For the last last 10 years, I have used only half inch expanded polystyrene insulation on inner surface of the top cover as well as the sides of my Langstroth box in hot 38+ degrees Celsius summers ( 3 hours cumulative direct sunlight in morning and evening). No collapse and very little bearding, showing the effectiveness and necessity of insulation. It was really hard , difficult for bees before. Loud sound of fanning by bees to cool their hives, in hottest part of the day, was audible from quite a distance away.
We build our own hives as well, and it always baffled us that the blueprints we used at first would go to such extremes of wall thickness and insulation, then punch vwntilation holes at the top or bottom or both. It seemed to defeat the purpose. Now we don't ventilate, and I stopped up the vents in our first prototypes with wool. We also insulate the lids year round. So far, so good.
That's something that's kind of baffled me, too. At Dr. Leo's seminar he made a statement that's stuck with me: "Insulate or ventilate, but not both". I've never fully understood, then, why his insulated hive plans use insulated walls and floor but ventilated roof.
Great video! I have been slowly transitioning my colonies over the last few seasons to no upper vents year round. So far so good and makes more common sense.
Ive always wondered why the langstroth frames are wired horizontally and the layens frames vertically, i prefer my layens frames to be wired horizontally because it makes more sense to support the wax comb and that leaves the top and bottom free to cut a groove to install premade wax foundation. But now after watching your video i have some validation that its the right thing to do, thank you
The purpose of the frame wiring is to support the comb laterally during extraction; the wires normally run along the longest frame dimension although, of course, you can wire yours as you wish. On the frames I build I cut a groove in the top bar while also using vertical (or diagonal) wires. Wax foundation can be pushed into the groove as a guide; the wires help "pinch" it in place and then the vertical wires can be further embedded into the foundation. One thing I've observed about wax foundation is that comb collapse seems worse for comb built on wax foundation (embedded by the beekeeper) than for natural comb which the bees have attached to the wire. The bees just seem to do a better job of making the attachment. I've known of several people who used full sheets of foundation and had full frames collapse, while I typically use only a few inches of foundation as a starter and had some frames in which the comb on foundation collapsed but the natural comb beneath didn't - leaving an odd "window" at the top of the frame where the foundation was.
There is a lot of passive cooling ideas that could be applied. You could probably spend days watching RUclips videos on it. Diébédo Francis Kéré's (The 3 Design Strategies Keeping This Building Cool In Scorching Heat) designs for schools' kind of sticks out for me. And solar chimneys. Maybe dig a 6ft deep trench and put shade cloth over it? As for retaining heat, there is an avenue that nobody is exploring. You can make a form, fill it with sterile straw or cattail fluff, and inoculate it with a fungus. After a couple weeks, you can sterilize it. The fungus will be dead and there is a chemical byproduct that continues to protect the insulation against other fungi. The form idea is cool because you can take edges out and round the corners. Heat escapes out of corners.
It seems like this adds a lot of unnecessary work for the beekeeper. A core consideration to my philosophy is "who does it for the bees in the trees?" Following the research of Dr. Thomas Seeley and others it seems that bees thrive best, in most climates, in a thick-walled tree cavity with a single, small, low entrance. It's this environment that I try to simulate with the insulated hives.
Thanks for the common sense video. Heat moves from higher temperature to lower. Roof insulation slows heat leaving the hive in winter and entering the hive in summer. Like in your home if insulated. I use R-20 (2x2" XPS) to insulate tops of my hives and all year around ventilation through opened screened bottom boards. Near Chicago. The bees use ~30-40lb of stores during Chicago winter ( 1 medium box)
Totally agree with all the points made here. My hive has 100mm walls and roof filled with rockwool. It was 65C on the top of roof recently but 24C inside (outside air temperature). The difference insulated wall makes cannot be overstated. Just think about it... tree hives naturally have thick walls, tree hives only have a single entrance in the main. They very rarely have an upper ventilation hole or the bees will close it themselves.
I have studied many wild honey bee colonies , I have never seen any ventilation , and I once interfered and let a ventilation to a wild colony they quickly resealed it within 3 days .Ventilation is a man-made characteristic. The problem is that some beekeepers want bees to live the way they want them to ,not the bees .I insulate my beehives with natural wool ,this has so many benefits ,thanks for the video.
