please don't remove the chevron from the "Get Mail" button, we still need to be able to attach dropdowns on some toolbarbuttons. (tag toolbar, SmartTemplates etc.)
NO I"m NOT..... I'm sick of all this software- ALL of them- feeling like they have to have " NEW AND IMPROVED every ten minutes... Thunderbird works GREAT as is-- LeAVE IT THE F.. ALONE!!! And these other softwares- distros that feel like they have to have a brand new upgrade before you finish installing the latest one.. is BULLSHIT... enough.. I thnk all these should be NO MORE THAN eevery year-- and even that's too much... we now spend all our time upgrading this or updating that-- and its' - again-- BULLSHIT!!
PLEASE keep continue making these in-depth overviews. UI and accessibility are the things that open-source software lack the most. These are excellent explanations. Keep it up!
@@alecaddd in that vein, I have to ask... did you draw some inspiration to do these videos from Tantacrul (Martin Keary)? He's in charge of UI for Musescore and Audacity now and he's doing great work. The UI overview in this video reminds me of his UI overview vids.
I'm sorry you got negative feedback on your last video. I find these videos super interesting and hope you keep making them. I'm using Thunderbird as my daily email app, but that's just because other options keep disappearing, not because I love its current UI. I'm so happy to see these options for making the new UI look more modern and friendly.
I am so excited for this new UI and version, and so appreciate how thoughtful the planning is going so that those who like the old layout/preferences can still have them! Well done!
@@alecaddd Sometimes our community can be a little overprotective of what we have… but don't worry, it's a case of loud minority versus silent majority. Thank you for your incredible work on that, it comes precisely when I was thinking about leaving thunderbird because of a feeling of using something very outdated. These updates are needed as you explained very clearly in your previous video!
I think having a one-off pop up to choose whether you want to keep the old UI or switch to the new one is a good idea. Otherwise many users who might prefer the new UI wouldn't even notice it's there.
*Really* looking forward for the new Thunderbird UI! The fact that you've put so much effort been making it so customizable as to let different users choose how they prefer to have things arranged is one of the reasons I love Thunderbird!
I aplaud you for not changing it completely and doing what MS did to outlook. No removing features, no drastic changes, just customizability. Well done.
Probably the most informative and well done video on RUclips. Thank you so much for keeping Thunderbird alive and preparing it for the future. Your video is very reassuring and positive. Super great work. Awesome!
Extremely articulate, well-presented summary of why and how the revisions/updates are being developed. I guess in order not to scare people, Alessandro had to repeatedly stress how one could keep the program running with appearances unchanged from before. I for one, welcome the options available for customization. Bravo!
RUclips devlogs and open source software is such a perfect combination! I really think that this is the next stage for growing the community and getting feedback from casual users
Thank you Alessandro! For me, this video and the previous overview of Thunderbird's history was very useful! I am a fairly new Thunderbird user and I really like it. Your videos helped me appreciate the flexible user interface and also pointed me towards trying new features. Thank you.
The new folder pane looks great and I'm happy with the new UI. I like Thunderbird a lot and these changes in the UI are great because it's more intuitive and usable for more people(my family and co-workers in my case). When you mentioned those who only use keyboard shortcuts: Me: Yes, I'm one of those mentally ill🤣. PD: Thanks for the video and sorry if the message is not understood, I'm just learning English.
Thank you for the video. I'm in my 70's and I used Outlook Express as long as I could. A friend even found a way to use it on Win 7. Finally due to the large number of files, it became unstable. I loved the format style so I found OE Classic, created by a group in a country close to the Ukraine. I really like it but it is not totally stable. Last nite it did an update and now it will load and immediately close. My tech friend wants me to go to Thunderbird. After watching a few videos, he is going to try and set that up for me tomorrow. I do legal research and I have lots of SCOTUS case citations organized by subject. I use my e-mail client because it is faster to find things than using my word processor. About being user friendly that you discussed. Some of us are just users. We get everything set up just the way we want and if new features come out, we many incorporate some of them, but we want the look, feel and general operation to remain unchanged. That is very important to use 'more mature' users. I really appreciate the fact that you have that in mind. In one video I found out the files are in standard text format so we can access them even if the program crashes. That alone was enough to cause me to decide to make the switch. Due to our aging population, I think it is wise to find a way to make your program so it can be customized with changing features for the younger crowd - but to also keep in mind that us more mature people learn more slowly and need to have the ability to incorporate new features slowly instead of having them forced on us. I think putting simple tutorials on line that we can turn to as we need them. That way we could watch larger over views to see what we might like to incorporate, then turn to a tutorial that teaches us how to do that. If your company would ever want to go into the operating system business, I would make the following recommendation: Make a clone of Win 7 Professional. Make all the neat and easy to use features permanent - then add extra options for people without screwing it up the way M/S did with the later versions. Some of us will use Win 7 as long as we can, which depends to some degree on how long Fire Fox will support it. We also have Win 10 here. No one likes it. I hate to think what Win 11 will be like.
Thank you for making Thunderbird work and work great! You're explanations are great and help to understand the way Thunderbird is going. Best regards to you and the whole Thunderbird team!
As an oooold user having multiple emails at home and at work (and some at both installations) I don't see myself going to single view for all the accounts. But! Would love to have an option to see "What's new" after the install and an easy way to see the new look when the time permits even after the install. A great option would be to somehow "freeze" the look and then be able to play arround with options to my liking with a chance to "reset to my default". Your presentation is a a REALY good way to get users to know the direction in which the design is moving and getting us aboard for new adventures! Kudos, KUDOS!!!
Options are always great to have. Very excited for the future of Thunderbird! Good luck to everyone involved who will have to deal with the grumps who don't like change (even when it's optional!)
