@@samvoulalis205 i love Sal and his shirts, just makes him more human and less the authoritarian expert type, even if he is actually very well connected and certainly very well respected, i could listen to him for hours, ooh i do ! hehe
Legal Vices (attorney who specializes in admiralty law) is commenting on the proceedings live. I had to chuckle when one of his viewers commented something along the lines of "could you get What is Going on With Shipping to comment on the coverage?". The host's reply was essentially, "Sal is huge, he doesn't have time for us." Kind of a roundabout compliment from a fellow You Tuber.
Watching the hearing, Stockton Rush really was the nightmare spoilt-brat manchild of a person....The tale of him piloting a sub into the wreck of the SS Andrea Doria then initially refusing to handover the controller, only to relinquish it by throwing & breaking it is telling in itself...
His testimony was bizarre. "I'm the most genius engineer in the world and did things at OceanGate that were amazing and I want full credit for that. And....I had nothing to do with any of the actual engineering on the actual submersible at OceanGate". WTF?
@@bees5461 Granted, I did not catch all the testimony etc. Merely stating what I heard via a few “journalist sources”. That said, his statements are a slight “disconnect” on his part.
Crazy how the CEO bragged about how undersea vessels in general have a great safety record, but also about breaking rules and not certifying (thus breaking the same rules that makes the others so safe)
@@helenllamaon paper but it seems ceo''s are oh okay let's just put that report in the draw and forget about and carry on like normal. we pay a token fine but who cares.
@@dongiovanni4331I agree but talking misinformation why is there a dinky little strap doing which appears to be holding the capsule together??is this really on the ocean floor?I don’t believe anything anymore js
Although civilian submersibles are not their usual subject, the logistical and technical understanding of Sal and Aaron really showed during this event. Sal was getting high quality information out there when everyone else seemed to be completely hung up on tapping sounds.
As XCKD said: "You wouldn't really die *_of_* anything, in the traditional sense. You would just stop being biology and start being physics." A pity they did not show the main body remains. It really put this into perspective.
Scott Manley did; you can see it on his latest video. There weren't any visible human remains, just a field of tiny bits and pieces with the other half of the titanium sphere at one end.
Implosions usually happen in about .015 seconds. Perception of pain usually takes .25 seconds. As far as they were concerned, they suddenly just weren't anymore.
@@KarlKarpfen I don't think it would even be possible for this type of craft to develop a slow leak. Either it developed a leak via imploding or it doesn't develop a leak I'm pretty sure.
@@wrenboy2726 It was actually video. If you go to the USCG Titan hearing page there are links to the two videos that have been released so far. I think there are probably more coming. So far one shows the discovery of the nose cone sitting upright on the bottom in surprisingly good condition. And the second one shows both of the end caps. One of the end caps has a ring that looks like it might be partially attached. Some of the carbon fiber is still attached, a fairly large piece. But it looks like a pile of carbon fiber all smashed together is sitting inside that second end cap.
Sal, as always, your intelligence shines through.This video reminds me why I watch your channel for technical news, and not shows like LiveNOW. I don’t know how you found the forbearance to avoid saying, “I just answered that question 10 seconds ago. Weren’t you listening?”
That there was no one for the main engineer that has been testifying (that wrote up the report to all of the company outlining everything wrong) to go to other than the fool responsible for it all is a rough pill to swallow. You could tell that he probably won't be getting over these events totally even though they were not his fault and he did all he could and was fired for his efforts.
Great segment Sal! I only have one critic, I think you should of snuck in a Bab al-Mandab randomly towards the end. Haha just kidding, thanks for all your great insights and expertise.
Scott Manley has a segment on how the titanium bulkeads were secured to the carbon fiber hull with an adhesive. Industrial adhesives are miracles of technology, but still... An aviation analog of this experimental design would be flying a homebuilt designed to be pressurized up to, say 150,000ft, with passengers on board the first time.
The most intresting so far is indeed that the adhesive seem to be the main issue and not the tube hull structure. Then the horror stories of the former employes are indeed terrifying. hopefully the knowledge gathered will give us more insights in deep sea vehicles and the possible designs for future projects.
There is no peer review per se. It's engineering, not science. There are several organizations that do certification. For that certificate Oceangate would have had to prove that they followed proper procedures, used good materials and practices and did proper tests. The certifiers would have asked some rather pointed questions that Mr. Rush did not like to answer. Hence he did not invite them to talk. Or look.
