Do Extensions Change Torque? Torque Wrenches and Extension Test! (INTERESTING)
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- Опубликовано: 6 янв 2023
- In this video we are answering the age old question of whether extensions affect the torque that a torque wrench outputs. Test a variety of torque wrenches and extensions in the video. Thanks for watching. AdeptApe@yahoo.com on PayPal for donations.
Amazon affiliate link to the torque adapter:
ACDELCO Torque Adapter: amzn.to/3VS6S2f 
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Thanks for watching the video. Really interesting findings with the torque, I always thought they had a bigger effect, but I guess I was wrong. Amazon Affiliate link to the Torque Adapter used in the video: ACDELCO Torque Adapter: amzn.to/3VS6S2f
I wonder if years ago metals were made cheap and they weren’t as hardened as they are now so back 30+ years ago they would cause more problems in this area
Josh looks like your snap on torque wrench needs warranted. Not close
I know that extensions can cause issues with impact drivers if you don't actively keep the slack out of them.
I was taught never to double click a torque wrench or snatch on the handle slow and steady pull
I was taught many years ago in AF tech school that extensions don't change the torque value, offsets do. As long as you are at a 90 degree angle to the fastener, you aren't changing the requirements. There is a formula for using offsets because they do create a different reading (we had certain situations where there was no choice but to use an offset).
Over 50 years ago I was taught the same in a formal apprenticeship.
Yup, BUT in the field i saw some shoddy extensions that flexed 100%. But yeah use good tools
they still teach it in the army at least when I went through the Ch 47 repair class
It's simple physics but people use faulty anecdotes, and won't believe it until it's proven or until they take college level physics. Even then some don't get it.
I remember in class I was bored so I got every extension. Connected them together to make 30 foot snake. Told the class they're gonna learn something new. some dollar bets down. And well it torqued to spec properly people were blown away.
Liar. You can't keep 30' of sloppy extensions on plane. Out of plane loss of energy. I don't know why kids feel the need to lie to feel significant.
Funny little thing, when I was in a high school skills competition our team lost points because I torqued some wheels using an extension.
I would go back to the judge and ask for those points back.
I suspect people who think an extension would change the torque don't understand the mechanics of a lever. Torque is a function of distance from center of rotation times force. (think foot times pounds--ie. 100 foot pounds is a force of 100 pounds applied at 1 foot from center of rotation, or 50 pounds at 2 feet from center of rotation, etc.) An extension doesn't increase or decrease the distance from center of rotation.
Very helpful video for those shop arguments. I've realized this issue has come from ugga dugga torque people. Torque wrench is the twisting force in smooth turning, impact guns lose twisting force from the hammering action through the extension.
What is this, project farm? Lol great info, thank you for taking the time to do this.
Torque is the product of 3 things, force (the lbs in lbs-ft) times the distance from the axis of rotation (the ft in lbs-ft) times the sine of the angle the force is applied. A wrench keeps all the angles perpendicular so this does not affect a torque wrench reading, but would affect how hard you have to pull on the wrench. Consider if you pulled at a shallow angle to the wrench so your arm was close to parallel with the wrench. The torque reading on the wrench will not change but you will have to pull much harder because at a small angle the sine of the angle is small. Similarly with a flex head ratchet the torque reading will not change but you will have to pull harder because with it bent your hand is closer to the axis of rotation.
Strange. As a new age physicist I was expecting physics to change.
Pretty interesting results Josh. Amazing test. Good on you putting this video out man. Cheers man👍💪🔧🔧
I got into it with the other 2 techs in the shop about this a few months ago…had them seething cause they didn’t wanna admit I was right…did the same thing in the Vice then one of them was like ‘I swear to got ASE says no extensions on torque wrenches!’ He spent like 15 minutes googling and is like ‘read it and weep!’ And I’m like “yeah it says no extensions on torque wrenches…but here it says ‘as long as the centerline of the anvil of the torque wrench lines up with the centerline of the bolt, your torque will be accurate, regardless of the distance between the two, this article refers to extensions such as crows feet’” then he spent 15 more minutes googling before admitting defeat
This was a neat test/video! I’ve used extensions with torque wrench’s and wondered for years of the accuracy. This proves my years long assumption was correct👍
This was a great video, we did a test years ago as well but with two dial torque wrenches with about 8 feet of extension’s between them, strapped one to the table and turned the other and both had the same reading
Awesome Josh. This blows away some of the myths I have been told/taught over the years. Thanks.
