Lay Apostolate - 010 - I'm Done with My 401k
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Catholic Retirement Alternatives with Jacob Imam ruclips.net/user/li...
Usury, Stock Market, 401k and Catholic Social Doctrine for Family Financial Planning ruclips.net/user/li...
WATCH/LISTEN to the debate with Trent Horn - • Is it generally immora...
READ "Should Christians Invest in the Stock Market?" by Jacob Imam and Marc Barnes (New Polity Journal Winter 2022 3.1 pp. 27-42) newpolity.com/...
"REPLIES TO MR. HORN'S OBJECTIONS" by Sean Domencic newpolity.com/...
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Hot take. Speculation isn't inherently evil. It's inherently wrong when it's done in a manipulative way. If all you're doing is using your expertise in understanding the market and putting your own skin in the game should you guess wrong, you're actually providing a valuable service. That service being providing a price on uncertain things. You're bringing an order into the chaos and uncertainty. That "if" is doing a lot of work, of course.
The document does say "illicit speculation", so I think it's well within the realm of acceptability to interpret that to mean that there are licit forms of speculation.
The premise is false and based on a misunderstanding of assets and savings. Owning stocks, bonds, bank deposits, currency, and real estate are the same speculation.
The only non-speculative asset one can own is gold bullion.
I love your apostolate, Tim. But, your view of money and the stock market needs work. Your preference for physical assets over “speculative” stocks, all the while advocating for whole life, is confused and impoverished thinking. One day, you won’t be able to work. One day, your car asset will be worth zero. Physical assets rust, break down, and collect dust. Your whole life policy is invested in the stock market, so you’re back to speculation. Investing long term in the stock market is no more speculative than buying land, or a house. Those physical assets have no guarantee attached to them. 2008 taught us that much. Don’t confuse the love of money, with reasonable long-term financial planning in the stock market. And, don’t unnecessarily burden your children by showing up to your dotage penniless for lack of financial planning.
Well, the real estate market is also a very manipulated and speculative market. House prices are no longer in line with real things like cost of construction. When you enter the real estate market, from an investment perspective, you're not really betting on the real value of the asset as much as you are betting on future zoning laws, immigration policies, interest rates, laws around rent control, etc. Most of the value is not a function of the actual asset.
Yes! Stock generates dividends and confers voting rights. Don't overlook the aspects that make stock ownership real. Also, speculation in commodity markets allocates risk between buyers and producers, and stabilizes prices. Don't be like the one who buried his one talent in the ground!
@@mindingownbiz I have no issue with speculation per se - I'm fully on board with their value in those cases. Insurance is also broadly speaking a form of speculation.
However, I'm not convinced dividends and voting rights are a compelling argument for the value of stocks. Most stocks don't pay dividends, and probably never will. And unlike commodity market speculation, speculation on stock prices seems to have very little to do with expected discounted value of future dividends like they teach in school. Stock prices are more moved by monetary stimulus than anything else it seems.
Wow! This subject was on my mind this morning and here I find your video!
Tim - I'm going to write you an email separately. You were definitely punching above your weight class on this topic.
That’s an understatement.
More stable with a Knights Of Columbas just means they’re investments are speculations
On things that are somewhat safer to speculate on
Exactly. They released an etf that plays in the stock market…
And it's codeword for "it wont grow and inflation will eat into this." Best hedge against inflation is always equities.