Wow! This guy (and the Thunderbird team) "gets" it! Thank you for considering ALL users of Thunderbird and making it so configurable and adaptable - no matter what users prefer. That's excellent. Great Job! Now, can you speak with the clowns that are currently running (ruining) Firefox, as they continually modify the browser into what THEY want it to be, rather than what the USERS want it to be, as they drive that once great browser into extinction? No common sense over there, that's for certain. NONE.
THANK YOU. I’ve waited 8 years to get off of the Windows 10 Mail app, but had gotten too used to the dead space. Trying to come back to Thunderbird had me feeling like 2005 claustrophobia was settling in. This is an AMAZING change. I’ll be returning, and bringing all my IT inclined friends with me.
When I first installed 115, I really didn't like the changes. But, after a while, I gave it a second run and started to customize, simplify and even applied the Gnome theme to it. Now I like it a lot 🙂. For me, it's awesome to be able to customize so many things here. Everyone is different and if the tool tries to fit its owner, that's a good thing.
I think your idea of keeping as much as is possible is a very good idea. I was totally mystified why I don't have a 'get messages' button any more. It wasn't until I read your second video that I knew where it was (not a button anymore). Regards, AB
I really like the direction this is going so far. That tease at the beginning actually showed exactly what I would want. I didn't know unified folders were even an option, and that along with a cleaner, emptier window are reasons I currently use Windows Mail, but absolutely keeping an eye on this. That would mean without having seen this, is my Thunderbird updated without a pop up I'd be stuck assuming only the old ui I don't like is the only option.
Thank you for doing these videos! I can't wait to see the end result. I've bounced off the old Thunderbird several times, but I would love to switch to it. There are so few FOSS mail programs so this is awesome.
As a long time thunderbird user i just get read the headline "Thunderbird will get a new look". And my first thought was: Oh no, another good working product that goes down the drain. (Like food that has the label "new receipe!", which always means it is worse now.) After seeing your Video: Thank you for giving me hope to belive that thunderbird will be still usable after 115 !
Man, this is really awesome. I'm usually very sad with the opensource apps ecosystem because the UX tends to be so bad. Now things are finally changing, seeing all the Gnome and KDE effort towards usability and now the Thunderbird project caring so much about UX. Congrats, man. And hey, a suggestion: would be very nice to have some flatpak channel where I could download the Thunderbird Beta version. I would be very happy to try and report bugs but I'm not going to manually install it after every single new version.
You had me going for a moment there with the ALL THE WHITESPACE bit! It’s funny because it’s so true: the UX world seems obsessed with whitespace, even though I know very few people who actually want it. So, THANK YOU for giving control to the user-on that and so many other things!
This is fantastic. I miss Thunderbird. I had to move away from it became difficult to deal with the bad performance, outdated UI and lack of features and functionality that are now commonplace in any webmail service. But I look forward to giving it a try. Frankly, I know some people are being harsh since the MZLA move, but the project is clearly moving in the right direction, and you seem like a great manager for it. I'm a front end developer, and I'd be very excited if I was working on this right now. Keep it up!
I think Thunderbird already looks very decent. Your changes will improve it on top! And you have an eye on giving the user the power to change the look and feel the way they like it. For me, you're doing everything right.
That looks like a good approach. I'll admit I was getting a bit anxious the way you started this video, but now I'm thinking that if you pull this off the way you describe, you guys should be put in charge of all the UI upgrades in the universe.
I'm psyched for 115! Your genuineness and transparency are really valuable, and - as a fellow project manager - I can identify with the struggle of moving forward without alienating existing audiences. Thank you for this! (PS: You don't look a day over 30!)
Thank you for your great video. I wish more of the bigger open source players were communicating with their users like that. I was afraid that TB would go the Firefox way and change a lot of things for the sake of changing things making it a worse UX. That made me leave FF behind, after using it for more than 15 years. Many of the things you showed, make me really look forward to the next big TB release. Also some of the new features seam a great addition!
Hi Alessandro, don't worry about the trolls - there are many more people who really appreciate all the hard work you and your team are doing 👍 I for one am very much looking forward to using this new generation of TB. I am not a power user, just using it for personal emails, but I use it every day. Please keep up the good work. BTW it was nice to see the face behind the voice! 😁
Very nice explanatory video for the upcoming Thunderbird. Well done! I've been a Thunderbird user for like forever (TBH, I've used KMail for sometime, but that was too many years ago). What I use much is the tags. At work I use many tags to label messages and what bothers me is that I'd like them to be more configurable. Besides the color you can assign a tag (for some reason, not all colors are displayed nicely, I don't know why), it might be a good idea to also assign a small icon or something. And what surely needs work is selecting from a list of tags to display the list of messages tagged while using the Quick filter option in the main bar. If you have many tags, the right and left arrows to scroll through these just to select them is too time consuming. There must be something quicker there to select the tags you need (maybe a input text box to autocomplete tags? I don't know). Keep up the great work!
Very much looking forward to the new development of Thunderbird. I have honestly been not very happy with it for a long time and so I love the new energy and ideas you are bouncing around.
People who have worked with many different mailapps will know, Thunderbird has far most the best features and it’s incredibly customisable. Plus, it’s available for Mac and Windows. Keep going guys!
I just got the new design this week. Maybe it came even earlier but I didn't restart Thunderbird since weeks until it had problems closing a window yesterday. At first I didn't like the new design because everything was really densely packed. But now that I know about all the options I like it very much. I now found the font size and density that works best for me. And I also like the virtual tag folders. Before I always created them by myself with smart folders. An additional idea from my side: At work we can define server-side filters that move messages to the right folders. But Thunderbird does not check each folder in the tree for new mails by default. I always have to go to the properties of each new folder and activate the checkbox for fetching new mails. It would be nice to have a general option per account that enables fetching the mails for each folder with one click, even for newly created folders.
