As a CFII, based on the radar I would have diverted without question. Poor decision making - between pilot and ATC, pilot gets sucked into rabbit hole 🤦♂️
XM is of no use navigating through a line of storms. Land somewhere, get a nice meal, wait it out. Tell the passengers you will get them there when the storms pass.
XM is great for strategic planning, observing trends and movement. If there is sufficient space between storms then the airborne radar is handy using the XM helps with shadowing. Nothing worse than going through some moderate rain just to be confronted with convective activity. Delay and live.
You ask what I would do? As a student pilot with intentions of getting instrument and commercial ratings I would have landed north FL, got some food and fuel and waited out the storm. I don't know what my future self with 2k hours would do, but I hope it would be the same.
And keep visual! I once filed IFR out of Paris, Tx. At that time there was no XM weather but it would not have changed anything. Before take off I saw that a line of thunderstorms was building on my cell phone app. As I took off and contacted ATC for flight following they ask if I wanted to pick up my clearance. I said no that if I couldn't stay visual it was time to land. Like you said most of these storms are fast movers and where they are depicted on the screen probably isn't where they are at. But the good part of that is that you can land and let the storm pass and be in good air afterwards. If it's real big try to find some cover or your plane may look like a golf ball after the hail hits.
Exactly what I said. We have landed at different airports due to weather. And we always make the best of it. There’s almost always some older pilots around telling stories, so we have enjoyable conversations, there’s always a small diner the most of the pilots go to, so we end up enjoying some good food, good conversation, and most of all we make it to our final destination without taking risk.
Never been in a storm, but I remember years ago flying my C210 in a central Australian summer and being pelted by hail from a massive storm 45 nautical miles way!! Nasty brutes.
Only been up in a small airplane once, it was a smooth and calm flight, there wasn't any weather concerns during the whole time, and I enjoyed myself, but I also understand how storms work, and would definitely NOT want to be in the air during anything like what they encountered. I know how powerful the updrafts and turbulence can get inside a storm, and even jumbo jets avoid them, so I'm glad you're still around to post this. I keep thinking of that female paraglider that got sucked up into a storm cell and survived it. I believe her altimeter recorded her at up over 39,000+ feet!
This is the third fatal air crash I know of, where the pilot thought his onboard XM weather radar was real-time. In fact, the weather displayed can be eight to fifteen minutes old. That misunderstanding of the system has killed a few pilots and their passengers, and more will likely die still. A tragic outcome.
Does anyone know how much an extra landing will cost? Of course you will rather pay that than die, but you would also not pay that if you think you can do without. Not only gas but also airport fees.
I’m an IFR rated pilot and fly fairly capable GA planes. This was an easy one to avoid. It’s called No Go. Why on earth some pilots think that penetrating weather like that is a good idea is beyond me. My rule is remain VMC when anywhere near convective weather. That may be an overly conservative attitude that keeps me on the ground more often but it will keep me more alive.
I saw a comment one time from a pilot with 10,000 hrs and relativity few hours of actual IMC. He was questioned in a job interview why the low actual and he replied, “That’s where the thunderstorms are.” He didn’t get the job, but I bet he is still alive today. Far too many macho pilots, many of them alive today due to dumb luck. I like your VMC rule around T-storms.
@@naps3386 in 100% GA for personal flights so if I can simply set ego and pride aside (not always easy if we are being honest) then we can avoid these situations. I build a “flex day” around every trip we take. We’ve went home early or late on more than one occasion.
This video is a stark reminder that even experienced pilots can fall victim to dangerous weather. The breakdown of the decisions made, highlighting the limitations of the onboard radar, really makes you think - would I have trusted those instruments? It's a chilling reminder to prioritize safety above all else when flying.
I've been in some green returns before that scared the crap out of me. Anything yellow, especially if it looks like if may be turning red soon and/or merging with other yellow, and I am running for cover. One nice thing about GA flying in the USA is that there is almost always an airport right below you somewhere. On many occasions I've made a decision to run for a nearest airport. Sometimes it makes for an uncomfortable wait on the ground. But at least I am on the ground. And then were are days when I wish I just stayed on the ground...
Learned as a student pilot that it is exhausting fighting weather. I was stuck in the Santa Ana winds in a beech tomahawk. Landed in Palm Springs, lunch and fuel, took off to FBO Riverside. Had to land in Banning to refuel. The cars on the freeway were twice my speed. My rollout in Banning was about 30’ before I popped off the ground. Never again. Banning was maybe 15 miles from Palm Springs.
This is a chilling reminder that even experienced pilots face tough decisions. The weather radar’s limitations make this tragedy a heartbreaking lesson for all aviators. RIP to those on board, and may we all learn from this to prioritize safety over all else. 🙏🛩
What a freakin shame. RIP to all onboard. With each tragedy there is much to learn. With the information the pilot had, I don’t feel he made a bad decision. Small planes around the world navigate in and around bad weather every day. Very sad what happened.
What a sad mishap. An experienced pilot with instrumentation that presented as an accurate. What could he do? What is so heart wrenching is to see the weather where flying straight would have meant a happy day, but turning right directly into a line of severe cells. If the pilot only had the correct radar, the outcome would have been OK. All these stories are sad but this story stands out. The airplane was very sweet. This is VERY sad.
Avoidance could have been better planned by suggesting an earlier departure time to the boss.. Storm activity in this area at this time is as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow.. an earlier start before temperatures begin to rise may well have given them a smooth ride all the way..
