Yeah. The thing is that humans can only truly focus for 6 hours at most, that is for very motivated people. For most it is 4. If their mental and physical health is poor due to lack of other activities, sleep, etc, their effectiveness of learning suffers greatly too. And so they gotta spend even more time learning to make up for that loss due to spending too much time on learning. It's a vicious cycle. Also how exams are so based on memorisation and not that much on logic, inventive thinking, wit. Which is what actually makes a good specialist. We have computers to remember details, what we humans must do is train our processing power, finding connections, patterns, solutions to complex problems that require you to think creatively.
the point of school here? Well its useless nobody listens to class at all. The only real point of the schools are to make extremely hard tests to sort out the smart ones almost like searching for gold in a patch of gravel.
You got it. The schools are useless now. My son said that half of his high school classmates would sleep for that very reason because they were so far ahead in the subject(s) at their hagwon(s).
Sounds like the govt should just withdraw funding and give the money directly to the parents / kids to decide where to go. Then wveryone can attend where they want. No unneeded extra class time.
This is bleak. US/Western Europe isn't perfect, but there at least seems to be a basic attitude that high grades aren't everything, and there seems to be a greater emphasis on the holistic well-being of students. I greatly respect South Korea (along with Taiwan, China, etc.) for modernizing so quickly and making themselves competitive in the world economy, but if it comes with crushing loneliness, alienation, and depression, I wonder if all that stress is worthwhile.
"I wonder if all that stress is worthwhile." Perhaps not. * There's a channel who reported about the elderly in South Korea as the poorest demographic. Like, even when their kids who work in major cities or abroad send them money, it somehow doesn't suffice because of how high the cost of living in SoKor has become through out the years. (*I'm not sure if THIS is the channel who covered it or someone else, maybe Asian Boss or Salari?)
*coughs Anti-vaxxers COVID deniers Anti-maskers "Sovereign citizen" QAnon GuNs SaVe LiVeS, mOrE gUnS Climate change deniers "Women can control their intake of semen to prevent pregnancy" and more! Maybe the rigorousness of education plays a part. Maybe not. 🤷🏻♂️
This reminds me so much of my experience as a student in India, although here this phenomenon is limited mainly to the middle and upper middle-class urbanites as Indians are rather poor on average and can't even afford basic education but the situation is much the same as Korea for those who can afford or nearly afford (mainly through debt) coaching. I grew up being told I was a "gifted child" though I have no idea what I did but I managed to score great without effort till 10th grade where we get the first taste of competition as you prepare for "board exams" which are conducted by the education board and not schools and you have to attach these marks to every job application in India till you die, the ideal target is 95% but 90+ works too, I scored 90.4%. In 11th grade you have to choose one of the bundled subject paths, you cannot choose an arbitrary combination like say Economics, Biology and Philosophy. choosing anything except Medical Science (Physics, Chem, Bio) or Non Medical Science (Physics, Chemistry, Math) is considered to be for "dumb and/or ambitionless kids". Entrance exams for federally funded medicine, engineering (IITs) and research(IISc, IISERs) institutes are quite a bit different than what you would learn at school. Only about top 1 % get selected into elite colleges and maybe 5% get into 2nd grade but still good colleges (Province funded colleges) I chose Science not because of parental pressure as many others but because I genuinely liked it (thankfully). Like many others, I was put in a private coaching center for college entrance exams. I took admission in a dummy school i.e. a school where you only go once or twice a month to fill up some paperwork. I spent 6 hours being taught how to solve college entrance exams and 5-6 hours solving the practice questions. This was interrupted by the pandemic which shut my offline coaching off. I switched to an online service, which was trash in comparison tbh. I learnt most of the 12th syllabus on my own. Then I spent literally all of 2021 giving exams, my first was in January and last on October 3rd. It was hell, I had very little free time. My sleep and health were terrible. I was drinking 3 coffees a day and taking Modafinil when coffee didn't work. I finally managed get a great rank and was accepted at one of the top research institutes. Turns out, I was lied to by my coaching gurus. Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows here, if anything it's even worse than 11th and 12h. I have even less time and have to compete with the smartest people in the country for the GPA. I only have a 20% chance of landing a PhD and have no social life. All the problems are hard and requires thinking whereas in high school you just had to do the same type of problem 50 times. Feel free to ask me anything about the coaching cartel or my experiences.
To top it all off, with the introduction of the CUET exam for all central government funded universities and some state universities, more families will feel the pressure of sending their kids to coaching to prepare them for the competition. What was once localized to just technical and medical test prep will now be forced upon all students, regardless of what they want to do.
@@MihikChaudhari not op, but no,gpa is not based on percentile. Those who don't qualify join private colleges or end up in some other stream they don't like becuase the college is good.
@@ta0304 They have reservations for lower cast students you have to score much higher if you're a normal student. I do not in any way support the cast system but there are way better solutions than having "less grades" for lower cast students. I feel free education and free tutoring can be a good start but at the same time I can also undersatnd in some places caste system is still active in india so its a tricky situation. Some regular students also make fake lower cast certificates to get into good colleges becuse they're just lazy.
I have spoken with a person that did English tutoring in South Korea. He realized after a while that the education system there was wildly inequitable and found it laughable hearing comparisons that the US system should be more like Korea's.
@@EventH Like most Asian educational systems the education there is heavily dependent on pure memorization. In the US and usually most western countries, students are taught how to think or approach a problem which in many ways is more flexible in retaining information more effectively for most learners. Plenty of subjects are also not great to learn with just pure memorization alone. Also plenty of exam questions in South Korean exams are often made unnecessary complicated on purpose (mostly to weed out those who didn’t have private education or expensive tutoring).
@@bmona7550 I am pretty sure the "elite" segment of all education systems teach students to think critically. For many, memorization could be a good place to start where they can quickly build up a repertoire of working memory and functional routines to execute the routine tasks. From the efficiency stand point, thinking about a routine issue from too many perspectives is a waste of time. We just need to teach them to use a given (best) approach for a given set of parameters. No need to reinvent the wheel. For the change makers, I agree they should be taught differently, but is there really a market for that many of them?
@@EventH Uh, yes. It's way more use to teach someone to find and proces information than to hand them the information and force them to memorize it. I work urban planning. In 1994, 2008 and next year the ENTIRE system is getting rewritten. Everything is new. People trained based on memorisation basically can become laymen in their profession 1-2-3 times in a career. I can remember a furious debate between legal workers. Memorisation-based HBO grads were screaming that a program we had, which is basically a lie where the government lets farmers pollute heavily above norms now in exchange for a promise to fix it some day, was perfect: it worked. It got the permits. I was one of the people pointing out that we signed for those limits in 2000 AND had later moved the jurisdiction to the EU to save money so we had a binding norm that would be enforced any day now and it would spell disaster. Then someone took it to the supreme court in 2019, who struck the program down. Construction came screaming to a halt because suddenly we were 30 years behind and stuck with entitled farmers used to making millions a year while doing absolutely nothing for the environment. You may have heard of the farmers' riots lately? They even murdered someone recently. In 2017 I was being yelled at by people who insisted that could never happen. Because their knowledge was just memorisation of the current system as it worked then. My company's happy though: We made in excess of 85K damage-controlling the initial shockwave, which is more than my 2015 total revenue.
@@bmona7550 Memorisation is not bad. People can understand content and the memorise. Memorisation is a skill. I am a medical student in the UK. Sometimes memorisation is the only way to keep vital information stored. When I only understood content, I came top 30% of the year. When I memorised, I came top 20%. Koreans also memorise without producing flashcards. They memorise in their head and speak it out. Koreans are very ahead in education. We need to be more like Koreans, not vice versa. The only downsides to Korea is that they suicide a lot and lack religion. That is something that can be addressed if funding is put into ADVANCED mental health support. The keyword being advanced.
I've taught in both China and Korea. I was surprised you didn't mention China until the end because for me the issue is even stronger in China. I remember asking my students in China to draw a dog and they had no idea how to. Although I had students that could memorize pages from a book and produce it perfectly. Their memorization techniques were impeccable and their parents gloated at their childs ability. I've also taught in Brazil where kids for the most part spend their whole teenage years going to parks, flirting with each other and partying every weekend. Brazilian students can't really memorize anything, they can barely focus on anything academic. But they can produce you a beat, dance and make the wildest jokes and pranks with each other. Regardless of how much poorer Brazil is to Korea and China Brazilians are intensely happy. While in China and Korea life is bittersweet at best for adults. Being an educator I know the power of education and even as a student I was never concerned with grades I was always interested in learning. It's a weird thing to create standards for education because we must know how much it is that students are learning and grade them while at the same time knowing that the more we grade the less thirst for knowledge we are teaching since students will learn for the sake of testing and not for learning. It's as if the mere act of trying to asses education itself ruins education.
I mean, the biggest problem with Brazil's education system is the very poor state of our public education. Brazilian students can be very engaged when given the chance, most just lack the necessary opportunities. Perhaps with more investment in our schools' infrastructure and better teachers' salaries we could have more committed students.
as a Brazilian high-school student myself, I can say that although part of this is true (we do like to party and mess around a lot, I won't deny it), we can be really, really invested on our studies. I study in a very well known private school from my state and the scenario for us is pretty competitive. the students with the highest grades (I've been one of them myself) get scholarships depending on our ranking, if we're third, second or first place. Most of the students have private classes after school to focus on studying for the National Exam or other big exams to get into collage. the idea of not being accepted into a public college is an absolute nightmare and many parents take it as a massive failure. obviously, there's an economic factor involved and the situation on public schools might be different, but speaking from personal experience, we're not as reckless as it seems, and we also deal with the terrible effects of educational pressure.
i wonder if the chinese/korean students are just anxious. I had a native english teacher back then and since he didnt speak our mother language and look different than us, we were always quiet and tense eventho all the other teachers say my class is the noisiest/ most active one. i imagine the kids in monoethnicity countries like korea will be even worse
what do you mean we can't focus on anything academic? Brazil high-schoolers are among the most anxious in the world because of pure pressure to enter in a good university. We've a lot of commitment towards our studies. I don't know where you've visited but that only shows your ignorance regarding our nation.
My ex husband was a director at a non-profit agricultural research center here in the United States. The center took on a very nice young Korean man, who was a Ph.D. candidate, as a summer intern. My ex received a call from the students' mother with certain demands with regard to the needs of her son, even his food. He told her that her demands would not be met and that her son did not need to be an intern at the research center. The young man was able to complete his summer internship and the center never heard from his mother again.
Interesting video. I'm the student in SNU(Seoul National University) with ECE (Electrical and Computer Engineering) major. I totally agree with the contents. However, almost of students of our school don't think this is a big problem. Because, first, they are tamed with this system, therefore learnd to overcome and win this competition. (and they are very skillful with) it is obvious for the students that study is 'stressful'. We learn how to do what we don't want to do. More frustrating fact is, as time goes on in this system, people think it is natural, so they don't defy, and just accept this system. It is very hard to see the people who have passion, and love with their major. Different from many worries, most of students in South Korea just live as usual. This is very scary situation that people live without any critical mind. It's hard to express opinion, question, and especially for critical thought even in university. I think this is the main problem of our country.
Except, isn't the leading cause of death of young people in S. Korea suicide? In the rest of the industrialized world, the leading cause of death of people who make it out of infancy, up until old age, is accidents. Only S. Korea has suicide as a top killer. That speaks to a serious illness in the society.
It seems like it would be possible to open a business in South Korea, and hire top talent for cheap if you simply ignored which university they went to. Are there cultural reasons that businesses aren't doing this?
its interesting how you mentioned that even within your degree, people are lacking passion. grades shouldn't be more important than vocation when it comes to choosing a major im currently studying for a very stressful exam in my country by which medical doctors can choose their specialty and be allowed to work in the public health care system. we have to study all day but what keeps people going is the passion we share for our chosen career. studying so hard for a grade itself is awful
I think it is almost universal problem in Asia, this is going on in Thailand too, I was the one with "bad grades" and didn't care much about how my scores looks like, because I want to work in design industry as wished by my parents. Years later I turned around and quit my job because it isn't what I enjoy, I burnt-out, I didn't know what I actually wanted to do until very late. Now I work as an artist as I wanted, but at a very late start, I wished I got to studied what I want from the start, studying art and working in art businesses right away, not this late to the game.
Honestly it feels like they're attacking a consequence rather than the cause, at least from the policies you have mentioned in this video. If getting into a competitive school is the only way to get ahead in life, then parents are going to do whatever it takes to provide that to their children, no matter what regulation is imposed. Gov policy should probably focus on dilluting the importance of those institutions by making a better life more accessible for people with a diverse background. For example, encouraging big companies to take interns and new employees from more instutions, or directly investing in other universities and setting a better quality standard for them, or making sure people have an option to get an accredited degree in big unis later in life by offering spots to older youths. With time this could lead to cultural change as people notice getting into XYZ uni at that particular moment becomes less important. I also support that kind of thing in other countries as well, even if they don't have such an acute problem as East Asian countries.
I think if the average person gets quality education, people will start to realise that prestigious schools are not worth it. We have the same problem in India.
I am Korean and diluting the importance of going to a good college is not as easy as you think. First of all, Korea is a very hierarchical society so the society classifies students by their grades and the prestige of their university. Grades determine students' future because big companies are more likely to hire a student from a prestigious university. In South Korea, people are trying to be hired by big companies because their treatment is better compared to middle-sized companies. Big companies pay workers on time, have better employment benefits and their salary is higher compared to what small businesses can offer.
@@cellsubs6352 I don't think it's easy by any means. What do you think should be done about that, and what interventions do you think have worked the best so far?
The thing is, many immigrants from East Asia carry their ambitions over to their new country. And they'll pressure their kids to study a lot (but maybe not utilize private education services, if it is uncommon in those countries) and may even try to dictate what they should study, the university they choose, and what they study there e.g. try to make them become doctors, or study engineering etc. even if they're not interested or not very suited to that. You've probably heard the statistics about Asian students getting acceptance into top universities in the U.S., and also how they make up large percentages - even majorities - in certain selective high schools where students are accepted through exam scores. In Australia, there have been scandals over exam cheating and rings that sell exam answers to desperate ambitious Chinese parents of students in Australia. In South Korea, many parents who have the money, send their children who have not been doing well academically, abroad to schools in Western countries in order to avoid the system in Korea, which is geared towards the university entrance exams. Their kids study abroad under less intense competition and pressure, and parents hope that they can enter a university there as university entrance in foreign countries are determined in different ways, and may be less dependent upon academic exam scores. Those countries also may have far more universities (e.g. the U.S.) so there's the chance that their kids who are lagging in Korea, will manage to get into a university there - and at leaat return to Korea with a foreign education and English skills, and a degree from some foreign university. Better than the embarrassment of their kids not even getting into say, a 3rd tier university in Korea. They know that kids in othet countries study far less and exams aren't as tough, so they figure their kid has a shot there.
@@SY-ok2dq I'm German and teaching in Korea, and I rather see more competition in Germany (people are a little too relaxed) than the suffering of my students here in Korea.
@@doesntmatter2017 Why would you want it like that? You guys are productive and you make the best quality stuff while not being stressed out like Koreans. You guys literally have a term named after you (German engineering).