The "jak" on the electron part is weird, coz it would have been great to build the "new" thunderbird on it. IMO would give more customizability to the users, more addons and custom UI. Plus, much easier to maintain the app for all OS and distros. I'm still happy for your guys, for crawling out from tech dept. Thanks for your work!
Is full and stable maildir support on the roadmap? Thanks for the configurable density and the unified folder mode. I'll be staying on the older high-density multi-account layout, but I am so excited about the possibility of not having to lecture new users. Having easily configurable density is important for those with older devices or anything with screens with resolutions below 1080p.
Loyal user for over a decade. Keep up the great work. Keep the Desktop version from becoming a mobile or tablet app. It is great as is, that is as Desktop Mail Client. Best Wishes.
I have to admit that professionally I am very glad to see the configurability of the UI be given to the user. So many applications these days just "go with the trend" and force users to many times worse ways (for them) to use the software. I would like to know, though, that what is the responsibility of the developers to "educate" the users to use better (objectively) solutions and ways, instead of just the "what everyone else is going with"? At which point does the developer have the responsibility to becoma a trendsetter?
I have been using Thunderbird & Firefox since they first rolled out - along with making donations when I can. I plan to continue using them as long as they are available. Keep up the good work! I agree with adding the new account wizard UI selection. More options is a good thing.
I like the new one. esp the blue bold for the selected item instead of the current black bold for the select item. The new orange dot in inbox icon is also looks cool
Looking forward to Thunderbird's future. I love it for the most part. The largest issue I have is the state of address book(s). Syncing with the actual email (Gmail) and sharing among the various address books needs to be seamless. If I never opened Outlook (whatever "version" they're pushing) again I would be happy!
It's very nice! Immediately it connected with the calendar contacts and mail, fast, fluid and easy to tweak a few things. Like to make the spaces large and hide the message view (small laptop screen). I really like it, I already made it the default! Thanks.
Thank you Alessandro. Very appreciating the approach "we do not changes because is trendy (in italian: perchè fa fico ... 😉), but because there are plenty of concrete reasons behind". And the good news is that every user can choose if keep old configurations or switch to new ones. Very impatient to download Thunderbird 115 ... 💪
I am really looking forward to 115. I have been using Thunderbird ever since Eudora ended (there was a fuzzy transition in there somewhere I think). When my workplace all went over to Outlook I was the only one left using Thunderbird. At the time I could not do in Outlook what I could do in Thunderbird (not sure you can still). The customization available from the add-ons and the program itself has made my email life so much easier and productive. I'm also looking forward to the Android version.
Thanks for the video! It would be useful to make a "Collapse all folders" shortcut, as when the tree is complex it would save a lot of time. It would also be helpful to have the option to customize independently the folder's pane. For instance in my case, the folder tree should be more compact horizontally, because when you have a lot of subfolders, it expands to the right and you can't read everything well unless you expand the folder's pane too much to the right, which is not practical.
My idea on how to approach these UI changes: have a popup after installing a new update that says "Here are the changes, keep old UI or try new UI" and when you pick the new UI you will get another dialog the next time you open the program, asking you to keep or revert the changes. E: ofc I wrote the comment 5 seconds before you mention that approach in the video. My vote is on the one time popup. Perhaps with a quick before/after example picture.
Very informative and will be very helpful when the new version is released. Thunderbird has been my only email client for many, many years because I really like it. Now I suppose that I need to go and make another donation to keep it going.
yeah the dismissible prompt seems like a good option to appease old users and give new users a more modern interface they might be more comfortable with. I switched to Spark mail recently because I never felt good with all the clutter in Thunderbird, but I'm still following what you guys are up to. Keep it up!
Excellent communication and philosophy of UI design, and such a massive contrast to how Firefox development and UI design has been going in the past decade.
I have used Thunderbird for so long I forget (since 3.0 at least). When my calendar broke a little over a year ago I temporarily switched to Betterbird, which I still use because it hasn't broken yet and it looks so much like Thunderbird I sometimes forget it's just a fork. At any rate, I hope your new version doesn't break Betterbird. Other than that I'm interested in what you come up with. As to how I use the Folder Pane - compact with only Favorite folders usually visible, as well as the toolbar. It's easy enough to see more when I need to. This keeps things clutter free. I created customized folders to keep private and work emails separate. This way I can keep on eye on things when I'm "on call" without feeling like I'm still "at work".
When Thunderbird 115 comes out, will old add-ons still be usable? I also hope that better FILTERs will be added in the future. My idea: Like filters with node routing ( like.: Davinci Resolve Filter Editor / Blender Texture Editor / Node Red). Ai based filters for automatic tagging / filtering or removing mails (Yes exists as add-on but not great and can't be used as filter on mail inbox). More variabeln to use for better ways to filter messages. Also a headles operation as filter server... if you have many clients computers (with the synchronization option it should be already better.).
I have been a Thunderbird-User forever, and I have been on the verge of leaving for at least five years because the UI/UX is not up to date. I appreciate your effort to not step on anyone's foot with the changes you introduce, but on the other hand, it may be important to consider the unknown amount of people that don't use Thunderbird because it is so much less fun and easy to use than e.g. the gmail web app. I hope you come up with a new, nice, easy-to-use UI and a way better UX so that I can continue using Thunderbird! Thank you for your work :)
I'm very much looking forward to the new Thunderbird 115. One suggestion I would make is that when I favorite a sub-folder I do not see its Parent (above). It forces me to keep the parent expanded, and therefore soaks up space for a few more favorite sub-folders I'd like to add because I see each of their Parents. Perhaps this could be an option to "hide" the Parent so I can fit more favorites from multiple email accounts? I know I can collapse them, but that's against the idea of quick access if I want to drag/drop from the Inbox pane. Just a thought.