Those who study maritime history know about a novel written 14 years before Titanic sank. The book was "Futility"or "The Wreck Of The Titan". 112 years later, Titanic still holds our interest.
Yes. Or rather a "flexible circumferential non-pressure hull binding device". They also had several "ad-hoc quick-installation fixtures" (zip ties) attached to cables and thrusters in place of ordinary old fashioned screws and bolts. With the thrusters reportedly exhibiting a somewhat "stochastic work profile" on occasion.
My thoughts are still with the experts who safely build, test, and use their vessels with purpose rather than profit. Much effort towards designs that have to work the first time or the strict funding is taken away. This part reminds me of spaceX and their many failures they can afford without risking the funding.
Because they're free-flooding there's no pressure differential to deal with. The net stresses aren't markedly different than sitting on the deck of the launching ship. As long as you don't have bubbles in the material during production (see images of Styrofoam coffee cups taken to depth) there's nothing to fail.
Do we really want to know the answer to that given the stupidity of the operation? It could make the situation all the more horrifying. Hoping it was just left overs of the straps that held it down for transport out to the site and not anything...structural...
@@LackofFaithify Yes, we really do want to know the answer, that portion was the aft end of the submersible, as shown in inset illustration at 6:14, and was an unpressurized equipment bay with that strap securing the fairings/shroud which created smoother water flow around that section.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." -Richard P. Feynman (1918-1988), in his conclusion to Appendix F of the Rogers Commission report on the loss of space shuttle _Challenger,_ 1986
Sal, you said something about no fatalities in submersibles but what about the Russian sub that went down with 118 souls? There was a RUclips video explaining what happened. It was in the Baltic Sea. Watching you brings up lots of interesting RUclips videos about seafaring! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Submarines and submersibles aren't exactly the same thing. But even so there aren't many fatalities in submarine history if you don't include war losses. Compared to airplanes submarines are very safe, especially since the 70's.
I've been making that point about this for some time. Anybody who knows materials or submersibles could have predicted this, and many did. I'm an aviation nerd, so carbon fiber properties are something I'm familiar with. I saw footage of them winding a tube out of it for the pressure vessel and my first thought was that it would kill people.
Carbon fiber is fine for pressure vessels if you control your seams properly, i.e. the 787 or rocket fuel tanks. Where this went wrong is the dissimilar material used for the ends. The end caps and the cylinder were always going to compress and expand at different rates, stressing the joint. No adhesive was going to remain sufficiently flexible and strong in that application, especially in the cold water. Metals can deform but carbon fiber fractures, so once the two got far enough apart, the carbon fiber failed. Definitely a case where there's a legitimate reason we've always done it that way, and there's a strong burden on the newcomer to prove the new way is better.
There’s more footage showing the front hemisphere laying on its own, and the aft portion of the pressure vessel with the mangled remains of the pressure vessel shoved into the aft hemisphere.
When it comes to the announcement of the hearing I believe it had to be posted in the Federal Register and some newspapers. The problem is, who reads newspapers? This hearing is for the Marine Board to hear from experts. The hearings to look for are entitled Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. Hopefully, USCG's Merchant Marine Technical (MMT) will set up a committee to draft rules. This was done for Vapor Recovery. Captain Gordon Marsh, USCG (Retired) led that effort. If I was the USCG I would recruit Gordon to lead the rulemaking process.
Sal, another problem with the Jones Act, etc is they just announced our nuclear sub program is $ 17 billion over budget which is enough to buy a new air craft carrier. General David Petraeus just wrote in the WSJ that we need to learn from Ukraine to make less costly weapons. We are just spending money that we no longer have.
The video of the winding of the midsection shows a bad winding pattern. The pattern shows a resistance to radial pressure, but not to columnar pressure. Compare the winding pattern of the submersible to the winding pattern of the space shuttle solid boosters.Secondly, Carbon fibers are notoriously brittle; commingling the carbon with other fibers such as Kevlar or titanium increases the toughness of the material. On the original ice slough tests of the V22 Osprey the ice sloughed by the rotors shattered the carbon fiber body. To overcome the brittleness of the composite other tougher fibers were included in the V22 Body.