@@paulsitt @Paul Sitt I don't want it the Korean way per se, but people definitely need to come back to a little higher standard. This isn't necessarily the case in regards to working and product quality, but the public sector, finance and education. And those play a role in a society's stability, too, as the US prove over the last 5 years. If an educational system outputs vastly uneducated people then you can tell them whatever you want and they'd deem it truth. Now this is just that aspect. But in additional I wrote that I don't like to see the suffering around here. I think there are quite some factors why workethics etc are the way they present themselves here. But this is just my own observation and thought, I don't want to put it out there as some kinda speculation. Essential is, that it deprives the children, adolescents and even young adults of their joy of what they do - even if they are very good at it. It cuts down creativity. And it narrows down the content to such an extend (e.g. a lot of history lessons but only about Korea) that it is dangerous again. So I will just give ywo examples for what I meant: the mathematical problems they have to solve are really difficult (but they follow strict patterns in almost all cases, so there is little need for mathematical sense if you just follow the regime). The vocabulary they have to deal with in English classes and exams is beyond any German level... Both aspects would help to make the highs higher and show students that there is so much more. It qould however require shifts in educational approaches and the goals people set up. This all comes to the purpose of educational and we might just disagree there anyhow, but I wanted to make this clear: neither system is close to perfect, but everyone could take the good aspects from what others do and evolve incrementally
I was in Turkey for the entirety of my school life until postgrad. Middle school to high school, high school to university, every parent signs up their kids to cram schools whether the kids want it or not. Public schools are generally extremely subpar in education due to low funding, and there is literally no incentive for anyone to take up teaching unless you have a moral drive for it. Cram school teaching always pays much better. Except for coastal cities, Anatolia still lacks the labor quality and money to improve their situation; and even if they do, nearly every family wants their kids to go to the big cities and grow up to become doctors and engineers, naturally. Last I heard, specialized schools (chemistry, mechanics, tourism etc.) are better equipped then ever but people still hesitate to send their kids there, I guess technician and service industry positions are still looked down upon.
@@JoeOvercoat Vocational schooling is frowned upon everywhere. Moving from Cambodia to Canada, everyone wants me to get into Uni. Even here in Quebec where people put a much bigger emphasis on college, people still push for others to try to get it over with it as quickly as possible to go to uni.
@@RichArchilles vocational schooling and apprenticeships are both pretty respected here in Germany. The vocational system is more developed and regulated than in many countries. Though admittedly people with Abitur (the equivalent of a highschool degree) are still expected to go to Uni rather than learning a trade or vocational degree.
funding isn't everything bro. it's teaching quality that makes the difference. and there are tons of highly paid teachers that suck at teaching too. That whole narrative actually did raise teachers' pay in a lot of schools and they still suck. the unions just grew and clamped down even harder on any change. "Cram school teaching always pays much better". You know what that means? private is better. You can teach anything you want, really in cram school, but you're going to have to teach what people demand. The fact that cram schools teach what schools teach already shows there isn't going to be a massive divergence away to random useless topics. People ultimately want what gets them ahead, including making money, so staying on topic will always be kept in check by consumer demand. If we moved away from government schooling maybe we can actually teach kids with skills that make money when they graduate.
Mixed with Charbols, the dominance of a few industries with insane competition to get in, and this private tutoring problem really paints a bleak picture of a whole nation without a childhood.
When I taught in Korea, children would regularly mention suicide. I had to stop a kid from committing suicide during class. I will never return to S. Korean, ever.
Chaebol situation is improving. Startups are booming these days in Korea, with critical government support. A long way to go, but we may be at an inflection point. I foresee a lot of new wealth created and many more billionaires in the coming decades, getting free of chaebol’s control in the economy.
I was surprised you didn't mention South Korea's high suicide rates, when you briefly touched on the topic of social problems like depression caused by the education drive.
Very interesting subject, particularly because in Egypt we've been battling with this since the 90's. It started with only a couple of classes before exams, in few years it had developed into fully fledged economy. Some of the reasons are: low teacher income, university capacity couldn't keep up with rising number of high school graduates so the race for better grades began, technical education is considered inferior by most people, private education destroyed the idea of equal opportunities that had been a core value of Egyptians since the 50's, and general sense of unequality. I really wished this video essay ended with Koreans finding some clever way to end this phenomenon, but that would be too easy huh 😀, our problems are too similar. Wish you all luck. Great video!
You’d figure if the Egyptians were doing the same thing, then their country would be doing as well as the Koreans, but that sure ain’t the case. The Pisa rankings have East Asian countries in the top ten, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Arabian countries were way lower. Obviously there’s a lot more to these rankings than just classroom time - innate intelligence matters as well.
you dont need more schools for a growing population, you need a new goverment complex in the desert, to further seperate the rich, this will surely fix all the problems.
I'm glad you mentioned China in the end. South Korea's inability to eliminate private education had me wondering how China would fare. Of course they are far more equipped to handle the issue than 1980s South Korea, but its hard to imagine any country winning a battle against moms without resorting to violence.
@@DwAboutItManFr Private tutoring isn't form of opposition against state education, rather it's more as attempt to enhance oneself to be able to maneuver through the state education in the best way could be achieved, thus sideline empowerment of the education that at the end only increase the burden of the education system and society as whole into the near breaking point. It's unlike those private tutoring that the West thought about, this is as being said a supplementary education course being add onto children after done with their school in daily, cutting more one's life of leisure in their youth just to add more edge in academic and extracurricular achievement.
@@williemherbert1456 cram schools in south east asia are a sign of failure for the education system. Students shouldn’t be forced to attend them just to be able to pass or to have good grades
I have been attending private tutoring since class 7, preparing for the Joint Entrance Exam in India, and I can say it's harsh. The lengthy teaching periods last in excess of 7-8 hours and the competition. You are never good enough, and most of the time you feel stupid in front of other "intelligent'' students which takes an enormous toll on self-confidence. Most of the time the teachers don't care and keep on teaching.
Lol, tutoring since class 7 seems like a stuuuupid thing to do. You should tutor toddlers, to form their personality and core intellect skills strong, which also lays groundwork for social skills. You forget to do that and then the psychologically and intellectually weak teenagers cannot even learn and compete properly.
Talk about treating the symptom rather than the cause. Surely the problem isn't the desire for tutoring, but the fact that entry to prestigious universities is seen as a win-lose result for the students. In the UK and US we have universities that similary offer a huge boost to your career if you graduate there. But the outcomes for people at the next tier are also fine. South Koreans need to feel that they can still have a good life if they don't get into a top 3 university and that means having a more equitable society in general. Especially one that's less dependent on huge corporations providing the only good jobs.
This whole private tutoring thing looks like all the kids preparing for the basketball championship and nobody telling them that all the short, fat or clumsy kids will be better of doing something else.
Speaking of tutoring = low fertility: One chart showed how people in China's Shanghai, Beijing, Jiangsu, Zhejiang (the wealthiest regions) had the highest PISA scores in the world in all three categories. I recently read an article where a Chinese researcher (who must have had access to data that I don't) said that while the Total Fertility Rate in China is 1.25, in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and Shenzhen it is only 0.7. That is an astonishingly low TFR! Having lived in Shanghai for many years, I increasingly meet young married couples who opt for a dog or cat instead of a child.
Yes, investment in education and mortgages and car loans are crushing young people, and their wages from work are spent forever on these expenses until retirement. Such a life is meaningless. Therefore, the vast majority of young people choose not to marry and have children and not to buy a house. Life is only a few decades, and they can enjoy material life as much as possible with the money they earn.
@@jackzhou4813 the big point of having children was to have them helping parents and neighbors around, they could also look after each other and find their own food in some circumstances... cramless barbarians 😝
@@jackzhou4813 Yes, that is also the reason given by some of my friends. They have a choice between putting all their money and time into a child for 24 years and doing nothing else, or enjoying life while remaining childless.
India also has the same problem. For every Entrance exam there are private tutoring centres. They charge fees at extortionate rates. The problem is that majority of Indian's are poor and people get debt ridden trying to give their children education.
I'm currently a teacher in one of those hagwons. Preparing children from the age of 3 to accept this lifelong system where they will spend all their hours sitting in a classroom writing and memorising. I don't intend to continue for much longer, but I feel like a hypocrite nonetheless- not only because I'm making my living being part of the problem here, but also because I know I could never have handled this myself as a child. Even in an admittedly sub-par state education in the UK I was a burnt-out student by the age of 13, and I suffered with depression during my teenage years...if I had been born here, I would have become just another of those youth suicide statistics. I know it.
A mark of prosperity in societies like this is to be so rich that your kids don't have to give a crap about these moronic tests and educational institutions.
Not really, the three richest (some use this as a measure of prosperity) people in Korea spent significant time doing these moronic tests and went to educational institutions - two are Seoul National University alums and two then went to Harvard. There of course needs to be a balance (I would look towards Scandinavia) for a much more holistic approach to education with excellent results. However, to dismiss standardized/formal education as moronic is itself, moronic. I cannot think of a single 'prosperous' nation that has/is not making education a priority but there are numerous examples where it is not a priority and their societies suffer for it.
@@docentofkathu Problem is the Scandinavian - really mostly it's the Finnish who made it work - model has rarely been replicated. The South Korean model is far more common. Look at that PISA rankings chart - most of the nations in the top places there are more like SK than Finland.
@@docentofkathu He's not criticizing education in general. He's criticizing the unnecessary barriers to success in education, which create extreme pressure on children and cost a significant share of household income. It's not even an education competition to be a good engineer/doctor/lawyer/etc, it's targeted at getting into an elite university. If the number of elite colleges were 30 instead of 3, there wouldn't be so much competition for an artificially-scarce resource. Students would still need to learn to a high level, but not kill themselves while doing so. Finland manages to educate their populace without this collective drain on society.
I believe in India there are similar things going on with the students regarding their after school classes and thinking about it makes me feel how stressful would that be for the young ones.
I am both a byproduct of the Taiwan education system as well as the American public school system during the late 80s and early 90s. My mother was a high school teacher in Taiwan for 14 years before we immigrated to the US and one of the deciding factors for my parents to making that decision was indeed their feelings toward the very system that they excelled, and one that my mother was a part of for more than a decade. While they had excelled, they did not enjoy the rigorous and monotonous standardization that the system was turning out. Yes, we excelled in the math and sciences but in the process of that they felt the children were becoming nothing more than a piece of the machine. While the west lagged behind in math and sciences in early elementary, those types of math and sciences were considered basic and before leaving Taiwan my parents had bought a bunch of various tutoring materials that were common place for children older than us that we would learn at home. The arts and language classes my parents could not help us with as English was not their strong suit but the math came second nature. Then again, the math that I had learned in 2nd grade already had surpassed what would be taught in elementary school. The majority of my time was simply to learn the English language and to navigate my way through school life. It's strange to see how the education system here in the US has in many ways become the very system that my parents tried to get me and my sister from in Taiwan. It isn't about learning. It's about how to do well on standardized tests so that schools may continue to receive state and federal funding.
It's a bit of a smug reality in Europe that "Our 7/10 is worth 9/10 in an Ivy League American university". We were then shocked by tales of how people in the US scored extra grades by doing.... sports. Or get actual grades for volunteer work. I mean, what on earth? A lot of the focus is on skills, not memorisation. Memorisation can be made obsolete easily, skills, not so much. I see that a lot in my company. We work urban planning with a focus on the legal side. I still have to turn down a lot of people with good grades because they don't get the system, they just memorised what the system is now, or was then. Which in a profession that suffers legal shockwaves like the 2008 rewrite of the law, the 2019 Nitrogen Crisis or the coming 2023 'Surroundings Law' change is a very dangerous way of running your profession: Entire chunks of what you know can be invalidated overnight. So I only want people who 'get it' and what specifically they know is something we'll adress on-the-job. People from cram schools would be downright useless to my company, good to make work as an intern to fill out the basics, but nothing more.
Fortunately, I feel that, at least in the US, the importance of *which* university you attend is fairly low - mainly because we have so many educational institutions here that it would be overly tedious to try and figure out whether a given college/university is considered "prestigious". Law and upper business management are exceptions, I think.
I'm from Canada and I studied business at the University of Toronto. I was always perplexed as to how competitive Asian societies were with respect to schooling and how different it was from how school culture was in Ontario especially when you meet students from such regions while in university and compare how they got here. While I do think my South Asian familial background did influence my perceptions of the importance of school and success at it, I never really felt one bit of enduring stress throughout high school or when entering university. Of course, I speak for myself and not for others who may have different experiences. I never felt that my classes were that difficult, there were no standardized tests whatsoever, especially in Grade 11 and Grade 12 (your entrance to university depended on class marks, volunteering, and pitching yourself to the university) and I never went to any tutoring for any classes seeing that I had no need for it. I can assure you that I'm not *that* smart of a person and I also went to average urban public high school in downtown Toronto. On the topic of tutoring, my parents spent more on me learning Arabic and Spanish than they ever did on any school tutoring. We also never saw our fellow students as potential threats to ourselves and always worked to support each other when need be. When I told these things to my university pals from East Asia back then, they were often aghast at how different our experiences were just to get to the same place. To me, the stress of schooling in Asia speaks to how different the development of the institution of education is from other regions of the world and prior predicaments/culture/policies inform the way a kid grows up and the hurdles he must face.
Education in East Asia in general is important then you add if they were children of immigrants (from any country) whom is usually more educated and driven then the country they are from so they expect the same from their children so the result is a student who is extremely focused on education. Of course there are exceptions.
If you talk to any students from any elite public and private high schools in US, they will tell you the stress and pressure is every bit as intense as these Asian schools. The fight to get in Ivy Plus is no less vicious than the fight to get in SKY in Korea.
Canada's success wasnt built on rhe competitive superiority of its citizenry. The generations that did that in Canada is long dead. Also Canada has abundant natural resources something which nearly all of the Tiger economoes lack. So they focus on improving the one thing they have. People. That requires competition. Westerners would never understand that for the same reason that their ancestors have already done the heavy lifting plus most of the New world economies had aquired virgin lands that had untapped resources which worked as force multplier for economic growth. US, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru(not that rich) are examples for resources surplus nations. East Asians have very little of that.
I can't speak for Korea, but here in Japan most of school is just a waste of time for actually learning things, especially the cram stuff. Yes it will help you pass your tests, that's what it is designed for. But It doesn't actually make you any more educated. Educational systems here are optimized to produce nice looking metrics like test scores. It's not helped by the fact that many of these countries are rather lacking as democracies. Japan for example has had the same party in rule for something like 90% of the time since post war. They've shaped the school to produce a type of citizen that isn't interested in changing or questioning the status quo. Think about what that means in terms of education, and learning.
I am glad that you mentioned a similar situation in China. The underlying reason for the obsession with private tutoring is that people in East Asian countries cannot accept that they and their descendants are not in the elite class. On the contrary, the middle-class in US/Western Europe countries will not try to change their social hierarchy.
Because today, education in the US has little to do about changing your social hierarchy. Because college education is so expensive now days, you may end up with 6 figure student loan debt, and NO guarantee of a high paying job. Also because you can find a very high paying job in the US even without a college education, if you have the right skills. Most employers in the US don't care if you went to a prestigious university. In Asia people really care if you went to a big name university.
They desperately want to be like their Western colonizers. This also ties in with the skin bleaching and the whole "caucasianized" obsession. Looks, clothing, culture.
