World of Warcraft Is About To Change
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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Dragonflight's content has clearly learned lessons from the storytelling of FFXIV, and it shows, because some of this stuff is great. However, the actual story is still going to be clowned on ,and they have a long way to go. Here's my review of how Dragonflight is different, and the same, thanks to FF's influence.
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Man, it sure would've been nice if they learned things before irreversibly ruining several major characters and all of the titan lore
not to mention driving away a majority of the players.
ruining it's legacy and foundation too. Lost all interest in any future lore as a result because it's all been muddied going forward.
THE GAME IS AT THE POINT OF NO RETURN, ITS BECAUSE THEY MISSED UP EVERYTHING
i thought it was cool.
🧂
G'raha Tia eats a burger? Time to play Endwalker. No more waiting.
How you've somehow avoided the burger scene for close to a year now I am amazed at. It's like the ONE non-spoiler Endwalker scene that gets shared constantly.
@@UltimaKeyMaster I mostly listen to FF14 videos in the background unless it's about Stormblood or whatever, so I never noticed lol. I played a bit of endwalker so I assume I know exactly where this is, pretty excited to come back
At the end of the day, every individual Dragonflight zone story could be a 10/10, but I don't think that would actually fix WoW's core problem: Follow-Through. WoW knows how to tell good stories, usually in zones but occasionally even in the main expansion story, their problem is that every time a new expansion comes out 99% of the game gets thrown in the trash and forgotten.
The most obvious ways have been via borrowed-power, but it happens narratively too. Think about how many times you've gotten Exalted with a faction in a previous expansion only for them to show up later with a slightly different name and go "who the hell are you, Adventurer?"
Until Blizzard can prove that they not only care about telling a good story, but care about CONTINUING that story, it will never have the same emotional resonance as a game like FFXIV
Amen.
This.
Until WoW figures out how to make all its content relevant, including story, it's just a really good MMO, not the best MMO the way it was for a decade or more.
This is I think the MAJOR reason I found FFXIV so compelling after being done with WoW. I was always told "ARR can be a bit of a drag, but don't skip it" and gosh I'm so glad I didn't. It sets up the story for the rest of everything to come. In WoW, there is no 'main story quest'. There's just scrambled bits of lore thrown together.
Agreed. WoW has always had good stories. Even shadowlands had good stories. They just don't know how to tie it together nor how to tell it in a satisfying way.
I spent an expansion watching Yrel grow into a powerful paladin that would fight by my side.
Heart broken to know the character (like so many others) will be either dropped or corrupted into a dumb boss.
WoW doesn't tell stories, it just skinned, walked around in, and used the story Warcraft 3 told.
Obviously they played FFXIV to learn from it! They could have never ripped off the ending to 3.3 to wrap up Anduin's arc in Shadowlands otherwise. And copied the Azem crystal... And make a race of ancients with the power of creation who speak in musical tones...
Looking to competitors for inspiration isn't a bad thing. But you do have to make it your own. Like if Bahamut was inspired by Deathwing, you can see how Bahamut is integrated into the lore to become it's own. From the origin of the prison, who imprisoned him, the resulting calamity, who resolved it, how it impacted the world and peoples memories which tied into ARR's start itself, the corruption of aether, etc.
Some of that stuff is still has impact or meaning throughout the 4 expansions.
A lot of the Shadowlands stuff just sort of appeared. There wasn't that much build up, and while integration could happen later it's just kinda ... meh I guess?
@@OriginalGames2 Bahamut is far older than DW though x-D
@@warllockmasterasd9142 I could be wrong but I think it was a hypothetical that proved the point, not the actual supposition.
@@warllockmasterasd9142 that is what I thought. I'm trying to remember the first time i saw bahumut in ff (bahumut exist outside ff as well). I think the first time was when ff2 was first released in the states (it was actually ff4 in the timeline) when he lived on the moon....omg I remember his mega flare in that game now.
@@adjwindu70 Bahamut is in FFI, he is how you upgrade your classes.
WoW doesn't respect what it built. That's their biggest story problem, to me. They create interesting races, and interesting world lore, and then completely flush it down the toilet for the next expac, the new race, and new lore. They don't keep the whole of Azeroth relevant, and because they create new races and lore with every expansion, it all feels really disconnected.
An example of how FFXIV succeeds where WoW fails is, the races they introduced in ARR are still relevant to what's happening later. Without spoiling anything, they never stop being relevant. It's not like in WoW where they created the Taunka, and then you never heard about them again. The FFXIV Beast Tribes still make appearances in meaningful moments even as far out as Endwalker, ten years after they made their debut in FFXIV.
WoW has to figure out how to integrate what it built with what they're trying to build. If they don't, then it's just another disjointed story with some high points, but ultimately unsatisfying because it'll just get shoved to the side when the NEXT expansion comes along.
Because any of that fanboying for ff14 had anything to do with the video lol
@@OhNoTheFace I mean, if you can't the connection, there's not much I can do for you.
And we don’t even need to play FF14 to have that criticism.
It was a constant criticism especially starting BfA when the flaw was becoming blatantly obvious.
While I applaud the introduction Exile’s Reach in SL, directly leading to the latest expansion just re-affirmed that Blizzard has no respect for any of their previous content.
Hell, Blizzard completely forgot Gilneas existed in WotLK.
And it’s hilarious seeing the backtracking Ion is doing. There are not enough High Elves to be an Alliance faction, but Void Elves, which are minuscule in comparison, somehow are?
I guess that’s the other thing. It’s not even a lack of respect, it’s a blatant disrespect and spite to the players.