... and still then, carbon fiber and other fiber reinforced plastics are strong in tension but practically unsupported by their fibers in compression. Introducing other fibers won't help with this fundamental flaw in the material choice for a submersible, which has exactly one purpose: withstanding repeated cycles of extreme compression loads
@@KarlKarpfen In such composites the plastic body is supposed to take the compression stress internally the fibers distribute the load reducing catastrophic failure. The Plastic is often an Epoxy resin. High pressure/temperature epoxies are fair more able to resist compression. However water weakens epoxies and prolonged water exposure sometimes a cause of the plastic matrix failing. In aquatic applications a top coat of a polyester resin prevents water penetration into the epoxy matrix. So this begs the questions: 1.Was the composite section resin an epoxy? 2.If so was the resin chosen a high compression strength/modulus resin? 3. If so was the composite section autoclaved to the proper specification? 4. If so was there a protective topcoat to prevent seawater from weakening the epoxy? 5.If not what was the resin chosen and why was a weaker, lower modulus resin chosen?
@@moors710 That's right in general, nonetheless, there is no epoxy out there that offers sufficient compressive strength in the wet environment and with the expectable defects.
What I'm trying to say, is he ( Rush) should have concerns of how long the epoxy/ glue would react with temperature changes, repeatedly in water contact, movement of weight of submersible twisting of contact of titanium ring and carbon fiber connection, after time, There probably going to be seperation and gluing it would only last a certain amount of deep dives if even any, only temporary.
That section is attached to the rear of the Submersible outside the pressure hull. The strap keeps the white covers over the mechanical and electrical components.
Love comparing Ocean Gate to Triton Subs. Triton Submersibles pushed the boundaries with their Plexiglas pressure vessel. While not a novel material it was never used in such a way before. They tested and tested and made it work. Titan does something similar but ignores industry concerns and very little testing. I am going to take a guess and say it was a brittle fracture of the composite and or glue around the titanium ring caused by cyclic loading and the different rates of expansion and contraction between the composite and the titanium. No engineer just a mechanic but the design of those areas raises massive red flags for even me.
It was not a safe process because a single person could trivially subvert the process. Submersibles are not really super safe, they are just rarely used (statisitically).
Having a very active imagination doesn't help one looking at that mess....but it makes sense that the failure was probably the glue on the forward titanium ring. This would be the ring that was repeatedly subject to the strain of having the cover bolted on and taken off....
Scott Manley just made a good video. He was saying they tested it with a steel ring and then glued a titanium one which had a different expansion rate.
@@792slayer Carbon fiber handles compressive loads extremely well, compared to most other materials. It just handles other loads so much _better_ that we expect miracle-material performance out of it when it's merely very good.
@@meritwolf219 my understanding from reading the material property sheets a while ago was that under compression, the majority of the strength is provided by the epoxy that bonds the fibers, with the fibers themselves providing relatively little strength in that mode. From what I was able to gather, strength can be increased by using certain weaves or layering methods, but compressive loads aren't where carbon fiber really shines. Granted, I was reading the documents probably 15 years ago for a design project I was considering, so things may have changed.
@@792slayer 'compressive loads aren't where carbon fiber really shines' I agree completely with this statement, and everything I've learned since this disaster made compressive vs tensile loads mainstream does too. When they were new, these composite materials were miraculous in their strength:weight ratio, ESPECIALLY under tension. My point is just that they aren't, contrary to a lot of comments, unable to bear great compressive loads. They're still very strong, especially in relation to their weight. Where the choice of carbon fiber material likely _truly_ affected these events, it was in denying the (other) passengers of this vessel the audible and visible harbingers of failure that would have given them cause and opportunity to scrub the dive. As for the rest of what you said, I'm not an engineer or any other kind of skilled professional to argue specific facts.
Ah, RIP Juan Tripp. Founder of PanAm he was a "Barnstorner"; dangerous & noisey - then fell in love. Her father refused the marriage, but he found "Betty". Still enjoying dangerous flying experiences, he founded PanAm. Any expense to protect his flyers. Crazy flying was a private affair. A truly great man vs a gasbag.
You may not write off the technologies abord this submersible, but all experts on submarine engineering wrote off one technology beforehand: fiber reinforced plastic, no matter which kind, especially attempts to sandwich it with titanium Why? Because it is known that they can't withstand compression loads very well and they do crack ever so slightly with every compression load cycle, so the carbon fiber hull was known to get weaker with every dive. This wasn't theory only either, as in the 1970s, some companies tried that with non-critical submarine equipment to find out that it breaks quickly, but not during the first cycle. The problem won't get better with a pairing of two different materials with very different shrinking speeds under pressure.
