I have 6x 5 Foot fluorescent light fittings in my garage, I swapped the old tubes for LED tubes about 6 months ago, I really wish I had done it years ago, I find the led's much brighter. I often spend 6-7 hours working in there, and have noticed huge savings on my electricity bill.So its a win win situation.
I know what you mean. I've still got 4 single fittings with fluorescents in them, but being a tight wad, I'm only going to replace them when they finally give up the ghost ... Cheers, Chris
Thank you for the info.I did not know there are L.E.D. florescent replacements..will have to source a few for the shed and kitchen. The father kept a stockpile of florescent tubes in the shed so no shortage here for now, but still time for change.
Glad you found it useful. Yes, I think they've been around for a few years, but I hadn't been aware of them until it came time to look for a replacement fluorescent tube on Screwfix and they didn't have any in stock anymore. Cheers, Chris
I was about to find a replacement tube for an old failed fluorescent, so I found your video and researches extremly useful. Well done! I will be fitting a new LED batten in the other half of my partitioned garage workshop. I found your steady presentation style a nice change from the usual frenetic style of some presenters from over the pond.
Thanks for the great feedback. I'm often concerned that my videos end up being too long compared to others - and there's always room to improve my editing skills - but it's nice to hear that you found it positive, rather than receiving the odd snarky comment (which goes with the territory I guess). Cheers, Chris
I replaced two double five foot tubes in my kitchen with two new battens and am very pleased indeed. Much cleaner, instant starting and, hopefully more reliable. They certainly look much nicer.
Totally agree that completely new LED battens visually look a lot better. Not too much of a worry for the garage, though may end up fitting a couple in the end, as some of my remaining fluorescent fittings are getting quite long in the tooth. Cheers, Chris
HI MY OLD FLUORESCENT LIGHTS WAS FLICKING ON OFF ALL THE TIME SO I GOT LED LIGHTS LIKE THE CEILING FANS 4 OF THEM ON EACH LIGHT THAT YOU CAN TURN ANYWAY YOU WANT THEY GIVE OF BRILLIANT LIGHT ESPECIALLY WHERE YOU WORK BUT STILL LIGHTING UP 12/10 SHED GREAT 👍 £7 EACH OF TEMU DIDN'T THINK THAT THEY WOULD BE THAT GOOD WHAT A SURPRISE
MMMMM thanks for showing us these tubes Dave ,i didn't realize L E D s were just a straight swap ,i thought you had to buy the units complete , i will be swapping mine out now ,cheers . Greetings from Wales .
Agreed. Quite a few people commenting on this video make the point that fixtures that incorporate LEDs, rather than using removable LED bulbs/tubes, may not prove to be the best long-term approach, given that you have to replace the whole fixture when the LEDs fail. Don't know which you did, but I guess it comes down to the cost and whether you're happy doing any re-wiring, or whether you need to pay an electrician. The remaining fluorescent fixtures in my garage are pretty old now, so will need replacing in some way or other - whether that's with these LED tubes, or complete new fixtures (which I'll fit). Either way, they'll be LEDs. 👍
@ I replaced all the fittings as they were secondhand 25 years ago, so were well past their sell by date! I bought the new units from Screwfix during a sale. Now I need to replace the units in my home office as well.
The old tubes were non-directional. You seem to be saying that the new ones have an 'up' and a 'down'. Therefore, properly fitted, the proportion of the LED pointing downwards should be higher.
Exactly. I agree it's marginal ... 6 to 10% based on my, admittedly limited, testing ... but there is a difference. I haven't taken one of these tubes apart, but from what I can see, they are essentially just a ribbon string of LEDs, stuck to the inner surface of the tube. Cheers, Chris
I have just replaced a starter for my Garage Fluorescent. I was thinking of using the LED straight replacement tubes but my starter is in the side of the fitting not the end. Does anyone know if the LED replacement will work with a side starter? Don’t want to get one and find it won’t work for that reason! Many thanks!
Hi Andrew, I'm not an expert on any of this ... but I'm fairly sure the fact that your starter is on the side rather than the end (as was the case on the double fitting I showed in the vid) is not significant at all. What matters is the type of ballast inside the light fitting itself and, unless there's any sort of product information on the outside, the only way to find out the type of ballast would be to remove the cover and take a look inside. Obviously if you're going to do that, make sure the electricity is off at the time. If you can find any type of product number, or photograph a label, you might be able to find out what type it is by using google etc Cheers Chris
I'm loving that ceiling. Does it get hot in the summer though? I have electronic fittings for my fluorescents, instant on but I'm not sure they'd work with LEDs. The new "flat panel" LED lights are amazing though. Use plenty of power mind you.
Thanks. I insulated between the rafters with some Rockwool / loft insulation and then covered the whole lot with the aluminised bubble stuff. Left a few air gaps here and there to try to avoid any moisture and mould build up. It definitely improved things a bit (in the colder months) but I reckon I still lose a lot of heat via the main garage door. Thought about insulating that too but never got round to it. Don't have a problem in summer - just open the back door and there's plenty of fresh air. Regarding the flat panel LED lights, I actually bought one a year or so ago with a view to trying it (mainly to improve lighting for the videos) but I'm struggling for space where to fit it. I really need to take the wood rack, ladder rack and air filter down so I could start with a blank canvas .... just haven't got round to that either, as yet 🤣
Have a look at Philips CorePro LED tube Universal ,there a whole family of them,some are available in 4000K & 6500K versions, they work with Electro Magnetic ballasts or HF Electronic ballasts. But, looking at your fittings would have replaced them with new LED batten.
