Definitely, I replaced my 20 year old tumble dryer last year, new HP dryer uses a fraction of energy, last full load used 1.3kWh which it records itself (Samsung). Another bonus is that it isn't quite so hot as traditional unit with less chance of damage to certain items, albeit it does take longer.
Great video. I had no idea just how power wasteful our tumble dryer was until we had solar installed. Once I could see that the dryer was drawing more than the solar panels could power even in bright sunshine, it really brought it home. Luckily the dryer died shortly after, giving me the chance to buy a heat pump one, it literally sips energy, brilliant bit of kit. TBH the government should ban the old type, like they did with incandescent light bulbs
i’m not sure they would consider banning the old type of dryers until the Heat Pump ones come down to a similar price. Can you imagine if they put out a press release? That said £200 tumble dryers are now banned you need to spend £800 on a tumble dryer instead.
Had two but both would not work in our utility as the temperature would drop to 10degrees in winter in there. They claim that they will work at lower temperatures but sent the first back and sold the second for next to nothing. They were slow and took forever to dry a load so we replaced it with a second hand gas white knight tumble which is brilliant.
have heard of gas dryers (assume your in the US), they do t appear to be a thing here. HP dryers need warmer air to be able to work, so really need to be in the house
I came to this same conclusion 3 years ago when I paid nearly £700 for a Samsung A+++ heat pump dryer - with a busy family and electricity prices going through the roof it has paid itself back in the three years since. It's also safer and less harsh on the clothes due to lower temperature, and the low peak wattage keeps it within the battery discharge of my hybrid solar inverter.
it never occurred to me that they would be safer, but when I read up on the cause of tumble dryer fires, it seems linked to the heating element is what causes 95% of them. So that’s another added bonus of having a tumble dryer that can’t catch fire in that way.
I didn't own a tumble dryer before buying my Hotpoint heat pump tumble dryer, as the old electric resistive type was too expensive to use. But once I read the running cost of heat pump tumble dryers, and their price had fallen. I had to get one, as I was fed up with washing everywhere and how damp it made the flat. Another good way is dehumidifiers, which work the same way as Heatpump tumble dryers, minus the drum! Just hang your clothes on airers and close the door and windows to the room with a dehumidifier on.
yep we tried the dehumidifier option but found the room air was too dry, family didn’t like it. but tumble dryer works a treat and costs so little to ru
We ended up with a heat pump dryer when the old vented dryer failed after many years service and me repairing a number of times along the way. Looking at a replacemet was an eye opener, near enough all were heat pump models, totally new to me. Choice was based on what could be delivered soonest against cost, plus user feedback and eneded up with a Logik. Couldn't find one that pumped the water out, they all had reservoirs to empty which can me an issue as I seem the be the only one who empties it..... and the drying times are much longer. At first the time issue grates on you as your thinking old model costs against time it's on, and pretty much everything gets done on extra dry. Anything less like cupboard dry and it comes our feeling damp, but I have found on that lower setting, when finished, just leaving the door open for 30mins then a refesh cycle and it's dry. Can't say I've seen a massive drop in electricity costs, but for 2 of us we're not probably high users. But you have to keep an eye on the lint filters, not just the 2 we have for the drum, but the condenser in front as well every few months as that needs a clean to keep efficient & working.
we found if we shake the clothes as we take them out, that damp goes away immediately, its to do with moisture clinging to the surface of the clothes, a couple of good shakes and your good.
I'm disagreeing with what Google told you a vented tumble dryer uses! My experience, detailed below, shows that my vented tumble dryer is using about double the electricity that your heat pump dryer is using, and is on a par with my washing machine. It changes your return on investment calculation markedly and allows other selection criteria such as drying time to be more relevant. As I use my washing machine far more than my tumble dryer, I'm pointing my finger at the "A+++" rated washing machine as the real energy hog in my laundry scenario! Starting 30 years ago I had almost a decade of nightmares with a condenser dryer that took forever to dry even modestly damp clothing, and the machine could not keep up with the pace at which the washing machine was generating loads to be dried, which was infuriating. The condenser unit was often getting clogged with lint despite it supposedly being behind the lint filter, and cycles being interrupted because the dryer claimed the water collector was full, which it sometimes was, but other times was not. In 2017, when staying with friends during rehab, I experienced similar lousy performance with a combination washing machine/condenser tumble dryer and understood why my friends had resorted to an indoor drying rack. I eventually replaced my condenser dryer with a conventional vented dryer, when the sensors had failed for the umpteenth time, and was rewarded with quick and easy tumbling, until it finally started screaming like a ninja because the drum bearings were wearing out. It was a no-brainer to replace it with a more energy-efficient vented dryer after about 15 years of completely reliable service. With my new dryer being only about 6 years old, performing very well, and doing its job far faster than the washing machine can feed it, I'm not ready to throw it out purely in the name of energy efficiency. I would be interested in a heat pump dryer, but only if it vented the damp air outside, rather than returning to the extremely slow unreliable world of the integrated condenser. Maybe the damp warm air could be recirculated into the intake for my air source heat pump (soon to be installed) for home heating as surely the warmer the intake is, the easier it is for the heat pump to extract heat from!? In any event, my two most recent washes were both bedding - a heavy waterproof dog blanket and two lightweight throws, all double bed sized. I am a stickler for bedding being bone dry, so I tend not to be content even with the "extra dry" setting on my tumble dryer, as the completed sensor drying cycle leaves the item cooled down, and if I feel it's not ready to go back on my bed, I put it on the refresh cycle which lasts about 30 minutes, but interrupt it after 10 minutes and take the item out warm. In cold soggy December weather I added such a refresh to both loads. The washing machine took 2.12 kWh to wash both loads - unfortunately on the same day and I can't break down the loads retrospectively, but probably 1.06 kWh each as it was the same cycle in both cases, 30C synthetic followed by a separate 1600 RPM spin, as the synthetic wash only spins at 1000 RPM. The tumble dryer took 840 Wh for the "extra dry" and partial "refresh" cycles for the heavy dog blanket and 814 Wh for the same with the two lightweight throws. In November my washing machine consumed 15.19 kWh and my tumble dryer 15.944 kWh. Before the soggy autumn arrived, I was hanging out washing and only tumbling it to finish it if it didn't feel dry enough by evening. Thus, overall, during this time of year the tumble dryer is on par with the washing machine, and for the warmer and drier months the tumble dryer is used rather less than the washing machine. My main gripe is that my previous washing machine, replaced after over 20 years as the control panel became increasingly temperamental and it became very difficult to dial the required programme, had hot and cold water intakes whereas the new one only takes cold water and heats it directly with an integrated immersion heater. This means that the wash cycles now take a lot longer (eg. 2 hours for 40C synthetic) and although claimed to be "A+++" energy efficient, direct heating of water can't be as efficient as taking in water that has already been warmed by an air source heat pump. I think that cold water only intake is a design blunder and I'm wondering if I could make my smart home smarter by hacking the washing machine to convert it into a hot+cold inlet machine based on the cycle stage requiring just one additional solenoid valve.
We would normally get 4-6 years max from a tumble dryer so one of the reasons for paying a little more for ours was the 10 year warranty and the hot water fill on our washing machine to save on heating costs. I am sure everyone disagrees with google as everyones devices are different and have different experiances, load sizes etc, but I needed something to work from.
@@JonathanTracey I wonder if the results you were getting were influenced by the US machines. I say that because US washing machines are super fast compared to European devices. 40 minutes being a typical wash. My Mum's washer takes 2-3 hours for a load. For what I can see it's because the Europeans care a great deal more about electricity usage and water efficiency. The same might be true for dryers. Also I wonder what the economics of gas powered dryers are compared?
@ That’s the thing and it’s what some people miss. It’s an investment with benefits. Yes they are more expensive but they cost less to run, if it only lasts as long as our current condenser it will more than pay for itself with the lower electricity use. The lesser wear and tear through lower operating temperatures should mean it would last much longer anyway.
It’s strange that we apply return on investment to some things and not others, I definitely did the calculations for the tumble dryer but never for the washing machine
We have a normal condensing tumble dryer but its rarely used, although that may change when we install a heat pump. We usually hang the washing out to dry, which doesn't happen so much in the winter though, so currently it hangs on a clothes horse in the utility room, which has the boiler in it, it drys nicely. I know this isn't a good idea as it increase humidity, but it never seems to have been an issue. Obviously once a heat pump is installed the room won't be as warm. It is interesting to see how much cheaper it is to run a HP tumble dryer.
A lot of people are saying they dry their clothes in a similar way but add in a dehumidifier, takes a lot longer but cheaper than a vented dryer. With the HP dryer we just use it as it costs so little to run and it’s quick compared to a dehumidifier
We have a Beko HP tumble dryer - it is brilliant. The only thing with HP tumble dryers is to remember to give the clothes a shake once they come out; they can have a tiny bit of surface moisture on which evaporates immediately once shaken. Matt Ferall from the Undecided channel (I think) posted a video about it.
You can work out the minimum energy required to dry clothes by weighing them before and after. If you remove 1 kg of water then the minimum energy required to turn that into vapour is 2.27 MJ or 0.63 kWh. Could you try the experiment? Best wishes M
These are especially good in areas like Canada where the energy to heat the air that you are firing out of your house is not captured. When it's -20C outside and you run a conventional tumble dryer it sucks in hundreds of cubic feet of -20C air and fires out that same volume of heated air out in to the world. Having it ventless no longer has that problem, and any inefficiency that is loat as heat will actually stay inside your house adding to the h3at budget slightly. That's likely even better savings than the difference between the tumble and HP dryer direct from plug energy usage.