Why was Oceangate allowed to bypass the classification societies like DMV and Lloyd's Register and operate as a "for-hire" carrier with paying customers?
Submersibles are not ships. Since they launch from other craft and are not registered, they can get away with it. The issue is why would anyone insure them.
@@wgowshipping Yet the classification societies I mentioned do, in fact certify submersibles. My question then is why is that not a requirement, versus a "nice to have"?
Sal having cover up his glorious Hawaiian shirt with that sport coat means no funny business.
No Bab-El-Mandeb today.
@@balaklava6420 no boozing during this interview
I think the shirt is trying to escape the jacket. Need to tie 🪢 it down.lol
@@JAW1992I bet Sal is also in his underwear and flip flops too
@@samvoulalis205 i love Sal and his shirts, just makes him more human and less the authoritarian expert type, even if he is actually very well connected and certainly very well respected, i could listen to him for hours, ooh i do ! hehe
Legal Vices (attorney who specializes in admiralty law) is commenting on the proceedings live. I had to chuckle when one of his viewers commented something along the lines of "could you get What is Going on With Shipping to comment on the coverage?". The host's reply was essentially, "Sal is huge, he doesn't have time for us." Kind of a roundabout compliment from a fellow You Tuber.
I missed that. Thanks for letting me know.
@@wgowshippingThat’s more than a roundabout compliment.
@@wgowshipping that would be a great show ! Legal Vices does some great maritime content
@@wgowshipping Hey Sal, update us on Dali leaving the USA. Hope she is forever gone.
@@gregoryhumphrey2831 She is sailing for Ningbo via Cape of Good Hope
Watching the hearing, Stockton Rush really was the nightmare spoilt-brat manchild of a person....The tale of him piloting a sub into the wreck of the SS Andrea Doria then initially refusing to handover the controller, only to relinquish it by throwing & breaking it is telling in itself...
Money doesnt mean intelligence. It often implies arrogance and lack of hubris. Rip the four innocent lives.
where are you watching the hearing please ?
Edit - no worries , I found it thanks
@@ThatOpalGuy On the contrary, hubris appears to have been one of the late Mr. Rush's defining qualities. I think you may have meant "humility".
He's crab poop now
well he isn't unfortunately the only ones certain mars obsessed billionaire has pretty much the same mindset.
I love how you threw on a jacket. Highly professional.
I can clean up when necessary...just not often!
Shave would have helped
When the lead engineer says “I’m not getting in that…” (paraphrasing) that should be a huge “red flag”.
As the meme goes: "Sheer. F*cking. Hubris."
His testimony was bizarre. "I'm the most genius engineer in the world and did things at OceanGate that were amazing and I want full credit for that. And....I had nothing to do with any of the actual engineering on the actual submersible at OceanGate". WTF?
@@bees5461 Granted, I did not catch all the testimony etc. Merely stating what I heard via a few “journalist sources”. That said, his statements are a slight “disconnect” on his part.
@@malekodesouza7255 Totally agree with you. And, your original statement is absolutely true as well, I was watching it and you quoted it correctly.
Crazy how the CEO bragged about how undersea vessels in general have a great safety record, but also about breaking rules and not certifying (thus breaking the same rules that makes the others so safe)
Yeah I wonder if their safety record is because of their safety rules
@@SilverStarHeggisist Yes, just like airliners.
@Archangelm127 "Nahh, total coincidence! It's all about being better."
- Boeing CEOs
@@Archangelm127yep air crash happens, investigation is both what happened and lets make it safer.
@@helenllamaon paper but it seems ceo''s are oh okay let's just put that report in the draw and forget about and carry on like normal. we pay a token fine but who cares.
With all the misinformation going on, your videos have been the only ones that I've been using to keep track of what's going on.
Scott Manley had some good videos on the subject. He's been able to compile some good info,
@@dongiovanni4331I agree but talking misinformation why is there a dinky little strap doing which appears to be holding the capsule together??is this really on the ocean floor?I don’t believe anything anymore js
Very good interview Sal.
Scott Manley has a vid explaining the failure.
Definitely worth watching! 😎✌️
Although civilian submersibles are not their usual subject, the logistical and technical understanding of Sal and Aaron really showed during this event. Sal was getting high quality information out there when everyone else seemed to be completely hung up on tapping sounds.
As XCKD said: "You wouldn't really die *_of_* anything, in the traditional sense. You would just stop being biology and start being physics."