I think when you set up Firefox for the first time you get a customisation popup that allows to customise the feel of it, so the tool for Thunderbird should be there, and I think this is a good approach to highlight new design features. Also... Fuck all negative commentors. People developing these open source tools are the giants who carry us. Major respect to you guys.
Hi Alessandro, I just watched your video regarding the upcoming Changes.... I AM VERY EXCITED ABOUT WHAT I HEARD!!!! i have a few suggestions that might help... 😊 I would like to have the ability to save a "complete" PROFILE that includes all of my selections, options, settings, etc. ... that I could easily export and import to another PC .... ! I don't believe that exists in the current version .... Let me say again EASILY EXPORT AND IMPORT A COMPRIHENSIVE CONFIGURATION PROFILE TO ANOTHER SYSTEM ..... A CLONE FUNCTION... That said.... If that capability exists.... You could use it for the upcoming update/rollout... whereby an existing user could easily Save his CURRENT PROFILE ... Build a new profile using the new version's features; and save it as ANOTHER PROFILE .... This would allow multiple profiles to be built and saved.... and one could easily toggle between VARIOUS PROFILES .... which also could be easily shared with others that might like a particular "flavor" of an individual's Thunderbird configuration.... Just some "food for thought" ..... 😊😊😊
Have been using thunderbird for ages. Glad to see development moves on. 1 point of criticism: finding emails by using the search does not deliver a clear overview. Hope this will also be approved.
I would like the idea of a wizzard, what in real time show the changes of the ui as the user checks compares (clicks) the cahnges (even if those are premade pictures, but from a used stucture), because the basic/simplifed options like shown @ 12:24 without that are not enough. Also sometimes the tours are awsome as a new user, i set the software as i thought i will use it, but after a week or month i might forget the other option, while i used enough the product to see why changing to the other UI would be better for me than the current one >> tour-repromts, or "all allright?"-reminders as an option after a week, or month or after 20-30 program launches could be beneficial... I would use them at least, if i am seriously want to use something, and starting to seriously using it!
Will any of these improvements be applied to the Mail component of SeaMonkey, or has the close relationship between the 2 programs ended? Thanks for the great video!
This seems like a very good balance between current user needs and the needs of new users. The Firefox team could learn a lot from how Thunderbird handles these things! 💯 For the record, as an old-timey user, I think the single 'Welcome'-popup is a great idea.
While this looks great, the need for a new, multi-line message pane view is much more critical. Together with a lack of complete EWS/Exchange support, this is the biggest usability gap compared to Outlook, the main competitor to Thunderbird on the desktop.
What about a mode, where the inboxes are separated by account, but the folders are integrated between them? So like, a message comes in from mailbox a, and another comes in from mailbox b, and they're both the same kind of thing so you drag them both into "myFolder" and on the server side, both accounts now transparently have a "myFolder" and each one has its own email in that folder for each account? That would be a lot more streamlined and Outlook could eat its heart out.
![[4K] Watch SpaceX Catch A Starship Rocket From Space!!! #IFT5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIKI7y3DTXk/mqdefault.jpg)
We seriously cannot WAIT to put Thunderbird 115 in your hands. Let us know if you're excited about the new Folder Pane customizations!
please don't remove the chevron from the "Get Mail" button, we still need to be able to attach dropdowns on some toolbarbuttons. (tag toolbar, SmartTemplates etc.)
No one is removing that. Toolbar buttons are still there with the usual dropdowns
NO I"m NOT..... I'm sick of all this software- ALL of them- feeling like they have to have " NEW AND IMPROVED every ten minutes... Thunderbird works GREAT as is-- LeAVE IT THE F.. ALONE!!! And these other softwares- distros that feel like they have to have a brand new upgrade before you finish installing the latest one.. is BULLSHIT... enough.. I thnk all these should be NO MORE THAN eevery year-- and even that's too much... we now spend all our time upgrading this or updating that-- and its' - again-- BULLSHIT!!
I'm excited. I like Thunderbird a lot, but these updates also look welcome
Thanks for sharing, use of that 2007.
PLEASE keep continue making these in-depth overviews. UI and accessibility are the things that open-source software lack the most. These are excellent explanations. Keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
@@alecaddd in that vein, I have to ask... did you draw some inspiration to do these videos from Tantacrul (Martin Keary)? He's in charge of UI for Musescore and Audacity now and he's doing great work. The UI overview in this video reminds me of his UI overview vids.
I'm sorry you got negative feedback on your last video. I find these videos super interesting and hope you keep making them. I'm using Thunderbird as my daily email app, but that's just because other options keep disappearing, not because I love its current UI. I'm so happy to see these options for making the new UI look more modern and friendly.
I am so excited for this new UI and version, and so appreciate how thoughtful the planning is going so that those who like the old layout/preferences can still have them! Well done!
Thank you, I'm very glad the message is coming across clear. Many users just straight up assault me without even understanding what we're doing T_T
@@alecaddd Sometimes our community can be a little overprotective of what we have… but don't worry, it's a case of loud minority versus silent majority.
Thank you for your incredible work on that, it comes precisely when I was thinking about leaving thunderbird because of a feeling of using something very outdated. These updates are needed as you explained very clearly in your previous video!
Thank you so much for this encouraging message
I think having a one-off pop up to choose whether you want to keep the old UI or switch to the new one is a good idea. Otherwise many users who might prefer the new UI wouldn't even notice it's there.