"Losing to XIV has changed WoW forever"
Good. They need to keep losing. They need to have their smug prick noses ground into the abject failure of Shadowlands and rousing success of Endwalker. I'm probably going to go through DF in the first few weeks, might even do the first raid with my guild, but I'm not going in with any rose tinted goggles or the intent to sub for more than a couple months because I just don't have faith that it can hold my attention with worthwhile shit to do and a reason to give a damn about the characters.
Dragonflight will not be a rousing success. I don't even think it's going to be a modest success. At best, it's going to be a mediocre MMO expansion, but that's all it needs to be. Blizzard needs to be shown they're not the kings anymore, and in fact they have a long way to go before people will even consider going back to them, especially aver they just repeatedly shat on the lore and player expectations in SL (Sylvanas's entire "arc," Arthas's second "death," turning one of the most iconic helms in gaming history into a quest green, ripping the Anduin ending from HW 3.3 note for note, utterly trivializing the concept of the afterlife in-universe...)
Don't get me wrong, I want WoW to be good again. I want to have two stellar MMOs to play wherein some days I have to make the hard choice of "Man, do I wanna play WoW today, or XIV today?" But the WoW dev team and Blizzard as a whole, as I said, need to be taught a lesson for the years of prior transgressions against their playerbase.
It would help if the fans don't go all 'copium' like and just slurp up whatever they are served like addicts (especially so when its not ready to be consumed yet). Judge fairly, but judge.
ActiBlizz only seem to improve their ways when the loss of monies is involved, via the loss of subs.
@@CosmicCleric (Non WOW player here +no experience of WOW) I watched documentary of WOW without knowing game........but it felt like to me blizzard started the downhill not really randomly past 2-3 years but since they became "ACTIVISION" blizzard? Let me know if it is a thing ^^
It’s going to be a huge financial success. Despite how garbage BFA was, at one point Shadowlands was the fastest selling PC game in history at like 4mil in one day. Whether we like it or not, tons of people buy these expansions even if they don’t stick with the game in the long run. To be properly humbled they’ll need a major flop to shake things up and I doubt Dragonflight is going to be that failure to do it. I wouldn’t be surprised if it outsold Shadowlands, especially considering the mostly good press they’ve been getting about it.
FF14 is still not better than wow,go fucking dream.Reading this was mega cringe
@@tronam I think the allegations and the one-two bullshit BFA-SL was will make people a lot more skeptical, as well as the mass exodus to XIV a year or so ago and that now has its hooks in a ton of people. You're right, it'll probably be a big financial success at launch, but they're probably going to be struggling to move pre-orders after SL, as well as make sales outside of their core fanbase.
The problem with your initial logic here though is that MMOs don't live and die by the sales of expansions alone, they need player retention for either maintaining subs or selling cash shop items or services. They need to not only move a lot of units on day 1, but they need to keep people around and grow their userbase beyond their loyal whales, which is something that WoW has been failing at ever since SL started, if not sooner in BFA.
It won't fail immediately, but as the expac goes on, if there's not anything to do or see and people start leaving in droves again, I think the pressure will really be on.
The jailers final words haunt any hope that it will be more grounded
What are you talking about, it has been grounded and prepared since Warcraft 3
I hope they completely retcon that shit in a dew years we'll be asking, what jailer?
Maybe not grounded, just has to be consistent.
The A plot being bad is the big warning flare, because the A plot is what management has the most influence on and shows the direction where the company wants to go. So if the A plot is bad then Blizzard has learned nothing, and it will have to flop another expansion until management takes their hands off the reigns and let the people that are making side quests actually work on the main plot
🧂
Well almost everyone at Blizzard is new, all the old employees left or were fired, and a new employee can't learn from mistakes they weren't there to make.
only main story wise, yes. an xpac won't directly flop because the A plot isn't amazing, it just may not have as much sticking power or hype. People have been hating on the A plot a lot of the time since Cata. They have some lead writers that they just wont get rid of it seems. Honestly, I haven't really cared for the plot, besides legion, since cata which is when I noticed more people talking about it. MoP had good elements but overall had quite a lot that people weren't fond of. the overall A plot wasn't that appealing to me. I don't like alternate timeline stuff all that much as a core focus, especially when what we get follows. next to nothing. maybe some evil draenei later but over all it didn't matter besides guldan and that could've also had been solved with some kinda revival of guldan. Also, WoD killed Maraad which I wasn't fond of.
Good thing that they are getting better and learning. But feels a little too late. I'm not going to play dragonflight but I don't want MMO genre to suffer, so I wish all the luck to everyone who is.
WoW continuing to fail doesnt mean the MMO genre is suffering. If anything, WoW failing has meant that the MMO is outgrowing the alleged limits that WoW was never able to overcome. As WoW fails, most of the things that people claimed for years were not possible turn out to be very possible.
Look at FFXIV. Its proving that you can do so many things that WoW gaslighted the MMO genre into thinking were not possible:
- Raiding without having it be a second job.
- Excellent class balance.
- Raiding without fillers. Quality over quantity.
- Great narratives and cohesive storyline.
- Great and interesting gathering/crafting systems.
- Evergreen previous expansion content.
- Content that is not tied to borrowed power progression.
- Complete jobs without need for fake choice talents.
@@torashiki5646 I’m an FFXIV savage raider, and yes you are correct. But back in the day WoW still was a great innovator in the genre. I’d still like it to not die.
@@AlishN7 Sadly as long as WoW doesnt actually improve for real, it getting any kind of success due to fanboys buying their products will just mean that said bad practices, philosophies and mentalities that held back the MMO genre for years are being nothing but rewarded and maintained.