Is there no tech available to do heat recovery in cold climates. Have seen it on houses but never on a small scale. Wonder if its not worth it - no ROI on it
@JonathanTracey You can buy heat recovery units for the dryer vent, but they generally have condensation issues and it dumps large amounts of heat in to where ever your dryer is located which will spread out eventually but usually those will be in a laundry room or closet so less useful. The air replaced will still be coming in effectively randomly so it will make wherever that comes in colder. The ventless heat pump style dryer completely eliminates the issue while also saving energy on the actual running of the dryer, so it's a win all around.
Yes, we had a condenser dryer before the Heat Pump one, that captured the water in a large container that you just poured down the sink when it was full. The Heat Pump version operates exactly the same way, although it does have an option to plumber in to get rid of the water we just use it in the condensing roll.
Matt Risinger had a video on this about a week ago, attempting to calculate the cost of heating or cooling the outside air that the dryer sucked into the house. But he had ChatGPT run the numbers and I don't trust AI entirely.
We replaced our old vented machine with a Hotpoint heat pump dryer this time last year. AO had a deal on their eBay shop which meant it cost just under £500. Like you said, they really are miracle machines, and cost next to nothing to run (6p per hour according to yhe smart meter).
they seem to be a pretty rare thing in the UK, you’re only the second person I’ve heard of has a gas dryer. They seem a little more common in the US, but I didn’t even know that they were available here.
When our last tumble dryer died we replaced it with a heat pump dryer. While the drying programs are considerably longer they are often finished in a much shorter time. And when it's on, it uses next to nothing electricity wise. And that's according to our smat meter
I never looked into it enough so didn't realise they used so little energy and I've had a heat pump dryer for around 3 years. I don't have battery storage but do have an EV tariff so 90% of the time run it overnight whilst the car is charging. Very nice
Changed to a Hover heat pump dryer a few years ago same price as a vented dryer we've saved a Lot (one of my boys only likes tumble dried even in summer). We've solar and battery run it at night on our EV tarrif.
I think our washing and drying is our biggest energy use as we run holiday rental properties and do 20+ loads some weeks. I have some shelly plugs so will see what we are using. Sadly this time of year our AIO battery is getting sucked dry by our ASHP so we often find we are drying using peak rate energy.
I have one and yes they are amazing a must have for the winter month like you I have home battery storage so can use it anytime. I still sometimes use air drying with a de-humidifier but to beat the tumble dryer cost you've got to 2 or 3 loads
We have a heat pump tumble dryer and the saving over a conventional vented dryer is very significant even though it lives in the garage where the air is obviously cooler. One thing I should mention is that there are vented dryers that use a lower temperature element but run for longer because the manufacturers realised that it's much cheaper to run a motor than the element. Drying your laundry with lukewarm air for 90 minutes is cheaper than with hot air for 30 minutes, if you see what I mean ?
Our old dryer (a condenser) used to pull about 2kw when running, this one never goes over 500w. So even if it takes twice as long its still using half the power
HP dryer for us in the last 6 months. One of the main drivers being lower power usage keeps the 'whole house' within the power envelope of the battery inverter. I guess you'd call it 'peak demand smoothing'
We have a gas dryer which has a 5kW heater. At the current rates of about 5p per kW it will modulate but probably around 20p to do a load. The difference is that a load takes between 30 to 60 mins for a full load of cotton. My wife doesn't want to wait three hours for a full load of cotton. Ironically, I could do with an older inefficient tumble dryer for when Octopus Agile goes negative rates, nobody wants efficient appliances at those times. :)
I didn’t know you was in the UK, I’ve heard from a number of people of the US that have them but you’re the first I’ve ever heard of that one. Is it new or you had it a long time?
@@JonathanTracey Had it a looooong time. White Knight but they went into administration quite a while ago. Quite niche without a doubt and when it was looking like needing replacing, I had strict guidane from "Domestic Site Management" that anything that took longer than an hour was unacceptable. :D I did find a supplier of gas tumble dryers for about £1400. I do plan on an additional heat pump dryer at some point though, I'd like a Miele one too to go witht the dishwasher we have. You can buy a lot of electric for the price of them though. I think I worked out that the dish washer will break even when i'm just about dead.
Yes the main reasons we ponied up for the Miele was it’s 10 year warranty, we have a relative who has had a washing machine from them and it’s nearing 30 years old
We have a vented tumble dryer and on a full load it certainly does not take 5Kwh to dry a full load that seems excessive its probably about half that estimate. Does the Heat pump tumble drier need to be plumbed in the waste pipe ?
I think every load is going to be different depending on how damp the clothes are. Google‘s estimate seemed excessive but I’m sure it’s just an average across different load types and different sizes of tumble dryer. Yes, it can be plugged into the waist water, but it also has a condenser drawer so that the water tank can be pulled out and emptied if needed.
That is two or three, have change you water heater to heat pump, the difference is amazing. Also if you install it intelligently you can use it as a whole house ventilator and attic dryer.
@ it was a matter of needs must. It is in a closet on the landing and we didn’t want to block access to other random bits we have in there (we don’t have a garage for miscellaneous items)
Your Heat Pump dryer wouldn’t work in your garage. It needs slightly warmer temperature of air because the heat pump is so small. If you put it out in a garage, it would take forever to dry clothes.
Very happy with my Hotpoint HP dryer. I only pay 7p per unit and have 18kwh of battery so it is incredibly cheap to use. It is worth noting how these low prices for power stack up electric car gives access to lower overnight tariffs, then house batteries pass this saving to the house. HP then make even more sense.
yeah, once you go down that energy saving route the more things that you have, electric cars, heat pumps, energy saving appliances, they all get cheaper to run.
You save £1 cos of the heat pump dryer (1kWh vs 5kWh) and a further 17p cos of the home battery (24.5p/kWh vs 8.5p/kWh), so the savings from the dryer are about 6x the savings from the storage (for drying clothes). From an efficiency perspective, the dryer uses a fifth of the electricity to dry the load, but the battery actually loses more due to charge/discharge losses. This means we should be promoting heat pump dryers 5-6x more than we promote home batteries?
yes, but as you point out they’re not mutually exclusive, having the battery to store the cheap rate electricity makes running the Heat Pump tumble dryer even more efficient. As I was just talking to somebody about having home batteries I think is the key to energy savings. If I was doing this all over again, I would start with the batteries.
@JonathanTracey It's more efficient without any battery, as you lose energy when filling and draining the battery from the grid, also from inverter standby losses. It definitely uses more than 1kWh from the grid to provide 1kWh through a battery (if charged from the grid)
I've had a heat pump ventless GE Profile combo washer/dryer for a year and I love it. It uses about 1.5 kWh per load (that includes washing too). Some loads use more and some use less. Don't forget that it isn't pushing out 200 CFM of conditioned air. I'm paying about $0.04 per kWh.
I use a Stielbol-Eltron Tempra 15 Plus instant hot water unit so no tank. But it isn't used since I do a cold water wash. My detergent doesn't need hot water.
we generally was at 30- 40 degrees depending on items but we love crisp white bedding and that’s gonna need a high temp wash. not sure we could get the same results in a cold wash
yes it recycles heat, so you do t have to heat the air as much, a vented dryer has a heating element and a fan to blow their over the cloths, when it is full of moisture the air is vented and that heat is lost, so it started again heating new air.
I had a heat pump tumble dryer, they will dry your clothes if you can wait all day. If you need stuff drying quickly forget it. Got rid of it and gone back to normal condenser. Not noticed much difference in electric costs to be honest. I would never consider a heat pump in any capacity again.
I'm unsure whether heat pump tumble dryers are available in the US. I'll check. THey certainly look like an excellent solution. However I think you should point out that life is always a compromise, and the disadvantage of these dryer types in the load capacity. Not unreasonably they have to fit a load of extra technology within a defined size box. So yes they are brilliant, BUT, if you have a house with seven people, three of whom are under 6, then it simply might not be big enough. Just another thing to consider. Unfortunately it seems there are no free lunches in physics.
We got one initially to cut down on moisture as our old non hp one didn't externally vent due to kitchen layout in our previous house. We've since moved, and we have our washer and hp tumbler in our garage, sectioned of and as thermally insulated as possible. It with pv + battery it's fairly energy efficient, but still cold in that garage utility, so not as good as if it was in a warm house
@JonathanTracey It work, but being essentially a hp it's more efficient in ambient/ warmer temperatures. Typically, with a full load, it's an avg of 1.5kwh's of energy. This is with it running for about 4 hours 30 minutes at 300-350w. We did have one night where it was so cold it would run as scheduled, but we have some futher insulation and hole plugging to do. Alway run via the cheap Go period, to spare the battery, which is being charged at that point anyway
Yeah, I suppose it needs heating in the air so if it’s in a cold room, it will be sufficient. Did you end up pencil in the whole room? It was in or just around the tumble dryer?
