Yup very cool, so you could use a large global inverter that only puts out 230 single phase and make yourself split phase 115 ! --- sheesh I spoke too soon...hahahaha you said it at the end
well if he gets trouble with neutral , and gets only 2 phase in house , he can use it .. with this there wont be any need of dividing the power between 2 phase , to make an imaginary neutral
Hi David, it is a pleasure to greet you from Costa Rica. I see that you are a very skillful and knowledgeable in photovoltaic systems. I tell you about electricity in my country. It also works 120/240 split phase = F1 + N + F2, so all our electrical equipment works at 120v. is that I have an autonomous photovoltaic installation but I bought an MPP-SOLAR inverter the model PIP3024GK exactly and I bought it because it has the ability to work without batteries and without a network, only directly from the solar panels obviously that function during the day but the problem is that the output of this inverter is 230v in the European style and since some in Puerto Rico use an autotransformer to remove the split phase but since it is not an isolation transformer I see it as dangerous I personally would use 2 auto transformers and connect them inverted to remove a phase from each autotransformer and a common neutral but it is a lot of apparatus and it is more expensive so the question is if there is a tran sformer to take that European 230 in a primary winding and deliver it in a secondary winding in split phase thanks I appreciate any help because I could not use this inverter for this matter
I have been in commercial construction for 30 years and have had 100s of times I could have picked up a transformer for free and didn't. I should have double jointed knees so I could Kick My own Ass. I have been waiting for someone in solar to pull out a transformer, 2 thumbs and more up on this.
Setup for 480 to 240 like it was org. use the secondary as the primary feeding the inverter into the the l1 and l2.. the primary posts will become 240 with the H tap jumper as neutral ;-p but keep in mind you limited to the max current of the smallest winding but its fine as your never get close to the limits with that inverter
So you covered it right at the end, the transformer will pull no matter if it has a load or not. What are you going to do with this or just something cool to play with. You are doing a good job but be careful please, I like watching the videos and want to see more.
Hi Charlie, Originally I thought of using the transformer with a 230v oversees inverter. However, now after seeing how much the phantom load is I'm probably not. Do you have any ideas of things I could use it for?
Cool transformer. As someone who as done many off grid systems, just get a real 120/ 240 split phase low frequency inverter and be done with it Magnasine is a great one, I operate my mig welder off it regularly. Its worth the $$. Cheers
Interesting, what is the science behind that? I would have figured it would still be efficient, just that it would be under utilizing the core, so the transformer is bigger than it has to be.
Just hook your 120 inverter to the secondary 120v point then wire it for 240v on the primary side and you will have split phase 120ac in on secondary and 240vac out 120 from neutral to each leg L1 and L2
just get a 240v inverter (it's a fun thing to play with a transformer but these things are optimized for 100A per leg on 2 phase) but just better to use pure 240v 1 phase inverter as they are more efficient than split phase or even 110v 1 phase inverter (liek 8000 watts is more feasible on a 240v inverter then it is on a 110v one as can have issues with cables overheating ) make sure its correct hz for your country when getting 220-240v one, normally 220v is USA 60hz and 240v tends to be EU/UK 50hz but sometimes the 60hz ones are sold as 240v so best making sure when buying it (even after you have received it you should plug a kill a watt into it to make sure its running at correct hz)
Nope no 2 phase. 2 phase was used 80 years ago. Was usually 240 volt and 120 volts to centet tap for a total of 5 wires. Some old big cities still have some 2 phase service and motors. Have not worked on a 2 phase motor in last 35 years. Most places will replace the obsolete 2 phase motors as they burn out to modern 3 phase. We had a 2 phase 2300 volt 3 wire transformer feeding a building across the street ftom main building. They put a wire from phase A & B together to only have a 3 wire 2 phase.
I think you have inverter transfer to input to the transformer 48v-57vac from H bridge to transformer and your secondary become primary and primary is secondary.... The same configuration I have in my low frequency 12kw/36kw peak inverter.. 👍 I only miss compensation coil for AVR....
So I have used a transformer like that (well mine is smaller at about 4kva) with my generator to produce 240v. Connect the inverter to one side of the "output" (say the left hand 120v terminals) and you basically get what you want, just not isolated. X1= inverter line, X3=inverter neutral, H1 & H2 not needed, X2=neutral, X4= other half of your split phase. Efficiency is another thing, I guess you could wire all your 120v loads to use the inverter output directly and with a large switch or relay enable the transformer just when 240v loads are needed? I found I do not really need 240v (when the power is out) hence I kinda shelved my transformer. Mine also has H1/H2 that have taps up to about 500v so I do use it when I need high voltages, but that is very seldom.
Be careful with the frequency, as that transformer is designed for 60 Hz only. European inverters operate at 50 Hz, as that's standard in Europe. Running 50 Hz through that transformer would burn out the windings! Even with the proper voltage.
My friend, Ben, uses a 6kva with his MPP PIP since it has one phase 240. He says the transformer uses 60 watts. So you are probably close to that I'm guessing.
Now that was an endearing video DavidPoz.. great info for the masses, well done and good job.. “Frequency is King” three phase is a good read too lil Bro. Ship, if I knew you didn’t know I wud da told you.. You should of asked everyone.nice to see your reaction .. David got a surprise Uk ice cream
If you step up your voltage from your 120 volt inverter to say 440 using a step up transformer then bring the 440 into your step down inverter you will be all set with 120 on each leg with a nuetral or 240 on l1 and l2. good luck and be safe please.THUMBS UP.