Hello my friend. I'm so grateful for this video. I've been tuned in to insulated hives for quite awhile now. I added 1/2" (R4) insulation to the side walls of all my Langstroth hives, and year round, I keep a 3" shim on top all my hives that is packed solid with alpaca wool. What has assured me, in both spring/summer and fall/winter that this is an ideal situation, is coming out of winter, my hives still have tons of honey; which tells me due to them not needing to work as hard to maintain a heated environment, they did not need to feed as much. And in spring/summer, my bees rarely beard like they used to. Year round now, I keep top and side insulation. I also wrap my hives in the winter. Recently, I have introduced HiveGates to all my entrances, which has proven itself for the hives to help maintain a perfect microclimate in the hives years round. I'm created a perfect working plan for my bees.
You still have a 3/4” space above the frame headers. The insulation doesn’t lay flat on the frames. As in a house insulation lays on the ceiling and isn’t installed in the rafters above the ceiling drywall. This would allow super heated air or cold air to get trapped above the frames without any ventilation option since you’ve blocked the venting holes in the lid. Based on your design you might as well remove the 3/4” spacers all together and let the lid sit flat on the hive rim and frame tops as a Langstroth lid does. Also, how are you addressing the heat or cold air in the empty space ? Again, another dead air space to the side which isn’t normal in a tree and isn’t insulated from the colony or its moisture. I agree with Mitchell’s work (he’s done a couple other studies) and a once-and-done all year insulation solution sounds great. I do think he would suggest having the insulation laying directly on the frames. I wonder if you’ll see mold on top of the frames in the spring.
Although I haven't put a thermometer there I do expect the gap above the frames will contain a cushion of warm air. The first winter that I used insulated lids I put 3/4" polystyrene foam on top of the frames of some hives, filling that gap, but left the space open on others. I saw zero difference in the outcomes, and have not seen any issues with moisture/mold on the top bars of the frames nor on the underside of the lid. That air space may be warmer than the hive interior during the summer, but by reducing the solar heating with insulation I expect it may still be cooler than without the insulation on hot, sunny days. As I mention in the video, the signs of heat stress on the hives is reduced from before. As for the open space, insulating the lid as well as the sides seems to have reduced any prior issues with moisture/mold on the divider board or the interior of the open space. Not that it was a big issue before but in previous years, when winterizing per Dr. Leo's instructions with a ventilated lid and pillow on the frames, I would occasionally see signs of moisture and/or light mold in the open end. I haven't noticed that in the hives with insulated lids. While I may not have collected detailed data as Seeley or Mitchell would have, I purposefully waited through two seasons while observing the insulated hives for potential issues before recording and posting this, mainly because I shared some of your same concerns and didn't want to mislead others. But what I've seen so far has satisfied my concerns and convinced me of the benefits.
Sounds like it’s working well. I guess you will no longer drill holes in the side of the lids, correct? Also, do you use any of the entrances for venting only or keep the two unused entrances closed all the time?
@@SuburbanSodbuster Sounds like it’s working well. I guess you will no longer drill holes in the side of the lids, correct? Also, do you use any of the entrances for venting only or keep the two unused entrances closed all the time?
Good Information but I'll stick with my Ventilation, keep your bees you way in your Climate. First Rule in Beekeeping for me. You do some Great videos and get people thinking. I think many beekeepers need to dig deeper for information and find out what works best for their local micro climate. Venting or Insulation aid in the killing you bees if either is used improperly. It does not have to be an either or, you can use insulation and venting at the same time, your House does. Go close up the vents in you attic and see what happens. Heat is not lost in Winter if venting is done properly. It would benefit may beekeepers to learn a little about Construction/Insulation or maybe HVAC before they make assumptions about insulation and air flow. The biggest problem is that includes Scientists doing these studies, the real world is much different then controlled studies.
The insulation is below any of your soffit, proper and Ridge vents keeping the heat and cold inside your house and cold above your insulation. If anyone puts insulation between the roof raftors in an attic that's wrong.
I know a guy with thick insulation on his hives in Central Texas and it’s about 100° every day at the moment. Insulation on the lids and on the bases. The bees have no relief from the westerly sun, and they appear to be baking. Yeah, his bees are not doing too great. The queens are stressed. I told him I suggest taking that off to allow the metal telescoping lids to radiate heat and put it back in Winter. The United wis HUGE with many different climates. We have very mild Winters here, and last Winter it may have got 2 degrees below freezing 1 or 2 times.
Ok But the problem comes in(where we are at???) is that there is alot of moisture build up, and with that moisture build up(especially when there is a significant temp drop) and you get frost(frostbite) and when bees are frostbit, they die. You won't get comb collapse, if you use black plastic foundation...