A pity they did not show the main body remains. It really put this into perspective.
It's been a while since I've seen XCKD referenced. I imagine it'll take a full day to catch up.
Scott Manley did; you can see it on his latest video. There weren't any visible human remains, just a field of tiny bits and pieces with the other half of the titanium sphere at one end.
@@jonathanbush6197 I know. That is where I saw it.
It was crumpled like a Soda can.
What’s going on with Submersibles … ? Good to see you Sal .. and the Lego Globe 🌎
Looking forward to your full length video on the topic Sal.
I hope, at least that they are right: that the occupants of the submersible were not aware of what happened to them, because it happened so fast.
Implosions usually happen in about .015 seconds. Perception of pain usually takes .25 seconds. As far as they were concerned, they suddenly just weren't anymore.
If they didn't, the crash site would show a seemingly intact but flooded submersible with a microscopic hole.
@@KarlKarpfen I don't think it would even be possible for this type of craft to develop a slow leak.
Either it developed a leak via imploding or it doesn't develop a leak I'm pretty sure.
The images of the collapsed crew compartment are horrifying.
Fantastic interview Sal.
The imploded crew compartment is scattered everywhere at the bottom of the sea bed.
There weren’t any images of the collapsed crew compartment…
@@wrenboy2726 mostly out of respect for the victim's families. And, with that, I agree.
@@wrenboy2726 Yes there are Scott Manley has the footage if your interested. Fox just didn't show them.
@@wrenboy2726 It was actually video. If you go to the USCG Titan hearing page there are links to the two videos that have been released so far. I think there are probably more coming. So far one shows the discovery of the nose cone sitting upright on the bottom in surprisingly good condition. And the second one shows both of the end caps. One of the end caps has a ring that looks like it might be partially attached. Some of the carbon fiber is still attached, a fairly large piece. But it looks like a pile of carbon fiber all smashed together is sitting inside that second end cap.
Sal, as always, your intelligence shines through.This video reminds me why I watch your channel for technical news, and not shows like LiveNOW. I don’t know how you found the forbearance to avoid saying, “I just answered that question 10 seconds ago. Weren’t you listening?”
That there was no one for the main engineer that has been testifying (that wrote up the report to all of the company outlining everything wrong) to go to other than the fool responsible for it all is a rough pill to swallow. You could tell that he probably won't be getting over these events totally even though they were not his fault and he did all he could and was fired for his efforts.
Hubris, some Greek words really nail aspects of humanity.
Awesome to see you gettin the air time! Lookin good.
Either Fox cranked up the exposure or you share an office with the sun. Great interview. Keep up the positive flow of information.
Nice job Sal! Looking good too!
Thank you for keeping up with the trends, as well as using alternative view angles. 😎👍
Great reporting of a sad subject.
Thanks Sal
Well done Sal!
Im glad you found that video. 😊
Love the jacket, but you still got that Hawaiian shirt underneath thumbs up
Great segment Sal! I only have one critic, I think you should of snuck in a Bab al-Mandab randomly towards the end. Haha just kidding, thanks for all your great insights and expertise.
Gotta love the fact check Google added.
Not really a fact check, but added context in this case.
Context?
What I want to know is why the f RUclips feels the need to add a wiki on the Titanic?
That is a good question.
The words "diving on the wreck of RMS Titanic" were included in the video description.
Hi Sal, very professional appearance as always. 📺
So they littered a bunch of steele pipes on the ocean bottom every time?
Good interview ❤
Love the sport coat Doc 😁
Scott Manley has a segment on how the titanium bulkeads were secured to the carbon fiber hull with an adhesive. Industrial adhesives are miracles of technology, but still... An aviation analog of this experimental design would be flying a homebuilt designed to be pressurized up to, say 150,000ft, with passengers on board the first time.
Unbelievable. I hope they recover the wreckage and piece it back together.
The most intresting so far is indeed that the adhesive seem to be the main issue and not the tube hull structure.
Then the horror stories of the former employes are indeed terrifying.
hopefully the knowledge gathered will give us more insights in deep sea vehicles and the possible designs for future projects.
I love how you just put on a jacket to go on "tv" hahahaha my man
This is some wild ship.
Thanks!
Welcome!
why is there a ratchet strap around the fuselage?
I believe there is a peer review process that everyone else used. It was just this one company that ignored it.