I've done a similar route in almost similar weather in an almost similar aircraft. Yes the airspace can be tricky to navigate due to all the MOAs, but I have deviated almost all the way to Jacksonville when coming down to Tampa. Florida thunderstorms can grow at an alarming rate, they're to be taken very seriously.
nothing fear more , just don't know, broke as I am and do mean broke , 100k wouldn't even make me stop and consider it, really wouldn't, and people pay to ride them , crazy
Here’s another tip for avoiding situations like this. Pilots unfortunately view a “No Go” in a situation like this as a failure of the mission as if it points out a lack of skill or “courage” (like that should be needed!!!). It could not be further from the truth. I challenge anyone to find a RUclips video highlighting a flight that didn’t happen and was delayed because of being conservative with ADM. Here’s my tactic when it comes to my GA travel with family and friends: delayed or altered travel dates are “steak nights”. My kids know this. If we are on a trip and the weather alters our original travel date the wife, kids, whoever gets to pick the restaurant and we eat like a king. This has been a long standing tradition. Although it’s not often we have eaten steak (or whatever they choose) more than once. This completely turns the disappointment of the schedule change into a little treat for them. The meal may be expensive but the incentive for the whole group to get a “bonus” if the schedule changes is priceless.
"Little holes," huh? In that crap _little holes_ become *NO* holes, in no time. So what would I have done differently? I wouldn't have flown into the pretty colors, just hoping things worked out. When you start trying to force it, you're just asking for trouble. If you ever find yourself asking, _"OMG, what should I do now?"_ Especially repeatedly, you've almost certainly bitten off more than you can chew. I'm guessing no pilot with any skill level could have made it through that. The _very_ experienced ones, however, wouldn't have tried. _"When to turn back......?"_ It didn't even necessarily have to be a case of turning back. If the (I believe) correct decision had been made they could have just stopped in the northern part of the state, maybe got something to eat, and then continued on. They may have gotten to their destination 2 or 3 hours late......but they would have gotten there.
Correct - we call them “Suckers Gaps” chances are by the time you get there it will have moved or closed. CB cells in close proximity have a nasty habit of merging to make a supercell where the gap used to be!
It is easy to say you'd go around, but airliners saying it was smooth at his altitude going through make the decision to go through it more enticing. My experience and based on what is being depicted in the video would lead me to assume that area where he turned around would be the bumpiest. It is the edge of a fast moving and active cell. I'm assuming his 2000ft/min descent was uncommanded and he already burned off his airspeed to Blue line trying to maintain altitude, meaning a 4000ft/min downdraft or greater. I wouldn't be doing anything other than keeping wings level, airspeed around blue line and maybe opening cowl flaps to keep the engines from getting hot. Eventually he would have popped out of that storm either vertically or horizontally. These types of events seem to happen a couple times a year in the more capable piston category to turboprop category and every time it seems like the incident should have been preventable.
The airline pilots had real time radar and knew how to read it. In that scenario, one can navigate around cells and through “holes” But a-general aviation aircraft with XM weather trying to get through a hole, might as well put say goodbye, because its akin to suicide.
As a hang glider pilot, we became over confident and make stupid mistakes. Just a pity that all paid the price. The problem with a detour would typically resulting in passengers complaining about the inconvenience and the pilot that rather wanted to please everybody. I was fortunate to delay my flight in a Cessna 310 (From Bilene, Mozambique to Jhb S Africa) for a day due to bad weather over Swaziland. So fortunate to live to tell the tale.
Southern Airways Flight 242 encountered a similar situation. They "Landed" and saved some passengers. Same issue with the attenuation of the radar by the worst part of the storm. Flight crew was pretty good in getting the aircraft down as well as they did.
Small.planes and storms don't mix. Seek a landing spot in the opposite direction. Mountain climbers and aircraft pilots must take weather very seriously. Stay out of the sky and stay off the mountains in storms
Mountain climbing may not be the best comparison seeing as how it takes a lot longer to scale a mountain (and can't exactly "turn around" and egress quickly or easily) and you could get caught in weather more unexpectedly than flying an aircraft.
Been there done that, this is what they pay you the big bucks for. If you decide to punch through it stay wing level the best you can don’t turn. it’s scary diverting is the option if you don’t have pressure to get the job done
About 5:28 mark in the video I pull up my EFB app to see what airports would be close to the pilot where I would have parked the plane to wait an hour or so and see if the storm moved on past going east. As I pull up my app I am confronted with the fact that at the moment that exact location is the eye of a hurricane currently making landfall in FL! Glad I don't regularly fly in FL.
I'm going to assume that's because he's using Microsoft Flight Simulator to simulate the flight, and there's no good quality 421 addon. There is an excellent C414 addon by Flightsimware so that's more than likely what they're using.
I fly a C414A and while it's very capable, I never get too close (e.g. within 20NM) to convective activity, or suspected convective activity. Based on the visualization presented on this video I'd have diverted and waited it out. I use Sirius XM weather, airborne weather radar, and Sentry on my iPad and having that above view provides a great "strategic" tool to avoid this very situation. He had them yet ignored them which I find puzzling. I've diverted, and waited out weather many times and as a 45 year, 65 year old pilot being bold is not in my game plan. Thunderstorms don't have any realistic options for contingencies..they must be avoided. I always evaluate my risk factors for each flight, actually written on my paper clearance sheet as are departure briefings, approach briefings, and weather hazard briefings items to make sure I don't forget to do them. Sad outcome for sure.
i watch lots of aviation reports Hoever, this format was the best and especially information on standard wx radar tilt settings Sad that they lost their lives but and area of storms that wide should never have been entrered Better Late Than Never...
Turn around land at an airport or airfield that does not have a huge storm. Make the best of it and fly to your final destination when safe. Never risk it. Some of our most enjoyable flights have been when we have deviated landed at small airports meeting new people, going to small local diners and enjoying good conversation. Always make the best of being safe. We never have anything to prove except for being smart and being safe with all the individuals on the plane someone should’ve said let’s land somewhere where there isn’t a storm. You can even drive in a car if you really want to get to where you’re going.