Indeed
@@alecaddd Yes, that's a good idea. I would also add an option to remind me later.
So happy to see the return of Thunderbird. Can’t wait to see all modernisation in action ❤
I was having issues with the "old thunderbird" and quit it about a year ago and came back to it a couple of weeks ago. So far I am loving it!
Thank you for doing this. Untangling huge spaghetti code is one of the most dreadful tasks in developing so huge respect to the team.
Especially when it''s your own code, can't even blame anyone else
@@charliegolf2730 😂
I'm a software engineer myself and understand technical debt. I found your video made me feel confident in the future of Thunderbird. Thank you.
*Really* looking forward for the new Thunderbird UI! The fact that you've put so much effort been making it so customizable as to let different users choose how they prefer to have things arranged is one of the reasons I love Thunderbird!
Cheers
These changes are fantastic! Really love that these changes are trying to comfort everyone.
I aplaud you for not changing it completely and doing what MS did to outlook. No removing features, no drastic changes, just customizability. Well done.
"look at the white space!!!!.."" ... you bastard. You got me. Appreciate!
Ahahah, I'm still waiting for someone to rage quit the video at that exact point
I really appreciate the transparency here. And can't wait for 115 to be released!
Probably the most informative and well done video on RUclips. Thank you so much for keeping Thunderbird alive and preparing it for the future. Your video is very reassuring and positive. Super great work. Awesome!
Extremely articulate, well-presented summary of why and how the revisions/updates are being developed. I guess in order not to scare people, Alessandro had to repeatedly stress how one could keep the program running with appearances unchanged from before. I for one, welcome the options available for customization. Bravo!
Alessandro, you're down to earth and straight-forward - this is the way you build trust! Keep these vids coming - very informative.
we never say it often but we thank you all for working on beautiful free project
Our pleasure!
Thanks for the kind words!
Honestly, Thunderbird's UI is so ancient by now compared to modern porducts that I insist that you break it, please, go ahead 😂
That wouldn't sit well with many users, which is understandable :D
RUclips devlogs and open source software is such a perfect combination! I really think that this is the next stage for growing the community and getting feedback from casual users
Thank you Alessandro! For me, this video and the previous overview of Thunderbird's history was very useful! I am a fairly new Thunderbird user and I really like it. Your videos helped me appreciate the flexible user interface and also pointed me towards trying new features. Thank you.
The new folder pane looks great and I'm happy with the new UI. I like Thunderbird a lot and these changes in the UI are great because it's more intuitive and usable for more people(my family and co-workers in my case).
When you mentioned those who only use keyboard shortcuts:
Me: Yes, I'm one of those mentally ill🤣.
PD: Thanks for the video and sorry if the message is not understood, I'm just learning English.
Thank you so much for watching and for the positive feedback. Your English is perfect!
8 month ago he said, "I will explain it in another video" and we are still waiting...
Alessandro your videos are amazing. Please keep going!:)
Thank you for the video. I'm in my 70's and I used Outlook Express as long as I could. A friend even found a way to use it on Win 7. Finally due to the large number of files, it became unstable. I loved the format style so I found OE Classic, created by a group in a country close to the Ukraine. I really like it but it is not totally stable. Last nite it did an update and now it will load and immediately close. My tech friend wants me to go to Thunderbird. After watching a few videos, he is going to try and set that up for me tomorrow.
I do legal research and I have lots of SCOTUS case citations organized by subject. I use my e-mail client because it is faster to find things than using my word processor.
About being user friendly that you discussed. Some of us are just users. We get everything set up just the way we want and if new features come out, we many incorporate some of them, but we want the look, feel and general operation to remain unchanged. That is very important to use 'more mature' users. I really appreciate the fact that you have that in mind.
In one video I found out the files are in standard text format so we can access them even if the program crashes. That alone was enough to cause me to decide to make the switch.
Due to our aging population, I think it is wise to find a way to make your program so it can be customized with changing features for the younger crowd - but to also keep in mind that us more mature people learn more slowly and need to have the ability to incorporate new features slowly instead of having them forced on us.
I think putting simple tutorials on line that we can turn to as we need them. That way we could watch larger over views to see what we might like to incorporate, then turn to a tutorial that teaches us how to do that.
If your company would ever want to go into the operating system business, I would make the following recommendation: Make a clone of Win 7 Professional. Make all the neat and easy to use features permanent - then add extra options for people without screwing it up the way M/S did with the later versions. Some of us will use Win 7 as long as we can, which depends to some degree on how long Fire Fox will support it. We also have Win 10 here. No one likes it. I hate to think what Win 11 will be like.
Thank you for making Thunderbird work and work great!
You're explanations are great and help to understand the way Thunderbird is going.
Best regards to you and the whole Thunderbird team!
Thanks for watching
As an oooold user having multiple emails at home and at work (and some at both installations) I don't see myself going to single view for all the accounts.
But!
Would love to have an option to see "What's new" after the install and an easy way to see the new look when the time permits even after the install.
A great option would be to somehow "freeze" the look and then be able to play arround with options to my liking with a chance to "reset to my default".
Your presentation is a a REALY good way to get users to know the direction in which the design is moving and getting us aboard for new adventures! Kudos, KUDOS!!!
Options are always great to have. Very excited for the future of Thunderbird! Good luck to everyone involved who will have to deal with the grumps who don't like change (even when it's optional!)
Wow! This guy (and the Thunderbird team) "gets" it! Thank you for considering ALL users of Thunderbird and making it so configurable and adaptable - no matter what users prefer. That's excellent. Great Job!
