Out Of Touch Writing In Video Games - Luke Reacts
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
- 👉🏼 LINKS: linktr.ee/lukestephens 👈🏼
--
Luke Stephens is a Content-Creator and Streamer that co-streams on RUclips and Twitch. This channel has Live Stream clips and highlights in addition to the streams themselves. Check out Luke's main channel & other content by going to: linktr.ee/lukestephens !!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
╔═╦╗╔╦╗╔═╦═╦╦╦╦╗╔═╗
║╚╣║║║╚╣╚╣╔╣╔╣║╚╣═╣
╠╗║╚╝║║╠╗║╚╣║║║║║═╣
╚═╩══╩═╩═╩═╩╝╚╩═╩═╝
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Subscribe and I'll be your bestest friend!
#gaming #LukeStephens #ps5 #xbox 
Развлечения
It's not out of touch, it just fucking sucks. This writing would've been bad 10, 20, 30 years ago.
It was never IN touch.
The reason is out of touch though, because it’s based on the question “how can we make the most money the fastest with the least effort possible?” Instead of “what would be a good story?”
Does it ever have to be "in touch" for it to be out of touch?
@@k--music I don't think so. A lot of older movies and shows have similar plots because of " how can I make the most money with least effort." That's why genre is a thing. Remember the about of "COD killers", or "WOW killers" that came out.
No the problem is that they are listening to 20 years olds whose greatest hardship is Starbucks running out of oat milk and whose reading list includes day fanfiction and anti-capitalism rhetoric. Most haven't read anything published past 5 years ago let alone the classics.
@@sofakingimmature and they were out of touch back then too. “The video game has a bad story” is not a new problem at all, and the copy pasted low effort movies/games have always been bad. I think if they listened to people without any real problems they’d write a good story, because to those people the biggest problem is having to sit through a bad one lmao single moms with 5 kids living in poverty in a war zone don’t care about that.
So no, they listen to studio heads demanding games to be released asap and properly aligned with the fiscal calendar to generate the right revenue at the right time. The only KPI that matters to them is profit, not amt of positive feedback to the story.
Any appearance of pandering to the market including what you mentioned is because they want people to buy a game without putting effort behind it, just as I said. Same with reading actually, publishers don’t buy manuscripts because they’re the best but because they’re expecting to make the most money. And also wrt publishing older doesn’t = better. There’ve been plenty of bad books throughout history.
Out of touch writing should refer to topics, slang, and prose that simply isn't how the average person reads/talks today. A bad story isn't out of touch. Bad writing? A 40-50 year old trying to pretend they are 16.
Good writers: "What would the character do in this situation?"
Bad writers: "That's what I want the character to do in this situation!!!"
"The character MUST do this random stupid thing that makes no sense, or the movie can't happen."
"Are you admitting that your movie premise makes no sense, then?"
@@robsolf aka "The Damon Lindelof school of scriptwriting"
Nailed it
Exactly. They are activists. They deny reality, objectivity causes them severe pain. They don’t portray the world as it is.. but how the wish it would be.
@robsolf ignore money and finds cat. Bag of money right in front of you... Forspoken....
Funny enough protagonist of that game was better before SBI "suggestions"
I don’t think we’ve gotten more flops, I think we’ve gotten more big budget flops. I don’t think we’ve seen games to this scale fail as hard as they did.
Good people finally found out that you can vote with your wallet 👍
Agreed. In the past, games like Forspoken would be axed when someone gave the story a good look. RPGs can't skimp on the story.
But today, all execs can see and hear are MICROTRANSACTIONS, RECURRENT PLAYER SPENDING, and TENTPOLE FRANCHISE!!!!! Executives are so focused on the game making more money off its success, they don't care if the game ITSELF is actually successful
Old Writers: "My characters have a diverse pattern of emotions"
Modern Writers: "every character is sarcastic and takes nothing seriously"
Nomura is an old writer that time travelled to this day to make his 20+ year video game franchise about anime characters having deep feelings and emotional dread about their own existence with disney characters in the background
@@heroicgangster9981If you're talking about kingdom hearts, then I'm sorry to tell you but that game franchise has terrible and corny writing
@@bingusdingus39 I have not played any Kindom Hearts game yet but I would rather have corny and cheesy writing that comes off as sincere than the super cynical sarcastic shit we get.
You can blame the MCU.
@@cmoon2718 I agree man, Kingdom hearts writing is entertaining, it's so bad it's good. It's got soul, which you can't say about a lot of modern writing
The main problem with modern games is that they are not made for gamers but instead they are made to please investors. This generates big short term profit for the company as they get investments from companies like BlackRock but in long term they lose customers which leads to fewer sales which means the company cannot generate any profits that leads to downsizing of the company until its shutdown.