Ah yes the condensing hive, fred dunn discusses no upper vents and insulated tops,w double bubble helping,...emulating a tree like seely ,fred dunn goes into how dew point is directed lower than the winter cluster,and the moisture runs down the sides and can be consumed by the bees ,top insulated covers also help in summer reducing heat strain,so year round is beneficail to add r value
very interesting.. I have access to raw sheep wool.. What is your opinion on using that rather than manmade material? The moisture information is quite interesting..
Sheep's wool is an excellent material to use, for those who have access to it. I use rock wool as a substitute because it's more accessible to me and the batts are easy to work with. The insulating value of the two is very similar.
Hey @hawkspiritweaver6664. All my hives, year round, I keep a 3" shim, that is packed with a burlap bag filled with alpaca wool! My lids are also insulated with 1/2 pink foam board. It's proven to me incredible. we are just learning we had it all wrong.
@@hawkspiritweaver6664 Anytime. I've been at this for over 50 years. So ask away. On another point that sodbuster made, I too am a huge fan of layens frames, which are deeper frames. So, since I have all langstroth hives, I combined two deep hive bodies, and had a beekeeper/shop friend custom build me langstroth frames made of oak that are 18.5" deep. My hive overwinter on them with amazing success.
@@bradgoliphant have a hive in waiting and a swarm trap which sadly caught zip this year. Sad reduction in honey bees over the past few years in NE Michigan. Thinking about getting another trap box and setting it up a bit further inland. next spring. Gives me more time to study before I have some of those little beauties under my care.
why do you use rock wool & plywood instead of a closed cel polyethylene foam that is water, proof, won't retain moisture is an excellent insulator, I am building a layers hive doing it non ventilated & have come to insulating the outside of the inner cedar box so I can build my outer wooden box of hemlock I had milled locally, tightly to the poly I was planning on sandwiching poly between the 2 woods 2&1/2" at top of hive wall down to 1&1/2 at hive bottom with a 3 inch foam top & 1 inch of hemlock as my outter top . it gets not only subzero here in North Eastern Nova Scotia, we get many days of freezing rain with wide fluctuations of subzero to slightly above the freezing mark through out our spring, they are generally miserable weather.
There are obviously multiple possible ways to address the concern, and I don't have any argument with someone who prefers to use a different insulating material. The rock wool I use is likely to draw moisture from the wood yet is mold resistant. On the other hand, it seems likely that moisture will condense and build up between the top of the rigid foam and the cooler top of the lid. But this is just me thinking "out loud", so to speak. I'm sure there are arguments for or against each approach, but they both serve the same goal of insulating the top of the hive.
@@SuburbanSodbuster thank you for your reply, I asked because I want to do the pieces of 1/4 plywood directly on top of my frames, in sections so I can move them to access frames & keep a wood layer between bee hive & foam, My cover also goes down over the sides of the hive 3 inches to make it as draft proof as possibleI wondered from your use of rock wool if poly styrene foam might harm the bees. like many other unvented hive builders I am hoping the water vapour from my bees does not condense until its near the bottom of the hive, where i am hoping the bees might be able to utilize it. I have no idea if this will work & my mentor who has top bar hives does not insulate or vent his hives he just places them in a way they face south with a wind break on their north side, the roof his hives are like a 4-12 pitch home & in that space he has 1 inch of foam & he puts hive alive patties, he has 6 hives & is a retired & a hobbiest, which i am hoping to be soon as well. thank you again as I believe I may now use spray foam as a glue to hold the lid into a solid piece of wood over insulation piece
For the last last 10 years, I have used only half inch expanded polystyrene insulation on inner surface of the top cover as well as the sides of my Langstroth box in hot 38+ degrees Celsius summers ( 3 hours cumulative direct sunlight in morning and evening). No collapse and very little bearding, showing the effectiveness and necessity of insulation. It was really hard , difficult for bees before. Loud sound of fanning by bees to cool their hives, in hottest part of the day, was audible from quite a distance away.
We build our own hives as well, and it always baffled us that the blueprints we used at first would go to such extremes of wall thickness and insulation, then punch vwntilation holes at the top or bottom or both. It seemed to defeat the purpose. Now we don't ventilate, and I stopped up the vents in our first prototypes with wool. We also insulate the lids year round. So far, so good.
Also, it seems to help regulate the extreme temperature fluctuations we can get in my agricultural zone 6b.