Now, can you speak with the clowns that are currently running (ruining) Firefox, as they continually modify the browser into what THEY want it to be, rather than what the USERS want it to be, as they drive that once great browser into extinction? No common sense over there, that's for certain. NONE.
THANK YOU. I’ve waited 8 years to get off of the Windows 10 Mail app, but had gotten too used to the dead space. Trying to come back to Thunderbird had me feeling like 2005 claustrophobia was settling in.
This is an AMAZING change. I’ll be returning, and bringing all my IT inclined friends with me.
When I first installed 115, I really didn't like the changes. But, after a while, I gave it a second run and started to customize, simplify and even applied the Gnome theme to it. Now I like it a lot 🙂. For me, it's awesome to be able to customize so many things here. Everyone is different and if the tool tries to fit its owner, that's a good thing.
I think your idea of keeping as much as is possible is a very good idea. I was totally mystified why I don't have a 'get messages' button any more. It wasn't until I read your second video that I knew where it was (not a button anymore). Regards, AB
I really like the direction this is going so far. That tease at the beginning actually showed exactly what I would want. I didn't know unified folders were even an option, and that along with a cleaner, emptier window are reasons I currently use Windows Mail, but absolutely keeping an eye on this. That would mean without having seen this, is my Thunderbird updated without a pop up I'd be stuck assuming only the old ui I don't like is the only option.
Thank you for doing these videos! I can't wait to see the end result. I've bounced off the old Thunderbird several times, but I would love to switch to it. There are so few FOSS mail programs so this is awesome.
As a long time thunderbird user i just get read the headline "Thunderbird will get a new look". And my first thought was: Oh no, another good working product that goes down the drain. (Like food that has the label "new receipe!", which always means it is worse now.) After seeing your Video: Thank you for giving me hope to belive that thunderbird will be still usable after 115 !
more options, no forced changes. great design philosophy! thank you!
Man, this is really awesome. I'm usually very sad with the opensource apps ecosystem because the UX tends to be so bad. Now things are finally changing, seeing all the Gnome and KDE effort towards usability and now the Thunderbird project caring so much about UX. Congrats, man.
And hey, a suggestion: would be very nice to have some flatpak channel where I could download the Thunderbird Beta version. I would be very happy to try and report bugs but I'm not going to manually install it after every single new version.
We've already done the work, and we're just waiting to organize the transition of ownership with the FlatHub admins!
Cheers
GNOME and usability do not belong in the same sentence.
“Embrace the wastefulness!” 😂 I am fond of Thunderbird. Good luck with the redesign!
You had me going for a moment there with the ALL THE WHITESPACE bit! It’s funny because it’s so true: the UX world seems obsessed with whitespace, even though I know very few people who actually want it. So, THANK YOU for giving control to the user-on that and so many other things!
This is fantastic. I miss Thunderbird. I had to move away from it became difficult to deal with the bad performance, outdated UI and lack of features and functionality that are now commonplace in any webmail service. But I look forward to giving it a try. Frankly, I know some people are being harsh since the MZLA move, but the project is clearly moving in the right direction, and you seem like a great manager for it. I'm a front end developer, and I'd be very excited if I was working on this right now. Keep it up!
I think Thunderbird already looks very decent. Your changes will improve it on top! And you have an eye on giving the user the power to change the look and feel the way they like it. For me, you're doing everything right.
Thank you so much!
Really enjoy these videos, it makes me excited for what's to come with Thunderbird. Looking forward to the updates 100%.
That looks like a good approach. I'll admit I was getting a bit anxious the way you started this video, but now I'm thinking that if you pull this off the way you describe, you guys should be put in charge of all the UI upgrades in the universe.
I'm psyched for 115! Your genuineness and transparency are really valuable, and - as a fellow project manager - I can identify with the struggle of moving forward without alienating existing audiences. Thank you for this! (PS: You don't look a day over 30!)
Many thanks for showing us the Density button!!!!!
By default it opened up so squeezed I hated it, but after adjusting it looks fine
Thanks again!!!
This looks sleek! I'm so thrilled about the new version.
I am absolulety excited to see the changes on desktop and TB on mobile as well. Super!
Thank you for your great video. I wish more of the bigger open source players were communicating with their users like that. I was afraid that TB would go the Firefox way and change a lot of things for the sake of changing things making it a worse UX. That made me leave FF behind, after using it for more than 15 years. Many of the things you showed, make me really look forward to the next big TB release. Also some of the new features seam a great addition!
Thank you so much for this message
Hi Alessandro, don't worry about the trolls - there are many more people who really appreciate all the hard work you and your team are doing 👍 I for one am very much looking forward to using this new generation of TB. I am not a power user, just using it for personal emails, but I use it every day. Please keep up the good work. BTW it was nice to see the face behind the voice! 😁
Very nice explanatory video for the upcoming Thunderbird. Well done!
I've been a Thunderbird user for like forever (TBH, I've used KMail for sometime, but that was too many years ago). What I use much is the tags. At work I use many tags to label messages and what bothers me is that I'd like them to be more configurable. Besides the color you can assign a tag (for some reason, not all colors are displayed nicely, I don't know why), it might be a good idea to also assign a small icon or something. And what surely needs work is selecting from a list of tags to display the list of messages tagged while using the Quick filter option in the main bar. If you have many tags, the right and left arrows to scroll through these just to select them is too time consuming. There must be something quicker there to select the tags you need (maybe a input text box to autocomplete tags? I don't know).
Keep up the great work!
Very much looking forward to the new development of Thunderbird. I have honestly been not very happy with it for a long time and so I love the new energy and ideas you are bouncing around.
Alesandro, all looking great. The new text thingy will help my senior vision impaired clients. You can take a bow!