My cfii told me not to consider my instrument rating as a license to fly into clouds and rain but a tool to help me if i HAVE to. " as a civilian pilot. You always have the right to say no if it's to sketchy. I've literally flown me my husband and our kids back on an airliner because a cross country trip the weather got well beyond anything I wanted to deal with.
Boy, that would be a scary situation. It's a shame he didn't just fly straight, it looks like he'd have gotten out of danger, but he turned right into the heart of it.
Never turn around! All you want is a rough heading close to your assigned heading. Keep the blue side up. Don't worry about precise this or that. Turbulence will be working you. All cockpit lights on - day or night. Landing lights, nav lights, especially strobes OFF. Watch your airspeed. Work throttles as needed. Seat belts super tight. 5,000+ Beech 18. Emery & Federal Express. Never had a radar. I'm 75. Alive.
I am in absolute disbelief of how that pilot reacted. It wasn’t even night and the sheer force of nature was all visual infront of him…… Absolutely reckless handling..
I penetrated thunderstorm few times and it was very scary and turbulent. It was so shaky I couldn't see instruments and there was no way to maintain altitude. I stalled and banked +- 70 deg and lost few thousand feet before it spat my PC-12 out into clean air. On another ocasion I flew into one at night - it was yellow on the radar and it was on my arrival track. Again very turbulent, lots of ice and flashes. Now I refuse to fly unless I am 100% sure there is a way around them. It wasn't even a severe thunderstorms.
Very lucky, I flew the 12 for a bit. Not as docile as people make them out to be. Rough air and especially icing were incredibly problematic in that frame.
At the beginning of video a question was put : what would you have done differently ? As a transportation pro, this one is a no-brainer...when observing, either visually or through communication, that there was severe, difficult-to-manage weather directly in my line of travel, large system too big to go around, I would have returned to Jacksonville, landed and waited the weather out. Plenty of excellent, affordable restaurants and accommodation. This pilot made the wrong choice which cost his life and the lives of the passengers. SAFETY FIRST. PERIOD.
I once refused to fly a charter at night due to a line of storms. Another pilot flying a Piper Chieftain went ahead. I flew next morning but caught up to the storm line so stopped again. My pax were outraged. Finally got them there next day when I found out the front of the Chieftain was smashed to bits from hail encountered in the storms. They were lucky to make it. Still, dont regret my decision. Note the Chieftain had wx radar. I had zip.
trying to find a hole in the storm to go through is a bad sign, but I would lay some blame on ATC. Having the company president as a passenger must have put a lot of pressure on the pilot to get there.
In the intro: What would he have done different? Gone someplace else? Used a different route? What would he have done differently? Faster? On a Friday? On a pogo-stick? The first is about the act, the second about the way of carrying out the act.
Never do a 180 in severe weather; he should've known this has brought down even large commercial flights. Had he listen to the controller they might still be breathing. Multiple mistakes from the get go... Rest in Peace Sirs
I heard about this, it's a disease called getthereitice. You have a bank of heavy storm clouds 200 miles wide, you should go around them, way around them. But that would take time and they want to get there as soon as possible, so they took a gamble that didn't pay off. Well, as like in a car, sometimes trying to go too fast means you don't get there at all.
We get lots of scatter single cells here in FL like shown over GA and AL at index 5:28. These are easy to navigate around during daytime. However, that beast over the Golf and North FL, it's a completely different story. I only use ADSB low resolution Wx and ATC Wx (as primary source). Even ADSB Wx would've shown this beast well enough to stay away from that area. What would have I done? At index 5:28, if flying towards my base (KMLB), I would've requested eastbound to the east cost and try to beat the storm before turning South (done this several times before). If flying towards KTPA, easy, land and wait. It's really not a hard decision.
Poop happens I know but, as cargo pilot flying Baron 58s and piper Aerostar. I “penetrated “ thunderstorm lines a hundred times in those airplanes based at DCA and RDU. Of course you avoid what you can. You never pull a 180 almost. It will take same or longer time to exit storm. Plus Making that turn is difficult when you can’t even read your instruments because of turbulence and put more stress on airplane.
Damn it man .... near the end of flight before crash So Close to escape ....as A T C said fly straight fastest clearing 1 st ...then asked if wonted an turnaround big mistake ..straight was clear as day on this weather radar screen shown but Pilot missed it o9r was not sho0wn somehow in real time on pilots screens just terrible ... Why Fly into Storms ?? that need to get home is not always worth it ..divert , land & wait till clear ,
He was almost through the worst of it. He should have keep going straight. I’ve been in that crap plenty of times and the only thing you can do is slow down don’t fight the up and down drafts and keep the airplane right side up. The airplane is a lot stronger than you think it is if you just do what I just said. Don’t stop flying the airplane!
No turns once you've entered a bad cell. Wings level, slow to maneuvering speed, and try to ride it out. The altitude will be all over the place. Trying to turn loads the airplane more and invites unusual attitudes
The simulated plane here is not a 421, more like a 414. The 421 has geared engines. Don't fly into storms, just land and wait for them to pass. They always do. But you might not.
No I wouldn't have flown into that. The part about deliberately flying an aircraft into a line of CB's with tops at 45,000' is what gets me. Like why? Jets have crashed in storms less than these. Remember that crash where the surge valves got iced over and the engines well catastrophically surged, flamed out and they tried to land on a highway but it all turned to crap? Burnt 'zombies' started started knocking on residents front doors in the area. You couldn't think this stuff up as a script for a horror movie. Of all the stupid things to do. If the turbulence doesn't get you the hail will and if the hail doesn't get you the clear ice will. I understand how it happened but I like conflict and I'd happily tell the CEO to eff off in this situation if he/she insisted on pressing on. I'm the PIC, and while I'm the PIC the law has enshrined in me the responsibility for conducting a safe flight CEO or no CEO. I'm not dying for anyone.