That's something that's kind of baffled me, too. At Dr. Leo's seminar he made a statement that's stuck with me: "Insulate or ventilate, but not both". I've never fully understood, then, why his insulated hive plans use insulated walls and floor but ventilated roof.
Great video! I have been slowly transitioning my colonies over the last few seasons to no upper vents year round. So far so good and makes more common sense.
Ive always wondered why the langstroth frames are wired horizontally and the layens frames vertically, i prefer my layens frames to be wired horizontally because it makes more sense to support the wax comb and that leaves the top and bottom free to cut a groove to install premade wax foundation. But now after watching your video i have some validation that its the right thing to do, thank you
The purpose of the frame wiring is to support the comb laterally during extraction; the wires normally run along the longest frame dimension although, of course, you can wire yours as you wish. On the frames I build I cut a groove in the top bar while also using vertical (or diagonal) wires. Wax foundation can be pushed into the groove as a guide; the wires help "pinch" it in place and then the vertical wires can be further embedded into the foundation. One thing I've observed about wax foundation is that comb collapse seems worse for comb built on wax foundation (embedded by the beekeeper) than for natural comb which the bees have attached to the wire. The bees just seem to do a better job of making the attachment. I've known of several people who used full sheets of foundation and had full frames collapse, while I typically use only a few inches of foundation as a starter and had some frames in which the comb on foundation collapsed but the natural comb beneath didn't - leaving an odd "window" at the top of the frame where the foundation was.
@@SuburbanSodbuster I suppose that may be because the wax foundation was not pure beeswax so it had a lower melting point.
Very well explained. Again.
There is a lot of passive cooling ideas that could be applied. You could probably spend days watching RUclips videos on it. Diébédo Francis Kéré's (The 3 Design Strategies Keeping This Building Cool In Scorching Heat) designs for schools' kind of sticks out for me. And solar chimneys. Maybe dig a 6ft deep trench and put shade cloth over it?
As for retaining heat, there is an avenue that nobody is exploring. You can make a form, fill it with sterile straw or cattail fluff, and inoculate it with a fungus. After a couple weeks, you can sterilize it. The fungus will be dead and there is a chemical byproduct that continues to protect the insulation against other fungi.
The form idea is cool because you can take edges out and round the corners. Heat escapes out of corners.
It seems like this adds a lot of unnecessary work for the beekeeper. A core consideration to my philosophy is "who does it for the bees in the trees?" Following the research of Dr. Thomas Seeley and others it seems that bees thrive best, in most climates, in a thick-walled tree cavity with a single, small, low entrance. It's this environment that I try to simulate with the insulated hives.
@@SuburbanSodbuster trees have a top that shades everything beneath it. I think trees also make heat from friction when the cold wind blows on them.
A LOT OF GOOD COMMON SENSE, THAT AINT SO COMMON ANYMORE, THANK YOU.
Thanks for the common sense video. Heat moves from higher temperature to lower. Roof insulation slows heat leaving the hive in winter and entering the hive in summer. Like in your home if insulated. I use R-20 (2x2" XPS) to insulate tops of my hives and all year around ventilation through opened screened bottom boards. Near Chicago. The bees use ~30-40lb of stores during Chicago winter ( 1 medium box)
Totally agree with all the points made here. My hive has 100mm walls and roof filled with rockwool. It was 65C on the top of roof recently but 24C inside (outside air temperature). The difference insulated wall makes cannot be overstated. Just think about it... tree hives naturally have thick walls, tree hives only have a single entrance in the main. They very rarely have an upper ventilation hole or the bees will close it themselves.
Great video! I'm on year 2 of bee keeping and I'm loving the insulated layens. Winters are long and wet where I live
Once I saw Dr. Leo work the Layens hive, particularly preparing it for winter, it just made a lot of sense to me.
Honey is also added with water to process in the bees,as carbohydrate
I have studied many wild honey bee colonies , I have never seen any ventilation , and I once interfered and let a ventilation to a wild colony they quickly resealed it within 3 days .Ventilation is a man-made characteristic. The problem is that some beekeepers want bees to live the way they want them to ,not the bees .I insulate my beehives with natural wool ,this has so many benefits ,thanks for the video.
Hello my friend. I'm so grateful for this video. I've been tuned in to insulated hives for quite awhile now. I added 1/2" (R4) insulation to the side walls of all my Langstroth hives, and year round, I keep a 3" shim on top all my hives that is packed solid with alpaca wool. What has assured me, in both spring/summer and fall/winter that this is an ideal situation, is coming out of winter, my hives still have tons of honey; which tells me due to them not needing to work as hard to maintain a heated environment, they did not need to feed as much. And in spring/summer, my bees rarely beard like they used to. Year round now, I keep top and side insulation. I also wrap my hives in the winter.
