The King James Bible Debate - August 14, 2021
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
- On August 14th, 2021, Nathan Cravatt accepted a challenge by Cody Zorn to debate Mitch Cannup on the King James Only Position at Bible Missionary Baptist Church in Rockwell, NC. The Format was decided and 3 questions, written by Cody and Mitch, were proposed and accepted by Nathan. This is the full debate and Q&A session. Nothing was edited out.
Special thanks to @joshchapmonfilms for lending his talents on this project.
I learned of your channel through Mark Ward. Brother Nathan, you did a good job trying to stick to the point. I commend you on your self restraint. There were so many false/misleading/mis-interpreted statements made and veiled swipes at your spirituality....you demonstrated God's gift of self control to not address them when you had a chance. Your opponent seems sincere. But that doesn't make him right...even if "I've been doing this for 40+ years, bless God!"
I was born, raised and served in the KJO culture. I'm thankful for clearer vision over the last multiple years. I can appreciate your comments about the struggle internally when you realize that the old arguments don't stand up to scrutiny.
Please continue to pursue these topics in genuine humility and respect. As you all know, those still holding them are often sincere and trusting in them to be faithful.
You likely wont convince the leaders/fringe of anything, so don't feel like you have to focus on them.
Thank you, you have a new subscriber.
You were never saved to begin with. So what satanic version do you claim?
You have religion not the spirit of truth.
Came here from the dividing line. You've earned a subscriber brother. Very well done and I applaud you for the patience and confidence in which you spoke. "HAYMEN"!!!!
I came here after watching the Dividing Line. I'm betting you'll notice a spike in subs now.
Welcome!!!
Looking forward to listening to the interview!
Same
Same!
Hahaha reason I’m here 😆
Amazing presentation of the gospel Nathan. Excellent, excellent job. I’ve been in the IFB my entire life, but in the last year my eyes have been truly, thankfully opened and when I found your RFP family…. I haven’t stopped consuming all the content. I’ve felt so understood, seen and not alone from listening to yalls podcast and all the other ones in the RFP family. I cannot tell y’all how truly thankful I am. Thank y’all so so much and keep the awesome content coming!
I was a former IFB but the IFB is not the standard. The KJV is the standard!
I don't attend 501C3 pagan buildings which all IFB churches are including about 99 percent of all these so called modern churches.
Acts 7:48, the most High deelleth not in pagan temples.
Nathan might be younger, but he debated like a king👑
Why have the internet when you can make up your own history?🤷♂️
Yea I want to make up my own history so I end up King of the United States....Well that wouldn't be any worse then Biden.......Now I got my wheels turning lol.
I found that amusing. he thinks the internet is bad and yet he is on the internet currently and will be God willing in the future. 🤦🏻♂️
I was surprised by that
Outrageous claims like in the 1st century AD 2% of the world spoke Greek or
Modern English speakers use around 900 different words are the kind of nonsense one could normally only find online...
Or your own facts...
At 1:15 (an hour, 15 minutes in) Brother Mitch goes into the inspiration of chapter and verse numbering. I guess numerology is no longer cultic when you re-name it numerics. I'm afraid that by his logic, God FAILED to preserve his word UNTIL 1611. I say this lovingly as a former KJV only-ist myself.
Luke 4:4
Matt 4:4
Deut 8:3
= 1611 So is this Satanic?
The supporters of the modern perversions still do not have God's perfectly preserved word. They never had God's perfectly preserved word and they never will. " Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." (2 Timothy 3.7)
Luke 4:4
Matt 4:4
Deut 8:3
Zechariah 4:6
= 2017, the year of publishing of the CSB. CSB onlyism? Hmm.
So is this good logic?
No, it's laughable.
This was a fantastic discussion.
One side came to debate the facts; the other came to drum up the base and rally the faithful.
You guys earned a new subscriber today due to this debate. Thanks for doing the hard work to prepare and adequately get your message across.
The world is going to hell in desperation of the Gospel and here we sit arguing about translations. 😂
Debate summary: KJV position- Circular reasoning and rallying the crowd with the KJV for the KJV position. Non KJV position- Direct answers using manuscript evidence with little to no crowd rallying.
You almost sound surprised.
Glad to see this posted. Rockwell is not far from my house. I had something in Hickory that night, but I might have foregone that to come to this. It's interesting that the pastor here says to go express our opinion elsewhere, but on their RUclips posting of this asks that we not express our opinions elsewhere - then closes their comment section. I'll listen through this and express my opinion here if that's alright.
BTW, great discussion with James White on the DL last night.
Am listening to this for the first time, 2 years after it happened. I was also listening to back issues of the podcast on my app and accidentally happened on the podcast that was done after this debate. Will be saving this debate to listen to again! Thank you, Nathan and other RFP podcasters for all that you do!!! It is much appreciated!❤
I was involved in Ruckmanism for 10 years, I'm thankful you be out of it now.
He is wrong about alot of things but not the book.
@@frustratedmajority851 AMEN!
Some things that bothered me was. Mitch said if you are not a KJV only person you are not saved. So every Christian before 1611 including Paul, John, and Peter were not saved. I searched and searched in the bible where Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life and no man cometh unto the Father but by Me and the King James Bible and I couldn't find it.
Exactly
Naw that's not what he means and you know it lol.
He saying he doubts anyone's salvation who can look at the evidence and choose 200+ new versions over the KJV... as do I. It shows serious spiritual blindness and lack of understanding... which means something is VERY wrong with them.
Might be as innocent as ignorance to the facts... but if you actually look at the evidence and HONESTLY study the issue out for a few months... and can't see why the KJV is Gods word in English... then you have serious serious issues going on.
I'm not talking about a few youtube videos... I'm talking about REALLY studying this issue out... which very few people do.
39:30 "And I didn't get my truth from Peter Ruckman. I got it from Oliver B Green!" LOL!!!
Maybe try getting truth from Jesus for once?
He SOUNDS a bit like Ruckman
He also reminds me of Sam Gipp 😱🤣
😅
I heard about this too from the Dividing Line. Funny though, when I tried to listen to this debate on Bible Missionary Baptist’s RUclips channel, they mute out the opposing arguments and speaker completely. You see him speaking with no audio. I was mind blown too, because their comments are turned off.
Shalom Nathan from the Philippines islands ... I enjoyed the debate ... Praying you helped some people to be free from a kind of legalism keeping their minds from the many bible resourdes of our time. -Jeremiah
Thank you, Jeremiah!