Thanks for that. It's certainly an advantage that they operate with either type of ballast. The twin fitting that I replaced the tubes in isn't actually that old (maybe 5 to 6 years) so still plenty of life in it 😊 The other two singles (I didn't show) are a lot older, so I'll probably replace them with new LED battens once I run out of fluorescents to use up. Cheers
That was very intresting,I have already done this but I was told you had to take the old ballest out of circut and I did not need any replacement starters, you just take the old ones out.
Thanks. That's interesting. Looking at the instructions, it says that these particular tubes are only compatible with ferromagnetic battens when used with the LED starter provided, or with LED replaceable battens (that don't have starters at all). It says they're not compatible with battens operating with electronic ballasts. Doesn't say anything about the option of taking the old ballast out of the circuit ... but it seems that there are also tubes on the market that work with both types of battens. One of the other comments names these - can't remember but might have been Philips - so I guess it's a case of double checking the instructions that come with any particular tube. Cheers, Chris
Your correct take the cover disconnect all the control gear and from each endcap insert a live and neutral plug in yuor lamps and throw the starters in the bin
I recently saw a breakdown of all household electrical items and how much power they actually consume. I saw that LED's actually over time cost more. Switched on for a short time not a problem but for hours on end the power companies make more money. I cannot be the only person that has changed out more "long life" modern lamps than they ever did with the old filament lamps. All that nonsense of 60 watts equivalent and you need to get a head torch on to see what you are doing !!! There is no way on planet earth electricity companies are ever going to let the public have something that lasts forever and costs nothing. i.e. cars that last 50 years and run on fresh air. My wife had LED strip lights installed under the kitchen cabinets of which 1 strip died and I have replaced 3 transformers.
I'm certainly sceptical about the claimed lifetime for LED bulbs of various forms ... I've swapped more 'LED Candle' bulbs than I've had hot dinners ... but I think the problem lies in the fact that they're all churned out in China where (not always but a lot of the time) they use the cheapest components they can. Having said that, I have found an LED GU10 which works very well for us, as it has an above average brightness (660lm / 5.7W) so I don't need the head torch anymore 🤣. www.toolstation.com/integral-led-classic-gu10-dimmable-lamp/p36746 if you're interested. How you track lifetime though, beyond timing when you switch on and off, is the problem - but life's too short for all of that ... Cheers, Chris
Fitted 19 LED gu10 spots in our kitchen and utility 11 years ago. Have only had to replace 3 lamps in that time. Power consumption is a fraction of the old lamps that came with the fittings. Only disadvantage is the kitchen gets cold in the winter! All the lamps are Screwfix own brand. I fitted dimmable LED lamps in our daughter’s bedroom ten years ago. No failures yet, touch wood.
LED downlighters 8 off have all gone yellow and two have packed ip. Back in the day they were very expensive and now i've had to replace them all, not that cheap even now. I wonder about the supposed savings.
There is a huge difference in the quality of light fittings on sale. For once, Screwfix LAP LED's are pretty well respected (as are IKEA). I can't say the same for the rest of the LAP wiring accessories as my own experience of those is that they are junk. I've got Excite LED battens (from City Electrical Factors) under my kitchen units and they've been in for about eight years now. Changing lighting without doing the work to ascertain the light distribution never gives a good result. Luminairs from reputable manufacturers have polar graphs showing the light distribution (and intensity) around the fitting at various distances. If you use this against your floor plan, knowing the height at which you're installing them, you'll get an idea of the incident light levels at work surfaces, etc. As for a lower wattage LED consuming more power than a old tungsten or fluorescent of a higher wattage that is obviously wrong. Power is power. The number to be looking at the Lumens/Watt. And old school lamp bulb was around 1 L/W, a fluorescent (high frequency electronic ballast type) around 100 L/W, a SOx lamp (old style orange street lights) was around 100-150 L/W. LED efficiency depends a lot on the technology used to drive them. Cheap LED lamps use a series capacitor to act as a voltage dropper, more expensive ones use proper, high efficiency driver circuits. Generally, a good quality LED should be achieving around the 100 L/W figure. Like any 'new' technology there's a lot of failed attempts out there. Some of the earliest lamps I was asked to change consisted if nothing more than a bunch of 5mm LEDs, wired in series and stuffed into a lamp base. There was no cooling and their life was short.
Two problems with your light metering procedure: a) you should have taken a light measurement with the lights off to get a measure of the daylight contribution b) a proper light meter has specific settings for tungsten, fluorescent and led lights as they have different spectral distributions and the single sensor has to use a different calibration for each. Further to this, are you replacing tubes of the same power rating as the LED lamps? The other thing with fluorescents is that they take around 200 hours to 'burn in' and then they have an operational life of around 5000 hours before the performance starts to fall off. I used to look after the lights in a retail store and we used to relamp the store every two years and you could really see the difference.
