Really surprised by the reviews of this game. I have been really impressed with the gameplay and am anxious for more content. Still appreciate the insights and felt like most of the critics were well thought out even if they did not bother me in the same way.
Agree with Chris on this one! I have so much fun playing this one and trying to work out the puzzle of researching the animals of the same continent while I'm there, but then also being able to publish animals of other categories is really fun! Beautiful game that will get more plays here! Solo game worked well, too!
This is why I enjoy The Dice Tower multi reviewer format the most. Differing views presented respectfully with a little fun thrown in for good measure. I’m probably at a 7 to 7.5 for Encyclopedia. Could have been fantastic so it’s a little bit of a missed opportunity but still a solid game IMO. Thx for the review guys
Glad I didn't watch too many reviews before buying it because I really enjoy this game. The solo version is great too. And those 2 "long" actions really aren't that long at all. It takes longer to figure out beforehand how to get the right combination of coins and tokens needed to pull them off. I'm with Chris 100%. Love the multiple reviewers format though. Excellent 👍🏼
Sadly enough, Holy Grail Games announced today that they have to cease activity as they went bankrupt... One of the main reasons being the shipping company having kept stocks of games like Encyclopedia KS undelivered for months, hence HGG missed the Black Friday and Christmas 2022 period sales... Hopefully some other company will repurchase their assets and catalogue and future releases (Copan Dying City, Tiles of the Arabian Nights...)
Is that really fair? It certainly might give other people a chance to buy the game from the 'new' company, but those that helped bring it into existence, will in all likeliness not get a copy.
In my opinion It is better to do several little publications than one large one, but only because you get a seal for it. I really liked this game. I gave it a 9. It jumped straight into my top 10 after playing it once.
I think either can be a viable strategy depending on what you're going for/what cards come up. The randomness ensures it isn't as formulaic as 'this strategy always wins'
I knew this would be a Sunday DT review (typically more negative-leaning). During my first play I thought "the Dice Tower is going to roast this". But I'm with Chris on this one. It's a really interesting and fun (albeit clunky) game! There's just something unique about it that keeps me coming back. It's a fantastic two-player and solo game, but I would imagine at 3-4 the turns would be agonizingly long. Also, the expansion material should have been included in the base game, mainly for the card variability it offers.
I do like the game and lean towards Chris on this. I don’t mind the mathy nature of the expedition action and once you understand it, the publication action isn’t that bad. I do agree that it is difficult to “dig” through the deck. Probably to encourage more publications. Ark Nova has a similar problem, but you aren’t as confined to what you’re building towards. One thing I love is getting a strong engine going. Combo a bunch of scholars with certain actions is fun and satisfying. It’s an 8 for me. I need to try it with the expansion.
I definitely agree with Tom on this one. I really wanted to like this game, so I was quite disappointed. I really don't like having to add up so much (money, tokens) to my dice to get to the number I need for an action. Dice go to up to 6, but sometimes you need an action with at least 20, so that makes it really mathy trying to figure that all out. And yes the last 2 actions are just not very intuitive. And like some also mentioned in this review, if the right cards don't come up there's not much you can do about it. So I'm selling my copy...
I enjoyed this game, but I understand the criticism. The game could have been more streamlined, but at the end of the day, it was quite enjoyable. P.S. I’d give a 7-7.5, but I can see it eventually getting higher.
I don't agree with the dice criticism. For two of the spaces, the pip value doesn't matter and for the animal space it has a minimal impact that I have found to be barely a consideration. Higher values are somewhat more likely to be taken, but colour matters for sure. I really love this game and gave it a 9. The tightness of the animal market and how things come out dictates strategy. I have won the game by repeatedly publishing with lower value dice to score end game collection bonuses and by collecting for a larger groups for one large publish action. I have definitely enjoyed this optimization puzzle of a game! Rex judgement: Excellent!
The facts are not lying: what you are saying is not right. A die with a value 6 is always better than the one with a 1, because there is no action on the board that gives you a better benefit with a lower than a higher value. That means that it can be very useful to pick a die with a 6 from somebody else, but why should I do that with a 1? And if it was difficult to get those expeditions tokens than you are right with saying that the color is important, but all these rounds it depends on the dice that were coming from the bag and the experts and animal cards. And you can get those tokens enough in the game. And it also had nothing to do with strategy, because I have no idea what is coming the next turn. That means that it is a tactical game that creates a lot of AP and with a dice system that suggested that you have think very hard about the choices: "Shall I take that yellow 6 and give her 3 points?". Come on: in a 200+ point-game that isn't a reasonable choice.
Sadly I’m still waiting on my kickstarter copy of the game. HGG has really left some North American backers hanging. I appreciate the range of review scores. It’ll be useful to see who I match up with when I hopefully do play the game :)
I'd give the game an 8 as well. I've only ever played it at 2 players. The set collection feels much better for this mid weight game than in Ark Nova. The animal tightness seems the point - you build your own sets. There is a mini expansion that does make the game a bit better with mythic creatures and and good experts.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Just hoping the set collection stuff gets resolved in Ark Nova with the expansion and I'll be extremely happy with it. As it is - yah 8 is about right for it too.