Great Video. I appreciate your honest testing and results. Thanks
You may find the Torque Test Channel very interesting as they have done this testing in a fairly scientific manner,lots of impact wrench testing also
Thanks for the info. I often wondered if they changed torque. Keep up the great videos 👍
Torque wrench are calibrated to deliver a set torque based on measured length from the center of the drive square to a point on the handle. Most quality torque wrenches will have some way of marking this point on the handle. The manual that comes with it will also show this. Using an extension does not change that measurement. Now using a torque adapter can change that measurement and will affect that torque delivered.
They misconception that extensions will affect torque with a torque wrench come from impact tools. When you are using an impact tool you are essentially using a hammer to turn the fastener. This hammering will cause torsional deflection. This torsional deflection will reduce the amount of torque the impact tool delivers.
A torque wrench is not delivering torque. It is measuring the torque being delivered.
A couple ideas for a future video with torque wrenchs are how torque adapters affect torque (there are formulas available to calculate this) and what effect jerking, bouncing, or quickly moving a torque wrench has (think a 125 lb tech trying to torque truck lug nuts to 500 lbs)
Quick disclaimer here, I am not an engineer or physicist. I am a fellow truck tech (Mack) with a few years of experience under my belt that enjoys his job, most of the time, and enjoys learning. That's why I watch these videos.
Josh, this is a great video man! I’ve always been skeptical of the shoptalk about torque wrenches and extensions. I’ve never thought that tool companies would sell us techs astronomically expensive tools. All knowing that they become inaccurate from using their associated extensions.
All of my torque wrenches & extensions used for torquing are 3/8” to 3/4” and I’ve always used extensions where needed for access during torque procedures. I use brute strength to turn angles with markers as you do but, where accessible I use impacts to turn the angle if space to swing the angle by hand is no achievable.
We did a test like this using Snap-On digital torque wrenches and the Snap-On field calibration setup in my tech course.
Ive always found this myth funny - I drill water wells - have done oilfield - and if there was a loss in torque due to length a drilling rig would be severely limited in depth - 6000 ft/lb on the head means 6000 ft/lb on the bit - the "flex" is there no matter what - a 100 meter (approx. 300 foot) drill string on lock up will have 6000 ft/lb over its whole length - but depending on drill pipe sizes can have several turns in difference from top to bottom - i.e you release torque and the top will turn backwards while the bit is stationary - gets to be a problem if you get a bit stuck
Thanks a lot for the test. I found this tool "better than ordering" like we did in Brazil. Around here a click torquemeter is very expensive. I saw this ACDelco on eBay a few years ago, and I had to buy it. But time has passed... Now that I've acquired one. It's incredibly accurate. Can you imagine in workshops that don't have any? The fact of using extensions, the biggest danger is twisting the key itself, damaging accuracy. Like manual torque wrenches, they are tools to be extra careful with.🤜🤛
I always used impact extensions any critical tork stuff . Cool stuff You proved what I said for 40 years
Makes zero difference.
At 20 seconds into the video my answer is no, as long as you are using them correctly, meaning keeping everything at right angles. If your angle is off the torque will change, but not a lot. Let's see if I'm right. I guess I was right. What confuses me is how does the wrench (ratchet) measure angle without a reference on something that doesn't move. It doesn't seem possible to me, but then again I've never seen one.
Awesome video! Love your content it helps motivate me to produce good videos that people need to watch
Interesting technical video. My use of tools lately mostly are limited to drivers no larger than 5 millimeters and smaller for radio control gliders.
I knew it... all theses years of people saying to add more🤣 thanks bro
KNOWLEDGEABLE Adept Ape
Thanks for sharing what you know with us have a great Weekend with all your family around you
KNOWLEDGEABLE Adept Ape
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
What a fun video to watch. thanks
Back when torque tube's became available at our tire shop, they were very accurate with an impact. The last thing you want is loose lug nuts or over tightened stripped out studs.
Very interesting and educational lol I know some do believe using a extension messes with torque setting well now we know
Nice video, thanks. Stay safe and healthy.
