In the Prog Seat: The Albums Right After the Split- Genesis & Peter Gabriel
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Join the In the Prog Seat crew for a discussion of 'the albums after the split-who did it better?' between Genesis 'Trick of the Tail' and Peter Gabriel 'Peter Gabriel 1/Car'. #genesis #petergabriel
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The debut Peter Gabriel album is solid, but Trick is one of the Genesis masterpieces. Start to finish. And love to hear that folks are noting Mad Man Moon, which is massively underrated and one of the greatest Genesis songs.
Peter Gabriel's album is amazing
I wasn’t really even a big Genesis fan but still think Peter Gabriel 1 is a classic. “ Here Comes The Flood” one of the best album closers ever.I saw him on that tour , w/Television opening, at the Tower in Philly. Fripp , Alan Schwartzberg etc.. awesome!
Trick of the Tail is an album everyone should own however Foxtrot one of the greatest
Agree Michael with that take. And Gabriel’s debut album is special. There’s more to it than Solsbury Hill even though that’s a very catchy one.
I would have died to have seen Gabriel with Television! That must've been very cool.
Gabriel definitely did back in NYC on his shows from 77 / 78. I believe he does it on the Rockpallast show (see elsewhere on RUclips). Really looking forward to a new album and tour!! that's great news!!
Peter's first solo album is a nice record. But TOTT is a sublime album. Great songwriting, particularly by Banks and Hackett. The album is also sonically superb. Truly one of their greatest albums, and one of the best prog albums of all time.
I was an angry young teen who felt hurt by Genesis losing a creative genius frontman, a phenomenal rock drummer, and an expressive lyrical guitarist. I have since come to realize my stupidity and have re-assessed Trick of the Tail as the classic prog powerhouse that it is. I have nothing bad to say about that album. but my heart immediately went over to Peter Gabriel. both the singer and the first self-titled album. there are moments I love on that record, like the fact that Robert Fripp plays classical guitar and_banjo?_ Tony Levin plays tuba on one song. and I'm sure it's Dick Wagner playing on "Here Comes the Flood." but my favorite song (by a very narrow margin) is "Modern Love." I really needed a rock out mode PG tune like "Back in NYC," it grabbed me by the throat when I was 16 yo, and it still energizes me today.
It was 15 years ago this exact week, that I spent 2 weeks in Hawaii as a 50th birthday present with my late mother (thanks for the trip Mom!). My sister and I took an excursion from the Volcanoes National Park on the Big Island, through the Mars like lava fields to the ocean cliff, down to the water to watch the lava pouring into the water. We put on TOTT for the ride, and hearing Dance on a Volcano and Entangled was an amazing, very carthartic, emotional experience...hard to explain to you all...but a perfect CD for the ride....to me a "perfect" perfect LP. Great show guys!!
Great album, great comment! Now at 66, I always sing Dance on a Volcano when my wife and I hike up steep trails and peaks in National Parks . It helps and the bears don't care for my voice!
@@peteshallcross787 It's the perfect song and overall LP for that!
Trick Of The Tail is one of my favorite Genesis albums
It's hard for me to tell which one is the best because I love both ! However Im leaning towards Genesis, just by a small bit. Peter Gabriel 's debut is all good, from start to finish, not a bad song in my opinion. Moribund The Burgereister, Humdrum, Down The Dolche Vita, Here Comes The Flood, some o my fav tracks.
A Trick Of The Tail : What can I say, one of my all time favotite Genesis album, top 4 I would say, perfect all the way through, not a weak track imo !
i bought PG's debut album on a recommendation from a music magazine and thoroughly enjoyed it...
Since Peter Gabriel obviously took a conscious right turn away from Progressive rock, this seems like an apples to oranges comparison. And with so many of Genesis' component members still in place, it's a cinch that those combined strengths would come up with a comparably creative effort to the Lamb, for example. Maybe a little unfair to expect Gabriel to out-write that combined team effort?
Peter Gabriel four (Security) is one of the best albums of all time!
I agree.It's my favorite of his solo albums.
I hear what you're saying regarding the album version of Here Comes the Flood and it is great, but I like the more stripped down and mostly acoustic version better. It's more intimate and really showcases Peter's vocals.