Hi and thanks for the feedback. I did take take the 'lights off' readings when I was experimenting with the position of the LED strip but forgot to do those for the main test 🤦♂️ For sure, I totally agree that using an app on the phone is nothing like using a calibrated light meter, but I was only aiming for broad brush comparisons. Regarding power ratings, the fluorescents I was replacing were 58W, with a claimed brightness of 5200 lumens each, giving a theoretical total of 10,400 for the pair. Compared to that, the new LED versions were only 3300 lumens each, giving 6,600 in total, but they were the highest that were readily available. So my layman's expectations that the LEDs would be brighter (without having looked at the specs for the fluorescents beforehand) was clearly unreasonable, but I guess one of the points I was trying to get over was that for most people(?), they'd probably just waltz into Screwfix or similar and get what they thought was a 'like-for-like' replacement, but which in fact is significantly less bright than a new fluorescent would have been (if you could get hold of one). But it's obviously less so, once the fluorescents have be used for quite a while - I'd guess the ones I swapped had been there for 5 to 7 years maybe (and still have life in them), but I have no idea how many hours that would correspond to. All very interesting stuff once you dig into it. Cheers, Chris👍
I also wasn't aware you could change fluor. for LED....thanks for that, Dave...and thanks to all the Comments pointing out good gen on these fittings. Comment@raydavison has a major point...DON'T... that's DON'T buy fittings with onboard LED's....get loose LED's. My onboard fitting failed after 3 years; whole thing has to go; abominable design.
Totally agree. We’ve been looking for some new lighting fixtures for our living room and it seems the manufacturers are really pushing those with integrated / onboard LEDs, but whilst they might look ‘cool’ and ‘fashionable’ I’d be very wary about their longevity. Perhaps not so much of an issue if you’re just buying a cheap n cheerful thing that you could afford to replace after a couple of years if it went wrong, but if you’re talking about something more expensive, then they’re not for me. Cheers, Chris
Hi. You are correct in saying that your eyes are playing tricks. As the CCT of the LEDs are 4000k, you rods and cones in your eyes react better to whiter light, therefore we see better with led lighting after 4k to 6k. Not worth getting leds that have a cct greater than 6k as the light starts to turn blue in the colour spectrum. It is the same in summer months when the clocks change out of winter in the UK, as we fell more energetic in lighter months than we do in winter months...,..Phew!
Thanks - didn't know about that, though probably should have, considering one of my daughters is an optometrist 🤣 Anything that makes me feel more energetic in the winter is a good thing...!! 🤣🤣
If your fittings have power factor correcting capacitors and you don't remove them they will NOT get any power saving. I bought dozens of similar tubes from TLC and several months later measured their consumption and found it was no lower. Challenging the claims on their web site TLC (after a bit of wrangling) sent their expert to my workshop and he confirmed my findings. It then took several emails to get their web site changed to reflect this issue which eventually they did.
Interesting! I mainly bought these down to the fact that Screwfix didn't have any fluorescents and I thought they were worth a try, rather than specifically on the energy consumption. Cheers, Chris
This is the problem with all leds, they glare but fail to put the light down into the surface. Just look at streetlights and see the dark patches between them compared to the previous sodium lights. For some time a road near me had LEDs on one side and sodium on the other, the difference and poor performance of the LEDs was very obvious. Superior longevity of LEDs is a myth.
The life of most Most LED's is massively exaggerated and their quality varies enormously as does their light output (As you have found in this experiment). It's vital to check the light output is suitable for your needs as two LED's with the same power rating can have light output that varies as much as 50%. Fluorescent tubes will outlast LED's by many years, possibly even decades, the ones in my garage have been in for 35 years. And don't install light fittings with onboard LED's (As opposed to using loose LED bulbs) as when the LED's die - which they inevitably will far sooner than you expect - you will require a new fitting to be installed (With possibly a bill from an electrician too) not just a change of bulb
Totally agree with your comment about integrated / onboard LEDs, but especially so if you’re buying an expensive fixture, per my comment to Firebrand55. Cheers, Chris
Hi, I'm open to being proved wrong, but I'm not sure that's the case, as there's nothing in the instructions to suggest that, and it would surely lead to a lot of customer returns..? I'll give it a try when I get a chance and report back.
Fluorescents don't age well. LED's age better. Also better to take the ballast out and rewire without ballast or starter replacement as saves a few watts. Got some cheap LED replacements in my kitchen and took electronic ballasts out been in a few years now without a problem and much better instant start.
Jeez! 18 minutes on replacing a fluorescent tube. I did two of these the other day, and the whole job including reading the instructions, took less than 10. They're definitely brighter, massively so.
Thanks for the feedback. If I'd have wanted to make a video that only lasted as long as it took me to actually swap the two tubes, it would only have lasted 3 minutes..... what took you so long ....?😧
I'm afraid I disagree - it depends on your circumstances. Fine if you're comfortable doing a bit of electrical work yourself (done plenty of it myself), but if you have to pay a sparky to fit a new batten, you're talking anywhere from £50 to £100+, plus the cost of the batten (min. £40 to get 6000+ lumens based on Screwfix today). If you're unsure whether it will be suitable for your existing fitting, fine, then take advice. But each to their own. Cheers
@handyman-at-home While, to some extent, I agree. Manufacturers won't continue to make LED tubes when LED fittings are ready available. I used to work in the trade. Bite the bullet and replace your fitting
@@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway Its no different to one of the newer counterparts failing since you have to get a whole new unit as they are non serviceable and for most people it mean getting an electrician in to basically change a bulb. Not to mention the environmental consequences. This is more the way forward imho.