@JonathanTracey it was about a 3rd of the garage space. What we haven't had time to do is insulate around the slightly raised floor edges, and it had a legacy loft style hatch (really stupid and pointless) which either needs sealing or insulating too. Oh, and the side door is wooden. While decent, needs some seals around door frame. So room for improvements lol. However, only had it freeze up once so far this year, where as last year, same time it had done so 5-6 times. So a 'definite' improvement, excusing the fact I never recorded the temperatures on each freezing event.
Commenting from the US. Heat pumps are just now becoming a thing here in the States. This year I installed three mini split solar powered heat pumps and we absolutely completely love them. Their energy efficient and they work very, very well. Interestingly our dryer (I believe I heard it referred to as a tumble dryer) is on its last legs and going out. I did some research and decided to go with a heat pump dryer. Here in the US we have much larger washer and dryer units then do most Europeans. I found a new LG heat pump dryer that has a large capacity and is very energy efficient. I think the biggest thing that trips up US consumers on heat pump dryers is the length of time to do the drying. US dryers that use conventional electric heating elements or gas, dry very quickly compared to the heat pump dryer. On a small load our old dryer when it was new could dry a load in half an hour. After doing all the research I understand the differences in the two dryers but I'm looking forward to a couple of things for our household. 1. Energy savings, most US electric tumble dryers use between 3000 to 4000 watts on high to do the drying. 2. Vented dryers as stated do pull air out of your home. I'm very much looking forward to the energy savings for our electric bill and the fact that I can seal up the outside vent for our dryer. I'm completely okay with the driving time taking much longer as I have adjusted my thinking and tolerance for long laundry loads when we got our first front load washer 20 years ago. 20 years ago front load washers were rare in the US and now they are very common and outsell top load units. I think the same will happen with heat pump dryers eventually. I'm getting my delivery for my new heat pump dryer this Saturday and I am pretty excited to see how everything works.
Sounds interesting, I assume you need a larger capacity plug for a dryer in the US, as 120v probably would take forever to dry clothes. Do you need to have a 240v hookup installed? our HP dryer takes about 10-20% longer than a vented dryer to reach the same level of dryness, but uses 1/5th of the power.
@JonathanTracey it depends on what unit you get. We have combo units which that have just come out in the past year or so that are a washer and dryer all in one and they are new to us but some of them use 120 volts and everything I've read say they do take longer. The LG unit I'm getting uses 208 volts and uses a standard electric dryer plug here in the US. Most US households come with a dryer outlet which is rated for 220 volts next to a vent hole in our laundry room. Everything I've read about the LG unit says that it does a spectacular job. In case you're curious the model I'm getting is the following "LG dlhc5502"
Oh that’s interesting. I didn’t realise they came a standard in the house. I know a little bit about how US electrical systems work and that you can get 220 V by effectively using 2×110 V circuits together. But I didn’t realise that was standardised for dryers. I do recall a few years ago a friend of mine had a gas powered dryer in his house which I always thought sounded like a fire waiting to happen.
@JonathanTracey I'm impressed that you knew that about the US electrical system but not surprised, you probably know more about our electrical system than most Americans 🤣. As far as it being standard, yes you are correct we do 240 by combining 2-120s and the 240 volt dryer hookup is ubiquitous in American homes. I would say the ratio of electric to gas if I had to guess is probably 80% electric and 20% gas. I'm with you about the gas dryer, our electric dryers cause enough fires as it is, I couldn't imagine a gas dryer being safer. That is one of the reasons that I getting a heat pump dryer so we can seal up our outdoor vent which is the cause of most dryer fires in the United States as it gets clogged and most people don't bother with ever cleaning them out. I have pretty high hopes for the heat pump dryer and I think I'm going into it with an understanding of the differences between it and a typical electric dryer. Since we have had x front load washers for over 20 years I'm pretty accustomed to longer laundry times and they really don't bother me anymore. I tend to schedule laundry at night to wash and put things in the dryer in the morning. One distinct advantage of the heat pump dryer is that I would feel safe running that overnight or if I had to leave the house much as I do our washing machine or dishwasher. That is something I would never, ever do with our traditional electric dryer as I would be terrified of a fire even though I do clean it and do maintenance on it.
I’ve spent a lot of time in the US over the last few years of my career, and always found the differences in the electrical systems fascinating. I didn’t realise it was a common thing to install a 220 plug but I suppose if clothes dryers are common then it makes sense.
That's very good. I have a heat pump washer-dryer and the last time it ran, it used about 0.9kWh in total. It does take about 1.8kW (not kWh) while it's running and after a time it starts cycling which I suspect yours doesn't do; it looks like yours may modulate and get greater efficiency again as a result. If mine is running during the cosy period - that handy afternoon slot of cheap energy I get - that's going to cost me about 10p. If it's running during the most expensive period, that's around 30p. If it's running off my battery during the most expensive period, it's going to cost me around 13p after conversion losses. I don't use it for every load; I still have a washing line for when the weather is good for drying!
@@JonathanTracey I don't know. I have a feeling no because I think the heat pump is water-to-air for drying and it does mention heat pump specifically for the dryer function.
I’m trying to figure out how we would work in my head as an air to water Heat Pump, but it would need to be quite large so I think it’s probably only used as you say for the drying cycle
Cue the people overly obsessed with how long their laundry takes to dry. 🤣 I'm happy with my Samsung one, the only downside is bedclothes always get tied up in a knot. I think it's because the drum probably only spins one way, and not because it's a HPTD. Will mine pay for itself? possibly not, but the ageing condensing one it replaced didn't always dry properly, and it was also from one of the brands (but not models) that had recalls for the fire risk. Something that is much less of a worry with a heat pump tumble dryer - no heating element to overheat.
i never considers the fire risk, it’s just not a thing with heat pumps is it? it does take a little longer to dry clothes but at 1/5 of the price i will put up with that
@@JonathanTracey It's very unlikely, but there are still factors that make it a fire risk, like a spark from faulty electronics igniting the lint. However, that's not unique to it being a heat pump tumble dryer. Having the heat pump eliminates the heating element - arguably the biggest fire risk.
Electrical faults could cause a fire no matter what type of heating system you use, but as you say eliminating the heating element stops 90% of the tumble dryer fires that happen when Lind gets into contact with the heating element
Would love to see a video about you buying the electric at night and storing it in the batteries. Seriously considering it but do the numbers/usage add up?
That looked like a really small load of washing.I have a tumble dryer which hardly gets used, dehumidifier for my clothes im afraid. Takes a while to dry but my clothes thank me for it, they go through enough stress being washed.
it’s actually our 5th, fridge and freezer and my EV has. a heat pump heating system, but if you tell people you have 5 heat pumps they look at you strange :-)
Which dryer would you recommend that would be best for a house with an autistic cat. We have been having problems with the cat sleeping in the washing machine in the past and would like to get one whixh would help prevent the cat from jumping inside with the door open. I used to work on a popular website and any searches put into the website were recorded and analysed for trends, sorting, etc and one of the most common ones was "how do i stop my cat from falling down the toilet"
Interesting how google suggests this video a day or so after I searched for information on the payback for heat pump tumble dryers! We have a condensing tumble dryer, looking at our smart energy plug we typically use between 1-2kWh each time it’s on, with a few daily peaks over the year at 3kWh (which may have been two loads). So man-maths, taking 1.5kWh average, use it every 3 days on average over the year (more in winter, less in summer), a 50% saving with heat pump tumble dryer would be 182.5kWh a year, or £27 a year at 15p unit rate (we almost always run it overnight). There’s clearly a saving to be had but it’d take a 3-6 years to payback the additional cost depending on price premium. Interesting.
yep savings will differ depending on a few factors, we also factored in the warranty, our last condenser dryer lasted about 4.5!years, had a 3 year warranty. the HP dryer came with a 10 year warranty but was 2.5x the price
I firmly believe that as we have been upgrading our appliances over the last 10 years or so we have pretty much offset the EV we have. That includes changing every light in the house to LED (the living & dining room alone went from 300w down to 35w for the 2 rooms, heat pump dryer from an old D rated condenser, A+ to A+++ for the fridge, freezer, washing machine and dishwasher. Newer games consoles use less etc. 10 years ago we used around 9000kWh a year before an EV and oddly we still hover around that sort of range (+/- 500kWh a year) but include the 3000kWh for the car as well. I think the lighting has made such a difference, can't remember the exact figures but if every old bulb was on, it was around 1.1-1.2kW of lighting alone! Now down to under 200w. Energy efficiency makes a huge difference, just look at the national grid, 2012 it was generated 318TWh but last year it was 250TWh with 1.3 million EV's and how ever many thousand heat pumps!