Oh im surprised by the review. This is our favorite game of 2022/2023 and everybody we teached it to loved it. We hope there will be more stuff out for the game as we love it. It went to the Top of our Top games and left Ark Nova behind it. I totally disagree with Tom on this one. This game plays so smoothly and fast and the downtime is so low. This will be on Top for a long time im sure.
The number is definitely the most valuable part of a review. Everyone agrees with this. Even you, my dear reader. Sincerely, The President of the Homo Ludens Club
I love this game but I've also only played it solo so far. It's a very crunchy game solo against their AI and I've enjoyed every play of it. Maybe someday I'll be able to play against other people.
Just out of curiosity can we start getting another chapter marker to jump straight to scores? I didn’t need it this time since I listened to the whole review, but sometimes (due to time) I like to skip forward to people’s scores and hear their quick summaries. Thanks for considering!
No, this isn't going to happen, sorry. I already think people put too much faith in a number. You should listen to our thoughts WITH the score. Sure, you can scroll to just the number if you want, but I'm not going to make it easy for you. :)
@@thedicetower that’s fine I’ll fast forward when I need to. Btw I don’t watch for the number (don’t really care) but I like the short summaries at the end when I don’t have a lot of time.
@thedicetower I agree with this thinking. Numbers mean different things to different people. Some people think 5s are average. Others think 7 is. Some people think 10s represent the best games out there. Others think 10s mean perfection and so will never use them. And on, and on. It's a decent barometer to show whether a game is good, mediocre, poor, whatever, but as you say, your comments are far more valuable
Not a great or bad game I am more concern about HGG. Not able to deliver KS in t8me, lack of info, and NO RESPECT for backers This project was paid by Rallyman Dirt backers
It’s definitely not a game for everyone but it’s been a big hit for my wife and I, especially at 2 players. For me it’s a solid 8-8.5 at 2 players and probably closer to 7 at 3/4 players
Great discussion. Nailed so many of my thoughts on the head... I want to fix this game...I even have documentation to fix this game because it has such potential! Publisher never got back to me though...one expansion could REALLY ELEVATE this game. It requires elevation right now to me though.
Still waiting to get this in the table. I have it since November. Great to see such different opinions. But I have to agree, the cardboard boxes are trash. And I think the board is too big, around 75% of the size would have been ok, and still everything else could fit.
I’m glad Yis at least tried to get through with decent arguments. Most of the clunkyness comes from graphic design imo, it seems clean but it’s abysmal in practice. Had a great time in a 3p game. So much tinkering for a light weight game:3 my main negative is that you can’t strategize (new round - reset), would be nice to have some insight as to what’s coming (expansion plz?;).
It’s sad that just a day after this review comes out it’s followed by Holy Grail’s announcement gthat they have declared bankruptcy and are ceasing operations immediately. It’s an amazing game.
No, most of the time 3 or 4. But there is also a difference speaking about the more classic ones and the more multiplayer solitaire ones that comes out these days.
HGG is closing shop, so no more content for this game unfortunately. Or maybe the publisher who buys back the licence will be able to make new content?
I'm so glad someone mentioned the boats on the board. I felt the exact same thing. This game was also a 5 for me and I agree exactly with what Tom said.
I've not played it, but based on what I know of it now, it sounds like I'm close to Tom's thoughts. The actions are so disparate in effect and complication that it sounds like they took ideas from 2 or more prototypes and mashed them together and this game emerged.
Its an interesting game, a brain burner because of the unintuitive set collection. I also wished the player colours didn't match the cards, it was confusing and some ofvthe graphic design could have helped the unintuitive elements.
These guys putting down a game I was looking forward to and haven't played yet ticks me off. Also I ALWAYS disagree with Chris and now he LIKES it? I dunno WHAT to think except I better get my copy played soon.
The game feels very numbery, trying to work out what cubes i can buy, the costs of things is hard to remember and multiple resources all doing similar things which hurts my head. I feel like tom. But I know lots of people who love this game.
The game is a 7 for me. I like it, but don't love it. The expansion is a must for me, legendary cards with abilities and event cards which they can be positive or negative effects. I prefer not to use the negative cards
The dice "stealing" really doesn't matter. If you "steal" dice every turn, then the other players MUST "steal" yours as well as every die must be used every round. It really doesn't matter at all, just use the best die (based on color/number) for the current action. I'm not a euro fan at all (the rest of my game group enjoys them) and especially dislike set collection as a mechanism, but I disliked this one more than most of the recently released euros (and we end up playing just about all of them).