TCUs to FL450 are “hum-dingers” … should be given a “wide berth.” Shucks, land at an alternate, cool-down those turbos, and “have a Coke and a smile.” … you’ll live to see another day. 🙄
Couldn't the pilot have flown out over the gulf. And come in below the storm. I see what looks like gaps in the storm going out into the gulf and coming into Tampa from the south? I'm not a pilot, but wish I were one. I'm just asking a question. Maybe fuel would have been a problem?
So many things: Was he at Best maneuvering airspeed, not fully understanding his equipment is very common, info from high flying jet aircraft should not have been considered. I believe just keeping aircraft at correct A/S and attitude and AOA riding out the situation instead of fighting it. There was no reason not knowing & understanding that entire line of TS south of his flight path and then not fluing into it for any reason.
I am always disheartened when, following a weather related accident, the investigators are able to “see” exactly what the hazard was that the pilot flew into. The “missing link” would be the ability to get this known hazard data to the pilot in real time so as to avoid the accident in the first place.
Rule 1 of private non-aerobatic aviation... Keep the blue side of the ball up. Rule #2: STAY OUT OF THUNDERSTORMS. I got to see a T-28 that somehow survived flying through a thunderstorm. The fuselage and wings were wrinkled. The AM Master Chief was amazed the wings hadn't come off.
Why did the pilot put himself in such a deadly situation?!!! Overconfidence. Invincible due to the amount of hours he had flown already. But the most important one, STUPIDITY!!!! He thought he was Superman. When I make my flight plans, if there is a storm brewing, I either go around or land and wait the storm out. Maybe a better day tomorrow to fly. I remember a long long time ago in Basic Ground School studying clouds. Cumulonimbus clouds are destruction clouds to aircraft. They stand tall as Giants. Do not fight a Giant. They can rip the wings off right off the plane. The radar showed these red dots on the screen. Well, those are the Giants. Avoid them and skirt around them.
"Got to go" is the Magor cause of Air crashes in a storm, i have had good friends Die in a snowstorm because they just had to get home. once you're in trouble it is too late nobody can help you then
Many are blaming the pilot for not avoiding the storm. So many times we go out driving & massive rain starts. 2 wheelers stop & take cover. 4 wheelers continue. I have continued my car in the storm & rain. But up in the air the stakes are way too high to fly into bad weather. He got into the bad weather not by choice but by accident but why did the plane overturn & break mid air ? Arent there simulators to train pilots to fly through extreme weather ? Or better is leave the flying job to fully automated machine rather than human brains with limitations.
What would you have done differently?
Flown commercial
fly way around the weather.
Looked at youtube videos of planes I wish I could afford
DIVERT
As a CFII, based on the radar I would have diverted without question. Poor decision making - between pilot and ATC, pilot gets sucked into rabbit hole 🤦♂️
XM is of no use navigating through a line of storms. Land somewhere, get a nice meal, wait it out. Tell the passengers you will get them there when the storms pass.
Smart tricks sitting on the toilet and advice some other.
XM is great for strategic planning, observing trends and movement. If there is sufficient space between storms then the airborne radar is handy using the XM helps with shadowing. Nothing worse than going through some moderate rain just to be confronted with convective activity. Delay and live.
XM doesn't show the present weather..
@@edwardrichardson5567it does show trends. And it’s only a few minutes delayed. XM keeps me out of the weather, rather than navigating through it.
What a shame!🙏
You ask what I would do? As a student pilot with intentions of getting instrument and commercial ratings I would have landed north FL, got some food and fuel and waited out the storm. I don't know what my future self with 2k hours would do, but I hope it would be the same.
The fact that you recognise the risk of future complacency put you in good position to avoid this.
Good plan…I would have done the same. That wx was solid.
And keep visual! I once filed IFR out of Paris, Tx. At that time there was no XM weather but it would not have changed anything. Before take off I saw that a line of thunderstorms was building on my cell phone app. As I took off and contacted ATC for flight following they ask if I wanted to pick up my clearance. I said no that if I couldn't stay visual it was time to land. Like you said most of these storms are fast movers and where they are depicted on the screen probably isn't where they are at. But the good part of that is that you can land and let the storm pass and be in good air afterwards. If it's real big try to find some cover or your plane may look like a golf ball after the hail hits.
Every student pilot thinks this until they actually get in that situation
Exactly what I said. We have landed at different airports due to weather. And we always make the best of it. There’s almost always some older pilots around telling stories, so we have enjoyable conversations, there’s always a small diner the most of the pilots go to, so we end up enjoying some good food, good conversation, and most of all we make it to our final destination without taking risk.
I've been inside once and lived. Absolutely most terrifying experience of my life. I Absolutely respect storms these days. Just not worth it
Never been in a storm, but I remember years ago flying my C210 in a central Australian summer and being pelted by hail from a massive storm 45 nautical miles way!!
Nasty brutes.
Only been up in a small airplane once, it was a smooth and calm flight, there wasn't any weather concerns during the whole time, and I enjoyed myself, but I also understand how storms work, and would definitely NOT want to be in the air during anything like what they encountered.
I know how powerful the updrafts and turbulence can get inside a storm, and even jumbo jets avoid them, so I'm glad you're still around to post this.
I keep thinking of that female paraglider that got sucked up into a storm cell and survived it. I believe her altimeter recorded her at up over 39,000+ feet!
absolutely
Ditto! And it was my first IFR flight after my rating. At night! How stupid! However I made a course reversal immediately.