There is no peer review per se. It's engineering, not science. There are several organizations that do certification. For that certificate Oceangate would have had to prove that they followed proper procedures, used good materials and practices and did proper tests. The certifiers would have asked some rather pointed questions that Mr. Rush did not like to answer. Hence he did not invite them to talk. Or look.
Our boy Sal on the big screen.
The Backend fell off?
Are you sure you dont mean the Front fell off?
R.I.P. John Clarke
Those who study maritime history know about a novel written 14 years before Titanic sank. The book was "Futility"or "The Wreck Of The Titan". 112 years later, Titanic still holds our interest.
Sal, you covered up that beautiful shirt with a "news worthy" blazer. whats next a submariner and cologne, JK. love the info you put out.
any plan on making video about the constellation and compare it with the lcs project?
1000 tons of tnt force input, thats in not out. it was heard around the atlantic. basically hiroshima level force inwards
Was that a friggin ratchet strap?!?!
Yes. Or rather a "flexible circumferential non-pressure hull binding device". They also had several "ad-hoc quick-installation fixtures" (zip ties) attached to cables and thrusters in place of ordinary old fashioned screws and bolts. With the thrusters reportedly exhibiting a somewhat "stochastic work profile" on occasion.
Exactly the kind of “device” and “fixtures” needed to make inspire confidence with potential clients and passengers…
Liked your shirt, Sal
My thoughts are still with the experts who safely build, test, and use their vessels with purpose rather than profit. Much effort towards designs that have to work the first time or the strict funding is taken away.
This part reminds me of spaceX and their many failures they can afford without risking the funding.
Lmao! I love that you are wearing a dinner jacket over your Hawaiian shirt.
Sal, you dressed up, thank you for your input.
Nice one sal!
What was that black strap for, the one around the body of the wreckage?
So sad to see that, but interesting.
Amazing how the fairwaters are so unaffected by the pressures at depth.
Because they're free-flooding there's no pressure differential to deal with. The net stresses aren't markedly different than sitting on the deck of the launching ship. As long as you don't have bubbles in the material during production (see images of Styrofoam coffee cups taken to depth) there's nothing to fail.
At. :35 sec what is the strap around the Titan FRP hull covering?
Do we really want to know the answer to that given the stupidity of the operation? It could make the situation all the more horrifying. Hoping it was just left overs of the straps that held it down for transport out to the site and not anything...structural...
That holds the covers in place over the machinery and battery components at the rear of the submersible.
@@LackofFaithify It is still a question and it still needs to one of the question asked and hopefully answered at the inquiry.
@@LackofFaithify Yes, we really do want to know the answer, that portion was the aft end of the submersible, as shown in inset illustration at 6:14, and was an unpressurized equipment bay with that strap securing the fairings/shroud which created smoother water flow around that section.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."
-Richard P. Feynman (1918-1988), in his conclusion to Appendix F of the Rogers Commission report on the loss of space shuttle _Challenger,_ 1986
Sal, you said something about no fatalities in submersibles but what about the Russian sub that went down with 118 souls? There was a RUclips video explaining what happened. It was in the Baltic Sea.
Watching you brings up lots of interesting RUclips videos about seafaring!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Submarines and submersibles aren't exactly the same thing. But even so there aren't many fatalities in submarine history if you don't include war losses. Compared to airplanes submarines are very safe, especially since the 70's.
Carbon Fiber is excellent resisting stress in tension. Compression, not so much.
I've been making that point about this for some time. Anybody who knows materials or submersibles could have predicted this, and many did. I'm an aviation nerd, so carbon fiber properties are something I'm familiar with. I saw footage of them winding a tube out of it for the pressure vessel and my first thought was that it would kill people.
At 2:00, was that strap original? It seems out of place.
“I am Ozymandias! King of Kings! Look upon my works, ye mighty, and Despair!”
-Ozymandias
I heard that OSHA was notified of the concerns and issues that the engineer had, but did not follow up.
The only thing still working on the sub....ratchet straps? Fascinating.
Sal‘s not a Hemi driver!
Just being sarcastic, I love your work.
How did that one inch racket strap get wrapped around it
Hubris is how the implosion happened.
I'm wanting to hear more about the use of carbon fiber as a vacuum vs pressure vessel.
Might add shape of the item - it was a cylinder not a sphere and its wrapping was not an X style but round like wire on a winch drum.