Also, it's the same "issue" in Troyes/Black Angel - but perhaps he doesn't like those either. I remember needing to flip one of my dice in BA in order to complete a mission, but then another player took it - and you cannot flip the dice you "steal" so I could not use one of his dice to do the same.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen I haven't played BA, but Troyes is one of my favorites. I've played Encyclopedia 3 times and I agree with the general thought that the dice "stealing" in this game is inconsequential. The similarity of being able to take another player's dice with Troyes ends there. In Troyes, your dice pool varies based upon the number of citizens you have. The ability to take more than 1 dice, with each one being more expensive if from another player, leads to more tension in the game and has greater effect. There is also the ability to pass early hoping to collect more money and/or deny your opponent the money. Tom's way to change how this mechanic works in Encyclopedia would streamline Encyclopedia but if implemented with Troyes, would destroy the soul of Troyes.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen Sorry, but that conclusion is absolutely not right. In Troyes you can win with less dice than your opponent for example and the dices with a lower value can be very useful to kick someone out of a row to have a die more in the next round. In this game there is no place on the board that gives a 1 a better effort than a 6! Better said: there are 2 place that otherwise a 6 is absolutely more useful than a lower value. And another very important thing: if you take a die in Troyes from someone else, you have to paid more if it's your second or third one of the group. And that mathematic Delta by paying money that you loose and the other one gets is very well balanced. In Encyclopedia you can get 3 points in a 200+ points game: that's not really a reasonable choice. Also the character cards are very important to make that you can win or lose the game.
Oh my god we actually synched up! Well Tom and Wendy and I do! I think I gave it a six but on further thoughts yeah probably should have been 5..... This game has a bunch of issues with rules, the dice, the publication action and how the different sets mean nothing in the game. And my token boxes split also and it made selling my copy painful as it devalued the game. I like Toms idea for the dice much better! And Chris how forgiving are you with that rating, there's more than a few rough edges??! 😂
@@TheBrokenMeeple It does! In my 4th game, I decided to try to get the largest sets for end game scoring. I went for low scoring ones but tons of them and lost the game against 3(!) other players - two of whom had never played. I got tons of points at the end but I'd lost out on the larger points for researching and publishing because I focused on matching continent (blue) and food or something. It wasn't enough to make back all the points other people had collected in game by researching and publishing fewer larger scoring. Granted 3 of us scored closely together but my husband won with 50 more points than me. I have beaten him comfortably in other games of Encyclopedia. Maybe this holds true if you collect sets of the larger scoring research and publication symbols (habitat I think?), but that may not be possible depending on cards and that's why it's tricky to become an expert in something and the end game scoring rewards you for it. TL;DR: the symbols collected definitely mattered a great deal in our 4 player game.
50 points is nothing in a game where the score counter goes over 300-400. But the main issue with the generic sets is that each game is literally "pick one or two sets and a colour and spam it". Preferably a low and a high one. Each one functions the same other than its score value.
Great video, LOVE having multiple opinions. Specific to this game: before the end of Mike's overview, I was certain there is no way on Earth I'd waste my time even trying this game. LOL Great job everyone, keep up the good work!
I didn't like this game. Sold it after 3 plays didn't change my mind. It felt unnecessarily complicated. Should have held onto it a little longer in hindsight had I known the company was going out of business.
I totally disagree with you. A 6 is always better in this game than a 1 and you need those higher numbers especially for the 2 more difficult actions lower on the board.
@@hansharleman590 Not always. Unless you can/want to use a token to change the colour of a die, then expedition actions, taking an animal from the matching continent, and possibly even publication actions (haven't played for a while but think that's correct) are not possible unless you use the correct coloured die. Furthermore, you get a bonus free expert for using a matching colour die. In ALL of those instances, there is incentive to choose a lower die of the correct colour than a 6 of the wrong one. Besides, you can use any die to get 5 coins from the bank.
@@roseability86YES ALWAYS! Because there is no place on the board that gives you a higher benefit when you put there a die of a lower value. And otherwise there are 4 places where a 6 gives more and the other 2 doesn´t matter, but if I take your die you don´t have the opportunity to do the other 4 options. So the conclusion is: a 6 is always better than a 1! I take your 6 and go to the embassy and get 3 expeditions tokens: colour problem solved! And the bonuses that you get if someone else takes your die is also not so interesting if you were thinking at first sight. 3 Points in a game with more than 200 points is not something you have to think about very hard. The only real interesting thing in this game is your track, but that's it. Conclusion: 99 out of 100 in a round everyone is first using the dice with a higer value for the actions 4, 5 and 6 and those with a lower value for the actions 1, 2 and 3. Alex of Talking Shelf Space did a great and interesting review of the game.
@@hansharleman590 thats not true. color matters so much. I sometime rather take a 1 than using my 6, bc the one is the color i need. So you dont need expedition tokens to change that. Coins for changing the value is much easier to get. That was the point Tom was so wrong when he said, the higher value the better. Thats false. We played this game like 25 times since we got it in November and there has been no game where we only drafted the high values. Also we never put the dice from lowest to highest on our board, you really should think what the other players may want or need. Im starting to feel that Tom, Mike and Wendy didnt play it right or didnt see the nuances in this game mechanism.