This is the third fatal air crash I know of, where the pilot thought his onboard XM weather radar was real-time. In fact, the weather displayed can be eight to fifteen minutes old. That misunderstanding of the system has killed a few pilots and their passengers, and more will likely die still. A tragic outcome.
Never undstand why he didn’t land before even going into the weather! Another case of get-there-itis!
More like "get-there-itis in this case.
Ego problem???????
Does anyone know how much an extra landing will cost? Of course you will rather pay that than die, but you would also not pay that if you think you can do without. Not only gas but also airport fees.
I’m an IFR rated pilot and fly fairly capable GA planes. This was an easy one to avoid. It’s called No Go. Why on earth some pilots think that penetrating weather like that is a good idea is beyond me. My rule is remain VMC when anywhere near convective weather. That may be an overly conservative attitude that keeps me on the ground more often but it will keep me more alive.
I saw a comment one time from a pilot with 10,000 hrs and relativity few hours of actual IMC. He was questioned in a job interview why the low actual and he replied, “That’s where the thunderstorms are.” He didn’t get the job, but I bet he is still alive today. Far too many macho pilots, many of them alive today due to dumb luck. I like your VMC rule around T-storms.
@@naps3386 in 100% GA for personal flights so if I can simply set ego and pride aside (not always easy if we are being honest) then we can avoid these situations. I build a “flex day” around every trip we take. We’ve went home early or late on more than one occasion.
yea this is what Dan Gryder is always talking about. you are conscious until the end. it's not a good way to unalive
It’s not nice to fool with Mother Nature.
Get there itius and pleasing the boss was the problem. You were right, they needed a bus, not a plane
This video is a stark reminder that even experienced pilots can fall victim to dangerous weather. The breakdown of the decisions made, highlighting the limitations of the onboard radar, really makes you think - would I have trusted those instruments? It's a chilling reminder to prioritize safety above all else when flying.
2000 hrs is not an experienced pilot.
I've been in some green returns before that scared the crap out of me. Anything yellow, especially if it looks like if may be turning red soon and/or merging with other yellow, and I am running for cover. One nice thing about GA flying in the USA is that there is almost always an airport right below you somewhere. On many occasions I've made a decision to run for a nearest airport. Sometimes it makes for an uncomfortable wait on the ground. But at least I am on the ground. And then were are days when I wish I just stayed on the ground...
Thank you for your use of maps with the aircraft and the weather to help us understand the 'big picture'!!
I’m an airline pilot and NEVER would have done what this guy did. He had no business flying through that weather. Poor passengers 😢.
Bragger 🙄🙄🙄
@@AwesomeAngryBiker A bot that's a bully.
way yo go YT
Learned as a student pilot that it is exhausting fighting weather. I was stuck in the Santa Ana winds in a beech tomahawk. Landed in Palm Springs, lunch and fuel, took off to FBO Riverside. Had to land in Banning to refuel. The cars on the freeway were twice my speed. My rollout in Banning was about 30’ before I popped off the ground. Never again. Banning was maybe 15 miles from Palm Springs.
Damn. That’s wild.
Glad you made it Sir🙏
This is a chilling reminder that even experienced pilots face tough decisions. The weather radar’s limitations make this tragedy a heartbreaking lesson for all aviators. RIP to those on board, and may we all learn from this to prioritize safety over all else. 🙏🛩
Experienced pilots have 10s of thousands of hours and don't go into thunderstorms.
Yes
Wise words, we are the experts, it is up to us to know our equipment and its limitations. RIP.
Clint Eastwood in magnum force... Quote of a lifetime....
A Man's got to know his Limitations..
What a freakin shame. RIP to all onboard. With each tragedy there is much to learn. With the information the pilot had, I don’t feel he made a bad decision. Small planes around the world navigate in and around bad weather every day. Very sad what happened.
Objectively, he made a bad decision
What a sad mishap. An experienced pilot with instrumentation that presented as an accurate. What could he do? What is so heart wrenching is to see the weather where flying straight would have meant a happy day, but turning right directly into a line of severe cells. If the pilot only had the correct radar, the outcome would have been OK. All these stories are sad but this story stands out. The airplane was very sweet. This is VERY sad.
What could the pilot do? Study the manual for the XM radar and know it’s up to 15 minutes behind.
Avoidance could have been better planned by suggesting an earlier departure time to the boss.. Storm activity in this area at this time is as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow.. an earlier start before temperatures begin to rise may well have given them a smooth ride all the way..
I've done a similar route in almost similar weather in an almost similar aircraft. Yes the airspace can be tricky to navigate due to all the MOAs, but I have deviated almost all the way to Jacksonville when coming down to Tampa. Florida thunderstorms can grow at an alarming rate, they're to be taken very seriously.
nothing fear more , just don't know, broke as I am and do mean broke , 100k wouldn't even make me stop and consider it, really wouldn't, and people pay to ride them , crazy
If you can’t find a gap between two large cells that’s at least twenty miles wide, give it up. Land someplace and go relax for a while.
This video was very nicely presented and narrated. Thank you.
This video is made with AI and no effort put into it
If the pilot trusted his gut, he'd be alive today. It's better to be jobless and alive, than ded.
Here’s another tip for avoiding situations like this. Pilots unfortunately view a “No Go” in a situation like this as a failure of the mission as if it points out a lack of skill or “courage” (like that should be needed!!!). It could not be further from the truth. I challenge anyone to find a RUclips video highlighting a flight that didn’t happen and was delayed because of being conservative with ADM.
Here’s my tactic when it comes to my GA travel with family and friends: delayed or altered travel dates are “steak nights”. My kids know this. If we are on a trip and the weather alters our original travel date the wife, kids, whoever gets to pick the restaurant and we eat like a king. This has been a long standing tradition. Although it’s not often we have eaten steak (or whatever they choose) more than once. This completely turns the disappointment of the schedule change into a little treat for them. The meal may be expensive but the incentive for the whole group to get a “bonus” if the schedule changes is priceless.