I work as a teacher in Brazil, and around here the South Korean model of education is highly praised by sectors of the press linked to a liberal-capitalist worldview and by private foundations, linked to banks, that are in the education business. The discourse is always the same: education in South Korea has leveraged the development of the country, but almost nothing is said about the intense pressure to which the students are submitted and the psychological problems resulting from such pressure, as if the human beings did not matter, only the economic figures.
@@pranayamfamily But sadly it’s a sacrifice that have to be done. If you look at countries that aren’t industrialized..... they will have an hard time to catch and probably won’t be ble to catch up in the near 100 years. It’s a tough competition worldwide. The reason why many poor people risk their life dying in mediteraneean seas, Darien Gap....is for that ECONOMIC SUCCESS that bring jobs (better job, better halthcare, better life). Jobs came from eduated smart entrepreuneur that dare to take risk and sacrifice. Asians kids are getting richer faster than white kids nowadays.
@@YouYou-sm8tf Sorry friend but I cannot agree with the idea that in order to build rich nations and societies we must disregard people's physical and mental health, demanding that they make sacrifices so that in a hypothetical future their children or grandchildren have a better life. I believe, supported by the theory of PROUT, of the social thinker P.R. Sarkar that the economy must be geared towards meeting the basic needs of people, respecting their full right to physical, mental and spiritual development. As I said earlier, it makes no sense to live in rich societies where people get sick to build that wealth.
After watching korean reality TV quizzes, I notice most korean celeb memorize some of the most useless things ever. There’s also this bogus belief that some how “smart people” look or dress a certain way. The chase of prestige is why I think why korea has a debt crisis. Its like living and keep up appearances in Beverly hills but on a massive scale.
Something interesting to note about the Internet curfews covered at 11:40: There was another piece of legislation passed in 2011 called the Shutdown Law (colloquially referred to as the Cinderella Law) intended to curtail video game/internet addiction. This is a topic which is consistently near the top of South Korea's mind with regards to future generations, and similar laws had been proposed since at least the early 2000s (which is around when online gaming really started to gain traction in SK). In a nutshell, the law prevented children 16 years old and younger from accessing the Internet from midnight to 6AM. From what I've read, the curfew wasn't particularly effective at limiting Internet use; the Internet blockers required you to enter your state ID to access the Internet, but kids were able to either forge IDs or just buy others online to bypass the checks. The Shutdown Law was abolished in 2021.
Interesting stuff, but I am somewhat wary of the age of some of the data you use. The year 2000 was 22 years ago, after all, and I imagine that things could have changed notably since then.
This is a huge problem in India as well, along with the constant pressure for taking up a STEM oriented career, with alternatives being strongly frowned and ridiculed upon. Never had to go through the enormous pressure and rat race associated with Indian undergraduate entrance exams for engineering or medicine thankfully.
Back in the 90's I read a book called "Shogun's Ghost" about the state of the Japanese education system from postwar to the 80's. There are quite a few parallels between the development of the two systems during that same time period.
This really remind me of a discussion I had with a South Korean student at my university in Canada. We started a discussion about why Adolf Hitler invaded the USSR and I countered most of his argument easily because I had a better grasp of the history of that period. He still really liked talking about it and said he wished he could study history instead of economics. I asked him why not do that since that's what would make him happy and he said his parents would never approve. Really breaks my hearth. Education is a mean of economic improvement, but also it just makes you a better fully formed adult. Depriving kids of art so they can study for meaningless test is hearth-breaking. I know I could do this because I was really privileged, but I wished everyone enjoyed the same privilege I did to follow what interested them.
It's worth noting that in the 1960s only a few percent of people in Europe went to university. So we have to be careful to compare other countries past policy with our country's current situation.
Koreans are still struggling with a very narrow definition of success, still defined as getting into one of the SKY unis. Their best hope is a more diverse population (immigrants, 2nd and 3rd generation Korean-Westerners) to come to Korea and broaden what success is. (and hopefully government will stay out of the way)
@@renoramadhanalmaghribi that feels like a lot of modern day schooling in general. Modern day slaves to consumerism with an education that’s keeps them “in the box”
Thank you for covering this issue. South Korea is a country without many natural resources other than its people. This is probably the primary reason why there is so much emphasis on education. Though education in SK is, more or less, seen as a way to increase your earning potential more than anything else. The pervasive culture of hyper-competition under the neoliberal order is what motivates so many to spend so much on the education of their children. It might be well-intended but, this incessant and unrelenting pressure to do well in school in order to increase the chance to get into one of the SKY universities to increase the chance for potential earnings, I feel, in many ways, is a very sophisticated form of child abuse. Because of this, I think so many Korean children aren't able to mature mentally, emotionally, and intellectually to become well-rounded individuals. The high rate of depression and suicide and family estrangements in SK are no accidents. Any household with any income to spare put their children through hagwon rotations after school. A lot of kids come home past midnight after all the different hagwon. It would be interesting to see you cover the corrupt education system in SK. From what I hear so many professors bribed their way into tenured positions.
Not everyone is studying 16 hours a day. Large majority of the students take private tutor/study groups but there are those two let their kids do what they are gifted in. They're not large but not as uncommon as you might think
Maybe because not all kids study 16 hours a day and instead some spend that time to play video games? Use ur brain. It’s not a paradox, just flawed reasoning and generalization.
@@onesteeltank a lot of people do study that much, so your explanation is also wrong. People do study a lot in korea, but… *not everyone*. How hard is that to understand
I am curious if all these private education actually produce more productive workers. I don't mean if they can take tests better, but rather if they lead to better employees in companies.
@@Noelciaaa Yes, but they don't need masses of innovators. You only need one Steve Job and the other 100,000 are just engineers bringing his vision to life. What I am asking is if these schools make better engineers.
@@magnetospin Nope, innovation doesn't just mean big things like this. Simple improvements in workflow, introducing new technology, management styles, some small scale entrepreneurship. Which is needed so that we keep improving as a society.
@@Noelciaaa No, not really. I work in engineering. You don't need any of those stuff for 99% of the workers. You just need them to learn the technology and apply it.
3:10 THIS IS FACTUALLY WRONG. While the German trade unions have always been staunch advocates of Germany's dual track vocational training system, they have never been involved in shaping its curriculums. The author probably got the "trade unions" mixed up with the "chambers of trade" or some similiarly sounding technical term in literature translated from German. These chambers are not "trade unions" but "unions of employers" for each sector of trade and industry where membership is mandatory. It is the umbrella organisations of these chambers (i.e. representing EMPLOYERS, not workers) who work closely with the state educational authorities in aligning German trade school curriculums with evolving requirements.
Very similar situation exists here in India too.... Usually people with money send their kids to foreign countries and the rest like me have no choice but to sit in the cut throat competition where winner gets all and loser nothing
Being able to score high on a test is one thing. The ability to think outside of the box and deal with real life problems is another. No matter how high the test results are, it's meaningless if it comes at the cost of high youth suicide rates.
@@ph11p3540 Oh yeah? Is this why Japan, S. Korea, has so many successful Artists and Scientists? Or is this why, China is leading so many high-tech industries (See Asianometry videos b4 spitting shit)? Dollar per dollar, they are more innovative, and creative than anything coming out of US or even Europe. What's happening here is the payback of Asia's rapid growth. Europe or the US don't have this problem because, they didn't have to "catch up" with anyone. What the west achieved in 4 or 5 centuries, Asia is having to achieve in 4-5 decades. That's gonna cause some fundamental damage no matter what.
@@ph11p3540 not that the problem being the culture of individualism & personal uniqueness vs collectivitism & social harmony but its more about the obsession with academic performance vs the actual quality needed to function like a decent human being and enjoying life
@@aniksamiurrahman6365 China could never be the country it is today without major help from USA and outsourcing. To say that China did everything on its own is not true. The same applies to US as well.
@@203_BoyThis applies to everyone. But those aren't help. This is what established powers do to reduce their cost/raise their profit, to grow their spehere of influence, to raise another nation as a counter-weight to some rival etc. For China-US relation, all of these apply. But so does Roman-Germania relation that resulted in Germanic kings conquering all of Europe after Rome fell. This is a recurring theme in civilization.
These types of education systems completely cancel out the point of schools making them only there to make extremely hard and memory based tests. So many of the tests rely on just braindead memorization its crazy. I cant even tell if we are learning shit or just staring at a piece of paper hoping that we remember it. We also cant leave out the fact that if you didn't get used to it at a early age or came to korea without preparing for the education system your completely screwed.
It should be mentioned that university admittance is based solely on the national test scores. Korean kids don't get to spend any time with sports, theater, hobbies, extra curricular activities or community work, since none of this is considered to assess the candidates. It's very sad
Yes, same thing is happening in China right now. Recently China banned the massive private tuition industry - so long as the subjects is already taught in schools. But this ban is just pushing all the private tuition to go underground. And I really hope they know what is happening. Banning it should never be the solution. A better option is competiton: schools should compete with the private tuition industries. And to do this well, the school teacher have to be well paid to make dedicated to their jobs. And definitely those who can pay for the tuition, should somehow be made to pay for the school system as well - as compared with the present everyone pay the same rate policy.
15:00 - Poland has almost equal score to korean in 2 categories and "out of school education" in Poland is marginal phenomenon mostly used for student with poor results to catch up. In media for years i can hear that education in Poland is shity and underinvested xD
Honestly, I would't say that it's marginalized and only for students with poor results. I've seen plenty of my former classmates (high school, wanting to be doctors) attend private lessons because they wanted 100% on the after high school exam.
smaller countries have a higher chance to be efficient. The larger the system the harder it gets to keep it agile. Prussia had a revolutionary education system. Germany now is middle class and dragged down by low performing, poor or migrant piupils and inclusion. The pisa studies red marking for social background can be read as if you live in a rich area you have a pretty good chance, in a poor area then you public education will be shit. I assume Estonia has less gaps and is also not a major immigration country. Not saying that their system isn t better or they don t earned it. What most likey also contributes is that many European countries have social systems so the pressure to climb the social ladder is less than in asia.
Lack of immigration is a big factor. As an educator in America our immigrant students easily take 5x as much resources (teacher focus and budget) as non-immigrant pupils.
Estonia generally ranks good at everything because they're Finland #2. Also PISA rankings are quite problematic, what they test for is in many cases rather problematic. Literature, for example, doesn't make the cut, I can't really comprehend how they can, with good conscience, have a "reading comprehension" score without including it. Sure it probably doesn't make much sense to test Chinese on Goethe and Germans on Laozi interpretation, it's not a thing that can easily be compared between countries, but it's still highly important. It also ignores creativity not to mention character development. Countries like Finland and Estonia don't get the scores they do by trying to optimise their PISA scores -- they have a well-rounded education that isn't overloading the kids so they're not burned-out mindless zombies when they take the test.
Very interesting. I grew up in a country that prioritized the arts, athleticism, physical labor. Kids were usually mocked & bullied for studying in their free time. I've seen studies saying that educational cramming actually does more damage than good, to both the mind & one's physical health.
@@aniruddhadebnath4621 Relax man, people of Asia have many positive traits. Good work ethics for example. But do you understand that this 10 extra IQ points mostly mean just somewhat better mathematical competence, right? If you focus on cramming too much, this specialized competence useful mainly for engineers may have a very high cost. Why would you want to make every kid focus on math? It is insanity of the older generations forcing that focus.
Even within the US, there are communities that put immense pressures on families to devote significant resources to private high school education, tutors, athletic trainers and consultants in the quest to get their kids into the Ivies. I’ve seen it in parts of California and NYC, as well as its wealthy suburban areas. I’m sure it happens in other pockets of the US as well. Kids are put under enormous stress by their families and peers during those high school years. Some families would pay exclusive private tutors sometimes north of $1,000 per hour. Perhaps it’s only happening at higher income levels. I’ve seen very little discussion anywhere about this.
The US always scores worse than China, Russia and Korea in international Olympiads, but people from all over the world want to live in US and come to US.
In my country there are alot of similar problems. 70% of education is private and public schools are literally garbage. In my school practically everyone had a tutor, i was a bad student with or whithout one lol but I'm still fine in uni. Strangely i never felt particularly stressed, i felt like americans were more stressed because they basically have to do everything themeselves at a young age, like choosing your classes. I still ended up at a good university and i plan on making school happy for my kids
This PISA ranking is such a trash. Politicians operating after these rankings, graphs and diagrams make the educational system (and everything else) even wore or much worse. We had this debate in Germany in the 2000s and now almost everyone agrees on the PISA ranking beeing stupid.
It's so amazing how fast South Korea Modernized from such a back water country. We're seeing Trends in Africa replicate what happened with China's development from the 1970s regarding the youth moving to the cities. We're also seeing China replicate what happened to America regarding how parents didn't want their kids to work in the factories when factory worker wages still provided an access to the middle class in America.
Fascism, it gets results, until it collapses, then blood flows and millions die. South Korea is about 10-20 years away from that final stage of fascism. Best case, fascism is crushed after 30 years. It's been 30 years, and South Korean society is already straining. Many fascist regimes persist for 50-70 years, though, and I have a feeling South Korea will fall into that category. The support they receive from the US is enough to keep them afloat. Increased militarism is the key sign of a failing fascist regime, and South Korea is aggressively checking that box. And please, don't tell me that South Korea is a democracy. If you believe that, you have never visited the country for more than a few weeks, and you don't actually know South Korean people (well, maybe you do, but the ones you know benefit from the fascist government, so your view is twisted). South Korea will collapse, and this education problem is simply a single crumb that comes from the crumbling of the fascist cookie.
Chinese Parents didn t want their childreen to become workers the CCP on the other hand tries to achieve that as they see the influx of cheap labour from the countryside (non residence) dwindle. And many Chinese factories are quite different from the Americans ones I guess or do their workers sleep in factory dorms...
@@saml7610 Democracy leads to 30 trillion dollars being squandered by politicians who buy votes with money. Boomers hold their left hand out with 30 trillion dollars of debt that produced in 20 years while holding their right hand out to demand Social security & Medicare money.
@@Monsterpala In America you had a coal mining state reject a Hyundai auto factory because it wasn't going to be a 1950s style factory that had little automation.
I recall looking at the PISA results in terms of hours spent and for my country versus china and the excess study was of the order of three years of accumulated actual schooling over the course of ten years. So when PISA was comparing education between my country and the Chinese representatives, it was literally like comparing 15 year olds with 18 year olds in terms of their relative abilities, if actual inputs accounted for much. Curiously there was only a .3 sigma difference is scores for all that extra effort(when adjusted for demographics) which reflected the purported IQ differential. ie it seemed like the 3 years extra schooling made almost no difference.....
Just to note that my home country of Singapore is the highest ranking across all PISA subjects. Given that China does not allow for representative sampling and pre-selects its candidates from specific schools.
@@TheReferrer72 We also hold one of the world's highest life expectancies, although admittedly not as high as Japan. Our children are quite stressed though, that is true
@@TheReferrer72 Still it’s better than if your kids is starving oe take them on a long dangerous journey to get to wealthier country thinking it will be better. It’s a sacrifice that East asians countries had to do to create their wealth. Money don’t fall from a tree. And hardwork isn’t enough if there is no long term benefit and produtive. Most of he high tech sector are mainly asian centered....even in western countries
I’ve always wanted to understand what was going on with SK’s education system and this was the foundation I needed. Is it bad that I’m glad I’m not one of these students… I understand if any of us were in that situation we’d handle it somehow but as an Asian-American I prefer what I’ve got any day.