My very favourite Genesis album and my favourite Peter Gabriel album 👍🏻
Although Gabriel’s debut is my favorite solo album by him, l must give the edge to A Trick of the Tail. I was glad to see both Chuck & Rick single out the vastly underrated “Mad Man Moon.” Banks keyboard work on the tune is stellar. The way he overdubs and layers about five different keyboards in the instrumental midsection reminds of a Page or May guitar orchestration. That’s probably my favorite part of the entire album. Tony Banks always plays to song, but man, that cat can shred when he wants to. In my personal favorite keyboardists, Wakey is first; Martin Orford (IQ, Jadis, solo work) is second; and Banks is third. Prog On to all my prog brothers and sisters!
those early Peter Gabriel records were 🔥🔥
That's a really tough call. Though as much as I do love 'A trick of the tail' It never connected with me as much as the 5 previous albums with Gabriel, who is definitely the missing piece of the puzzle, not only because of his vocal delivery but his very strong songwriting talent. 'Car' or 'Peter Gabriel 1' or whatever you wanna call it on the other hand still captures the same classic 'Foxtrot/Selling/Lamb sorta magical atmosphere that I kinda miss on trick, and surely offers much more variety. So yeah, I think I'll go with Peter on this one.
I'm with Chuck, I've always loved the album version of "Here Comes the Flood".
Have to agree with the consensus that "Trick" is the better album of the two… I think Pete was adrift creatively, and had a bigger mountain to climb on his own than Genesis did at the time. It took him a couple more years before he found his groove, which IMO started happening on "Melt", but I absolutely love "Scratch" as well.
Enjoy the PG album but A Trick of the Tail is on a different level in my opinion, my favorite Genesis album
A Trick of the Tail and Wind & Wuthering are really good albums in the classic Genesis vein... I've always liked Phil Collins even better as a singer even though the absolute best Genesis albums were the Peter Gabriel ones, even Trespass makes the short list... I like Duke and Invisible Touch but Steve Hackett's departure was the real nail in the coffin. Even with solid material they just would have been better with him. Funny thing is- even a suitable replacement would have been fine, but man these guys have a problem with guitar. Can you imagine if every band just moved on without replacing a guitarist? I'd finally be tempted for some Taylor Swift
Some say there's Genesis with Peter Gabriel and without him, but for me it has always been: there's Genesis with Steve Hackett and without him. Such a loss.... A no brainer which album I choose of these two.
The only good thing I can say about Trick of the Tail is that it is the most tolerable of the post-Peter Gabriel Genesis albums. The second most tolerable is Wind and Wuthering, followed closely by And Then There Were Three...I hope you get my drift that there was no Genesis once Peter Gabriel left. I remember clearly, before the days of the internet, when my friends and I did not know that Peter Gabriel had left Genesis and eagerly rushed out to buy the new album. We put on the first track and began rocking out because Phil Collins sounded so much like Peter Gabriel but by the second or third track one of us smelled a rat and we began to suspect that was not Peter singing. I don't remember how we discovered that it was not Peter but I must admit Phil did a great job. Regardless of that the music and lyrics were not up to par and everybody knew it and they continued to go downhill radically in the ensuing years. I never heard a great Tony Banks keyboard extended solo nor any profound lyrics and I basically stopped listening to Genesis. Peter Gabriel's solo album, on the other hand, is one of the few that I consider to be perfect from top to bottom. There is not a single track that I skip when I listen to it and it is nothing like Genesis nor do I like much of what he did after this album. I definitely do not like his pop synth- heavy hits nor his beer commercial growl but this album stands out as one of the best of all time in my humble opinion. When your introduction to Genesis is buying Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme from an underground record store then you go back and hear their back catalog of from Genesis to Revelation and Trespass then in the middle of that the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway comes out you have seem them live several times with Peter Gabriel at the helm and Tony and Phil in all their glory then you are faced with the emergence of a pop band with no edge whatsoever I think you are forced to admit that Genesis died when Peter Gabriel left.
They are two different beasts. I'm a bigger fan of the Gabriel era over Collins era. I bought Gabriel's album first and loved it. A few years later I bought Trick and loved it. But like I said two different beasts. Now comparing Gabriel and Collins solo albums. That's different. Gabriel wins hands down.
Trick is the clear winner for me. They came back with a classic, and maybe one of the most solid albums of their career. PG did a damn fine job, too... but it's spotty for me. It's not as cohesive as Trick, in my opinion. Both great albums, but only can win :D
Love Gabriel's "Car" album but "Trick" made my top-5 favorite albums of all time in yesterday's SoT video. That sums it up.
The first two CDs I bought were these albums. I'm not sure why Trick was the first CD I bought but I bought Car second because I didn't own it on any format so figured why not get it on CD.
Both great albums. But I just love “Trick…”!