"Little holes," huh? In that crap _little holes_ become *NO* holes, in no time. So what would I have done differently? I wouldn't have flown into the pretty colors, just hoping things worked out. When you start trying to force it, you're just asking for trouble. If you ever find yourself asking, _"OMG, what should I do now?"_ Especially repeatedly, you've almost certainly bitten off more than you can chew. I'm guessing no pilot with any skill level could have made it through that. The _very_ experienced ones, however, wouldn't have tried.
_"When to turn back......?"_ It didn't even necessarily have to be a case of turning back. If the (I believe) correct decision had been made they could have just stopped in the northern part of the state, maybe got something to eat, and then continued on. They may have gotten to their destination 2 or 3 hours late......but they would have gotten there.
Correct - we call them “Suckers Gaps” chances are by the time you get there it will have moved or closed. CB cells in close proximity have a nasty habit of merging to make a supercell where the gap used to be!
It is easy to say you'd go around, but airliners saying it was smooth at his altitude going through make the decision to go through it more enticing. My experience and based on what is being depicted in the video would lead me to assume that area where he turned around would be the bumpiest. It is the edge of a fast moving and active cell. I'm assuming his 2000ft/min descent was uncommanded and he already burned off his airspeed to Blue line trying to maintain altitude, meaning a 4000ft/min downdraft or greater. I wouldn't be doing anything other than keeping wings level, airspeed around blue line and maybe opening cowl flaps to keep the engines from getting hot. Eventually he would have popped out of that storm either vertically or horizontally. These types of events seem to happen a couple times a year in the more capable piston category to turboprop category and every time it seems like the incident should have been preventable.
The airline pilots had real time radar and knew how to read it. In that scenario, one can navigate around cells and through “holes” But a-general aviation aircraft with XM weather trying to get through a hole, might as well put say goodbye, because its akin to suicide.
Another great post Katie!
As a hang glider pilot, we became over confident and make stupid mistakes. Just a pity that all paid the price. The problem with a detour would typically resulting in passengers complaining about the inconvenience and the pilot that rather wanted to please everybody. I was fortunate to delay my flight in a Cessna 310 (From Bilene, Mozambique to Jhb S Africa) for a day due to bad weather over Swaziland. So fortunate to live to tell the tale.
No kidding man, same here.Is a hanglider pilot
Dude talk about some cloud suck wow
Southern Airways Flight 242 encountered a similar situation. They "Landed" and saved some passengers. Same issue with the attenuation of the radar by the worst part of the storm. Flight crew was pretty good in getting the aircraft down as well as they did.
Small.planes and storms don't mix. Seek a landing spot in the opposite direction. Mountain climbers and aircraft pilots must take weather very seriously. Stay out of the sky and stay off the mountains in storms
Mountain climbing may not be the best comparison seeing as how it takes a lot longer to scale a mountain (and can't exactly "turn around" and egress quickly or easily) and you could get caught in weather more unexpectedly than flying an aircraft.
Another superb one
" If you going through hell , keep going." W Churchill.
Exactly HtPt. The turn is what killed 'em!
Been there done that, this is what they pay you the big bucks for. If you decide to punch through it stay wing level the best you can don’t turn. it’s scary diverting is the option if you don’t have pressure to get the job done
About 5:28 mark in the video I pull up my EFB app to see what airports would be close to the pilot where I would have parked the plane to wait an hour or so and see if the storm moved on past going east. As I pull up my app I am confronted with the fact that at the moment that exact location is the eye of a hurricane currently making landfall in FL! Glad I don't regularly fly in FL.
The airplane shown is a 414A Chancellor, not a 421 Golden Eagle.
I'm going to assume that's because he's using Microsoft Flight Simulator to simulate the flight, and there's no good quality 421 addon. There is an excellent C414 addon by Flightsimware so that's more than likely what they're using.
I fly a C414A and while it's very capable, I never get too close (e.g. within 20NM) to convective activity, or suspected convective activity. Based on the visualization presented on this video I'd have diverted and waited it out. I use Sirius XM weather, airborne weather radar, and Sentry on my iPad and having that above view provides a great "strategic" tool to avoid this very situation. He had them yet ignored them which I find puzzling. I've diverted, and waited out weather many times and as a 45 year, 65 year old pilot being bold is not in my game plan. Thunderstorms don't have any realistic options for contingencies..they must be avoided. I always evaluate my risk factors for each flight, actually written on my paper clearance sheet as are departure briefings, approach briefings, and weather hazard briefings items to make sure I don't forget to do them. Sad outcome for sure.
i watch lots of aviation reports Hoever, this format was the best and especially information on standard wx radar tilt settings Sad that they lost their lives but and area of storms that wide should never have been entrered Better Late Than Never...
I have turned back on several occasions dues to low cloud and precipitation. If thunderstorms are forecast, go somewhere else.
Turn around land at an airport or airfield that does not have a huge storm. Make the best of it and fly to your final destination when safe. Never risk it. Some of our most enjoyable flights have been when we have deviated landed at small airports meeting new people, going to small local diners and enjoying good conversation. Always make the best of being safe. We never have anything to prove except for being smart and being safe with all the individuals on the plane someone should’ve said let’s land somewhere where there isn’t a storm. You can even drive in a car if you really want to get to where you’re going.
My cfii told me not to consider my instrument rating as a license to fly into clouds and rain but a tool to help me if i HAVE to. " as a civilian pilot. You always have the right to say no if it's to sketchy. I've literally flown me my husband and our kids back on an airliner because a cross country trip the weather got well beyond anything I wanted to deal with.
Smart woman!