The main problem with modern games is a thing called Recency Bias.
No that's not it at all. People dont realise even passion projects are made to make money. They have always used KPIs to make game design choices
@@JJJBunney001 They're not using KPI any longer, they're using DEI now. There's no way in hell you can look at a movie like The Marvels or any Disney movie in the past couple years and say "yeah, KPI".
So, let me ask you.
Why do investment firms like BlackRock invest in such endeavors and then force the companies to do what they want them to do? What do they actually want? To change the world? As Social justice warriors? Do they consider themselves as Diversity Messiahs? I am really curious.
That is because I have always been taught and learned that big cooperations are all about profit and nothing else. They invest in those outlets such as games and movies because they want them to grow, that is supposed to be an investor’s aim. If those grow and have a lot of revenue, the investor profits. What is this about ‘sending the message’ I hear so much about? Are they dumb or what? Seriously though, I also learned that BlackRock is Israeli company so why would they even care about diversity and such? Why would they want to do so unprofitable and stupid changes in growing industries? I am pretty sure they are not reaping the profits. Enlighten me.
I am not from US so I am oblivious about things like that. However, the changes in US also affect entertainment industry around the world so I want to know why.
Explain to me why BlackRock is doing this?
I know that are probably richer than the countries themselves but why would they care about diversity and social justice or smth?
Blackrock writing*
Nailed it
They aren’t the only ones
@@THEONETRUEOVERLORDthey are tho. Blackrock has majority stake in Vanguard and has seats on the board. And vice versa. So it’s just one company calling the shots split into a few to avoid being targeted.
(((Blackrock)))
@@THEONETRUEOVERLORD not the only one sure, but it's most definitely the largest by vast amounts
The entertainment industry has become about checking boxes, not about hiring people who love what they do and what they're working on.
Yep. Look at what Activision put out with their 3-year DEI plan.
Back in the ps2, ps3 and xbox 360 era we did get a lot of bad games but they were usually smaller games not games from big publishers or first-party studios.
We're definitely getting a lot more triple A flops now.
.....most shovel ware actually came from big publishers and devs. Hell EA, Square, Raven, and Ubi use to put out a lot of shovel ware.
@@aliquidgaming1068 But those typically had shovelware budgets to go along with them. Those kinds of games were typically used to try a new fangled mechanic or game idea, and depending on how that part of the game was received, it would then be implemented (or not) into a tent pole game. As garbage as those games usually were, they at least represented an attempt at innovation. Now AAA studios don't do these budget games, and thus have become risk averse and only chase trends.
And they didn't preemptively antagonized the audience
@@aliquidgaming1068as sun stated, and that you just said, it was clearly shovelware, in budget and scope, and quite frankly, incredibly diverse compared to the market today.
It's not who made them, but the fact that they knew to keep experiments on a lower scale, then ramp it up to full budget when they know they had something.
I think a big part of it is also a lack of disposable income for a lot of people. Not that people can’t afford a movie ticket or a $70 game, but those purchases take a bigger chunk out of their spending today so people are a lot more apprehensive to put money down for entertainment unless they’re VERY interested.
Companies aren't just out of touch - they also just don't care. Because it's all about selling a brand and not about what's behind it.
I agree. It seems like the industry is being run by professional managers trying to make arrow go up and not by people with a passion for making great games.
The Saints Row reboot game was the 'hello fellow kids' meme in video game form...
Not just out of touch with actual fans, but they employ a lot of people who have disdain for actual fans.
Employ a ton of people who have no business being in the business. It's clear they Do not want to be there and see it as worthless.
So the question is, why are they there if they hate it so much
this. actually crazy how it seems there's so many people within the industry that actively resent the audience they're marketing to. not even out of touch execs, but now some studio heads and devs.
It’s super obvious but some people actually defend them it’s so weird
You sound like a sweet baby fan
@@BlueBD Rent that is why many people do you think they don’t like for rent.
every modern ubisoft game writers have a room temp iq combined
Agreed, only the "ubisoft" part is superfluous.
Gonna install Watch_Dogs 1 again and mod it with Living_City which I hear is great.. who needs modern Ubisoft when we have modders doing the Lord's work?
Goes with Ubisoft's Gameplay. Its copy paste in all their franchises.
@@Killswitch1411
But it’s not even copy paste It gets worse with every new game they release
The flops back in the early to mid 2000s werent really weren't from big studios or they didnt have a huge marketing budget and just fell into obscurity. AAA use to make banger after banger with some pretty good low budget games thrown in. Now its a huge greedfest circle jerk on which studio can make the most money while throwing out all morals.
The problems all started when companies began thinking that Twitter was indicative of the real world and what paying customers wanted. This goes beyond just the gaming industry and encompasses corporate culture as a whole. Everyone seems to be trying to please a tiny but extremely vocal minority on Twitter because they confuse being the loudest with being the majority.