Saying 'heymen' after each point, doesn't make it fact.
After being out of the IFB for a while, all it sounds like is confused seagulls.
also saying 'Bless God' so flippantly is irresponsible. I believe it's used in vain far too often. and I've heard it all my life.
John Knox preached the Coronation of King James.
That's John Knox the great calvinist reformer that had Mary exiled from Scotland.
Mary AKA Mary Stuart. The mother of James Stuart. AKA King James I and VI..
Nathan, I just listened to you on The Dividing Line, and am about to listen to the full debate in a moment. Thank you and keep up the good work.
only 20 % of the world speaks English, not 90%. There is so much error, that it negates any attempt at clarity and coherency. Wow, this is difficult to endure. However, Nathan did a great job, both in debate and composure.
After he said that, I immediately doubted every statistic and historical fact he threw out there.
Really? Your saying only 20% of the world understands English as a first or second language? Where do you get your stats from?
🤔 Chupp ⁉️ Now you have me curious. Let's see the numbers, please?
@@davidchupp4460 it’s called research
@@rayhchc6451 I typically don’t do research for others.
2nd time sitting through this...watching this man being intellectually lampooned is bad enough...but watching him do it in the name of Christianity is downright painful. When ignorance becomes a virtue, it's time to reevaluate one's position.
When Mitch said: "We're in the last generation; there ain't gonna be another one.", I knew right then and there that he is date-setting/time-framing false teacher.
Like Jim Jones.
You blind ??
The last generation always skips to the next one once the previous generation passes away.
@@1MarmadukeFan
That makes no sense.
@@BornAgain490 I think what theymeant was
One generation claims to be the last
Then they pass on and the following generation makes the same claim....
I’ve always been “kjv only”…it’s how I was raised. But for years I’ve been researching on my own and this discussion kind of really helped me settle that I’m not “kjv only” but I’m personally “kjv preferred.” Meaning I prefer the kjv but do not believe or force it as the only one usable. I appreciate you entering the lions den here to share your side and you did it well. I believe the other side shouted just because that’s all they know to do…you brought facts and presented viable arguments. Well done.
Thank you, James!
Mitch: -And every translator a calvanist!
Me, a calvanist: 👁️👄👁️❗
*Calvinist
What on earth has naming cities got to do with bible preservation? This guy is nuts!
That’s part of the KJVO smoke screen.
“If ya can’t dazzle them w/ a solid argument, overwhelm them w/irrelevancy!”
Here's why the KJVO position doesn't work:
1. Pick a Bible version. Go ahead, pick a version, any version.
2. Develop an entire theology based on a reading developed from the English translation you have selected.
3. Argue that the team of translators were inspired by God to make the correct selections from the manuscripts and that they were perfect in their particular English rendering of the text.
4. Argue that the other versions are Satanic wherever they disagree with your theology. Which, obviously, they must be, right? Otherwise they would fall in line with your doctrine.
5. Attribute your text to an incorruptible line of manuscripts. Oversimplify when necessary, and make it overly complicated wherever necessary. Whatever it takes to garner an emotional response in favor of your selected text.
This set of steps can be used to defend whichever Bible version you so choose. The problem is that KJVO have no response to this. For instance, if a German Lutheran were to approach them with a 1545 German Luther Bible and say that every umlaut and every eszet in his book is perfect and their King James comes from a Satanic lineage, neither of them could get anywhere in a debate except arguing from their respective faith-based positions and utilizing continuing appeals to emotion. The King James Onlyist would say, "well my Bible has 400 years of excellence!" And the Lutheran would respond with, "well my Bible is the most widely distributed after the invention of the printing press before the Reformation. Therefore, it is the cause of the Reformation. Therefore it is the perfect word of God." And so on..
This is a profound and accurate point!
Your overlooking facts that make a total difference.
The KJB has numerous qualities that NO other versions can compare.
1. The Antiochian line of ms
2. The fruit of the KJB. No other Bible has been blessed by God and used as much as the KJB. The glorious past of England Queen Victoria "That book (KJB) accounts for the Supremacy of England". In The USA the Lord used it to bring in great revivals , many souls saved and lives changed putting the USA at the top of the game. There is even a documentary on the KJB "The Book that changed the world". Also see "Final Authority" by Bill Grady.
What did the new "bibles' produce? Abortion, homo's, getting God and the Bible out of schools, school shootings, transgender etc....
3. Numerical phenomenon. Bro Mitch touched on it in the debate. Just get a book on Bible numbers. This stuff does not work with the other versions because they change the verse numbers and words.
Luke 4:4
Matt 4:4
Det 8:3
= 1611
Get the book "Concealed From Christians For the Glory of God"
by G Jon Rov
Peter Ruckmans book Bible Numbers
had more point but this will suffice
@@WordAboveAllWhat a stupid argument. Recommending heretic Peter Ruckman you lose all credibility. Of course God has used the KJV a lot longer than other translations. It has been around for 400 years. If it was the NASB, ESV NLT or NIV.instead of the KJV. He would have used them instead . In fact he is using them and blessing them now to bring many to Christ. So much for the myth of KJV only heresy. Your arguments about, transgender, homosexuality, mass shootings etc nothing to do with the modern more accurate translations. But the heart of man which is wicked and deceitful. Also the cults that deny the deity of Christ like the Mormons, Christian Scientist, Jehovah Witnesses before they used their own NWT. All used the KJV to teach their heresies. So much for the "good fruit" of the KJV. Also slavery and racism anti semitism.all these evil things. Justified by self righteous hypocrites using the KJV. So much for the good fruit. Organised crime and massed shootings segregation, were rife long before there was modern translations. When the KJV was the main translation. So much for the good fruit of the KJV. Also the KJV only cult was started by a Seventh Day Adventist cultist. A cult based on the false teachings of Ellen G White. Started by a false prophecy about the second coming of Christ. The KJV was used to bring this false prophecy. Also the KJV translators knew their work was not perfect. They said that even the meanest translation was still the word of God. What makes the KJV only cult think they know better. Just their pride and arrogance and ignorance. As for fruit I have been told by the lunatic fringe of this insane cult. That I am going to hell because I am reading the devil's Bible. My faith in the finished work of Christ who paid the price for my sin is irrelevant to these deceivers, because I am reading the wrong Bible. The hatred of Steven Anderson, the outrageous lies of Gail Riplinger. Her so called acrostic algebra, and Mike Hoggard's numerology the spirit of divination or witchcraft. The insanity of Gene Kim who masquerades as a "real Bible believer". Just as Satan masquerades as an angel of light. Will Kinney who is incapable of rational thought. Calling you a Bible agnostic if you disagree with him. But being the hypocrite he is. Cannot tell you which edition of the KJV which all differ is the perfect translation. What a Bible agnostic. David W Daniels conspiracy theorist, and full double standards like all KJV only cultists. Sam Gipp who does mental gymnastics to try and justify the mistranslation of Easter, in his so called answer book. Who said that a Russian must learn English to have the true word of God. Not any old English but the archaic English of the KJV. This cult has left sanity behind. Jesus said It is by their fruit you will know them. Not what translation of scripture you read. The fruit of the KJV only cult, is absolutely rotten. As has been said Satan does not need atheists he has the KJV only cult spreading his deceptions.