Bragger 🙄🙄🙄
@AwesomeAngryBiker *shrugs* sounds like your problem not mine.
Like the old saying says, better to be on the ground wishing you were flying than to be flying wishing you were on the ground.
Boy, that would be a scary situation. It's a shame he didn't just fly straight, it looks like he'd have gotten out of danger, but he turned right into the heart of it.
Straight ahead was clear. So glad I choose to fly in nice weather. Sad loss of innocent lives.
Never turn around! All you want is a rough heading close to your assigned heading. Keep the blue side up. Don't worry about precise this or that. Turbulence will be working you. All cockpit lights on - day or night. Landing lights, nav lights, especially strobes OFF. Watch your airspeed. Work throttles as needed. Seat belts super tight. 5,000+ Beech 18. Emery & Federal Express. Never had a radar. I'm 75. Alive.
Seemed like a good idea at the time
It never ends
I am in absolute disbelief of how that pilot reacted. It wasn’t even night and the sheer force of nature was all visual infront of him…… Absolutely reckless handling..
These storms are very common north of Florida. The front of the storm is usually the worse place to be in.. severe up or down draft.
"There is absolutely no reason to fly into a thunderstorm during peacetime".
The sign behind my OIC's desk.
I penetrated thunderstorm few times and it was very scary and turbulent. It was so shaky I couldn't see instruments and there was no way to maintain altitude. I stalled and banked +- 70 deg and lost few thousand feet before it spat my PC-12 out into clean air. On another ocasion I flew into one at night - it was yellow on the radar and it was on my arrival track. Again very turbulent, lots of ice and flashes. Now I refuse to fly unless I am 100% sure there is a way around them. It wasn't even a severe thunderstorms.
Very lucky, I flew the 12 for a bit. Not as docile as people make them out to be. Rough air and especially icing were incredibly problematic in that frame.
At the beginning of video a question was put : what would you have done differently ? As a transportation pro, this one is a no-brainer...when observing, either visually or through communication, that there was severe, difficult-to-manage weather directly in my line of travel, large system too big to go around, I would have returned to Jacksonville, landed and waited the weather out. Plenty of excellent, affordable restaurants and accommodation.
This pilot made the wrong choice which cost his life and the lives of the passengers.
SAFETY FIRST. PERIOD.
I once refused to fly a charter at night due to a line of storms. Another pilot flying a Piper Chieftain went ahead. I flew next morning but caught up to the storm line so stopped again. My pax were outraged. Finally got them there next day when I found out the front of the Chieftain was smashed to bits from hail encountered in the storms. They were lucky to make it. Still, dont regret my decision. Note the Chieftain had wx radar. I had zip.
It looked like a solid and thick line of thunderstorms to me, which must have shown on xm late or not, and yet he proceeded.
trying to find a hole in the storm to go through is a bad sign, but I would lay some blame on ATC. Having the company president as a passenger must have put a lot of pressure on the pilot to get there.
They basically made it through. Then he turned right into it. So close. RIP❤
When flying friends or customers you cannot allow that to effect your decision making Divert and live
In the intro:
What would he have done different? Gone someplace else? Used a different route?
What would he have done differently? Faster? On a Friday? On a pogo-stick?
The first is about the act, the second about the way of carrying out the act.
rule number one never fly into a thunderstorm. rule number two never throw your life away for some cushy job that contributes nothing for mankind.
Never do a 180 in severe weather; he should've known this has brought down even large commercial flights. Had he listen to the controller they might still be breathing.
Multiple mistakes from the get go...
Rest in Peace Sirs
I heard about this, it's a disease called getthereitice. You have a bank of heavy storm clouds 200 miles wide, you should go around them, way around them. But that would take time and they want to get there as soon as possible, so they took a gamble that didn't pay off. Well, as like in a car, sometimes trying to go too fast means you don't get there at all.
11:00, XM satellite weather delay was mentioned in another air crash as a contributing major cause i an AOPA air accident investigation episode
Lives would have been saved if he had set down at Lake City north of the storm and waited 2 hours for the storm to pass. Classic “get there-itis”.
Did the pilot know there was a storm before they set off?
Or can the weather change so quickly in that area it's impossible to plan for?
I think the controller saying smooth ride sucked him in.
We get lots of scatter single cells here in FL like shown over GA and AL at index 5:28. These are easy to navigate around during daytime. However, that beast over the Golf and North FL, it's a completely different story. I only use ADSB low resolution Wx and ATC Wx (as primary source). Even ADSB Wx would've shown this beast well enough to stay away from that area. What would have I done? At index 5:28, if flying towards my base (KMLB), I would've requested eastbound to the east cost and try to beat the storm before turning South (done this several times before). If flying towards KTPA, easy, land and wait. It's really not a hard decision.
“Get-There-Itis” kills again. Why in the world would you fly through that storm!! Oh, the airliners did it so I can too. 🤦🏾♂️
Poop happens I know but, as cargo pilot flying Baron 58s and piper Aerostar. I “penetrated “ thunderstorm lines a hundred times in those airplanes based at DCA and RDU. Of course you avoid what you can. You never pull a 180 almost. It will take same or longer time to exit storm. Plus Making that turn is difficult when you can’t even read your instruments because of turbulence and put more stress on airplane.
The pilot was a Commercial Pilot, single and multi-engine land. He was not instrument rated. He was not very experienced. 🤔🤨🧐
BS
For new pilots to the hot humid south, weather changes rapidly. It moves fast. Just wait it out.
Damn it man .... near the end of flight before crash So Close to escape ....as A T C said fly straight fastest clearing 1 st ...then asked if wonted an turnaround big mistake ..straight was clear as day on this weather radar screen shown but Pilot missed it o9r was not sho0wn somehow in real time on pilots screens just terrible ... Why Fly into Storms ?? that need to get home is not always worth it ..divert , land & wait till clear ,
Trained, if your in that position, continue heading is the shortest way out.