WoW needs to fail, at least until corporate/management leaves it alone, and the game can be properly overturned from the rot that years and years of mistakes, some dating to Vanilla like it or not, have caused.
@@AlishN7 Considering FFXI is older than WoW and still makes enough money to support itself, I can assure you that WoW will last forever.
The tragedy here is WoW failing so hard it lowered people’s expectations enough to play FF14.
If they learned from final fantasy xiv thats great, final fantasy xiv learned from them when the game was... you know... actually good
Long ago and far away.
🧂
Wow, it feels fresh to see Matt on the screen instead of Bellular, but it also feels natural. Matt is the perfect partner to Bellular
Matt actually thinks about things instead of giving shallow comments like "hermes is depressed and that's sad, innit?"
Yeah, he gives consistently biased takes on how amazing the story off FF14 is and how all other stories are bad... which is true I suppose if you like ayaya and cat girls biting into IMPOSSIBLY big hamburgers. So cute amirite?
This has the feeling of the sidequests/factions being done by one team, and the main plot being written by another. And that's how a game HAS to be written, when there's that much story to put in it! But it speaks of an already-discussed sort of... rot at the head of the WoW stories as of late. The B team has the humility/knowledge/creative verve to take lessons from elsewhere, but the A team is still convinced that they know what they're doing.
"And that's how a game HAS to be written,"
The Hell it does. Just storyboard it like they do for movies, then people code/develop off of the storyboard.
Gaming is just another form of media entertainment, they can borrow practices from others like films.
Edit: To answer your overall point, I think the issue is more of one of where a grandiose story line is created, but the realities of selling the product before an quarterly earnings report is due stomps all over the time needed to do the work to implement the story line properly/completely.
@@CosmicCleric When you have that much story to tell, so many SEPARATE stories to tell, and only so many hours in a day and days in a week and a functional deadline of when you've got to get the thing out the door, you delegate. You put a set amount of people on each set of writing tasks, and you presume that they're all up to it. Dividing up the work doesn't have to make all of that work inherently worse, and it's not like each team is one or two people just writing things down on fast food wrappers and typing it in. They all likely storyboard, brainstorm, scriptwrite, and do other things that media are known for.
Many lore-focused WoW players consider that the best stories in WoW are in those side stories, while the main story tends to be far more at the whims of "we must have Big Character do This Thing!" or "we must have a Big Moment to make a cinematic about" or even "I'm a Very Good Writer and what I say goes, no I'm not taking feedback". The only thing that unifying all of WoW's story into this theoretical single storyboard-using team would do is make everything suck, and make there be no side stories worth noting.
@@lampdevil a long-ass reply that ignored my point, which is you just have the main Storyteller storyboard everything and then other people just work off of that.
Doesn't matter how many people and how many departments you have, when they all work off at the same "bible".
And your notion about it would suck if only one person is working on the story, if that's the case, then you have the wrong person as the main storyteller, and you get another one.
It's not that hard, they do it in the movies for every movie.
@@CosmicCleric Your point doesn't make sense, or we're talking past each other. A movie is not a game, they don't have the same structure or the same writing needs.
And the WoW staff doesn't seem to be in much of a hurry to replace the head writer, even when the stuff he's been making has been kind of bad, sooooooooo.....
@@lampdevil Actually the storytelling in a game is just like a movie, or a TV show. The presentation is different, but they're both entertainment media.
Having a Kevin Feige type person create the storyboarding (aka 'marching orders') for others to follow is totally feasible to do, as its done elsewhere already.
BTW, appreciate the *non* -verbose reply, ty. :)
Tragically the actual 'world' of WoW was it's main attraction to me. Trying to improve it means nothing since I already loved it. It was all the things around it that were and are STILL ruining it that drove me away. I know all the work into introducing and getting to know these characters means literally nothing, because they'll never be referenced again outside of maybe showing up as a quest giver next expansion or dying for cheap pathos. The game will focus on 'the pillars' of raids, m+, and pvp and vomit out plot points I can no longer care about.
Context for the player's existence in the world is so much more important than you'd think. Being just a little bit of entity within the world gives the other characters someone to bounce off of, making them feel more alive. Instead of thinking in terms of "I like this character because they did X" you're given the opportunity to think "I like this character because of who they are to me, personally."
The latter is SO much stronger - not just from a narrative standpoint, but from a marketing and player retention standpoint as well. This is why there's at least one FFXIV character trending on twitter every single day of the week.
I think it's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too early to be talking about story right now. People felt the exact same thing with BfA, and we all saw how that story turned out. There's still way too many unknowns.
they are huffing hopium right out of the sheep's ass if they think the guy who made Elune a fucking robot has any idea how to work a plotline.
It's human nature to be naively optimistic. This is why it's so easy to build hype even with mediocre content. Consumers get burned multiple times and they still don't learn.
@@Miranox2 I learned my lesson with Anthem. I've never been as disappointed as I was with that game.
@@HallowedKhaos91 Ah right, Bioware's Warframe - but with Jetpacks - paid demo.
That existed for a brief, but terrible, moment.
So sad that they couldn't even bring themselves to load up the microtrans store before declaring the game DoA.
@@Ebonheart2319 The game had so much potential. It should have been pushed back. People would have complained but at least we might have gotten a better game.
They definitely do need more scripted difficult encounters for capstone enemies at the end of quest lines etc. They have this fear that some percentage of the player base won't be able to complete them, but that will just lead to people asking for help and more community building. Being able to pop your cooldowns and delete the "big bad" in 4 seconds is a joke and always feels bad.