So, you believe God gave his word in the original autographs only and had no role in the preservation of his word?
@@igregmart Fallible men wrote the Bible and all of its "original manuscripts."
Thanks to the Dividing Line I found this great debate. Love the work you do brother. Keep it up!
Much appreciated!
I think the thing that bothered me the most out of this whole debate was at 2:42:00 . It is where Mitch is asked if truth was added to the Bible in 1551 when the chapter and verse divisions were added since he stated earlier in the debate that he believed those divisions were inspired by God. The person asked him that yes-or-no question three times, and Mitch could NEVER answer the question. There were a lot of things in Mitch's "argument" that bothered me with how objectively false he was, but that may have been the most annoying. 😂
Nathan, I was really impressed with how you engaged with these people. It was more than obvious that you weren’t in it to win some debate-even though you did hands down-but that your heart was truly about helping these people. And you most certainly did by demonstrating to them the truth about King James Onlyism.
What was especially powerful is that you did this with grace and kindness and love.
The Spirit was indeed with you.
Very Nicely done.
It won’t return void.
Amen
No nathan came far from winning any debate he clearly denied the true word of GOD it plain and simple get biblical the ild king James says plainly I dont understand how people say they have discernment and they r anointed but they have a counterfeit knock off Bible in there hand the old king James says planly Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.Deuteronomy 4:2 (KJV) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.Proverbs 30:5-6 (KJV) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.Revelation 19:13 (KJV) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.and It goes in one ear and out the other the 10 commandments say do not bare false witness well ur bunk bibles are false witness they have been rewrite by people who do not have authority do do so nkjv esv niv all of them r counterfeit every last one old king James is the true word of GOD.
The Pro KJ only guy was destroyed in this. He consistently defends positions by character association/assassination and emotional appeals. He also does a lot of Gish Gallop. Look that debate tactic up. Never heard of Nathan but he clearly won this one.
Thats because Mitch used Bible. Shows your pretty ignorant in this area.
Hah, I am reformed and Calvinistic and yet it is clear that Mitch won.
@@igregmartAnd does your gospel require the KJV? Because that isn't reformed at all. That's heretical, and that's what he was promoting.
The main thing I take away from this debate is honestly how utterly weak the KJVO position is
I guess any "translation" is good for you? If ANY translation is good or has some truth in them, then what is your final authority? Where do you find absolute truth? Only ONE translation can be the words of God! Is it just that hard to say thee, thou, thine and sayest?
@@TheGreatPanicker I uh... never said any of that. I literally only said the debate showed how weak the KJVO position is...
Interestingly the first two words you said, "I guess", were the most accurate part of your comment... since it was 100% pure conjecture on your part.
@@agoodtheory never fails. "Only one translation ARGEHEHEHEH!"
It is very weak but I do have some sympathy for the TR position some of their arguments are good but they are more graceful yet I still think it fails as well.
If the KJB debater had been one of the big guns like Gipp, Riplinger, David Brown or Wlliam Grady the result would have been different. New versions weaken doctrinal passages or alter them to teach a denominational/ personal teaching
I tell you what, selah.....my hairs stood up when Nathan stood in this den with poise and sincerity I am so grateful for this information to open my eyes praise God brothers
This is great. I thought Mr. Zorn did a good job moderating also.
Botïhiiéee tree lei is aliklplll
“I’m not a Protestant… I’m a Baptist!”…. 😳
“Do you think people would name 2 states after him if his father was a perv?”…
1: pretty sure we were still under England’s monarchy at that time.. so yea it’s entirely possible
2: we don’t conclude infallibility based on the character of an English King
It’s pretty clear history is not his strongest subject.
It really hurt my head listening to some of Brother Mitch's arguments. oh my goodness.
I am ex navy stationed in Scotland I stood in the room King James was born. From what i gathered from the locals He really wasn't much of a Christian. He just happened to be King when they translated the Bible and as King head of the church so He had to authorize it. He had nothing to do with the translation.
@@Trex-zm9gh INTERESTING!!!!
“Hey-man”…
A friendly reminder that King James, King Charles, and the translators of the Authorized Version (like Lancelot Andrewes) were good, God-fearing ANGLICANS 😉
Neither King James or Charles had ANYTHING to do w/the translation process
I’m convinced that if you disguised an atheist or heretic, made him put on a suit and tie, speak with that thick “haaymen”-accent and let him spout the most heretical things about Christology, the Trinity etc, those “haaymens” would come either way.
I feel as a person that loves and was brought up on the KJV. Maybe some of these arguments could come down a notch or 2 if people just read the translators to the readers. It's almost as if the KJV only are simply not interested.
well yes, that's why it's king James ONLY
1:30 no, Jesus isn't responsible for the damnation of anyone. Man is responsible for his own damnation. God however is graceful in that He elects some unto salvation. No one gets injustice. Some get justice, others get grace.
Hopefully he picks me for election.
but i must say, the "recovering fundy" guy is really brave, his first time debating officially, smooth in the middle of this strong KJO IFB group... he grew up in the movement, but that may even have made it harder.... on the 1-10 scale, he gets a 10 for courage... :-))
Hahaha! Courage for sounding foolish!
I'm eight minutes in and the audio is MUCH better than the other stream.
Amen.
HAYMAN!
Saw your interview at A&O, and now this great debate!