"Six Seven Delta uh, we're in quite a bit of turbulence ..."
"No shiiit!"
He was almost through the worst of it. He should have keep going straight. I’ve been in that crap plenty of times and the only thing you can do is slow down don’t fight the up and down drafts and keep the airplane right side up. The airplane is a lot stronger than you think it is if you just do what I just said. Don’t stop flying the airplane!
No turns once you've entered a bad cell. Wings level, slow to maneuvering speed, and try to ride it out. The altitude will be all over the place. Trying to turn loads the airplane more and invites unusual attitudes
I thought storms can’t down a plane and that people just avoid it due to turbulence? Is that just true for commercial size planes?
The simulated plane here is not a 421, more like a 414. The 421 has geared engines.
Don't fly into storms, just land and wait for them to pass. They always do. But you might not.
No I wouldn't have flown into that.
The part about deliberately flying an aircraft into a line of CB's with tops at 45,000' is what gets me. Like why? Jets have crashed in storms less than these.
Remember that crash where the surge valves got iced over and the engines well catastrophically surged, flamed out and they tried to land on a highway but it all turned to crap? Burnt 'zombies' started started knocking on residents front doors in the area.
You couldn't think this stuff up as a script for a horror movie.
Of all the stupid things to do. If the turbulence doesn't get you the hail will and if the hail doesn't get you the clear ice will.
I understand how it happened but I like conflict and I'd happily tell the CEO to eff off in this situation if he/she insisted on pressing on. I'm the PIC, and while I'm the PIC the law has enshrined in me the responsibility for conducting a safe flight CEO or no CEO.
I'm not dying for anyone.
TCUs to FL450 are “hum-dingers” … should be given a “wide berth.” Shucks, land at an alternate, cool-down those turbos, and “have a Coke and a smile.”
… you’ll live to see another day. 🙄
Couldn't the pilot have flown out over the gulf. And come in below the storm. I see what looks like gaps in the storm going out into the gulf and coming into Tampa from the south? I'm not a pilot, but wish I were one. I'm just asking a question. Maybe fuel would have been a problem?
So many things: Was he at Best maneuvering airspeed, not fully understanding his equipment is very common, info from high flying jet aircraft should not have been considered.
I believe just keeping aircraft at correct A/S and attitude and AOA riding out the situation instead of fighting it.
There was no reason not knowing & understanding that entire line of TS south of his flight path and then not fluing into it for any reason.
2000 hours does not make one an expert, especially in an advanced aircraft.
Not only that but no instrument ticket.
Gotta get radar technology thats no older than 3 min. 15min is insane..
NTSB is looking for how and why....that is a no brainer there
Trade show "get there-itis" Should have turned north and put it on the ground ASAP
I am always disheartened when, following a weather related accident, the investigators are able to “see” exactly what the hazard was that the pilot flew into. The “missing link” would be the ability to get this known hazard data to the pilot in real time so as to avoid the accident in the first place.
I took one look at the radar and decided I wouldn’t have tried in a light aircraft. I have over 25,000 hours in Boeings and light ac.
this is what Dan is always talking about. heed his warning ⚠
He sounded young, probably trying to "make his bones" in his new career, and he probably had a tyrannical, overbearing boss to keep happy.
It's AI-generated voice, just so you know.
@@hughjarse4205 The accident sequence has actual ATC comms, you can see that in the top left corner.
@@somealias-zs1bw Thanks, I'll check it out. I was listening to it in another tab and not watching.
Turned upside down. Seems like they broke a wing spar and wings collapsed.
RIP !
Rule 1 of private non-aerobatic aviation... Keep the blue side of the ball up.
Rule #2: STAY OUT OF THUNDERSTORMS.
I got to see a T-28 that somehow survived flying through a thunderstorm. The fuselage and wings were wrinkled. The AM Master Chief was amazed the wings hadn't come off.
Why did the pilot put himself in such a deadly situation?!!! Overconfidence. Invincible due to the amount of hours he had flown already. But the most important one, STUPIDITY!!!! He thought he was Superman. When I make my flight plans, if there is a storm brewing, I either go around or land and wait the storm out. Maybe a better day tomorrow to fly. I remember a long long time ago in Basic Ground School studying clouds. Cumulonimbus clouds are destruction clouds to aircraft. They stand tall as Giants. Do not fight a Giant. They can rip the wings off right off the plane. The radar showed these red dots on the screen. Well, those are the Giants. Avoid them and skirt around them.
As a passenger, i refused to fly bc of stormy weather. Airline delayed me for 3hrs - no prob
"Got to go" is the Magor cause of Air crashes in a storm, i have had good friends Die in a snowstorm because they just had to get home. once you're in trouble it is too late nobody can help you then
All the fancy weather equipment in the world does you no good if you ignore the information.
It's better to be jobless and alive than ded.
That's sad, the turn killed them, they should've stayed on course, probably would've flown out of the trouble.
Turn around, divert or land immediately and wait it out.
Very sad event.
Freight Dog motto: "Don't be late, penetrate!"
Many are blaming the pilot for not avoiding the storm. So many times we go out driving & massive rain starts. 2 wheelers stop & take cover. 4 wheelers continue. I have continued my car in the storm & rain. But up in the air the stakes are way too high to fly into bad weather. He got into the bad weather not by choice but by accident but why did the plane overturn & break mid air ? Arent there simulators to train pilots to fly through extreme weather ? Or better is leave the flying job to fully automated machine rather than human brains with limitations.
7:09 ATC said, you're about to get out of it if you continue ahead, why didn't he just trust them and continue a lil father until he got out??
Weather radar should be used to avoid--not thread your way through.