WOW that is so cool...I have been trying to find just the opposite, I need a big transformer with a center tap to go from 120 to 240 split phase. I have a old diesel generator that runs like a dream and output 10kw of power but only at 120V. the motorhome it came from rotted away years ago and I want to use it for my house backup generator. I found a shop to make me a tranformer but they want $900 plus shipping... If I could find a old unit like that one...lol
As an experiment you can also inverse the transformer: Feed your inverter to the secondary of the transformer and beef up the voltage to 240V to use European devices for example. Another thing you can do is to use it as an isolation transformer. In 1:1 configuration as you did in the video. Don't think you have much use of that unless you start experimenting with electricity on a regular base.
Since I made the video I was thinking about doing the 1:1 configuration... I wonder if it would help turn on the compressor? Kinda give it more surge ability?
you might be able to "up tap" the load side of the transformer for the compressor in combination with a starting capacitor... which might damage the motor on the compressor.. but also might help it run ;)
adding a capacitor may be all you need to run that air compressor. If y you could do some sort of switchable 2 phase 240 using the transformer only activating it when the 240 split is needed thus reducing the parasitic losses in downtime then it would become a viable system I am sure you could configure some AC or other type contactors to do this using DC power remotely switched to pull the contactors thus energizing the transformer as needed very similarly to how 240 ac works.
Most off grid transformer based inverters present a 40W standby load, so still half of this transformer but not nothing. Virtually all inverters have a transformer built in (even Euro ones) to provide galvanic isolation or split phase in the case of American power distribution
Hi Liam O'Brien, You are right. After doing this test I'm thinking that one N.American inverter with an idle load of 40w is better than a European inverter at 40w plus this transformer at another 100 watts. BTW, I've got a safety video I'm working on now about fuses. I hope you can chime in because I value your opinion in making my system safer.
Hi Dredge, I'm not sure about the grounding situation with this inverter. There is a grounding lug on the back-side, but I don't know if I can ground the neutral. I think I remember hearing or seeing a comment that someone tried grounding the neutral and it caused something to burn up inside the inverter.
Is the neutral on your inverter connected to its own chassis and grounded? You can check that when its deenergized with your ohm meter. If it is you should connect that to the N on the LV side, and your HOT to L1. Of course your manual should talk about ground references. The ground reference on the LV is important or you could create a shifting voltage on your 240 split, depending on load imbalance L1vsL2. For a general reference any ground reference would be lost through the transformer. Be sure to verify everything with your volt/ohm meter... good luck! I enjoy your content.
Have you had a chance to evaluate the Victron autotransformer? The SolarEdge 5K is getting hard to locate. Victron costs more, but has a 100A version. I am unable to find it's idle load, and that would be important to know. Center it handles 28A, same as the SolarEdge, so the impedance on the coils may be similar which would result in a comparable idle load.
I have not tested the Victron. I'd be fun to try. Another approach is to find an isolation transformer. Buying used is the easiest way. Ebay, Facebook Marketplace, and Craigslist.
yep this is old post but its not necessarily that inefficient. For one thats a 50,000 watt inverter if you did it with a 5KVA or 10KVA standby likley would be less . Also If you use a transformorless inverter its probably more efficient then you just get it back to about standard efficiency with end use, In the meantime you have greatly increased the surge capacity by using the large transformer. I have thought seriously about doing this with MPP 5048 MG inverter and as side benefit it allows 450 v pv input and is half the price of really split phase us unit . It also charges to 64 volt which can support 16 s lithium ion non iron phosphate. A couple of channels have done this with the 5 KVA transformer I saw draws about 36 watts I think. I think we looked at same channels and thought about doing the same thing.
Well I didn't see a ground tie to the neutral on the output side of the transformer so there is a big safety issue right out of the chute. There should be a four port ground lug on the chassis with a tie to one of the input legs to reference it to ground as well as the output side neutral. Reference the inverters installation manual as well. There is a chance that one of the legs on the output is already tied to the chassis so if you chose wrong you could at worst burn up the inverter. The taps on the outside are used to set the primary turns ratio and the output voltage on the secondaries. Move the taps up and the output voltage goes up as well. Pro tip, use Noalox or the like on all the AL to AL or AL to CU connections as well as the AL to chassis of the ground. Hysteresis losses in the core will result in the unloaded dissipation of the transformer, these losses increase as the loading increases as well due to the resistance of the winding's. The red fiberglass is in fact called Glastic or glass filled plastic and is very common in switch gear as well as transformers. For a visual see the link below. beta-static.photobucket.com/images/bb50/mikeiver1/0/114fe480-4171-4a24-bc14-0159d63f4ef7-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds
The neutral ("grounded conductor") must only be grounded in one place. It's not grounded inside the housing, because it will be grounded elsewhere. (Go read ALL of section 250 of the NEC. And then spend the rest of the week reading Mike Holts stuff on grounding and separately derived systems.)
You will or should never hear an electrician calling any transformer split phase. 50 years ago in vo tech class called it a simple 3 wire edison system. Only thing that we were taught were some single phase AC motors. The start winding is out of phase to create help motor start. I would only consider this a small transformer. A large transformer would be 7 to 9' high and usually medium voltage stepdown. Such as 13,200 to 480 volts. Transformers this size never rated in watts but VA.