This debate SHOULD be the last nail in the coffin of KJVO. Well… maybe not the last nail. That’s already be driven. Nathan just showed up and polished the aforementioned coffin to a high shine, lowered it gently 6 foot into the grave and gracefully filled the hole with cement.
Good job!👍
The young guy lost just from a debate perspective.
Dr James White put the final nail in KJV onlyism
@@aaronnichols9444 James white raises points but their not knock out points. Their decent blows, but he has his own issues as a 5 point calvinist. A KO arguement which nobody uses is that King James was a 33 degree mason thus u have a Masonic King approving a bible which the Free Masons give to all Christians who join their lodge. Thats a significant red flag that should call the question to end KJV onlyism because of the "authority" and spirit of authority that commissioned the work....besides all the other issues.
Yeah! Great job bashing God’s word boys! Yippieeeeee!!!!
@@johndisalvo6283 prove that statement through God's word. GOD'S Word is actually Jesus Christ...made flesh. U do realize the KJV 1611 is not a pure translation and also was commissioned by a masonic King? U know this right? And further more 7 years of being translated from the high Anglican, calvinist and compromiser commission? Whats wrong with the 397 AD Council of Carthage that approved th cannon? Ur sentice slurs have no bibical bases
The circles that Mitch goes in just wasted time that he could have spent presenting an argument for the KJO stance. It's a shame he wasted the opportunity.
IF he succeeded at EFFECTIVELY presenting his argument, he’d be the first.
I’m adding this to a collection of SIX other debates that ended w/a LOT of egg on the face of KJ debater(s)
One came to preach and one came to teach.
Jesus was a teacher too. Preaching is great, but in a debate it's about facts.
Preaching is teaching and teaching is preaching.
Your statement is conceptually correct. Where the difference lies is in the Anointing of " The Holy Spirit" at the moment for the present occasion. @@igregmart
Mitch Canupp reminds me of a less intellectual William Jennings Bryan at the Scopes Trial when he appealed to how the verdict would affect Christian school children rather than argue the merits of the case.
I love how the cowards at the Missionary Baptist Church turned off comments to the video they posted on the debate. The administrators of their channel even requested in all caps for people not to express opinions of the debate on other videos. They know it was a terrible performance by their champion and don't want to be reminded of it.
Clearly a one-sided debate which exposed the cultish nature of the KJonly movement.
I false history lecture and a well reasoned case for preservation. Brother Nathan did great Mitch presented a false history full of conspiracies and accused men of things they didn't do. Its frustrating because I always think maybe they will have a good case this time I like to be challenged but sadly nope lol. I don't like when I get fooled I am hard on myself and I was fooled into KJV Onlyism but when I started asking questions the cultish nature reared its ugly head. So I am a minority but I think the KJV is as bad as the Passion its riddled with errors and added words and verses.
You sound so foolish those who fight against the KJV! Mr. Nathan speaks out of both sides of his mouth. He said the Word of God is perfect but what Word of God is HE referring to? The originals we can't even see? So he uses on a regular basis many corrupted modern versions and we are to trust Mr. Nate? Mr. NATE is a name- caller and a mixed - up dude!
Listened again today. In the last answer Bro Cannup gave he stated "God put things in there [KJV] to test our faith". Couldn't the same argument be made - God gave us many accurate translations to test our faith?
Mitch’s arguments are pure rhetoric and emotional appeals.
Yep
That’s exactly what I was think the whole time. He wasn’t give any authentic information or arguments, just preaching to pump up his crowd that believes the same thing as him with some manipulation tactics thrown in.
Brother Mitch gave Bible. Thats something your not used to getting.
No. He spitting facts... and scripture!
Brother Mitch gave scripture and facts@@DonaldDouglasJr
I appreciate the debate discipline of both sides. Brothers Mitch and Nathan both conducted themselves well. The amens from the congregation are expected in a Missionary Baptist Church. My Papaw was a Missionary Baptist Church preacher in Kentucky, planting little churches in isolated hollows all over the place. There are some differences between them and other IFB breeds, but there are a lot of similarities as well.
The strict KJO position is simply not defensible. I certainly appreciate the place the KJV has had in the English Reformation, but there's no reason to stick to it alone today. We do need reliable translations in every language and I firmly believe that it follows the pattern of Pentecost in the undoing of the Tower of Babel to do so. The autographs are gone so that we don't worship the paper and the ink, and the copies with discernable errors so that we are forced to pay attention to the meaning of Scripture so that we worship the One who is revealed therein. We know what the errors are and the copies are incredibly faithful. We can praise God that we have faithful English translations, as well as many translations in other languages, and that we have an amazing level of certainty as to what the autographs said. This Word was meant to go out, not stay in. It's worth having people in the church who can understand the original languages and help the rest of us to understand our translations better. It does require a level of trust, but we also have people who can hold accountable those who would distort the original languages. This is the place of the Scriptures in our active discussions to understand them better so that we know God to the fullest extent possible.
Brother Nathan stayed on topic Mitch was all over the place his history is faulty, no one badmouthed king james yet he went on about that but turned around and attacked All sorts of people with untrue facts taken out of context.
Translating from any language to another is not a black and white issue!! Well done, Nathan.
I am looking in my NKJV... the word "yet" in John 7:8 that Brother Mitch says is not in modern translations IS in mine....God's name in 1 Timothy 3:16 is in my NKJV. The Trinity is in my NKJV in 1 John 5:7.....
Those are all textual differences between the KJV and other modern versions
The NKJV is based upon the same original language texts as the KJV was...
Yeah NKJV is based on TR mostly with one or two other sources and has footnotes about what the critical text differences are. Many KJV only people incorrectly bash the NKJV. Reading the NKJV has changed me, transformed me, and brought me closer to God.
I was taught for years that the NKJV was not translated from the TR. It turns out that was a lie. I read the NKJV daily now.
@@customstoryteller~ Get your NKJV "bible" and read page eleven of the Dedication, now tell me again its the same as the TR, it's clearly right there in black & white that its not.
@@boldasalion6436 Tried to investigate your accusation and I have no idea what you’re talking about. I suspect that makes two of us. 🤷♂️
Poor Nathan.
Grossly outnumbered…
Opponent has home field advantage…
Fortunately since a debate is about the truth, and YOU brought it - THE truth. Your opponent operated like Prosecutor Binger in the Rittenhouse trial.
Outnumbered? He debated one man
"Baptist's have never been Protestant"....what?
"90% of the world speaks English."
WHAT?!?!