Prog Eargasm 🎵🎶🎼😍
Keep Listening!
The Trick Of The Tail album is so good produced and mixed album and I would really compare to the Return To Forever album Romantic Warrior which also is great produced and mixed. Both from the year of '76.
Love the Peter Gabriel album but Genesis is the winner here!
I have "always" thought that if the And Then There Were Three album was produced and mixed in the same way, it would have been a better album! Love Genesis! ❤️❤️
Gotta go with Trick of the Tail. It’s a masterful album and especially after losing your charismatic singer. I love Peter Gabriel but I agree with Chuck. It’s not even close.
You should mention that "after the split" the first album anyone released was actually Steve Hackett's Voyage Of The Acolyte. Were it not for the technicality that he stuck around for the two albums in 1976 before himself leaving, that album would be included in this conversation.
Peter Gabriel himself didn't like the production on his first album . He said Ezrin went overboard and as a result made the songs sound overblown ; songs that Peter would later strip back and perform them the way he felt they should sound .
Solsbury Hill is one of my favorite songs and the PG is great, but Trick of the Tail is the easy winner.
No contest really. I do really like PG1 but Trick of The Tail is an absolute masterpiece. Having said that I wish Genesis had brought in the sonic power they exhibited live into the studio. The TOTT tracks sound fantastic live (as on Seconds Out) especially Dance On a Volcano and Los Endos. They managed to capture the live feel on the follow up -Wind and Wuthering. In terms of making a comparison it would be interesting to see what you thought of Steve Hackett's Please Don't Touch vs Genesis' Then Their Were Three.
Trick of the Tail without hesitation. The run from this era through and including Abacab was in general Genesis' finest. Much of the sounds are harder and more liminal. Maybe that is why Watcher of the Skies was my favorite tune from when PG was still with them. But as for Trick of the Tail, "Dance on a Volcano" sets the tone. Squonk is delightfully dark and moody, and Robbery and Assault and Battery is a complex prog masterpiece. I enjoyed many of Peter Gabriel's solo works post Genesis, but I am less album oriented in my listening habits as his albums seem to be less cohesive as an experience. "Moribund the Burgmeister" is brilliant for sure from the Car and "Solsbury Hill" really is a nice cathartic release to who Peter really was and is, pop oriented or not. (This might all be unorthodox to the Genesis with PG era superfans, but its from the heart. We like what we like.)
"Trick of the Tail" is indeed an amazing album. As much as I love the Peter Gabriel era Genesis albums, the band lose nothing with Phil Collins taking over on lead vocals. As far as Peter Gabriel's solo music goes, I really have yet to dive into those albums. But I have been meaning to do so.
Get the recording "Plays Live".
That should do it for you.
No contest, which is a surprise considering how prog people usually rate the Gabriel v Post-Gabriel Genesis albums but TotT seems to have retained everything that made Genesis great and replaced an excellent voice with a very good one.
I really enjoy both a lot, but A Trick Of The Tail is, to me, a bit stronger. From start to finish, it has a great flow, even seeming like a story in a way.
I wasn't expecting the barbershop quartet of EXCUSE Me, or the straightforwardness of Modern Love. I always like when someone surprises me. Trick of the Tail edges it out slightly. My favorite Genesis is Wind and Wuthering. On a fall night, you go out on your porch or deck, lie on a lawn chair and look at the stars. Wuthering is the perfect soundtrack
A Trick Of The Tail is a monster. Great album.
Trick Of The Tail for me is the stronger of the two albums, Genesis proved that losing Peter Gabriel didn't hurt them at all, i would say they became very tight as a four piece band when Phil Collins took over the vocals. It's a great album with lots of classic songs like Dancing On A Volcano, Los Endos, Squonk to name a few. The band still retained the magic of the classic lineup from the Peter Gabriel era but took things in a very exciting direction without losing a single beat
Except that most Trick songs were already worked with Peter as well as some of Wind & Weathering… Now Trick and Wind are last true Genesis albums yet with Phil at vocals! Many could clearly imagine Peter singing the songs and surely come up with new stage acts and masks…. Darn we wanted to see that soo bad back then but the trick tour by its own right was fantastic and Phil did very well…
MIKE OLDFIELD 1974 HERGEST RIDGE
In 1974 Virgin released The Mike Oldfield Single. It contained a reworkerd guitar theme from Tubular Bells. Not the piano motif that was used on the American single release promoting the soundtrack of The Exorcist. In fact Tubular Bells was used for that horror classic without permission of Richard Branson. Nobody thought back then a young hippie from a brand new British record label would bother. When the American single made Oldfield famous overseas (it would turn out to be his first and last peak in the US), Mike was recording the follow-up album.