Dumb question. Do you have 230 loads that you are attempting to supply with solar ? Because if not, meaning, if you only have 120 loads on both sides of your panel, you could go with a Reliance Electric break-out box (or similar) and (2) 120 V inverters and make the common "common" to both. The 2 legs wouldn't be in phase, but it won't matter. I'm thinking it would be more efficient than using the split phase transformer. For that matter, you could have a 3rd inverter at 230 and use that to only feed your 230 loads. I actually thought about doing exactly this before deciding on the Magnum, but I need to start a hoist and couldn't find any 230 global inverter that I had confidence in, meaning, that it would start the hoist.
Hi Mark, I have a couple 240 volt loads. They are: stove, oven, and water heater. I used to have a mini-split heat pump which was 240v but that is just a hunk of trash still bolted to my house. The cooking is the hardest thing to switch to 120v, even though there are some options. I bought an induction hot plate a few years ago that plugs into the wall at 120v to test this out. It can do most things, but can't keep a rolling boil with pasta. I'm OK with switching out the heating element on the water tank to 120v if needed. I suppose going down your train of thought... I could buy one inverter for the oven with a remote relay switch and only turn that on for cooking. Everything else I could do with one inverter powering 120v. Is that where you were going?
Yes- exactly. Then you could run those inexpensive 120 v Reliable inverters (or equivalent). 240 resistance loads are no big deal - it's 'motor starting' that becomes a challenge. So if all you're powering are heating elements, you could use an inexpensive 48V to 240 2500 watt inverter for like $175. Steve Robinson has run one for years powering up his water heater and kitchen stove- swears they are about indestructible.
Hi Mark, I agree that it could be done on a direct heating element, such as a water heater. However, I don't think it would work on a stove because there is a little computer for the push-buttons and timer. Those might be powered off just one leg, 120v then a transformer to low voltage. I don't know for sure.
Ah, yes yes. The stove probably has a transformer that takes the 240 and makes 120 just for that purpose - which means you'd need a pure sine inverter to make the clock/computer board happy. But still do-able - i think.
The Schneider and Magnum inverters for US provide 120/240 split phase at a greater efficiency so if you get one of those two you don't need an extra transformer even tho it is a cool toy albeit one that can kill pretty easily... Or start a fire...
Hi Robert, Yeah, after seeing the large phantom load this transformer would consume, I'm back to saving up for the Schneider XW+ 6848. Thanks for watching.
Our power here is 220/50 and because of that we can not use 110 with out converting the power to 220. Part of that is if you have a 220v/60 drier for instance from the USA it will combine two 110 v legs to make 220. Here One leg is 220 alone. So it is easy to fry something here from the former USA if you are not careful. I do like 220 as a norm because it is more efficient over all. Also i am assuming you know about higher voltage solar system, 48 volt, is much more efficient and requires much smaller cabling as well. I am using a 230Volt inverter and I will purchase two 4,000 watt inverters from MPP SOLAR in the next month or so. The big problem with solar and batteries and the like is charging them with dirty power from a generator. The inverters are all so delicate that you can easily toast one using your generator to charge the batteries after a bad couple of days. So the answer i am hearing is to use an industrial battery charger and go directly from the generator to the battery charger to the batteries there by bypassing the inverter and saving your self some head ache to say the least. I envy you on the transformer. Wish I had one. Jim
Yáll need to go watch Justin Case Solar power on how to set up FUSES and cable size and you will be safe. I learned the hard way. See ya from the DEEP SOUTH. Jim
Wiki says split phase were founded for the copper saving. But I see now you have more problems in US with that 110v due to high power aplliances. We have 220 and 380v in Europe and it is more efficient and easy to work with I think.
Our North American 120/240v 3-wire system works very well, thank you. It is only partly about copper saving. That was the historical reason, going all the way back to Edison’s DC system. In our AC system, it was more a matter of providing a higher voltage option in a way that was upward compatible with the 120V system in general use. We also have 3-phase service in North America for those who need it. The distribution network is 3-phase.
I forgot to add I am using a small one to convert 110volt Honda 2,000 generator to output 240 split phase because the MPP and most other Hybrid inverters that produce 240v split phase only accept 240 volt generators . Most of these are very noisy and are not very efficient and even this generator will supply 45.6 kwhr per day efficiently and quietly and with extended 6 gallon tank can operate about 3 days or more for what I use (charging the batteries continuously it can still run high wattage HVAC since it isn't running all the time and PV in daytime directly.
I was wondering, if I could do this: batteries to a 240 invertor. Then use a transformer to make a split phase like you did, so I could back feed my load center during the next Shft problem. The split phase is necessary to get the enphase solar to think the grid was back. Once the solar is back up, life is good until nightfall when the zombies return.
Yes Michael that's call AC coupling and it's been done. As long as your enphase sees 60 hz, it will couple and do exactly as you say. BTW, I've played around with some enphase inverters, you do NOT need their fancy gateway or anything, they just hook-up and go after like a 3 min waiting period. And they will put out about 185 watts hooked to a good battery source if that matters to ya- but of course, like you say, they need to see AC to do it. I originally thought of charging batteries with solar, then using the enphase inverters to back feed to trim down my electric bill, and it worked great. I had several enphase connected in parallel. But it was a bitch to control, meaning, at times I was pushing too much, then not enough. This was in my early days of madness...hahaha... but so much fun !
or you could have just hooked the 115 to the secondary coil and got your 230 out of the primary because theyre really is no secondary or primary and they are interchangeable
Two reasons. This huge inverter has a huge standby loss compared to the SolarEdge. Second, this is an old video and I don't have this transformer anymore.
