Arriva Trains Wales - Really a failed franchise? | Failed Franchises #4 - Arriva Trains Wales
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- Опубликовано: 1 мар 2024
- Hello & welcome to the fourth episode of Failed Franchises. In this series I look at train companies that have failed at their franchise agreements or have been criticised by passengers & industry alike. Today is Arriva Trains Wales - legally they haven't been stripped of their franchise, but can they be classed as a failed franchise for their intense criticisms from industry and passengers alike? That's what I'm trying to answer today!
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Well my longest video yet! Hope you did enjoy and leave any suggestions as to what my next Failed Franchise video should be below! Thanks for watching :D
Having travelled on SailRail with both Arriva and TfW for 22 years, the SailRail product offering needs a complete overhaul - for example, starting from Manchester Victoria, there needs to be loco-hauled direct services to Holyhead and in first class coaches and some of these could be in express services too
I am 30seconds into the video, and before I continue, as somebody who lives in Wales, I will answer your question. YES!!! OMFG, YES! They were that bad. I used to have to get on the train every morning and take it 2 stops in the wrong direction because there was a 50/50 chance that when it came back it wouldn't stop because it was too full. During summer, the queues at Barry Island station were mental, sometimes over 2 hours to get on a 2 carriage Pacer. TfW has a lot of flaws, but at least we can see that they are investing in trying to improve things now.We are getting lifts in stations and new trainscoming eventually. For Arriva, we, the passangers were just a cash cow where they crammed on 2 carriage trains to capacity and took our money with none of it re-invested in anything other than dividends for the shareholders.
Haha well maybe I should've seen it first hand! I'm sure I did go on ATW at some point (me and my family go to Cardiff yearly) but I can't visibly remember! I agree that it seems TFW is an improvement, and the new trains will help things (or should)!
@@Vanmanyo At the moment, we are a period of hope. Its still bad, but not as bad. I don't get on the train in the opposite direction any more, but I still have to stand.
I say hope because the new trains are here. I can see them parked up from my house, but they have been here for over a year now, it feels like they are there to taunt us. But my wife says that she got one yesterday morning instead of our usual class 150's, so maybe they are coming soon.
I think for me personally, it is the little improvements that are making things better, such as all of the stations having lifts now. My mum is in a wheel chair and our main station only has one exit so when she came to visit, she would have to go to the end of the line and come back so she could get off the right platform to leave the station. These things don't affect many people, but for those that do, it is showing that things are getting better. Just very slowly
Arriva took over my local bus service and cut it. Absolute scum in my opinion
Same here. Bastards.
If arriva wasn’t so stubborn on replacing old dmu’s and lowering overcrowding they may still be in service today. In the valleys pretty much everyone got tired with just the sight of a pacer let alone riding in.
Similar in London, they’re loosing so many bus routes cuz they aren’t converting to electric buses. Hopefully they fully go
Sorry, what trains in the valleys(?) One line practically has none and at least a few stations constantly shut for over a year now. At least with the pacers there was trains on the lines.
There's franchises that were denied an extension (despite deserving one) - like GNER, South West Trains, and Arriva Trains Wales.
And then there are the really wretched failed franchises that were right to be 'killed off' - such as Connex South Central/Connex South Eastern, WAGN, Thames Trains, National Express East Coast, and One.
And then there are the existing franchises which definitely have a question mark against them - Northern, Southern, Avanti West Coast, and TPE.
In all honesty, I think the time has come to bring the railways back together again under a state-run roof. It's bonkers not having one organisation that's responsible for both track, trains, and stations. Really it just no longer makes any sense.
Why do you think the Swiss, and the Japanese haven't copied us? Because they both know this doesn't make sense. It's a recipe for failed communications, and sometimes disaster (Railtrack, Potter's Bar, Hatfield, Ladbroke.Grove etc).
Why can't the UK admit it's got it wrong when it comes to railway privatisation, get off its high horse, be abit more humble; and learn from the Swiss, and Japanese. How have both got things so right, where we've got them so wrong?
Agreed! Nationalisation can work with government investment
JR group is fully privatized except JR hokkaido and JR shikoku tho. Although Japan has a history of private railways where there is true direct competition, often with more than 1 company serving similar journeys on their own tracks. Privatization in the west where railways were always centrally planned and built will not work, because no matter how hard you try to introduce competition there wouldn't be any.
@@kalute ...oh ok. But it's funny how Japan can still make privatised railways a success, and crucially 'end user (passenger) focused', and not 'shareholder' focused. Again, this is why in the UK, we've got things so wrong.
Northern, Southern and TPE are all nationalized at this point. That Avanti managed to get its contract renewed is beyond me, though to be fair, the on board product is still good and on board service is excellent, their main issue is a very high rate of cancelled services and shockingly high fare prices when compared to their closest equivalent LNER. The 390 is still the best train in the UK, change my mind.