Sounds like your heading in the right direction, non led lighting is such a power draw, we got rid of our last halogen light a couple of years back, now they draw so little power it’s not worth monitoring
All very well but hp tumble driers take longer to dry the washing so that means more wear and tear on your clothes, towels, what have you. Plus tye machines are more complex with additional failure potential and may need additional servicing as the heat exchanger can become clogged with lint necessitating an engineers visit, amounting to the equivalent saving of perhaps another year’s energy. I’m still not sold on this.
they do take longer but only about 20% longer and we have not noticed anything wearing out because of its use. no issues with lint clogging by anything, if anything the filter system is far superior to a vented dryer and easier to clean. there are no servicing needs for our dryer with regard to the heat pump, infact the manufacturer is so confident in their appliance it comes with a 10 year warranty
Yep. If you can afford them, HP tumble dryers are worth the extra cost. When our old condenser drier died after only 3 years (drum bearing failure) we got a Samsung HP model. We would have liked to have got a Miele to match our Miele W/M but it was just too much. The only real snag is that you can't install HP dryers in an unheated space (e.g. garage, out house etc) because they won't run with ambient temps below 10-12c. This meant I had to find space in our kitchen & loose some storage space. Program times are longer but they are much kinder to the clothes with a lower less intense heat. Much quieter as well. As well as the normal drum door air filter it's a bit of a faff having to clean the damp lint from evaporator coil with a supplied brush every so often. Our machine is built in so cabinet kick plates have to be removed to get access to the low down access door. Whilst ours can be plumbed in for auto waste water removal we still use the manual empty water container. All in all it's a good machine. Hopefully it will last longer than our last one 🤞
unless I'm missing something doesn't the heatpump tumble dryer remove heat from the air in the room that you've also paid to heat so that needs to be factored in too?
not exactly it takes air from the room not heat, it then extracts the heat from that air by compressing it. it then exhausts cooler dehumidified air. so yes you lose a tiny bit of heat but because of the COP you get 3-4x as much heat back. so net gain in heat
Thanks for that. I will gently prod my wife towards choosing a HP tumble drier when ours shows signs of packing up or setting the house on fire. With regard to your domestic HP count do you not have one in your car?
Interesting analysis though your battery storage skews the results in pence per load, i had a very quick scan at the Which site and a hest pump best buy used £46 and the best vented £128 so there is a £82 pa saving at their rste of use. Unfortunately there is a £500 cost difference to deal with so to recover the outlay 6.25 years payback and most of the tumble dryers dont have a 5 year or better warranty though everyones circumstance is different, my wife is a tumble addict so i suspect my payback would be shorter though the machnes location in the extension is not kept at full house temperature so that may impact. We will probably purchase the best heat pump dryer with a 5 yesr warranty and run it alongside our Bosch vented dryer as i dont throw away perfectly usable appliances until they are not economically repairable. Worth noting your Miele are very efficient and do have long wsrranties.
That is why we chose the Miele it came with a 10 year warranty as standard and we can extend that out to 20 years if we choose. The repayment period is quite long but it has another benefit, especially when coupled with smaller residential solar systems. the standard install today seems to be about 3.6kw and a vented dryer can pull nearly 3kw on its own, so if your trying to use battery stored power you will end up drawing from the grid if you go over 3.6 total. A 500w dryer gives you a lot more head room to keep you under 3.6kw
all power to you, we use our conservatory as a living room, so hanging washing is a no go. in the summer we do hang clothes outside but definitely not in winter
Had one a year now, didnt want to spend the money on a Miele one though, coz it was over twice the price of our LG .😀 its been great.Takes a bit longer to dry than old one, but far cheaper to run, got it plumbed in, so no water containers to empty either.
my uncle and aunt have a washer from them that’s over 30 years old. it’s had a few new parts over the years but still going strong and amazingly miele still have parts when it needs some TLC
Expensive products save energy but you have spent far more than average on the initial outlay to buy the item. So the return is not what you think it is. Breaking even or even losing money.
your making assumptions that are wrong. the solar and battery system has been in place for 15 years, as parts pay for themselves we have upgraded and expanded as we go. so we’re not losing money we are making money every day the sun shines
Another Q, sorry. Just got the survey results back and all is good and the original £8,000 quote from Octopus is all good so just £500 for me to pay. The only extra was planning needed at £330, did you need that as well? It seems a bit weird as it will be installed on the rear of my property and the nearest boundary left / right to where it will be is 3.5 meters.
no i didn’t need planning, the boundary isn’t an issue any more but could be for noise, if they think it will be over the limit. this could be down to many factors. your octopus team should be able to tell you why
@@JonathanTracey Yeah, they just got back to me, the nearest neighbouring window is 5.2 meters away from the edge of the heat pump. On that premise I can't see how the vast majority of people get away without planning. I suspect you'd struggle to hear it at that distance anyway, let alone through modern double glazed windows.
@@MrFish1968 Many meet the standards of 'permitted development' as required by 'MCS 020 standard' (do a search on that), this is worth a read, it is also being updated in December to reflect current rules.
If anybody is thinking about a heat pump. Upsidedownfork you tuber is good as he had a heat pump installed, and is very transparent about the outcome. Also, Tim&Kats Green walk; Speak to the geek; urban plumbers, jonathan tracey; and Heat Geek series are good to get real life examples. Better than literature reviews. Too much of the heat pump debate is politically motivated and, hence, becomes toxic.
I was on Caribbean cruise a few years ago and got talking to an American, and he was moaning how their energy prices had risen and his dryer was on every day and it was costing so much! I said to him, why don't you put your washing out on the line? He looked at me in disgust and said to me " because we don't live on a trailer park" Did we laugh😂😂
@@jezzaandrews1940 I think you hit the nail there, are there not some 'neighbourhood' schemes where self appointed wardens tell them when they can or can't hang out washing or cut grass etc. Some strange people out there.
i think there are a lot of people in the uk with that attitude. we put ours out in the spring and up till about october, but from the. it’s too wet/cd for it to dry most days
in the USA they have HOA,s that seem things like washing or unkept lawns devalue others property’s and can fine you very large amounts for not complying g with their rules
Nothwithstanding the truth that HP tumble dryers are more efficient, your maths were off as you priced the vented dryer at normal rates but the HP dryer on cheap night rates. To be fair you should calculate the vented cost as half of 5.34kwh x 8.5p or 22.7p.
Why was this “Shocking” ? As per the title? Please don’t perpetuate this click bait nonsense by indulging the algorithm. Good video. Didn’t need the click bait.
Thanks for the feedback, I use a tool that tests different titles and thumbnails to see which resonate more with different people. The more click bait type titles draw about 25% more watches than non click bait titles. I’m afraid that’s the algorithm driven world we live in. Sorry you didn’t get the normal ones, hope it didn’t detract from the video too much.
Do you think the economics stack up to have a heat pump tumble dryer?
Yes… I swear by it here.
yes , no heat vent outside and it dehumidifies too.
Definitely worth it. Ours has been working for 10 years
Definitely, I replaced my 20 year old tumble dryer last year, new HP dryer uses a fraction of energy, last full load used 1.3kWh which it records itself (Samsung).
Another bonus is that it isn't quite so hot as traditional unit with less chance of damage to certain items, albeit it does take longer.
Not if you line dry 😉
I have had a Bosch heat pump tumble drier for the past 6 years. One of the best purchases I ever made. Works well with the solar.
agree with low running costs we just use it without worry how much power it uses.
Great video. I had no idea just how power wasteful our tumble dryer was until we had solar installed. Once I could see that the dryer was drawing more than the solar panels could power even in bright sunshine, it really brought it home. Luckily the dryer died shortly after, giving me the chance to buy a heat pump one, it literally sips energy, brilliant bit of kit. TBH the government should ban the old type, like they did with incandescent light bulbs
i’m not sure they would consider banning the old type of dryers until the Heat Pump ones come down to a similar price. Can you imagine if they put out a press release? That said £200 tumble dryers are now banned you need to spend £800 on a tumble dryer instead.
Had two but both would not work in our utility as the temperature would drop to 10degrees in winter in there. They claim that they will work at lower temperatures but sent the first back and sold the second for next to nothing. They were slow and took forever to dry a load so we replaced it with a second hand gas white knight tumble which is brilliant.
have heard of gas dryers (assume your in the US), they do t appear to be a thing here. HP dryers need warmer air to be able to work, so really need to be in the house
@@JonathanTracey A friend had one some one some ago but yeah very rare in UK
I kept ours in the garage (Samsung) it was fine through the cold months, doesn't get used in the summer as we have a line.
I came to this same conclusion 3 years ago when I paid nearly £700 for a Samsung A+++ heat pump dryer - with a busy family and electricity prices going through the roof it has paid itself back in the three years since.
It's also safer and less harsh on the clothes due to lower temperature, and the low peak wattage keeps it within the battery discharge of my hybrid solar inverter.
it never occurred to me that they would be safer, but when I read up on the cause of tumble dryer fires, it seems linked to the heating element is what causes 95% of them. So that’s another added bonus of having a tumble dryer that can’t catch fire in that way.
We have had a Beko HP tumble dryer for nearly 2 years. It cost only £399 and has been brilliant. Totally recommended.
Never had a Beko appliance, would you recommend them? At that pricer for HP dryer thats hard to say no to
@@JonathanTracey Hi JT, it's our first Beko appliance. It's extremely well made and yes we would highly recommend them.
Thanks will take a look next time we’re replacing any appliances
I didn't own a tumble dryer before buying my Hotpoint heat pump tumble dryer, as the old electric resistive type was too expensive to use. But once I read the running cost of heat pump tumble dryers, and their price had fallen. I had to get one, as I was fed up with washing everywhere and how damp it made the flat.
Another good way is dehumidifiers, which work the same way as Heatpump tumble dryers, minus the drum! Just hang your clothes on airers and close the door and windows to the room with a dehumidifier on.
yep we tried the dehumidifier option but found the room air was too dry, family didn’t like it. but tumble dryer works a treat and costs so little to ru
We ended up with a heat pump dryer when the old vented dryer failed after many years service and me repairing a number of times along the way. Looking at a replacemet was an eye opener, near enough all were heat pump models, totally new to me.