Hergest Ridge was named after the green countryside the 21 year young Mike was living in. In a large farm with his own recording studio surrounded by his army of instruments. For those people who tend to believe Oldfield never did something else than repeating Tubular Bells, his second album is an excellent point to start with. The album is considered to be Oldfields pastoral record. Because of the title obviously but also because of the more slower and longer movement of the composition. There is even room for some horns in the background. In the finale of Part One Mike goes back to Tubular Bells. It is again based on an recurring bass line and the bells come in at the very end. But the use of a big vocal choir was a brand new idea. The finale of Hergest Ridge gives me a cosy Christmas feel. Side two offers an even longer stretched out piece of music. With a theme that was called "spanish tune" (an excerpt was released under that name as a promo single and is considered to be Oldfields most rare record) Part Two opens and closes. Mikes sister Sally Oldfield delivered the vocal parts. Inbetween that pastoral "Spanish" tune suddenly gets interrupted by a section that is known amongst fans as the thunderstorm section. Minutes long multi layered guitars fall down as heavy rain on the listeners head. It sounds like a full string hardrock instrumental but without any drums. It's difficult though to not bang your head whilst listening.
Hergest Ridge got to number 1 in the UK and dragged Tubular Bells along with it to rise up again in the charts. Finally both records took over the number 1 spot from each other. Tubular Bells would stay in the UK album charts for more than one year. In Europe Mike Oldfield now had become a household name in the prog (or was it just rock or folk of symphonic pop?) scene.
Part One of this little Mike Oldfield story can be read in the comments of the previous episode of In The Prog Seat. Next week: Ommadawn (1975).
The Taurus 1 bass pedals are AWESOME!
Gabriel 1 is a very good album but `A Trick of the Tail` by a mile! Considering Gabriel had just left it`s a stunning effort by the remaining members!
Trick of the tail, for me. No contest. I love Gabriel, but I mostly really like a few tracks from the debut.
So Genesis is my favorite ever prog band, especially the Gabriel years. This episode is set up as Gabriel's debut solo album vs Trick Of The Tail by Genesis. For me it's not even close, Trick by a mile (and I love Gabriel's solo stuff). Hackett is still there, there are 8 really solid winners on this album. "Entangled" is just beautiful & very reminiscent of earlier Gabriel Genesis, but with more vocal harmonies added. Same with "Mad Mad Moon". "Los Endos" is a total workout, just fantastic. "Dance On A Volcano" is vintage prog Genesis, again fantastic. "Robbery, Assault & Battery" is the more poppy version of the band (sign of things to come) that shows they can bring great pop/rock mixed with prog. "Squonk" is probably my fave track here, the changes & melodic lines are magical. Honestly I don't know how the band could've made a better first non-Gabriel album. Lucky for us that it was also a hit & enabled the subsequent great albums like Wind & Wuthering, And Then There Were Three & Duke. They toured this album with the addition of no less a drummer than Bill Bruford (replaced by Chester Thompson for the next album's tour)
Time In The Prog Seat is always enjoyable and this episodes are particularly interesting. Looking forward to seeing more of these. Personal vote has to be for the Genesis album here though the musical talents of Genesis and Peter Gabriel are both really enjoyed. Thanks, gents, for this episode.
Trick of the Tail for me without any doubt Although I love Gabriel's work too I think the 2 strongest albums Genesis ever made were "Trick" and "Wind and Wuthering" with Trick just edging it. To me they lost far much more when Hackett left than they did when PG went. All the textured, nuanced guitar work disappeared and with it the Genesis sound
For me, "Trick of the Tail" is the better album because it showed the fans that Genesis wasn't only about Peter Gabriel. The album showcased the talents of the other members as writers and performers, and firmly established that they could go on as a quartet (and eventually a trio). They also had the advantage of working together for several years. Peter Gabriel's first solo album, on the other hand, puts Gabriel back in the starting position with entirely new musicians where he hasn't yet found his identity and grown as a solo artist. The album is very good, and well-produced with some classic songs, but isn't the quintessential solo Peter Gabriel we grew to love in albums 3, 4, and beyond.
Trick of the tail is a better album and is my personal favorite Genesis album but I do still love Gabriel’s debut. I love how musically diverse it sounds. Moribund the burgermeister sounds like a continuation of the lamb. I especially love the tracks ‘excuse me’ and ‘here comes the flood’.