People are also watching their bank accounts get smaller and smaller. My budget is more stretched than it’s ever been. I’m not struggling as much as many but enough that spending $70 at a movie or $90 on a game isn’t something I do on a whim.
We had bad games in years past, but unlike back then there aren't new games coming out to take the heat off of them and occupy people's attention. That's why the microscope stays on these new flops.
An analogy:
In the past, 50% of the fish in a lake were healthy, the other 50% were sickly. Nowadays, the ratio is still the same but over half of the lake has dried up.
All these companies consolidated and now aren't outputting enough games to take the heat off of the stinkers.
There is no balance between bad and good games, for every bad game in the past there was a good one to offset it. now you just see a flood of bad games with little to no good games.
They are trying to force live service as a new standard
it will never work lol, not everyone can be fortnite
Idk who said it, but can't copy another game and hope to be the next fortnite, you have to create your own game and if it's good it will become next big hit. The problem is the suited idiots just see the other games numbers and just want to copy that.
It was my impression that it already is the standard.
@@majorborngusfluunduch8694 Yeah I think this too
They just don't want their current fans, they want new fans, fans that think like them...
Looks at AC games the last 10 years. Yup, sounds right 😢 Why do they hate us old fans
CALIFORNIA AND TWITTER.
These two situations combine to make writing of this quality and calibre
Forspoken more like Forclosure
😂😂
Lmao 😭😭
How many times does this lesson need to be taught old man
Savage 😂😂
Also, whoever thought of adding an alternate Mrs. Freeze over the easy bake open lay-up option of "Killer Frost" needs to be studied.
Paul Tassi is a hater of his audience too
Hes a game "Journlist" they often despise their audience and they think they are better and know better then the audience and customers
I don’t think the “crash” people are talking about is the gaming industry as a whole. I think it’s more isolated to individual companies. so if a game is bad there’s less leniency on it these days, and people will make content and farm its demise, if a studio has to shut down because of one bad game it’s probably good that they are going out of business 🤷🏻♂️.
*AAA Game industry crash. I never played most of the indie tiles due to having more then enough of good AAA games being released each year until 2015. Now I play mostly indie tiles.
Also 5-7 year dev cycle with 800+ teams (not dev teams mind you, HR, VP of useless dept etc as well...) it's not feasible.
My favourite games were made when studio's have had no more than 100 people working on it and the funny part is some of the games (that were made in a fraction of a budget compare to over-bloated teams & marketing budgets etc) have had or still has better graphic & animation compare to games that has been released in recent years...
I think its mostly the AAA sphere of gaming thats coming to collapse in on itself. there are plenty of small indie companies who will more than likely survive.
It’s the eternal problem of game writers trying to follow Hollywood script writing trends. It’s why Blizzard game dialog is just an endless series of catchphrases post Warcraft 3 for example
I worked in the game industry from 2015 to 2020. When Luke talks about the disconnect between gamers and developers it hits me particular hard. All my life I wanted to make games and in 2013 I started the SGD program in my community college. I did the programming route. The first day of SGD 111 we had our instructor, an ex Epic dev, show us a video with Dead or Alive and King of Fighter character and then she went on a rant how we should never make character designs like that. It got pretty political but every student remained silent. The first semester of SGD is made to filter most people so by second and third semester you are left with the people that will actually graduate. Sadly, the vast majority of people left are the same type as the devs that made Saints Row 2022 that thought the cringe slay dialogue was going to be accepted and sounded good. I will not lie, once I realized the game industry is led by these people I became the most vocal lefty and annoying progressive. I became friends with my instructors and would hang out with them at the local barcade. They introduced me to their friends, devs that worked in the industry and when I graduated I had job while most people coming out of SGD end up at places like Volt to be farmed out to game companies as contractors with no benefits. Video game developers in most AAA studios live in an echo chamber of progressive talking points so at this point they are as different to most gamers as their grandparents or parents that have no idea what gaming is.
Im sure a lot of people are clamouring to buy Assassins Creed : Kotaku
Thank you for your sentiment Alan, very refreshing to hear something spoken so calmly and with such consideration in a place where you otherwise may not have had to. It felt very mature and empathetic to all sides.
7:24 also people are relatively worse off in general, people aren't spending money because they don't have it to spend. If you make a product for purchase by the masses and the masses haven't got the money then expect sales to decline.
They fail to predict what people want in a few years and than they react by overcorrecting. It takes a bit until they hit the right balance again and than we start the cycle over again.
It happens in waves.
I feel this is like every 10 years in the movie industry
and there is the other side of the coin, which is just reactionary.