@@MarkBuschhausYes, ofcourse it´s the true otherwise I don´t write it down overhere. Color isn´t so much important as I wrote above, because it depends on the dice in play. I played this game with 3 and with 4 and the color issue wasn't there at all for the players. But it took both times more than 4 hours to end the game, because of the AP-created way they make it even as it looks an easy game. And Tom is not wrong saying the higher value is always better: I explain it above. None of the 6 actions on the board give your a better effort with a lower value die than a higer value die! It has absolutely not the class and depth like dice games as Troyes, Grand Austria Hotel, La Granja, Golem, Marco Polo and Coimbra for example.
It's not convoluted. It's a matching game. If it matches the animal you pick, you get to score. It's about optimizing the matches you have to score the most efficiently. Tom would get destroyed if he just kept taking dice from others. That's not a winning strategy. You aren't really stealing, you are paying others. I'm glad Mike mentioned the cardboard containers. Those were atrociously made. Just trash (or rather recycling). No insert either, so glad there is a good 3D model to print out there for one. At least Chris and Mike were the voice of reason.
I don't think Tom meant, "just take other's dice for the sake of taking it." Rather take the best die available because the benefit to the other player is small and eventually it gets neutered by someone else having to take your die anyways. Sure, you "pay" others but they will likely "pay" you back. It's a poor attempt at introducing player interaction resulting in unnecessary AP that could have been streamlined in a way he suggested. Also, let's not trivialize it to "it's a matching game." The publication action is not a simple match to the reference animal and be done: 1) The value of the die determines what types you can publish. 2) You don't need to match completely but if you can and decide to publish at least one type to remove a cube from a card then the other cubes are removed. 3) If you decide to publish the matching Type 0 (Continent), then that can be part of your set collection. However, if you "match" a cube in 2) but don't match Type 0, then you can't collect the card. Yes, there's matching. But I would say the scoring and collection part is convoluted. At least in my group, the publication action trips people the most on. On the positive side, you really only need to do it 1-2 times the entire game to do well. Actually, I would argue you should only do it 1-2 times.
My most disappointing game of 2022. Not bad but 6/10. Sold it after 3 plays at solo, 2, and 3 players. Definitely has some rough edges. Agree that the dice "stealing" mechanic is shoehorned player interaction resulting in unnecessary AP that has insignificant results; just take the best die available to you. Also, the game seems rather on rails. Yeah, you should only publish 1-2 times during the game; at least that's how I score 300+ points. Just glad I was able to get my KS money back while it was "hot."
Didn't back - but was raved about by some for the KS- really pays to hold off - any great games - have a good chance to return to KS - or if done right the retail version is just sweet and dandy - If the KS is the definitive edition and the retail is nerfed - then I hate your stupidity - so makes the game stupid - plus I can understand a new co=op discovery game etc - But how many of the above games do you need ?- given best played a lot by same players to understand meta .
This is why I love The Dice Tower - great discussion, with diverse views respectfully shared. Well done guys 👏
Love love love reviews with 3+ reviewers. Please keep more of these coming! 4-Square format is where it’s at.
I love this game. It was joint top with Ark Nova for me last year!
Hooray for Chris Yi!
I’m with Chris on this one. I really enjoyed it. But I do understand the other viewpoints. Love this format for that reason
I'm glad this review came later, because this game is one I really love
Really surprised by the reviews of this game. I have been really impressed with the gameplay and am anxious for more content. Still appreciate the insights and felt like most of the critics were well thought out even if they did not bother me in the same way.
Anxious for more content...? Dont think that's going to happen for a long time, if ever.
What a span on scores. This is why multiple reviewers is great.
Y'all have such a great dynamic. Very informative, respectful and just a very well put together review! Thank you!!
Agree with Chris on this one! I have so much fun playing this one and trying to work out the puzzle of researching the animals of the same continent while I'm there, but then also being able to publish animals of other categories is really fun! Beautiful game that will get more plays here! Solo game worked well, too!
Really happy to see Chris sticking to his guns. I'm still looking forward to giving this a go at 2p.
This is why I enjoy The Dice Tower multi reviewer format the most. Differing views presented respectfully with a little fun thrown in for good measure. I’m probably at a 7 to 7.5 for Encyclopedia. Could have been fantastic so it’s a little bit of a missed opportunity but still a solid game IMO. Thx for the review guys
Glad I didn't watch too many reviews before buying it because I really enjoy this game.
The solo version is great too.
And those 2 "long" actions really aren't that long at all.
It takes longer to figure out beforehand how to get the right combination of coins and tokens needed to pull them off.
I'm with Chris 100%.
Love the multiple reviewers format though. Excellent 👍🏼
I love this game - amazing at 2 - final scores 241 and 239 - insane balance.
Sadly enough, Holy Grail Games announced today that they have to cease activity as they went bankrupt... One of the main reasons being the shipping company having kept stocks of games like Encyclopedia KS undelivered for months, hence HGG missed the Black Friday and Christmas 2022 period sales... Hopefully some other company will repurchase their assets and catalogue and future releases (Copan Dying City, Tiles of the Arabian Nights...)
Is that really fair? It certainly might give other people a chance to buy the game from the 'new' company, but those that helped bring it into existence, will in all likeliness not get a copy.