I loved Genesis with Gabriel. Was devastated when he left. Picked up his debut on release and couldn't get my head around it at first. "This doesn't sound like Genesis at all..." which was entirely the point of course. Once I'd got my head straight I grew to love it. Might still be my favorite Gabriel record and a ★★★★★ classic. Trick of the Tail has some great songs but I was never sold on the production. Still feels flat to me, hence ★★★★. Live is where these songs came to life. I don't play it very often for that reason but I play Seconds Out and some of those amazing bootlegs from '76 all the time.
As for who did it better, as everyone seems to agree, Peter was trying to create something new and distance himself from Genesis whereas Genesis were intent on doing the best Genesis album they could, and I think both achived those aims. My preference is to listen to Trick of the Tail, which has become my favourite alongside Selling England. I tend to skip Excuse me on Gabriel's Car and If I had to pick a favourite Gabriel album, at the moment i'd go for 4 (Security) .
Now for some waffle on my relationship with Trick of the Tail and Peter Gabriel -
In 1976 father christmas brought me a copy of Trick of the Tail. I rather liked it at the time and while I didnt get Wind and Wuthering I did get Seconds Out. Then I had to sell some of my albums to buy tickets for Reading Rock 1979, Donington Monsers of Rock and Reading Rock 1980 - Trick and Seconds Out had to go. At Reading 79, before Whitesnake came on - who I was really looking forward to - Peter Gabriel was on the other stage and to be honest I was getting a bit fed up with the length of time he was taking. I gather Phil Collins joined him - I couldnt have cared less at the time.
Then Genesis went pop and I became a metal head, getting into the world of the NWOBHM and then Thrash.
I also ( and to this day I have no real idea why) from the mid 80's had an aversion to bands and artists I saw or thought of as being "worthy"which included Gabriel, as well as Fripp and the Canterbury Scene - as while my favourite prog bands often got a slagging, for some reason the Canterbury scene was always highly praised. Phil Collins also used to seem to slag off Genesis' prog years whenever he was asked about the early days, so I developed a strong dislike for him and his tenure in Genesis.
Through the 80's and 90's I blanked Genesis, then in around 1997 I got into neo prog (though I had been a big Marillion fan from back in 1982, although that waned after Fish left) and as a result I also decided to get hold of the first Genesis Archive set.
Come the time of the 2008 remasters I had mellowed to the point of buying the first of the Genesis remasters boxes as well as stand alones of Trick of the Tail to Duke. All the while still not bothering with Gabriel.
Anyhow, in short I re-listened to Trick of the Tail numerous times and fell back in love with it, I also felt that as I rather liked most of his Genesis albums I would download Peter Gabriel's solo albums , as well as many of those other "worthy" bands and artists that I'd stubbonly refused to countenance. And I discovered that I'd been a bit of (actually a lot of) a doylem (northern Brit slang for idiot). Oh well, at least I got there eventually.
Great work guys.
A walk down memory lane.
On that 78 King Biscuit show, some dude yells out " I love you Peter Gabriel" between songs lol. If we're comparing So and Invisible Touch, then So wins by a mile. The best songs from Invisible Touch were " feeding the fire and do the neurotic", which were b-sides
I love all versions of "Here Comes the Flood". "Down the DucheVida" is better with every hearing. Salsbury Hill has always been a favorite. Hum Drum sounded beautiful. Excuse me was different. I did not like Moribund the Burgermiester. whereas every cut on Trick was a winner. that nailed the win.
Both are decent albums. Trick could be a Genesis with Peter Albums. And both would leave their style on later albums. But while the creative path of Peter lead uphills, Genesis might have been commercially more successful, but creatively not on the same level. Genesis went downhill after Steve left.
But back to the 2 albums.
PG1 is great, only excuse me I cannot stand. But Soulsbury Hills, Slowburn, Moribund, Here Comes The Flood are so modern sounding, not like a 70s prog album.
Trick has the absolutely best album cover of all Genesis records. I have to say, some of them are really horrible (ABACAB, Invisible Touch...). All the members, especially Mr. Hackett stepped up after Peter's departure. And Trick shows, what could have been, if they would have given Steve more space in the band. On the other hand we wouldn't have all those great Solo albums by Mr. Hackett.
For me, the first two Genesis albums after PG left are still fantastic. TotT and W&W continue in the tradition of what Genesis started before. After that is when the wheels started falling off. It was a slow degradation album after album until they fell into the shit hole with We Can''t Dance. Gabriels' solo stuff was alright for what it is, but at least at first Genesis didn't betray their fans with a change in direction like Gabriel did. After the first two Gabriel albums I jumped ship and never looked back.