3:25 they werent wrong. Also the German unions arent stupid enough to engage in activities that hamper economic growth factory stagnations and are thoroughly localized. Germans also have an excellent industry academia pipeline.
plus Germans were already accustomed to being an industrialized society. S.koreans didnt have that luxury. Plus N.Koreans werent exactly nice to them, kind of sets a bad precedent.
You are right. Id say the main reason why the German system works is that the companys actually pay their tainees and by that they cant afford bad training that leads to nothing. I never heard that the unions have a say in the exams. Im quite sure that this claim is just not true. Because all this quality-control, grading and standartisation stuff is done by the IHK "Industrie-und-Handels-Kammer" which means "Chamber of Commerce and Industry" that is a semi official institution by/ from the employers/companys that are a member of it and by that can offer IHK-grade trainings wich is basically a must-have. Almost noone does non-IHK-grade trainings in the private sector. And of course in Germany there is and allways was a certain lack of human resources so noone could afford to just exploit the people as if they where slaves as well as training a inefficient workforce.
i used to live in china and this is also an issue there, these problems will keep getting worse unless the governments of countries experiencing it does something about it, it will have severe negative impact in the future when these students enter the workforce because they will probably experience health issues at a young age
So its basically those students who can handle tremendous stress and pressure eventually go into the top universities and land those high risk high reward jobs
I'm currently employed at an English tutorial center in the Philippines, where all my students are from South Korea. The expectations of the parents are high. One of my students was expected to learn words like "adjourned" or "commandeer" - words not suitable for everyday conversation. I attempted to change her book, but her mother, who is also a school teacher, refused and was adamant that we were on the right track. The following week, I was assigned to a different student. Another student of mine broke into tears in the middle of reading a novel. She was frequently compared to her more intelligent cousins. I tried to cheer her up. I told her that grades are not important, although in Korean society that is far from the truth. Both of these girls are around 14-15 years old, and they are already burdened with an immense amount of pressure. They sleep past midnight just to finish their homework, and during classes I watch them pluck the edges of their eyebrows while trying to summarize a one-page essay, taking thirty minutes of a two-hour session.
Remember paying hundreds of dollars for the most recent edition of a textbook, despite a cheap second hand copy of the first version with only a few differences being available. Private education is a car; where public the bus and train. The degrees of freedom are deceptive since one student paying more to develop their intellect, increases the cost for another child to achieve the same
Is this tutoring happening at pre-college education only or include college education? If this is happening only at pre-college education may be the Government should focus more on developing many more Colleges and improving the quality of existing Colleges to fix the bottleneck that trigger excessive tutoring.
This is quite strange from a UK perspective, We used to have a system where there where two levels of public schools Grammar and comp, where you sit a exam to get into into the grammar school. This was a way for poorer but still academically bright students to get a private school experience (the Grammar schools would often out score the private ones in terms of performance) and the comp was for vocational skills. Then our Labour party banned Grammar schools and just sent everyone to the same secondary schools. At the same time the discipline in the state schools went off a cliff as corporal punishment was banned along with restricting the schools ability to kick bad students out severely hurting everyone who can't afford private schools.
One thing not mentioned : the equalization of middle school and high school is "coincidentally" the years President Park's only son entered middle school and high school. Basically the president's son did not have sufficiently good grades to go to an upper tier school, so the government abolished the entrance exam.
It all boils down to the fact that -> Schools/Teachers aren't fullfilling their roles properly. If students were taught properly (explaining the coursework effectively and teaching how to *think* and solve problems) there wouldn't be an incentive to join these private coaching centers. The same goes for Universities, Most of the universities are medicore with poor teaching (same problem as above), the demand for *GOOD* universities is very high and supply is extremely low. leading to the stress as mentioned in the video. Supply must meet demand in order to address this issue. Given that not every university or school can access good teachers, there should be a rework as to how things are taught (especially in mediocre schools/universities) making use of extremely good online resources (videos, exercises etc explaining the subject) in schools + having teachers assist students in solving the doubts alone after the videos are watched, can be a way in combatting the quality of education provided, leading to better educated indiviuals which is the whole point imo.
XD The demand for the TOP universities is truly high. And it's not only top teachers that make those schools - it's mostly top students - geniuses and the progeny of the cream of the society. The GOOD schools give you far weaker connections - connections being the true benefit of the Unis. Why do you think Scouts come from Harvard?
I think their curriculum demands too much(for example math). So teachers in school can’t teach their students what they need. Teachers don’t care if their students understand what they taught because they have million things to teach. And students who can’t catch up wind to go to “hagwon” or private tutoring.
While there are many incompetent teachers out there, most other teachers can't fufil their role because of poor payment, lack of funding and lack of support from administrators.
this is what happens when the measurement becomes the objective. ask any of these kids about what they think is wrong about society and how to fix it and they'll look as educated as a 5-year old.
I don’t think anyone who is commenting “Was it really worth it to-“ have never understood what it is like to be truly impoverished. Ravaged by war, famine, disease, corruption, and all other horrible things. This was the only way for Korean society to industrialize with the rest of the developed world. I can guarantee you they would still rather be rich and miserable than poor and miserable.
India has similar situation in education. And EdTech in India is growing and education is seen as a market to make profit. Make a video on India education system and its EdTech market. Asian culture is impacting education obsession.
But I bet edtech and competition in edtech has shifted the coaching to become affordable and better . For a student it's very convenient to self study from recorded vedios from the teachers you may like , than to go and study from the teachers in offline coaching institutes where if you don't understand anything you are left alone without any support . Nobody needs a teacher for doubt solving today , it's just the perception made by our parents & teachers .The thing to worry is monopoly in the edtech. Ofcourse education is seen as a market to make profit . It starts from schools itself . I was in a reputed school and when my grades were low the principal used to call my parents and threatened them for not letting me give board exams just because it hurts their average results , which they display on big advertisements for admissions . I think the problem will be solved in next 50 years as this generation has experienced the loopholes in the system and are openly criticizing them more than ever . When this generation will become parents they will definitely get the system to correct itself . I believe schools and universities should be a blend of online and offline . 75 percent of the studies which are being taught is just mugging material . These things a student should have freedom to learn online (provided from respective schools itself or other sources). Schools should build emphasis on offline lab work not maintaining written work or mug up work . Same with universities . And there should be a limit on the no. Of teachers . We don't need 20 below average teachers for a subject in a school , we need one or two exceptional teachers who can teach online . This way schools have to pay less for teachers which they can use for building lab infrastructure .
@@seaofcuriosity Nice idea. Govt should provide exceptional teachers recorded video to everyone for free. And school offline should only be for Sports, Laboratory or practical type and Arts.
This is common in Asia. I come from Vietnam. Because of being a gifted kid my parent force me to study so hard that I became depressed (verified by a therapist) for 13 years before treatment
My 6 year old students are shoved around 13 hours a day from one Hagwon to another. By they time they get to my academy, the sit down and fall dead asleep. The Korean teachers come and slap their desks, or on the backs, or spray water in their faces to keep them awake. That is not learning. That is called not loving your child.
they have once a year testing/admission whereas the states has multiple per year. changing this alone will make things less doom and gloom and oh such a big deal.
There are a few problems with multi-year cramming, mainly that unless you introduce outdoor activities and other creativity fostering exercises, you get robots. The latest work in AI is showing how useful people who are incapable of innovating are going to be moving forward... Don't get me wrong, everyone should have a good base in STEM, but if you can only do what a 1980s computer allows everyone to do, then how much value do you really add?
Pretty soon AI will take over many STEM jobs. I mean we can all see it coming like a tsunami wave. Programmers will become extinct within the next 20 years.
You may have mentioned it and I missed it, however my understanding is that many of the positions in the big chaebols basically require a degree from one of the large universities, or somehow being in the in-group of folks who went there. So, its getting into the in-group to get the benefits of that top tier/elite class. Korea, and the US could do well to really look into the German system with tech/vocational schools.
It's even worst here in India. Not just this super hard education but on top that competition here is fierce. Thanks to our population and limited resources.
When the stock market opens late on the national exam day and students can ask the police to take them to the exam venue if they think they are being late for exams, you know how crazy the education system is in Korea.
Beginnings part is wrong… plz do proper research without bias. Korea before Japan education system was worse…they only had 30 schools for royal family and their average life expectancy was 26yro. Japan had to bring their teachers bc there was none in Korea! They still attempted to teach both languages in the schools, even though some Korean teachers wanted to get rid of it! Still they made 1000 schools at the end of 36 yrs, and their life expectancy improved to be 50’s! None of Western colonialism built many schools nor university, but Japan did, and tried very hard to make Korea and Taiwan to be the same level citizens as much as they could losing own money although they were still poor. Have you seen any universities built in India? Africa? South America? Please research more before you gabble on their propaganda of making Japanese look bad to hide their mass killing (they killed 20-25% of their own population) during Korean war. Thank you in advance to do more in depth research in the future.
What's annoying about this whole system is that they don't necessarily teach you about thinking critically or logically. From my experience in Japan, this sort of education mostly teaches memorization. Kids don't get to be kids because they have to go to memorize camp after not learning anything from the day-time school, and they need to go to school on Saturdays as well. Yes kids are like sponges and the earlier years of development are their prime when it comes to learning, but it is inefficient to believe kids have a 6 day 12 hour attention span and that their productivity will not degrade with longer hours.
Similar issues in China although the ban on tutoring is more recent. seems also a generational shift where a lot of parents of younger kids these days don't seem to accept as much discipline on their kids as was common even 10 years back
I think you have to redo your research about the German system. The unions have 0 say in the exams. The exams and the stuff that gets trained is defined by the "IHK" wich is a employer organisation. I would say the factors why the German system works are more general so for the most part the historic as well as present lack of human resources as well as the fact that trainees get payed by their companys.
Perhaps Korea can encourage companies to hire from a variety of colleges. This way, there will be less incentive to try to get into the most prestige colleges and increase diversity of thought.
I think that the people who were building the educational system back in the 50s have miscalculated by ignoring the cultural aspects. The people have certain ideals ("scholar - good, blue-collar worker - bad") that sometimes make them obsessed about certain things like getting into the best of the best unis. Unless the ideals change, the problem of private education mania won't pass. It also seems to be true for places like China, Japan and Singapore.
Exactly. If you trace the problem to its root, the impoverished blue collar workers didn't want their children to go through the hardships that they went through so they fervently began to chase after white collar jobs for their kids and before they knew it the rat race had begun.
I noticed Korean students sleeping through high school classes to attend late-night cram schools. What’s the point of high school then?
Yeah. The thing is that humans can only truly focus for 6 hours at most, that is for very motivated people. For most it is 4. If their mental and physical health is poor due to lack of other activities, sleep, etc, their effectiveness of learning suffers greatly too. And so they gotta spend even more time learning to make up for that loss due to spending too much time on learning. It's a vicious cycle. Also how exams are so based on memorisation and not that much on logic, inventive thinking, wit. Which is what actually makes a good specialist. We have computers to remember details, what we humans must do is train our processing power, finding connections, patterns, solutions to complex problems that require you to think creatively.
the point of school here? Well its useless nobody listens to class at all. The only real point of the schools are to make extremely hard tests to sort out the smart ones almost like searching for gold in a patch of gravel.
You got it. The schools are useless now. My son said that half of his high school classmates would sleep for that very reason because they were so far ahead in the subject(s) at their hagwon(s).
Sounds like the govt should just withdraw funding and give the money directly to the parents / kids to decide where to go. Then wveryone can attend where they want. No unneeded extra class time.
The point of HS is to scope out the LADIES!!
This is bleak. US/Western Europe isn't perfect, but there at least seems to be a basic attitude that high grades aren't everything, and there seems to be a greater emphasis on the holistic well-being of students. I greatly respect South Korea (along with Taiwan, China, etc.) for modernizing so quickly and making themselves competitive in the world economy, but if it comes with crushing loneliness, alienation, and depression, I wonder if all that stress is worthwhile.
US is made of immigrants who are mostly graduates from these top universities
For you, money is what matters the most? success is measured based on your purchasing power in the capitalist society we have.
"I wonder if all that stress is worthwhile."
Perhaps not.
* There's a channel who reported about the elderly in South Korea as the poorest demographic. Like, even when their kids who work in major cities or abroad send them money, it somehow doesn't suffice because of how high the cost of living in SoKor has become through out the years.
(*I'm not sure if THIS is the channel who covered it or someone else, maybe Asian Boss or Salari?)
*coughs
Anti-vaxxers
COVID deniers
Anti-maskers
"Sovereign citizen"
QAnon
GuNs SaVe LiVeS, mOrE gUnS
Climate change deniers
"Women can control their intake of semen to prevent pregnancy"
and more!
Maybe the rigorousness of education plays a part. Maybe not. 🤷🏻♂️
ʙᴇᴛᴛᴇʀ ᴛʜᴀɴ ʙᴇɪɴɢ ᴀ ᴛʜɪʀᴅ ᴡᴏʀʟᴅ ᴄᴏᴜɴᴛʀy
This is absolutely insane. I thought I hated school in the US. I would've lost my mind in this system.
it kinda shows that a lot of the school systems around the world have their significant flaws and consequences. Nothing is perfect after all.
As an Asian, I agree.
@@kenbistro7358 You are not "an Asian." He is "a white." You are normal.
People who can't even handle this will not make it in life. I'm pretty sure you make nothing a year.
@@edenassos 🤭
This reminds me so much of my experience as a student in India, although here this phenomenon is limited mainly to the middle and upper middle-class urbanites as Indians are rather poor on average and can't even afford basic education but the situation is much the same as Korea for those who can afford or nearly afford (mainly through debt) coaching.
I grew up being told I was a "gifted child" though I have no idea what I did but I managed to score great without effort till 10th grade where we get the first taste of competition as you prepare for "board exams" which are conducted by the education board and not schools and you have to attach these marks to every job application in India till you die, the ideal target is 95% but 90+ works too, I scored 90.4%.
In 11th grade you have to choose one of the bundled subject paths, you cannot choose an arbitrary combination like say Economics, Biology and Philosophy. choosing anything except Medical Science (Physics, Chem, Bio) or Non Medical Science (Physics, Chemistry, Math) is considered to be for "dumb and/or ambitionless kids".
Entrance exams for federally funded medicine, engineering (IITs) and research(IISc, IISERs) institutes are quite a bit different than what you would learn at school. Only about top 1 % get selected into elite colleges and maybe 5% get into 2nd grade but still good colleges (Province funded colleges)
I chose Science not because of parental pressure as many others but because I genuinely liked it (thankfully). Like many others, I was put in a private coaching center for college entrance exams. I took admission in a dummy school i.e. a school where you only go once or twice a month to fill up some paperwork. I spent 6 hours being taught how to solve college entrance exams and 5-6 hours solving the practice questions.
This was interrupted by the pandemic which shut my offline coaching off. I switched to an online service, which was trash in comparison tbh. I learnt most of the 12th syllabus on my own. Then I spent literally all of 2021 giving exams, my first was in January and last on October 3rd.