@jsouto77 100% there is. Fluorescent fitting is date by design, and so will the LED replacement tubes. Plus, an LED fitting will offer a higher lumens. It isn't my money that will be wasted
@@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway Why is it?...It's a body that you fit a bulb into. just like every other build that was replaced with LED around the house. I make my own lighting from led strips and I can achieve Lumens parity with these LED Battens in a far more elegant and sustainable way.
I've worked in the lighting industry for decades. It's a complete waste of time taking light meter readings in a situation where natural daylight can influence your light meter. Natural light levels are constantly changing and can range all the way up to over 50,000 lux on a very bright day, but vary by thousands of lux as clouds pass over, and the time of day can make a difference too as the earth rotates. The iris in our eyes automatically opens and closes so we don't often notice the difference. If you have 8000 lux on your workbench, it's probable that 7750 is from daylight and 250 comes from your light fitting. Also, the light meter software for mobile phones is notoriously inaccurate. It can be used for comparative purposes, but not to get an accurate figure.
Hi, and thanks for the feedback. Agreed - it was a real newbie error taking the readings with so much daylight coming through the window🤦♂️. My intention was to try and give a simple comparison between the old fluorescents and the new LEDs, but clearly it's a lot more involved than that. Have been doing a bit more experimenting with the light meter app and have found it's very variable - sometimes it's almost spot on, and sometimes it's a million miles (or lux!) out. Been looking at some of the cheap(er) light meters on Amazon and am not convinced that they're a great deal better to be honest - any recommendations? Cheers, Chris
@@handyman-at-home Hi, like everything, you get what you pay for. I use a Hagner EC1 meter, but they're difficult to source, and are about £350. Too much to pay for occasional use. I wouldn't look at anything under £100. The other issue is that they all (despite the manufacturer's claims otherwise) drift in their calibration over time. I've seen meters that were 30% off after a few years. But, it's impossible to determine the accuracy and recalibrate without access to very sophisticated lab equipment. Your basic finding that LED tubes are not as bright as the fluorescents they're replace is spot on. Some might find they're brighter than the old lamps they take out because fluorescent lamps decline in light output over time. A rule of thumb figure is 30% drop in output after 20,000 hours burning. But older tubes will give out far less. I hope that helps.
I'd be concerned buying lighting from Screwfix. Everything i ever got from them broke within 3 years. Expensive when its a whole commercial unit full of led ceiling panels, or apartments with downlights. Having to redo a whole job every few years adds up....and trashes your reputation
The main thing I've had a problem with is door locks. Had to return a couple because in one case it'd been badly assembled, and the other was missing a couple of parts. (I suspect what happens is that people return stuff that get's put back into stock without anyone checking it first). The one thing I will say is that I've never had a problem getting a refund or exchange. Cheers
I don't think it's Screwfix (Although they are a lesser store since B&Q bought them) but products in general today. The drive for cost reduction which we all take advantage of means almost all products are worse than they were twenty years ago when advances in technology should be making them better.
💯Couldn't agree more. Whenever you buy something that comes with screws included, they are inevitably soft as ***t and chew up instantly you try to use them e.g. light fittings, curtain rails etc etc. Contrast that with a 50+ year wooden cabinet that I took down for someone the other day. Solid brass screws, in as good a condition as the day it was made. OK, they were slotted head, which can be more of a pain than Posidrive, but perfectly serviceable to reuse for another 50 years. Compared to the cheap stuff which just goes straight into my recycle scrap bin. "... Progress ..."
I have 6x 5 Foot fluorescent light fittings in my garage, I swapped the old tubes for LED tubes about 6 months ago, I really wish I had done it years ago, I find the led's much brighter. I often spend 6-7 hours working in there, and have noticed huge savings on my electricity bill.So its a win win situation.
Totally agree. Cheers, Chris
Very useful,didn’t know there were LED replacements available…thanks for the info 👍
Thanks. Neither did I 😊
Fit these in my garage many years ago. I was sick of the fluorescent tubes, by the time they fired up I'd grabbed what I wanted and left.
I know what you mean. I've still got 4 single fittings with fluorescents in them, but being a tight wad, I'm only going to replace them when they finally give up the ghost ... Cheers, Chris
@@cypeman8037 I fitted electronic starters, which seemed to speed things up a bit.
Thank you for the info.I did not know there are L.E.D. florescent replacements..will have to source a few for the shed and kitchen. The father kept a stockpile of florescent tubes in the shed so no shortage here for now, but still time for change.
Glad you found it useful. Yes, I think they've been around for a few years, but I hadn't been aware of them until it came time to look for a replacement fluorescent tube on Screwfix and they didn't have any in stock anymore. Cheers, Chris
I was about to find a replacement tube for an old failed fluorescent, so I found your video and researches extremly useful. Well done! I will be fitting a new LED batten in the other half of my partitioned garage workshop. I found your steady presentation style a nice change from the usual frenetic style of some presenters from over the pond.