Looking forward to the In the Prog Seat gentlemen’s insights into these albums. I feel that there are 2 -3 songs on each album that stand out imho... Entangled, Ripples and Robbery, Assault and Battery on A Trick of the Tail fuse great lyrics and vocals combined with stellar music and for the Peter Gabriel - Peter Gabriel album imho, I feel That the Moribund The Burgermeister, Humdrum and Here Comes the Flood hit the mark for unique lyrics and musicality. ... Obviously Solsbury Hill is a memorable and highly successful hit. Really like that Gabriel pushed more World musical influences into his work. Curious to see if any of the Prog Gentlemen agree that the friendship of Peter Gabriel and Peter Hammill may have had vocal tonal and lyrical influences for Gabriel. As has been stated, Hackett’s Voyage of the Acolyte was the lost Genesis album. On a side note, today is Sir Raymond Davies of the Kinks 78th birthday! ... Would also pick Trick slightly of the Gabriel album.
You make some great points about both albums Sal and I agree with you about the standout songs on each one. Also, thanks for pointing out that it's Ray Davies' birthday. Happy Birthday Sir Raymond. And may you enjoy many more.
"Squonk" really stands out for me
These albums contain, among them, 4 of our favourite songs ever..."Moribund the Burgermeister", "Solsbury Hill", "Entangled" and "A Trick of the Tail". Songs that inform our own songwriting.
Check out the 2007 remaster, they didnt change anything, they just brought out volume on some instruments that were buried in the 76 mix and they EQd some things. Usually, I'm not a remaster fan, especially when they completely remix them like the horrible zz top 87 reissues. But Trick 2007 was done very well.
Peter Gabriel I
No doubt I’m going with this one. What can I say, unbelievably great debut album, one of the greatest debuts ever! While I think A Trick of the Tail is a great album, I have always thought it’s a little overrated. I prefer Wind and Wuthering and especially And Then There Were Three over it any day!
Lest anyone think I am totally on Peter Gabriel's dicq or a Phil Collins hater let me assure you that Tony Banks always won the battle between who is the most important member of Genesis when I loved them Circa 1972-73. Phil Collins is my favorite drummer of all time and one of the nicest men on the planet and I swear that that is true because I met him and had a cup of tea with him in Hollywood before a gig at the Roxy, at the same gig where Peter showed up in a limousine last second after everyone had done soundcheck and made sure the show would go well and all the reporters wanted to just talk to him but I was still a Tony Banks fan because, in my opinion, he wrote all of the brilliant musical passenges that sent me into heaven, whereas Peter Gabriel was just the person who sang the songs. It's not about any of that. It is just that the quality of the Genesis music suffered after Peter Gabriel left. If someone can convince me that is not true I would welcome the argument.
Well said!!
Trick is the better album of these two I think. But I have to hand it to Peter to make a pop hit in 7/8s (Solsbury Hill)... Man, that's dope!
The amazing thing to me is both Trick of The Tail and Wind And Wuthering were both released in 1976!! And I prefer Car to Trick of the Tail!!
When I watch shows like this it saddens me that all these musicians are aging and we’ll never hear them put out incredible music like that anymore. Heck, even Roine Stolt is already 65!
Another great episode Pete. Genesis is my 2nd favorite band. That being said my Genesis is Peter Gabriel. I enjoy a few albums after he left Genesis but my pick today is Peter Gabriel (1) Car. Thanks for the great content Pete. SOT IS THE BEST CHANNEL ON RUclips.
Id say they were at very different points. Genesis was at their peak (in terms of music not commercial success) and Peter Gabriel was trying things out. Id say eventually Peter Gabriel did much better stuff than Genesis, but comparing this two albums, theres no competition. Genesis takes it easily.
I really like TOTT and W&W only because Hackett was still there and his influence, but both were missing the Gabriel influence and voice. So I have to go with PG 1. I loved this album. I’m old and I had these albums when they first came out.
I love Peter Gabriel's first album. Every song is completely different - musically - production - arrangement- mood - subject matter - vocally - and that gives the album more depth. There's humour in some of the songs which was missing in the subsequent 3 albums. It's a complete album that's better than the sum of the parts. Subsequent albums had better individual songs but I don't think he was ever as consistent over an entire album again. As a start to finish listen I think it's his best.
