mClassic Review: Switch Visuals Boosted Using An HDMI Processor? + Retro Games Tested
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Can the mClassic deliver a substantial boost to Switch game visuals? As an external HDMI processor, the technology certainly works in reducing aliasing in most titles, while enhancing colour and adding contextual sharpness. But while games running at 1080p trigger a subtle upgrade, older 480p and 720p content tends to fare much better - as shown with Dreamcast and PS2.
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It's weird that you tested this with Switch games where resolution or aliasing isn't really a big issue and you would barely notice an improvement with this device instead of lower res games like XC2, TW3, Wolfenstein, or Doom where the improvement would probably be a lot more noticeable (or maybe not). That would have been far more useful than the examples chosen for this video.
I agree
I have to admit I was slightly disappointed in this review. On a big screen TV, especially a 4k screen, I won't plug my switch into it without it. Animal crossing is much better with the mclassic, as well as Zelda BOTW has quite a massive impact. I got it for 60 bucks early access which was well worth it
I tested mine with my wiiu, I could see the difference but I believe it's much better to you use a pc monitor for 1440p.
I disagree. Those games already have antialiasing heaped on, And the mClassic might not detect any stairstepping. I think they weren't looking at "hi-res vs low-res" i think they tested games without anti-aliasing, whereas the games you mentioned already have tons of AA.
The new pokemon has a TON of aliasing
My takeaway on this: Impressive results on 6th gen or lower, negligible difference on anything newer.
I really wish they advertised it more as a retro console improvement, but I assume it wouldn't sell as well, so they have to advertise it for newer consoles.
That's what I am looking for the retro console review like ps1 and ps2
*mC L A S S I C*
@@SoCalGamers1 works really well on ps2
And it brings Switch graphics into this decade.
MrMario2011 I use 1 mcable and 2 mclassics, some say I've made the PS3 look 8th gen 👀
Difference can be spotted only while zoomed in and in slow motion at specific situations. Not sure if its worth its 100 dollar.
Tuncay D it’s not
Not sure if it's worth 1 dollar.
It's definitely a personal preference. After I saw it working in person I understood. None of the RUclips reviews of the mClassic that I've seen have done this device justice. For me, it makes Switch games look far better on a 4K TV. I can't go back to the raw input. It looks cheap by comparison.
exactly my feelings.
This pretty much sums up every Digital Foundry analysis video these days.
I really wish that all switch games had been tested at 720p output with upscaling to 1440p as well. This is the best result and where the mClassic shines. There are a few comparisons on RUclips and on the company's own channel that show great results, much better than done here.
Those examples were probably cherry picked by Marseille to show of the mClassic though. I really love my mClassic for use on my Wii. The 4:3/16:9 toggle is my favorite part, and i love the processing it does to games like Majora's Mask running on the Wii's Virtual console.
This would be interesting to see utilized on Wii games running through the WiiU
You'd probably still need to set the Wii U to a 480p output though, otherwise you'd have the same issue that the Switch was having where the games are rendered at a lower resolution than the video signal the console itself is outputting.
There would also be the annoyance that most Wii games support anamorphic widescreen (which I'm not even sure can be disabled on the Wii U), yet this device forces 4:3 for its "retro" 480p input.
From my understanding this does its most optimal job on lower, raw resolutions. The Wii U already upscales Wii games. You'd be running an upscale through an upscale, essentially defeating the purpose of the device.
It might be better using this on the Wii with an HDMI dongle instead of the Wii U, though there will be screen flicker from the Wii to HDMI dongle. With the mCable it produces good enough results and I expect the mClassic will do one better with its Retro mode.
@@nintendomaniac64 I've messed with it a lot, and yes, you have to set the Wii U to 480p or it doesn't really do much. N64 VC games benefit massively from it.
It does improve a little bit, games like Skyward Sword look rougher without any processing. I have a unit running from an HDMI switch with a Wii U/Switch/PS3. I also like the results with the PS3 with most games running at 720p they look less harsh on my 4K TV.
You should've tested this with switch games that use TAA. The sharpening filter might have helped there.
Sure, like doom and Wolfstein. A sharper boost would help lot.
I agree
It would help quite a lot, this was not a great review. If they ever go on sale I would buy one, I got mine for 70 after tax and shipping so it was very worth it
@@ratoproduction I still can't believe those games don't use a sharpening filter on the switch version. It would make it so much better. Or maybe they do but it's really subtle, so the games still look blurry like you'd get with TAA.
I'd say Skyrim but with Switch' draw distances maybe not.
The selection of Switch tedt games is really strange. Surely the games people would be interested in using this on would be Doom, Wolfenstein 2, base Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Witcher 3, games with lower resolutions and/or blurriness problems. Not games like Smash, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Odyssey etc
I totally agree with you, DF dropped the ball here.
3:30
Mirror's Edge really is a timeless looking game
@Mike UK for real. the game is beautiful, but watching that scene made me feel like I was gonna puke.
I will agree that the game does still look pretty good, but they bathe the screen in whiteand it just makes my eyes hurt after looking at it for a while, I had to turn down the brightness and turn up the contrast to solve the issue on the PC version
That's a 4k version of it not the original 360 resolution
For real. Looks like a new title. When's the VR sequel coming out tho?
@@chrisfratz on Xbox I also had to change contrast and brightness
Why not Wii, Wii u, Ps3 and Xbox 360? Why not test them?
I was disappointed that they didn't do a Wii comparison using Wii U backwards compatibility at the very least.
The Wii U seems like the perfect use case for this adapter, it has both a majority of 720p titles, and many retro games to enjoy with it
Honestly this was not their best review. If you have a fairly large tv or 4k tv, and wanna play any nintendo console or older than this generation console, it makes a huge difference. I got it for around 70 with shipping on kickstarter, it was very worth it
I wanted to see a ps3 test. Many of its titles implemented quincnux aa which really reduced the image quality. Games like gta 4 and bayonetta are worth testing on this console using mclassic.