Thanks for the great feedback. I'm often concerned that my videos end up being too long compared to others - and there's always room to improve my editing skills - but it's nice to hear that you found it positive, rather than receiving the odd snarky comment (which goes with the territory I guess). Cheers, Chris
I replaced two double five foot tubes in my kitchen with two new battens and am very pleased indeed. Much cleaner, instant starting and, hopefully more reliable. They certainly look much nicer.
Totally agree that completely new LED battens visually look a lot better. Not too much of a worry for the garage, though may end up fitting a couple in the end, as some of my remaining fluorescent fittings are getting quite long in the tooth. Cheers, Chris
I’ve done the same in the garage. The new battens are excellent and were easy to fix
HI MY OLD FLUORESCENT LIGHTS WAS FLICKING ON OFF ALL THE TIME
SO I GOT LED LIGHTS
LIKE THE CEILING FANS 4 OF THEM ON EACH LIGHT
THAT YOU CAN TURN ANYWAY YOU WANT THEY GIVE OF BRILLIANT LIGHT ESPECIALLY WHERE YOU WORK
BUT STILL LIGHTING UP 12/10 SHED GREAT 👍 £7 EACH OF TEMU DIDN'T THINK THAT THEY WOULD BE THAT GOOD WHAT A SURPRISE
MMMMM thanks for showing us these tubes Dave ,i didn't realize L E D s were just a straight swap ,i thought you had to buy the units complete , i will be swapping mine out now ,cheers . Greetings from Wales .
Glad you found it useful. Chris
Thanks for taking the time. Regards
Cheers, Chris 👍
I replaced the old fluorescent lights in my workshop with LEDs and the contrast was amazing, the new ones are so much brighter
Agreed. Quite a few people commenting on this video make the point that fixtures that incorporate LEDs, rather than using removable LED bulbs/tubes, may not prove to be the best long-term approach, given that you have to replace the whole fixture when the LEDs fail. Don't know which you did, but I guess it comes down to the cost and whether you're happy doing any re-wiring, or whether you need to pay an electrician. The remaining fluorescent fixtures in my garage are pretty old now, so will need replacing in some way or other - whether that's with these LED tubes, or complete new fixtures (which I'll fit). Either way, they'll be LEDs. 👍
@ I replaced all the fittings as they were secondhand 25 years ago, so were well past their sell by date! I bought the new units from Screwfix during a sale. Now I need to replace the units in my home office as well.
.
Reminded me of an Aberdeen Angus.
A couple of good points
along with a load of bull.
.
Boom boom! Don't give up the day job...
@@handyman-at-home .
0/10 Must try Harder.
.
Interesting video and assessment, thanks.
Thanks for the feedback 👍
Brilliant info
Thankyou
Thanks 👍
Excellent video, thanks
Thanks. Cheers, Chris
Very informative video
Thanks 👍
The old tubes were non-directional. You seem to be saying that the new ones have an 'up' and a 'down'. Therefore, properly fitted, the proportion of the LED pointing downwards should be higher.
Exactly. I agree it's marginal ... 6 to 10% based on my, admittedly limited, testing ... but there is a difference. I haven't taken one of these tubes apart, but from what I can see, they are essentially just a ribbon string of LEDs, stuck to the inner surface of the tube. Cheers, Chris
@@handyman-at-home I had a broken one from Screwfix and they are basically just that. The tubes are glass which is coated white on the inside.
I have just replaced a starter for my Garage Fluorescent. I was thinking of using the LED straight replacement tubes but my starter is in the side of the fitting not the end. Does anyone know if the LED replacement will work with a side starter? Don’t want to get one and find it won’t work for that reason! Many thanks!
Hi Andrew,
I'm not an expert on any of this ... but I'm fairly sure the fact that your starter is on the side rather than the end (as was the case on the double fitting I showed in the vid) is not significant at all.
What matters is the type of ballast inside the light fitting itself and, unless there's any sort of product information on the outside, the only way to find out the type of ballast would be to remove the cover and take a look inside.
Obviously if you're going to do that, make sure the electricity is off at the time.
If you can find any type of product number, or photograph a label, you might be able to find out what type it is by using google etc
Cheers
Chris
@ Thanks Chris - I will check the google offerings to find out what the ballast in my type of light is for starters as the fitting is now 50 yrs old!
I'm loving that ceiling. Does it get hot in the summer though? I have electronic fittings for my fluorescents, instant on but I'm not sure they'd work with LEDs. The new "flat panel" LED lights are amazing though. Use plenty of power mind you.
Thanks. I insulated between the rafters with some Rockwool / loft insulation and then covered the whole lot with the aluminised bubble stuff. Left a few air gaps here and there to try to avoid any moisture and mould build up. It definitely improved things a bit (in the colder months) but I reckon I still lose a lot of heat via the main garage door. Thought about insulating that too but never got round to it. Don't have a problem in summer - just open the back door and there's plenty of fresh air. Regarding the flat panel LED lights, I actually bought one a year or so ago with a view to trying it (mainly to improve lighting for the videos) but I'm struggling for space where to fit it. I really need to take the wood rack, ladder rack and air filter down so I could start with a blank canvas .... just haven't got round to that either, as yet 🤣
Have a look at Philips CorePro LED tube Universal ,there a whole family of them,some are available in 4000K & 6500K versions, they work with Electro Magnetic ballasts or HF Electronic ballasts.
