Trying to access the WCDH in the USA required a Byzantine subscription stack….i didn’t bother. Ed Bull, WYN tv and other vlogs did the trick instead (and bunch better too)
UCI is dead Hardline is the series we all want to see. I don’t pay for a subscription that is useless other than for one race a week. Corporate greed kills World Cup. The sports not dead. We all still love to see you guys ride
@@TheDavid1975 100% agree and all those dumb neon green arrows everywhere on course. Looks like trash. MTB about the woods. Why do we have to make it look less and less like woods every time. Hardline is where it is at
Good take. I reckon making it harder for privateers to compete will definitely be a detriment the sport. Also, the Semi-Finals round seems to be not well received by most.
Privateers shouldnt race elite They should race local-> regional-> national-> continental-> world cup The grassroots are dying because riders can literally pay to race world cup It needs a pathway
I think as mountain bikers we all felt we had some ownership of our sport. Redbull did a good job and kind of respected that. Now its been made clear by ESO that they own it and will do what they want with it so an apathy from the mountain bike community is creeping in. Your mtb random fan is not giving up his Sunday ride to pay to watch others ride and your hardcore fans are being turned off by all the changes and lets face it "elitism" that doesn't sit well with the general personality tpyes who mtb. Either way fans always win in the long run. We are the consumer and any business that doesn't listen to the consumer is a dead business.
You're 100% correct. Ownership is a big thing in mtb racing. The fan base isn't some detached couch potatoes. It's predominantly active riders and changing the rules so drastically doesn't sit well with us. The big thing in mtb is that we all were doing the same thing the pros did, on a worse skill level. Now they're turning the top level of the sport into a spectacle for viewers and in the process are detaching it completely from the base of the sport.
The top 5 podium is simply to create further competition. Only 3 spots, you really gotta want it so are likely to get the best out of the riders. This equals more entertaining races. This is the focus for them.
There was a post last year that a German TV station showed that viewer retention was very low. Viewership might be up because of accidental viewing, watching something before or after DH racing and ending up watching a bit of DH. That doesn't do much for the sport.
I used to love watching DH with Warner commentary,not sure what’s going on these days😢 if they had a 16 race series like other world championships ide pay a subscription fee oh with Warner commentary of course 🎉
Not having protected riders is a good idea, but qualies have to be televised. Someone like Bruni not being in the finals is fine, but we have to see at least one ride.
Totally agree re: the feeder series! It is a LOT of work for very little reward. We see it all the time with local GE and DH series. Someone puts their hand up to give it a crack. It lasts one, maybe two years, and they give it away in frustration. I don't blame them one single bit. Kudos for even giving it a go. One of the biggest problems is that AusCycling give race promoters/organisers fuck all help in organising and promoting these things. I imagine it is much the same everywhere, and I don't see it changing. All national/international organisations give only lip service to grassroots, and put all of their real focus on the top end of town.
Here speaks the words of experience. I still think we should have 40 male riders and 20 females in Elite finals. The depth of talent coming through from juniors in both categories is awesome and needs to be inclusive in elites going forwards 🤘❤️🌈🕊️🌏
Wish the riders would just tell the organisers that if you dont listen to the changes that riders and fans want then you wont have an event to even broadcast. Semi finals is nonsense, does absolutely nothing for the sport. Also the price for a subscription to get sub par media coverage compared to redbull days is not something the majority of fans would entertain paying for.
Down hill and enduro is being taken down, by too many entities taking away from the sports and not giving any thing back, could name names, but you get the point! IT Has comes to the point where riders need to start taking the sport back to where it used to be?
In alpine skiing there is a first and second run. Best overall time from both runs wins the race. Top 30 from the first run race for the win in the second run an get WC points. A well proven format. I don’t see why this would not work in MTB DH. And if there are to many people showing up to a race I guess raising the necessary points to a level where 60-80 racers can enter the WC would do the trick.
I think they are on the way to build a "protect" group of 30 riders or so who can stay at the top for many years. No possibility for building the dream story from the low to the top.
Clearly the riders Union that stated they were going to do something have pussied out, otherwise they would have taken some kind of action over the last couple years.
@@DMs.withDEAN in a way yes. But, nearly every other sports doesn’t even organize enough to get a PR out threatening to take action. I would argue that they got it off the ground but failed to sack up and take any action…so they pussied out.