As a second language he may not be wrong? He did NOT say they spoke ONLY English. There is no more widespread and important language in the world today and probably for about the last century.
Duh, do you not realize that in all the continents of the civilized world English is taught alongside the 1st language of all modernized countries! You did not know that?
Saw you on A&O. Good job on the debate! It's weird how some people put their trust in a specific english translation of the Bible... And when Mitch began babbling about 666 in the chapters and verses in the KJV I just had to laugh 🤣 May God bless you and your ministry
Bro, the most unbelievable thing in this is when you said you're 45. I assumed you were my age (35).
You know a debate is good when it can keep you rivited for over 3 hours straight. If I were there I would have asked the question(s): What is Koine Greek and why do you think the Holy Spirit inspired the authors to write (most) of the original New Testament books in that language?
Read Dr James White’s “The King James Controversy”
Mitch is a great politician, ignore the fact and drum up emotion. I believe he knows the truth about this topic and is too hardheaded to admit it.
He comes off like he's a bit of both. He really is that stupid, but he's also being deceitful.
At 1:16:05, I think I'm going to have a permanent scar in my forehead from the facepalm I just gave myself...
LOL I had to go back and listen after reading your comment. Immediately after at 1:16:19 he says that "the number system 1-10 is a miracle of God Almighty"...now I wonder if Mitch is a proponent of the Metric system as inspired and the Imperial system is a perversion? But the Metric system is UN-American so it can't be of God, can it? Oh the dilemma!
I have used only the KJV for 20 years, but I have been exploring this issue lately. The KJV is still currently my first choice but Nathan gets the nod in this debate from me and his points were very helpful. Mitch's arguments were unimpressive, and that is being nice.
I am like you. Grew up KJV ONLY but now KJV PREFERRED.
There should be no yelling, clapping, etc during debate. It taints the debate emotionally rather than educationally.
1:29:00
Nathan continues to misrepresent his position.
He even read it...
Gen 6
"Noah was perfect IN HIS GENERATIONS..."
And
"Noah was a JUST man..."
Nathan builds straw man arguments and obviously ignores the jesuit influence over casting doubt over the corrupted manuscripts.
He also uses language in line with Calvanism... which isn't doctrinal.
I sat in my living room and intending to watch 20 mins or so of this, before i knew it, i was going on hour number 3 and i could have stayed for another 3!
Well done to both of you. I do believe the King James Bible is more accurate and is my personal preference... However, to say that another sinner can not be saved by reading another version or translation is simply ridiculous.
Again, thanks to both participants for a lovely debate.
I agree if you approach the Bible with a pure heart and honestly seeking God you can get saved and I'm a kjb believer I'm a Bible believer
Great job, Nathan! You did a masterful job!
I’m not sure if this has been mentioned yet in the comments, but I always want to hear someone ask in one of these debates, “If the KJV is the only true version of scripture, what do the poor people do in other countries who don’t speak or read English? How can Russians be saved? Or the Chinese? Why do we have the Bible translated into their own languages if only the KJV is acceptable?” This argument is ridiculous.
I've been at a King James Only church since I became a believer. My heart was always convicted about this since I do love the version and would not stop using it. However, ONLY using it has always seemed wrong. Like idolatry towards an object. I never questioned anything because I thought I was alone in this. I love to read a lot and study the Bible. The more I look online, the more I am convinced that I've been told lies. Hearing this debate makes me understand that the KJV Only position seems to be entirely, if not mostly, emotionally/tradition driven. I'm looking for true answers and only wish to follow the Lord's Word to the best of my ability. I do not know exactly what to do. Where should I go for resources and help?
King James Bible Research Counsel.
I would recommend reading "The king James only controversy" by James White.
I wouldn't bother with anything from James White re biblical scholarship. He has been soundly refuted by better Traditional Text scholars. I have White's book... It's rubbish. @@phaxad
Brother many people in this debate are arguing emotionally rather than studying to show themselves approved. If you're serious about getting to the bottom of the subject get yourself a copy of David Otis Fuller's - Which Bible? I've read many books on this subject and spent thousands of hours studying this out. Fuller's book is to be regarded as a primer on this subject.
@@phaxad ~ I also 2nd petergrace's recommendation to study this issue and get David O. Fullers book. Also Thomas Ross' slides on the King James Bible are astounding, probably the best research I've seen that clearly shows the historcity of God's Word, simply amazing.
It seems like Bro Mitch returns to the podium mad after Bro. Nathan's first seven minutes on the first question. Almost like he unconsciously recognizes that he's got to do something to stop the bloodbath... that he's losing.... that it's going to be a long 3 hours.
Dude was probably so delusional that he thought he won the debate in a slam dunk.
Funny that the gentleman points out that 'Jehovah' (The Tetragrammaton: YHWH) is preserved 7 times in the KJV, and think it is a great thing.
What he fails to mention is that the Hebrew Text of the OT contains the Tetragrammaton 6826 times.... but yay... the KJV got it right 7 times...
One side brought a pep talk and emotional arguments. The other side was respectful, and well prepared.
This again showed how hollow the position of KJV onlyism truly is.
It's been my argument since I've known the Name of Yahweh. As you rightly point out, the Name above all names has been knowingly substituted by an English title that can never be applied to the Almighty Creator of all things!
Exo 3:15 declares that His Name is a memorial to ALL generations and the KJV is just another translation that has participated in making people "forget" His Name:
"How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? But they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, who plot to cause My people to FORGET MY NAME by their dreams which they tell, each one to his neighbor, as their fathers have FORGOTTEN MY NAME for LORD*." (Jer 23:27)
*Baal - Lord
You should not add to or take away from God's word or your name will be taken out of the book of life!
At 21:02, yes, we believe in the infallibility of the scriptures, but this applies only to the original autographs. Copies and translations represent the originals with varying degrees of accuracy.
At 40:00, he said that he has never found a mistake in the KJV. Hasn't he read the thing? Here are just a few.
At Genesis 36:24, all Hebrew manuscripts and other ancient authorities read "found water," whereas the KJV reads "found mules," following a medieval Jewish commentator. Do you suppose this is a New Age attack on the Word of God for which water is a symbol, replacing it with mules?
In 1 Samuel 2:25, all Hebrew manuscripts read "God," whereas the KJV reads "judge," without capitalization. Do you suppose this is a New Age denial that God will judge sinners?