Suits up top who just say "this was successful, so make this" without a grasp on what makes it actually good.
there will be so many bad Baldurs Gate clones in the future.
A good writer knows and admire other people and put them in the work. A bad writer put himself because he thinks he's the hero of every story.
Voting with your wallet has never meant more in gaming than today imo. These AAA titles have massively inflated budgets and distended, unorganized development cycles that shift on a dime trying to chase trends. Not buying into the slop is vital to show how you feel because the companies are losing out on much more. I hate that it usually ends up hurting the frontline devs most instead of upper management but high profile losses for these companies force them to pay attention. SSKTJL to me is a perfect example. This isn’t 2013 anymore, gamers know what live service, focus group slop looks like. We can see all the signs from a mile away. Not that live services are inherently bad, but their recent utilization has ranged from mostly good\inoffensive (HD2) to damn near criminal (OW, SSKTJL, Avengers). The cringy dialogue and writing is just the icing on the ‘out of touch’ cake.
8:40 On the backlash of rehashed old ideas, I do tend to wonder if "Fall Guy" might have actually done better if it didn't reference the old show. I thought it was a film at its best when it was trying to do its own thing as opposed to pointing and winking at some reference from a long dead show. And for the love of god, these productions just need to be cheaper. 130 million should be mega blockbuster level money, NOT early spring romcoms. I am awestruck by the thought that Madame Web cost 80+ million. Unbelievable.
It’s funny to think that one of the early Ultima games was made for $3 million
@@smokedbeefandcheese4144 Yeah, but there wasn't 800+ people "working" on it. All of these people require salary ranging from £20K to £100K a year. Also now you have to pay a lot of fees (for tools, store fronts etc), marketing, legal teams and so on...
Not that I'm defending that but it's the current reality of a "AAA" game studio & publisher.
then why even have the title be "Fall Guy" if not to reference the old show. they could have just called it something else if it was going to be its own thing.
I truly believe the budget reason is a lot of higher ups being waaaaay too overvalued. Like sure, people need to be paid well for their work and what they bring to the team/production, but I feel if Fall guy cost $130 million, no less than 40-50 million went to Ryan and Emily, along with a few Higher-ups
I like how this has been happening for years And only now they start to suspect something.
As of late, a lot of people involved with entertainment industries (games, movies, TV, etc.) have been showing that the only thing they know how to write is a check.
Bad writing can undercut a lot of good or otherwise passable aspects of a product, if not ruining it outright. It feels like all of the wrong people are involved with writing, to the point where even something with average dialogue can be seen as great.
There are many issues. First of all no one writes anything this days. All writing is made by a group of writers along with consultant agencies etc.
Imagine if Tolkien tries to write Lord of the Rings by gathering every person in town and all sitting together writing stuff and mixing it together.
Stories are great because they include someone's vision. But now every game has 10-30 writers a few story consultants and after they write something the suits also intervene and ask that things are rewritten in certain way etc.
It's a mess. How can you write anything with single vision and coherence?
And then they cry that budgets are blowing up and they need to raise prices of games. well when you pay a whole room of stuff to write anything along with other companies when you used to have one or two guys write stories of course you budgets will go threw the roof.
Wanna talk about bad writing? Have you heard the story of Past Lives?? And how it's considered Oscar worthy? I don't get how alot of people are given checks to make the horseshit they do. I mean, I do know, it's "diversity" and because it's a non-white person.
(Not being hateful, but it feels fairly obvious why they do what they do)
I listen to your videos while driving home from work and want to let you know the end card music is mixed a bit loud compared to your mic. It can be a jumpscare when I have my volume turned up to compensate for highway noise lol.
Luke, the deluxe edition of Madden is $50 CHEAPER than Assassins Creeed. What are you talking about? This pricing model has never existed before this year. $140 for an all digital edition does not exist pre 2023 in gaming anywhere. Not a fan of a take that normalizes this.
ubisoft have the same model than years ago, the only the diference is the main price of the game, when a couple years a game used to be 60$, now days they are selling for 80$. But all the rest of the crap like season pass, gold edition etc... they haven't rise the price of that. The last game i buy from ubisoft was the AS Valhalla and that game was 60$ after that i buy the season pass 40$ more = 100$ (that would be like buying the gold edition of the game). Now days they are selling this AS for 70$ if you add to that the season pass would be exactly the 40$ that i expend a couple years ago when they release the AS valhala (is a crap i know but they are being on this shit for years). Back then the Deluxe edition was being sell for 120$.
Madden itself is just a cash grab, it is NOT a different game whatsoever, it is a $70 micro-transaction. They should never make those games ever again
Not to mention how UBI also has the stupid subscription model for all of the different versions lol. 9 a month to play base game 15 to play deluxe gold edition
But the reason they priced assassin's creed so high is because they are actually just trying to push people to subscribe to their ubisoft+ for $15 a month. It's a big ask.