Choice was based on what could be delivered soonest against cost, plus user feedback and eneded up with a Logik.
Couldn't find one that pumped the water out, they all had reservoirs to empty which can me an issue as I seem the be the only one who empties it..... and the drying times are much longer.
At first the time issue grates on you as your thinking old model costs against time it's on, and pretty much everything gets done on extra dry. Anything less like cupboard dry and it comes our feeling damp, but I have found on that lower setting, when finished, just leaving the door open for 30mins then a refesh cycle and it's dry.
Can't say I've seen a massive drop in electricity costs, but for 2 of us we're not probably high users. But you have to keep an eye on the lint filters, not just the 2 we have for the drum, but the condenser in front as well every few months as that needs a clean to keep efficient & working.
we found if we shake the clothes as we take them out, that damp goes away immediately, its to do with moisture clinging to the surface of the clothes, a couple of good shakes and your good.
I'm disagreeing with what Google told you a vented tumble dryer uses! My experience, detailed below, shows that my vented tumble dryer is using about double the electricity that your heat pump dryer is using, and is on a par with my washing machine. It changes your return on investment calculation markedly and allows other selection criteria such as drying time to be more relevant. As I use my washing machine far more than my tumble dryer, I'm pointing my finger at the "A+++" rated washing machine as the real energy hog in my laundry scenario!
Starting 30 years ago I had almost a decade of nightmares with a condenser dryer that took forever to dry even modestly damp clothing, and the machine could not keep up with the pace at which the washing machine was generating loads to be dried, which was infuriating. The condenser unit was often getting clogged with lint despite it supposedly being behind the lint filter, and cycles being interrupted because the dryer claimed the water collector was full, which it sometimes was, but other times was not. In 2017, when staying with friends during rehab, I experienced similar lousy performance with a combination washing machine/condenser tumble dryer and understood why my friends had resorted to an indoor drying rack.
I eventually replaced my condenser dryer with a conventional vented dryer, when the sensors had failed for the umpteenth time, and was rewarded with quick and easy tumbling, until it finally started screaming like a ninja because the drum bearings were wearing out. It was a no-brainer to replace it with a more energy-efficient vented dryer after about 15 years of completely reliable service. With my new dryer being only about 6 years old, performing very well, and doing its job far faster than the washing machine can feed it, I'm not ready to throw it out purely in the name of energy efficiency. I would be interested in a heat pump dryer, but only if it vented the damp air outside, rather than returning to the extremely slow unreliable world of the integrated condenser. Maybe the damp warm air could be recirculated into the intake for my air source heat pump (soon to be installed) for home heating as surely the warmer the intake is, the easier it is for the heat pump to extract heat from!?
In any event, my two most recent washes were both bedding - a heavy waterproof dog blanket and two lightweight throws, all double bed sized. I am a stickler for bedding being bone dry, so I tend not to be content even with the "extra dry" setting on my tumble dryer, as the completed sensor drying cycle leaves the item cooled down, and if I feel it's not ready to go back on my bed, I put it on the refresh cycle which lasts about 30 minutes, but interrupt it after 10 minutes and take the item out warm. In cold soggy December weather I added such a refresh to both loads.
The washing machine took 2.12 kWh to wash both loads - unfortunately on the same day and I can't break down the loads retrospectively, but probably 1.06 kWh each as it was the same cycle in both cases, 30C synthetic followed by a separate 1600 RPM spin, as the synthetic wash only spins at 1000 RPM. The tumble dryer took 840 Wh for the "extra dry" and partial "refresh" cycles for the heavy dog blanket and 814 Wh for the same with the two lightweight throws. In November my washing machine consumed 15.19 kWh and my tumble dryer 15.944 kWh. Before the soggy autumn arrived, I was hanging out washing and only tumbling it to finish it if it didn't feel dry enough by evening. Thus, overall, during this time of year the tumble dryer is on par with the washing machine, and for the warmer and drier months the tumble dryer is used rather less than the washing machine.
My main gripe is that my previous washing machine, replaced after over 20 years as the control panel became increasingly temperamental and it became very difficult to dial the required programme, had hot and cold water intakes whereas the new one only takes cold water and heats it directly with an integrated immersion heater. This means that the wash cycles now take a lot longer (eg. 2 hours for 40C synthetic) and although claimed to be "A+++" energy efficient, direct heating of water can't be as efficient as taking in water that has already been warmed by an air source heat pump. I think that cold water only intake is a design blunder and I'm wondering if I could make my smart home smarter by hacking the washing machine to convert it into a hot+cold inlet machine based on the cycle stage requiring just one additional solenoid valve.
We would normally get 4-6 years max from a tumble dryer so one of the reasons for paying a little more for ours was the 10 year warranty and the hot water fill on our washing machine to save on heating costs. I am sure everyone disagrees with google as everyones devices are different and have different experiances, load sizes etc, but I needed something to work from.
@@JonathanTracey I wonder if the results you were getting were influenced by the US machines. I say that because US washing machines are super fast compared to European devices. 40 minutes being a typical wash. My Mum's washer takes 2-3 hours for a load. For what I can see it's because the Europeans care a great deal more about electricity usage and water efficiency. The same might be true for dryers. Also I wonder what the economics of gas powered dryers are compared?
It could be, but the results were based on a UK website. Our gas dryer is still a thing in the US?
We had already decided to invest in a heat pump tumble drier when our current condenser tumble dies. Your test confirms that decision.
def worth the investment, will take a few years to pay for itself though
@ That’s the thing and it’s what some people miss. It’s an investment with benefits. Yes they are more expensive but they cost less to run, if it only lasts as long as our current condenser it will more than pay for itself with the lower electricity use. The lesser wear and tear through lower operating temperatures should mean it would last much longer anyway.
It’s strange that we apply return on investment to some things and not others, I definitely did the calculations for the tumble dryer but never for the washing machine
We have a normal condensing tumble dryer but its rarely used, although that may change when we install a heat pump. We usually hang the washing out to dry, which doesn't happen so much in the winter though, so currently it hangs on a clothes horse in the utility room, which has the boiler in it, it drys nicely. I know this isn't a good idea as it increase humidity, but it never seems to have been an issue. Obviously once a heat pump is installed the room won't be as warm. It is interesting to see how much cheaper it is to run a HP tumble dryer.
A lot of people are saying they dry their clothes in a similar way but add in a dehumidifier, takes a lot longer but cheaper than a vented dryer. With the HP dryer we just use it as it costs so little to run and it’s quick compared to a dehumidifier
We have a Beko HP tumble dryer - it is brilliant. The only thing with HP tumble dryers is to remember to give the clothes a shake once they come out; they can have a tiny bit of surface moisture on which evaporates immediately once shaken. Matt Ferall from the Undecided channel (I think) posted a video about it.
yep we noticed that when we got ours and after watching Matt’s video had an “aha” moment
You can work out the minimum energy required to dry clothes by weighing them before and after. If you remove 1 kg of water then the minimum energy required to turn that into vapour is 2.27 MJ or 0.63 kWh. Could you try the experiment?
Best wishes
M
thanks will look into it
These are especially good in areas like Canada where the energy to heat the air that you are firing out of your house is not captured. When it's -20C outside and you run a conventional tumble dryer it sucks in hundreds of cubic feet of -20C air and fires out that same volume of heated air out in to the world.
Having it ventless no longer has that problem, and any inefficiency that is loat as heat will actually stay inside your house adding to the h3at budget slightly.
That's likely even better savings than the difference between the tumble and HP dryer direct from plug energy usage.
Is there no tech available to do heat recovery in cold climates. Have seen it on houses but never on a small scale. Wonder if its not worth it - no ROI on it
@JonathanTracey You can buy heat recovery units for the dryer vent, but they generally have condensation issues and it dumps large amounts of heat in to where ever your dryer is located which will spread out eventually but usually those will be in a laundry room or closet so less useful. The air replaced will still be coming in effectively randomly so it will make wherever that comes in colder.
The ventless heat pump style dryer completely eliminates the issue while also saving energy on the actual running of the dryer, so it's a win all around.
Yes, we had a condenser dryer before the Heat Pump one, that captured the water in a large container that you just poured down the sink when it was full. The Heat Pump version operates exactly the same way, although it does have an option to plumber in to get rid of the water we just use it in the condensing roll.
Matt Risinger had a video on this about a week ago, attempting to calculate the cost of heating or cooling the outside air that the dryer sucked into the house. But he had ChatGPT run the numbers and I don't trust AI entirely.
We replaced our old vented machine with a Hotpoint heat pump dryer this time last year. AO had a deal on their eBay shop which meant it cost just under £500.
Like you said, they really are miracle machines, and cost next to nothing to run (6p per hour according to yhe smart meter).
yeah i kinda understand how it works but it’s still amazing, now does anyone make a heat pump dishwasher
I have a white knight gas dryer also, I’m in the Uk. Sadly they shut down during lockdown and no longer make the gas version.
they seem to be a pretty rare thing in the UK, you’re only the second person I’ve heard of has a gas dryer. They seem a little more common in the US, but I didn’t even know that they were available here.