@@DavidPozEnergy Fair enough... Your video has made me wonder if it would better to go with an "European" 240 V Inverter and the auto transformer rather than a "American" Split Phase 120/240 V... it's a decision to make... Keep up the good work!!!
no condensers do, transformer only change the shape of the energy. Hey what do I know have fun 50 KVA is a substantial piece of work. I was thinking you could store high frequency voltage produced by a large string of panels and then release it later at a lower voltage (just dreaming along)
Why do this? MPP solar makes the 5048MG. The 5048MG outputs 230V AC on one leg and a N. You can run the 5048MG WITHOUT A BATTERY and WITH NO A/C input! You would then have a 100% solar circuit.
It's 480 or greater stepped down. It reduces the overall size of the feeder cables and uses less amperage. 480 at 100 amps would be 240 at 200 amps or 120 at 400 amps (all 48,000 Watts) not accounting for losses.
I think that useless, your grid already have 120v and 208v on split phase, unless you want to use 480v appliance, be careful high voltage ac very dangerous.
He's trying to take 240 single phase and make a 240 split phase system. I.e. the inverter pumps out 240 L-N, and he needs 240 L-N-L to match the grid. Some inverters can provide 240/split, but most don't.
A secondary winding will be in phase with the primary or opposite (180°) phase, depending on which way you look at it. To get split phase, one half of the secondary is just connected the other way.
I had been looking for a way to use something to convert output from relatively small quiet inverter generator like a honda Eu 3000is or a similar eu2000is to 240 volt to be a standby generator to charge batteries etc on solar system. many inverters that have generator backup connections or generator autostart do not accept 110volt generators such as the Sol-Ark 12 I am considering. I like the 110 volt generators mostly because of fuel efficiency and sound levels and portability. The 3000 unit has electric start and can be remote started but is heavier . With external tank adapter these can run for days on a 6 gallon plastic outboard motor tank at half rated output. As far as I know there aren't many if any light weight efficient quiet 220 volt generators and these 110v ones can be used for so many other things when not needed for backup. I did find an autotransformer that is used in an outback product but it is pretty expensive see link: www.wholesalesolar.com/2500182/outback-power/inverter-accessories/outback-power-fw-x240-auto-transformer . If anyone knows where to find a less expensive option please Reply or a different way to get split phase 240v from 110v generator .
Try these www.mppsolar.com/v3/ You really do not need this transformer. MPP Solar now sell 110 V for the US I understand. I have been using the 3kVA inverter for 5 years or so. It is very good. The problem is not only the voltage but you in the US have 60 Hz. The transformer will not help in that! You also lose on the efficiency. The MPP inverters are more efficient. Good luck from Cairo.
heya lol that is not a big transformer. wen I was in my 20ies I have worked by a company cold smit transformers 1 off the bigges transformer companies wolrd wide there are bild transformers of 100KVA till a couple of 3/4MVA they are as big as your house is and cooled down with special transformer oil. the 1 you are showing is a train or house transformer
Neutral is grounded at one, and ONLY one, location. (usually at the service entrance. _Ground is no joke. Consult a licensed electrician._ What he has here is a "separately derived system")
Not sure if you finished your project with this but I would suggest you have a look at this video where he explains how to use the toroid transformer to convert 240 to split phase. This is similar to the power transformers you see the electric company use on the poles. He measured about 15W of no-load draw. The ST-500 (5kW) is available on Ebay for ~$115 USD. ruclips.net/video/0E8fV9VMDFs/видео.html
Yup very cool, so you could use a large global inverter that only puts out 230 single phase and make yourself split phase 115 ! --- sheesh I spoke too soon...hahahaha you said it at the end
Exactly! I think it's a fun idea.
well if he gets trouble with neutral , and gets only 2 phase in house , he can use it ..
with this there wont be any need of dividing the power between 2 phase , to make an imaginary neutral
@@thedavesofourlives1 some even european style inverters have choice of 50 and 60 hz output in their programs.
Never seen somebody be so happy about a big transformer :_)
Hi David, it is a pleasure to greet you from Costa Rica. I see that you are a very skillful and knowledgeable in photovoltaic systems. I tell you about electricity in my country. It also works 120/240 split phase = F1 + N + F2, so all our electrical equipment works at 120v. is that I have an autonomous photovoltaic installation but I bought an MPP-SOLAR inverter the model PIP3024GK exactly and I bought it because it has the ability to work without batteries and without a network, only directly from the solar panels obviously that function during the day but the problem is that the output of this inverter is 230v in the European style and since some in Puerto Rico use an autotransformer to remove the split phase but since it is not an isolation transformer I see it as dangerous I personally would use 2 auto transformers and connect them inverted to remove a phase from each autotransformer and a common neutral but it is a lot of apparatus and it is more expensive so the question is if there is a tran sformer to take that European 230 in a primary winding and deliver it in a secondary winding in split phase thanks I appreciate any help because I could not use this inverter for this matter
I have been in commercial construction for 30 years and have had 100s of times I could have picked up a transformer for free and didn't. I should have double jointed knees so I could Kick My own Ass. I have been waiting for someone in solar to pull out a transformer, 2 thumbs and more up on this.
Thank you. So this must be second nature to you. Did I explain it correctly? I'm just learning about these big transformers.
Setup for 480 to 240 like it was org. use the secondary as the primary feeding the inverter into the the l1 and l2.. the primary posts will become 240 with the H tap jumper as neutral ;-p but keep in mind you limited to the max current of the smallest winding but its fine as your never get close to the limits with that inverter
I used to work at the GE plant in Fort Wayne Indiana where that transformer was manufactured. RIP
So you covered it right at the end, the transformer will pull no matter if it has a load or not. What are you going to do with this or just something cool to play with. You are doing a good job but be careful please, I like watching the videos and want to see more.