The difference in applied torque with and without extensions is not apparent in essentially static situations using hand tools. The difference is in the use of impact tools, as the hammer blows are absorbed by the "torsion spring" effect of the extension plus socket vs just the socket... Torque wrenches are typically off about 5% in statistical analysis. the "Torque limiting extensions" are essentially tuned springs that absorb the impact energy and only deliver a torque range on the fastener... Would be interesting to have a channel like smarter every day catch this on high speed cameras...
I love it when people run engines that are consuming coolant, "we couldn't find the leak, using a gallon a day". Yeah its going in your crank case. MTU EGR coolers are nitorious for failing.
Interesting video, a viewer recommended it. I watch your videos every so often because I work on C13 and C18s for work, must have missed this one.
Thanks!
I called and talked to engineers at snap on once because I needed over 3 foot of extension to torque a flange on a pipe at work and they said even at that length there would be minimal change. It's very interesting between the difference in the digital torque wrenches. Where I work we have a multi thousand dollar piece of equipment to verify in house calibration of torque wrenches. The clickies will always be more accurate than the digitals.
The tech angles and digitals are definitely a game changer and have their places.
Hi very informative and helpful video
Interesting! I have to use a 3" extension to torque the lugs on my camper, I really didn't think it would change that much. (SnapOn torque wench) My local dealer has a tester on the truck to do pretty much what you Delco unit does. Going to get him to check it! Thanks for the video's you put out! I don't work on diesels but have learned quite a bit from your video's.
Great test, all that time I have tried not to use extensions whilst torquing stuff down. 🙃
Great video
For work I have to torque duel drive axle tires with a 13'' extension on a 3/4'' drive torque wrench to 500 ft lb, doing the same torque to the steer axles with out the 13'' extension, It feels the same but I don't have to push as long. I believe torquing with extensions doesn't change torque values. it will however change how far it has to be torqued due to the extension twisting.
yep, won this bet years ago ,,,thanks
Great test. thanks
I have the Snap On 24" long extension that's 1/2" drive but 3/8" on the socket end I have to use to access the hystat pump mounting bolts in CAT skid steers. They're supposed to be torqued to 190-ish and when loosening or tightening I can defitnitely feel it twisting. Due to the oddball angle and having to use a torque adapter, I know the reading would be sqewed but would be interesting to see what the loss is.
I’d love to see the colored impact extensions that are used for torquing wheels tested this way
There's more videos on the torque test channel. They have a couple videos about those torque sticks. In summary, they're designed for older air impacts that hit slower, they're not accurate with newer impacts that hit faster.
And to add what Mark said, they don't do anything with ratchets and torque wrenches, they only work on impacts
And to add a bit more since a torque wrench applies a static torque, any torsional deflection won’t impact the reading since it’s the applied torque that is causing the deflection to begin with. It’s really the same as a spring in your suspension in that the weight just compresses he spring, except here the extension is acting as a torsional spring instead.
That’s what I was thinking….we all know that there’s huge differences in how hard various impacts will hit . So how can them torque sticks be accurate?
I was working in a tire shop when we got the torque stick sockets, took about 10 minutes to ugga dugga the first lot of wheel nuts on and check with a torque wrench, if I remember right we had to use our rattle gun on setting 3 to get the rated torque from the sticks
Torque is twisting" effort" whether the extension twists or not that is why I was confused with the torque limiting extensions for lug nuts and how they work
Those torque limiting extensions *ONLY* work with an impact gun and will not work when torqueing by hand. They are made from spring steel and will twist to absorb the impact from your impact gun at a calibrated torque. I personally wouldn't rely on them to accurately fasten lug nuts. I always run the lugs down with the gun and then use a torque wrench it to finish it off.
Edit: Tests have shown that impact rate changes the accuracy of the extension. Slower the better. You need to give the steel time to flex and return to original position, if the gun hammers too fast it can overcome the extension and keep turning the fastener.
Because time is a component of the calculation.
I have that exact AC Delco tool but be careful with it. On mine, the case cracked and the apparatus started to come out. I'm gonna get a new one though and just be more careful.