When our last tumble dryer died we replaced it with a heat pump dryer. While the drying programs are considerably longer they are often finished in a much shorter time. And when it's on, it uses next to nothing electricity wise. And that's according to our smat meter
yes we often start a cycle and it says 2hrs but seems to finish in about 90 mins
i have one, but it's going to take a long time to pay the different costings between ASHP Tumble & normal tumble
You’re gonna have to give me a bit more than that
I never looked into it enough so didn't realise they used so little energy and I've had a heat pump dryer for around 3 years. I don't have battery storage but do have an EV tariff so 90% of the time run it overnight whilst the car is charging. Very nice
sounds like a good plan, yeah not only doesn’t it use much it does not spike the power requirements, never seems to draw more than about 500w
Changed to a Hover heat pump dryer a few years ago same price as a vented dryer we've saved a Lot (one of my boys only likes tumble dried even in summer). We've solar and battery run it at night on our EV tarrif.
yeah to be honest during the summer when we have excess power we use it to dry clothes. now we have a good export rate probably wont do that
We have a heat pump tumble drier. Very little energy used as you say and is much kinder on the clothes too.
yes we have noticed it’s kinder to clothes, especially towels for reasons i don’t really understand
How much was the battery set up to store the electricity?
quite a bit, but has paid for itself at least 1.5 times
I think our washing and drying is our biggest energy use as we run holiday rental properties and do 20+ loads some weeks. I have some shelly plugs so will see what we are using. Sadly this time of year our AIO battery is getting sucked dry by our ASHP so we often find we are drying using peak rate energy.
i would imagine in your case a HP dryer would be more economical with that many loads.
I have one and yes they are amazing a must have for the winter month like you I have home battery storage so can use it anytime. I still sometimes use air drying with a de-humidifier but to beat the tumble dryer cost you've got to 2 or 3 loads
we still hang ours out when we can, just for winter days it’s a god send
We have a heat pump tumble dryer and the saving over a conventional vented dryer is very significant even though it lives in the garage where the air is obviously cooler.
One thing I should mention is that there are vented dryers that use a lower temperature element but run for longer because the manufacturers realised that it's much cheaper to run a motor than the element. Drying your laundry with lukewarm air for 90 minutes is cheaper than with hot air for 30 minutes, if you see what I mean ?
Our old dryer (a condenser) used to pull about 2kw when running, this one never goes over 500w. So even if it takes twice as long its still using half the power
HP dryer for us in the last 6 months. One of the main drivers being lower power usage keeps the 'whole house' within the power envelope of the battery inverter. I guess you'd call it 'peak demand smoothing'
Yep, that was one of the main drivers When we bought it. At the time we only had a 3.6 kW inverter.
We have a gas dryer which has a 5kW heater. At the current rates of about 5p per kW it will modulate but probably around 20p to do a load. The difference is that a load takes between 30 to 60 mins for a full load of cotton. My wife doesn't want to wait three hours for a full load of cotton.
Ironically, I could do with an older inefficient tumble dryer for when Octopus Agile goes negative rates, nobody wants efficient appliances at those times. :)
I didn’t know you was in the UK, I’ve heard from a number of people of the US that have them but you’re the first I’ve ever heard of that one. Is it new or you had it a long time?
@@JonathanTracey Had it a looooong time. White Knight but they went into administration quite a while ago. Quite niche without a doubt and when it was looking like needing replacing, I had strict guidane from "Domestic Site Management" that anything that took longer than an hour was unacceptable. :D I did find a supplier of gas tumble dryers for about £1400.
I do plan on an additional heat pump dryer at some point though, I'd like a Miele one too to go witht the dishwasher we have. You can buy a lot of electric for the price of them though. I think I worked out that the dish washer will break even when i'm just about dead.
Yes the main reasons we ponied up for the Miele was it’s 10 year warranty, we have a relative who has had a washing machine from them and it’s nearing 30 years old
We have a vented tumble dryer and on a full load it certainly does not take 5Kwh to dry a full load that seems excessive its probably about half that estimate.
Does the Heat pump tumble drier need to be plumbed in the waste pipe ?
I think every load is going to be different depending on how damp the clothes are. Google‘s estimate seemed excessive but I’m sure it’s just an average across different load types and different sizes of tumble dryer. Yes, it can be plugged into the waist water, but it also has a condenser drawer so that the water tank can be pulled out and emptied if needed.
That is two or three, have change you water heater to heat pump, the difference is amazing.
Also if you install it intelligently you can use it as a whole house ventilator and attic dryer.
No need here for attic drying and we have AC for the summer but agree it’s a nice solution
@JonathanTracey if you want to save energy you can reverse the heat pump vents and get FREE summer AC!
We have separate AC for the two days a year we need it
So glad I got a heat pump TD too. It’s only a small 7kg Beko but it works a treat.
been hearing a lot of good things about the Beko dryer
@ it was a matter of needs must. It is in a closet on the landing and we didn’t want to block access to other random bits we have in there (we don’t have a garage for miscellaneous items)
Your Heat Pump dryer wouldn’t work in your garage. It needs slightly warmer temperature of air because the heat pump is so small. If you put it out in a garage, it would take forever to dry clothes.
Very happy with my Hotpoint HP dryer. I only pay 7p per unit and have 18kwh of battery so it is incredibly cheap to use. It is worth noting how these low prices for power stack up electric car gives access to lower overnight tariffs, then house batteries pass this saving to the house. HP then make even more sense.
yeah, once you go down that energy saving route the more things that you have, electric cars, heat pumps, energy saving appliances, they all get cheaper to run.
You save £1 cos of the heat pump dryer (1kWh vs 5kWh) and a further 17p cos of the home battery (24.5p/kWh vs 8.5p/kWh), so the savings from the dryer are about 6x the savings from the storage (for drying clothes).
From an efficiency perspective, the dryer uses a fifth of the electricity to dry the load, but the battery actually loses more due to charge/discharge losses.
This means we should be promoting heat pump dryers 5-6x more than we promote home batteries?
yes, but as you point out they’re not mutually exclusive, having the battery to store the cheap rate electricity makes running the Heat Pump tumble dryer even more efficient. As I was just talking to somebody about having home batteries I think is the key to energy savings. If I was doing this all over again, I would start with the batteries.
@JonathanTracey It's more efficient without any battery, as you lose energy when filling and draining the battery from the grid, also from inverter standby losses. It definitely uses more than 1kWh from the grid to provide 1kWh through a battery (if charged from the grid)
@Sam-mb1yk yes it does but I don't have a realiable way to measure it, but I doubt its anything significant
I've had a heat pump ventless GE Profile combo washer/dryer for a year and I love it. It uses about 1.5 kWh per load (that includes washing too). Some loads use more and some use less. Don't forget that it isn't pushing out 200 CFM of conditioned air. I'm paying about $0.04 per kWh.
does the HP work on the wash cycle or is that still heated by electric element?
The wash cycle is not heated. I only use unheated tap water for the wash cycle.
Okay, is that a cold wash or are you taking hot water from your cylinder?
I use a Stielbol-Eltron Tempra 15 Plus instant hot water unit so no tank. But it isn't used since I do a cold water wash. My detergent doesn't need hot water.
we generally was at 30- 40 degrees depending on items but we love crisp white bedding and that’s gonna need a high temp wash. not sure we could get the same results in a cold wash
Am I right in thinking that an extra saving with a HP dryer is that all the heat stays in the house whereas a vented dryer sends it all outside.
yes it recycles heat, so you do t have to heat the air as much, a vented dryer has a heating element and a fan to blow their over the cloths, when it is full of moisture the air is vented and that heat is lost, so it started again heating new air.
Thanks JT, I'd heard of heat pump tumble dryers, but hadn't made that connection.
Next stop the internet!
Glad it was helpful
I had a heat pump tumble dryer, they will dry your clothes if you can wait all day. If you need stuff drying quickly forget it. Got rid of it and gone back to normal condenser. Not noticed much difference in electric costs to be honest. I would never consider a heat pump in any capacity again.
each unto their own, when we need stuff dried quickly we just put a few things in it, and its drys them as fast as a condensing dryer
I'm unsure whether heat pump tumble dryers are available in the US. I'll check. THey certainly look like an excellent solution.
However I think you should point out that life is always a compromise, and the disadvantage of these dryer types in the load capacity. Not unreasonably they have to fit a load of extra technology within a defined size box. So yes they are brilliant, BUT, if you have a house with seven people, three of whom are under 6, then it simply might not be big enough. Just another thing to consider. Unfortunately it seems there are no free lunches in physics.
the dryers load size is the same as a vented one, so no real loss having a HP one. the compromise is that it takes longer per load to dry clothes
We got one initially to cut down on moisture as our old non hp one didn't externally vent due to kitchen layout in our previous house.
We've since moved, and we have our washer and hp tumbler in our garage, sectioned of and as thermally insulated as possible.
It with pv + battery it's fairly energy efficient, but still cold in that garage utility, so not as good as if it was in a warm house
how does it preform i. the garage, we were told not to put it outside as it would not work
@JonathanTracey It work, but being essentially a hp it's more efficient in ambient/ warmer temperatures.
Typically, with a full load, it's an avg of 1.5kwh's of energy.
This is with it running for about 4 hours 30 minutes at 300-350w.
We did have one night where it was so cold it would run as scheduled, but we have some futher insulation and hole plugging to do.
Alway run via the cheap Go period, to spare the battery, which is being charged at that point anyway
Yeah, I suppose it needs heating in the air so if it’s in a cold room, it will be sufficient. Did you end up pencil in the whole room? It was in or just around the tumble dryer?