Hi Charlie, Originally I thought of using the transformer with a 230v oversees inverter. However, now after seeing how much the phantom load is I'm probably not. Do you have any ideas of things I could use it for?
DavidPoz pretty limited what you can do with it. Sorry that I do not have a way to use it or suggestions for it.
Cool transformer. As someone who as done many off grid systems, just get a real 120/ 240 split phase low frequency inverter and be done with it Magnasine is a great one, I operate my mig welder off it regularly. Its worth the $$. Cheers
That's for 480vAC. Configuring below the rated input voltage will draw more current, not efficient.
Interesting, what is the science behind that? I would have figured it would still be efficient, just that it would be under utilizing the core, so the transformer is bigger than it has to be.
@@redsquirrelftw Parallel vs. series windings. There's 1/4th the resistance to the input now. (1+1 = 2, 1 | 1 = .5) [ignoring inductance]
Just hook your 120 inverter to the secondary 120v point then wire it for 240v on the primary side and you will have split phase 120ac in on secondary and 240vac out 120 from neutral to each leg L1 and L2
The transformer hums because it doesn’t know the words!
lmao
xd thats 60HZ ,
just get a 240v inverter (it's a fun thing to play with a transformer but these things are optimized for 100A per leg on 2 phase) but just better to use pure 240v 1 phase inverter as they are more efficient than split phase or even 110v 1 phase inverter (liek 8000 watts is more feasible on a 240v inverter then it is on a 110v one as can have issues with cables overheating )
make sure its correct hz for your country when getting 220-240v one, normally 220v is USA 60hz and 240v tends to be EU/UK 50hz but sometimes the 60hz ones are sold as 240v so best making sure when buying it (even after you have received it you should plug a kill a watt into it to make sure its running at correct hz)
Nope no 2 phase. 2 phase was used 80 years ago. Was usually 240 volt and 120 volts to centet tap for a total of 5 wires. Some old big cities still have some 2 phase service and motors. Have not worked on a 2 phase motor in last 35 years. Most places will replace the obsolete 2 phase motors as they burn out to modern 3 phase. We had a 2 phase 2300 volt 3 wire transformer feeding a building across the street ftom main building. They put a wire from phase A & B together to only have a 3 wire 2 phase.
you can use this "Big Transformer," to split 240 to 120 on your new Growatt SPF 3500-5000 ES Off-grid Inverter.
I think you have inverter transfer to input to the transformer 48v-57vac from H bridge to transformer and your secondary become primary and primary is secondary....
The same configuration I have in my low frequency 12kw/36kw peak inverter.. 👍
I only miss compensation coil for AVR....
So I have used a transformer like that (well mine is smaller at about 4kva) with my generator to produce 240v. Connect the inverter to one side of the "output" (say the left hand 120v terminals) and you basically get what you want, just not isolated. X1= inverter line, X3=inverter neutral, H1 & H2 not needed, X2=neutral, X4= other half of your split phase.
Efficiency is another thing, I guess you could wire all your 120v loads to use the inverter output directly and with a large switch or relay enable the transformer just when 240v loads are needed? I found I do not really need 240v (when the power is out) hence I kinda shelved my transformer. Mine also has H1/H2 that have taps up to about 500v so I do use it when I need high voltages, but that is very seldom.
Be careful with the frequency, as that transformer is designed for 60 Hz only. European inverters operate at 50 Hz, as that's standard in Europe. Running 50 Hz through that transformer would burn out the windings! Even with the proper voltage.
Great video
Thanks Frank.
@@DavidPozEnergy I have a 7kva 240 to 120/240. Makes me wonder how much it burns.
My friend, Ben, uses a 6kva with his MPP PIP since it has one phase 240. He says the transformer uses 60 watts. So you are probably close to that I'm guessing.
@@DavidPozEnergy that would be great if it was under 100w. Cheers buddy. Trailer looks good
Now that was an endearing video DavidPoz.. great info for the masses, well done and good job.. “Frequency is King” three phase is a good read too lil Bro. Ship, if I knew you didn’t know I wud da told you.. You should of asked everyone.nice to see your reaction .. David got a surprise Uk ice cream
Shhhh. Quiet yourself.
i love huge transformers
If you step up your voltage from your 120 volt inverter to say 440 using a step up transformer then bring the 440 into your step down inverter you will be all set with 120 on each leg with a nuetral or 240 on l1 and l2. good luck and be safe please.THUMBS UP.
The input is 240VAC to 480VAC, so the primary has to be configured for the voltage to be applied. That’s what the taps are for.
WOW that is so cool...I have been trying to find just the opposite, I need a big transformer with a center tap to go from 120 to 240 split phase. I have a old diesel generator that runs like a dream and output 10kw of power but only at 120V. the motorhome it came from rotted away years ago and I want to use it for my house backup generator. I found a shop to make me a tranformer but they want $900 plus shipping... If I could find a old unit like that one...lol
As an experiment you can also inverse the transformer: Feed your inverter to the secondary of the transformer and beef up the voltage to 240V to use European devices for example.
Another thing you can do is to use it as an isolation transformer. In 1:1 configuration as you did in the video. Don't think you have much use of that unless you start experimenting with electricity on a regular base.