Liked the practicality of this video. Now can I throw this curve ball out to you Josh ( incidently the youngest on my eleven offspring is named Josh 🙋♂️), what is the effect on torque with offsets like claw foots etc. So if it's not to much of an ask could you do a similar video on that as well as the situation were one has a let's say a head bolt were you are re-tourquing, is it better to back off then torque up at a constant rate rather than try to snap the bolt from the static. If I say thanks mate you will know were I reside and as for my prolification of children before any smart quips, the 2 oldest sons between them run 12 kenworths gross loaded at 130 ton on cattle and bulk grain there's 2 qualified refrigeration techs 1 electrician 2 farm managers 1 physiotherapist 2 hospital dept managers and 1 farm supplies owner. Now with out the way just back to torque wrench accuracy if you go to Rawzes channel ( Cummins) you will see that the actual injector settings are done on a very precise torque wrench setting. Sorry for the spoiler and talking Cummins but some times accuracy is absolute. Thanks mate from Perth West Australia.
Great video 👍
Pretty good demonstration which I knew the answer years ago. However torque angle at the torque wrench is affected by extensions (longer ones) So it was refreshing to see you mark the socket and base/non movable component to verify. Another trick I use when I have to "ratchet" several times is to know the ratchet tooth count. By knowing the tooth count, the angle you desire and simple math (remember there are only 360 degrees to come to a complete turn) you can just count the clicks and by using a reference point will achieve the desired angle. Funny thing is most all ratchets use an easily divisible number of teeth and the torque angle specified by MFG's take this into account when they specify a particular angle. The critical part is the initial torque value before doing the angle torque. If you muff up the initial torque then your final bolt stretch from torque angle will be off. Very high quality fasteners will have a dimple at each end (dimple in the center of the head and at the end of the bolt) Using a bolt stretch gauge is then used to measure the bolt stretch.
Now at some point some one is going to bring up torque sticks which operate in an entirely different way. Those are based on the "elasticity" of the metal alloy and it's diameter/length. The margin of error is higher with torque sticks but typically within the vehicle MFG's allowable margin. One thing to consider about using extensions is keeping it in line with the fastener and a bent extension is quite like a bolt that has been torqued to yield. The accuracy will be off compared to a non over torqued extension. As for using torque sticks, most are designed to operated with an impact that operates at a given torque range. If you use a torque stick rated at say 50ft.lb designed to be used on an impact not to exceed 450 ft.lb and use it on a long throw inch drive impact rated at 1200 ft.lb you do not want to have any body parts in the way due to potential shattering of the stick (seen that happen a few time) For those of you who are considering or use torque sticks, take a paint marker and draw a line down the length of it, you'll know when you have exceeded it's torsional strength. For those of you who like using power tools for as much as possible, take a little time and learn the torque limits of your various extensions and note them. I have a ton if 1/4" through 3/8" extension with lengths up to 4 ft that I have worked out their torque range. Handy when you have a tone of fasteners to do, need to bring something bolted down into place evenly and want to knock them out quickly to an initial value before bringing out the torque wrench
that was super useful man good shit never thought to count the ratchet teeth 360/80 all I need to remember
360 degrees to come to a complete revolution-
I would really like to see you repeat this type of test using both a impact style universal joint as well as the regular hand tool style universal. Testing when its straight to get the base number and then without resetting the torque wrench keep angling the ujoint more and more with repeated tests. It will be hard to gauge the angle the ujoint is at so that will be a constant hard to duplicate but I believe some really wildly inaccurate readings will occur as in far lower then the spec the torque wrench is set at the further the angle is increased, especially for the old traditional ujoint that completely binds up at some point in its angle but will see how far off the ball style joint becomes within its angle of degree travel from straight as well. Since I don't have the torque tool myself I can't test my theory but your able to and hey, it gives a very insightful lesson to us all in the process.
The delivered torque value will change as you change the angle. Torque wrenchs are calibrated to deliver the set torque based on a measurement from the center of the drive end to a set point on the handle. An extension held at a perfect 90 under the head of the torque wrench doe not change that measurement. If you use an universal, it will change that measurement and will change the delivered torque.
I think the only time a torque value would be "off" from the setting would be using something such as a crowfoot wrench, and not having it perpendicular (90*) to the handle, resulting in a different fulcrum point/lever length that the torque wrench is exerting on the fastener.