In my opinion It is better to do several little publications than one large one, but only because you get a seal for it.
I really liked this game. I gave it a 9. It jumped straight into my top 10 after playing it once.
I think either can be a viable strategy depending on what you're going for/what cards come up. The randomness ensures it isn't as formulaic as 'this strategy always wins'
I think 7 is where I land as well. Not quite the 'Wingspan but better' it was sold to me as
I knew this would be a Sunday DT review (typically more negative-leaning). During my first play I thought "the Dice Tower is going to roast this". But I'm with Chris on this one. It's a really interesting and fun (albeit clunky) game! There's just something unique about it that keeps me coming back. It's a fantastic two-player and solo game, but I would imagine at 3-4 the turns would be agonizingly long. Also, the expansion material should have been included in the base game, mainly for the card variability it offers.
I do like the game and lean towards Chris on this. I don’t mind the mathy nature of the expedition action and once you understand it, the publication action isn’t that bad. I do agree that it is difficult to “dig” through the deck. Probably to encourage more publications. Ark Nova has a similar problem, but you aren’t as confined to what you’re building towards.
One thing I love is getting a strong engine going. Combo a bunch of scholars with certain actions is fun and satisfying. It’s an 8 for me. I need to try it with the expansion.
I definitely agree with Tom on this one. I really wanted to like this game, so I was quite disappointed. I really don't like having to add up so much (money, tokens) to my dice to get to the number I need for an action. Dice go to up to 6, but sometimes you need an action with at least 20, so that makes it really mathy trying to figure that all out. And yes the last 2 actions are just not very intuitive. And like some also mentioned in this review, if the right cards don't come up there's not much you can do about it. So I'm selling my copy...
I enjoyed this game, but I understand the criticism.
The game could have been more streamlined, but at the end of the day, it was quite enjoyable.
P.S. I’d give a 7-7.5, but I can see it eventually getting higher.
What timing - Holy Gail Games has announced they're shut down effective immediately :(
I don't agree with the dice criticism. For two of the spaces, the pip value doesn't matter and for the animal space it has a minimal impact that I have found to be barely a consideration. Higher values are somewhat more likely to be taken, but colour matters for sure. I really love this game and gave it a 9. The tightness of the animal market and how things come out dictates strategy. I have won the game by repeatedly publishing with lower value dice to score end game collection bonuses and by collecting for a larger groups for one large publish action. I have definitely enjoyed this optimization puzzle of a game! Rex judgement: Excellent!
YES!!! I'm glad someone else gets this 😊
The facts are not lying: what you are saying is not right. A die with a value 6 is always better than the one with a 1, because there is no action on the board that gives you a better benefit with a lower than a higher value. That means that it can be very useful to pick a die with a 6 from somebody else, but why should I do that with a 1? And if it was difficult to get those expeditions tokens than you are right with saying that the color is important, but all these rounds it depends on the dice that were coming from the bag and the experts and animal cards. And you can get those tokens enough in the game. And it also had nothing to do with strategy, because I have no idea what is coming the next turn. That means that it is a tactical game that creates a lot of AP and with a dice system that suggested that you have think very hard about the choices: "Shall I take that yellow 6 and give her 3 points?". Come on: in a 200+ point-game that isn't a reasonable choice.
Sadly I’m still waiting on my kickstarter copy of the game. HGG has really left some North American backers hanging.
I appreciate the range of review scores. It’ll be useful to see who I match up with when I hopefully do play the game :)
I'd give the game an 8 as well. I've only ever played it at 2 players. The set collection feels much better for this mid weight game than in Ark Nova. The animal tightness seems the point - you build your own sets. There is a mini expansion that does make the game a bit better with mythic creatures and and good experts.
You did not just put this above Ark Nova...... 👿
@@TheBrokenMeeple Just hoping the set collection stuff gets resolved in Ark Nova with the expansion and I'll be extremely happy with it. As it is - yah 8 is about right for it too.
Oh im surprised by the review. This is our favorite game of 2022/2023 and everybody we teached it to loved it. We hope there will be more stuff out for the game as we love it. It went to the Top of our Top games and left Ark Nova behind it. I totally disagree with Tom on this one. This game plays so smoothly and fast and the downtime is so low. This will be on Top for a long time im sure.
23:10 Perseverance does this. Even Roll Player does this. And it works.
interesting, only heard about this from boardgameco yet and afaik he loved it above all else
I really like this game and played it multiple times with 2 players and solo. I’m giving it a 9
The number is definitely the most valuable part of a review. Everyone agrees with this. Even you, my dear reader.
Sincerely, The President of the Homo Ludens Club
I love this game but I've also only played it solo so far. It's a very crunchy game solo against their AI and I've enjoyed every play of it. Maybe someday I'll be able to play against other people.
Just out of curiosity can we start getting another chapter marker to jump straight to scores? I didn’t need it this time since I listened to the whole review, but sometimes (due to time) I like to skip forward to people’s scores and hear their quick summaries. Thanks for considering!