It was hell, I had very little free time. My sleep and health were terrible. I was drinking 3 coffees a day and taking Modafinil when coffee didn't work.
I finally managed get a great rank and was accepted at one of the top research institutes.
Turns out, I was lied to by my coaching gurus. Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows here, if anything it's even worse than 11th and 12h. I have even less time and have to compete with the smartest people in the country for the GPA. I only have a 20% chance of landing a PhD and have no social life. All the problems are hard and requires thinking whereas in high school you just had to do the same type of problem 50 times.
Feel free to ask me anything about the coaching cartel or my experiences.
Is GPA based on your percentile like in JEE?
Also what have any of your peers who didn't score particularly well in JEE do?
To top it all off, with the introduction of the CUET exam for all central government funded universities and some state universities, more families will feel the pressure of sending their kids to coaching to prepare them for the competition. What was once localized to just technical and medical test prep will now be forced upon all students, regardless of what they want to do.
@@MihikChaudhari not op, but no,gpa is not based on percentile.
Those who don't qualify join private colleges or end up in some other stream they don't like becuase the college is good.
@@ta0304 They have reservations for lower cast students you have to score much higher if you're a normal student. I do not in any way support the cast system but there are way better solutions than having "less grades" for lower cast students. I feel free education and free tutoring can be a good start but at the same time I can also undersatnd in some places caste system is still active in india so its a tricky situation. Some regular students also make fake lower cast certificates to get into good colleges becuse they're just lazy.
Bruh I have been there. Do yourself a favour and head out to Western Europe while you can, if you want to make a real impact.
I have spoken with a person that did English tutoring in South Korea. He realized after a while that the education system there was wildly inequitable and found it laughable hearing comparisons that the US system should be more like Korea's.
How is SK education system "wildly inequitable " compared to the ones in other countries?
@@EventH Like most Asian educational systems the education there is heavily dependent on pure memorization. In the US and usually most western countries, students are taught how to think or approach a problem which in many ways is more flexible in retaining information more effectively for most learners. Plenty of subjects are also not great to learn with just pure memorization alone. Also plenty of exam questions in South Korean exams are often made unnecessary complicated on purpose (mostly to weed out those who didn’t have private education or expensive tutoring).
@@bmona7550 I am pretty sure the "elite" segment of all education systems teach students to think critically. For many, memorization could be a good place to start where they can quickly build up a repertoire of working memory and functional routines to execute the routine tasks. From the efficiency stand point, thinking about a routine issue from too many perspectives is a waste of time. We just need to teach them to use a given (best) approach for a given set of parameters. No need to reinvent the wheel.
For the change makers, I agree they should be taught differently, but is there really a market for that many of them?
@@EventH
Uh, yes. It's way more use to teach someone to find and proces information than to hand them the information and force them to memorize it.
I work urban planning. In 1994, 2008 and next year the ENTIRE system is getting rewritten. Everything is new.
People trained based on memorisation basically can become laymen in their profession 1-2-3 times in a career.
I can remember a furious debate between legal workers. Memorisation-based HBO grads were screaming that a program we had, which is basically a lie where the government lets farmers pollute heavily above norms now in exchange for a promise to fix it some day, was perfect: it worked. It got the permits.
I was one of the people pointing out that we signed for those limits in 2000 AND had later moved the jurisdiction to the EU to save money so we had a binding norm that would be enforced any day now and it would spell disaster.
Then someone took it to the supreme court in 2019, who struck the program down. Construction came screaming to a halt because suddenly we were 30 years behind and stuck with entitled farmers used to making millions a year while doing absolutely nothing for the environment. You may have heard of the farmers' riots lately? They even murdered someone recently.
In 2017 I was being yelled at by people who insisted that could never happen. Because their knowledge was just memorisation of the current system as it worked then.
My company's happy though: We made in excess of 85K damage-controlling the initial shockwave, which is more than my 2015 total revenue.
@@bmona7550 Memorisation is not bad. People can understand content and the memorise. Memorisation is a skill.
I am a medical student in the UK. Sometimes memorisation is the only way to keep vital information stored.
When I only understood content, I came top 30% of the year. When I memorised, I came top 20%.
Koreans also memorise without producing flashcards. They memorise in their head and speak it out. Koreans are very ahead in education. We need to be more like Koreans, not vice versa.
The only downsides to Korea is that they suicide a lot and lack religion. That is something that can be addressed if funding is put into ADVANCED mental health support. The keyword being advanced.
I've taught in both China and Korea. I was surprised you didn't mention China until the end because for me the issue is even stronger in China. I remember asking my students in China to draw a dog and they had no idea how to. Although I had students that could memorize pages from a book and produce it perfectly. Their memorization techniques were impeccable and their parents gloated at their childs ability. I've also taught in Brazil where kids for the most part spend their whole teenage years going to parks, flirting with each other and partying every weekend. Brazilian students can't really memorize anything, they can barely focus on anything academic. But they can produce you a beat, dance and make the wildest jokes and pranks with each other. Regardless of how much poorer Brazil is to Korea and China Brazilians are intensely happy. While in China and Korea life is bittersweet at best for adults. Being an educator I know the power of education and even as a student I was never concerned with grades I was always interested in learning. It's a weird thing to create standards for education because we must know how much it is that students are learning and grade them while at the same time knowing that the more we grade the less thirst for knowledge we are teaching since students will learn for the sake of testing and not for learning. It's as if the mere act of trying to asses education itself ruins education.
I mean, the biggest problem with Brazil's education system is the very poor state of our public education. Brazilian students can be very engaged when given the chance, most just lack the necessary opportunities. Perhaps with more investment in our schools' infrastructure and better teachers' salaries we could have more committed students.
Brazil is the superior nation. China should model itself to be Brazil 2.0.
as a Brazilian high-school student myself, I can say that although part of this is true (we do like to party and mess around a lot, I won't deny it), we can be really, really invested on our studies. I study in a very well known private school from my state and the scenario for us is pretty competitive. the students with the highest grades (I've been one of them myself) get scholarships depending on our ranking, if we're third, second or first place. Most of the students have private classes after school to focus on studying for the National Exam or other big exams to get into collage. the idea of not being accepted into a public college is an absolute nightmare and many parents take it as a massive failure. obviously, there's an economic factor involved and the situation on public schools might be different, but speaking from personal experience, we're not as reckless as it seems, and we also deal with the terrible effects of educational pressure.
i wonder if the chinese/korean students are just anxious. I had a native english teacher back then and since he didnt speak our mother language and look different than us, we were always quiet and tense eventho all the other teachers say my class is the noisiest/ most active one. i imagine the kids in monoethnicity countries like korea will be even worse
what do you mean we can't focus on anything academic? Brazil high-schoolers are among the most anxious in the world because of pure pressure to enter in a good university. We've a lot of commitment towards our studies. I don't know where you've visited but that only shows your ignorance regarding our nation.
My ex husband was a director at a non-profit agricultural research center here in the United States. The center took on a very nice young Korean man, who was a Ph.D. candidate, as a summer intern. My ex received a call from the students' mother with certain demands with regard to the needs of her son, even his food. He told her that her demands would not be met and that her son did not need to be an intern at the research center. The young man was able to complete his summer internship and the center never heard from his mother again.
The arrogance of people here can be mind-numbing at times. I'm glad your ex stood his ground. Trust me, the intern was probably very embarrassed.
Interesting video. I'm the student in SNU(Seoul National University) with ECE (Electrical and Computer Engineering) major. I totally agree with the contents.
However, almost of students of our school don't think this is a big problem. Because, first, they are tamed with this system, therefore learnd to overcome and win this competition. (and they are very skillful with)
it is obvious for the students that study is 'stressful'. We learn how to do what we don't want to do.
More frustrating fact is, as time goes on in this system, people think it is natural, so they don't defy, and just accept this system.
It is very hard to see the people who have passion, and love with their major.
Different from many worries, most of students in South Korea just live as usual. This is very scary situation that people live without any critical mind. It's hard to express opinion, question, and especially for critical thought even in university.
I think this is the main problem of our country.
Except, isn't the leading cause of death of young people in S. Korea suicide? In the rest of the industrialized world, the leading cause of death of people who make it out of infancy, up until old age, is accidents. Only S. Korea has suicide as a top killer. That speaks to a serious illness in the society.
It seems like it would be possible to open a business in South Korea, and hire top talent for cheap if you simply ignored which university they went to. Are there cultural reasons that businesses aren't doing this?
its interesting how you mentioned that even within your degree, people are lacking passion. grades shouldn't be more important than vocation when it comes to choosing a major
im currently studying for a very stressful exam in my country by which medical doctors can choose their specialty and be allowed to work in the public health care system. we have to study all day but what keeps people going is the passion we share for our chosen career. studying so hard for a grade itself is awful
킹울대..
I think it is almost universal problem in Asia, this is going on in Thailand too, I was the one with "bad grades" and didn't care much about how my scores looks like, because I want to work in design industry as wished by my parents.
Years later I turned around and quit my job because it isn't what I enjoy, I burnt-out, I didn't know what I actually wanted to do until very late. Now I work as an artist as I wanted, but at a very late start, I wished I got to studied what I want from the start, studying art and working in art businesses right away, not this late to the game.
Honestly it feels like they're attacking a consequence rather than the cause, at least from the policies you have mentioned in this video. If getting into a competitive school is the only way to get ahead in life, then parents are going to do whatever it takes to provide that to their children, no matter what regulation is imposed. Gov policy should probably focus on dilluting the importance of those institutions by making a better life more accessible for people with a diverse background. For example, encouraging big companies to take interns and new employees from more instutions, or directly investing in other universities and setting a better quality standard for them, or making sure people have an option to get an accredited degree in big unis later in life by offering spots to older youths. With time this could lead to cultural change as people notice getting into XYZ uni at that particular moment becomes less important. I also support that kind of thing in other countries as well, even if they don't have such an acute problem as East Asian countries.
Exactly!! Good point
I think if the average person gets quality education, people will start to realise that prestigious schools are not worth it. We have the same problem in India.
I am Korean and diluting the importance of going to a good college is not as easy as you think. First of all, Korea is a very hierarchical society so the society classifies students by their grades and the prestige of their university. Grades determine students' future because big companies are more likely to hire a student from a prestigious university. In South Korea, people are trying to be hired by big companies because their treatment is better compared to middle-sized companies. Big companies pay workers on time, have better employment benefits and their salary is higher compared to what small businesses can offer.
@@cellsubs6352 That's really interesting. Do you think the culture could ever change? And how difficult would it be to change it?
@@cellsubs6352 I don't think it's easy by any means. What do you think should be done about that, and what interventions do you think have worked the best so far?
and this is why my korean friend fled south korea. he burned out twice before 35. now his kids can enjoy more relaxed german school
The thing is, many immigrants from East Asia carry their ambitions over to their new country. And they'll pressure their kids to study a lot (but maybe not utilize private education services, if it is uncommon in those countries) and may even try to dictate what they should study, the university they choose, and what they study there e.g. try to make them become doctors, or study engineering etc. even if they're not interested or not very suited to that. You've probably heard the statistics about Asian students getting acceptance into top universities in the U.S., and also how they make up large percentages - even majorities - in certain selective high schools where students are accepted through exam scores.
In Australia, there have been scandals over exam cheating and rings that sell exam answers to desperate ambitious Chinese parents of students in Australia.
In South Korea, many parents who have the money, send their children who have not been doing well academically, abroad to schools in Western countries in order to avoid the system in Korea, which is geared towards the university entrance exams. Their kids study abroad under less intense competition and pressure, and parents hope that they can enter a university there as university entrance in foreign countries are determined in different ways, and may be less dependent upon academic exam scores. Those countries also may have far more universities (e.g. the U.S.) so there's the chance that their kids who are lagging in Korea, will manage to get into a university there - and at leaat return to Korea with a foreign education and English skills, and a degree from some foreign university. Better than the embarrassment of their kids not even getting into say, a 3rd tier university in Korea. They know that kids in othet countries study far less and exams aren't as tough, so they figure their kid has a shot there.
They will probably end up on welfare or in a gang.
@@SY-ok2dq I'm German and teaching in Korea, and I rather see more competition in Germany (people are a little too relaxed) than the suffering of my students here in Korea.
@@doesntmatter2017 Why would you want it like that? You guys are productive and you make the best quality stuff while not being stressed out like Koreans. You guys literally have a term named after you (German engineering).
@@paulsitt @Paul Sitt I don't want it the Korean way per se, but people definitely need to come back to a little higher standard. This isn't necessarily the case in regards to working and product quality, but the public sector, finance and education. And those play a role in a society's stability, too, as the US prove over the last 5 years. If an educational system outputs vastly uneducated people then you can tell them whatever you want and they'd deem it truth.
Now this is just that aspect. But in additional I wrote that I don't like to see the suffering around here. I think there are quite some factors why workethics etc are the way they present themselves here. But this is just my own observation and thought, I don't want to put it out there as some kinda speculation. Essential is, that it deprives the children, adolescents and even young adults of their joy of what they do - even if they are very good at it. It cuts down creativity. And it narrows down the content to such an extend (e.g. a lot of history lessons but only about Korea) that it is dangerous again.
So I will just give ywo examples for what I meant: the mathematical problems they have to solve are really difficult (but they follow strict patterns in almost all cases, so there is little need for mathematical sense if you just follow the regime). The vocabulary they have to deal with in English classes and exams is beyond any German level...
Both aspects would help to make the highs higher and show students that there is so much more. It qould however require shifts in educational approaches and the goals people set up.
This all comes to the purpose of educational and we might just disagree there anyhow, but I wanted to make this clear: neither system is close to perfect, but everyone could take the good aspects from what others do and evolve incrementally
I was in Turkey for the entirety of my school life until postgrad. Middle school to high school, high school to university, every parent signs up their kids to cram schools whether the kids want it or not. Public schools are generally extremely subpar in education due to low funding, and there is literally no incentive for anyone to take up teaching unless you have a moral drive for it. Cram school teaching always pays much better.
Except for coastal cities, Anatolia still lacks the labor quality and money to improve their situation; and even if they do, nearly every family wants their kids to go to the big cities and grow up to become doctors and engineers, naturally.
Last I heard, specialized schools (chemistry, mechanics, tourism etc.) are better equipped then ever but people still hesitate to send their kids there, I guess technician and service industry positions are still looked down upon.
How do the testing of the kids changes in time? Do the Turks get smarter?
Vocational schools are also frowned upon by Americans, much to America’s detriment.
@@JoeOvercoat Vocational schooling is frowned upon everywhere. Moving from Cambodia to Canada, everyone wants me to get into Uni. Even here in Quebec where people put a much bigger emphasis on college, people still push for others to try to get it over with it as quickly as possible to go to uni.
@@RichArchilles vocational schooling and apprenticeships are both pretty respected here in Germany. The vocational system is more developed and regulated than in many countries. Though admittedly people with Abitur (the equivalent of a highschool degree) are still expected to go to Uni rather than learning a trade or vocational degree.
funding isn't everything bro. it's teaching quality that makes the difference.
and there are tons of highly paid teachers that suck at teaching too.
That whole narrative actually did raise teachers' pay in a lot of schools and they still suck. the unions just grew and clamped down even harder on any change.
"Cram school teaching always pays much better".