But, looking at your fittings would have replaced them with new LED batten.
Thanks for that. It's certainly an advantage that they operate with either type of ballast. The twin fitting that I replaced the tubes in isn't actually that old (maybe 5 to 6 years) so still plenty of life in it 😊 The other two singles (I didn't show) are a lot older, so I'll probably replace them with new LED battens once I run out of fluorescents to use up. Cheers
@@stuartandrews4344 you get what you pay for. Cheap Chinese vs quality European manufacturer. No contest.
That was very intresting,I have already done this but I was told you had to take the old ballest out of circut and I did not need any replacement starters, you just take the old ones out.
Thanks. That's interesting. Looking at the instructions, it says that these particular tubes are only compatible with ferromagnetic battens when used with the LED starter provided, or with LED replaceable battens (that don't have starters at all). It says they're not compatible with battens operating with electronic ballasts. Doesn't say anything about the option of taking the old ballast out of the circuit ... but it seems that there are also tubes on the market that work with both types of battens. One of the other comments names these - can't remember but might have been Philips - so I guess it's a case of double checking the instructions that come with any particular tube. Cheers, Chris
Your correct take the cover disconnect all the control gear and from each endcap insert a live and neutral plug in yuor lamps and throw the starters in the bin
I recently saw a breakdown of all household electrical items and how much power they actually consume. I saw that LED's actually over time cost more. Switched on for a short time not a problem but for hours on end the power companies make more money. I cannot be the only person that has changed out more "long life" modern lamps than they ever did with the old filament lamps. All that nonsense of 60 watts equivalent and you need to get a head torch on to see what you are doing !!! There is no way on planet earth electricity companies are ever going to let the public have something that lasts forever and costs nothing. i.e. cars that last 50 years and run on fresh air. My wife had LED strip lights installed under the kitchen cabinets of which 1 strip died and I have replaced 3 transformers.
I'm certainly sceptical about the claimed lifetime for LED bulbs of various forms ... I've swapped more 'LED Candle' bulbs than I've had hot dinners ... but I think the problem lies in the fact that they're all churned out in China where (not always but a lot of the time) they use the cheapest components they can. Having said that, I have found an LED GU10 which works very well for us, as it has an above average brightness (660lm / 5.7W) so I don't need the head torch anymore 🤣. www.toolstation.com/integral-led-classic-gu10-dimmable-lamp/p36746 if you're interested. How you track lifetime though, beyond timing when you switch on and off, is the problem - but life's too short for all of that ...
Cheers, Chris
Fitted 19 LED gu10 spots in our kitchen and utility 11 years ago. Have only had to replace 3 lamps in that time. Power consumption is a fraction of the old lamps that came with the fittings. Only disadvantage is the kitchen gets cold in the winter! All the lamps are Screwfix own brand. I fitted dimmable LED lamps
in our daughter’s bedroom ten years ago. No failures yet, touch wood.
Led bulbs and lights were touted as long lasting found is bull+++
LED downlighters 8 off have all gone yellow and two have packed ip. Back in the day they were very expensive and now i've had to replace them all, not that cheap even now. I wonder about the supposed savings.
There is a huge difference in the quality of light fittings on sale. For once, Screwfix LAP LED's are pretty well respected (as are IKEA). I can't say the same for the rest of the LAP wiring accessories as my own experience of those is that they are junk.
I've got Excite LED battens (from City Electrical Factors) under my kitchen units and they've been in for about eight years now.
Changing lighting without doing the work to ascertain the light distribution never gives a good result. Luminairs from reputable manufacturers have polar graphs showing the light distribution (and intensity) around the fitting at various distances. If you use this against your floor plan, knowing the height at which you're installing them, you'll get an idea of the incident light levels at work surfaces, etc.
As for a lower wattage LED consuming more power than a old tungsten or fluorescent of a higher wattage that is obviously wrong. Power is power. The number to be looking at the Lumens/Watt. And old school lamp bulb was around 1 L/W, a fluorescent (high frequency electronic ballast type) around 100 L/W, a SOx lamp (old style orange street lights) was around 100-150 L/W. LED efficiency depends a lot on the technology used to drive them. Cheap LED lamps use a series capacitor to act as a voltage dropper, more expensive ones use proper, high efficiency driver circuits. Generally, a good quality LED should be achieving around the 100 L/W figure.
Like any 'new' technology there's a lot of failed attempts out there. Some of the earliest lamps I was asked to change consisted if nothing more than a bunch of 5mm LEDs, wired in series and stuffed into a lamp base. There was no cooling and their life was short.
Two problems with your light metering procedure: a) you should have taken a light measurement with the lights off to get a measure of the daylight contribution b) a proper light meter has specific settings for tungsten, fluorescent and led lights as they have different spectral distributions and the single sensor has to use a different calibration for each.
Further to this, are you replacing tubes of the same power rating as the LED lamps?