@@lizipancake I just got mine and try it with Zelda Skyward Sword running on my Wii U and for real I couldn't see the diference. Works best on the switch.
I have one of these. I consider it essential for switch. It REALLY helps image quality on a 4k tv even if its not a 4k image.
What are your favourite 3 switch games?
@@O1OO1O1 Pokeman Pokeman JR and Pokemon Sr
@@moisestamayo5809 edgy
@@kptoca Thanks dad 👨
Some unsolicited advice. You only need to purchase one mclassic and a HDMI switcher if you want to use it with multiple consoles. I have an 8 port HDMI switch by IO gear that works beautifully with this. If you have an OSSC, use the 5x mode on the 240p consoles and keep the Mclassic on passthru mode. The mclassic is great for Dreamcast, OG Xbox (Set to 720p max), Gamecube, Wii, Wii U (Set at 720p), PS3 (set at 720p), Xbox 360 (Set at 720p) and the Nintendo Switch. For DCHDMI owners, choose between VGA with the mclassic on retro mode, or the DCHDMI's 1080p mode with the Mclassic on passthru. Wiidual owners should turn on passthru mode when playing 240p virtual console games. Wii U owners have to change the resolution to 480p for the Virtual Wii to benefit from using the mclassic. For PS1 and PS2 owners, the OSSC/Frameister are better overall options. If you have a backwards compatible PS3, I think the mclassic gives you the best picture quality out of PS2 games. 1440p upscaling only activates on 1440p monitors. Your TV probably wont be able to take advantage of this. All in all its a neat device that I can recommend if you intend on using it with at least 3 consoles that you boot up even on a semi regular basis.
Yup when doing the math it shuold be 100 bucks spread across improving 3 to 7 consoles if you are talking value for money.
Thank you.
I was considering picking this up, and I know they recommend plugging it directly into the console...but was curious how this setup would work, as I wanted to do the same.
I got 2 of them when the kickstarter had the 2pack for cheaper. One I use with a Switch on my new 4ktv and the other for some older consoles on a 1080p tv (just have them output from my Switch). I guess I should bump my PS3 back to 720p, I noticed some improvement in AA at 1080p but the blacks were crushed, so I ended up switching it off for that since that was more annoying to me than aliasing. For playing Wii on the WiiU, setting the WiiU to 480p is a must for getting the most improvement since you need to bypass the WiiU's internal upscaling. I don't think I have played much WiiU games since getting it last fall, but guess I will keep the WiiU at 720p when not playing Wii games. Are there many/any WiiU games that actually render at 1080p vs 720p?
I have my Gamecube on my 4k tv via an Eon adapter, and tried connecting it and my Switch via a hdmi-switch, but the GC would lose display signal and flash off and on every 8-10 seconds or so, but the Eon/GCvideo adapter is finicky anyways since it works on this HDMI-switch but not my others so I am not surprised it didn't work. Going from 480p to 4k using my TV's internal upscaling isn't optimal but is still playable though I need to try out my GB Boy Player since that is the main reason that GC is on my main tv to begin with.
So I had to just use the mClassic on the Switch between the console and HDMI-switch. It was 3am and I was tired when I tried it the night I got the tv, but I am pretty sure my Samsung showed it as being a 1440p signal. I need to double check though as I have been mostly playing FF7r since getting the TV last week, so I haven't messed with the Switch much since then. Even so, the improvements at 1080p were worth it to me for the Switch. Someone in another comment says their Samsung does 1440p as well, so that makes me think I was right in what I saw, haha. I'll double check tonight either way.
I’m considering getting one to run on my retro consoles NES snes run on a retrotink with the snes having hd retrovision cables, n64 and gcn both run on eon products. The Wii and OG x box are plugged directly into the tv with component cables.
My plan is to attach at the end of my hdmi switch, so all the consoles running hdmi benefit. Will this work how I’m assuming? Will all the hdmi consoles benefit enough to justify the price?
@@campaug technically yes, but I personally wouldn't use it with anything that predates Dreamcast. I wouldn't use it for NES or SNES due to the systems being low res and 2D based.I've personally never tried N64 so give it a try to see if you like the image. For the Wii and OG Xbox, you'd need a component to hdmi switch. If I were you I would have one input for the retrotink consoles, and another input for everything that will be using the mclassic via an hdmi switch box.
It's crazy they didn't test switch at 720p on a 1440p monitor which is what works best for switch. It made a huge improvement on my monitor. I love it!
I think they just focus on the most general use case.
Yes! I hope they see this message and add a video with Switch locked at 720 with Mclassic. I really want them to test that. From what I've heard that will make Switch look really really good. But, now we'll never know.
He did mention it in the video right after 14:01. Upscaling from 720p to 1440p via PC monitor benefits
Why would you intentionally set your output resolution to 720p when it could be at 1080p and then upscaled from there? How could an image upscaled from 720p to 1440p look better then an image upscaled from 1080p to 1440p? You are just gimping the output resolution at the console level at that point and not letting the Switch hardware do as much work as it is capable of. Does the mClassic not upscale 1080p images? According to the chart at 3:58 it does. Am I misunderstanding something here?
@@Tenchi547 Output resolution set by the user does not affect the render resolution of the game, well I haven't heard of any where it does at least, so I could be wrong for some games. That said, take BOTW for example since it is mostly rendered at 900p while docked. If you set the Switch to 1080p output then the Switch upscales the rendered image to 1080p, whereas if you have the Switch set to 720p output, then that 900p image is downscaled/downsampled/supersampled (or whatever method they use to handle it) down to 720p. People prefer the mClassic or other device they use to handle upscaling rather than relying on the Switch's or their TV's scaling method. I have only had a 4k TV for a week, so I haven't tested my Switch other than a few Mario Kart races and have only had it upscale from 1080p to 1440p so far, but I plan to do some testing between 720p/1080p across a few games. However, I know that when using the mClassic for Wii games on the WiiU, setting the WiiU's output to 480p and letting the mClassic do the upscaling to 1080p gives a better picture than the WiiU upscaling to 1080p first (with or without using the mClassic for AA/sharpening/etc.). So I could see that translating to sub-1080p rendered games on the Switch.