You know what that means? private is better.
You can teach anything you want, really in cram school, but you're going to have to teach what people demand. The fact that cram schools teach what schools teach already shows there isn't going to be a massive divergence away to random useless topics. People ultimately want what gets them ahead, including making money, so staying on topic will always be kept in check by consumer demand. If we moved away from government schooling maybe we can actually teach kids with skills that make money when they graduate.
Mixed with Charbols, the dominance of a few industries with insane competition to get in, and this private tutoring problem really paints a bleak picture of a whole nation without a childhood.
They are a really urbanized society, TFR has already fallen real low.
When I taught in Korea, children would regularly mention suicide. I had to stop a kid from committing suicide during class. I will never return to S. Korean, ever.
*Chaebols
Chaebol situation is improving. Startups are booming these days in Korea, with critical government support. A long way to go, but we may be at an inflection point. I foresee a lot of new wealth created and many more billionaires in the coming decades, getting free of chaebol’s control in the economy.
@@jamesm2441 lol that's wishful thinking
I was surprised you didn't mention South Korea's high suicide rates, when you briefly touched on the topic of social problems like depression caused by the education drive.
Especially when it’s the highest in the world
Very interesting subject, particularly because in Egypt we've been battling with this since the 90's. It started with only a couple of classes before exams, in few years it had developed into fully fledged economy. Some of the reasons are: low teacher income, university capacity couldn't keep up with rising number of high school graduates so the race for better grades began, technical education is considered inferior by most people, private education destroyed the idea of equal opportunities that had been a core value of Egyptians since the 50's, and general sense of unequality.
I really wished this video essay ended with Koreans finding some clever way to end this phenomenon, but that would be too easy huh 😀, our problems are too similar. Wish you all luck. Great video!
I hope Egypt will enter the top 10s in education soon!
You’d figure if the Egyptians were doing the same thing, then their country would be doing as well as the Koreans, but that sure ain’t the case. The Pisa rankings have East Asian countries in the top ten, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the Arabian countries were way lower. Obviously there’s a lot more to these rankings than just classroom time - innate intelligence matters as well.
you dont need more schools for a growing population, you need a new goverment complex in the desert, to further seperate the rich, this will surely fix all the problems.
@@certaindeath7776 I don't support that, man. Most people in Egypt don't.
@@khaldrago911 innate intelligence? Could you elaborate on that?
I'm glad you mentioned China in the end. South Korea's inability to eliminate private education had me wondering how China would fare. Of course they are far more equipped to handle the issue than 1980s South Korea, but its hard to imagine any country winning a battle against moms without resorting to violence.
Hopefully they will fail since state education is absolutely unnaceptable.
@@DwAboutItManFr Private tutoring isn't form of opposition against state education, rather it's more as attempt to enhance oneself to be able to maneuver through the state education in the best way could be achieved, thus sideline empowerment of the education that at the end only increase the burden of the education system and society as whole into the near breaking point. It's unlike those private tutoring that the West thought about, this is as being said a supplementary education course being add onto children after done with their school in daily, cutting more one's life of leisure in their youth just to add more edge in academic and extracurricular achievement.
@@DwAboutItManFr depends where you live, state education in europe generally is really good, especially in northern countries
Oof Asian Tiger Moms up against Authoritarian Governments. It will be a bloody one... To out authoritarian each other.
@@williemherbert1456 cram schools in south east asia are a sign of failure for the education system. Students shouldn’t be forced to attend them just to be able to pass or to have good grades
I am a south Korean and I really do not want my 3 year old son to go through the same experience.
Save him while you still can
Try your best to move
You should move to the US
shouldn't have a kid
I have been attending private tutoring since class 7, preparing for the Joint Entrance Exam in India, and I can say it's harsh. The lengthy teaching periods last in excess of 7-8 hours and the competition. You are never good enough, and most of the time you feel stupid in front of other "intelligent'' students which takes an enormous toll on self-confidence. Most of the time the teachers don't care and keep on teaching.
you CANNOT say this!
@@marvin19966 why not?
@@chromiyum6849 you SHAME INDIA
Does that explain your username? :p I went through the same hell but fortunately made it to somewhere the sacrifice felt worth having
Lol, tutoring since class 7 seems like a stuuuupid thing to do. You should tutor toddlers, to form their personality and core intellect skills strong, which also lays groundwork for social skills. You forget to do that and then the psychologically and intellectually weak teenagers cannot even learn and compete properly.
Talk about treating the symptom rather than the cause. Surely the problem isn't the desire for tutoring, but the fact that entry to prestigious universities is seen as a win-lose result for the students. In the UK and US we have universities that similary offer a huge boost to your career if you graduate there. But the outcomes for people at the next tier are also fine. South Koreans need to feel that they can still have a good life if they don't get into a top 3 university and that means having a more equitable society in general. Especially one that's less dependent on huge corporations providing the only good jobs.
This whole private tutoring thing looks like all the kids preparing for the basketball championship and nobody telling them that all the short, fat or clumsy kids will be better of doing something else.
Yes, the parents of those kids haven't crammed hard enough to get it. One day. One day.
Speaking of tutoring = low fertility: One chart showed how people in China's Shanghai, Beijing, Jiangsu, Zhejiang (the wealthiest regions) had the highest PISA scores in the world in all three categories. I recently read an article where a Chinese researcher (who must have had access to data that I don't) said that while the Total Fertility Rate in China is 1.25, in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and Shenzhen it is only 0.7. That is an astonishingly low TFR! Having lived in Shanghai for many years, I increasingly meet young married couples who opt for a dog or cat instead of a child.
Why hasn't China introduced birthing duty for women yet, it is puzzling.
Not healthy. At basic, the purpose of life is to pass on genes to the next generation. Humans are not beyond that.
Yes, investment in education and mortgages and car loans are crushing young people, and their wages from work are spent forever on these expenses until retirement. Such a life is meaningless. Therefore, the vast majority of young people choose not to marry and have children and not to buy a house. Life is only a few decades, and they can enjoy material life as much as possible with the money they earn.
@@jackzhou4813 the big point of having children was to have them helping parents and neighbors around, they could also look after each other and find their own food in some circumstances... cramless barbarians 😝
@@jackzhou4813 Yes, that is also the reason given by some of my friends. They have a choice between putting all their money and time into a child for 24 years and doing nothing else, or enjoying life while remaining childless.
India also has the same problem. For every Entrance exam there are private tutoring centres. They charge fees at extortionate rates. The problem is that majority of Indian's are poor and people get debt ridden trying to give their children education.
yep, a 100%.
Not to mention governments are more interested in adding new entrance exams instead of solving any structural issues.
@@thelakeman2538 It's not an easy problem to solve, as this video shows.
@@OkarinHououinKyouma Good luck convincing that to Indians
@@OkarinHououinKyouma No we don't.
I'm currently a teacher in one of those hagwons. Preparing children from the age of 3 to accept this lifelong system where they will spend all their hours sitting in a classroom writing and memorising. I don't intend to continue for much longer, but I feel like a hypocrite nonetheless- not only because I'm making my living being part of the problem here, but also because I know I could never have handled this myself as a child.
Even in an admittedly sub-par state education in the UK I was a burnt-out student by the age of 13, and I suffered with depression during my teenage years...if I had been born here, I would have become just another of those youth suicide statistics. I know it.
A mark of prosperity in societies like this is to be so rich that your kids don't have to give a crap about these moronic tests and educational institutions.
Thankfully i escaped the need to care about these dumb tests
Not really, the three richest (some use this as a measure of prosperity) people in Korea spent significant time doing these moronic tests and went to educational institutions - two are Seoul National University alums and two then went to Harvard.
There of course needs to be a balance (I would look towards Scandinavia) for a much more holistic approach to education with excellent results.
However, to dismiss standardized/formal education as moronic is itself, moronic. I cannot think of a single 'prosperous' nation that has/is not making education a priority but there are numerous examples where it is not a priority and their societies suffer for it.
@@docentofkathu Problem is the Scandinavian - really mostly it's the Finnish who made it work - model has rarely been replicated. The South Korean model is far more common. Look at that PISA rankings chart - most of the nations in the top places there are more like SK than Finland.
@@docentofkathu He's not criticizing education in general. He's criticizing the unnecessary barriers to success in education, which create extreme pressure on children and cost a significant share of household income.
It's not even an education competition to be a good engineer/doctor/lawyer/etc, it's targeted at getting into an elite university.
If the number of elite colleges were 30 instead of 3, there wouldn't be so much competition for an artificially-scarce resource. Students would still need to learn to a high level, but not kill themselves while doing so.
Finland manages to educate their populace without this collective drain on society.
its simple really just become elon musk
I believe in India there are similar things going on with the students regarding their after school classes and thinking about it makes me feel how stressful would that be for the young ones.
I am both a byproduct of the Taiwan education system as well as the American public school system during the late 80s and early 90s. My mother was a high school teacher in Taiwan for 14 years before we immigrated to the US and one of the deciding factors for my parents to making that decision was indeed their feelings toward the very system that they excelled, and one that my mother was a part of for more than a decade. While they had excelled, they did not enjoy the rigorous and monotonous standardization that the system was turning out. Yes, we excelled in the math and sciences but in the process of that they felt the children were becoming nothing more than a piece of the machine. While the west lagged behind in math and sciences in early elementary, those types of math and sciences were considered basic and before leaving Taiwan my parents had bought a bunch of various tutoring materials that were common place for children older than us that we would learn at home. The arts and language classes my parents could not help us with as English was not their strong suit but the math came second nature. Then again, the math that I had learned in 2nd grade already had surpassed what would be taught in elementary school. The majority of my time was simply to learn the English language and to navigate my way through school life.
It's strange to see how the education system here in the US has in many ways become the very system that my parents tried to get me and my sister from in Taiwan. It isn't about learning. It's about how to do well on standardized tests so that schools may continue to receive state and federal funding.
It's a bit of a smug reality in Europe that "Our 7/10 is worth 9/10 in an Ivy League American university".
We were then shocked by tales of how people in the US scored extra grades by doing.... sports. Or get actual grades for volunteer work. I mean, what on earth?
A lot of the focus is on skills, not memorisation. Memorisation can be made obsolete easily, skills, not so much. I see that a lot in my company. We work urban planning with a focus on the legal side. I still have to turn down a lot of people with good grades because they don't get the system, they just memorised what the system is now, or was then.
Which in a profession that suffers legal shockwaves like the 2008 rewrite of the law, the 2019 Nitrogen Crisis or the coming 2023 'Surroundings Law' change is a very dangerous way of running your profession: Entire chunks of what you know can be invalidated overnight. So I only want people who 'get it' and what specifically they know is something we'll adress on-the-job.
People from cram schools would be downright useless to my company, good to make work as an intern to fill out the basics, but nothing more.
Fortunately, I feel that, at least in the US, the importance of *which* university you attend is fairly low - mainly because we have so many educational institutions here that it would be overly tedious to try and figure out whether a given college/university is considered "prestigious".
Law and upper business management are exceptions, I think.
50% of ceos, 43% of ceos, and 80% of ceos
I'm from Canada and I studied business at the University of Toronto. I was always perplexed as to how competitive Asian societies were with respect to schooling and how different it was from how school culture was in Ontario especially when you meet students from such regions while in university and compare how they got here. While I do think my South Asian familial background did influence my perceptions of the importance of school and success at it, I never really felt one bit of enduring stress throughout high school or when entering university. Of course, I speak for myself and not for others who may have different experiences.
I never felt that my classes were that difficult, there were no standardized tests whatsoever, especially in Grade 11 and Grade 12 (your entrance to university depended on class marks, volunteering, and pitching yourself to the university) and I never went to any tutoring for any classes seeing that I had no need for it. I can assure you that I'm not *that* smart of a person and I also went to average urban public high school in downtown Toronto. On the topic of tutoring, my parents spent more on me learning Arabic and Spanish than they ever did on any school tutoring. We also never saw our fellow students as potential threats to ourselves and always worked to support each other when need be.
When I told these things to my university pals from East Asia back then, they were often aghast at how different our experiences were just to get to the same place. To me, the stress of schooling in Asia speaks to how different the development of the institution of education is from other regions of the world and prior predicaments/culture/policies inform the way a kid grows up and the hurdles he must face.
Education in East Asia in general is important then you add if they were children of immigrants (from any country) whom is usually more educated and driven then the country they are from so they expect the same from their children so the result is a student who is extremely focused on education. Of course there are exceptions.
If you talk to any students from any elite public and private high schools in US, they will tell you the stress and pressure is every bit as intense as these Asian schools. The fight to get in Ivy Plus is no less vicious than the fight to get in SKY in Korea.
Canada's success wasnt built on rhe competitive superiority of its citizenry. The generations that did that in Canada is long dead. Also Canada has abundant natural resources something which nearly all of the Tiger economoes lack. So they focus on improving the one thing they have.
People.
That requires competition. Westerners would never understand that for the same reason that their ancestors have already done the heavy lifting plus most of the New world economies had aquired virgin lands that had untapped resources which worked as force multplier for economic growth. US, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru(not that rich) are examples for resources surplus nations.
East Asians have very little of that.
Bro wrote an essay☠️
I can't speak for Korea, but here in Japan most of school is just a waste of time for actually learning things, especially the cram stuff. Yes it will help you pass your tests, that's what it is designed for. But It doesn't actually make you any more educated. Educational systems here are optimized to produce nice looking metrics like test scores.
It's not helped by the fact that many of these countries are rather lacking as democracies. Japan for example has had the same party in rule for something like 90% of the time since post war. They've shaped the school to produce a type of citizen that isn't interested in changing or questioning the status quo. Think about what that means in terms of education, and learning.
I am glad that you mentioned a similar situation in China. The underlying reason for the obsession with private tutoring is that people in East Asian countries cannot accept that they and their descendants are not in the elite class. On the contrary, the middle-class in US/Western Europe countries will not try to change their social hierarchy.
Because deep down we know...It's rigged from the start.🤣
Because today, education in the US has little to do about changing your social hierarchy. Because college education is so expensive now days, you may end up with 6 figure student loan debt, and NO guarantee of a high paying job. Also because you can find a very high paying job in the US even without a college education, if you have the right skills. Most employers in the US don't care if you went to a prestigious university. In Asia people really care if you went to a big name university.
They desperately want to be like their Western colonizers. This also ties in with the skin bleaching and the whole "caucasianized" obsession. Looks, clothing, culture.
You made a small error at 5:56. You accidentally captioned all 3 categories as "CEOs". Other than that, good video!
Yes, late night videos can be a challenge 😂
I work as a teacher in Brazil, and around here the South Korean model of education is highly praised by sectors of the press linked to a liberal-capitalist worldview and by private foundations, linked to banks, that are in the education business. The discourse is always the same: education in South Korea has leveraged the development of the country, but almost nothing is said about the intense pressure to which the students are submitted and the psychological problems resulting from such pressure, as if the human beings did not matter, only the economic figures.
The current model is leading assets to self destruct.
@@somedude0921 And building companies with healthy profits in the midst of sick societies.
@@pranayamfamily But sadly it’s a sacrifice that have to be done. If you look at countries that aren’t industrialized..... they will have an hard time to catch and probably won’t be ble to catch up in the near 100 years. It’s a tough competition worldwide.