Recently, I have introduced HiveGates to all my entrances, which has proven itself for the hives to help maintain a perfect microclimate in the hives years round. I'm created a perfect working plan for my bees.
You still have a 3/4” space above the frame headers. The insulation doesn’t lay flat on the frames. As in a house insulation lays on the ceiling and isn’t installed in the rafters above the ceiling drywall. This would allow super heated air or cold air to get trapped above the frames without any ventilation option since you’ve blocked the venting holes in the lid. Based on your design you might as well remove the 3/4” spacers all together and let the lid sit flat on the hive rim and frame tops as a Langstroth lid does. Also, how are you addressing the heat or cold air in the empty space ? Again, another dead air space to the side which isn’t normal in a tree and isn’t insulated from the colony or its moisture.
I agree with Mitchell’s work (he’s done a couple other studies) and a once-and-done all year insulation solution sounds great. I do think he would suggest having the insulation laying directly on the frames. I wonder if you’ll see mold on top of the frames in the spring.
Although I haven't put a thermometer there I do expect the gap above the frames will contain a cushion of warm air. The first winter that I used insulated lids I put 3/4" polystyrene foam on top of the frames of some hives, filling that gap, but left the space open on others. I saw zero difference in the outcomes, and have not seen any issues with moisture/mold on the top bars of the frames nor on the underside of the lid. That air space may be warmer than the hive interior during the summer, but by reducing the solar heating with insulation I expect it may still be cooler than without the insulation on hot, sunny days. As I mention in the video, the signs of heat stress on the hives is reduced from before.
As for the open space, insulating the lid as well as the sides seems to have reduced any prior issues with moisture/mold on the divider board or the interior of the open space. Not that it was a big issue before but in previous years, when winterizing per Dr. Leo's instructions with a ventilated lid and pillow on the frames, I would occasionally see signs of moisture and/or light mold in the open end. I haven't noticed that in the hives with insulated lids.
While I may not have collected detailed data as Seeley or Mitchell would have, I purposefully waited through two seasons while observing the insulated hives for potential issues before recording and posting this, mainly because I shared some of your same concerns and didn't want to mislead others. But what I've seen so far has satisfied my concerns and convinced me of the benefits.
Sounds like it’s working well. I guess you will no longer drill holes in the side of the lids, correct? Also, do you use any of the entrances for venting only or keep the two unused entrances closed all the time?
@@SuburbanSodbuster Sounds like it’s working well. I guess you will no longer drill holes in the side of the lids, correct? Also, do you use any of the entrances for venting only or keep the two unused entrances closed all the time?
Another great video with useful information. Been following your stuff for awhile and my bees are doing great! Thanks so much!
Thank you! I'm glad to hear your good report about your bees.
Great video - Maybe I missed it - How cold does it get there exactly?
Our winter lows are usually around -10 F (-23 C)
@@SuburbanSodbuster Wow that is cold. We only usually experience about 20 F or so ... Great vid I love your stuff!
Good Information but I'll stick with my Ventilation, keep your bees you way in your Climate. First Rule in Beekeeping for me. You do some Great videos and get people thinking. I think many beekeepers need to dig deeper for information and find out what works best for their local micro climate. Venting or Insulation aid in the killing you bees if either is used improperly.
It does not have to be an either or, you can use insulation and venting at the same time, your House does.
Go close up the vents in you attic and see what happens. Heat is not lost in Winter if venting is done properly.
It would benefit may beekeepers to learn a little about Construction/Insulation or maybe HVAC before they make assumptions about insulation and air flow. The biggest problem is that includes Scientists doing these studies, the real world is much different then controlled studies.
The insulation is below any of your soffit, proper and Ridge vents keeping the heat and cold inside your house and cold above your insulation. If anyone puts insulation between the roof raftors in an attic that's wrong.
I know a guy with thick insulation on his hives in Central Texas and it’s about 100° every day at the moment. Insulation on the lids and on the bases. The bees have no relief from the westerly sun, and they appear to be baking. Yeah, his bees are not doing too great. The queens are stressed. I told him I suggest taking that off to allow the metal telescoping lids to radiate heat and put it back in Winter. The United wis HUGE with many different climates. We have very mild Winters here, and last Winter it may have got 2 degrees below freezing 1 or 2 times.