At 1x zoom it really felt like there was no perceptible difference if I'm being honest.
@Mike UK exactly,in a place like youtube where 4k looks similar to 720p its hard to judge
I could see a noticable difference at 1x, however it was only a few of them. It depends so much on so many factors that I couldn't justify buying it. Perhaps on a Xbox 360/PS3 and anything lower it would he worth it cause of the low resolution
It just works best on things in the range of Dreamcast to PS3 and the stuff in between. Also early PS4 games like Bloodborn that done have a 4kmode get a nice boost from it.
@@wayn3h world of difference? Really? Don't you think you're overselling it just a tad there? ;)
@Mike UK That, and the device increases the output to 1440p. The video is in 1080p. I've used it on a native 1440p monitor and it was great! Especially for Smash bros since it's a native 1080p game.
I’ve had mine for a while and love it. It’s difficult to go back. However, it really is at its best at 1440p for real though. A monitor or screen with native/supported 1440p is a must.
Oh and yeah, and many Switch games benefit from setting the Switch to output 720p and not 1080p. Sounds ludicrous, but the Switch has strange upscaling to get to 1080p in most games; thus forcing 720p provides superb anti-aliasing and upscaling on the mClassic :)
@@piercebros Would love to see footage of the Switch 1440p upscaling in action, the DF video is only in 1080p (even in the downloads section on their site) so I can't decide for myself if the $130CAD is worth it or not. Never mind RUclips's garbage compression.
NanoDrive I’ll see what I can do mate!
That’s funny, because all setting the Switch to anything lower than 720p does is introduce unwanted oversharpening and halo effects.
@@nanodrive If you have a reasonably new TV that has upscaling support, it's not really worth it (however you need a mid-high tier model current generation or last gen: older devices upscaling introduce horrible input lag. But since last and this generation, that seems to be getting resolved, I barely notice any delay with the correct settings in my TV HOWEVER: I can not do anti aliasing, but I don't really care about that because at the distance I sit it's barely even noticable).
Love my mClassic, it isn't too obvious on some games but for many it really improves things. The 4:3 aspect ratio switch is also a real dream feature.
I bought one recently and have been using it on my switch on a 1080 monitor would you recommend keeping the switch at 1080 or change the settings to 720p
@@s3nchii736 Try 720
I'm no expert but I think if you leave it on 720 the Mclassic will upscale it to 1080, if on 1080 it will upscale to 1440 (2k)
@@luckyrockmore2796 It doesn't work that way. If it is plugged into a 1080p source it will go to 1080p. If it is plugged into a 1440p source, it will go to 1440p.
A new post from Digital Foundry! We are all truly blessed on this day.
If only this and the mCable weren't so expensive! I could see these being more normalized in the future though if they gradually get cheap.
I wouldnt say its that expensive also including you have to buy the hdmii cable seperate
The Ostrich lmao this dude
They're not cheap, that's for sure. I bought 2 on sale when it was kick-started and use an HDMI switch to run all my consoles through.
@The Ostrich said like a true pleb
@@69metersbelow25 It's $99 for basically a filter for your game that you'll barely notice when going over it with a fine tooth comb. Obviously that's not going to be worth it for most people. I mean sure it's cheap in the sense that many people could afford it, but if I'm paying $99 for something it better do a hell of a lot more than "it kind of anti aliases the picture if you zoom in really close to see it" otherwise I'm going to allocate my $99 of disposable income to something more worthwhile like some new games, an old console, a bass guitar, or any of the other myriad things I can get for $99. The problem with a lot of these "gamer accessories" like those framemeister upscalers, FPGA clones, mClassic, etc. is that it seems like theres no way for the people who make these to bring them to market at a price that allows them to profit AND is actually justified by the mediocre (but still nice depending on your situation) benefit to the end customer. The only reason people feel justified in paying these prices for these accessories is because of successful viral marketing done by RUclipsrs (and people on other sites, forums, etc.) such as this one, Metal Jesus, My Life in Gaming, etc.
Not attacking any of these people or making moral judgements, just an observation that's become clearer to me over the years.
I feel this processor would be great on PS3 titles, because they are often 720p with no AA and with post processing way less complex than Switch games. I would like to see games like Final Fantasy 13, Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Assassin's Creed 1 and Metal Gear Solid 4 tested
Can confirm...it works wonders for og xbox, 360 and ps3
@@123doomdoom 360 only needed 2 upscales, the ps3 needed 3 👀
I found that in regards to the switch games that run at 720p native see the biggest improvements with the mclassic and my 1440p monitor. Xenoblade chronicles 2 with a graphics mod that removes the games antialiasing while docked looks outstanding on my 720p monitor. Botw, Mario kart and smash Bros have slight improvements at 1080p but since 1080p doesn't scale well to 1440p I found that in most cases I'd leave the switches output at 720p
Just picked one of these up. Completely satisfied.
"More saturation is obvious"
..it looks the same
Welcome to DF. Where most "big differences" look the same unless your're zoomed in.
I was able to see it pretty clearly on iPhone.. his red outfit was more red and less orange.. I did have my brightness all the way up though
You can't really make out the difference well on a compressed youtube video. I use a mClassic myself and some Switch games like Zelda BotW and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 benefit a lot from it, thanks to their unique artstyle and generally lower resolution compared to PS4 & XB1. Although i agree with DF that it is best used on really low res games/consoles, especially from the PS2, Gamecube and Wii era. Games from that generation benefit the most, without a doubt. On newer systems you can only really make out the difference if you're seeing the raw and uncompressed video signal for yourself, and i can confirm that colors indeed look much better. A compressed youtube video doesn't give the mClassic justice.