I'm very glad to hear that. Many users were outraged when I said "we're changing the UI to improve things for everyone", and they didn't believe me.
People who have worked with many different mailapps will know, Thunderbird has far most the best features and it’s incredibly customisable. Plus, it’s available for Mac and Windows. Keep going guys!
Thanks for all your past and future hard work
I just got the new design this week. Maybe it came even earlier but I didn't restart Thunderbird since weeks until it had problems closing a window yesterday. At first I didn't like the new design because everything was really densely packed. But now that I know about all the options I like it very much. I now found the font size and density that works best for me. And I also like the virtual tag folders. Before I always created them by myself with smart folders.
An additional idea from my side: At work we can define server-side filters that move messages to the right folders. But Thunderbird does not check each folder in the tree for new mails by default. I always have to go to the properties of each new folder and activate the checkbox for fetching new mails. It would be nice to have a general option per account that enables fetching the mails for each folder with one click, even for newly created folders.
Thank you for taking care of the dinosaurers user like me and making the UI customizable.
The "jak" on the electron part is weird, coz it would have been great to build the "new" thunderbird on it. IMO would give more customizability to the users, more addons and custom UI. Plus, much easier to maintain the app for all OS and distros. I'm still happy for your guys, for crawling out from tech dept. Thanks for your work!
Is full and stable maildir support on the roadmap?
Thanks for the configurable density and the unified folder mode. I'll be staying on the older high-density multi-account layout, but I am so excited about the possibility of not having to lecture new users.
Having easily configurable density is important for those with older devices or anything with screens with resolutions below 1080p.
Good direction and design philosophy -- looking forward to it.
Thanks for the video. Having you expalin the whys for upcoming changes is very nice. I am looking forward to using Thunderbird for years to come.
Having a customisable interface that can be tweaked at will, or stay the same is a nice approach. I look forward to giving it a try.
Loyal user for over a decade. Keep up the great work. Keep the Desktop version from becoming a mobile or tablet app. It is great as is, that is as Desktop Mail Client. Best Wishes.
I have to admit that professionally I am very glad to see the configurability of the UI be given to the user. So many applications these days just "go with the trend" and force users to many times worse ways (for them) to use the software. I would like to know, though, that what is the responsibility of the developers to "educate" the users to use better (objectively) solutions and ways, instead of just the "what everyone else is going with"? At which point does the developer have the responsibility to becoma a trendsetter?
I have been using Thunderbird & Firefox since they first rolled out - along with making donations when I can. I plan to continue using them as long as they are available. Keep up the good work! I agree with adding the new account wizard UI selection. More options is a good thing.
I like the new one. esp the blue bold for the selected item instead of the current black bold for the select item. The new orange dot in inbox icon is also looks cool
Looking forward to Thunderbird's future. I love it for the most part. The largest issue I have is the state of address book(s). Syncing with the actual email (Gmail) and sharing among the various address books needs to be seamless. If I never opened Outlook (whatever "version" they're pushing) again I would be happy!
It's very nice! Immediately it connected with the calendar contacts and mail, fast, fluid and easy to tweak a few things. Like to make the spaces large and hide the message view (small laptop screen). I really like it, I already made it the default! Thanks.
Lovely to hear this, thank you so much
I love Thunderbird (think Everyone here does, too)
Thanks to All who make it possible to us!
🥰🤗❤👍
Thank you so much, Ricardo!
Thank you Alessandro. Very appreciating the approach "we do not changes because is trendy (in italian: perchè fa fico ... 😉), but because there are plenty of concrete reasons behind". And the good news is that every user can choose if keep old configurations or switch to new ones. Very impatient to download Thunderbird 115 ... 💪
Great changes, glad to see that stuff introduced to TB!
Thank you so much, Thunderbird team :)
I am really looking forward to 115. I have been using Thunderbird ever since Eudora ended (there was a fuzzy transition in there somewhere I think). When my workplace all went over to Outlook I was the only one left using Thunderbird. At the time I could not do in Outlook what I could do in Thunderbird (not sure you can still). The customization available from the add-ons and the program itself has made my email life so much easier and productive. I'm also looking forward to the Android version.
Thanks for the video!
It would be useful to make a "Collapse all folders" shortcut, as when the tree is complex it would save a lot of time.
It would also be helpful to have the option to customize independently the folder's pane. For instance in my case, the folder tree should be more compact horizontally, because when you have a lot of subfolders, it expands to the right and you can't read everything well unless you expand the folder's pane too much to the right, which is not practical.
Thank you for this preview of what's coming in future Mozilla Thunderbird. I love Thunderbird and I donate a little every month.
Very exited to see the advancement in thunderbird, I'll be ready to switch with the k-9 to thunderbird switch is fully implemented.
Good to hear
Keep up the good work, Alessandro!
Thank you so much
My idea on how to approach these UI changes: have a popup after installing a new update that says "Here are the changes, keep old UI or try new UI" and when you pick the new UI you will get another dialog the next time you open the program, asking you to keep or revert the changes.
E: ofc I wrote the comment 5 seconds before you mention that approach in the video. My vote is on the one time popup. Perhaps with a quick before/after example picture.
Very informative and will be very helpful when the new version is released. Thunderbird has been my only email client for many, many years because I really like it. Now I suppose that I need to go and make another donation to keep it going.
yeah the dismissible prompt seems like a good option to appease old users and give new users a more modern interface they might be more comfortable with. I switched to Spark mail recently because I never felt good with all the clutter in Thunderbird, but I'm still following what you guys are up to. Keep it up!
Video fatto molto bene e il progetto sembra super promettente! Continuate così e buon lavoro!
