get a rise on RUclips, that's why I subscribe, it helps your algorithm. No hard feeling Phil, cheers!
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Makes complete sense - watched it through several times. I can only see one problem with this method, which is that I now have to go and spend a few hundred dollars on a new precision instrument. Ah - who am I kidding? I can't wait to acquire a new tool and try it out. Thanks for the detailed explanation. 👍
It's how I got taught years ago when I first went to work in a mold shop.
Whatever you do, don’t let Bubba touch that cylindrical square.
Would say Mr Pete, the high school shop teacher.
Enjoying the heck out of your content. Thanks for sticking with it! And no, we don't need to see you shoveling snow in "a change of pace" video. ;-)
I'm going to go with "your exactly right". I learned this from you early on (15 years ago probably) and have modified a few surface gauges (added the radiused end) and use them regularly.
Great explanation! I've used a tenth indicator go up and down the vertical side, the side you had the magnetic cylinder square on, and get it to read zero, take a cut and it will be out such as your example did, if you traverse back and forth you can minimize the error in spring cutting.
I love the radius with the indicator I know for sure it works
I have a magnetic cylinder square that I use for bridgeport setups.
Never seen this before, clever!
Just a home hobbyist, but have seen this, maybe OxTool, or Suburban channels.. so when I saw one at a tool sale, safe in its little tall upright wooden box with a lid, grabbed it.. made by AA Gage in Detroit.. it has a thinner stem on it, & checked out as square as I could measure (even with my non- sticky tenths indicator) - checked by sticking on an angle plate & checking in different orientations.. after checking that it wasn't tapered.
Also, a little annoying, now I want to check everything with it... can tell right away how 'not perfect' that angle plate is.. or 1-2-3 block... or the jaws of that grinding vise etc..
Did the one you showed the listing for have a magnetic end? that makes all the difference for convenience... Thanks for this really interesting content!
Use a non magnetic indicator. Don't let the magnet in the square magnetize your indicator stylus, it can cause errors when attracted to iron parts.
Thank you
Thanks for sharing 👍
This seems like a lot of messing around to get a block square and you have explained perfectly why it is not . Ive been a fabby for 30 years and have been learning CNC machining for the last 2 years as a new profession. Your tricks have been very informative for me.
Thanks Tool and Die Guy from Australia.
P.S ...Channel 9 must have put a filter on. You are much better looking on you tube.
you have a number for the magnetic one?
Hi, Phil. LONG time subscriber - I remember the paywalled original. I've learned a ton from you! Didn't you skip a step this time though? To be totally confident in squareness, I believe you need to first lay the block on the plate and indicate the top face to ensure it is perfectly parallel to the bottom face on the plate before you turn the block on end and check it with your squareness comparator (showing double the error).
You are correct, like the cylindrical square the faces have to be parallel for the method to work. The edges were mill finish so that may be where the error arose.
@@marley589 Sorta. The cylinder square only references from one face on the side of the block and totally depends on the perpendicularity of the cylinder - the opposite side of the block doesn't matter at all. The squareness comparator references two points (curved base and indicator tip) and depends on opposite sides of the block being parallel. The squareness comparator shows double the error, the cylinder square reads directly.
Both sides of this block were saw-cut. I'm just skimming one side square before I flip it over and finish it. On the first operation, there is literally nothing underneath it. I'm relying on the side to get the end square.
I’m confused then. If you’re not relying on both sides being parallel, then ONLY the cylinder square accurately measures squareness, no? Wouldn’t the .003” (double error) you measured with your comparator stand depend on both sides being parallel?
@@ikkentonda we call them ends and he's calling them sides. The sides have to be parallel though. If they aren't then the ends need to be parallel. The block can then be inverted and checked from the same side.
I get the set up and inspection methods but why is it out of square? Something
up with the Mazak or Kurt vise? I think you should calibrate the tangent point on
the indicator base to the indicator with a taller cylinder square then inspect the
sides. This wouldn't cut mustard if I were making some 1-2-3 or 2-4-6 blocks,
not a very clear presentation IMHO.
I explained it in the video. It's a milling machine. The block is within .0015" per side of being square over a 5" length. I explained that when the 3" end mill exits the part, it's probably dropping down .001 or so due to the release of pressure. OBVIOUSLY if want things perfectly square like 1-2-3 blocks you would grind them square, not mill them. As far as my setup goes, I welcome you to repeat it and see if you can beat it on the first try. Why is it always the guys with zero followers that want to break my balls lol. Is that the only reason you signed up on RUclips?
Yes, you would grind and maybe lap 1-2-3 blocks but would want theme as
close to finish size as possible since they will grow after case hardening so
as not to have to remove several thou of stock. Perhaps a spring cut with
relieved tool pressure on the face mill will help. Don't take it personally, I enjoy busting balls to a get a rise on RUclips, that's why I subscribe, it
helps your algorithm. No hard feeling Phil, cheers!
@@petemclinc Obviously a slightly different process for something that I'm going to grind after heat treat.
@@TheToolandDieGuyrun the cutter back over the part and any drop of the cutter will disappear.
Being a metric person I have to admit that milionths sound way better than nanometers😂