Bad comparison
I really don't want to blame Joss Whedon for this new style of writing but...
Yeah I DEFINITELY blame Joss Whedon. He was the OG ironic Millennial writer.
If the majority thinks they are pushing an agenda, they are pushing an agenda, there is no "we didn't mean to push agenda" it's "we're so brainwashed by the agenda we don't even realize we're pushing it".
Madden is a bad example, no gamers care about Madden, only sports fans do.
EA adding ads to their games genuinely makes sense, seeing RL ads in EA Sports games instead of imaginary ads could slightly improve the experience for many, as long as it's not terribly handled, I don't see no issue with these.
I find your abundance of faith in otherwise obviously incompetent writers disturbing.
As one of the ancients who grew up in the 80's, I can tell you with certainty that this is not the same as the game drought of the 80's. The number of shitty games that have come out from big companies is high, but what happened in the 80's was that eventually by E.T. all the games were bad...so bad everyone that I knew that loved games like me just...stopped playing games. And I am not exaggerating, As a kid I didn't care about games again till one of my more well off friends showed off the Nintendo to my family, and that was a year or two after its realease. I honestly don't think we will ever see that again, there are too many games out there and consumers and kids keep buying these games like Madden etc that are just little gambling stores and that fuels these companies and encourages them to make more swill! Also, we still have a ton of indy games that are great and keep us hoping AAA and AAAA (yuck) will clean up their act. It is a shame really, I think the industry could use a small break from milking us for cash with crap
I like Luke and his commentary, the one thing that rubs me the wrong way is his frequent attitude of “look at all these people out there with a silly uninformed opinion.” I mean a lot of times he’s right, people tend to blow things once it gets Internet traction, but ultimately that traction means something too. Assassin‘s Creed isn’t Madden, it’s not call of duty. It’s assassin’s creed. And yes, every iteration becomes a more bloated bag of moneygrubbing, but this seems to be at the top of its own pile. You can’t necessarily look at two very different games with two very different pricing structures and simply compare them.
He looks at videogames as a whole and looks at them objectively. That's why he compared it to other games. He looks broader than just one franchise.
I mean you can look at ac valhalla for example
$60 base game price, $40 for season pass
$100 at launch price
AC shadows
$70 base game
$40 season pass
Full price at launch $110
Its legit $10 difference.
Now if an idiot wants to pay $20 for a skin pack early they can go for the ultimate edition.
Also youd have to add if they have an expansion outside of the season pass like valhalla for $40
The reason studios won't listen is due to a combination of the creatively mediocre lead creative directors who aren't open to criticism or changes to their decisions while usually having a pretty big ego; developers who are so overworked they don't have time for massive changes due to feedback and just need to push things to the finish line; and company leader's who micromanage the writers instead of trusting the writer's competence.
While there of course are a lot of bad writers, often very inexperienced ones who's almost never read an actual book or learned anything about storytelling, it's usually the leading figures who've reached their position not on competence or knowledge, but through other means of climbing the ladder. The times we see really good games with good writing are the rare ones with actually creative and intelligent leaders who respect the art over their egos. No one can deny that Rockstar is a company that shines in that regard. Because they put storytelling, characters and the atmosphere of the game at the forefront of priorities rather than a slapped on necessity just to have some framing.
It's not rocket science. Get people who understands art beyond games, who have deeper thoughts and ideas about the world and not just shallow twitter and tiktok level of societal understanding. It's the same thing in all other forms of expression; life needs to be lived and understood beyond the form that is being worked in. It's one of the first lessons to smack students in the face with in good film schools when they just dig down into prestige films and only think in those terms. Out and suffer, out and see, out and live, then you are able to express honestly.
You can't expect great art from people living in a bubble consuming social media and admiring themselves in the mirror.
I wonder why is it that games like Forespoken are being criticized for poor dialogue when at the same time JRPGs are being praised. I couldn't sit in the same room when my wife was playing through FFVII Remake.
14:40 "If you show up wearing a fanny pack, strike one!" -Luke Stephens
Lmao
They stop taking risks, they stop being creative, they stop prioritizing customers and avoiding being "offensive" to some. This had lead towards their demise
Why I like games like Outlast Trials! It's a game that knows it's definitely rubbing people the wrong way, but it's intriguing and creates buzz. It's taboo and has alot of content and themes/violence/imagery, etc. That most publishers and companies wouldn't dare produce or stand by. That's why Red Barrels was founded lmao. It's not for everyone but for the people it catches, its almost always a new customer. If that makes sense (sorry I'm high)
@@duckieg420_4 thx for sharing bro 👍
I completely agree with Luke here, most of the current entertainment problems come from bad writing, or more general, total lack of creativity. ESG crap is obviously part of it, but that is not the only reason. The other reason is the suits don't have passion for videoganes and don't have balls to do something fresh. That is why everything is designed by committee, and noting creative will ever come out of a committee. A typical MBA corporate executive is often the most spineless slug you can come across.