Commenting on the videos for the algorithm is a good idea to get a new one for the algorithm
Only time you lose torque while using extensions, is when you use an impact driver. The slop between the hammer and slop in the drives drops the torque
Nope. Time is a component of the calculation. Reduce the duration torque is applied... you reduce the torque. Crazy...
Thanks for this. I knew lengthening in-line with the wrench would alter the torque, but wasn't sure about lengthening perpendicular to the wrench. Now I can rest easy!
I wonder how the troque changes when you have to use an Universal joint Adapter. I think you loose torque the worst the Angel gets. But somtimes i feel like more force spend, to exceed the torque. Its somtimes scray because the bolts always feel very squischi.
I hear extensions and wobble sockets reduce the effectiveness of impacts. That would be an interesting experiment.
If you add enough extension length, could require several feet, eventually the wind up required to load the extensions to the desired torque will take long enough that if you jerk the torque tool to get a quick click out of it you will not have transferred the energy all the way through the extension chain. On cam over torque tools it is easier for this to happen. If enough time is allowed for any length of extension to fully load up assuming the yield strength is never achieved you can always transfer the desired amount of torque!
I was always talk never to double click a torque wrench or snatch on it slow steady pull
I have the same adapter and I was doing my own experiments before I use it on the bolts of my motorcycle and the result is that there is no difference except if you change the angle like using a crowfoot at different angle of 90 degrees as it should be.
I have a question that has zero to do with this video. I was driving and my turbo air cooler clamp blew out on me I drove my semi for about 15 mile’s ended up getting a temporary clamp and replaced when I got home with high pressure clamps. Got my truck back on the road and noticed it was running through fuel which it has never done before. Wanting to know what is a remedy or what could have gone wrong
What if the adapter is at the wrench end of the extension instead of the socket end? Will you still get an accurate reading? Many times, I can't get the adapter close to the socket because there isn't enough room.
How’s the best way to check the torque on a driveshaft bolts?
Interesting. I've had bolts my impact wouldnt break loose before and when I dumped the extension off it backed them out. I guess that was strictly related to the movement in the extension. I'd say I got lucky but its happened multiple times.
Yes, very different animal with an impact wrench. That is more of a hammering than torquing, so a lot of the "impact" can be lost in the connections and twisting of the extension I believe.
How do you know that the digital tool is accurate? I'd have to look it up because my memory isn't reliable but wouldn't a better way to determine accuracy if a torque wrench be to have a. 90° extension and a. Footlong extension and hang the amount of weight that you're wanting to verify on the wrench in. (20 lb if you're trying to verify 20-ft lb on the wrench)?
But it does affect a air impact gun to deliver impact blows as shown on the torque channel
For more accuracy use a tube over the extensions to prevent your hand from causing discrepancy. Also there shouldn't be any difference because it is about rotation not deflection.
I’m confused on how you fixed your rear windows lol. Was everything okay, just the switches needed to be cleaned?
Every torque wrench I've purchased in the manual says that extensions do not matter only offsets
Newton’s third law. Generally ok using extensions. Almost all extensions are made off tool steel, they won’t deflect, instead they snap. Torque sticks are made of spring steel, they flex and allow a impact gun to ratchet. They definitely would affect torque value on a wrench.
I'd be interested in how much those crows foot type extensions affect torque. See people using them with a torque wrench.
The Norbar Torque Wrench Extension Calculator for iOS
Depends how you use them. Straight ahead yeah they change the lever length and so the torque. 90* to the torque wrench and it doesn't affect the lever length and doesn't change the torque.
There's definitely twist in an extension but it's still going to deliver the required torque if the torque wrench pops
I don't think that's right
The click from the torque wrench is a jump on the digital. That click is overloading that digital just buy a little bit
The Norbar Torque Wrench Extension Calculator for iOS is a free app-
always seemed harder to torque something when you have 24" of extension and doing 250ftlbs. trying to keep it straight and then I think you've gotta force all that extra twist. cool video
HI JOSH DO YOU HAVE YOUR OWN SHOP NOW ??
Nice! How much do I torque an inner nut on a meritor steer axle? A mfs18133ANN1 steer axle.
To manufacture specs.
I would call them Monday and find out.