@JonathanTracey it was about a 3rd of the garage space. What we haven't had time to do is insulate around the slightly raised floor edges, and it had a legacy loft style hatch (really stupid and pointless) which either needs sealing or insulating too.
Oh, and the side door is wooden. While decent, needs some seals around door frame.
So room for improvements lol.
However, only had it freeze up once so far this year, where as last year, same time it had done so 5-6 times.
So a 'definite' improvement, excusing the fact I never recorded the temperatures on each freezing event.
Seems like an awful lot of effort effort, was there just no way you could have it in the house?
Commenting from the US. Heat pumps are just now becoming a thing here in the States. This year I installed three mini split solar powered heat pumps and we absolutely completely love them. Their energy efficient and they work very, very well. Interestingly our dryer (I believe I heard it referred to as a tumble dryer) is on its last legs and going out. I did some research and decided to go with a heat pump dryer. Here in the US we have much larger washer and dryer units then do most Europeans. I found a new LG heat pump dryer that has a large capacity and is very energy efficient. I think the biggest thing that trips up US consumers on heat pump dryers is the length of time to do the drying. US dryers that use conventional electric heating elements or gas, dry very quickly compared to the heat pump dryer. On a small load our old dryer when it was new could dry a load in half an hour. After doing all the research I understand the differences in the two dryers but I'm looking forward to a couple of things for our household. 1. Energy savings, most US electric tumble dryers use between 3000 to 4000 watts on high to do the drying. 2. Vented dryers as stated do pull air out of your home. I'm very much looking forward to the energy savings for our electric bill and the fact that I can seal up the outside vent for our dryer. I'm completely okay with the driving time taking much longer as I have adjusted my thinking and tolerance for long laundry loads when we got our first front load washer 20 years ago. 20 years ago front load washers were rare in the US and now they are very common and outsell top load units. I think the same will happen with heat pump dryers eventually. I'm getting my delivery for my new heat pump dryer this Saturday and I am pretty excited to see how everything works.
Sounds interesting, I assume you need a larger capacity plug for a dryer in the US, as 120v probably would take forever to dry clothes. Do you need to have a 240v hookup installed? our HP dryer takes about 10-20% longer than a vented dryer to reach the same level of dryness, but uses 1/5th of the power.
@JonathanTracey it depends on what unit you get. We have combo units which that have just come out in the past year or so that are a washer and dryer all in one and they are new to us but some of them use 120 volts and everything I've read say they do take longer. The LG unit I'm getting uses 208 volts and uses a standard electric dryer plug here in the US. Most US households come with a dryer outlet which is rated for 220 volts next to a vent hole in our laundry room. Everything I've read about the LG unit says that it does a spectacular job. In case you're curious the model I'm getting is the following "LG dlhc5502"
Oh that’s interesting. I didn’t realise they came a standard in the house. I know a little bit about how US electrical systems work and that you can get 220 V by effectively using 2×110 V circuits together. But I didn’t realise that was standardised for dryers. I do recall a few years ago a friend of mine had a gas powered dryer in his house which I always thought sounded like a fire waiting to happen.
@JonathanTracey I'm impressed that you knew that about the US electrical system but not surprised, you probably know more about our electrical system than most Americans 🤣.
As far as it being standard, yes you are correct we do 240 by combining 2-120s and the 240 volt dryer hookup is ubiquitous in American homes. I would say the ratio of electric to gas if I had to guess is probably 80% electric and 20% gas. I'm with you about the gas dryer, our electric dryers cause enough fires as it is, I couldn't imagine a gas dryer being safer. That is one of the reasons that I getting a heat pump dryer so we can seal up our outdoor vent which is the cause of most dryer fires in the United States as it gets clogged and most people don't bother with ever cleaning them out.
I have pretty high hopes for the heat pump dryer and I think I'm going into it with an understanding of the differences between it and a typical electric dryer.
Since we have had x front load washers for over 20 years I'm pretty accustomed to longer laundry times and they really don't bother me anymore.
I tend to schedule laundry at night to wash and put things in the dryer in the morning.
One distinct advantage of the heat pump dryer is that I would feel safe running that overnight or if I had to leave the house much as I do our washing machine or dishwasher.
That is something I would never, ever do with our traditional electric dryer as I would be terrified of a fire even though I do clean it and do maintenance on it.
I’ve spent a lot of time in the US over the last few years of my career, and always found the differences in the electrical systems fascinating. I didn’t realise it was a common thing to install a 220 plug but I suppose if clothes dryers are common then it makes sense.
Our tumble dryer is in the garage. I doubt it would work there very well, it's too cold. So we went with a vented one.
Yes I believe for a HP one you need about min 10 degree heat in the room, otherwise it won’t work
@ That’s because heat pumps don’t work in the winter 😉
Don’t poke the 🧸
That's very good. I have a heat pump washer-dryer and the last time it ran, it used about 0.9kWh in total. It does take about 1.8kW (not kWh) while it's running and after a time it starts cycling which I suspect yours doesn't do; it looks like yours may modulate and get greater efficiency again as a result. If mine is running during the cosy period - that handy afternoon slot of cheap energy I get - that's going to cost me about 10p. If it's running during the most expensive period, that's around 30p. If it's running off my battery during the most expensive period, it's going to cost me around 13p after conversion losses. I don't use it for every load; I still have a washing line for when the weather is good for drying!
does it use the HP for the wash cycle as well or is that just heated with an element?
@@JonathanTracey I don't know. I have a feeling no because I think the heat pump is water-to-air for drying and it does mention heat pump specifically for the dryer function.
I’m trying to figure out how we would work in my head as an air to water Heat Pump, but it would need to be quite large so I think it’s probably only used as you say for the drying cycle
@@JonathanTracey I think it cools incoming water to heat the air and then expels the cooled water out of the wastepipe.
Cue the people overly obsessed with how long their laundry takes to dry. 🤣
I'm happy with my Samsung one, the only downside is bedclothes always get tied up in a knot. I think it's because the drum probably only spins one way, and not because it's a HPTD.
Will mine pay for itself? possibly not, but the ageing condensing one it replaced didn't always dry properly, and it was also from one of the brands (but not models) that had recalls for the fire risk. Something that is much less of a worry with a heat pump tumble dryer - no heating element to overheat.
i never considers the fire risk, it’s just not a thing with heat pumps is it? it does take a little longer to dry clothes but at 1/5 of the price i will put up with that
@@JonathanTracey It's very unlikely, but there are still factors that make it a fire risk, like a spark from faulty electronics igniting the lint. However, that's not unique to it being a heat pump tumble dryer. Having the heat pump eliminates the heating element - arguably the biggest fire risk.
Electrical faults could cause a fire no matter what type of heating system you use, but as you say eliminating the heating element stops 90% of the tumble dryer fires that happen when Lind gets into contact with the heating element
I said to a friend of mine, “Well, I don’t stand there watching the clothes dry” So if it takes a bit longer, so what?😂
Would love to see a video about you buying the electric at night and storing it in the batteries. Seriously considering it but do the numbers/usage add up?
Sure let me see what I can pull together
With a vented tumble dryer, you also have to add the energy loss for the internal air that you pump outside, this is not insignificant.
yeah they are not a great design in any way
That looked like a really small load of washing.I have a tumble dryer which hardly gets used, dehumidifier for my clothes im afraid. Takes a while to dry but my clothes thank me for it, they go through enough stress being washed.
Was 3 towels plus some sports kit, we find by not filling it to the max things dry better
Thank you: I think it's your *third* heat pump if you have a fridge?
it’s actually our 5th, fridge and freezer and my EV has. a heat pump heating system, but if you tell people you have 5 heat pumps they look at you strange :-)
Which dryer would you recommend that would be best for a house with an autistic cat. We have been having problems with the cat sleeping in the washing machine in the past and would like to get one whixh would help prevent the cat from jumping inside with the door open. I used to work on a popular website and any searches put into the website were recorded and analysed for trends, sorting, etc and one of the most common ones was "how do i stop my cat from falling down the toilet"
my dogs tell me cats prefer to be dried with a towel
To stop the cat from getting in there@@JonathanTracey
Just a heat pump dryer that would prevent a slightly autistic from jumping in there
i’m have no experience of cats, autistic or not
Most tumble dryers have doors which can be closed to prevent cats getting in
Interesting how google suggests this video a day or so after I searched for information on the payback for heat pump tumble dryers!
We have a condensing tumble dryer, looking at our smart energy plug we typically use between 1-2kWh each time it’s on, with a few daily peaks over the year at 3kWh (which may have been two loads).
So man-maths, taking 1.5kWh average, use it every 3 days on average over the year (more in winter, less in summer), a 50% saving with heat pump tumble dryer would be 182.5kWh a year, or £27 a year at 15p unit rate (we almost always run it overnight).