Love the new design. The step into future. Looking forward to using it 💕👍
Excellent communication and philosophy of UI design, and such a massive contrast to how Firefox development and UI design has been going in the past decade.
I have used Thunderbird for so long I forget (since 3.0 at least). When my calendar broke a little over a year ago I temporarily switched to Betterbird, which I still use because it hasn't broken yet and it looks so much like Thunderbird I sometimes forget it's just a fork. At any rate, I hope your new version doesn't break Betterbird. Other than that I'm interested in what you come up with.
As to how I use the Folder Pane - compact with only Favorite folders usually visible, as well as the toolbar. It's easy enough to see more when I need to. This keeps things clutter free. I created customized folders to keep private and work emails separate. This way I can keep on eye on things when I'm "on call" without feeling like I'm still "at work".
When Thunderbird 115 comes out, will old add-ons still be usable?
I also hope that better FILTERs will be added in the future.
My idea: Like filters with node routing ( like.: Davinci Resolve Filter Editor / Blender Texture Editor / Node Red). Ai based filters for automatic tagging / filtering or removing mails (Yes exists as add-on but not great and can't be used as filter on mail inbox). More variabeln to use for better ways to filter messages. Also a headles operation as filter server... if you have many clients computers (with the synchronization option it should be already better.).
I have been a Thunderbird-User forever, and I have been on the verge of leaving for at least five years because the UI/UX is not up to date.
I appreciate your effort to not step on anyone's foot with the changes you introduce, but on the other hand, it may be important to consider the unknown amount of people that don't use Thunderbird because it is so much less fun and easy to use than e.g. the gmail web app.
I hope you come up with a new, nice, easy-to-use UI and a way better UX so that I can continue using Thunderbird! Thank you for your work :)
I'm very much looking forward to the new Thunderbird 115. One suggestion I would make is that when I favorite a sub-folder I do not see its Parent (above). It forces me to keep the parent expanded, and therefore soaks up space for a few more favorite sub-folders I'd like to add because I see each of their Parents. Perhaps this could be an option to "hide" the Parent so I can fit more favorites from multiple email accounts? I know I can collapse them, but that's against the idea of quick access if I want to drag/drop from the Inbox pane. Just a thought.
Man, no need to excuse yourself for doing something good, Everything you mentioned makes perfect sense and looks great!
In my world you are a kid. An experienced kid.
I honestly can't wait for the changes to roll in
We can't either :D
I think when you set up Firefox for the first time you get a customisation popup that allows to customise the feel of it, so the tool for Thunderbird should be there, and I think this is a good approach to highlight new design features.
Also... Fuck all negative commentors. People developing these open source tools are the giants who carry us. Major respect to you guys.
Good video, which makes curious and at the same time reassures.
Hi Alessandro,
I just watched your video regarding the upcoming Changes.... I AM VERY EXCITED ABOUT WHAT I HEARD!!!!
i have a few suggestions that might help... 😊
I would like to have the ability to save a "complete" PROFILE that includes all of my selections, options, settings, etc. ... that I could easily export and import to another PC .... ! I don't believe that exists in the current version .... Let me say again EASILY EXPORT AND IMPORT A COMPRIHENSIVE CONFIGURATION PROFILE TO ANOTHER SYSTEM ..... A CLONE FUNCTION...
That said.... If that capability exists.... You could use it for the upcoming update/rollout... whereby an existing user could easily Save his CURRENT PROFILE ... Build a new profile using the new version's features; and save it as ANOTHER PROFILE .... This would allow multiple profiles to be built and saved.... and one could easily toggle between VARIOUS PROFILES .... which also could be easily shared with others that might like a particular "flavor" of an individual's Thunderbird configuration....
Just some "food for thought" ..... 😊😊😊
Good job! But I would be happy if Thunderbird will have the option to switch the email background to dark and white, like in MS Outlook.
Have been using thunderbird for ages. Glad to see development moves on. 1 point of criticism: finding emails by using the search does not deliver a clear overview. Hope this will also be approved.
I would like the idea of a wizzard, what in real time show the changes of the ui as the user checks compares (clicks) the cahnges (even if those are premade pictures, but from a used stucture), because the basic/simplifed options like shown @ 12:24 without that are not enough.
Also sometimes the tours are awsome as a new user, i set the software as i thought i will use it, but after a week or month i might forget the other option, while i used enough the product to see why changing to the other UI would be better for me than the current one >> tour-repromts, or "all allright?"-reminders as an option after a week, or month or after 20-30 program launches could be beneficial... I would use them at least, if i am seriously want to use something, and starting to seriously using it!
Will any of these improvements be applied to the Mail component of SeaMonkey,
or has the close relationship between the 2 programs ended? Thanks for the great video!
Super cool video! Love the honest passion for ux
Thank you so much!
This seems like a very good balance between current user needs and the needs of new users. The Firefox team could learn a lot from how Thunderbird handles these things! 💯
For the record, as an old-timey user, I think the single 'Welcome'-popup is a great idea.
While this looks great, the need for a new, multi-line message pane view is much more critical.
Together with a lack of complete EWS/Exchange support, this is the biggest usability gap compared to Outlook, the main competitor to Thunderbird on the desktop.
Long at last, I can now use Thunderbird. Keep it up with the new UI
Whether the unified view reduces cognitive load depends entirely on what accounts you manage and the flows of mail in each
What about a mode, where the inboxes are separated by account, but the folders are integrated between them? So like, a message comes in from mailbox a, and another comes in from mailbox b, and they're both the same kind of thing so you drag them both into "myFolder" and on the server side, both accounts now transparently have a "myFolder" and each one has its own email in that folder for each account?
That would be a lot more streamlined and Outlook could eat its heart out.