@Mike UK
I can see the difference on my screen, if you can't probably on a shit screen with poor colour accuracy.
Only one I could see any difference in saturation was tony hawk and soul caliber
I bought my mClassic for about $70 during the crowd fundraiser and I couldn't be happier when using it on my Switch on full 3D games only. I watched several RUclips previews of the device, but none, including this review have done it justice. You honestly have to see it in person to truly appreciate how much the mClassic improves the visuals on Switch. Games like Breath of the Wild, MUA3 and Fire Emblem look so much better I would now struggle to enjoy playing them without the mClassic. Jaggies and shimmering are severely reduced and text and menu items look far more crisp on my 4K TV.
If you don't mind the price tag and want the absolute best image possible from your Switch or retro 3D consoles with an HDMI output, the mClassic is definitely worth buying.
Yeah it falls into that, you have to see it live to really get it.
These cables always seem too hit or miss to be worth the price.
Most 'improvements' seem to just be confirmation bias. "I just spent $100 so there MUST be a difference"
Mikey C No it’s not, there’s a big difference in many non AA games especially on Switch & GameCube, Dreamcast & PS2 titles
Unfortunately, that's the case with literally everything fucking ever so it's always a gamble.
Its only worth it to upscale 480p to 1080p/1440p. This would be using it on an n64. The switch is too close to the 1080p upscale so the difference is too subtle. On the n64 its very noticeable and very nice.
Amazing how much better Power Stone looks
If you think the before and after is the same, this product isn't aimed at you. It's actually a really neat way to improve the picture without modify our retro console.
Just stick to 5th and 6th gen consoles through HDMI adapters because they had noticable aliasing, 720p or under and low poly count producing clear geometric edges. Soul Calibur on 5th gen consoles though HDMI looks like an early 360/ps3 title.
Digital Foundry really love OLED TVs
I personally use QLED for better colors.
Once you get one you'll know why
I've been hearing they are really good for gaming for low latency and colours
LG OLED are very good for gaming!
@@payampajoohi166 once you get one you realize the burn in is real and that OLED comes with many downfalls. Whites turn yellow, images get burned into the screen.
Im not a huge fan of this device, but I do find for my specific use case which is playing Switch on a 32" 1440p PC monitor it does the job well. The monitor does not scale 1080p images very well, but the MCLASSIC kicks the Switch's output up to 1440p enabling the monitor to simply display a native resolution image. Switch graphics with this set up look so much better than on my TV or the Switch's built in display.
I've been using one of these on my Switch since it came out, Love it. It's one of those "You have to see it for yourself" type of things to see the difference. In a 1440P monitor Switch games look fantastic and I'm often reminded when reviewing something to turn off the toggle to make sure I'm seeing the image how most players will see it and not just those with this lil neat device.
Well worth the cost.
Do you need an HDMI 2.0 input on your monitor? I have a 1440p monitor with HDMi 1.4. Wondering if this will work
For me, this thing works good on Dreamcast 3D games and it works good on PS3 games because it’s games were 720p. The ringing on 2D and the rounding of square pixels I wasn’t a fan of.
Really surprised BoTW wasn't an example. I have an mClassic and a 1440 monitor. Paired together this can make BoTW look like it's being emulated on PC to a higher resolution. The mClassic is also one of those things you have to play with it on for a couple days and then turn it off to notice how much a benefit it is in some games.
And if you have a TV with an already solid upscale, this actually gives it a second or third pass of AA and sharpening depending on the set. And it looks damn good.
I didn’t pay that price for it! I bought it when they were funding it at $65 and I don’t regret it
Same! Worth it to me. Especially as someone who games on a monitor I can get a 1440p output.
It’s pretty good for old PS3 games. Definitely adds an impressive amount of detail to older games, Modern Warfare 3 and Uncharted 2 looked much sharper, adding finer detail to distant objects, it was especially noticeable when looking at signs and characters.
It actually made it pretty easy to see enemies in MW3, so it may be able to give you a tactical advantage in some games due to the sharper image. Though that’s debatable.
It did struggle with trees and foliage, but it’s very impressive that it was able to approximate details that also didn’t exist or were otherwise incredibly muted due to lower resolution textures.
As someone who uses a tv as my monitor for all my old gaming devices, it was a pretty good buy. Definitely helped my games look better.
I just bought one of these and omg it makes my ps1 and ps2 games look fantastic it’s not dark as hell anymore cause of this amazing thing. My ps4 also made cod WW2 look really damn good when I hooked it up into my ps4 I like this thing
Great review. Summed up my experience with the device entirely. Excellent for 480p content and perhaps even 480i scaled to 480p(PS2,GC,XBOX,WII).
Would it also help the Wii U ?
@@SoUtHMeMpHis yes, a lot.
@@SoUtHMeMpHis Yeah it should also help the WiiU. I would try the different resolution options and see which one outputs the best image when used with the Mclassic.
@@soratheultima 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Honestly, if it makes even a slight improvement to Tears of the Kingdom, it’s worth every penny.
4:25 My Samsung 4KTV does upscale to 1440p from the mClassic so its depends on your TV or Monitor
Yep, recently got a Q70r and my Switch ran at 1440p.
edit: I should add that I tested it at 3am and was tired, and I thought it showed it as being 1440p. But I have only had the tv a week and haven't used my Switch since then since I have been playing other games (FF7r) since. I'll test it out tonight to be sure that what I saw was correct and I didn't just imagine that since it is what I expected it to be.
edit 2: just checked, TV shows 1440p/60 in the info bar on my Switch's menu (set to 1080p output). I didn't have time to fire up a game but I'll assume I was correct and not delirious the last time I thought it showed at 1440p.