There’s clearly a saving to be had but it’d take a 3-6 years to payback the additional cost depending on price premium. Interesting.
yep savings will differ depending on a few factors, we also factored in the warranty, our last condenser dryer lasted about 4.5!years, had a 3 year warranty. the HP dryer came with a 10 year warranty but was 2.5x the price
I firmly believe that as we have been upgrading our appliances over the last 10 years or so we have pretty much offset the EV we have. That includes changing every light in the house to LED (the living & dining room alone went from 300w down to 35w for the 2 rooms, heat pump dryer from an old D rated condenser, A+ to A+++ for the fridge, freezer, washing machine and dishwasher. Newer games consoles use less etc. 10 years ago we used around 9000kWh a year before an EV and oddly we still hover around that sort of range (+/- 500kWh a year) but include the 3000kWh for the car as well. I think the lighting has made such a difference, can't remember the exact figures but if every old bulb was on, it was around 1.1-1.2kW of lighting alone! Now down to under 200w. Energy efficiency makes a huge difference, just look at the national grid, 2012 it was generated 318TWh but last year it was 250TWh with 1.3 million EV's and how ever many thousand heat pumps!
Sounds like your heading in the right direction, non led lighting is such a power draw, we got rid of our last halogen light a couple of years back, now they draw so little power it’s not worth monitoring
All very well but hp tumble driers take longer to dry the washing so that means more wear and tear on your clothes, towels, what have you. Plus tye machines are more complex with additional failure potential and may need additional servicing as the heat exchanger can become clogged with lint necessitating an engineers visit, amounting to the equivalent saving of perhaps another year’s energy. I’m still not sold on this.
they do take longer but only about 20% longer and we have not noticed anything wearing out because of its use. no issues with lint clogging by anything, if anything the filter system is far superior to a vented dryer and easier to clean. there are no servicing needs for our dryer with regard to the heat pump, infact the manufacturer is so confident in their appliance it comes with a 10 year warranty
Yep. If you can afford them, HP tumble dryers are worth the extra cost. When our old condenser drier died after only 3 years (drum bearing failure) we got a Samsung HP model. We would have liked to have got a Miele to match our Miele W/M but it was just too much. The only real snag is that you can't install HP dryers in an unheated space (e.g. garage, out house etc) because they won't run with ambient temps below 10-12c. This meant I had to find space in our kitchen & loose some storage space. Program times are longer but they are much kinder to the clothes with a lower less intense heat. Much quieter as well.
As well as the normal drum door air filter it's a bit of a faff having to clean the damp lint from evaporator coil with a supplied brush every so often. Our machine is built in so cabinet kick plates have to be removed to get access to the low down access door. Whilst ours can be plumbed in for auto waste water removal we still use the manual empty water container. All in all it's a good machine. Hopefully it will last longer than our last one 🤞
before his one an average dryer lasted us about 5 years, was happy to pay a bit more as it came with a 20 year warranty
Good timing - just thinking about getting one!
I really feel that’s a good investment, we found that it’s dramatically reduced our energy usage compared to our old condensing dryer
unless I'm missing something doesn't the heatpump tumble dryer remove heat from the air in the room that you've also paid to heat so that needs to be factored in too?
not exactly it takes air from the room not heat, it then extracts the heat from that air by compressing it. it then exhausts cooler dehumidified air. so yes you lose a tiny bit of heat but because of the COP you get 3-4x as much heat back. so net gain in heat
hi Jon, the Link for the shelly Plug in the description is incorrect, you linked the decibel meter instead of the shelly
thanks for the heads up, have corrected it and here is (hopefully) the right link amzn.to/49Ymlqj
Thanks for that. I will gently prod my wife towards choosing a HP tumble drier when ours shows signs of packing up or setting the house on fire. With regard to your domestic HP count do you not have one in your car?
Yes and in the fridge and freezer but I thought it sounded like i had a heat pump problem if I said I have 5 :-)
Interesting analysis though your battery storage skews the results in pence per load, i had a very quick scan at the Which site and a hest pump best buy used £46 and the best vented £128 so there is a £82 pa saving at their rste of use.
Unfortunately there is a £500 cost difference to deal with so to recover the outlay 6.25 years payback and most of the tumble dryers dont have a 5 year or better warranty though everyones circumstance is different, my wife is a tumble addict so i suspect my payback would be shorter though the machnes location in the extension is not kept at full house temperature so that may impact.
We will probably purchase the best heat pump dryer with a 5 yesr warranty and run it alongside our Bosch vented dryer as i dont throw away perfectly usable appliances until they are not economically repairable.
Worth noting your Miele are very efficient and do have long wsrranties.
That is why we chose the Miele it came with a 10 year warranty as standard and we can extend that out to 20 years if we choose. The repayment period is quite long but it has another benefit, especially when coupled with smaller residential solar systems. the standard install today seems to be about 3.6kw and a vented dryer can pull nearly 3kw on its own, so if your trying to use battery stored power you will end up drawing from the grid if you go over 3.6 total. A 500w dryer gives you a lot more head room to keep you under 3.6kw
My conservatory clothes line costs essentially zero
The residual humidity no issues, plants like it i guess.
all power to you, we use our conservatory as a living room, so hanging washing is a no go. in the summer we do hang clothes outside but definitely not in winter
Had one a year now, didnt want to spend the money on a Miele one though, coz it was over twice the price of our LG .😀
its been great.Takes a bit longer to dry than old one, but far cheaper to run, got it plumbed in, so no water containers to empty either.
we looked at the LG but what swung us was LG warranty was 5 years and the miele was 10
@@JonathanTracey plus, it matched your washing machine👍
The washing machine has lasted longer than our last three machines put together. It’s coming up on 10 years old and given us any problems
@@JonathanTracey they have always been quality machines👍
my uncle and aunt have a washer from them that’s over 30 years old. it’s had a few new parts over the years but still going strong and amazingly miele still have parts when it needs some TLC
Expensive products save energy but you have spent far more than average on the initial outlay to buy the item. So the return is not what you think it is. Breaking even or even losing money.
your making assumptions that are wrong. the solar and battery system has been in place for 15 years, as parts pay for themselves we have upgraded and expanded as we go. so we’re not losing money we are making money every day the sun shines
Another Q, sorry. Just got the survey results back and all is good and the original £8,000 quote from Octopus is all good so just £500 for me to pay. The only extra was planning needed at £330, did you need that as well? It seems a bit weird as it will be installed on the rear of my property and the nearest boundary left / right to where it will be is 3.5 meters.
Plus the Heat pump I guess is on the smaller side of them as it is a 4kw Daikin
no i didn’t need planning, the boundary isn’t an issue any more but could be for noise, if they think it will be over the limit. this could be down to many factors. your octopus team should be able to tell you why
@@JonathanTracey Yeah, they just got back to me, the nearest neighbouring window is 5.2 meters away from the edge of the heat pump. On that premise I can't see how the vast majority of people get away without planning. I suspect you'd struggle to hear it at that distance anyway, let alone through modern double glazed windows.
@@MrFish1968
Many meet the standards of 'permitted development' as required by 'MCS 020 standard' (do a search on that), this is worth a read, it is also being updated in December to reflect current rules.
Will take a read on that.
If anybody is thinking about a heat pump. Upsidedownfork you tuber is good as he had a heat pump installed, and is very transparent about the outcome. Also, Tim&Kats Green walk; Speak to the geek; urban plumbers, jonathan tracey; and Heat Geek series are good to get real life examples. Better than literature reviews. Too much of the heat pump debate is politically motivated and, hence, becomes toxic.
Thanks for the shout out, agree there is too much negativity
I just put my laundry out on the line. Dries for free, smells great, and has zero CO2 emissions.
I was on Caribbean cruise a few years ago and got talking to an American, and he was moaning how their energy prices had risen and his dryer was on every day and it was costing so much!
I said to him, why don't you put your washing out on the line? He looked at me in disgust and said to me " because we don't live on a trailer park"
Did we laugh😂😂
@@jezzaandrews1940
I think you hit the nail there, are there not some 'neighbourhood' schemes where self appointed wardens tell them when they can or can't hang out washing or cut grass etc.
Some strange people out there.
yep it does here as well, for about 8 months of the year, the rest of the time it just stays wet or freezes ::-)
i think there are a lot of people in the uk with that attitude. we put ours out in the spring and up till about october, but from the. it’s too wet/cd for it to dry most days
in the USA they have HOA,s that seem things like washing or unkept lawns devalue others property’s and can fine you very large amounts for not complying g with their rules
Nothwithstanding the truth that HP tumble dryers are more efficient, your maths were off as you priced the vented dryer at normal rates but the HP dryer on cheap night rates. To be fair you should calculate the vented cost as half of 5.34kwh x 8.5p or 22.7p.
Let me go check, thx for the heads up
Second? Someone forgets their fridge/freezer.
yes but they are a given, no bonus points there :-)
Honestly guys. Heat pump tumble dryers have been around for about 10 years. How is this news?
its not news i was interested how much power it used compared to a regular dryer, so decided to test it.
Called it 😅
you did 😂
What’s next heat pump hot tubs 😂
i’m looking :-) or a dishwasher :-)
Your sums are not comparing Apples to Apples
You care to elaborate?
Why was this “Shocking” ? As per the title? Please don’t perpetuate this click bait nonsense by indulging the algorithm. Good video. Didn’t need the click bait.
Thanks for the feedback, I use a tool that tests different titles and thumbnails to see which resonate more with different people. The more click bait type titles draw about 25% more watches than non click bait titles. I’m afraid that’s the algorithm driven world we live in. Sorry you didn’t get the normal ones, hope it didn’t detract from the video too much.
Sadly we all have to indulge the algorithm. Good video by the way!👍
@moulinrouche thanks 🙏
I was shocked, Karen.
Shocked to my core.