Just scroll till you see the scores pop up on the bottom of the screen. That’s what I do
@@uplift-yourdailypickup6424 yep I know that
No, this isn't going to happen, sorry. I already think people put too much faith in a number. You should listen to our thoughts WITH the score. Sure, you can scroll to just the number if you want, but I'm not going to make it easy for you. :)
@@thedicetower that’s fine I’ll fast forward when I need to. Btw I don’t watch for the number (don’t really care) but I like the short summaries at the end when I don’t have a lot of time.
@thedicetower I agree with this thinking. Numbers mean different things to different people. Some people think 5s are average. Others think 7 is. Some people think 10s represent the best games out there. Others think 10s mean perfection and so will never use them.
And on, and on. It's a decent barometer to show whether a game is good, mediocre, poor, whatever, but as you say, your comments are far more valuable
Not a great or bad game
I am more concern about HGG. Not able to deliver KS in t8me, lack of info, and NO RESPECT for backers
This project was paid by Rallyman Dirt backers
thanks for the KS alert 😮
I like the dice drafting of Grand Austria Hotel. I sold Encyclopidia after 1 or 2 games. Just not as fun as GAH.
Same here, GAH is much more fun to me personally. This one fell pretty flat for me sadly.
I love Encyclopedia but I'll have to look into GAH if it does things better.
@@roseability86 GAH is SO good!
I'm a big fan of GAH personally.
Well, Holy Grail Games is shutting down today. If any of you want this game, I wouldn't count on another printing.
Chris and I usually align in taste and this is no different. I do play this at 2 player so there is that.
It’s definitely not a game for everyone but it’s been a big hit for my wife and I, especially at 2 players. For me it’s a solid 8-8.5 at 2 players and probably closer to 7 at 3/4 players
I got my copy. Now I need to play it.
Great discussion. Nailed so many of my thoughts on the head...
I want to fix this game...I even have documentation to fix this game because it has such potential! Publisher never got back to me though...one expansion could REALLY ELEVATE this game. It requires elevation right now to me though.
LOVE this game!!! (But I only play solo)
Still waiting to get this in the table. I have it since November. Great to see such different opinions.
But I have to agree, the cardboard boxes are trash. And I think the board is too big, around 75% of the size would have been ok, and still everything else could fit.
I’m glad Yis at least tried to get through with decent arguments. Most of the clunkyness comes from graphic design imo, it seems clean but it’s abysmal in practice. Had a great time in a 3p game. So much tinkering for a light weight game:3 my main negative is that you can’t strategize (new round - reset), would be nice to have some insight as to what’s coming (expansion plz?;).
Tom...your die thought regarding drafting, and drafting low dice gives you bonuses, is a really solid one!
I’m with Chris!
I dont understand how rolling a high dice and getting a benefit from that is a bad game mechanic. Isn't that what most games do, high die wins?
It's a shame this is the game that shut Holy Grail games down. Many backers won't get their games since the company is now in liquidation.
The overview sold me then the criticisms sounded quite fair… I might still try it
My wife published a lot and she won. It may be a bit clunky but its not broken
Mhh, makes sense. Museum was also mainly a good looking game without much in there.
If you're interested in this game, I'd suggest getting it sooner rather than later since publisher Holy Grail just declared bankruptcy.
Will someone pick up the publication now that Holy Grail is no more?
good review, appreciate the different views so I can spend my money more wisely 😅
It’s sad that just a day after this review comes out it’s followed by Holy Grail’s announcement gthat they have declared bankruptcy and are ceasing operations immediately. It’s an amazing game.
I feel like you couldn't do what Wendy suggested if you played the game correctly.
I'm fully convinced that the majority of euro games are best at 2 or 3.
No, most of the time 3 or 4. But there is also a difference speaking about the more classic ones and the more multiplayer solitaire ones that comes out these days.
Sad to see Holy Grail close down today but probably for the best.
HGG is closing shop, so no more content for this game unfortunately. Or maybe the publisher who buys back the licence will be able to make new content?
I'm so glad someone mentioned the boats on the board. I felt the exact same thing. This game was also a 5 for me and I agree exactly with what Tom said.
I've not played it, but based on what I know of it now, it sounds like I'm close to Tom's thoughts. The actions are so disparate in effect and complication that it sounds like they took ideas from 2 or more prototypes and mashed them together and this game emerged.
The best title pun so far
Its an interesting game, a brain burner because of the unintuitive set collection. I also wished the player colours didn't match the cards, it was confusing and some ofvthe graphic design could have helped the unintuitive elements.
I’m surprised at Tom and Mike rating..I’m playing this again today and suspect I’ll be more with Chris
These guys putting down a game I was looking forward to and haven't played yet ticks me off. Also I ALWAYS disagree with Chris and now he LIKES it? I dunno WHAT to think except I better get my copy played soon.
Need more plays, but Wendy is correct it clearly favors only publishing once, bigtime, at the end of the game. And that bothers me
The game feels very numbery, trying to work out what cubes i can buy, the costs of things is hard to remember and multiple resources all doing similar things which hurts my head. I feel like tom. But I know lots of people who love this game.