Southern run by GTR (go ahead)but heavily dft controlled/confined.... BRING BABK BRITISH RAIL, AS IT WAS not this stupid government plan for new great British rail, time to stop paying other countries to run our trains, it people abroad that are benefiting not us
These videos are incredibly interesting. Keep on making them please!
Thank you!
Nice to see nothing has changed now the government has taken over transport for wales, 1 or 2 car trains for about 100 - 200 people. Going in a Transport for wales trains is genuinely a horrible experience.
Yeah I was visiting Pontrypridd in February last year and the trains were just 2 car 150s filled to the brim! Even on the footage you can see it's standing room only on the Cardiff trains!
why they even bothered getting 2 car 197s is beyond me, those should've all been 4 to 5 car sets, at least give that crapbucket some decent capacity instead of running Holyhead>Cardiff on a 2 car train with a broken toilet. They were forced to get the 197s because CAF could build them fast and cheap it would've taken Stadler years to build enough 231s to meet TfWs needs and the 231s always stay in South Wales. Their best rolling stock are the MK4 sets, but the tradeoff is they're slower than the DMUs because of the 80mph max speed for loco hauled between Crewe and Cardiff, the 67s can only open the taps between Crewe and Manchester where they can do 110 (max speed on WCML for non-tilting).
Travel regularly in the valleys the old 150 s are now knackered but still giving good service but are now very tired but still giving amazing service 🏴
Thanks Dan, a very thorough and well-researched history of a train operator. I wouldn't say they were a failure - they seemed to run out of steam! I loved the clip of the cat strolling across the tracks.
Whoever runs the trains in Wales, why don’t they just be honest and call themselves “Cardiff Rail” as it’s a poor service everywhere else in Wales.
In North Wales we actually have nearly full 197s whereas the South has 153s running still (Excluding the long distance Manchester-Cardiff route). Perks of the 197s train care depot being in Chester!
Perhaps "Colonialism Rail" until Cymru gets her much-deserved independence!
@@caramelldansen2204 Fine, see you at passport control at both Abergavenny and Hereford.
I’ve been on Arriva Trains Wales a few times, but in late June 2019, I moved to a house next to a railway line (between Chirk and Ruabon) of which when Transport For Wales took over, my mum actually thought it was Virgin Trains West Coast that were passing under a bridge near our house, this was because of the *VERY* confusing livery, a few month later, I finally told her that it was Transport For Wales, not VTWC operating there, although she still believed it was VTWC up until around October 2019.
Another great video packed with information! UK railways are generally still a bit of a mess. I'm not sure how long it will take until our railways to properly improve.
Thank you!
Lovely video as always
Great video!
Thank you for a very interesting video 😊😊
I've several torrid memories of traveling along the North Wales coast (I'm from the area) back in the days before privatization if there was a cancellation, individual stationmasters could take it upon themselves to arrange taxi's for vulnerable passengers. After the station maser had to contact Manchester, and they would send a taxi from Manchester... yup, Manchester. On one occasion I'd travelled from the south coast of England for work and was carrying a shit ton of tools, when my train was delayed meaning I missed my connection to the last train of the day along the Conwy valley. And I wasn't the only one, there was another passenger and she had a cello, so after standing freezing on the station for about two hours and specifying that we needed a 'large capacity' vehicle like an estate car or minibus, we got a Renault Meganne... and so the process began again, station master (and to be fair the Taxi driver) contacted Manchester and told them that there was no way the two of us could fit in the cab with our baggage. Solution? 'Could you leave some of your things behind?'.
Also following the Hatfield rail disaster, newer rolling stock was taken to serve Manchester, as their older stock was taken out of service. In one 5 day week, I spent a total of 24 hours sitting waiting for delayed or cancelled trains on a route that was only 40 mins long.
Wow it seems like it wasn't great back then! ATW & TFW definitely seem like an upgrade! At least BR tried to get you home - despite the smaller car! Thanks for the really insightful comment though!
@@Vanmanyo On one occasion (during the same period) I arrived about 5 mins early for a 19;00 train from Bangor back to Holyhead. As I looked at the departure board, I saw everything for the next 12 hours go 'Cancelled' when I asked what arrangements had been made. The stationmaster shrugged and said 'There's a hotel across the road...'
Something I always found odd as a Welsh speaker is something from the Arriva days that continues to present is that my local line (the Cambrian Line) goes through Welsh speaking communities, yet the announcement on trains are exclusively in English, platform announcements are bilingual but nothing on the trains, whilst services in South Wales, which is much less Welsh speaking, had bilingual announcements throughout
I think TFW have said that all their services that travel in Wales should have Welsh announcements. Perhaps bring it up with TFWs social media! The Cambrian routes do go through England so maybe they don't want Welsh announcements when in Birmingham or something? Seems strange especially as, like you said, they do it in South Wales!
thats very odd. siarad â thrafnidiaeth cymru?