No but on an impact you lose the hammering if that makes any sense you lose the hammering to break the bolts loose
The only mystery is why some people expect torque to change depending on the axial extension.
I was just watching another video of yours 😭😭🤣
Thanks for watching.
Great experiment! Thanks for taking the time to test the theory. Professor Ape is in the house!
Unless you are reaching the point of plastic deformation the torque will not change
Never seen a plastic extension.
“NO WEAKNESS, ONLY WRENCHES” 🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧
We did this back in the 80's. I won $50.00 betting with the moron. One of the idiots I worked with walked by while I was torquing the injector hold downs on an 8.2 Detroit and Said "you know that extension changes the torque. I LOL'd at him. I was using a 12" 1/4 drive extension so I wouldn't be bending over as much (engine was on the floor). Before it was all over with, the entire shop had stopped what they were doing including the foreman and the service manager. We had stretched extensions across 2 bays and had guys holding them up. It does not change at all
Not going to change regardless of the extension length. Ten-foot extension, same torque.
The extensions will twist but the torque won't change
Holding the extension to keep it straight will introduce side loading and change the reading slightly.
Now, extensions on big impacts will absorb energy and reduce the impulse torque driven by the impact wrench.
Actually it is changing, it's flexing till the torque wrench snaps and it's releasing the pent up energy of the flex.
Nope... nice try... but still a fail.
Doesn't matter if the extension is a coil spring that rotates 720 degrees under load, the static torque applied to one side will apply to the other side exactly the same, assuming straight. If you're talking about the vice flexing in the degrees of rotation test, yes, the vice is flexing too much and that is the biggest error in the measurement.
If someone twists your arm, you’re going to move in reaction that force. As they twist it more, your reaction will reflect. That being said your analysis is incorrect. The torque is identical when using extensions at a right angle. Went to college to learn about these things.
😎👍
Difference can only be seen in impact wrenches and drivers
How often do you calibrate torque wrenches?
It's supposed to be once a year or like five thousand clicks on most of them. I would do that or whatever the manual for the tool says if there is one.
Once a year is a good rule.
The day after I found my neighbor using mine as a breaker bar and had a pipe on the handle! Raaarrr
Says right on the calibration sticker and certification document.
Before watching this video, I would say that the physics shows the torque DOES change, but not enough to notice, based on the materials of the extension. Soft metals will absorb more torque, but no useable material will show measurable torque reduction at the levels used by hand.
Now, let's see what the video shows...
YAY SCIENCE!
The only time full torque wouldn't be delivered with a extension is if you used an impact wrench
Extentions have no effect on the tools output, at the head or placed over the handle to lengthen it as shown in this short video. ruclips.net/video/mk95F0hHS3U/видео.htmlsi=vdS4hI08-O6Tjshk
where is the handle applied force numbers and angler deflection numbers and dont touch the tool to prevent deflection, unless proper testing is not a concern. the whole idea that your cant pull hard enough to compensate is not the question.
Sure do. Here we go. I was taught not to use them
You were taught not to use extensions with a torque wrench? You were taught wrong then if that's what you're saying
Resonance in the circuit will cause overs, real imaginary, magic, its there. Does it matter with a manual device, no. Why, its just that a resonant wave. With an impact, its sample rate and inability to to to use reliably. Accurate without an analog position is impossible, hence the **/¿+90deg is used in specs, it is an absolute that can be acquired no other way than material composition AND machining accuracy BOTH being with in acceptable parameters.
Debunked years ago.
You're measuring more of a static load, I've never heard anyone say extensions loose anything in this configuration, they'd have to be an idiot to think that. It's when they're used with an impact and the flex absorbs some of the torque.
That thing will blow up before 250 ft lbs its already about to let go at 190
Never understood people who claim extensions decreases torque. I won’t engage in the discussion with these people. Like arguing with flat earthers.
It's just one of those urban legends that will never die, much like "engines need backpressure" or "it's illegal to have a trailer ball mount in your receiver hitch when you're not pulling a trailer."
I didn't think extensions changed anything really.
I would charge him an extra $1,000 just in cleanup you want to keep running your engine it's going to cost you extra money in the end not only for the parts that you screwed up but anything that is salvageable you're going to have to pay for me to clean it some people have more money than brains
newton's third law