The game is a 7 for me. I like it, but don't love it. The expansion is a must for me, legendary cards with abilities and event cards which they can be positive or negative effects. I prefer not to use the negative cards
The community dice mechanism sounds like the one in Troyes, but not quite as interesting.
The dice "stealing" really doesn't matter. If you "steal" dice every turn, then the other players MUST "steal" yours as well as every die must be used every round. It really doesn't matter at all, just use the best die (based on color/number) for the current action.
I'm not a euro fan at all (the rest of my game group enjoys them) and especially dislike set collection as a mechanism, but I disliked this one more than most of the recently released euros (and we end up playing just about all of them).
Also, it's the same "issue" in Troyes/Black Angel - but perhaps he doesn't like those either.
I remember needing to flip one of my dice in BA in order to complete a mission, but then another player took it - and you cannot flip the dice you "steal" so I could not use one of his dice to do the same.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen I haven't played BA, but Troyes is one of my favorites. I've played Encyclopedia 3 times and I agree with the general thought that the dice "stealing" in this game is inconsequential. The similarity of being able to take another player's dice with Troyes ends there. In Troyes, your dice pool varies based upon the number of citizens you have. The ability to take more than 1 dice, with each one being more expensive if from another player, leads to more tension in the game and has greater effect. There is also the ability to pass early hoping to collect more money and/or deny your opponent the money. Tom's way to change how this mechanic works in Encyclopedia would streamline Encyclopedia but if implemented with Troyes, would destroy the soul of Troyes.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen Sorry, but that conclusion is absolutely not right. In Troyes you can win with less dice than your opponent for example and the dices with a lower value can be very useful to kick someone out of a row to have a die more in the next round. In this game there is no place on the board that gives a 1 a better effort than a 6! Better said: there are 2 place that otherwise a 6 is absolutely more useful than a lower value. And another very important thing: if you take a die in Troyes from someone else, you have to paid more if it's your second or third one of the group. And that mathematic Delta by paying money that you loose and the other one gets is very well balanced. In Encyclopedia you can get 3 points in a 200+ points game: that's not really a reasonable choice. Also the character cards are very important to make that you can win or lose the game.
Oh my god we actually synched up! Well Tom and Wendy and I do! I think I gave it a six but on further thoughts yeah probably should have been 5.....
This game has a bunch of issues with rules, the dice, the publication action and how the different sets mean nothing in the game. And my token boxes split also and it made selling my copy painful as it devalued the game.
I like Toms idea for the dice much better! And Chris how forgiving are you with that rating, there's more than a few rough edges??! 😂
What do you mean different sets mean nothing? I don't understand what you're trying to say there tbh.
@@roseability86 as in the symbols you score points for, it doesn't matter what ones you pick, just don't diversify
@@TheBrokenMeeple It does! In my 4th game, I decided to try to get the largest sets for end game scoring. I went for low scoring ones but tons of them and lost the game against 3(!) other players - two of whom had never played. I got tons of points at the end but I'd lost out on the larger points for researching and publishing because I focused on matching continent (blue) and food or something. It wasn't enough to make back all the points other people had collected in game by researching and publishing fewer larger scoring. Granted 3 of us scored closely together but my husband won with 50 more points than me. I have beaten him comfortably in other games of Encyclopedia. Maybe this holds true if you collect sets of the larger scoring research and publication symbols (habitat I think?), but that may not be possible depending on cards and that's why it's tricky to become an expert in something and the end game scoring rewards you for it.
TL;DR: the symbols collected definitely mattered a great deal in our 4 player game.
50 points is nothing in a game where the score counter goes over 300-400. But the main issue with the generic sets is that each game is literally "pick one or two sets and a colour and spam it". Preferably a low and a high one. Each one functions the same other than its score value.
I have to ask, did you intentionally time this review to go up on Darwin's birthday or was that just a really neat coincidence?
I sold it after one play. Much agree with Toms feelings about the the game. I really wanted to like it but unfortunately it fell flat.
I absolutely understand the criticism, and I agree with that. I sold the game. One of the biggest disappointment in 2022.
I've only played this game once, and I didn't like it. The decisions weren't that interesting and I found the game WAY too fiddly.
But all the dice are taken Tom...
I really liked it too ha ha .
Great video, LOVE having multiple opinions. Specific to this game: before the end of Mike's overview, I was certain there is no way on Earth I'd waste my time even trying this game. LOL Great job everyone, keep up the good work!
For me this game was also disappointment.
I didn't like this game. Sold it after 3 plays didn't change my mind. It felt unnecessarily complicated. Should have held onto it a little longer in hindsight had I known the company was going out of business.
Ks sucks for euro games ...
This game needed a good developer to fix it
I disagree with Tom. I don't just steal high dice, colour matters!
I totally disagree with you. A 6 is always better in this game than a 1 and you need those higher numbers especially for the 2 more difficult actions lower on the board.