Im caring less and less about the UCI European cup.. Hardline, crankworx, even the monster series are killing it though.. Calling yourself a world cup and existing on one continent, so goofy.. "but no if we cut it down to 20 people, then everyone will watch".. hearing the uci wants to be like F1 is the dumbest shit ever.. they have so much more money, actually go all over the world and have legitimate safety reasons to limit the field... it's so fucking stupid the ones making the decisions on this are so far removed from the people that watch..
After watching most races for the past 5 years, this year I haven't watched one. I won't pay for a subscription for something that happens less than once a week through the season. I miss watching, but I can't pay, so the sport has lost a fan.
I'm a kiwi and there's free streams out there and if it works here it should work where you are. Check out CGPT with the right prompting and you are back to watching dh for free ⛳
@@DMs.withDEANnah its not fair at all. Football fans buy a jersey for £90 and pay big money for tickets and travel all over the country and world to watch their teams and mtb fans cry about £60 a year or whatever
@@lozzaridesemtb I'm sorry, but I literally don't have the money to spend. I don't pay subscription services for anything, and this was one thing I could watch because of that.
Top 5 podium, men and women should have equal numbers in the final and it should be minimum 40 riders, no semi final rubbish just the last chance quali! Top 30 qualify then the next 30 qualify again for 10 spots! Trouble is the sport is governed by TV and sponsors🤷🏼♂️ I don’t watch the official coverage they can stick it✌🏻 I support Moi Moi, Wynn, Gas to Vlog, BK, Danny and all the other riders who vlog the races🤜🏻💥🤛🏻 If Redbull did a Hardline series that would take over the world cups👍🏻
LOL The Leaked photos--somebody put it out for a reason. I have a feeling that racing is dead more people are going to start putting out edits racing will become almost 2nd to edit creation. I really dont watch many downhill events unless it's urban downhill racing. I think the one number idea is really good racers kits change so often I lose the riders I want to watch (columbians) EVERY motocross guy knows 499 is travis no matter what he is wearing you know the number. Which brings me to a question I have --- have you considered putting out edits or are you just done looking to grow yourself in other ways? I think you could put out a legit edit that a LOT of people will watch.
Personally, I think with all these changes being brought into all aspects of MTB by WBD and UCI, riders and spectators are going to start leaving and concentrate on other venues like Hardline and Crankworks. Maybe Redbull, will capitalise on this and create their own race format. Either way, the sport is slowly being eroded by greedy corporations.
Unlike road cycling, the mountain biking community really don't care that much about racing. Most regular road cyclists will watch the Tour, and numerous other races during the year, but mountain bike racing is just a fraction.
@@lozzaridesemtb I politely disagree. I find Warner become a parody, and was starting to grate. And time is what people are much tighter on than money.
-The top 10 should only be protected going into only the next race, and reset for the following year. If you are consistent you get rewarded. -Top 10 from previous year get fixed numbers 1-10 or pick something that suits them. Like Moto current #1 gets a red plate background. Junior leader has a green background. - Qualifying and LCQ on Friday or Saturday, Race on Sunday. -The podium should be 5 it makes for a better story. -It should be 50 spots for riders, and 10 protected from the last race. It ends up being 60 in theory but that would account for a weather event effecting the top 10. -Out of the 50, 5 are LCQ positions. - More variations in track styles, not every track needs a motorway. - More races in more parts of the world, UCI needs to stop hating DH. -
@@DMs.withDEAN the sport was better from the committed fan point of view when there was more people, maybe a few races had to many like the ones with 300 trying to qualify but 30 or 50 is too little. I know the track gets beat with that much traffic but complaining about a rough DH track is a sad state of affairs. The finest suspension the world has ever had, better this year than the last and it gets smoother and smother.
I only watch Cathro on Pinkbike and rider edits and I haven't watched enduro for ages , corporate greed from the organisers and the UCI are killing the sport. Hardline and the freeride events are far better . They seem to be on a mission to push privateers out of the sport too. Red bull should build their own DH series and directly cut out the UCI.