As much as I love Gabriel with Genesis and as a solo artist, Genesis proved they could make exceptional music with the Trick and I saw that tour in '76. Genesis didn't slide until Hackett left, whom I'll be seeing live this Nov in Milwaukee for the first time since that show in '76. His band is super talented and they'll be playing Steve's solo material along with Foxtrot in it's entirety! They end the show with, what else, Los Endos. 10th row, can't wait! See you there???
Seen Hackett solo probably 8 times over the years. You`re in for a treat!!!
It's been many years since I was so excited to see musicians live. Where did you see him and where do you live?@@harrybaran2683
Trick of the Tail. While Gabriel’s album is superb I have always reached for the Genesis album first.
Loved Peter Gabriel when he was in Genesis, sadly I just don’t like his solo stuff, so for me, Trick Of The Tail comes out on top.
Tony was the composer.
Peter was the vision.
As a fan, it was somehow fantastic: They existed double in one stroke. PG1 to me is the best album a solo-singer ever made until nowadays.
Hey Pete. Great topic, great show. I have to agree with all you guys. Trick Of The Tail is clearly the better album. It's my favorite post-Gabriel Genesis album. I've heard the comparison to Selling England By The Pound before and I think it's accurate. BTW, Selling England...is my favorite Genesis album overall. None of this is intended to dismiss Peter Gabriel. I love his first solo album. "Solsbury Hill" is actually my favorite Gabriel song and the rest of the album - with the exception of "Excuse Me" very good. That being said, my favorite Peter Gabriel album is III (Melting Face).
Trick of the Tail was the first Genesis album I ever owned (ONE DOLLAR used at a Portland record store!) I was completely enthralled with it. Dance on a Volcano seemed like the best thing I ever heard, it still might be my favorite Genesis song. But as time went on and I dug deeper into their discography, nothing against Phil Collins as a singer but he does not hold a candle to Peter Gabriel. 1. Gabriel's voice just SOUNDS better in the first place and 2. it IS one of the factors that made that band ROCK. You want to form a rock band, which of the two voices would you choose? 3. And the CREATIVE mastery Gabriel had brought to the songs, again does not come as naturally to Collins (He never INTENDED to be a singer, the role was almost thrust on him) Initially I used to think the Gabriel era purists were being unduly nitpicky when they snubbed "Genesis sans Gabriel" but over time I came to agree that the band downgraded several notches in the vocal department - let alone the writing dept. It's not to say Collins was bad, in my opinion, but again, he does not hold a candle to Gabriel. I can't UNHEAR it now.
Ahh Ken you just had to mention that PG Vinyl! I can feel my wallet loosening already lol
Agree with Chuck here about Mad Man Moon. While Los Endos is my favourite track, Mad Man Moon is right up there with it. As for the other eight tracks, there isn’t one weak composition there…
Ripples is one of my favorite Genesis songs especially the stracatto guitar from Steve Hackett
Trick of The Tail very good/great, PG's debut good/very good. PG's second album made his debut look pedestrian, Genesis, sadly, began morphing into a pop band
many say "close to the edge" is Prog's finest hour, for me it's "trick of the tail" it took Gabriel a few solo album's to find his sound. ...my opinion for what it's worth
I prefer to view this through a non "ranking" lens. Both albums are brilliant. Trick is an album that has lasted the test of time with me and is more BEAUTIFUL. But I thoroughly enjoy "Car."
I LOVE "Excuse Me". You got the money back; that's OK. Side two, for me, is a bit weaker, but "Here Comes the Flood" makes everything OK. A Trick of the Tail is a unified, confident, and clear vision and a huge artistic success.
Great discussion! Not to disrespect Gabriel but this is an easy one for me. Trick of the tail is my favorite genesis album, I love the space on it, the production, Collins fantastic vocals and the arrangements. It's such a mature and well structured record and maybe even ahead of it's time. It's a brilliant album. So trick of the tail for me
I would argue that taking a look at Gabriel's body of work post-Genesis, and Genesis' body of work post-Gabriel - rather than just their first two albums - would result in a very different verdict.
It’s a pretty hard decision for me, but I’m going with Trick Of The Tail on the strength of Dance On A Volcano and Squonk.
I think "Squonk" is a tremendous track, every bit worthy of the expectations that earlier Gabriel-era Genesis laid down
If Ezrin had put the production of The Wall into PG's 1st, it would have sounded so much better. Hearing my original US pressing, the album sounds like it was recorded in my basement. Steven Wilson, please help!!!!!!!
Why does Armando keep apologizing for liking Trick of the Tail? Easily the best of the two.