@@hansharleman590 Not always. Unless you can/want to use a token to change the colour of a die, then expedition actions, taking an animal from the matching continent, and possibly even publication actions (haven't played for a while but think that's correct) are not possible unless you use the correct coloured die. Furthermore, you get a bonus free expert for using a matching colour die. In ALL of those instances, there is incentive to choose a lower die of the correct colour than a 6 of the wrong one. Besides, you can use any die to get 5 coins from the bank.
@@roseability86YES ALWAYS! Because there is no place on the board that gives you a higher benefit when you put there a die of a lower value. And otherwise there are 4 places where a 6 gives more and the other 2 doesn´t matter, but if I take your die you don´t have the opportunity to do the other 4 options. So the conclusion is: a 6 is always better than a 1! I take your 6 and go to the embassy and get 3 expeditions tokens: colour problem solved! And the bonuses that you get if someone else takes your die is also not so interesting if you were thinking at first sight. 3 Points in a game with more than 200 points is not something you have to think about very hard. The only real interesting thing in this game is your track, but that's it. Conclusion: 99 out of 100 in a round everyone is first using the dice with a higer value for the actions 4, 5 and 6 and those with a lower value for the actions 1, 2 and 3. Alex of Talking Shelf Space did a great and interesting review of the game.
@@hansharleman590 thats not true. color matters so much. I sometime rather take a 1 than using my 6, bc the one is the color i need. So you dont need expedition tokens to change that. Coins for changing the value is much easier to get. That was the point Tom was so wrong when he said, the higher value the better. Thats false. We played this game like 25 times since we got it in November and there has been no game where we only drafted the high values. Also we never put the dice from lowest to highest on our board, you really should think what the other players may want or need. Im starting to feel that Tom, Mike and Wendy didnt play it right or didnt see the nuances in this game mechanism.
@@MarkBuschhausYes, ofcourse it´s the true otherwise I don´t write it down overhere. Color isn´t so much important as I wrote above, because it depends on the dice in play. I played this game with 3 and with 4 and the color issue wasn't there at all for the players. But it took both times more than 4 hours to end the game, because of the AP-created way they make it even as it looks an easy game. And Tom is not wrong saying the higher value is always better: I explain it above. None of the 6 actions on the board give your a better effort with a lower value die than a higer value die! It has absolutely not the class and depth like dice games as Troyes, Grand Austria Hotel, La Granja, Golem, Marco Polo and Coimbra for example.
It's not convoluted. It's a matching game. If it matches the animal you pick, you get to score.
It's about optimizing the matches you have to score the most efficiently.
Tom would get destroyed if he just kept taking dice from others. That's not a winning strategy. You aren't really stealing, you are paying others.
I'm glad Mike mentioned the cardboard containers. Those were atrociously made. Just trash (or rather recycling). No insert either, so glad there is a good 3D model to print out there for one.
At least Chris and Mike were the voice of reason.
So anyone who doesn't like the game is unreasonable? 🤔 Let's not insult others for having differing tastes please.
Wholeheartedly agree!
@@thecuriousboardgamer But it's so fun to argue about games and stuff!
I don't think Tom meant, "just take other's dice for the sake of taking it." Rather take the best die available because the benefit to the other player is small and eventually it gets neutered by someone else having to take your die anyways. Sure, you "pay" others but they will likely "pay" you back. It's a poor attempt at introducing player interaction resulting in unnecessary AP that could have been streamlined in a way he suggested.
Also, let's not trivialize it to "it's a matching game." The publication action is not a simple match to the reference animal and be done:
1) The value of the die determines what types you can publish.
2) You don't need to match completely but if you can and decide to publish at least one type to remove a cube from a card then the other cubes are removed.
3) If you decide to publish the matching Type 0 (Continent), then that can be part of your set collection. However, if you "match" a cube in 2) but don't match Type 0, then you can't collect the card.
Yes, there's matching. But I would say the scoring and collection part is convoluted. At least in my group, the publication action trips people the most on. On the positive side, you really only need to do it 1-2 times the entire game to do well. Actually, I would argue you should only do it 1-2 times.
Oh Guys/Gals think you got this game sooo wrong
All four of us, who had different opinions?
My most disappointing game of 2022. Not bad but 6/10. Sold it after 3 plays at solo, 2, and 3 players. Definitely has some rough edges. Agree that the dice "stealing" mechanic is shoehorned player interaction resulting in unnecessary AP that has insignificant results; just take the best die available to you. Also, the game seems rather on rails. Yeah, you should only publish 1-2 times during the game; at least that's how I score 300+ points. Just glad I was able to get my KS money back while it was "hot."
Game seems so convoluted to do something simple. I’ll pass
Didn't back - but was raved about by some for the KS- really pays to hold off - any great games - have a good chance to return to KS - or if done right the retail version is just sweet and dandy - If the KS is the definitive edition and the retail is nerfed - then I hate your stupidity - so makes the game stupid - plus I can understand a new co=op discovery game etc - But how many of the above games do you need ?- given best played a lot by same players to understand meta .