You guys keep saying Blizzard is learning but every business choice is terrible and they still suffer from many design philosophy flaws that haven't changed at all
In this instance they're saying devs have learned (which is cumulative, not complete). Which are a completely different group of people to those you're talking about. Don't get me wrong I'm not defending anyone, I've abandoned all Acti-blizz products. But if you're gonna argue then at least argue correctly.
@@Reshapable The problem is that sometimes people use the term 'devs' to mean the company overall, and not literally just the devs. For some reason people don't (historically) identify the c-suite types uniquely as often as they do the 'devs'.
@@CosmicCleric that *can* be a problem but isnt here. Because the only one that used the potentially confusing word was me.
@@Reshapable I was just responding to the last sentence of your original comment that was responding to the OP's comment, but I was talking about the OP who was using the word laxley instead of specifically.
Remember that in wow the quest designers usually write a lot of the backstory details instead of the writers. The writers do the overarching narrative and the general themes of the factions etc. Side quests in wow usually feel pretty nice because they are the product where the individual designer has a lot of freedom.
Some quests can be tragically good, like in the Kyrian campaign where you play as a human farmer whose hometown is overrun by the Scourge.
To be fair, FFXIV story is an exception that transcends its own genre. Not just MMORPG but the core of RPG storytelling. They have set the standards so high that I wouldn't even think any others will be able to compete. Not especially when others are so obsessed with sneaking identity politics into their games. For WoW to even attempt to compete with FFXIV storytelling is admirable in my opinion.
I love FFXIV, it's one of my favorite games of all time, buy saying it transcended RPG, in general, storytelling is simply insane. Maybe western RPG storytelling. But you should really go play some of the best JRPGs out there to realize how ridiculous that statement is.
Perhaps it's hyperbolic to declare it so but I do believe it. I would add FFXIV along with other titans of yester years. I have played a lot of them. Heck, I stood in line to get Dragon Quest when I was a kid in Japan back in the 80s. I played MMORPG since 1999 and loved and hate variety of them. But ehy do I believe so? Indeed there are notable JRPGs but it doesn't compete with the vastness of MMORPG. For those that have been playing FF14 since the launch, the story spans literally a decade in the making. When a character perish or seeing flashbacks during a cutscene, they are deeper unlike single player RPG. It's hard to convey it. Especially to those that only binges FF14 story unlike what veterans experienced.
@@Owl90 Ive played a lot of rpgs and ff14 has the best and most emotional story out of them all, none of them can compete because how long 14 has to develop their characters.
@@Owl90 I honestly played strictly JRPG and I can say that FF14 did something right that while transcend is a hyperbolic, it is memorable enough to line with the game that excels on that. The uniqueness of FF14 is similar to Nier Automata in the way that it only works because it ended up like that. It is like Suikoden 108 stars character having a full arc where we know how they start and ended, even if it is actually cheesy.
One thing for sure though, hoping that a new mmorpg can actually touch this kind of storytelling is a tall to impossible order. You need a solid team and have a healthy work space which, unfortunately enough, isn't a norm in the industry.
From what I've been reading and hearing (thanks in part to these channels) is that Dragonflight seems to be a step in the right direction. These first steps might be shaky at first because of lack of confidence but I hope that Blizzard eventually finds their stride and improves moving forward.
It's not enough to stop sucking. it's not even enough to be good. It has to actually be better than the competition to convince players to return. The die hards will relapse and that will buy them time but in the long term it needs to run, not walk, up that hill.
WoW's problem at this point is so much bigger than improving their storytelling. Don't get me wrong it needs huge improvements there and huge improvements will help but whereas 14 built a solid foundation and then continued building up, WoW mined out it's foundation... and kept blasting. The world is irrevocably warped, and no matter how well they display what they've come up with, the mess behind it all is... It's like trying to host a primo comedy show... at Auschwitz. Absolutely nothing is going to take my attention away from what came before. And I'm pretty sure nothing should.
Yes, so this. Anyone who has faith in Blizzard still just comes off to me like the abused spouse caught up in the good times.
This reminds me of the Sonic cycle.
It's this time. It's this expansion that will be good.
I very much doubt that. The group loot being forced is just them showing that again.
The game has made me too cynical, because the expansion intro quests and leveling experience are almost always great (admittedly, the SL intro was bad and gave me my first doubts about the expansion itself) but it all falls apart once you hit max level. So I just take the positivity in this video to mean the same trick is gonna be played on us again.
The Wheel keeps turning.
Hopefully someday someone breaks the Wheel.
Yeah, I was thinking about how I've always found the side quests way, way more engaging from a storytelling standpoint than the main story aaaaand it sounds like that's the case again, which is really unfortunate.
So you are here just to whine then
@@OhNoTheFace Better than whining about the "whiners".
it's always okay to advocate for change.
+1 honestly love the more longform videos :D
fresh cut, looking good
If WoW still did quests like the Crusader Bridenbrad and Runas the Shamed ones it would be good first step. But they should do *a lot* more than that.
I've always felt the minor stories in WoW quests have been spectacular and the falloff is always in the major plot of a particular expansion.
Nice haircut bro it looks much better 👍🏽
ha ha ha I was thinking that too!! It looks so nice :D
Something important I think you forgot:
I wonder if the story of Dragonflight will "be over" on launch. Similar to FF MSQ, the initial story was resolved on launch and the subsequent patches resolve some things and pave a road to something new.
Shadowlands taking an entire expansion to resolve is absolutely something that shouldn't happen ever again. Shadowlands was clowned on not only because the story was bad, but also because it was drip-fed in an extremely unsatisfying way.