If there is anyone here who is the least burnt out about Genesis, its probably me coming into them about as late as I have. So, why am I not excited about this edition of Prog Seat seeing Trick of the Tail in the title. There have been multiple SoT episodes (Genesis Ranking, Fave/Least Fave/Top 10 songs) already putting the spotlight on Trick of the Tail (not to mention other episodes where this album was talked about in some fashion), so that's my feedback; this is one too many for me. I like the band a lot now but talking about Genesis again is getting a little stale for me. Hope everyone else enjoyed it if they can't get enough of Genesis.
I like both albums a lot but I am more impressed with Peter Gabriel's Car particularly Moribund the Burgermeister, Solsibury Hill, Modern Love, Here Comes the Flood, Dolce Vita and Humdrum. I think Genesis and Phil Collins as the new lead vocalist did a great job I think the Ripples chorus and harmonization on Entangled is the peak of the album but Squonk, Dance on a Volcano and Trick of a Tail are also impressive, but I don't think Phil Collins had completely found his unique pop power pop voice yet that made songs like Turn It On and That's All so radio friendly but also original sounding. However, I do think Trick of the Tail is the best overall post Gabriel album.
Another great show!!!
The guitar solo on Slowburn alone puts Gabriel's album on top, too bad Hackett hadn't discovered the volume knob on his amp
🎸💥
I think Ken is correct and Bob Ezrin's fingerprints are all over Peter Gabriel's first lp. It's no surprise (to me) that some of The Wall's best moments are similar to the highlights on Gabriel's debut.
No contest for me, Genesis 10/10, Gabriel 3/10.
c'mon, Volcano as set opener? oh my god.
Signal to Noise is the best Gabriel has ever done, right up there.,
Other suggestions :
- Mahavishnu Orchestra "Apocalypse" VS Billy Cobham Spectrum
- UK "Danger Money" VS Bill Bruford "One of a Kind"
- Mahavishnu Orchestra "Inner Worlds" VS Jean-Luc Ponty "Upon the Wings of Music"
- Emerson Lake and Palmer "Emerson Lake and Palmer" VS King Crimson "Lizard"
- Univers Zero "Ceux du Dehors" VS Present "Triskaidekaphobie"
- Soft Machine "Fifth" VS Robert Wyatt "Rock Bottom"
- Magma "Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh" VS Zao "Z=7L"
- Weather Report "Heavy Weather" VS Alphonso Johnson "Moonshadows"
- Magma "Attahk" VS Weidorje "Weidorje"
Attahk vs Weidorje - yes definitely!! great suggestion.. I think I would go for Weidorje
Peter Gabriel Car is a very "arty" album in my mind and a little all over the place. Not my favorite PG and would agree with Ken's ranking of it.
I would pick Trick of a Tail and it ranks high for me in their catalog and may be their best or second best album top to bottom.
Good topic for ANY Sea of Tranquility show?
Favorite albums / least favorite albums with BOB EZRIN as producer. From the first Alice Cooper one to the latest Deep Purple (or which now is Bob Ezrins newest effort). Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel, Kiss, Alice Cooper, Deep Purple and whatever else!
Could be a cool show!
Love In the Prog Seat, but I have to say, how is this even a fair comparison. It’s 4 to 1! 4 top notch players, still perfectly meshed from an already epic career, to one man, basically just starting out on his own. I just think it’s not an even playing field. Pick the top grossing albums of those two acts, that would be more interesting. Just a thought! Peace!
I will say this was a VERY easy choice for me personally, it wasn't even close (Genesis all the way). I don't know if that's proof that this wasn't a fair contest or not...
@@wolf1977 I hear ya, it’s my vote to, but just look at the instrumentation talent Genesis was at that time, undeniable, but let’s put “So” up against “Invisible Touch” and then we would have something to discuss!
I know I'm not talking about the subject at hand but, whoever came w/the idea of pitting Peter Gabriel's So against Gensis' Invisible Touch.
Like this matchup, it wouldn't be a fair fight. I happen to own both albums and I can say that So would win hands down. However, I'm not a fan of the song Sledgehammer. My favorites are Red Rain, Don't Give Up and In Your Eyes. The only songs I like on Invisible Touch are Throwing It All Away and In Too Deep. I think Tonight, Tonight, Tonight goes on a little too long. Land of Confusion and Invisible Touch are goofy at best. Anything She Does is a catchy pop tune. And I don't remember The Brazilian or Domino all that well.
Here’s an idea…
Battle of ‘86: GTR, Invisible Touch, and So.
Good one.. - I saw all 3 tours!😄