UCI changes? Oh them, they are the reason I refuse to watch UCI and only religiously follow every rider on YT + social medial? They have no sympathy for riders, one of the most challenging sports there is. If you look MTB in essence, we love challenge AND we cheer for everyone ~ thus 5 podium stand is a must. Semis are so stupid, a lot of riders don't even have time to fix mechanical or eat. Can we address how stupid the points are? People can qualify be top of the top and still earn zero points. It's not a mystery that wrong people are on the top we need more riders on the board and more protests. They already slowly but intentionally destroyed enduro, I don't want to see that bunch of greedy people can ruin such an amazing sport. Bruni's argument was yeah trails get beaten up and he wanted less riders for quite some time. I don't agree with Bruni, beaten trails force you to pick your lines, smarter lines. We need more people to race on the top level for progression and should not shrink it down. One of our national riders doesn't race local, because there is no challenge. We need to allow them.
Oh and lets not forget, everything we did watched with RedBull was free and broadcasted fully. Now with WB greed they don't broadcast everything on top of being behind the paywall and I'm sure viewership went up just because people lurk on the TV and stay for the sport. We need to allow more companies to have rights, I'm so over the monopoly.
Dean, this is the most considered summary I’ve heard - I feel better able to think this through now. And just a shout out to you as well 🎉 You’re growing really fast now and it’s a privilege to be along for the ride, so thank you. Not that for one moment I would recommend this for your own opportunities, but if you were to find yourself working on behalf of a pro-riders’ Union representing them at the table, I for one would know things would start looking up. Your skills and confidence now as a public speaker plus your knowledge as a rider and the respect with which you are held by the riders make you ideal. So, whoever it ends up being, I hope they seek your advice. BK’s an obvious choice once he’s retired from UCI racing: I just think he has too much on his plate just now to add this in a way that wouldn’t call out a certain lack of patience with so many responsibilities. But when he does retire, he’d be another advocate who could deliver that role. Peaty, Aaron and Greg also come to mind, but again as with all the great talent, you included, they’re all in demand from all and sundry and just don’t have space for this role. Anyway, without a more formal linked international feeder series (cf F2 and F3) it’s utter madness to reduce rider entries for the medium and long term survival of International DH and - astonishingly - enduro. RBHW, RBHA, RBR and CrankWorks etc are a parallel form of sporting competition and their equivalent, especially in importance, can also be seen in motorsport (bikes and cars) 🎉🎉🎉🎉
e-ERD is dumb with World Cup racing and world champs. Stop thinking about it like you know what an e-bike is. Think about from zero knowledge. Cycling is human powered, professional cyclist are peak fitness, so how do you reconcile that with having a motor, it doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean that e-bikes and e-bike racing shouldn't exist, professional cycling should remain 100% human powered, without the sideshow crossover that is some other federations problem. It's like saying nascar should have a taxi cab class because they both have a driver and 4 wheels.
Trying to access the WCDH in the USA required a Byzantine subscription stack….i didn’t bother. Ed Bull, WYN tv and other vlogs did the trick instead (and bunch better too)
UCI is dead Hardline is the series we all want to see. I don’t pay for a subscription that is useless other than for one race a week. Corporate greed kills World Cup. The sports not dead. We all still love to see you guys ride
hardline are looking at rounds in norway and ireland too.
I paid for Stan in Australia and that was so disappointing. No extra content no Junior racing no proper replays. What a rip off
@@TheDavid1975 100% agree and all those dumb neon green arrows everywhere on course. Looks like trash. MTB about the woods. Why do we have to make it look less and less like woods every time. Hardline is where it is at
Good take.
I reckon making it harder for privateers to compete will definitely be a detriment the sport.
Also, the Semi-Finals round seems to be not well received by most.
I don’t think will feel the affect for at least another 5 years.
Not it for sure
@@DMs.withDEAN this is the logic, by the time the effect happens it will be super detrimental. Then the take will be "I guess nobody cares about dh"
Privateers shouldnt race elite
They should race local-> regional-> national-> continental-> world cup
The grassroots are dying because riders can literally pay to race world cup
It needs a pathway
I think as mountain bikers we all felt we had some ownership of our sport. Redbull did a good job and kind of respected that.
Now its been made clear by ESO that they own it and will do what they want with it so an apathy from the mountain bike community is creeping in. Your mtb random fan is not giving up his Sunday ride to pay to watch others ride and your hardcore fans are being turned off by all the changes and lets face it "elitism" that doesn't sit well with the general personality tpyes who mtb.