And at the opposite end of the company there are activists who often hate games and gamers, and the diversity hires with zero passion, talent or brains.
So there you have it - balls-less and brainless leadership at the top and incompetent activist DEI hires at the bottom. No wonder if the company is structured like that the games come out like shit.
is there a technique in writing to get characters who are LGBT+ accepted by people who hate progressive politics in video games?
@@heroicgangster9981 yeah, write actual characters, I dont want to be pandered to. screw that paragon of justice that feels off in the world
@@heroicgangster9981sure. It would have to be genuine. Peolle hate it cause it’s deceptive and fake.. the singular goal of these activists is to infuse everything with their world view.. the goal should be to make a good product.. but it’s clearly not.
I don’t know I feel like you’re just a right winger and no matter what happens you’re going to hate what’s in the game. Because your politics are from 1865 like anyone who talks about activists at companies probably just doesn’t like gay people. And doesn’t want them in games and there is no way to do that that will make you happy
@@heroicgangster9981 yes. Look at BG3 for example. When you write a good character that happens to be gay no one has issues with it.
Also, most of the time the sexuality of a video game character does not matter at all. Who cares if a Doom Guy prefers makes or females when the game is about shredding demons.
But the degenerate pink haired activists want the games to advertise gayness of everything and everyone, whether it is suitable or not.
I think the problem is also how few great games we get now. We used to get a variety of amazing triple a quality games back then but development takes so long now those games are much fewer and further between and it makes those bad games much more obvious because it might be the only big game coming in what could be months. We got 4 good-great Arkham games in a 6 year span. It’s been almost 8 years since an Arkham game and in that time the studio only gave us the horrible mess that is SSKTJL
I think there are more flops from major titles, whether from just being bad or from poor performance. And they're taking longer, improving less, seems like massive leaps forward for console generations are over, no new IPs, so many remakes and remasters, microtransaction hell, etc. I don't think we're in the crash yet, but we're certainly approaching it. What's happening to the industry overall is not sustainable.
Can’t be friends with any man who wears skinny jeans
OMG Arnold voicing Freeze would be the best thing in all of gaming
Your assessment of Saints Row was right on. That fuck-up should be required reading in MBA courses. Seriously, what percentage of their audience did they feel like they were appealing to? And what about me? The guy who bought every Saint’s Row game and all the expansion packs. It was clear the studio didn’t give one shit. They left my, and many other’s, money on the table.
Project Farm has a video comparing thermal cups, Stanley and Yeti are included.
Don't ask questions, just consume product and get excited for next product.
But seriously though that Forspoken dialogue was pure cringe.
17:15
Luke: let me just play the dialog ...
Me: press mute button like my life depends on it
I think the problem is that in the last few years almost every big studio that used to produce amazing games did everything they could to destroy their own reputation and erode all the goodwill that players had for them. Now people are much more inclined to speak out against them and to ridicule them when yet another bad game is released by a multi-billion dollar company. The same goes for movie studios too.
Arnold Schwarzenegger Freeze would be a blast! Everyone talks about his dead wife and Arnold-Freeze is just "what wife? my only love is for diamonds" and makes the absolute worst ice puns all the time to the point the other squad members are telling him to shut up. Yes it'd stop being funny eventually but they just need to make people life for his intro season to get the money for skins n whatnot.
I agree with the devil´s advocate argument that it can be true that the "Being out of touch" and "Don´t care" options don´t necessarily exclude each other, as in "I´m out of touch to a point where I don´t care what anybody thinks, I still think my approach is the correct one and people should like it". That being said, I don´t know if it has been mentioned but there´s also the super inflated development costs. Which is also a thing that happens in the movie industry with these blockbuster type films in combination with all the lecturing, poor quality and everything else, and going back to the A) and B) options and subverting expectations, there´s also knowing, or at least suspecting that something might or will divide your audience, doing it anyway for whatever reason and then going into surprised pikachu face mode when people start walking away and you lose potential sales, a chunk of your initial audience or both.
Also the thing about the pricing models/strategies being already there for years doesn´t invalidate the complaints or addresses any argument, if anything, it´s an acknowledgement that the problem is even larger.
When people try to tell you that CEOs deserve their huge bonuses for steering the ship, this is what they are supposed to mean: anticipating what people will actually want. But then they drive these companies into the ground and it's the consumer and troops on the frontline who pay.