The other thing with fluorescents is that they take around 200 hours to 'burn in' and then they have an operational life of around 5000 hours before the performance starts to fall off. I used to look after the lights in a retail store and we used to relamp the store every two years and you could really see the difference.
Hi and thanks for the feedback.
I did take take the 'lights off' readings when I was experimenting with the position of the LED strip but forgot to do those for the main test 🤦♂️
For sure, I totally agree that using an app on the phone is nothing like using a calibrated light meter, but I was only aiming for broad brush comparisons.
Regarding power ratings, the fluorescents I was replacing were 58W, with a claimed brightness of 5200 lumens each, giving a theoretical total of 10,400 for the pair. Compared to that, the new LED versions were only 3300 lumens each, giving 6,600 in total, but they were the highest that were readily available.
So my layman's expectations that the LEDs would be brighter (without having looked at the specs for the fluorescents beforehand) was clearly unreasonable, but I guess one of the points I was trying to get over was that for most people(?), they'd probably just waltz into Screwfix or similar and get what they thought was a 'like-for-like' replacement, but which in fact is significantly less bright than a new fluorescent would have been (if you could get hold of one).
But it's obviously less so, once the fluorescents have be used for quite a while - I'd guess the ones I swapped had been there for 5 to 7 years maybe (and still have life in them), but I have no idea how many hours that would correspond to.
All very interesting stuff once you dig into it. Cheers, Chris👍
It would remove another variable if the tests had been done at night, thereby removing the (considerable) contribution from sunlight.
I also wasn't aware you could change fluor. for LED....thanks for that, Dave...and thanks to all the Comments pointing out good gen on these fittings. Comment@raydavison has a major point...DON'T... that's DON'T buy fittings with onboard LED's....get loose LED's. My onboard fitting failed after 3 years; whole thing has to go; abominable design.
Totally agree. We’ve been looking for some new lighting fixtures for our living room and it seems the manufacturers are really pushing those with integrated / onboard LEDs, but whilst they might look ‘cool’ and ‘fashionable’ I’d be very wary about their longevity. Perhaps not so much of an issue if you’re just buying a cheap n cheerful thing that you could afford to replace after a couple of years if it went wrong, but if you’re talking about something more expensive, then they’re not for me. Cheers, Chris
Hi. You are correct in saying that your eyes are playing tricks. As the CCT of the LEDs are 4000k, you rods and cones in your eyes react better to whiter light, therefore we see better with led lighting after 4k to 6k. Not worth getting leds that have a cct greater than 6k as the light starts to turn blue in the colour spectrum. It is the same in summer months when the clocks change out of winter in the UK, as we fell more energetic in lighter months than we do in winter months...,..Phew!
Thanks - didn't know about that, though probably should have, considering one of my daughters is an optometrist 🤣 Anything that makes me feel more energetic in the winter is a good thing...!! 🤣🤣
If your fittings have power factor correcting capacitors and you don't remove them they will NOT get any power saving. I bought dozens of similar tubes from TLC and several months later measured their consumption and found it was no lower. Challenging the claims on their web site TLC (after a bit of wrangling) sent their expert to my workshop and he confirmed my findings. It then took several emails to get their web site changed to reflect this issue which eventually they did.
Interesting! I mainly bought these down to the fact that Screwfix didn't have any fluorescents and I thought they were worth a try, rather than specifically on the energy consumption. Cheers, Chris
City electrical have a limited stock of old style tubes
Worth knowing. Thanks for the heads up.
Did this so many years ago
This is the problem with all leds, they glare but fail to put the light down into the surface.
Just look at streetlights and see the dark patches between them compared to the previous sodium lights.
For some time a road near me had LEDs on one side and sodium on the other, the difference and poor performance of the LEDs was very obvious.
Superior longevity of LEDs is a myth.
all the lights in my garage are led, i use daylight tubes
Yes, I may try a couple of daylight (6000K) at some point. Cheers, Chris
Luckily I picked up a stock of fluorescent tubes from a diy store who were giving them away for free.
Nice one 👍
The life of most Most LED's is massively exaggerated and their quality varies enormously as does their light output (As you have found in this experiment). It's vital to check the light output is suitable for your needs as two LED's with the same power rating can have light output that varies as much as 50%. Fluorescent tubes will outlast LED's by many years, possibly even decades, the ones in my garage have been in for 35 years. And don't install light fittings with onboard LED's (As opposed to using loose LED bulbs) as when the LED's die - which they inevitably will far sooner than you expect - you will require a new fitting to be installed (With possibly a bill from an electrician too) not just a change of bulb
Totally agree with your comment about integrated / onboard LEDs, but especially so if you’re buying an expensive fixture, per my comment to Firebrand55. Cheers, Chris
The led's point down because the led lamp is polarity conscious turn it the other way it won't work
Hi, I'm open to being proved wrong, but I'm not sure that's the case, as there's nothing in the instructions to suggest that, and it would surely lead to a lot of customer returns..? I'll give it a try when I get a chance and report back.
Better than counting sheep, zzzz
🤣🤣
Fluorescents don't age well. LED's age better. Also better to take the ballast out and rewire without ballast or starter replacement as saves a few watts. Got some cheap LED replacements in my kitchen and took electronic ballasts out been in a few years now without a problem and much better instant start.