I watched this to it's end and his plead to blizzard to fix the main is actually crazy how it resonates with all of us. We all hope they make a good or great xpac...but he shows the emotion we all feel.
They should learn from Shadowbringers especially.
The Expansion that solidified FF14.
I honestly know nobody who play WoW for its story, at least not any more. They just want to get throught the leveling process as quick as possible and focus their energy on m+ and raiding.
I'm glad I left that behind a year ago. Now I'm a casual in FF XIV and I enjoy playing an MMORPG or RPGMMO again;)
Hey, I guess any good changes are a win. I am most curious about how their post launch patches release schedule and content diversity will look like. What will they bring with each patch - anything everlasting to the game or something exclusively addon-wide.
I always find it interesting when ff14 had combat tension it's NEVER about the WoL.
In ShB your agency was about controlling the abundance of light before it consumed you. If there was any pivotal moment of of combat where a significant loss happened. You. Weren't. There. Or were on the way.
In ARR you were pulled by the nose to other places to find bread crumbs because if you were present. It would be different.
And the only time it's ever turned against the WoL themselves is Zenos. Because he's been doing this shit his whole life as combat-ready royalty to the point he outright out-levels you the first time you fight him.
The one time they do it, and it 100% makes sense.
I don't know exactly what you mean by "significant loss", but what about the first encounter with Ran'jit or the battle on the way to the ostall imperative where vauthry sics his sin eaters on the crystarium (the one where lyna breaks down after the fact for her failure to protect her soldiers)
That Ardbert-ghost hoping he has a physical body broke me to pieces.
Nice haircut, Matt. 👍
As a massive lore fan, atp i dont even care if the main plot is bad. I just want the game itself to be fun to play. Its sad my expectations and wants have been lowered that bad but I just want this game to be fun again.
I feel like atmosphere is the most important thing for wow or it’s what they do best. I can still remember that really distinct magical feeling of loading into azeroth for the first time on each race and just being spellbound whether you're human or elf or orc
Its so funny that side content in WoW is more fun than their actuall big deal... I had tons of fun leveling and question in Drustvar and I was super disappointed that there was zero continuation. Its not helping at all that we are used to nothing else from Blizz: they start strong and then they drop the ball.
Don’t believe or trust Blizzard. How many times do people have to get bitten before they realize this? They do amazing things every so often, but they can never keep it up. I guarantee whatever good comes of DF will be gone in the blinking of an eye.
I honestly wish Blizzard would stop trying to "tell a story" with WoW. It hasn't worked since WotLK. Blizzard is notoriously bad at writing plot, it shows in almost all of their games. But what they are good at, and what WoW was initially very good at, is world building. Blizzard needs to stop trying to outdo ff14's storytelling and just give me the world of warcraft to explore. Write lore, not plots. Remember all the speculation videos we used to get on RUclips about the Old Gods before BFA ruined them? THAT's what Blizzard is good at. I don't care about the 76th big bad impending doom of all of azeroth, I don't care about the psychotic machinations of the 9th Warchief. I DO care, or rather did care, about the strange whispers that could be heard in Icecrown. I cared about the discovery of the titan facility in Uldum. I cared about the faerie circle in Tirisfal, the children in Goldshire, the ghosts in the Plaguelands, the worgen in Duskwood and the (at the time) mysterious Scythe of Elune. THESE were the little stories that captivated my mind and kept me glued to WoW in my youth. When Sargeras and the Void Lords were these ominous dark figures lurking in the background, spoken of in hushed tones. When the possibility of even a single Old God awakening from its slumber was an apocalyptic event. Blizzard is at their best when they lay out the groundwork and let the players connect the dots. They can't write narratives, and that's ok. They just need to focus on their strengths again. Worldbuilding, and fun, moment - to - moment gameplay.
I realised that my biggest issue with WoW's storytelling is that at launch you dont get a story - you get a prologue. If you buy an expansion for ESO or XIV, you get a full story from start to finish with a satisfying boss fight conclusion. For WoW you just get introduced to the NPC factions and maybe the main villain, and then you have to wait nearly a year just to see the conclusion.
If in SL we instead spent the first 6-8 levels going through the covenants as before, but with more focus on explaining the jailers motives, and then the last few levels delving into the maw and setting up a big confrontation with the jailer in the first raid. The following patches could then follow sylvanas' story and set up for dragonflight, still allowing for "new patch new zone new raid" style updates but with much more of a satisfying overall experience
That doesnt seem to be changing in DF either, "the 5 mcguffins got stolen, get them back from the raid" is where story ends atm, and with multiple characters and even the expacs own trailer going "oh the stakes are soon to be so high" it tells that it's a prologue
@@dafire9634 yeah its kinda tiring to only get half a story
I really appreciate how we are expecting more out of Blizzard now. The bar has been set higher, so let's give good constructive criticism like this so they can achieve those heights we know they can. At the end of the day, we are all humans and capable of tremendous things.
It's almost inspiring to see how people still have faith in Blizz. I hope it all works out. I don't believe it will, but I hope it does.
I can’t tell if it’s faith or what people are currently seeing in the game is genuinely good 🤷♀️. I mean, they say it’s looking good but, I thought they also were saying that about SL. Definitely not a safe purchase at the moment.
@@Fxrrxt2x best to wait for the honeymoon period to wear off(around 3 months) to get any real opinions on it
There seems to be some confusion
1. If Blizz starts making the next expansion at the lunch of the current one.. they would be working on DF at the start of SL.
2. If there is a mass Exodus DURING SL, they would already have been working on DF.
If those two points are correct. To "learn from an expansion", wouldn't it have had to be "learned" in BFA, since they were making SL during BFA, and they were making DF in SL.