Just curious, I have a Samsung Q9fn65 (2018 model) and it does freesync with the Xbox one x. I just bought the MClassic and I have a switch as well. Would my tv upscale to 1440p as well with the switch at 720p?
i have an MClassic and you just don't get the full effect when displaying in 1080p, you really need a monitor or tv that supports the MClassic in 1440p to get the full effect.
as for the switch i have found if you force the switch into 720p mode and use the MClassic on a monitor or tv that outputs 1440p that's when you see it at it's best, you should give it a try.
So play switch on my 4K TV and downgrade switch into 720?
@@charlieb308 yes although you aren't really downgrading it as all the switch does is upscale it anyway.
Would've loved seeing this tested with Fire Emblem: Three Houses. The obvious lack of AA and, let's say, uneven graphical presentation should presumably be helped considerably by this device.
That game is a big reason why I bought the mClassic. It makes FE look soooo much better on my 4K TV. In fact, I severely dislike playing the game docked without the mClassic. The raw jaggies and shimmering is just too much.
It makes a big difference in Fire Emblem. Undocked Switch amd was shocked at the jagged edges I wasn’t seeing on the TV
@@Thrashman138 what native resolution did you have your Switch on? 720P or 1080P? They said leaving it at 720P will see a significant boost in quality while 1080P is not much of an upgrade
Mclassic is a brilliant way to get better performance on 7th gen consoles (XB360 & PS3). By setting the console to 720p internally with mclassic connected you get the performance of 720p mode, but the quality as if you were to set it to 1080p. Really good in games like Call Of Duty Black Ops (PS3) where the FPS can be quite spotty in 1080p, but more solid in 720p!
What's really interesting is that I always kept my PS3/Xbox 360 at 720p because I knew games were not rendering higher that that for the most part, and some games like Capcom's MT framework titles (RE5, Dragon's Dogma, etc) had screen tearing issues when set to upscale beyond 720p. This basically makes it so those consoles will now look a lot better. Same with Persona 4 Golden on Vita TV. It's really a cool thing to see that our tech is getting so advanced that we are retroactively improving older consoles with external processors and the like.
I use it with my jailbroken ps3 - love it. On 4k tv the difference is massive especially on ps1/ ps2 games.
Yeah i think that is the thing that is missing from the review. On a 32 inch TV or monitor you cant see the gains. But my switch on my 60 inch 4k tv I cant imagine playing games without this on it now. Those minor things show up big on a big tv.
@@braddl9442 Thank for this suggestion. I have a Switch dock and 4k 60 inch tv in the living room. And I was really wondering if the mclassic would make the image better and especially edges and staircase effects. Those are things I really notice on a the 4k 60 inch tv. I also often sit close to the TV so it is even more appearant. So my question is: Do you think it is worth it and how is the upgrade on a 4k 60 inch tv? Do you have an example game you can describe the upgrades on? Thank you in advance, if you would like to respond!
What are your settngs on the ps3?
720p?
"When it works the results are impressive..."
Couldn't have said it better. And I think that does apply to all mCable revisions. I've been using a 1st gen chipset version of the mCable for a while now, mostly on my PSTV, PS3 and nowadays Switch and in cases it does work I've been really impressed. Persona 4 Golden looked on my (albeit 1080p) TV like a modern HD remaster for PS4, Xenoblade 2 on my Switch (setting the console to 720p) looks like it does belong on a PS4 (didn't think a Switch game could impress me with that cable). On the downside games with dynamic resolution scaling or ones that run in a lower than native resolution (like some Vita games) look sadly worse than without the upscaling cable.
I might point out that for the Switch it is ALWAYS the optimal solution to set the console to 720p otherwise you won't get the full effect and a less clear image with the cable.
There is a tech comparison of Xenoblade 2 by the mCable developer here on youtube btw. The title is: "Xenoblade Chronicles 2 in 1440p on Nintendo Switch (mClassic)"
In the comments the developer points out that 720p is optimal to get the results.
A lot of Switch games have a native resolution higher than 720p, many 900p and many 1080p native games; and you're better off keeping it at 1080p for those. But you're definitely right that a lot are 720p and you absolutely should set it to that for those games, I do that regularly if the game I'm playing is 720p native.
Imagine one of these in 5 years time, could be so good
I am a big Dreamcast fan. I strated playing with the AV (RCA) cable. Then I got a S-Video one. After this I got the VGA Box. And six months ago I got an Akura Box to play it in HDMI. Following that progress, MClassic would be the next thing for me. But I´m from Brazil and I don´t have much money to spend with it in 2020. Maybe in the future. Who knows...
Any Wii U users out there? How does this look going from 720p to 1440p on a capable PC monitor? Thanks so much for covering this DF!
Really interesting stuff! I'm very impressed with the Switch improvements. But when it comes to 16-bit consoles I'll gladly keep my jaggy pixels!
I got it on the early bid backer deal. Was worth it. I think if you like games on the Dreamcast, PS2 ,Xbox, GameCube, Wii, PS3, Xbox360, Standard PS4, Switch, even the 100 dollar ask can be worth it.
I wished I had the money to back it at the time. I do hope to pick it up soon just for the improvements to FE and Xenoblade 2.
Really? I tried it on my 360 and Wii U but couln't see any difference. I don't know if I am doing something wrong. However, I could see the difference right away on my Switch.
@@ratedzeus783 you see differences on switch but not older consoles? Lol what are you doing wrong
@@saucyx4 I figure it out. The Xbox 360 and Wii U were set to 1080p so I had to lower their resolution to 720p and it worked. They should give proper instruction because is not plug and play.