Either way fans always win in the long run. We are the consumer and any business that doesn't listen to the consumer is a dead business.
You're 100% correct. Ownership is a big thing in mtb racing. The fan base isn't some detached couch potatoes. It's predominantly active riders and changing the rules so drastically doesn't sit well with us.
The big thing in mtb is that we all were doing the same thing the pros did, on a worse skill level. Now they're turning the top level of the sport into a spectacle for viewers and in the process are detaching it completely from the base of the sport.
Without elitism the sport is just a hobby
@@lozzaridesemtb that's in itself correct but you've missed the point by a mile
No WCDH in the USA??? Why alienate the biggest bike market in the world?
It's up to the venue to host a race
The top 5 podium is simply to create further competition. Only 3 spots, you really gotta want it so are likely to get the best out of the riders. This equals more entertaining races. This is the focus for them.
There was a post last year that a German TV station showed that viewer retention was very low. Viewership might be up because of accidental viewing, watching something before or after DH racing and ending up watching a bit of DH. That doesn't do much for the sport.
That’s a really good point
I used to love watching DH with Warner commentary,not sure what’s going on these days😢 if they had a 16 race series like other world championships ide pay a subscription fee oh with Warner commentary of course 🎉
It’s change a lot and doesn’t have the same feel
Not having protected riders is a good idea, but qualies have to be televised. Someone like Bruni not being in the finals is fine, but we have to see at least one ride.
I like that, it all builds a story, give the top guys and girls a LCQ
Totally agree re: the feeder series!
It is a LOT of work for very little reward. We see it all the time with local GE and DH series. Someone puts their hand up to give it a crack. It lasts one, maybe two years, and they give it away in frustration. I don't blame them one single bit. Kudos for even giving it a go.
One of the biggest problems is that AusCycling give race promoters/organisers fuck all help in organising and promoting these things. I imagine it is much the same everywhere, and I don't see it changing. All national/international organisations give only lip service to grassroots, and put all of their real focus on the top end of town.
Here speaks the words of experience. I still think we should have 40 male riders and 20 females in Elite finals. The depth of talent coming through from juniors in both categories is awesome and needs to be inclusive in elites going forwards 🤘❤️🌈🕊️🌏
I agree 100%
Wish the riders would just tell the organisers that if you dont listen to the changes that riders and fans want then you wont have an event to even broadcast. Semi finals is nonsense, does absolutely nothing for the sport. Also the price for a subscription to get sub par media coverage compared to redbull days is not something the majority of fans would entertain paying for.
Down hill and enduro is being taken down, by too many entities taking away from the sports and not giving any thing back, could name names, but you get the point!
IT Has comes to the point where riders need to start taking the sport back to where it used to be?
In alpine skiing there is a first and second run. Best overall time from both runs wins the race. Top 30 from the first run race for the win in the second run an get WC points. A well proven format. I don’t see why this would not work in MTB DH.
And if there are to many people showing up to a race I guess raising the necessary points to a level where 60-80 racers can enter the WC would do the trick.
I think they are on the way to build a "protect" group of 30 riders or so who can stay at the top for many years. No possibility for building the dream story from the low to the top.
US downhill is going to thrive in the shortcomings of the UCI.
Might need to come out of retirement for that
@@DMs.withDEAN Dean, did you ride a DH Bike since your accident? Do you ride any mtb at all these days?
Clearly the riders Union that stated they were going to do something have pussied out, otherwise they would have taken some kind of action over the last couple years.
It never got off the ground..
@@DMs.withDEAN in a way yes. But, nearly every other sports doesn’t even organize enough to get a PR out threatening to take action. I would argue that they got it off the ground but failed to sack up and take any action…so they pussied out.
Individuals and their socials and hardline / and racers are deep riders are some of the best
Tho the tracks are getting faster one line
Thanks Deano. Such good points you have bought forward. We need you on the board… I think we can agree uci have nearly killed this sport..😢
Im caring less and less about the UCI European cup.. Hardline, crankworx, even the monster series are killing it though.. Calling yourself a world cup and existing on one continent, so goofy.. "but no if we cut it down to 20 people, then everyone will watch".. hearing the uci wants to be like F1 is the dumbest shit ever.. they have so much more money, actually go all over the world and have legitimate safety reasons to limit the field... it's so fucking stupid the ones making the decisions on this are so far removed from the people that watch..