Ok
But the problem comes in(where we are at???) is that there is alot of moisture build up, and with that moisture build up(especially when there is a significant temp drop) and you get frost(frostbite) and when bees are frostbit, they die.
You won't get comb collapse, if you use black plastic foundation...
What kind of insulation do you use for the bottom and sides?
I use rock wool or sheep's wool, but usually rock wool. They have comparable thermal benefit but rock wool is more available to me.
Ah yes the condensing hive, fred dunn discusses no upper vents and insulated tops,w double bubble helping,...emulating a tree like seely ,fred dunn goes into how dew point is directed lower than the winter cluster,and the moisture runs down the sides and can be consumed by the bees ,top insulated covers also help in summer reducing heat strain,so year round is beneficail to add r value
Great video.
I glanced at your thumbnail and thought you were holding up the world’s largest frame😂
very interesting.. I have access to raw sheep wool.. What is your opinion on using that rather than manmade material? The moisture information is quite interesting..
Sheep's wool is an excellent material to use, for those who have access to it. I use rock wool as a substitute because it's more accessible to me and the batts are easy to work with. The insulating value of the two is very similar.
Hey @hawkspiritweaver6664. All my hives, year round, I keep a 3" shim, that is packed with a burlap bag filled with alpaca wool! My lids are also insulated with 1/2 pink foam board. It's proven to me incredible. we are just learning we had it all wrong.
@@bradgoliphant I'm just getting started and haven't made any errors yet. So I'm leaning on all of you. Thank you for the response.
@@hawkspiritweaver6664 Anytime. I've been at this for over 50 years. So ask away.
On another point that sodbuster made, I too am a huge fan of layens frames, which are deeper frames. So, since I have all langstroth hives, I combined two deep hive bodies, and had a beekeeper/shop friend custom build me langstroth frames made of oak that are 18.5" deep. My hive overwinter on them with amazing success.
@@bradgoliphant have a hive in waiting and a swarm trap which sadly caught zip this year. Sad reduction in honey bees over the past few years in NE Michigan. Thinking about getting another trap box and setting it up a bit further inland. next spring. Gives me more time to study before I have some of those little beauties under my care.
Say where you live,,makes a huge difference 🤯 ,, mild winter ,,cold winter , or very cold
I'm in Missouri, USA. On average, temps range from 100F+ to -10F.
I make my beehive out of 25mm cedar or larch boards
Thicker the hive,less likely bees will freeze. Common sense.
why do you use rock wool & plywood instead of a closed cel polyethylene foam that is water, proof, won't retain moisture is an excellent insulator, I am building a layers hive doing it non ventilated & have come to insulating the outside of the inner cedar box so I can build my outer wooden box of hemlock I had milled locally, tightly to the poly I was planning on sandwiching poly between the 2 woods 2&1/2" at top of hive wall down to 1&1/2 at hive bottom with a 3 inch foam top & 1 inch of hemlock as my outter top . it gets not only subzero here in North Eastern Nova Scotia, we get many days of freezing rain with wide fluctuations of subzero to slightly above the freezing mark through out our spring, they are generally miserable weather.
There are obviously multiple possible ways to address the concern, and I don't have any argument with someone who prefers to use a different insulating material. The rock wool I use is likely to draw moisture from the wood yet is mold resistant. On the other hand, it seems likely that moisture will condense and build up between the top of the rigid foam and the cooler top of the lid. But this is just me thinking "out loud", so to speak. I'm sure there are arguments for or against each approach, but they both serve the same goal of insulating the top of the hive.
@@SuburbanSodbuster thank you for your reply, I asked because I want to do the pieces of 1/4 plywood directly on top of my frames, in sections so I can move them to access frames & keep a wood layer between bee hive & foam, My cover also goes down over the sides of the hive 3 inches to make it as draft proof as possibleI wondered from your use of rock wool if poly styrene foam might harm the bees. like many other unvented hive builders I am hoping the water vapour from my bees does not condense until its near the bottom of the hive, where i am hoping the bees might be able to utilize it. I have no idea if this will work & my mentor who has top bar hives does not insulate or vent his hives he just places them in a way they face south with a wind break on their north side, the roof his hives are like a 4-12 pitch home & in that space he has 1 inch of foam & he puts hive alive patties, he has 6 hives & is a retired & a hobbiest, which i am hoping to be soon as well. thank you again as I believe I may now use spray foam as a glue to hold the lid into a solid piece of wood over insulation piece