Battleborn was great it just came out same day as overwatch
Hard agree. I loved that game so much
In all fairness, not playing as Mr Freeze isn't the problem, as far as im aware, he's never been in the Suicide Squad, the problem lies in the fact if they had to make a villian like that, why choose one from a different dimension and not use one that makes sense and has been in the Suicide Squad before and not use Killer Frost? its basically not far off the same concept and playstyle and would be cooler to play.
I mean, yeah, Rocksteady went with the daugther of Mr Freeze, that's indeed dumb. Yes they gave her a refrigerator look, that's terrible too.
But you can't also discount how they also very much aimed for the short-hair lesbian-style + almost male-ish non-feminine body-shape JUST TO DRIVE everything home too. I'm not saying a woman should have huge breasts and ridiculous curves, but when I was imagining "mrs Freeze", even at worst, I expected to be able to immediately identify a woman. For a moment, I legit thought this was a guy.
This to me is another big change in both the movie and video-game industry. The push for all the DEI stuff. That wasn't a thing a decade ago.
30:20 My theory is they looked at GTA5, concluded that the characters are total A-holes, and that they should create total a-hole characters in their game, as well... not understanding that characters have to be likable, even as they are being total a-holes. I think maybe they didn't really understand the nuance that makes Trevor a total psychotic PoS that's still hilarious and entertaining to watch.
You are probably correct. But I'll add the ppl who wrote Trevor knew that he was a psychotic pos and dint pretend he was anything else. It is why he works. The characters in saints row are written as idlf they have some sort of moral high ground. They are bad ppl but are written as is lf they are good.
Game crash is soley dependant upon ones perspective. For example, as an RE fan, is there a game crash? Hell no, in fact theres never been a better time to be a resident evil fan. Hell we just got a leak for the next doom game and it SOUNDS AWESOME! For me, i enjoy playing the same titles so even like re2 remake still keeps me going. So am I in a gamr crash? No, not at all. But are those who want a new title every year? Yeah, and they always will be.
Sad Battlefield and Halo noises.. BF5 and Infinite are generally fine now but I have basically no faith going forward.
@@EhEhEhEINSTEIN I get the sadness and lack of faith, but certain companies are doing well. Like the new doom game about be announced, that game guarantee will be awesome, but if one keeps putting faith in companies and games that have proven to have a shitty track record, then what can you really expect?
Biggest problem with Forespoken, inconsistency and a 'skydiving without a parachute' character development.
Ex...
Girl: I'm just misunderstood, right?
Judge: No, you're terrible.
Girl: Game, I'm actually good, right?
Game: No, you're a monster.
Villain: Jo, I'm obviously evil and you couldn't figure it out from my first evil laugh and obvious plot progression.
Girl: Psyche. I'm actually a nice person when I'm the one to benefit from it.
Game: Psyche. The budget ran out, here's a non-cliff-hanger and a terrible DLC.
DLC: Remember that unsatisfying ending... I'll make it confusing and underwhelming too.
I also think it has to do with the cost of living crysis we are piving in. Everyone i know is living pay cheque to pay cheque. So of course I'm going to just wait until the new mad max movie is available on a streaming service instead of paying $60-70 to go to a movie I may or may not like. Same goes with games I can't remember the last game I got on release day i usually wait for a sale. I don't have $100 to drop on a game that may or may not work. Especially when 90% of my pay cheque goes to bills and rent.
As someone that plays dead by daylight now and again, I can see this happening in real time. sometimes they try to deliver something you enjoy and then even when you see something horrible about to happen they push out a change because they didn't have time to fix the issue only to fix it 6 months later and making people put up with a badly implimented change for 6 months because their priorities are elsewhere.
Kens Rage 2 was fucking amazing as a Fist Of The North Star fan. One of my favorite Warriors/Musou games
The main problem for modern games is they are being made to appease investors and activists but not the people who actually play games
The thing is the activists don't want to pay for anything. Because they just want to be mad and not actually do something. They inconvenience people at best, and commit social suicide at worst, making normal people actually hate the very cause they claim to champion.
Want to know why anti lgbt rhetoric is going up online? Blame the people who make it out like all lgbt people are fucking psychotic through their "activism". Treating it like that's the only thing that matters.
there wont be a game crash because there are so many games making billions of dollars but I do believe a lot of big AAA publishers will continue to lose a lot of money as they become more bland and safe as they try to sell more and copy other successful games, also, the people writing games and making character designs in the West are at complete odds with most gamers, no one wants ugly characters made on purpose. During the American video game crash all console games sales crashed and that damaged Atari and other companies to the point that many went under or got sold off. It was until the NES came out that the market began to recover.