In Isaiah 19:10, all Hebrew manuscripts read "soul," whereas the KJV reads "fish," following the Roman Catholic Latin Vulgate. Do you suppose this is a New Age attack on the spiritual nature of man, attempting to lower him to a mere animal?
In Hosea 13:9, all Hebrew manuscripts read "he destroyed you," whereas the KJV reads "thou hast destroyed thyself," with no apparent support from any ancient authority. Do you suppose this is a New Age corrupting of the Word of God?
In Malachi 2:12, all Hebrew manuscripts read "aware and awake," whereas the KJV reads "the master and the scholar," following the Roman Catholic Latin Vulgate. Do you suppose this is a New Age attack on spiritual alertness, replacing it with godless scholarship?
Matthew 19:18 - “murder” instead of “kill.” While “murder” is the proper translation at this point, the KJV demonstrates an inconsistency in the way that it translates the word φονευω. This word, used 43 times in the Septuagint including Exodus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 5:17, and 12 times in the New Testament, including Matthew 5:21, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, James 2:11, and Romans 13:9; in each of these cases, the KJV translated the word incorrectly into “kill,” except in Matthew 19:18 where it translated it correctly into “murder.” The Greek word φονευω indeed means to murder, but there is a different word for “kill,” (αποκτεινω), and the KJV translators substituted the word “kill” for “murder” in most occurrences of φονευω, and if this indeed were the proper rendering in Exodus 20:13, “you shall not kill,” then it would be a contradiction in places like Numbers 31:17 that states: “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately.”
Revelation 16:5 - the KJV inserts the words “and shalt be,” which does not appear in any Greek manuscripts, neither in Erasmus of 1522, Stephanus of 1555, not in the Coverdale translation of 1538, nor the Geneva Bible of 1560, but instead, in 1598, Theodore Beza made a conjectural emendation here, assuming that this is what the passage meant to say, and so he inserted it into his Greek text. No one before 1598 had ever seen that before.
2 Peter 1:1 - “of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” instead of “Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.” Using this wording, the KJV makes it seem as though our God and our Savior are two different beings. This is also seen in Titus 2:13.
Exodus 22:28 - “the gods” (plural) instead of “God.” While the word θεους can be used for “magistrates,” or “leaders,” given that the text already speaks of leaders also, the passage is speaking against cursing God, and we have an object lesson in Leviticus 24:10-16 which demonstrates the seriousness of this charge.
John 3:36 - “does not believe,” instead of “obey;” here the Greek is explicit and says “he that is not subject to,” and this is in agreement with John 15:14 where Jesus says “you are my friends if you do what I command you,” and it is consistent with the necessity to repent and submit to Jesus as Lord, but the KJV changes this.
Genesis 22:1 - “tempted” instead of “tested.” The Greek word is πειραζω, which means “to test,” “to proof something.” In a proper context, it could mean “tempt,” but this would contradict James 1:13-14, God tempts no one, and the KJV makes God the tempter along with Satan.
Isaiah 45:7 - “evil” instead of “calamity.” The work κακος has the idea of troublesome, injurious, destructive… As with Genesis 22:1, it CAN mean “evil,” but to use it in that sense in this context would make God the author of sin and evil, and He isn’t the author of either.
Isaiah 33:6 - “wisdom and knowledge” instead of “He (Yahweh),” so it turns “wisdom and knowledge” into God, making them the reason for stability, strength, and salvation - I might add that this is a rather gnostic concept.
Acts 12:4 - “Easter” instead of “Passover.” The word used is πασχα, from which we get the paschal moon, which is the first full moon after the spring equinox. The word “Easter” is derived from the Old English word “Eastre” or “Eostre,” which itself developed prior to 899 AD. The name refers to Eostur-monath, a month of the Germanic calendar named after the goddess “Eostre” of Anglo-Saxon paganism. It was the lunar month equivalent to the Julian calendar month of April where feasts were held in honor of the goddess Eostre - a Spring-like fertility goddess, and it has absolutely no business in Christendom.
Matthew 21:43 - “nation” instead of “people.” The word used is εθνος which literally means “people.” To say “nations” implies a replacement theology that contradicts Luke 22:29-30 and Acts 1:6-7.
Exodus 25:31 - “candlestick” instead of “lampstand.” Lampstands burn oil, candles do not, and there is important imagery being missed in the KJV that has theological implications - see parable in Matthew 25.
1 John 5:7 - here the KJV inserts the phrase “bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” While this phrase (known as the Comma Johanneum) shows up in Scrivner’s 1894 Textus Receptus, therefore it shows up in today’s KJV, it is a very late, and massively minority reading; it only appears in 11 Greek manuscripts, none of them earlier than the 10th century, one of them is a known forgery from about 1520, and 4 of them can be completely dismissed because they date from AFTER the printing of Erasmus’s first edition of the Greek New Testament in 1516. Only 9 of the manuscripts date from before 1611 and therefore could have been used by the KJV translators, and 6 of the manuscripts (including the earliest of these manuscripts) have the Comma listed in the margin in another style of handwriting that came later, in some cases as late as the 17th or 18th centuries. Those manuscripts that do include the Comma as an original reading, they contain the passage in what appears to be a translation from a late recension of the Latin Vulgate.
Ok, wow!
What happened at minute six when he started praying? What’s all that noise?
I think I can answer this question (a month later lol). I was a member of a church very similar to this one - an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. Praise the Lord for getting me out of it! Typical characteristics of an IFBC are such things as loud, emotionally charged preaching (which sometimes resemble pep rallies), Southern Gospel singing, a lot of shouting from the congregation, often due to the crazy antics coming from the pulpit, such as yelling, standing on the lectern, or jumping up and down, coming out from behind the pulpit and running around the church, and lots more (I've seen it all). Regular services had 30-45 minutes of singing prior to about an hour of preaching, but we often had entire services that consisted of nothing but Southern Gospel music for two to three hours.
The sermons are, like I said, loud and lively (they call it hard preaching), and almost always about sin, because almost everything is sin, lol. Some of the preachers incorporate a lot of jokes into the sermons. They are not at all properly exegeted, but rather they will choose a verse or two and take it/them completely out of context and preach a topical message. What I mean is that whatever the preacher wants to preach on, they find a verse or a few verses and try to make them fit whatever topic they want to preach about (eisegesis) instead of drawing out of the text what it actually says (exegesis).