Since I made the video I was thinking about doing the 1:1 configuration... I wonder if it would help turn on the compressor? Kinda give it more surge ability?
you might be able to "up tap" the load side of the transformer for the compressor in combination with a starting capacitor... which might damage the motor on the compressor.. but also might help it run ;)
Thanks Janktzoni and Christopher
adding a capacitor may be all you need to run that air compressor. If y you could do some sort of switchable 2 phase 240 using the transformer only activating it when the 240 split is needed thus reducing the parasitic losses in downtime then it would become a viable system I am sure you could configure some AC or other type contactors to do this using DC power remotely switched to pull the contactors thus energizing the transformer as needed very similarly to how 240 ac works.
Master Debater me
Most off grid transformer based inverters present a 40W standby load, so still half of this transformer but not nothing. Virtually all inverters have a transformer built in (even Euro ones) to provide galvanic isolation or split phase in the case of American power distribution
Hi Liam O'Brien, You are right. After doing this test I'm thinking that one N.American inverter with an idle load of 40w is better than a European inverter at 40w plus this transformer at another 100 watts.
BTW, I've got a safety video I'm working on now about fuses. I hope you can chime in because I value your opinion in making my system safer.
Connect your inverter to L1 & N on the LV side. Redo measurements. Are you able to ground the N of your inverter?
Hi Dredge, I'm not sure about the grounding situation with this inverter. There is a grounding lug on the back-side, but I don't know if I can ground the neutral. I think I remember hearing or seeing a comment that someone tried grounding the neutral and it caused something to burn up inside the inverter.
Is the neutral on your inverter connected to its own chassis and grounded? You can check that when its deenergized with your ohm meter. If it is you should connect that to the N on the LV side, and your HOT to L1. Of course your manual should talk about ground references. The ground reference on the LV is important or you could create a shifting voltage on your 240 split, depending on load imbalance L1vsL2. For a general reference any ground reference would be lost through the transformer. Be sure to verify everything with your volt/ohm meter... good luck! I enjoy your content.
Have you had a chance to evaluate the Victron autotransformer? The SolarEdge 5K is getting hard to locate. Victron costs more, but has a 100A version. I am unable to find it's idle load, and that would be important to know. Center it handles 28A, same as the SolarEdge, so the impedance on the coils may be similar which would result in a comparable idle load.
I have not tested the Victron. I'd be fun to try. Another approach is to find an isolation transformer. Buying used is the easiest way. Ebay, Facebook Marketplace, and Craigslist.
yep this is old post but its not necessarily that inefficient. For one thats a 50,000 watt inverter if you did it with a 5KVA or 10KVA standby likley would be less . Also If you use a transformorless inverter its probably more efficient then you just get it back to about standard efficiency with end use, In the meantime you have greatly increased the surge capacity by using the large transformer. I have thought seriously about doing this with MPP 5048 MG inverter and as side benefit it allows 450 v pv input and is half the price of really split phase us unit . It also charges to 64 volt which can support 16 s lithium ion non iron phosphate. A couple of channels have done this with the 5 KVA transformer I saw draws about 36 watts I think. I think we looked at same channels and thought about doing the same thing.
My friend, Ben, is doing just that. He is using the MPP inverter with a transformer. ruclips.net/video/6nxH9_GmCiU/видео.html
Well I didn't see a ground tie to the neutral on the output side of the transformer so there is a big safety issue right out of the chute. There should be a four port ground lug on the chassis with a tie to one of the input legs to reference it to ground as well as the output side neutral. Reference the inverters installation manual as well. There is a chance that one of the legs on the output is already tied to the chassis so if you chose wrong you could at worst burn up the inverter. The taps on the outside are used to set the primary turns ratio and the output voltage on the secondaries. Move the taps up and the output voltage goes up as well. Pro tip, use Noalox or the like on all the AL to AL or AL to CU connections as well as the AL to chassis of the ground.
Hysteresis losses in the core will result in the unloaded dissipation of the transformer, these losses increase as the loading increases as well due to the resistance of the winding's.
The red fiberglass is in fact called Glastic or glass filled plastic and is very common in switch gear as well as transformers.
For a visual see the link below.
beta-static.photobucket.com/images/bb50/mikeiver1/0/114fe480-4171-4a24-bc14-0159d63f4ef7-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds
The neutral ("grounded conductor") must only be grounded in one place. It's not grounded inside the housing, because it will be grounded elsewhere. (Go read ALL of section 250 of the NEC. And then spend the rest of the week reading Mike Holts stuff on grounding and separately derived systems.)
Take 240v from home step it up to 480V. You can do a lot of funny things with 480V.
I do this with 240 in and 480 out single phase then into a variable frequency drive to power my 15hp 3 phase air compressor
You will or should never hear an electrician calling any transformer split phase. 50 years ago in vo tech class called it a simple 3 wire edison system. Only thing that we were taught were some single phase AC motors. The start winding is out of phase to create help motor start. I would only consider this a small transformer. A large transformer would be 7 to 9' high and usually medium voltage stepdown. Such as 13,200 to 480 volts. Transformers this size never rated in watts but VA.
Dumb question. Do you have 230 loads that you are attempting to supply with solar ? Because if not, meaning, if you only have 120 loads on both sides of your panel, you could go with a Reliance Electric break-out box (or similar) and (2) 120 V inverters and make the common "common" to both. The 2 legs wouldn't be in phase, but it won't matter. I'm thinking it would be more efficient than using the split phase transformer. For that matter, you could have a 3rd inverter at 230 and use that to only feed your 230 loads. I actually thought about doing exactly this before deciding on the Magnum, but I need to start a hoist and couldn't find any 230 global inverter that I had confidence in, meaning, that it would start the hoist.