So the lessons learned from SL would be in the 11.0 expansion (in theory)
Yeah, that is what I was thinking too. According to the timeline presented, the fallout from SL's bad reception was not an influence on DF and that is a bad thing.
@@Turamwdd also, everyone is happy that the developers that made Spellblade (a dead BR game) joined to help with DF.... Isn't DF all done and they would be working on the next expansion?
Everything I've seen so far has done nothing to alleviate my apprehension with regard to DF's story. It's just another case of the big name characters having a story, and we do all the chores and running around. Alexstrasza is going to be having an adventure. Wrathion is going to be having an adventure. We're just riding along while they decide what happens and what *we* do.
I find it sad that the last time I felt absolutely enthralled and captivated by a zone was Drustvar.
Favorite video you guys have posted in a bit. No big spoilers, good takes, measured. Not doomer, not copium. Really excited for a slower pacing and some character coming back to the world.
Say what you will about WoD, but the Garrison system was so fantastic for a lot of what you early points in the video are about. It really gave a good sense of "these are real characters" instead of "click polygonal humanoid, get quest, never think about them again." Even still, FFXIV does this so flawlessly, so I hope to get at least a little more of it in wow. And if people want to zoom and ignore it, that's fine too, but as an RPG fan, I love this stuff.
The perfect game would be the combat engine from WoW but everything else from FF14.
Obviously they're a villain because Tempest Keep was merely a setback. It all boils down to that.
...I'll see myself out. 🤣
Ultimately any story improvement they could make is immediately nulled and void the nanosecond you think about the Shadowlands existing. There are no real consequences anymore.
this actually made me sad. That it took this many years... As someone who has loved warcraft since my childhood.. all ive wanted... is this... but on a wider scale. A reason to continue to care. I dont care about "Activities" i care about being given a reason to love the world.
They haven't learned enough. I'm unable to play through as a new or returning player to catch up on the story. Instead you're just rammed into the latest xpac of content
Thing is I know a lot of people, who think everything you're saying is shit. They want nothing to do with it. Quote: "Keep that shit out of WoW" and "No one cares about the story/lore/character"
The more intelligent among them will simply state that they don't care and just grind out levels to max and get ready for endgame, though they will complain about any story/lore that gets in the way of bis.
The least intelligent however complain, loudly, in forum's that it's taking away development time from dungeons/pvp/raids/etc.
Definitely two sets of customers in conflict with each over, over the direction of the game.
Agreed about the intro stuff where you speak to all of the different NPCs to begin the adventure to DF. Was a lot more fun than I expected it to be for how simple it was.
I’ve been playing beta myself these past couple of days.
Playing Evoker, dragon riding, doing leather working and skinning, ignoring the campaign, and honestly thoroughly enjoyed it!
Can’t wait for it to go live.
I dont want wow story to be any similiar to ff14 and especially that heavy.
"One single important core point" No. It was not about the bad story. It was about the developers thinking that we players are too stupid and therefore disregarded out feedback through the last.. how many expansion betas? How much do we have to grind senselessly for hours and hours through.. let's see.. Apexis Crystals in WoD, Artifact Weapons in Legion, Azerite stuff in Bfa and Renown in Shadowlands?
In Warcraft you have to spent 10 hours of not having fun to have maybe half an hour of fun down the road.
I literally wasted 12 years of my life playing Wacraft for god only knows how much. In the end it was not about the story. It sure did not help, but the problem was the whole core concept of Warcraft which did not stand the test of time.
Standing side by side FFXIV today is a vastly better game than World of Wacraft in almost every single aspect, safe for maybe Mythic + Dungeons. But remember early Shadowlands when you could maybe get 1 piece of loot every 4 mythic + dungeons you ran? Blizzard is trying everything to keep players playing the game even if it means players won't have fun. That is the core problem and if you think that will ever change you are dilluisional.
Oh no. Don’t be positive about WoW. That’s gonna get people upset.
Your audience does want WoW to be good. They’re afflicted to hating it.
Bad move guys
The problem is that we've heard overhype and copium from this channel in the past. Both during BfA and then it went into overdrive during Shadowlands. Both were objectively awful experiences that Bellular tried to raise up because his channel relied on WoW. At what point do we have to have a critical eye to what we're being fed by influencers before mindlessly giving our money for Blizzard to squander and not reinvest again?
Regarding “tonal shifts,” keep in mind sometimes that is done intentionally in order to make the reader think “that didn’t make any sense.” It’s not always just “bad storytelling.”
WoW might trying but after kicking out half the talent, with the other half running away means they can try all they want but will never be anywhere near as good
And they’re going up against a guy who has gotten this right from day one. He managed to turn the most annoying a little shit in the world then I just wanted to murder during the bloody banquet to a genuine leader that I went to the end of the universe with, literally.
Wow can put up all the pretty colors it wants to but it will never be final fantasy 14
You never know, sure ff14 is doing good now and I do hope it continues to do well but it's impossible for ff14 to start going downhill and wow going up and taking over as a more solid and filled with quality content mmo.
Wow has to be ffxiv? 🤨
Fun thought I had.
I liked your delivery. It felt unscripted and engaging. Compared to Bellulars reading off a teleprompter style, it had a warmth and heartfelt desire to tell us your story of your experience.
I’ll admit I’m a hopium addict, but I appreciate your take on the story. I think bellular could do taking up your style as much as wow could use learning from ff style of doing stories.
I'll save my judgment after the release. Still very skeptical but hopeful. Would love to have a reason to try WoW again.