@@grantiodice1425 Fighting inflation with inflation I see
I have always thinking the same as well. In Spain it is tricky as we still have a public Social Security system set up by the state by means of which the administration takes a bit of your salary for a sort of public account reserved to cover your medical expenses and pensions for retirement. That system was implemented during general Franco’s administration and it was undoubtedly a good thing, still in place and trusted by the citizens (although politicians running it now are all but decent and may direct such money to their actual evil policies). However, it has worked ever since (many say it is no longer sustainable) and the main reason is that it was implemented by a regime (general Franco’s one) which was always inspired by the Church Social doctrine -arguably the very only time throughout modern history a state has ever successfully implemented the CSD (Spain became the world’s 7th economic power in 40 years in a mixed economy of private ownership and public policies by a benevolent state covering basic needs). Nowadays the state and its evil politicians are no longer trust worthy but once there was a system that still works but it shall disappear in less than a decade since it has the risk of the public state
No…a share of stock is a share of ownership in a business. Whether I own a portion of a local burger joint or a share in a larger corporation, the same concept applies. Owning a share of a small business or large corporation pays you a dividend or portions of profit.
It’s all the same. These arguments are silly.
Now, there are other aspects of the broader market that don’t work this way and could be described as negative as you suggest.
Tim , I've read your book " Introduction to The Holy Bible for Traditional Catholics" and it has enriched my Love for the Holy Word of God ! Thanks a million may you be eternally blessed for this Book !
Same!! A year ago I knew and stopped contributing!! God bless you!
Just randomly clicked on this and am feeling a bit convicted. Thanks man.
That happened to me last year. It led to a serious moral conversion about how I view and use money.
The stock market is a problem but buying a piece of a company by means stock certificates is different. I invest in companies I believe in by buying stock. Like Warren Buffett, I look at their products, leadership, and production and decide if I want to own a piece of that company.
Can the stock price be manipulated? Yes, sadly the investment houses and speculators make my efforts a lot tougher because they can ruin a company by manipulating the ownership of its stock.
Likewise if I own a restaurant and another business knows someone at the health dept, they can ruin my business without cause just like stock price manipulation. In the stock market and business ownership, there can be speculation and wrong doing.
What matters is whether you are harming others by your efforts.
This is truly stupid advice. If you are fearful of financial markets get more conservative.
YES ! YES! YES!
Trent Horn probably missed the mark. The real question is whether ALL speculation is unjust by definition. Because all kinds of things are speculative. My understanding is that for speculation to be illicit, it must *artificially* manipulate prices for gain. But I, like so many, am still learning.
That would be my thought process. If you're not manipulating prices, then your speculation actually brings value to the overall system by bringing new information about the true value of the underlying asset and reducing uncertainty or risk. If you are manipulating prices, then you are doing the opposite on net. That's the specific difference I think, not whether speculation itself occurs.
What did Trent Horn say?
What do you mean by "value" when you say a car will keep its value? For car dealers, book value is a price a car can sell for, depending on how old it is and its condition. As a car ages, its book value usually falls.
When marketers say "value," may mean how many useful features a product has. You plenty of value when you get many excellent features for a low price. So, value can be subjective in that sense of the word. But that doesn't mean that a product is worth any price someone will pay for it.
If I were Mr. Flanders, I'd learn much more about the stock market and banking before I said much about whether it's alright for Catholics to buy stocks, bonds and other financial instruments. I know he's only saying what he believes. But I suggest we need to study details to decide whether we can invest morally.
New Polity is my favorite magazine, but I don't know how much to trust what it tells me about money.
No need to "trust" him. Tim stated explicitly that it was an amateur opinion. Where to put your money is largely a prudential decision anyways. Investing in the stock market has never been explicitly condemned and therefore it is licit per se. There is a legitimate debate on whether it is a good place to invest though. It's good to wrestle with the concepts. I personally agree with Tim on this particular point, although I don't fully agree with how he reached the conclusion. Namely, it doesn't seem that speculation has ever been declared as evil (Centessimus Annus seems to suggest that there are both illicit and licit forms of speculation but I'm open to correction on this). It also doesn't seem to stand up to reason that it would be, so the fact that the Church hasn't condemned it doesn't seem surprising.
Anyways, it's good to wrestle with the questions.