@@Vanmanyo on the liverpool-chester shuttle its spoken in welsh aswell as the manchester airport - holyhead route. ive only travelled on the birmingham route as far as chester but that was in welsh too for my journey. agreed though its definitely something that tfw should investigate. btw loving the longer content
ydw, roedd Arriva ddim yn ddefnyddio Cymraeg chwaith, ond mae’n od bod Trafnidiaeth Cymru dim yn defnyddio Cymraeg hefyd, enwedig efo’r llywodraeth Cymru trio cael miliwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg
Aye I think that I should… a solution I thought of, considering how technology has progressed, is that the recordings done on the trains be bilingual just for the stations in Wales? That way they won’t have “y gorsaf nesaf yw Birmingham New Street the next station is Birmingham New Street” haha
You occasionally get Mk4 sets short formed replaced with a single 153 during peak time services out of Shrewsbury, as its all they have in the sidings to chuck on it.
Would pick the 153 tbf
TBH, all this can be viewed in hindsight - the contract that was signed and how government dictated that however was the weakest part of it. People forget that it was a 'no-growth' contract. ATW were forced in every way to run 'their' fleet (I say 'their' in commas, because like all other TOPs they were at the mercy of the Train leasing companies unless they paid 'in the nose' for supposedly 'up-to-date' rolling stock which the requirements for became silly, expensive and unrealistic after a while.) The fact that they managed to open stations and lines under such a contract, along with keeping the fleet going for as long as did on very busy lines, is actually a great achievement. If many were in ATW's shoes and unable to do many of the things they wanted to do, then naturally many would take the extra cash to make it worth their while. The 'access' issue of the trains was more a government stipulation, not a common passenger complaint. Further, TfW, despite all the bluster, hype, PR, among many other things, are so much more unreliable now and unapproachable, that you can't even send in an FoI request via email to them despite this being against FoI guidelines. TfW promised much by at least this month, but have not delivered at all (in fact, there's more stations and lines closed under TfW than were open under ATW!) - The criticisms of ATW do not take into account the 'no-growth' contract limitations and the train leasing companies that ultimately led to ATW giving up the francise. Would prefer them back than TfW Rail.
Agreed with a lot here but I do think TFW will improve when the new fleet and metro is all running (but the May TT in Cardiff has been terrible!)
Tom Joyner actually swiftly left CrossCountry a few weeks ago. The situation is a bit weird, with him not even acknowledging, which makes you wonder if something else is going on behind the scenes.
Ah odd! On his LinkedIn it says/said he was still at XC hence why I said so! Thanks for the confirmation though - and certainly seems odd. Clearly had ties to Arriva.
Cross Country about to lose their franchise? I was half expecting them to get the outgoing 221s from Avanti once Avanti's 805s enter service.
@@mrvwbug4423 They won't lose their franchise. XC just announced a refurbishment of their voyagers (well not announced but everything has been leaked!)
Amazing video! I have changed my mind a little Arriva were not that bad but that poor contract what where the government thinking?
Thank you! Do check out my other stuff 😀
I used to work for arriva west sussex busses and in my experience it was standard for arrival to not invest in new vehicles and was standard for faults reported to be signed off as fixed when a fitter had not even been near the said vehicle or fault should ne er be allowed to operate in the UK as far a i'm concerned
Same situation in London
When i lived in Craven Arms, I used to regularly travel to Shrewsbury. I liked the 175s. They're nice clean, quiet efficient modern trains. It wasn't ATWs fault that the wheels were damaged or one hit a tree. That is poor track condition.
I hate 150s though. They're noisy, dirty, smelly and slow. Im surprised they're still running after 40 years. Im glad i never traveled on a pacer.
Atw done their best to provide services here in south Wales they opened my local line to ebbw vale the old pacers gave a good service in the valleys for so many years tfw when it came in had a network that was starved of investment for many years only now is the new trains entering service the old sprinters are knackered after 40 years amazing service so good to see new stock entering service my late dad was a guard in the valley lines back in the 70s when the network was on its knees and some of the lines came very close to closing with the old knackered 116 units
The problem with ATW as now with Tfw is they're fighting with one hand tied behind their back in terms of rolling stock acquisition.
Though that said the 197s are already unfit for purpose when they're on the longer distance runs (Manchester-Cardiff, Holyhead-Cardiff etc).
Yeah I can attest to that. Was visiting the UK last week, took the train to Conwy from Shrewsbury. Going out was on a 4 car 158 which was fine. Coming back was a 2 car 197 with its one and only toilet being out of service. They were originally going to run all the way to Cardiff from Holyhead like that, but found us a last second replacement train at Chester, a 3 car 197 with one of its two toilets out of service, but at least one worked and my wife and I were only going as far as Shrewsbury anyway. Absolutely nobody likes the 197s, the 30+ year old 158s are legitimately better trains.