Couldn’t agree more! Feel the sports dying slowly
Yup that's the issue - hard to keep track when it's expensive to watch.
Is it though? Try buying an f1 or sky sports for a season
I got Stan to watch the racing, but for some reason the World Championship in Andorra wasn't on there or the Enduro
World champs always sells the rights separately
Andorra world champs was on sbs demand,bit the enduro world champs wasn't showen at all.
World champs were live on YT for free ⛳
After watching most races for the past 5 years, this year I haven't watched one. I won't pay for a subscription for something that happens less than once a week through the season. I miss watching, but I can't pay, so the sport has lost a fan.
I'm a kiwi and there's free streams out there and if it works here it should work where you are. Check out CGPT with the right prompting and you are back to watching dh for free ⛳
Fair call
So you wont support your sport with what every sport needs to survive…money… gotcha
@@DMs.withDEANnah its not fair at all. Football fans buy a jersey for £90 and pay big money for tickets and travel all over the country and world to watch their teams and mtb fans cry about £60 a year or whatever
@@lozzaridesemtb I'm sorry, but I literally don't have the money to spend. I don't pay subscription services for anything, and this was one thing I could watch because of that.
Top 5 podium, men and women should have equal numbers in the final and it should be minimum 40 riders, no semi final rubbish just the last chance quali! Top 30 qualify then the next 30 qualify again for 10 spots! Trouble is the sport is governed by TV and sponsors🤷🏼♂️ I don’t watch the official coverage they can stick it✌🏻 I support Moi Moi, Wynn, Gas to Vlog, BK, Danny and all the other riders who vlog the races🤜🏻💥🤛🏻 If Redbull did a Hardline series that would take over the world cups👍🏻
No Warner, No interest. Warner IS DH & DH is Warner
🙏🏽🙏🏽
LOL The Leaked photos--somebody put it out for a reason. I have a feeling that racing is dead more people are going to start putting out edits racing will become almost 2nd to edit creation. I really dont watch many downhill events unless it's urban downhill racing. I think the one number idea is really good racers kits change so often I lose the riders I want to watch (columbians) EVERY motocross guy knows 499 is travis no matter what he is wearing you know the number. Which brings me to a question I have --- have you considered putting out edits or are you just done looking to grow yourself in other ways? I think you could put out a legit edit that a LOT of people will watch.
Personally, I think with all these changes being brought into all aspects of MTB by WBD and UCI, riders and spectators are going to start leaving and concentrate on other venues like Hardline and Crankworks. Maybe Redbull, will capitalise on this and create their own race format. Either way, the sport is slowly being eroded by greedy corporations.
I see that for sure!
Unlike road cycling, the mountain biking community really don't care that much about racing. Most regular road cyclists will watch the Tour, and numerous other races during the year, but mountain bike racing is just a fraction.
Mtb community is so tight moneywise! They loved warner and that was it
I bet any money if eso had warner, they wouldnt have cared at all
@@lozzaridesemtb I politely disagree. I find Warner become a parody, and was starting to grate. And time is what people are much tighter on than money.
F1 of Cycling my arse, if you won every race this year your prize money would be about 25k before tax!
The presenters get paid more than that.
I feel that 😂
It would be cool if the bike companies got together and created their own "league" like the NFL or MLB or NBA.
Agree!
-The top 10 should only be protected going into only the next race, and reset for the following year. If you are consistent you get rewarded.
-Top 10 from previous year get fixed numbers 1-10 or pick something that suits them. Like Moto current #1 gets a red plate background. Junior leader has a green background.
- Qualifying and LCQ on Friday or Saturday, Race on Sunday.
-The podium should be 5 it makes for a better story.
-It should be 50 spots for riders, and 10 protected from the last race. It ends up being 60 in theory but that would account for a weather event effecting the top 10.
-Out of the 50, 5 are LCQ positions.
- More variations in track styles, not every track needs a motorway.
- More races in more parts of the world, UCI needs to stop hating DH.