The reason why many poor people risk their life dying in mediteraneean seas, Darien Gap....is for that ECONOMIC SUCCESS that bring jobs (better job, better halthcare, better life).
Jobs came from eduated smart entrepreuneur that dare to take risk and sacrifice. Asians kids are getting richer faster than white kids nowadays.
@@YouYou-sm8tf Sorry friend but I cannot agree with the idea that in order to build rich nations and societies we must disregard people's physical and mental health, demanding that they make sacrifices so that in a hypothetical future their children or grandchildren have a better life. I believe, supported by the theory of PROUT, of the social thinker P.R. Sarkar that the economy must be geared towards meeting the basic needs of people, respecting their full right to physical, mental and spiritual development. As I said earlier, it makes no sense to live in rich societies where people get sick to build that wealth.
Education didn't grow the development - hard work did. All current graduates want to do now is "sit behind a desk and wear a tie."
After watching korean reality TV quizzes, I notice most korean celeb memorize some of the most useless things ever.
There’s also this bogus belief that some how “smart people” look or dress a certain way. The chase of prestige is why I think why korea has a debt crisis. Its like living and keep up appearances in Beverly hills but on a massive scale.
Although an ever growing debt crisis for workers is of course the goal of capitalism...
That’s why I tell people Korea is like LA if it were a country. So much superficiality.
@@josealc87 true that. I just don't get why people just can't comprehend the idea of having a mixed system between capitalism and communism.
@@jamesm2441 most asian countries have some superficiality attached to them but koreans just takes it to whole other level.
Something interesting to note about the Internet curfews covered at 11:40: There was another piece of legislation passed in 2011 called the Shutdown Law (colloquially referred to as the Cinderella Law) intended to curtail video game/internet addiction. This is a topic which is consistently near the top of South Korea's mind with regards to future generations, and similar laws had been proposed since at least the early 2000s (which is around when online gaming really started to gain traction in SK). In a nutshell, the law prevented children 16 years old and younger from accessing the Internet from midnight to 6AM. From what I've read, the curfew wasn't particularly effective at limiting Internet use; the Internet blockers required you to enter your state ID to access the Internet, but kids were able to either forge IDs or just buy others online to bypass the checks. The Shutdown Law was abolished in 2021.
Never underestimate the ability of children to get something, when they actually want it :D
I loved how the sponsor segment at the beginning didn’t stop the flow of the video, I’ve never seen a RUclipsr advertise like that !
Interesting stuff, but I am somewhat wary of the age of some of the data you use. The year 2000 was 22 years ago, after all, and I imagine that things could have changed notably since then.
I am a student and it is safe to say it intensified to much bigger extent
Very true. Might be worse now.
It's actually even worse now, even in mainland china where they just banned this type of private tutoring
@@Asianometry
Make similar on India
@@Asianometry india has billion dollar private tutoring companies.
This is a huge problem in India as well, along with the constant pressure for taking up a STEM oriented career, with alternatives being strongly frowned and ridiculed upon.
Never had to go through the enormous pressure and rat race associated with Indian undergraduate entrance exams for engineering or medicine thankfully.
Back in the 90's I read a book called "Shogun's Ghost" about the state of the Japanese education system from postwar to the 80's. There are quite a few parallels between the development of the two systems during that same time period.
I'm gonna read that book. thanks for mentioning. Any other book recommendations? Related or unrelated?
This really remind me of a discussion I had with a South Korean student at my university in Canada. We started a discussion about why Adolf Hitler invaded the USSR and I countered most of his argument easily because I had a better grasp of the history of that period. He still really liked talking about it and said he wished he could study history instead of economics. I asked him why not do that since that's what would make him happy and he said his parents would never approve. Really breaks my hearth.
Education is a mean of economic improvement, but also it just makes you a better fully formed adult. Depriving kids of art so they can study for meaningless test is hearth-breaking. I know I could do this because I was really privileged, but I wished everyone enjoyed the same privilege I did to follow what interested them.
It's worth noting that in the 1960s only a few percent of people in Europe went to university. So we have to be careful to compare other countries past policy with our country's current situation.
Really? Also in The Netherlands? Just curious.
Koreans are still struggling with a very narrow definition of success, still defined as getting into one of the SKY unis. Their best hope is a more diverse population (immigrants, 2nd and 3rd generation Korean-Westerners) to come to Korea and broaden what success is. (and hopefully government will stay out of the way)
I wonder how happy these children are.
It's a bothersome life and feels like a product on an assembly line for MNC human resources department
@@renoramadhanalmaghribi that feels like a lot of modern day schooling in general. Modern day slaves to consumerism with an education that’s keeps them “in the box”
I don't know if it's intentional, but having all statistics for CEOs, politicians and judges read CEOs is one hell of a satire
Thank you for covering this issue. South Korea is a country without many natural resources other than its people. This is probably the primary reason why there is so much emphasis on education. Though education in SK is, more or less, seen as a way to increase your earning potential more than anything else. The pervasive culture of hyper-competition under the neoliberal order is what motivates so many to spend so much on the education of their children. It might be well-intended but, this incessant and unrelenting pressure to do well in school in order to increase the chance to get into one of the SKY universities to increase the chance for potential earnings, I feel, in many ways, is a very sophisticated form of child abuse. Because of this, I think so many Korean children aren't able to mature mentally, emotionally, and intellectually to become well-rounded individuals. The high rate of depression and suicide and family estrangements in SK are no accidents. Any household with any income to spare put their children through hagwon rotations after school. A lot of kids come home past midnight after all the different hagwon. It would be interesting to see you cover the corrupt education system in SK. From what I hear so many professors bribed their way into tenured positions.
But can you explain the South Korean Paradox: How can Korean kids study 16 hours a day and still dominate so many competitive online games?
Because half of that 16 hours isn't actually spent studying if you know what i mean
Not everyone is studying 16 hours a day. Large majority of the students take private tutor/study groups but there are those two let their kids do what they are gifted in. They're not large but not as uncommon as you might think
Maybe because not all kids study 16 hours a day and instead some spend that time to play video games? Use ur brain. It’s not a paradox, just flawed reasoning and generalization.
@@onesteeltank a lot of people do study that much, so your explanation is also wrong. People do study a lot in korea, but… *not everyone*. How hard is that to understand
Sigma grinder?
I am curious if all these private education actually produce more productive workers. I don't mean if they can take tests better, but rather if they lead to better employees in companies.
More obedient for sure. But in terms of leading innovation? I would highly doubt that.
@@Noelciaaa Yes, but they don't need masses of innovators. You only need one Steve Job and the other 100,000 are just engineers bringing his vision to life. What I am asking is if these schools make better engineers.
@@magnetospin Nope, innovation doesn't just mean big things like this. Simple improvements in workflow, introducing new technology, management styles, some small scale entrepreneurship. Which is needed so that we keep improving as a society.
@@Noelciaaa No, not really. I work in engineering. You don't need any of those stuff for 99% of the workers. You just need them to learn the technology and apply it.
@@magnetospin wow, that's sad. im glad i changed my career path from this to something else then
3:10 THIS IS FACTUALLY WRONG. While the German trade unions have always been staunch advocates of Germany's dual track vocational training system, they have never been involved in shaping its curriculums. The author probably got the "trade unions" mixed up with the "chambers of trade" or some similiarly sounding technical term in literature translated from German. These chambers are not "trade unions" but "unions of employers" for each sector of trade and industry where membership is mandatory. It is the umbrella organisations of these chambers (i.e. representing EMPLOYERS, not workers) who work closely with the state educational authorities in aligning German trade school curriculums with evolving requirements.
Very similar situation exists here in India too.... Usually people with money send their kids to foreign countries and the rest like me have no choice but to sit in the cut throat competition where winner gets all and loser nothing
Being able to score high on a test is one thing. The ability to think outside of the box and deal with real life problems is another. No matter how high the test results are, it's meaningless if it comes at the cost of high youth suicide rates.
In most east Asian cultures, conformity and not standing out are encouraged. Nails that stick out get the hammer.
@@ph11p3540 Oh yeah? Is this why Japan, S. Korea, has so many successful Artists and Scientists? Or is this why, China is leading so many high-tech industries (See Asianometry videos b4 spitting shit)? Dollar per dollar, they are more innovative, and creative than anything coming out of US or even Europe.
What's happening here is the payback of Asia's rapid growth. Europe or the US don't have this problem because, they didn't have to "catch up" with anyone. What the west achieved in 4 or 5 centuries, Asia is having to achieve in 4-5 decades. That's gonna cause some fundamental damage no matter what.
@@ph11p3540 not that the problem being the culture of individualism & personal uniqueness vs collectivitism & social harmony
but its more about the obsession with academic performance vs the actual quality needed to function like a decent human being and enjoying life
@@aniksamiurrahman6365 China could never be the country it is today without major help from USA and outsourcing. To say that China did everything on its own is not true. The same applies to US as well.
@@203_BoyThis applies to everyone. But those aren't help. This is what established powers do to reduce their cost/raise their profit, to grow their spehere of influence, to raise another nation as a counter-weight to some rival etc. For China-US relation, all of these apply. But so does Roman-Germania relation that resulted in Germanic kings conquering all of Europe after Rome fell. This is a recurring theme in civilization.
These types of education systems completely cancel out the point of schools making them only there to make extremely hard and memory based tests. So many of the tests rely on just braindead memorization its crazy. I cant even tell if we are learning shit or just staring at a piece of paper hoping that we remember it. We also cant leave out the fact that if you didn't get used to it at a early age or came to korea without preparing for the education system your completely screwed.
It should be mentioned that university admittance is based solely on the national test scores. Korean kids don't get to spend any time with sports, theater, hobbies, extra curricular activities or community work, since none of this is considered to assess the candidates. It's very sad
Yes, same thing is happening in China right now. Recently China banned the massive private tuition industry - so long as the subjects is already taught in schools. But this ban is just pushing all the private tuition to go underground. And I really hope they know what is happening. Banning it should never be the solution. A better option is competiton: schools should compete with the private tuition industries. And to do this well, the school teacher have to be well paid to make dedicated to their jobs. And definitely those who can pay for the tuition, should somehow be made to pay for the school system as well - as compared with the present everyone pay the same rate policy.
LLOOOOLL, do you really think that cram schools teach the Little Red Book? Somebody has to XD
@@saldownik yep thats truly delusional take Imo.
@@saldownik bruh
little red book is a fossil now
mao is long dead, no need for any red book
15:00 - Poland has almost equal score to korean in 2 categories and "out of school education" in Poland is marginal phenomenon mostly used for student with poor results to catch up. In media for years i can hear that education in Poland is shity and underinvested xD
Polish people are some of the most hardworking people I know though. I wouldn't be surprised if their kids were of the same caliber
Honestly, I would't say that it's marginalized and only for students with poor results. I've seen plenty of my former classmates (high school, wanting to be doctors) attend private lessons because they wanted 100% on the after high school exam.
@@RikapaprikaI have opposite experience.
@@Khneefer understandable, it might differ based on our location, type of school and area of knowledge (science, medicine, humanities etc.)
15:00 I’m surprised to see Estonia scoring so high on the PISA rankings. I wonder what makes their education stand out against other western nations
smaller countries have a higher chance to be efficient. The larger the system the harder it gets to keep it agile. Prussia had a revolutionary education system. Germany now is middle class and dragged down by low performing, poor or migrant piupils and inclusion. The pisa studies red marking for social background can be read as if you live in a rich area you have a pretty good chance, in a poor area then you public education will be shit. I assume Estonia has less gaps and is also not a major immigration country. Not saying that their system isn t better or they don t earned it. What most likey also contributes is that many European countries have social systems so the pressure to climb the social ladder is less than in asia.
Lack of immigration is a big factor. As an educator in America our immigrant students easily take 5x as much resources (teacher focus and budget) as non-immigrant pupils.
Estonia generally ranks good at everything because they're Finland #2.
Also PISA rankings are quite problematic, what they test for is in many cases rather problematic. Literature, for example, doesn't make the cut, I can't really comprehend how they can, with good conscience, have a "reading comprehension" score without including it. Sure it probably doesn't make much sense to test Chinese on Goethe and Germans on Laozi interpretation, it's not a thing that can easily be compared between countries, but it's still highly important. It also ignores creativity not to mention character development.
Countries like Finland and Estonia don't get the scores they do by trying to optimise their PISA scores -- they have a well-rounded education that isn't overloading the kids so they're not burned-out mindless zombies when they take the test.
It's due to our mongolian heritage :)
Jokes aside, small country + education is highly valued here
@@HYDRAdude I'm interested to know what budget items are directed only to benefit immigrant students? Special books or maybe language barrier stuff?
Very interesting. I grew up in a country that prioritized the arts, athleticism, physical labor. Kids were usually mocked & bullied for studying in their free time.
I've seen studies saying that educational cramming actually does more damage than good, to both the mind & one's physical health.
And where is that
@@angadsingh9314 Mongols are trained in archery and horse riding from the young age. They have throat singing as arts I guess.
No it doesn't.
Taiwan, Korea, Japan produce some of the smartest people in the world.
Average IQ of 110 for these countries
@@aniruddhadebnath4621 Yeah but what good is it if their social when psychological health is damaged by the time they get out of school?
@@aniruddhadebnath4621 Relax man, people of Asia have many positive traits. Good work ethics for example.
But do you understand that this 10 extra IQ points mostly mean just somewhat better mathematical competence, right? If you focus on cramming too much, this specialized competence useful mainly for engineers may have a very high cost. Why would you want to make every kid focus on math? It is insanity of the older generations forcing that focus.
In India they have banned children to go to private tutoring below 16. We are grateful
Even within the US, there are communities that put immense pressures on families to devote significant resources to private high school education, tutors, athletic trainers and consultants in the quest to get their kids into the Ivies. I’ve seen it in parts of California and NYC, as well as its wealthy suburban areas. I’m sure it happens in other pockets of the US as well. Kids are put under enormous stress by their families and peers during those high school years. Some families would pay exclusive private tutors sometimes north of $1,000 per hour. Perhaps it’s only happening at higher income levels. I’ve seen very little discussion anywhere about this.
Yes it's only the upper class idiots. Then they go on to become the CEO's that everyone despises, with a few exceptions ofc.
The US always scores worse than China, Russia and Korea in international Olympiads, but people from all over the world want to live in US and come to US.
In my country there are alot of similar problems. 70% of education is private and public schools are literally garbage. In my school practically everyone had a tutor, i was a bad student with or whithout one lol but I'm still fine in uni. Strangely i never felt particularly stressed, i felt like americans were more stressed because they basically have to do everything themeselves at a young age, like choosing your classes. I still ended up at a good university and i plan on making school happy for my kids
what country?
This PISA ranking is such a trash.
Politicians operating after these rankings, graphs and diagrams make the educational system (and everything else) even wore or much worse. We had this debate in Germany in the 2000s and now almost everyone agrees on the PISA ranking beeing stupid.
80% University attendance and a 0,92 birth-rate?! This is insanity!
The youth just grow dimmer and even high level procreation lessons fail. XD
It's so amazing how fast South Korea Modernized from such a back water country. We're seeing Trends in Africa replicate what happened with China's development from the 1970s regarding the youth moving to the cities. We're also seeing China replicate what happened to America regarding how parents didn't want their kids to work in the factories when factory worker wages still provided an access to the middle class in America.