@@ratedzeus783 wait whaaaat? Doesn’t work when set to 1080p? That’s weird
I use my mClassic with my Wii since the Wii does not output proper aspect ratio info, so everything is output in 4:3, and my old HDTV didn't allow me to alter the aspect ratio of sources plugged into the only low latency HDMI input on the TV, so my TV stretched everything to a 16:9 ratio. It was a Visio 4k TV that was produced in 2014 model P502ui-B1E. I bought that TV because it was the lowest latency 4k HDTV I could find and I wanted to be able to play Smash Bros for Wii U without input lag and that TV did the job perfectly.
I finally decided to pull the trigger on one of these for my hdmi splitter for my switch, Wii U and GameCube.
@DigitalFoundry please next time show us footage of xbox 360 and playstation 3 as well. As they both had a lot of 720p games.
I have both mclassic and mcable. Mcable provides significant image enhancement in 480p to 1080p games instead of mclassic 480p to 1440p. Unfortunately, my tv 4k Bravia Xe93 does not support 1440p. So I stay playing on 1080p tv because I am waiting for a new device from marseille which will ensure image improvement in 2160p because on a regular hdmi cable the image even in this chapter looks like shit. I hope this device will appear this year because new consoles will come out soon and I'm not going to look at the tragic picture on ordinary hdmi.
The difference is colossal on each of these chapters 480 to 1440p. Equipment definitely worth the price. Once you see this picture, you don't go back to the normal HDMI cable.
That giant M on the end was almost as stupid as Nintendo putting their charge port on the bottom of the console.
A lot of money for little to no improvement imo.
it's quite cheap for those who own $100000 home theatre
The fact the difference is even visible on a RUclips streming video with compressed resolution just says that the improvements will be really visible in real life.
Wouldn't say that. I have a 1st gen mCable and Xenoblade 2 looks on my 1080p TV like a native 1080p game that does belong on the PS4. I also don't understand why DF used the 1080p mode on the Switch even though even Marseille (the company responsible for the mClassic) even highly recommend using the 720p mode for the Switch to get the best upscaling. The even state that in their Xenoblade 2 1440p comparison here on youtube ("Xenoblade Chronicles 2 in 1440p on Nintendo Switch (mClassic)").
Listen to the comments, this was not a great review, I would never play animal crossing or BOTW on a tv without it
When we barely (or not at all) see the difference in zoomed in 5 fps game clips how can anyone see the difference sitting a few meters from the TV playing a 30-60 fps game? Doesnt really add up does it.
I have found this dongle to be a noticeable improvement to visuals on the Switch and totally worth it. Also, playing retro games on the Switch while setting it to 480p or 720; makes games look good. This also shows that a power pro dock to further boost visuals and possible performance for the Switch is possible; if Nintendo would only set the effort to do so. I would definitely pay $150-$200 for a dock that would substantially boost Switch performance. Nintendo must know there is a market for that; since things like this dongle are on the market.
Would love to see the effects on last generation, 720p is probably a good sweet spot for this device.
Yeah it's pretty good for retro or games that is 480p or 720p.
Indeed, 720p consoles is a good sweet spot.
But the mClassic really shine with the Nintendo switch, many games on that game console doesn't have any kind of anti aliasing.
720p is gross
@@Kougeru not at all
It made a lot of my PS3 games look way better. But what they dont really explain is that the switch you can see the effects if you have a BIG tv. I have a 60 inch and the Mcable makes my switch games not look like last gen.
I use this with my Switch on a 1440p monitor and it's sick. I can see the difference no problem. I think a lot of channels didn't test this correctly
I've had one, bought it in kick-starter. Sold it. I saw almost no difference at all. I had a non compatible 4K LG TV. So I could only output 1080p.
A range of additional options for the older machines might be useful to have ; I'd be interested what it does to something like N64 games.
It sounds like a stop-gap until the rear horizon of emulation catches up. It's interesting, if you're into that kind of thing, but meh, I'll wait
Would be interesting to see what this would do with N64 480P via EON converter.
It's really impressive considering you are still using the basic composite signal. Won't ever look as good as the HDMI mod but better than you'd expect. Be warned the original mcable they made will not work work with the EON 64. You will need the mclassic dongle shown here specifically to use both in series.
Don't waste money on an eon. It's just a shitty console specific expensive retrotink.
Nintendrew did it.
the n64 still renders at 240p, and feeding the mclassic with an upscaled resolution isn't ideal. also the rad2x is cheaper and, although doesn't support svideo, it supports rgb modded n64 and it's just 50 bucks
@@TheA_Gamer554 Right on Thanks for the info :-)
I honestly only use my Mclassic for upscalling retro games. Looks super nice with GameCube 480p signals. Such a niche case but it works. This product is definitely not worth the $100. But the way my tv handled 480p was by shrinking the image size to about 2/3 of the screen. So getting 1080p to my tv really helped make retro games look better in the long run.
Really great video DF. I've been looking into getting this Cable for the Switch, it defo makes the games look Sharper all round but is it worth getting or just waiting too see what the next Switch system is gonna be like first, if one is coming that is lol.
Rare poor review. I've had mine for several months now. I got it on sale for about $80. Mario Odyssey and Mario Kart get noticeable improvements. And you really should've tried it with The Witcher 3 on Switch and compared it with the in-game AA option.
I agree that Digital Foundry should have used more games that would take advantage of some better Anti Aliasing (such as the Switch port of Witcher 3), but at the end of the day it's an $80 adding some AA. It's not bad, just a bit pricey for what it does.
They didnt set the Switch to 720p in the dynamic resolution games. Very strange to me. Also why didnt they test Breath of the Wild. It looks bloody great with Mclassic. You can see each blade of grass and details you couldn't see before off in the distance. It's very impressive with that game. Same with Xenoblade Chronicles 2. They need to do a more in depth look as this disappointed me as I own a Mclassic and have tried it on multiple games and systems, and it really does work.