Hi Mark, I have a couple 240 volt loads. They are: stove, oven, and water heater. I used to have a mini-split heat pump which was 240v but that is just a hunk of trash still bolted to my house. The cooking is the hardest thing to switch to 120v, even though there are some options. I bought an induction hot plate a few years ago that plugs into the wall at 120v to test this out. It can do most things, but can't keep a rolling boil with pasta. I'm OK with switching out the heating element on the water tank to 120v if needed. I suppose going down your train of thought... I could buy one inverter for the oven with a remote relay switch and only turn that on for cooking. Everything else I could do with one inverter powering 120v. Is that where you were going?
Yes- exactly. Then you could run those inexpensive 120 v Reliable inverters (or equivalent). 240 resistance loads are no big deal - it's 'motor starting' that becomes a challenge. So if all you're powering are heating elements, you could use an inexpensive 48V to 240 2500 watt inverter for like $175. Steve Robinson has run one for years powering up his water heater and kitchen stove- swears they are about indestructible.
Hi Mark, I agree that it could be done on a direct heating element, such as a water heater. However, I don't think it would work on a stove because there is a little computer for the push-buttons and timer. Those might be powered off just one leg, 120v then a transformer to low voltage. I don't know for sure.
Ah, yes yes. The stove probably has a transformer that takes the 240 and makes 120 just for that purpose - which means you'd need a pure sine inverter to make the clock/computer board happy. But still do-able - i think.
You could get a euro style inverter but you will also be at 50 hz instead of 60hz
The Schneider and Magnum inverters for US provide 120/240 split phase at a greater efficiency so if you get one of those two you don't need an extra transformer even tho it is a cool toy albeit one that can kill pretty easily... Or start a fire...
Hi Robert, Yeah, after seeing the large phantom load this transformer would consume, I'm back to saving up for the Schneider XW+ 6848. Thanks for watching.
Our power here is 220/50 and because of that we can not use 110 with out converting the power to 220. Part of that is if you have a 220v/60 drier for instance from the USA it will combine two 110 v legs to make 220. Here One leg is 220 alone. So it is easy to fry something here from the former USA if you are not careful.
I do like 220 as a norm because it is more efficient over all.
Also i am assuming you know about higher voltage solar system, 48 volt, is much more efficient and requires much smaller cabling as well.
I am using a 230Volt inverter and I will purchase two 4,000 watt inverters from MPP SOLAR in the next month or so.
The big problem with solar and batteries and the like is charging them with dirty power from a generator. The inverters are all so delicate that you can easily toast one using your generator to charge the batteries after a bad couple of days. So the answer i am hearing is to use an industrial battery charger and go directly from the generator to the battery charger to the batteries there by bypassing the inverter and saving your self some head ache to say the least.
I envy you on the transformer. Wish I had one. Jim
Thanks for the tip on being careful with generator power. Inverters are so expensive nobody wants to fry one.
Yáll need to go watch Justin Case Solar power on how to set up FUSES and cable size and you will be safe. I learned the hard way. See ya from the DEEP SOUTH. Jim
Wiki says split phase were founded for the copper saving. But I see now you have more problems in US with that 110v due to high power aplliances. We have 220 and 380v in Europe and it is more efficient and easy to work with I think.
I wish we went to a higher voltage in the US.
Not. Shhh.
Our North American 120/240v 3-wire system works very well, thank you. It is only partly about copper saving. That was the historical reason, going all the way back to Edison’s DC system. In our AC system, it was more a matter of providing a higher voltage option in a way that was upward compatible with the 120V system in general use. We also have 3-phase service in North America for those who need it. The distribution network is 3-phase.
Connect X1 to inverter live, X2 and X3 and neutral together and anouther live will be on X4
I forgot to add I am using a small one to convert 110volt Honda 2,000 generator to output 240 split phase because the MPP and most other Hybrid inverters that produce 240v split phase only accept 240 volt generators . Most of these are very noisy and are not very efficient and even this generator will supply 45.6 kwhr per day efficiently and quietly and with extended 6 gallon tank can operate about 3 days or more for what I use (charging the batteries continuously it can still run high wattage HVAC since it isn't running all the time and PV in daytime directly.
I was wondering, if I could do this: batteries to a 240 invertor. Then use a transformer to make a split phase like you did, so I could back feed my load center during the next Shft problem. The split phase is necessary to get the enphase solar to think the grid was back. Once the solar is back up, life is good until nightfall when the zombies return.
Hi Michael, I don't think batteries can be connected directly to a transformer, only AC. Thanks for watching.
of course. Batteries would only power the inverter, making a single phase 240 output.
Yes Michael that's call AC coupling and it's been done. As long as your enphase sees 60 hz, it will couple and do exactly as you say. BTW, I've played around with some enphase inverters, you do NOT need their fancy gateway or anything, they just hook-up and go after like a 3 min waiting period. And they will put out about 185 watts hooked to a good battery source if that matters to ya- but of course, like you say, they need to see AC to do it. I originally thought of charging batteries with solar, then using the enphase inverters to back feed to trim down my electric bill, and it worked great. I had several enphase connected in parallel. But it was a bitch to control, meaning, at times I was pushing too much, then not enough. This was in my early days of madness...hahaha... but so much fun !
What exactly is your training and experience in electricity?
It must be balanced to stay working. It shut down if out of sequence.
or you could have just hooked the 115 to the secondary coil and got your 230 out of the primary because theyre really is no secondary or primary and they are interchangeable
How do you get split phase power out of a single winding? (that's the whole point of the exercise.)
@DavidPoz Why didn't you use this transformer instead of buying the SolarEdge one??!!!