Carbon fiber is fine for pressure vessels if you control your seams properly, i.e. the 787 or rocket fuel tanks.
Where this went wrong is the dissimilar material used for the ends. The end caps and the cylinder were always going to compress and expand at different rates, stressing the joint. No adhesive was going to remain sufficiently flexible and strong in that application, especially in the cold water. Metals can deform but carbon fiber fractures, so once the two got far enough apart, the carbon fiber failed.
Definitely a case where there's a legitimate reason we've always done it that way, and there's a strong burden on the newcomer to prove the new way is better.
Did he really just say, "It surfaced during this hearing...." wow
I’d like to know why or how did the ratchet strap get on that piece of the sub
And all of the, um, _contents_ of the sub are in the dome opposite the porthole end.
There’s more footage showing the front hemisphere laying on its own, and the aft portion of the pressure vessel with the mangled remains of the pressure vessel shoved into the aft hemisphere.
Do video about ship RUBY carrying 20 000 tonnes of ammonium nitrate off the coast of norway
Have you seen the situation with MV Ruby and her potentially explosive cargo heading to Klaipeda?
When it comes to the announcement of the hearing I believe it had to be posted in the Federal Register and some newspapers. The problem is, who reads newspapers?
This hearing is for the Marine Board to hear from experts. The hearings to look for are entitled Notice of Proposed Rulemaking.
Hopefully, USCG's Merchant Marine Technical (MMT) will set up a committee to draft rules. This was done for Vapor Recovery. Captain Gordon Marsh, USCG (Retired) led that effort. If I was the USCG I would recruit Gordon to lead the rulemaking process.
This make me think about plane crossing the atlantic and all that died trying.
Sal, another problem with the Jones Act, etc is they just announced our nuclear sub program is $ 17 billion over budget which is enough to buy a new air craft carrier. General David Petraeus just wrote in the WSJ that we need to learn from Ukraine to make less costly weapons. We are just spending money that we no longer have.
Jones Act does not apply to military ship construction. But if we had a larger commercial ship base it would improve our ability to build warships.
The video of the winding of the midsection shows a bad winding pattern. The pattern shows a resistance to radial pressure, but not to columnar pressure. Compare the winding pattern of the submersible to the winding pattern of the space shuttle solid boosters.Secondly, Carbon fibers are notoriously brittle; commingling the carbon with other fibers such as Kevlar or titanium increases the toughness of the material. On the original ice slough tests of the V22 Osprey the ice sloughed by the rotors shattered the carbon fiber body. To overcome the brittleness of the composite other tougher fibers were included in the V22 Body.
... and still then, carbon fiber and other fiber reinforced plastics are strong in tension but practically unsupported by their fibers in compression. Introducing other fibers won't help with this fundamental flaw in the material choice for a submersible, which has exactly one purpose: withstanding repeated cycles of extreme compression loads
@@KarlKarpfen In such composites the plastic body is supposed to take the compression stress internally the fibers distribute the load reducing catastrophic failure. The Plastic is often an Epoxy resin. High pressure/temperature epoxies are fair more able to resist compression. However water weakens epoxies and prolonged water exposure sometimes a cause of the plastic matrix failing. In aquatic applications a top coat of a polyester resin prevents water penetration into the epoxy matrix. So this begs the questions: 1.Was the composite section resin an epoxy? 2.If so was the resin chosen a high compression strength/modulus resin? 3. If so was the composite section autoclaved to the proper specification? 4. If so was there a protective topcoat to prevent seawater from weakening the epoxy? 5.If not what was the resin chosen and why was a weaker, lower modulus resin chosen?
@@moors710 That's right in general, nonetheless, there is no epoxy out there that offers sufficient compressive strength in the wet environment and with the expectable defects.
What I'm trying to say, is he ( Rush) should have concerns of how long the epoxy/ glue would react with temperature changes, repeatedly in water contact, movement of weight of submersible twisting of contact of titanium ring and carbon fiber connection, after time, There probably going to be seperation and gluing it would only last a certain amount of deep dives if even any, only temporary.
Anyone want to explain the strap holding things together in that photo on the ocean floor?
That section is attached to the rear of the Submersible outside the pressure hull. The strap keeps the white covers over the mechanical and electrical components.
@@wgowshipping quality build
That part, the white backend is the non pressurised section.
Fox news doing a great job explaining to people.
Q: Who put the cam lock friction cargo strap around the rear section on the sea floor?