It works across multiple systems so that's why I believe the price is pretty good. I havnt seen any other Upscalers do the things the Mclassic can do either. So definitely worth getting to improve all your old games consoles visuals and modern games consoles visuals also.
I bought one back in December for my Switched hooked to 75 inch 4k tv. It makes quite a difference. Nintendo should release a Pro dock using similar technology but tuned precisely for the Switch.
I have one of these. GameCube and Wii games look great with it. The anti-aliasing effect does its best on 480p content.
download an adblock browser ...the amount of commercials on youtube had gotten rediculous
Did you set the Switch output to 720p? I heard that can sometimes give better results.
Yeah on games that do the dynamic stuff up to 900p In my experiance its better to just set it to 720p and let the Mclassic up it to 1080p. But games that run native 1080p its better to let them just do their thing.
I don't know why anyone would want extra saturation over what the developer of the game intended.
Yeah it does really make my eyes dry...
Many of older games were made for CTR TV/Monitors. And yes, it had it's impact on saturation etc on LCD. Also, many older games tend to use washed out colors because reasons. And it just hurts eyes to play them because of bland, monochrome look.
I thought modern 4K TVs already did smart upscaling?
They do, and the processing is much better (especially on my 55” G1)
This device is best with sixth gen consoles. I use mClassic with my Gamecube (with Kaico HDMI adapter) and Xbox Classic (with an internal HDMI mod) and the results are amazing. Works great with Wii games too
I tried mine with my Eon plug-n-play adapter on the Gamecube and the screen flashes every 8 or 10 seconds, but that thing is finicky anyway and only works with 1 of my 3 HDMI switches. I like it with the Switch, subtle but noticeable improvements though I haven't played games like XC2 or FE:3 Houses yet that would benefit more. The reason I bought them (got a 2pack during the crowdfunding campaign) was for Wii games on the Wii U, and setting the Wii U to 480p and using this is better than just the Wii U set at 1080p (so internal up-scaling). It has made Skyward Sword more playable on modern TVs, though I'd still buy a HD remaster on the Switch in a heartbeat. Still need to mess with my PS3 settings because I noticed some crushing of blacks/dark colors that was more annoying than the benefit of the AA+sharpening. Maybe dropping it back to 720p and adjusting the RGB range will help.
You'd think this would be best for 720p era consoles like the PS3, XB 360, and Wii-U yet they were not showcased. I don't really see a point to using it with a Switch or Xbox One as the effect it too subtle, and the pre-HDMI consoles require *expensive* additional hardware for use.
I don't see the difference. sounds like "snake oil" to me.
there is a difference, but it is inconsistent and not a big one. Nothing amazing to waste your money on a dongle that introduces it's own quirks.
@Mike UK usually for retro systems people are looking to get a crisp image without additional filters, not introduce new ones.
Solid snake oil :-P
RUclips video compression man.
I can see the sharpened edges on smash brothers but.. the saturation it looks identical
Wouldn't mind pairing this with a GCHD.
It works great with this set up, but only for full 3D games.
That actually is one of the best use cases.
Well. I am not convinced at all by this expensive piece of equipment.
Thank you for reviewing it.
Had no idea this existed. It's brilliant and can be improved on.
I have this and i really like it.
Im curious, have you ever used this thing on an emulated PlayStation classic.
It's like increase the sharpening on your TV, only that your pay for it.
Ewww, I hate jaggies.
Thank you for letting us know.
Its really not. Sharpening on tv increases the jaggies big time. For games, u are best having sharpening as low as possible without blurring writing.
This thing is great! I bought it for gamecube and wii games. My setup is a backwards compatible wii with a Wii2HDMI adapter and this. Makes the picture gorgeous! Along with that, I recently soft modded my wii with USB Loader and ripped copies of all of my games. Using the settings in that program, I now have a crisp widescreen setup for all of my games. Night and day difference between all of that and just standard composite cables.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feeds their switch into the Xbox one. Cool to see it still works like this.
Last time I was this early I still used DVI for my monitor
Forgot is DVI better than HDMI?
Would this work with my Sega Genesis classic and the raspberrypie
yes i use it in my sega mini
black friday 2021Amazon had the Mclassic for $79.99. At that price point it's absolutely worth it. I noticed an immediate difference on my switch even on a 1080p TV. Colors were better, jaggies were almost gone, it really does look like a Switch Pro.
In my experience, this is best w/480p or 720p sources. Preferably w/native HDMI connections end-to-end.
Isn't that basically the switch?
PS3, 360, Wii U, and Switch titles. Adam Koralik has some good videos testing out the mCable (which uses a similar ASIC). I personally use it on an OG Xbox through a Pound HDMI adapter.
Try it again with a 3rd Party high performance hdmi kabel again, not the Nintendo included cable and u have a better experience on the Switch
Thank you for your good work!!
Amazing!*
Hello I'm from the UK too and got the mClassic myself. Only this time I didn't use Retrotink or any of those RCA to HDMI adapters as I've only used the RetroPie for my Raspberry Pi to show the actual native picture. I've also tried the mClassic on my GameCube and Wii but I was shocked that it doesn't work on Sonic Mega Collection nor any of the GameCube games
480p60 to 1440p60 could potentially make a huge difference, as long as they don't over-sharpen. I think the ideal in that case would be to attempt to look as sharp as native 720p, and use the increase to 1440p to minimize aliasing, to make everything smoother, not sharper than 720p since you are working with 480p information anyway.
720p30 to 4k30 could be a massive improvement too, this time aiming for 1080p sharpness and taking advantage of the 4k output to eliminate aliasing without losing visual information.
A lot of people commenting here need to get their eyes checked or something. Sure, in a lot of instances this thing does next to nothing, but in some of those Dreamcast and PS2 comparisons it's pretty damn pronounced. Like that Shadow of the Colossus looks like you're comparing a PSP game to a PS2 game or something.