@@Michael-vf2mw I agree with you. On the other hand, I still speculate when investing in, say, a close friend's bakery. I hope my investment will help him, his family, and their business. But if the bakery goes bankrupt, I may lose my money and any expected dividends. So, I doubt the Church would condemn each way to speculate. I invest in a mutual fund that has always performed well because the portfolio manager has always bought and sold shares for me.
If I did that myself, I probably would lose most of my money. Still, it would be foolish to sell my shares to deposit the money in a savings account with an interest rate below two percent. The FDIC would insure my money. But fractional reserve banking still seems immoral because it lets a bank lend money it dosn't have. Would it make sense to store my cash in a wall safe an home? I doubt it.
My best friend and I hated credit cards and I still do. So, I wonder how he feels about them today. Long ago, he discovered that he. needed them to build a credit history to qualify for mortgage. My credit history began at my first job because I used a corporate American Exxprsss card for business expenses. My credit score was very high when my mom wanted to buy a home about 10 years ago, But the credit union said that score wouldn't help her since I'd never incurred any significant debt. If I use a credit crd, I always pay the balance before the due date.
Is that heraldic emblem, the black gryphon facing right on a yellow background, the coat of arms of Kashubia Poland? I am of Kashubian descent on my paternal side and it looks familiar.
With Whole Life, your spouse/family will not get your "Savings" or "Cash Value" if you were to pass away. The spouse/family would only receive the nominal death benefit of $500k/$1M etc. and the "Savings" would be kept by the insurance company. For how much extra you pay in upfront fees, you aren't getting a good deal for your money and Term Life would be a far cheaper policy to protect your family. Whole Life policies have very high profit margins for insurance companies = bad deal for consumers. I'd be curious if the Whole Life sold through the KoC is any different?
Well done Hermano. Thank you for these videos.
Don’t forget to read the new book “Something for Nothing?: An Explanation and Defence of the Scholastic Position on Usury” by David Hunt (Os Justi Press, 2024)
The stock market is no different, at a macro level, than you 'investing' in your uncle's small ice cream shop business. "The Stock Market" is simply a public market where you can invest in 'public' businesses. Trading is another matter. Derivatves, options, stuff like that, yeah, that can start to creep into gambling territory.
In theory, but I don't think that's the case in actuality. All you had to do was watch the shenanigan's that happened around Feb 2020 and continued throughout the covid stimulus period to realize that the stock market is not really connected to the real economy. The same can be said about the housing market to an extent. Most of the value in those two markets is not due as much to the value of the underlying assets (eventual dividend payouts and the actual house) as it is a product of prices being driven by artificial finances.
My best investment advice is to pray to Saint Matthew, Apostle and Evangelist, on this, the day of his patronage.
It's God's money. We're stewards.
So.. do you agree or disagree with Tim?
What’s your take on bonds?
I don't know much about them. TSF
Tim it's so funny you just posted this; I cashed out my 401k on Friday.
Yes, you are correct, I heard that oh... many years ago, that the concept of retirement we have today is a very new concept in the history of mankind. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think this *universal* concept of retirement was a thing in the 19th century even.
The concept of granting pensions is different. Selective government granted pensions I mean. That is an ancient thing, as in before the Fall of Rome. I remember reading about, or maybe it was hearing about it in a televised lecture, or maybe by a book 📖 author at a speaking event, either way... a Congressman or someone in the Government with power and influence, authorized and secured for some American woman a pension for the remainder of her life. A Government pension. I think she might have been a widow and she had fallen on very hard times including psycho-emotionally.
But cases like that were only selectively granted going all the way back to antiquity.
There is a dilemma with the family model, that natives to England will face as well as native born and raised Americans. And it goes to Tai Chi as well as the Kung Fu movies 🎥 on TV I think every Sunday of childhood years, all before the challenges between styles in the EARLY UFC fights. England and the USA, carrying out mass migration into their countries, our dooming the future financial lives of most the younger generations. Consequently, one does not need a Ph.D. to ask the question... what impact will this have on children one day to take care of their elderly parents?