Fascism, it gets results, until it collapses, then blood flows and millions die. South Korea is about 10-20 years away from that final stage of fascism. Best case, fascism is crushed after 30 years. It's been 30 years, and South Korean society is already straining.
Many fascist regimes persist for 50-70 years, though, and I have a feeling South Korea will fall into that category. The support they receive from the US is enough to keep them afloat. Increased militarism is the key sign of a failing fascist regime, and South Korea is aggressively checking that box.
And please, don't tell me that South Korea is a democracy. If you believe that, you have never visited the country for more than a few weeks, and you don't actually know South Korean people (well, maybe you do, but the ones you know benefit from the fascist government, so your view is twisted).
South Korea will collapse, and this education problem is simply a single crumb that comes from the crumbling of the fascist cookie.
Chinese Parents didn t want their childreen to become workers the CCP on the other hand tries to achieve that as they see the influx of cheap labour from the countryside (non residence) dwindle. And many Chinese factories are quite different from the Americans ones I guess or do their workers sleep in factory dorms...
@@saml7610 lol. Fascism doesn't get results. And if you want to see fascism, check out north Korea
@@saml7610 Democracy leads to 30 trillion dollars being squandered by politicians who buy votes with money.
Boomers hold their left hand out with 30 trillion dollars of debt that produced in 20 years while holding their right hand out to demand Social security & Medicare money.
@@Monsterpala In America you had a coal mining state reject a Hyundai auto factory because it wasn't going to be a 1950s style factory that had little automation.
I recall looking at the PISA results in terms of hours spent and for my country versus china and the excess study was of the order of three years of accumulated actual schooling over the course of ten years. So when PISA was comparing education between my country and the Chinese representatives, it was literally like comparing 15 year olds with 18 year olds in terms of their relative abilities, if actual inputs accounted for much. Curiously there was only a .3 sigma difference is scores for all that extra effort(when adjusted for demographics) which reflected the purported IQ differential. ie it seemed like the 3 years extra schooling made almost no difference.....
Just to note that my home country of Singapore is the highest ranking across all PISA subjects. Given that China does not allow for representative sampling and pre-selects its candidates from specific schools.
Coming top is not an achievement, if it means your children don't have any childhold, and their health is damaged from being sedentary.
@@TheReferrer72 Jelly XD
@@TheReferrer72 We also hold one of the world's highest life expectancies, although admittedly not as high as Japan.
Our children are quite stressed though, that is true
@@TheReferrer72 Still it’s better than if your kids is starving oe take them on a long dangerous journey to get to wealthier country thinking it will be better.
It’s a sacrifice that East asians countries had to do to create their wealth. Money don’t fall from a tree. And hardwork isn’t enough if there is no long term benefit and produtive.
Most of he high tech sector are mainly asian centered....even in western countries
@@John_Smith_86 Singapore is a city not a country.
Korea's overheated education is a tradition that began in the Goryeo Dynasty. I endured in Korea with grit and strength.
I’ve always wanted to understand what was going on with SK’s education system and this was the foundation I needed. Is it bad that I’m glad I’m not one of these students… I understand if any of us were in that situation we’d handle it somehow but as an Asian-American I prefer what I’ve got any day.
3:25 they werent wrong. Also the German unions arent stupid enough to engage in activities that hamper economic growth factory stagnations and are thoroughly localized. Germans also have an excellent industry academia pipeline.
plus Germans were already accustomed to being an industrialized society. S.koreans didnt have that luxury.
Plus N.Koreans werent exactly nice to them,
kind of sets a bad precedent.
You are right. Id say the main reason why the German system works is that the companys actually pay their tainees and by that they cant afford bad training that leads to nothing.
I never heard that the unions have a say in the exams. Im quite sure that this claim is just not true.
Because all this quality-control, grading and standartisation stuff is done by the IHK "Industrie-und-Handels-Kammer" which means "Chamber of Commerce and Industry" that is a semi official institution by/ from the employers/companys that are a member of it and by that can offer IHK-grade trainings wich is basically a must-have. Almost noone does non-IHK-grade trainings in the private sector.
And of course in Germany there is and allways was a certain lack of human resources so noone could afford to just exploit the people as if they where slaves as well as training a inefficient workforce.
@@user-er8tr9kt8l so that's why they are in stone age in digitalization?
@@lenas6246 The private sector is not. Its 'just' the public sector.
Park Chung Hee was so impressed with the FRG industrial and education systems he wanted to emulate them.
i used to live in china and this is also an issue there, these problems will keep getting worse unless the governments of countries experiencing it does something about it, it will have severe negative impact in the future when these students enter the workforce because they will probably experience health issues at a young age
So its basically those students who can handle tremendous stress and pressure eventually go into the top universities and land those high risk high reward jobs
And then they have to work 60 hour work weeks
I'm currently employed at an English tutorial center in the Philippines, where all my students are from South Korea. The expectations of the parents are high. One of my students was expected to learn words like "adjourned" or "commandeer" - words not suitable for everyday conversation. I attempted to change her book, but her mother, who is also a school teacher, refused and was adamant that we were on the right track. The following week, I was assigned to a different student.
Another student of mine broke into tears in the middle of reading a novel. She was frequently compared to her more intelligent cousins. I tried to cheer her up. I told her that grades are not important, although in Korean society that is far from the truth.
Both of these girls are around 14-15 years old, and they are already burdened with an immense amount of pressure. They sleep past midnight just to finish their homework, and during classes I watch them pluck the edges of their eyebrows while trying to summarize a one-page essay, taking thirty minutes of a two-hour session.
Remember paying hundreds of dollars for the most recent edition of a textbook,
despite a cheap second hand copy of the first version with only a few differences being available.
Private education is a car; where public the bus and train.
The degrees of freedom are deceptive since one student paying more to develop their intellect, increases the cost for another child to achieve the same
but cars suck if everyone uses them
@@marvin19966 ...
@@marvin19966 i don't think that was his point
@@onesteeltank Try to deduce a few levels further
@@marvin19966 Feel free to induce from what was directly said.
My daughter taught English in a Hagwon of sorts for a year or so after high school while trying to save money for university.
I cant even begin to imagine staying past 4-5 pm in school...I would go insane
Is this tutoring happening at pre-college education only or include college education?
If this is happening only at pre-college education may be the Government should focus more on developing many more Colleges and improving the quality of existing Colleges to fix the bottleneck that trigger excessive tutoring.
This is quite strange from a UK perspective, We used to have a system where there where two levels of public schools Grammar and comp, where you sit a exam to get into into the grammar school. This was a way for poorer but still academically bright students to get a private school experience (the Grammar schools would often out score the private ones in terms of performance) and the comp was for vocational skills. Then our Labour party banned Grammar schools and just sent everyone to the same secondary schools. At the same time the discipline in the state schools went off a cliff as corporal punishment was banned along with restricting the schools ability to kick bad students out severely hurting everyone who can't afford private schools.
One thing not mentioned : the equalization of middle school and high school is "coincidentally" the years President Park's only son entered middle school and high school. Basically the president's son did not have sufficiently good grades to go to an upper tier school, so the government abolished the entrance exam.
It all boils down to the fact that -> Schools/Teachers aren't fullfilling their roles properly. If students were taught properly (explaining the coursework effectively and teaching how to *think* and solve problems) there wouldn't be an incentive to join these private coaching centers.
The same goes for Universities, Most of the universities are medicore with poor teaching (same problem as above), the demand for *GOOD* universities is very high and supply is extremely low. leading to the stress as mentioned in the video. Supply must meet demand in order to address this issue.
Given that not every university or school can access good teachers, there should be a rework as to how things are taught (especially in mediocre schools/universities) making use of extremely good online resources (videos, exercises etc explaining the subject) in schools + having teachers assist students in solving the doubts alone after the videos are watched, can be a way in combatting the quality of education provided, leading to better educated indiviuals which is the whole point imo.
XD The demand for the TOP universities is truly high. And it's not only top teachers that make those schools - it's mostly top students - geniuses and the progeny of the cream of the society. The GOOD schools give you far weaker connections - connections being the true benefit of the Unis. Why do you think Scouts come from Harvard?
I think their curriculum demands too much(for example math). So teachers in school can’t teach their students what they need. Teachers don’t care if their students understand what they taught because they have million things to teach. And students who can’t catch up wind to go to “hagwon” or private tutoring.
While there are many incompetent teachers out there, most other teachers can't fufil their role because of poor payment, lack of funding and lack of support from administrators.
this is what happens when the measurement becomes the objective. ask any of these kids about what they think is wrong about society and how to fix it and they'll look as educated as a 5-year old.
Ah need to fix one of the slides, the percentages show everything as CEO :)
At 6:05 , it just says CEOs for all three categories
I added a correction note.
I don’t think anyone who is commenting “Was it really worth it to-“ have never understood what it is like to be truly impoverished. Ravaged by war, famine, disease, corruption, and all other horrible things. This was the only way for Korean society to industrialize with the rest of the developed world.
I can guarantee you they would still rather be rich and miserable than poor and miserable.
Everything has it's cost right. The end result will be automation though, no matter how you slice it, AI will dominate.
In the end was it worth it?
India has similar situation in education.
And EdTech in India is growing and education is seen as a market to make profit.
Make a video on India education system and its EdTech market.
Asian culture is impacting education obsession.
But I bet edtech and competition in edtech has shifted the coaching to become affordable and better . For a student it's very convenient to self study from recorded vedios from the teachers you may like , than to go and study from the teachers in offline coaching
institutes where if you don't understand anything you are left alone without any support . Nobody needs a teacher for doubt solving today , it's just the perception made by our parents & teachers .The thing to worry is monopoly in the edtech.
Ofcourse education is seen as a market to make profit . It starts from schools itself . I was in a reputed school and when my grades were low the principal used to call my parents and threatened them for not letting me give board exams just because it hurts their average results , which they display on big advertisements for admissions .
I think the problem will be solved in next 50 years as this generation has experienced the loopholes in the system and are openly criticizing them more than ever . When this generation will become parents they will definitely get the system to correct itself . I believe schools and universities should be a blend of online and offline . 75 percent of the studies which are being taught is just mugging material . These things a student should have freedom to learn online (provided from respective schools itself or other sources). Schools should build emphasis on offline lab work not maintaining written work or mug up work . Same with universities . And there should be a limit on the no. Of teachers . We don't need 20 below average teachers for a subject in a school , we need one or two exceptional teachers who can teach online . This way schools have to pay less for teachers which they can use for building lab infrastructure .
@@seaofcuriosity Nice idea.
Govt should provide exceptional teachers recorded video to everyone for free.
And school offline should only be for Sports, Laboratory or practical type and Arts.
This is common in Asia. I come from Vietnam. Because of being a gifted kid my parent force me to study so hard that I became depressed (verified by a therapist) for 13 years before treatment
Instead, they should try to ban all elementary, middle, and high schools. It might work better if everyone goes to private tutoring all day long.
My 6 year old students are shoved around 13 hours a day from one Hagwon to another. By they time they get to my academy, the sit down and fall dead asleep. The Korean teachers come and slap their desks, or on the backs, or spray water in their faces to keep them awake. That is not learning. That is called not loving your child.
they have once a year testing/admission whereas the states has multiple per year.
changing this alone will make things less doom and gloom and oh such a big deal.
There are a few problems with multi-year cramming, mainly that unless you introduce outdoor activities and other creativity fostering exercises, you get robots. The latest work in AI is showing how useful people who are incapable of innovating are going to be moving forward... Don't get me wrong, everyone should have a good base in STEM, but if you can only do what a 1980s computer allows everyone to do, then how much value do you really add?
Pretty soon AI will take over many STEM jobs. I mean we can all see it coming like a tsunami wave.
Programmers will become extinct within the next 20 years.
6:05 CEO, CEO, CEO. anyone else noticed?
You may have mentioned it and I missed it, however my understanding is that many of the positions in the big chaebols basically require a degree from one of the large universities, or somehow being in the in-group of folks who went there. So, its getting into the in-group to get the benefits of that top tier/elite class.
Korea, and the US could do well to really look into the German system with tech/vocational schools.
@Zaydan Naufal That's what the chaebols are, except they don't only do tech.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn the chae in chaebols already means "big". they were pointing out you were redundant.
@@kalisticmodiani2613 Ah okay. My bad.
5:59 The SKY graduates comprise a whopping 173 % of South Korea's CEOs
In America, they still admit the people who have the most money, not who is most qualified.
It's even worst here in India. Not just this super hard education but on top that competition here is fierce. Thanks to our population and limited resources.
When the stock market opens late on the national exam day and students can ask the police to take them to the exam venue if they think they are being late for exams, you know how crazy the education system is in Korea.
Beginnings part is wrong… plz do proper research without bias. Korea before Japan education system was worse…they only had 30 schools for royal family and their average life expectancy was 26yro. Japan had to bring their teachers bc there was none in Korea! They still attempted to teach both languages in the schools, even though some Korean teachers wanted to get rid of it! Still they made 1000 schools at the end of 36 yrs, and their life expectancy improved to be 50’s! None of Western colonialism built many schools nor university, but Japan did, and tried very hard to make Korea and Taiwan to be the same level citizens as much as they could losing own money although they were still poor.
Have you seen any universities built in India? Africa? South America?
Please research more before you gabble on their propaganda of making Japanese look bad to hide their mass killing (they killed 20-25% of their own population) during Korean war. Thank you in advance to do more in depth research in the future.
What's annoying about this whole system is that they don't necessarily teach you about thinking critically or logically. From my experience in Japan, this sort of education mostly teaches memorization. Kids don't get to be kids because they have to go to memorize camp after not learning anything from the day-time school, and they need to go to school on Saturdays as well. Yes kids are like sponges and the earlier years of development are their prime when it comes to learning, but it is inefficient to believe kids have a 6 day 12 hour attention span and that their productivity will not degrade with longer hours.
Very interesting. I never knew the government has been actively combating this trend for decades.
The Korean government needs to invest more in public education and solve the problem of private education in a hurry!!
Similar issues in China although the ban on tutoring is more recent. seems also a generational shift where a lot of parents of younger kids these days don't seem to accept as much discipline on their kids as was common even 10 years back
I think you have to redo your research about the German system.
The unions have 0 say in the exams.
The exams and the stuff that gets trained is defined by the "IHK" wich is a employer organisation.
I would say the factors why the German system works are more general so for the most part the historic as well as present lack of human resources as well as the fact that trainees get payed by their companys.
Perhaps Korea can encourage companies to hire from a variety of colleges. This way, there will be less incentive to try to get into the most prestige colleges and increase diversity of thought.
6:00 wrong labels? you mentioned 50% ceo, 43% politicians, 80% of judges but the graphic on this says otherwise
I think that the people who were building the educational system back in the 50s have miscalculated by ignoring the cultural aspects.
The people have certain ideals ("scholar - good, blue-collar worker - bad") that sometimes make them obsessed about certain things like getting into the best of the best unis.
Unless the ideals change, the problem of private education mania won't pass.
It also seems to be true for places like China, Japan and Singapore.
Exactly. If you trace the problem to its root, the impoverished blue collar workers didn't want their children to go through the hardships that they went through so they fervently began to chase after white collar jobs for their kids and before they knew it the rat race had begun.