ATW were always doomed to fail. Their contract was poor and the intention was always to take the network under Welsh Government control. In my experience, the service (post ATW) is poorer, more expensive and less integrated. Thank you Mark.
Thanks for watching Mark, I would hugely appreciate a subscription as I get very close to 4k subscribers! But yes you are absolutely correct! There really should've been a rewrite of the contract, or they should have foreseen passenger growth (given that was the whole point of privatisation!). TFW isn't amazing no, but hopefully in 5 or so years when they have all their new stock in place then the service should run more integrated. Thanks again!
How many have missed the comment that Network Rail invest only 1% of their budget in Wales despite there being 6% of track. This hasn’t changed. Rail in Wales is being set up to fail by Westminster and should be devolved as soon as possible.
I really dont think they were too bad. They expanded services and how you described it sounded brilliant, they integrated welsh stations names and phone line which shows they cared about the communities they served and had one of the best punctuality records. The union strike action although annoying i can let that go as that could and has happened to many operators and its the government who sanctions new rolling stock so ATW could only do their best with what they had to work with ❤
I think your Welsh pronunciation is good. You did the Ll’s well. The “Aberron” threw me completely though. I had to rewind it a few times! I think you meant Abercynon. (Abb-err-kun-non) people often make a mistake with Pontypridd too (it’s Pont-errr-prith (th as in “the” “the book” - not Pont-tea-prith”)) Y in Welsh is urghhhhh
Thanks! Yeah my Welsh isn't the best, at least I pronounced the "ff" in Pontrypridd!
I still have no idea how Macynllyth is pronounced, literally every person I asked pronounced it different, though the locals definitely are trying to cough something up on the 'll" sound.
Tfw is still crap. Every time I travel on them I don’t get a seat and always stand in the vestibule
Arriva runs London Overground and Chiltern railways very well. I think Arriva was set up to fail with its Northern and Welsh franchises
I liked Wexham and Shropshire and don't understand why it collapsed.
Lucky for you I have a video tomorrow on it!
As someone who went on quite few atw trains I thought they were ok, I hope ive been on a pacer
They did not fail though? Their terms with the Welsh Government did not include growth (in passenger numbers) so they ran as they were supposed to.
That's sort of the whole point of the video - discussing whether they should be deemed failed or not by passengers and the industry.
Maybe do London midland??? I'm not sure the info about it but yh
Ariva are the worst of the worst example you barley never get a seat from picadilly to crewe or nantwich i once saw an elderly person sat on the floor so you judge for yourself they are disgusting !!!
ATW was generally OK, although some of the stock was a bit old and tatty.
Wuh Oh new Vanmanyo(🥰🥰🥰) video, cleanup "ARRIVA"ing on Isle MY PANTS
I am very close to blocking you
@@Vanmanyo sorry mummy
@@poopoodealer8975 I'm joking poopopdealer8975 don't worry
@@Vanmanyo thank you mummy
Arriva has to be one of the worst train/bus operators absolutely shocking company
9:22 did i have a stroke or did he say ECTS ? Can anyone else confirm?
Maybe I did - I meant ETCS ofc ofc
@@VanmanyoIs there a specific reason why the Cambrian coast line runs ETCS? I heard it was a pain retrofitting it onto the 158s, and apparently even the 197s weren't specced out with ETCS equipment from the get go. And I would assume the 158 is only going to function at level 0, maybe level 1 though the line supports level 2 though I could never imagine a DMU ever running ATO.
@@mrvwbug4423 The 197s for the Cambrian are being fitted with ETCS from factory and the rest have provision for it if it's needed at a later date
@@mrvwbug4423 From what I've read, the Cambrian badly needed a signalling upgrade and it was a good place to trial ETCS on the GB network. I can see why; fairly isolated, one operator, one model of rolling stock, low frequency if something did go wrong.
These are great videos, and I have no problem with you mangling Welsh. I was born in Cardiff, and I still do that. (Cymro di cymraeg)Isn't it?, my compatriots might tell me. Born too early to learn it! But, lovely as your vids are, and they are, can I suggest you slow down on your narrative, and stop swallowing your vowels at the close of speech?
Thanks I appreciate your comment! I certainly try my best to speak as clearly as possible, but when you're recording for an hour (which it took to voiceover this video) you soon want to get it over and done with hence why some of my narrative may be too fast. I do apologise for this and hopefully my more recent videos have been an improvement!
@@Vanmanyo Thanks for replying to me. Your videos are great. Some of the best on here. As I often say, Pip Pip!
@@grangetowncardiff6935 I genuinely appreciate your support and thanks again! 😄
Can i go on a train ride with you
Sure
The truth is they were to English for the Labour Welsh government 😊