I honestly don't think the people who said that came that far into the video.
That being said this is mostly good for old consoles, clearly. While doing some on the Switch for an example it's next to not worth it considering that footage was with 2x zoom.
The difference is there, but the question remains, is it worth that difference on Switch?
Id love to have a 4k switch but prob another 20 years away at nintendos pace.
Shit 1080 switch would be nice. No body is doing 4k right yet anyway though.
@@Mud9 don't forget 60fps.. Anything less that 60 fps would be crininal
Even a "Pro" dock that has near 0 lag upscaling to 4k would be great.
It seems to me that in Mclassic works better on 720p content. So switching the Switch to 720p should have it upscale to 1440p. So using that same assumption, scaling up any old content to 720p and then using the mclassic should get you 1440p out of stuff.
I wish they showed off what it could do to mid-to-late ps3/360 games like crysis 2, red dead redemption or killzone 3. I remember the aliasing being horrid, especially in rdr
“Dreamcast titles usually didn’t have any anti aliasing at all”
Wut? Wasn’t the Dreamcast known for actually having AA on a large number of tittles?
That sounds like a debate to talk about. Very controversial. Which is right?
No, the Dreamcast did not have AA. Neither did the PS2, Xbox, or GameCube for that matter. What made a big difference at the time was that the Dreamcast was the first console to output a native 480p signal for almost all games, which was 4x the resolution of previous consoles.
You're thinking of the PS4 Pro, it's easy to get them confused.
How does it look like with Xenoblade 2?
Xenoblade 2 is 720p, with the output set at 720p should look pretty good.
Xenoblade 2 already uses a sharpening filter alongside TAA, so using this would make things worse.
It fixed most of that games sins.
@@TexelGuy No its known for how bad the game looks for its blurry character models. This dongle fixes that game a by a lot.
Got this when Nintendo announced the switch oled when we were all waiting for a switch pro. Looks great on a 1440p monitor!
Great video as always from DF! Tho can you guys do another video testing this with games like Doom, Wolfenstein, and Witcher 3 on Switch?
I see a video with this mclassic used in the witcher 3...Made a amazing upgrade in image!
hmmm i wonder if it could help my wii, its running 480p component into a rgb to hdmi converter. would love a little tweak in clarity for that system
Might help you there. Then again is it worth the money if you play allot on your Wii.
@@Mr_Battlefield yeah i use the wii a lot, play all my cube games through it as well. i may look into it, the wii is so blurry on a 1080p panel i run it in 4.3 ratio as well feel its better suited to the wii's output.
I use it through a Mayflash HDMI adapter and games look really good.
@@jedimaster12100 i use a hdmi adapter already, it only converts the signal to hdmi i would like to upscale it as well.
It does. I can confirm this. Also the wiiU if you have one.
You hit a really important point here: Most 4K TVs and many 4K monitors cannot output 144p. They have a 1080p setting and a 4K setting, nothing in between. I figured all my 4K displays would be capable of outputting 1440p, but it wasn't until I messed around with the mClassic for a while that I found out the hard way that this wasn't the case.
I use the mClassic exclusively on 4K displays, so it only smooths out the 1080p image of my Switch and keeps the resolution. Even though it doesn't upscale, the difference is quite noticeable. Games where this really shines include Luigi's Mansion 3, Link's Awakening, and The Tourist. In particular, The Tourist has ZERO onboard anti-aliasing, so the mClassic makes it look much cleaner.
I think you may have left out HDR (forgive me if you didn't). The mClassic does not pass through HDR functionality. For this reason, I don't bother using the mClassic with my PS4 Pro (unless I'm playing on an HDR-incapable display).
Great feature on this product!
Just to add on to this, I recently got a Samsung QLED (the Q70r) and if I am to believe the info bar on my tv, it shows the Switch as outputting 1440p/60. So for those in the market that are deciding between TVs, its another thing to consider if you have a mClassic for 720p/1080p devices. I haven't done much A/B testing since I've only had the TV for a week and FF7r has taken up my gaming time since then, but Mario Kart looked great on the TV at "1440p" (the only Switch game I have tested so far). However, ya, even on my 1080p tv's it was a noticeable improvement and I haven't even played games like XC2 or FE:3 Houses yet where people say it helps the most.
Thanks for the tip about checking the resolution! I'm noticing the improvement after using my monitor at 1440p
What would have been cool is if the charging port also allowed you to connect to a PC and adjust settings. For example, I'd like the ability to turn off the colour enhancements. Colour is part of a game's artistic design. While some games subjectively benefit, others that were perfect to begin with are negatively affected.
It would also be nice to be able to turn off enhancements but still force an aspect ratio (like 4:3). Devices like the OSSC don't allow you to select the output aspect ratio and some monitors/TVs don't allow you to force an aspect ratio, so having a low latency device to correct it would be really handy.
$100 for the cable and an extra $1000 for a microscope to spot the difference.
sometimes i wonder why a respectable channel like DF wastes their time promoting garbage such as this hdmi scaler.
I thought it was a pretty impressive upgrade for GameCube/Dreamcast.. I don’t have them anymore but I would absolutely buy for playing through all of the Zelda games on GameCube
Maybe because its new gaming oriented hardware and people will be interested in their opinion of such things. "Promoting" lol
Not worth it for everyone, but for those wanting to push their Switch further for personal enjoyment or content creation, or to clean-up PS2/GCN/Xbox era games it's an awesome option.
I purchased mclassic through the crowdfunding campaign for 69 euros and in my opinion it is worth this price. With Fire Emblem Three Houses it shows better resolution and AA, the same with TLOZ Link's Awakening.
Some games show few improvements like Tokyo Mirage Sessions FE Encore but all the games I have for Switch show some improvements.