Then there were the special "camp meetings" or "revivals", which were several consecutive services each night for up to a week, with one or more guest preachers. Sometimes there were as many as three services in one day. There was always a special singing group there, of the Southern Gospel variety. To be honest, I actually enjoyed them before I knew any better, or knew there was anything else. I would actually use my vacation for those meetings, lol. I was a new convert back then, so to me it was a blast. But looking back, it was really just a lot of fleshly emotionalism. IFBC's are not very doctrinally deep and I didn't grow spiritually very much at all.
What you heard during the opening prayer was several people in the congregation praying along out loud at the same time. At times it can be very chaotic in a church like that, even bordering on being Pentecostal/Charismatic. Sometimes people would spontaneously stand up in the middle of the sermon and "give a testimony" as if the Holy Spirit was moving them to. I did it myself several times because everyone else was doing it. The "hayymens" like you were hearing in this video, though probably well intentioned, is a normal thing in churches like that. There is more I could say, but already too long. Sorry for the length!
@@ElectofGodfromEternitysounds about right, although I'm my neck of the woods there was never a camp meeting. As far as i know, that's only on the south.. thank goodness
@@se5594 Probably were more prevalent in the South due to warmer weather. Camp meetings used to be held outdoors (thus the camp part) and originated with American Presbyterian minister James McGready in the late 18th century, although I think Charles Finney did some up in New York. I'm in Alabama so there is still some that sort of thing happening in IFB and some Pentecostal circles. Glad you escaped the IFB madness lol
1:39:00 is he saying that God put His breath upon the 1611 KJB in 1644 after Geneva Bible went out of circulation? If so, why did God wait 33 years to breath on it?
"It's like comparing a BMW to a Rolls Royce...there is no comparison"....um, there actually is a comparison between those two as there were with these two.
Mitch brags about not having the internet. Maybe he should get it so he can verify his claims before preaching them.
Shoulda had Steven Anderson involved to make it a PPV event...
Haha!
At 1:37:46, it has been my consistent experience that the loudest opponents of Calvinism understand the least about it - this man is no exception. Listening to a non-Calvinist explaining Calvinism is a lot like listening to a man explaining what labor pains feel like.
True, true.
@Lawrence Stanley
Many female Kidney stone “birthers*” WILL tell you: “I’d rather birth a kid than a ‘stone.” I’ve passed many, birthed 3, one by Csection.
*Birthing is much more painful than passing a ‘stone.
This is hard to listen to... pretty painful...
3:10:36 when two editions of the KJV differ it is God testing our faith, but when a modern version differs from the KJV it's the work of the devil?
The KJVO guy looks like James Earl Jones' white twin
One last question. Why is Mitch's main arguments about baptist's being persecuted? I'm just confused. There are no arguments for the KJV.
What does where the name Carolina came from have to do with anything?
The Gish gallop is a rhetorical technique in which a debater attempts to overwhelm an opponent by excessive number of arguments, without regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments.
this is a weird debate. I wanted to leave a more intelligent and rational comment with evidence for my adjective description for describing such an event. unfortunately, every word I can comprise to create a substantial lick of authority for such a remark escapes me. I'm reaching for bubbles of reliable statements blown by a kjvo child with child things with a wind behind it that gust strong only from the "woah" and affirming "amen" blurted out with unnecessary emphasis from this congregation.
There is one only person debating here. The other is delivering an emotional charged, manipulative sermon. I’m wondering if he has even watched or heard a real debate.
I find it fascinating that he uses atheist/agnostic and Islamic arguments, to defend the KJV.
Exactly. I get the same atheist-type arguments from non-reformed folks as well.
I prefer the KJV because I was saved in an IFB church that loves God and people and that is the Bible I learned from. I have difficulty reading other translations as my Bible because the newer versions don't seem as formal/poetic/romantic/whatever, but that's my preference. I do like to see other versions because sometimes they shed a light on a thought I didn't catch in the KJV. I don't see/hear as many people memorizing other version's verses like I do from the KJV and am uncertain if that is a bias from limited exposure to others, a generational thing where less people memorize scripture overall, or something else.
My question would be, if KJV ONLY preachers believe it is truly inspired, why don't they just get up, read it, and then sit down? What could they add or expound that would improve it's effect on people? Why expound and how far can you expound before you're adding or diminishing from God's word?
Finally, thanks to those who conducted and participated to this debate. Most KJV IFB's would never allow this without running you out and possibly tarring/feathering Nathan.
I think that if they were a bit more respectful, they wouldn’t call modern translations perversions, but a new type of Bible commentary.
I got my answer. When asked what version was God's word, the young man could not name ONE version that was the closet. So my question is, how many new versions of the Bible do I need to carry to church on Sunday to have God's word. 2? 5? 8? That's what I thought!!! I was saved by Jesus and His shed blood when I came under conviction under preaching from the KJV. I didn't have to look through 3-4 so called bible to get a picture of true salvation. One BIBLE has it all!!! KJV it's good to be led to salvation by, it's good for directions to lead me through this life, and praise God, It shows me the way home to heaven!!!!
⚠️ kiddingme ⚠️ Do I understand you correctly ⁉️ You actually use the modern version to interpret the KJV? Kim and Breaker will be VERRRRY displeased to learn this. Now I wonder how many IFB's do what you do?
I won't be surprised if it's many. I believe only about 5-10% of IFB's really understand what they believe. I've debated many right here in RUclips comments and realized how confused IFB's are. Even Gene Kim admitted that most IFB's won't be able to publicly defend their faith. We can give it a shot if you're ready. We can even use your KJV translation ONLY. How do you like my offer? Generous?
@@joycebain6606 I'd say if you don't carry at least a dozen versions you can't be in the Bible a month club. These debates just further solidify that the KJV is head and shoulders above all other translations. I was brought under conviction by it from Isaiah 53 when someone witnessed to me in late March 1977 and born again on April 3, 1977, when the same person took the Bible and showed me again what I needed to know to be saved. God gave me an intense love for His word immediately and I couldn't get enough of it. I understand the deception of the modern versions and I know this insanity will go on until Jesus comes again which could be any moment now. Some of these people think it's ok to put out 100's of versions, most of which are based on the worst text ever. I truly wonder if some of them are saved and I'm quite sure some are not. I wonder if these debates are helpful to anyone. I seriously doubt it. Btw, I purchased both an RSV and NASB not long after I was saved, thinking it would help me understand the Bible better. I found them both not only not helpful, but it seemed God didn't use them in my life. Just wasn't the same if you know what I mean.