This is so much massive...!!!
Two reasons. This huge inverter has a huge standby loss compared to the SolarEdge. Second, this is an old video and I don't have this transformer anymore.
@@DavidPozEnergy Fair enough... Your video has made me wonder if it would better to go with an "European" 240 V Inverter and the auto transformer rather than a "American" Split Phase 120/240 V... it's a decision to make...
Keep up the good work!!!
Personally, I don't think one is better than the other. They are just two different options. I'm enjoying exploring/testing different options.
Its like a variac
Where can you find theas
Add a few condensers and you could store your power for another day
What do you mean? Do transformers store energy? (I'm asking honestly)
no condensers do, transformer only change the shape of the energy. Hey what do I know have fun 50 KVA is a substantial piece of work. I was thinking you could store high frequency voltage produced by a large string of panels and then release it later at a lower voltage (just dreaming along)
Cool. Thanks for joining me on the dream.
Too bad Transformer won't work on DC. Also can't change the frequency so the 50hz European inverter would only supply 50 and not 60 hz
Why do this?
MPP solar makes the 5048MG.
The 5048MG outputs 230V AC on one leg and a N.
You can run the 5048MG WITHOUT A BATTERY and WITH NO A/C input!
You would then have a 100% solar circuit.
That can run up your electric bill to i think
i bought a single phase 48v 8000w inverter and i live in usa lol I mess up hardcore. what you want $$ for transformer?
eBay is your friend.
Having a big transformer is great, especially if the Decepticons show up.....(cue the rimshot)...sry, couldnt resist. :)
after reading this comment im done,,, so lets roll out!
If you used this to power a Japanese machine you would change the taps to give you a nominal voltage of 100 volts.
No, the taps are to select the input voltage in the range 240V to 480V.
I see them in shoping centers i belive to step 208 up to 480 for 277 volt lighting consult a electrican befoe installation
It's 480 or greater stepped down. It reduces the overall size of the feeder cables and uses less amperage.
480 at 100 amps would be 240 at 200 amps or 120 at 400 amps (all 48,000 Watts) not accounting for losses.
Commercial buildings can get 480/277 3-phase service from the power company. They would use a unit like this to produce 120/240 from 480V.
jaa Good El =:-) from EU Denmark
The core is rather small for a whopping 50kva, gee it must cook at full load.
European inverter would be 50Hz not 60Hz as we use
I think that useless, your grid already have 120v and 208v on split phase, unless you want to use 480v appliance, be careful high voltage ac very dangerous.
He's trying to take 240 single phase and make a 240 split phase system. I.e. the inverter pumps out 240 L-N, and he needs 240 L-N-L to match the grid. Some inverters can provide 240/split, but most don't.
How does the transformer put one leg out of phase
A secondary winding will be in phase with the primary or opposite (180°) phase, depending on which way you look at it. To get split phase, one half of the secondary is just connected the other way.
That was 114 X2 almost 220 from 110
I had been looking for a way to use something to convert output from relatively small quiet inverter generator like a honda Eu 3000is or a similar eu2000is to 240 volt to be a standby generator to charge batteries etc on solar system. many inverters that have generator backup connections or generator autostart do not accept 110volt generators such as the Sol-Ark 12 I am considering. I like the 110 volt generators mostly because of fuel efficiency and sound levels and portability. The 3000 unit has electric start and can be remote started but is heavier . With external tank adapter these can run for days on a 6 gallon plastic outboard motor tank at half rated output. As far as I know there aren't many if any light weight efficient quiet 220 volt generators and these 110v ones can be used for so many other things when not needed for backup. I did find an autotransformer that is used in an outback product but it is pretty expensive see link:
www.wholesalesolar.com/2500182/outback-power/inverter-accessories/outback-power-fw-x240-auto-transformer . If anyone knows where to find a less expensive option please Reply or a different way to get split phase 240v from 110v generator .
Try these www.mppsolar.com/v3/ You really do not need this transformer. MPP Solar now sell 110 V for the US I understand. I have been using the 3kVA inverter for 5 years or so. It is very good. The problem is not only the voltage but you in the US have 60 Hz. The transformer will not help in that! You also lose on the efficiency. The MPP inverters are more efficient. Good luck from Cairo.
heya lol that is not a big transformer. wen I was in my 20ies I have worked by a company cold smit transformers 1 off the bigges transformer companies wolrd wide there are bild transformers of 100KVA till a couple of 3/4MVA they are as big as your house is and cooled down with special transformer oil. the 1 you are showing is a train or house transformer
Do not ground the neutral.
Neutral is grounded at one, and ONLY one, location. (usually at the service entrance. _Ground is no joke. Consult a licensed electrician._ What he has here is a "separately derived system")
Not sure if you finished your project with this but I would suggest you have a look at this video where he explains how to use the toroid transformer to convert 240 to split phase. This is similar to the power transformers you see the electric company use on the poles. He measured about 15W of no-load draw. The ST-500 (5kW) is available on Ebay for ~$115 USD. ruclips.net/video/0E8fV9VMDFs/видео.html
looks like a 277/480 transformer
It is designed to produce 120/240 from an input voltage selectable from 240V to 480V.
I’m surprised to ,,,,
Step up right
All you guys scare me with so unsafe safety practices with electricity
It's ok, they're tiny wires, and he's wearing HF gardening gloves. :-)
Tell me the precautions he should have taken, as opposed to these actions.
You don't exactly sound confident. Not gonna lie I was nervous watching you poke around.
Oh man I wrote that last comment before you even said "I hear a hum"