Buy a $4 extension cord for that lamp behind your head. And then snake that cord up a bookshelf leg and secure with some velcro cable ties. Such an eyesore. 🤣
I enjoy that there is a dragon cheesemonger.
I genuinely love Matt videos, he has such a good manner of speaking its such a good listen.
I like that something he says is the same idea as something from Jade Forest in MoP is also something he says they learned from FF. As if they couldn't have said "we need to look at the stuff from our past that people still say worked" and learned from that. Nope, gotta be they're just aping squenix
If Blizzard wants to have people invested in the story arcs, they need to wiping the slate clean every expansion.
There are only so many times you can go from "who's that guy" to "well met, champion, time to safe the world" only to go back to square one for each new expansion.
I know why they do it, so that new players don't feel forced to read up on 15 years of lore, but they are sacrificing emotional impact and long term investment a player could have in the story arcs and their own characters.
FF14 achieves that by keeping around a consistent cast comrades. WoW does not need to mimic FF14 and frankly, I am content with each being their own thing, but having a rotating set of NPC that your characters meets and interacts(!) with regulary could go a long way. And not the big wigs, like Jaina or Thrall.
The SI:7 squad from MoP was great, I would have loved to have them at my side during BfA along with newly introduced friends like Fairwind.
Nah, they're gonna find a way to fuck up Dragonflight.
Man, and I thought *I* was cynical. :p
I mean, Blizzard have found ways to fuck up the following:
WoD
BfA
SL
Warcraft 3: Reforged
HotS
Overwatch
WoW Classic
WoW BC
Diablo Immortal
Pre-judging the story already when most cutscenes and cinematics are not even out yet. As well as the voice acting stuff.
In my experience, it feels worse if you make a big show of caring about things then don't deliver, than if you say up front you don't care... cause of expectations
One thing I don't agree with on matt but also sort've don't like about FF14 is that the FF14 characters rather sit on their hands a vast majority of the time UNTIL you show up and then they do it on screen with you. So they largely don't do anything on their own unless it's to learn something and tell you about an issue they need you to do. The world and the story often come to a HALT until the warrior of light helps them and I'm not particularly fond of that writing. WoW has done that a lot lately too but not as bad to me. I would definitely prefer that we maybe get visions or quests where we become illidan /khagar etc to see the events of the story like those scenarios rather than our character just there pushing the story along.
Also, I agree with the character getting a voice. I rather enjoy that. GW2 has that and I enjoy that sort've storytelling even if I don't like the game's story that much. Atmosphere and immersion are my favorite key ingredients in storytelling for me. Without them, I don't care as much. I'll forget the names of who i have to do things with and events. I do that often with FF14. All we do is focus the main cast with bits of the others. I just can't get that invested since I don't get immersed in the world. I'm only left to care about the main "team" that goes with me.
I'm glad they're willing to try things to improve the gameplay but I have to ask, is the wow community ready for this? In 14 the reason story works is because we as the player base are willing to go through the story, Actually what I should say is we WANT to hear the story and experience it. If the tried and true method of wow is to grab a handful of quests skip dialog and just burn through them all, will they be patient enough to let the story immerse them into the world they're trying to live in?
Well, as long as its better even a little then its good, though i'm very sure those who still play the game will ignore it or even aknowledge it at all, couse its just in the way in getting to endgame.
besides, its WAY to late in my opinion for them to suddenly get good at it, they should have done this 4 years ago if only to avoid Shadowlands entirely.
"The tiktok generation" not all of us in this age group like tiktok lol. Most of those poor sods were taught not to think twice about corperate bs by their parents anyway.
I never minded WoW's plot - I've just always hated RNG in the loot system and class/spec/account restrictions (like covenants at the beginning of Shadowlands)
I'm just glad that I didn't preorder it or continue my sub... I knew they'd find a way to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.
Hopefully they iron out the kinks and sort things out for the people are hyped to play the game! I feel like it'll take at least one more expansion to establish new characters and lore to make the game interesting again. Time will tell if they follow through .
I honestly do not think they have the writing talent to turn this trend around. Even if side content has tiny slivers of hope that they can actually make a decent story, if the main plot remains as terrible and disjointed from the rest of the world I will never play this game again. Maybe if they surprise me and actually continue story threads through multiple expansions to properly set up the future but I honestly doubt they have the talent to do that anymore. They have to prove they are willing to change in the long term.
So much damage has been done. I fully expect dragonflight to have more incredibly stupid writing at the end that just gets cut short and abandoned for the next one.
I do not understand why enemies in the world cant last more than 1 hit. I just dont get it. Why cant quest bosses have like a small mechanic and 10x more hp.
I think one of the glaring problems with WoW right now is the community itself, and I don't mean from a Toxic perspective either (although, depending where you are, that can be an issue).
I think there is this idea of the Meta is the end all, be all, and only aim for BiS keeps people in a different kind of headspace. It can be good if you are looking at yourself to get better, but the problem is, within the community it can be weaponized and targetted at other people, and has been a thing for a long time
There's two distinct sets of customers for the game, the type that carry about the World, Lore, and Story, who put themselves into a virtual world, and those who only care about the end-game raiding activity as a game engine mechanism to be defeated.
It seems like ActiBlizz has decided to cater to the later than the former. Hopefully this xpac will not finalize the game becoming just an end-game lobby raid runner.
At this point, I don't think it matters what they do. The game will never be the same. It's ruined for a vast majority of previous players.
Imagine if matt had like just went "no, they learned nothing" and just screamed for 9 minutes.
Has WoW changed? Do quest givers still walk away while you're trying to read the quest closing the quest window?