Funny how I identified the non-KJB man right away.
If Brother Mitch does not give credit to the Hebrew and Greek texts, where did the words in the KJV come from? God did not inspire the prophets to write His Word in English. English was not even a language when the Word of God was established. His statement, "If God is gonna give a Bible, He's gonna give it in the English language," is ridiculous. And the KJV has not "always been here." Maybe it's always been in this country, but what did people rely on before the 1600's??? How can Brother Mitch depend on scribes in the king's court to translate accurately any more than he can depend on some other scholar? His logic in multiple places makes no sense.
It makes perfect sense! God knew that there would be a time that the English language is world - wide! You don't understand what Mitch has to say bc you are using man's understanding. You need to purchase " Sealed by the King" by Brandon Peterson. It gives irrefutable evidence that the KJV is flawless! Is anything too hard for God? Be a Bible believer instead of a Bible corrector!
@@RussellPottebaum-v4u was the KJV written by the apostles??? The apostles and prophets wrote in Hebrew and Greek. Understanding the languages that God’s Word was written is key!! There are places in the KJV that don’t match the Hebrew/Greek. And the king James uses 100s of words that in today’s language, we don’t understand therefore have to go to a dictionary, modern translations, some, are not changing God‘s Word, but simply editing words to our modern vernacular
Genuine question that I'm not necessarily expecting anyone to answer, but how many KVO activists have actually read any of John Calvin's works?
On the Easter question at 2:39:00 here is proof the King James position is wrong. Ezekiel 45:21 "in the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, A FEAST OF SEVEN DAYS, unleavened bread shall be eaten." Here God defines the Passover as a 7 day event. Making the verse in Acts 12:4 a correct rendering using Passover instead of Easter. Since God defines it as a seven-day event himself it is still the Passover during acts 12:4, Easter is a foolish traditional translation.
Do you really think Herod is celebrating Easter?
As in the same Easter, your celebrating?
So Herod's family is going from trying to kill baby Jesus to celebrating him?
Come on man!
Nathan, how you held yourself back was exemplary. I nearly threw my phone there multiple times.
1:26:38 - what value for his position of KJO does going into a persecution complex and antivax rage have?
Yeah, I laughed at that. Like where did that come from?
Does Mitch know that the King James Version was formed by those "Anglican baby sprinklers"? I don't mean for that sentence to come off rude or mean. It's his wording that makes it sound like that.
Also, Alexandrian persecutors of Stephen isn't an argument agains the Alexandrian texts. The Egyptians were redeemed by the gospel and there were Christians with manuscripts. I mean even St. Athanasius came from Alexandria. I don't understand the demonization of the Alexandrian people.
I know I'm really late to this, but...roMANS....lol😅😅😅 I just can't...😂 This might be the most convoluted argument from a KJVO I've heard... and I've heard some doozies.
The guy defending the KJV Only position keeps avoiding the issues and raising issues to avoid.
The one question about chapter and verse additions was dodged 3 times and never answered. It was like watching an old wrestling match and the guy waking outside the ring until the ref counted him out so he didn’t have to loose by getting beat up and pinned down.
A question for KJV Onlyists: Which KJV do YOU use? The OFFICIAL 1611 or the 1769 Blaney edition? Furthermore, do you use the Cambridge edition or the Oxford edition? If the Cambridge edition, which ONE?
1629: Cambridge KJB
1638: Cambridge KJB
1760: Cambridge KJB
1769: Oxford KJB (This is the Benjamin Blayney edition)
1873: Cambridge Paragraph KJB
1900: Cambridge KJB (aka, "Pure Cambridge Edition")
According to your dogma, you can only use ONE. Therefore, which ONE?
John 3:16 in the original 1611 King James Bible reads,
"¶ For God so loued þe world, that he gaue his only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.”
If you open your KJB to John 3:16 and it reads exactly as this, then yes, you can then claim that you read the 1611 KJB.
The bottom line is this- the King James Bible that KJV Onlyists read and study from is likely the 1769 Benjamin Blayney edition. Hardly anyone within King James "only" circles reads and studies from the original 1611 King James Bible. Therefore, they may as well refer to themselves as "Blaney Mainly" instead of "King James Only." If any one individual does read and study from the "1611 AV", then they are a rarity. But, it certainly is not the standard within King James Only circles. KJV Onlyists must ask themselves, "Why isn't it?"
+>
Dishonesty & Tradition are the main strong holds of KJVO
Let's compare and see how good of a point you made.
1611 / 1769 (standard)
For / For
God / God
so / so
loued / loved
þe / the
world, / world,
that / that
he / he
gaue / gave
his / his
only / only
begotten / begotten
Sonne: / Son,
that / that
whosoeuer / whosoever
beleeueth / believeth
in / in
him, / him
should / should
not / not
perish, / perish,
but / but
haue / have
euerlasting / everlasting
life. / life.
Wait a minute.
That's the exact same words with the exact same meaning, with nothing different at all except spelling.
@@TruthisChrist ~ Yes! It's exactly the same except spelling changes and that's exactly what you would expect from a new language, the Final English language that would be known and spoken in end times. Almost like GOD planned it huh? 😊
The giant picture used at 2:29:48 and the subsequent points were powerful. The amount of thoughtful preparation by Nathan was impressive.
What do you think any translator does?
@@philipj.sherman2987 Exactly! Modern translators are required to do the same thing.
One of the rules used by the kjv translators was 'if it sounds right, leave it like that' lol
Who burned William Tyndale. His last words were may God open the king of Englands eyes
When will you a do a debate on the Lord’s NASB? 🤔
When someone says it’s perfect and creates conspiracy theories to support their view. 🤷🏽♂️
😂😂😂
It's a debate against the KJV not the Baptist denomination.
It is a very small minority of Baptists that would ever entertain such a ridiculous position anyways. He keeps talking about Baptists around the time of the translation periods but he would almost completely disagree with the soteriology of a 1689 Particular Baptist.
I feel like he’s about to do a mesothelioma commercial
Does Mitch make the argument against KJV only at 1:38:33???
I listened to this segment and I'm trying to figure out what in the world you're talking about.
Your not making any sense.
Nathan did a great job. I only wish he had dress more conservatively, only because it’s one less thing for his opponents to focus on.