I don't know if most members of Congress are simply evil and malicious or if they simply lack an understanding of basic capitalist economics that I need to sit them on my knee and explain it to them. You see... one can overdue "charity" in language at times. When your associate is super intoxicated, can barely walk straight, its time to take the keys to his car 🚗 away from less he kill a bus load of children or a family in a car. When grandma can't see for a damn, she doesn't need to be behind the wheel of a car, especially during a snow storm. When you have sociopaths, psychopaths, with high school emotional states of mind, jumping out fron behind bushes in the middle of the night holding a toy butcher knife, trying to terrify nuclear armed Russia. The LEAST charitable thing you could do is to NOT call these people imbeci__. Its time to take away their keys to the gun safe. Inflation and ballooning 🎈 the money supply? These people in Congress blow through Congressionally approved money faster than a gambling or cocaine addict. If they were coaches of an NFL team they would be fired after losing every game of the season. Look at the Americans the members of the House and Senate are turning out? What are we... The Bad News Bears? No. We are bad and no bears. But I'm supposed to just have blind faith in these clowns 🤡🤡 as the greatest coaches in citizenry development across all of Earth. 🙄 Yeah, not.
Outstanding American citizens like you Timothy and like Colonel Douglas Macgregor, the US Government does not want to hear from nor to have influence upon other citizens of the USA. That's problem #1.
U.S. Politicians know that the entire American money supply is in the hands of a private Jewish banking cartel called the Federal Reserve that charges interest on the fake paper dollars it creates out of thin air, yet the Jewnited States government asks the Jewish Federal Reverse for more fake dollars to fund world Jewry and Jewish wars, plunging the country further into debt to said Jewish bankers, knowing full well that the National debt is impossible to pay since the Jewish federal reserve bankers purposefully don’t print enough money to cover the interest of the loans the Jews of the Jewnited States of America take out from the Jewish bankers. Yet dual-citizen Israeli/Jewish politicians who control the U.S. government continue to ask the Jewish Federal Reserve for more fake dollars, knowing they are plunging the citizens of America into a never-ending cycle of debt and enslavement.
Another thing to consider about the stock market is it usually does the best during wartime, a crisis, like the recent pandemic. It seems to be an entity that exists which grows and becomes glutenous during times of struggle for the everyday working man.
Edit: We've decided to set aside a certain amount of money that I'd previously place in my 401k, and instead buy physical gold. We can also pass it along to our children as an heirloom, which is untaxable, unlike a bank account after death, or use it if needed to help during old age. They can't seize it the same way that Canada seized the trucker's bank accounts. To your statement that it's becoming incredibly hard to buy property, please pray for people like me who are younger with a growing family, but unable to buy property because it's become so inflated. Especially for discernment on when it's time to pack up and move states.
Really? And what war were we fighting in the 1980’s or the tech boom of the 90’s?
@@michaelspeyrer1264 The stock market was doing fantastic while shops were closing up, people were being laid off, and groceries and other amenities were going up in price. It proves that the stock market and the economy itself are two separate things. The wealthy speculators were making the most money they've ever made, while normal folk were suffering. Similarly, during wars, people profit on the stock market during them. You can argue that prior to today's world, there might have been less of this happening like your example, but you can't in good conscience argue that 2020's and the 90's are in any way similar.
The main reason it bulged during the plandemic was because of all the public money that flowed into through the the crony handouts. It was a deliberate wealth transfer (aka theft), not anything inherent to the stock market. Hardly a moral argument for investing in the stock market, albeit maybe a pragmatic one. You just have to be comfortable with the degree of material cooperation in evil. Arguably it's small, but that's the question to wrestle with in my mind.
3:24 “before I was Catholic,” don’t kid yourself you aren’t catholic now, you just changed Protestant Denominations.
They always tend to maintain such a Protestant outlook, don't they? It's maddening.
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