What happiness you have no starter mine is a single strip light just asking
Jeez! 18 minutes on replacing a fluorescent tube. I did two of these the other day, and the whole job including reading the instructions, took less than 10. They're definitely brighter, massively so.
Thanks for the feedback. If I'd have wanted to make a video that only lasted as long as it took me to actually swap the two tubes, it would only have lasted 3 minutes..... what took you so long ....?😧
Madness. Replace the fitting with an LED one, and then you know it will work.
I'm afraid I disagree - it depends on your circumstances. Fine if you're comfortable doing a bit of electrical work yourself (done plenty of it myself), but if you have to pay a sparky to fit a new batten, you're talking anywhere from £50 to £100+, plus the cost of the batten (min. £40 to get 6000+ lumens based on Screwfix today). If you're unsure whether it will be suitable for your existing fitting, fine, then take advice. But each to their own. Cheers
@handyman-at-home While, to some extent, I agree. Manufacturers won't continue to make LED tubes when LED fittings are ready available. I used to work in the trade. Bite the bullet and replace your fitting
@@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway Its no different to one of the newer counterparts failing since you have to get a whole new unit as they are non serviceable and for most people it mean getting an electrician in to basically change a bulb. Not to mention the environmental consequences.
This is more the way forward imho.
@jsouto77 100% there is. Fluorescent fitting is date by design, and so will the LED replacement tubes. Plus, an LED fitting will offer a higher lumens. It isn't my money that will be wasted
@@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway Why is it?...It's a body that you fit a bulb into. just like every other build that was replaced with LED around the house. I make my own lighting from led strips and I can achieve Lumens parity with these LED Battens in a far more elegant and sustainable way.
I've worked in the lighting industry for decades. It's a complete waste of time taking light meter readings in a situation where natural daylight can influence your light meter. Natural light levels are constantly changing and can range all the way up to over 50,000 lux on a very bright day, but vary by thousands of lux as clouds pass over, and the time of day can make a difference too as the earth rotates. The iris in our eyes automatically opens and closes so we don't often notice the difference. If you have 8000 lux on your workbench, it's probable that 7750 is from daylight and 250 comes from your light fitting. Also, the light meter software for mobile phones is notoriously inaccurate. It can be used for comparative purposes, but not to get an accurate figure.
Hi, and thanks for the feedback. Agreed - it was a real newbie error taking the readings with so much daylight coming through the window🤦♂️. My intention was to try and give a simple comparison between the old fluorescents and the new LEDs, but clearly it's a lot more involved than that. Have been doing a bit more experimenting with the light meter app and have found it's very variable - sometimes it's almost spot on, and sometimes it's a million miles (or lux!) out. Been looking at some of the cheap(er) light meters on Amazon and am not convinced that they're a great deal better to be honest - any recommendations? Cheers, Chris
@@handyman-at-home Hi, like everything, you get what you pay for. I use a Hagner EC1 meter, but they're difficult to source, and are about £350. Too much to pay for occasional use. I wouldn't look at anything under £100. The other issue is that they all (despite the manufacturer's claims otherwise) drift in their calibration over time. I've seen meters that were 30% off after a few years. But, it's impossible to determine the accuracy and recalibrate without access to very sophisticated lab equipment. Your basic finding that LED tubes are not as bright as the fluorescents they're replace is spot on. Some might find they're brighter than the old lamps they take out because fluorescent lamps decline in light output over time. A rule of thumb figure is 30% drop in output after 20,000 hours burning. But older tubes will give out far less. I hope that helps.
As I see it, you're comparing a 22 watt tube with a 58 watt tube, the result is going to be obvious, it's not rocket science.
I'd be concerned buying lighting from Screwfix.
Everything i ever got from them broke within 3 years. Expensive when its a whole commercial unit full of led ceiling panels, or apartments with downlights.
Having to redo a whole job every few years adds up....and trashes your reputation
The main thing I've had a problem with is door locks. Had to return a couple because in one case it'd been badly assembled, and the other was missing a couple of parts. (I suspect what happens is that people return stuff that get's put back into stock without anyone checking it first). The one thing I will say is that I've never had a problem getting a refund or exchange. Cheers
I don't think it's Screwfix (Although they are a lesser store since B&Q bought them) but products in general today. The drive for cost reduction which we all take advantage of means almost all products are worse than they were twenty years ago when advances in technology should be making them better.
💯Couldn't agree more. Whenever you buy something that comes with screws included, they are inevitably soft as ***t and chew up instantly you try to use them e.g. light fittings, curtain rails etc etc. Contrast that with a 50+ year wooden cabinet that I took down for someone the other day. Solid brass screws, in as good a condition as the day it was made. OK, they were slotted head, which can be more of a pain than Posidrive, but perfectly serviceable to reuse for another 50 years. Compared to the cheap stuff which just goes straight into my recycle scrap bin. "... Progress ..."
Omg nearly 18 minutes to change 2 LED tubes. Lol
😂😂😂
It takes me all day. Including the trip to the shops, several days...
🤣👍
You talk to much.get on with it.
Almost 20 minutes of waffle to explain 5 minutes work !
Horse to water and all that ....