Hawian shirt - jacket combo. Business-aloo.
Love comparing Ocean Gate to Triton Subs. Triton Submersibles pushed the boundaries with their Plexiglas pressure vessel. While not a novel material it was never used in such a way before. They tested and tested and made it work. Titan does something similar but ignores industry concerns and very little testing. I am going to take a guess and say it was a brittle fracture of the composite and or glue around the titanium ring caused by cyclic loading and the different rates of expansion and contraction between the composite and the titanium. No engineer just a mechanic but the design of those areas raises massive red flags for even me.
Of course the globe is positioned correctly 👍
Electric Boat, Newport News, Portsmouth Naval S/Y.
The gurus to get help to design undersea craft.
Yup, Rush will be famous for breaking the rules.
It was not a safe process because a single person could trivially subvert the process.
Submersibles are not really super safe, they are just rarely used (statisitically).
Having a very active imagination doesn't help one looking at that mess....but it makes sense that the failure was probably the glue on the forward titanium ring. This would be the ring that was repeatedly subject to the strain of having the cover bolted on and taken off....
Scott Manley just made a good video.
He was saying they tested it with a steel ring and then glued a titanium one which had a different expansion rate.
Carbon fiber is generally not well suited for compressive loads. It handles tension and shear loads much better.
@@792slayer Carbon fiber handles compressive loads extremely well, compared to most other materials. It just handles other loads so much _better_ that we expect miracle-material performance out of it when it's merely very good.
@@meritwolf219 my understanding from reading the material property sheets a while ago was that under compression, the majority of the strength is provided by the epoxy that bonds the fibers, with the fibers themselves providing relatively little strength in that mode. From what I was able to gather, strength can be increased by using certain weaves or layering methods, but compressive loads aren't where carbon fiber really shines. Granted, I was reading the documents probably 15 years ago for a design project I was considering, so things may have changed.
@@792slayer 'compressive loads aren't where carbon fiber really shines'
I agree completely with this statement, and everything I've learned since this disaster made compressive vs tensile loads mainstream does too. When they were new, these composite materials were miraculous in their strength:weight ratio, ESPECIALLY under tension. My point is just that they aren't, contrary to a lot of comments, unable to bear great compressive loads. They're still very strong, especially in relation to their weight. Where the choice of carbon fiber material likely _truly_ affected these events, it was in denying the (other) passengers of this vessel the audible and visible harbingers of failure that would have given them cause and opportunity to scrub the dive.
As for the rest of what you said, I'm not an engineer or any other kind of skilled professional to argue specific facts.
"At some point, safety is just pure waste" - Stockton Rush
When Sal puts his blazer on, I shut up and listen!
Wow...that is a hell of a blazer.
The Kursk was a submarine accident.
Ah, RIP Juan Tripp. Founder of PanAm he was a "Barnstorner"; dangerous & noisey - then fell in love. Her father refused the marriage, but he found "Betty". Still enjoying dangerous flying experiences,
he founded PanAm. Any expense to protect his flyers. Crazy flying was a private affair. A truly great man vs a gasbag.
it just looks wrong not seeing those shirts!
scott manley made a good video about what he thinks happened based on the released video
The Ocean said, "Who wants to die today?" 😅
"Don't say nothin' SAL !" Vito from the Sopranos.
Lookin good Sal….
You may not write off the technologies abord this submersible, but all experts on submarine engineering wrote off one technology beforehand: fiber reinforced plastic, no matter which kind, especially attempts to sandwich it with titanium
Why? Because it is known that they can't withstand compression loads very well and they do crack ever so slightly with every compression load cycle, so the carbon fiber hull was known to get weaker with every dive. This wasn't theory only either, as in the 1970s, some companies tried that with non-critical submarine equipment to find out that it breaks quickly, but not during the first cycle.
The problem won't get better with a pairing of two different materials with very different shrinking speeds under pressure.
This country needs to be wasting money on hearings concerning why a poorly built sub imploded with rich people on board?!?!
The ratchet strap held on keeping that part together.
Why was Oceangate allowed to bypass the classification societies like DMV and Lloyd's Register and operate as a "for-hire" carrier with paying customers?
Submersibles are not ships. Since they launch from other craft and are not registered, they can get away with it. The issue is why would anyone insure them.
@@wgowshipping Yet the classification societies I mentioned do, in fact certify submersibles. My question then is why is that not a requirement, versus a "nice to have"?
Whoa