-
I say let them all deal with trying to get in, but I get the sports needs it stars that are always in
@@DMs.withDEAN the sport was better from the committed fan point of view when there was more people, maybe a few races had to many like the ones with 300 trying to qualify but 30 or 50 is too little. I know the track gets beat with that much traffic but complaining about a rough DH track is a sad state of affairs. The finest suspension the world has ever had, better this year than the last and it gets smoother and smother.
I only watch Cathro on Pinkbike and rider edits and I haven't watched enduro for ages , corporate greed from the organisers and the UCI are killing the sport.
Hardline and the freeride events are far better .
They seem to be on a mission to push privateers out of the sport too.
Red bull should build their own DH series and directly cut out the UCI.
If you’d tried, you’d know you can’t watch Enduro. 😂
UCI changes? Oh them, they are the reason I refuse to watch UCI and only religiously follow every rider on YT + social medial? They have no sympathy for riders, one of the most challenging sports there is. If you look MTB in essence, we love challenge AND we cheer for everyone ~ thus 5 podium stand is a must. Semis are so stupid, a lot of riders don't even have time to fix mechanical or eat. Can we address how stupid the points are? People can qualify be top of the top and still earn zero points. It's not a mystery that wrong people are on the top we need more riders on the board and more protests. They already slowly but intentionally destroyed enduro, I don't want to see that bunch of greedy people can ruin such an amazing sport.
Bruni's argument was yeah trails get beaten up and he wanted less riders for quite some time. I don't agree with Bruni, beaten trails force you to pick your lines, smarter lines. We need more people to race on the top level for progression and should not shrink it down. One of our national riders doesn't race local, because there is no challenge. We need to allow them.
Oh and lets not forget, everything we did watched with RedBull was free and broadcasted fully. Now with WB greed they don't broadcast everything on top of being behind the paywall and I'm sure viewership went up just because people lurk on the TV and stay for the sport. We need to allow more companies to have rights, I'm so over the monopoly.
WB started broadcasting Juniors, RB did not show them
@@AaronA_Aaronson0 WB is not broadcasting consistently nor men nor women finals on euro sport. That didn't happen just once, but many many times.
Downhill ist alive and enduro is getting better. No one needs E-Enduro to sell E-Bikes
Dean, this is the most considered summary I’ve heard - I feel better able to think this through now. And just a shout out to you as well 🎉 You’re growing really fast now and it’s a privilege to be along for the ride, so thank you. Not that for one moment I would recommend this for your own opportunities, but if you were to find yourself working on behalf of a pro-riders’ Union representing them at the table, I for one would know things would start looking up. Your skills and confidence now as a public speaker plus your knowledge as a rider and the respect with which you are held by the riders make you ideal. So, whoever it ends up being, I hope they seek your advice. BK’s an obvious choice once he’s retired from UCI racing: I just think he has too much on his plate just now to add this in a way that wouldn’t call out a certain lack of patience with so many responsibilities. But when he does retire, he’d be another advocate who could deliver that role. Peaty, Aaron and Greg also come to mind, but again as with all the great talent, you included, they’re all in demand from all and sundry and just don’t have space for this role. Anyway, without a more formal linked international feeder series (cf F2 and F3) it’s utter madness to reduce rider entries for the medium and long term survival of International DH and - astonishingly - enduro. RBHW, RBHA, RBR and CrankWorks etc are a parallel form of sporting competition and their equivalent, especially in importance, can also be seen in motorsport (bikes and cars) 🎉🎉🎉🎉
It’s something I’ve thought about but after dealing with the riders union last year I realised it’s to painful trying to steer a ship without sails
They need to Stop polishing mountain biking into a mainstream sport. Mountain bikers don’t want to be apart of pop culture
e-ERD is dumb with World Cup racing and world champs. Stop thinking about it like you know what an e-bike is. Think about from zero knowledge. Cycling is human powered, professional cyclist are peak fitness, so how do you reconcile that with having a motor, it doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean that e-bikes and e-bike racing shouldn't exist, professional cycling should remain 100% human powered, without the sideshow crossover that is some other federations problem. It's like saying nascar should have a taxi cab class because they both have a driver and 4 wheels.
Don’t agree fully but I do see your point
@@DMs.withDEAN what from your point of view is problematic? I'm genuinely curious.
Carkworx world tour and Red Bull Hardline for the win! GTFO if you're not here for the thrills and spills!
Brightest news is no more e enduro 😂