How long before they destroy it all again though? The lack of consistency makes it impossible to feel invested.
I personally think Blizzard stealing from FFXIV is the best thing that can happen for the game. Having a dungeon pool from past expacs for mythic plus like the roulette system is great, taking FFXIV crafting class design also great, switching back to gear being more important than Expac specific borrowed power is great. As a bonus we also get dragon riding from GW2 which WoW is actually doing better by giving it away and not locking it behind a $20 paywall with 2 months of grinding. I really hope Dragonflight is good, granted Shadowlands eviscerated the lore but hey maybe they will salvage it into something
while i think it might be nice to have characters act more like characters, i think wow is actually best when the big players are deep in the background and you're just learning about the world by solving the people who live there's problems. dont tell me what anduin and thrall are doing. but maybe with the faction war sort of behind us they can try writing just a traditional adventure story now.
the one sad thing is, you guys always fell for the this-time-really!-trap made by actiblizz, the other sad thing is the fact you still cover this game and with it this abomination of a company. you´ve seen better, you´ve experienced and FELT better, but still... i was a mid-tbc child too till shadowlands second content drops, and boy i miss nothing. played ff14 as a sidegame since heavensward and it felt always richer and less like a treadmill of work.
As someone who began playing WoW mid-Legion, and thus, did not play during WoD, I feel tremendously sorry for those who did and still do not like any of the story threads attached to WoD, because the Light invasion plotline is an inevitability. I honestly fear for what will happen to WoW when the consequences of setting up that plotline for the Mag'har orcs rears its head once more. I have friends who've played the game their whole lives, friends who inherited accounts from their older siblings, friends who don't want a WoW 2 if they can't bring over their mount and cosmetic collections. And all those friends have it dead-set that if Yrel comes back with a Light invasion, they will quit the game. I can only imagine how many more feel the same about WoD's connections to the story.
Not going to lie, I was with the usual "uh huh okay", then I saw they brought back good ol' Thaelin Darkanvil. If WoW ever got to the point to just have a static party that the player character interacts with, I'd hope he would be part of the Alliance side of it.
You're talk about the state of the villains reminded me of the first time I went through Bastion in Shadowlands. Learning about the Forsworn and their not wanting to give up their memories, their very being, and the Kyrian seeing that as a bad thing. I honestly connected more with the Forsworn at that point and they could have easily made them into a very sympathetic group of villains with a lot of great narratives to explore concerning the nature of self vs blind duty. But it never happened and they too were just relagated to stock baddy roles there just for us to kill en masse. It was such a major disapointment.
Good vid, but can't get back into WoW, just too much and then you can't get a full experience with the one month sub.
Idk if the story was the main drawing point for most. I'd rather say the less stingy/timegated progression model.
this is just part one there will prob be .2,.3,.4.5..so they are just introduces us to this new land. season 1,season 2 season 3.. they will be in future patches ..to continue the story.. there doing it in bits and pieces
WoW needs a complete overhaul of pretty much all the older content, it looks SO old at this point and needs an upgrade. Hell, make a bloodelf, run to the pirate/ship area. There are STILL mobs stuck under the ground since bloodelfs release. Its ridiculous about how little they care about the leveling up experience.
Imagine that in a world where Warlords of Draenor exists, Shadowlands is the worst lore drop Blizz has ever done.
game sucks, gms are incompetent, bans silences suspensions are all automated and this will never change.
Most I know that left wow for ff was not simply because of the story. But would be nice if wow actually became story driven first.
"A smile better suits a hero."
The thing that WoW lacks, that it has always lacked, with very few exceptions after Wrath, is any depth to their characters or story. In all the years I played (Vanilla through BfA), I never once felt more than mild emotions towards any character, usually being "huh, figures" or "Finally, they deserved it." Not once did I actually feel a fraction of what that line brings up to anyone who's played very far into the Heavensward expansion of FFXIV.
If the game can't make me care about the characters in it, and I have no investment in the game world (which I can't impact in any meaningful way), all that's left is the raw mechanics of gameplay. IMO, they stopped innovating there back in Mists of Pandaria, and everything after that has just been rebranding the same old stuff with new names, shuffled ordering, and a different interface.
Honestly, I thought it was fine.
WoW thrived off of the random adventurer exploring things. And I loved every moment of it. I didn’t care to be that super special someone. I enjoyed being the adventurer discovering doing Good Samaritan deeds.
I liked having characters we walked alongside.
The problem is that the other characters are super big names leaders which makes the story become more and more unbelievable. They also tried pushing us too far into the spotlight with no real legit interaction involved.
The reason it works for FF14 is because since the very beginning: You are SPECIAL. You get the crystals at the beginning. They hammer in the Blessing of Light getting you through challenges. Friends are always clearing the path for you. Not once were you not considered special. HW then went and delved hard into that by showing how your character proves themself deserving of being special. And having Alphinaud be the voice of the character (also with DRK’s storyline) really helped that too.
But in WoW, I missed the whole MoP storyline and get forced into WoD. All of a sudden, I’m nobody nameless soldier to lead general. Wha? I did raids, I didn’t command armies. Yet somehow I’m gifted with a commander role in which I barely command anyone while running around putting myself in danger? Blizzard keeps trying to include us as special, but the game just doesn’t run that way. There’s the concept of show, don’t tell. Blizzard just tells you to pretend you’re special without the build-up.
Also consider Exile’s Reach. Soldier of the Alliance/Horde. Stop a Necromancer. Enter Battle for Azeroth as a lvl 11 (or was it 16?) Commander.
It’s jarring.
I’d rather Blizzard stick back to the roots we grew from.