Honestly I don't necesarrily think that the issue is visibility and like youtube and Twitch and such, I think the issue is more that the games that used to flop and suck were USUALLY smaller titles. Movie Tie-In games were notorious for being terrible. Cash grabs like Barbie, or when Lucas Arts used to give more or less everyone permission to make a Star Wars game we got some really good, but also really bad ones. But usually those were small games.
It is pretty new that it is mainly massively expensive Triple A titles that are bombing like that. That used to be pretty much exclusively EA's domain.
Where did you get the Titanic model on your shelf???
the most horrible Marvel quip writing in video games has to be Forspoken and Immortals of Aveum.
The new Sony hero shooter Concord also looks to have it and it just burned the game for so many people.
Red Squiggles x Stnky Sorting hat = VIEWS & MONEY!!!! LMAO!!!
In every example you gave I just kept thinking Sweet Baby Ideology detected. They dumb down games for game journos now bc of past game backlash over Dark Souls and such.
Its so sad that furiosa isnt doing better. Its such a great movie. And YOU NEED to watch it in cinemas. Unless you got like a 70" + screen, furiose, just like fury road wont work.
I just got burned out on girl power
I feel like we’ve also got less surprise hits or flawed but really fun AA/indies
20:20 tell me I'm crazy, but does that not look a LOT like if Maynard from Tool was cosplaying as the Joker? lol
He was using that Terrence Howard math
As someone in the film and tv world. I see it all the time in film writing as well.
Just recently saw Snack Shack, which is meant to be two 14 year old kids in the early 90's, that sound like 25 year old youtube sketch comedy writers.
So it feels like not just out of touch, but also completely missing frame of reference.
A Mad Max Movie without Mad Max sounds like they were asking to have a flop.
As you said, it's the same in games and movies these days, too many incompetent people are involved because there's money to be made.
I wouldn't say we're getting more flops.
But I would say the AAA industry's failure to learn from their flops is catching up to them the more money they try to throw at the problem.
I always tell people, the early and mid 00's gave us Aquaman: Battle for Atlantis. The 90's gave us Superman 64. The 80's gave us Atari's E.T.
We aren't getting more, just that the profiles of the flops are getting bigger.
In my opinion the biggest problem with the gaming and movie industry is the lack of innovation, we could say that we’ve seen all that the movies a games can offer it’s all the same now days, plus everything being controlled by huge corporations that basically are moved by money and not quality products.
What more can we innovate? The problem is that people are trend chasing instead of making a game that they well and truly do want to make. Like, Onrush may have been somewhat in the trend trenches, but FUCK it was incredibly fun, and felt incredible to play. I wish I could play it again...
The problem isn't the lack of innovation, it's the lack of passion. Creatives in the modern era are being "replaced" by automated code that is trying to imitate a person, without any of the capacity to what makes a good person. Aspiration, Imagination, Passion, Creativity, Drive, and Inspiration. An "ai" just does what it is told. It has no autonomy.
People are being ground down into drones, no different than "ai". The only difference is that people will inevitably give out because we are not machines.
That's the problem. The passion for gaming is dying out in the scene of creating them, because of the executive system and greed of corporate leaders and shareholders, trying to fulfill a lie that has been proven without question.
"INFINITE GROWTH, LINE MUST ALWAYS GO UP, AND AT ALL COSTS". Which means that if it ever drops, or it is projected to, then slash and burn until it's a growth. And try to repeat with less workers or cheaper workers and repeat. It's unsustainable, but knowing how the greedy work, they are only capable of seeing short term things. Instead of long term sustainability.
In an ideal world, we would have companies where the people at the top, are paid less than the actual people doing the work. Because what does an executive really matter outside of being the person, who is handling the finances. We don't need CEO's. We need passionate people who want to bring dreams to life. And a system that actually treats them well. Otherwise, we are going to live in cyberpunk, minus all the cyber and where punk is stomped out completely. A world of people infected by brain rot and all subservient to the dictators without any thought or drive to have an independence. Just obedience.
Tldr, kill all corpos and shareholders, make lobbying illegal, and force executives to be paid equal to or less than their workforce. And have pay be based on what you are doing and how hard you work for it. Champion sustainability over all else.
That Saints Row dialogue is real sitcom-level stuff.
Thats actually all Saints Row ever was, it sounded par for course. I only played through 3 and 4, loved those but i just didnt get this new one because i was interested in other stuff. Why did people actually hate the new one?
Im only 9 minutes in but for me on why the triple A market is going down hill... is
1. Alot of multiplayer focus games uses fomo, heavy microtranactions. Battle passes, and eomm/sbmm which i dislike all of those... and that is a major turnoff for me.
2. The ability to play the game offline... which is becoming less and less common... I do have reliable internet at 500mb a second. But i also have a steamdeck I like to be able to play a game offline if access to the internet is unavailable. Whatever the reason for having no internet may be.
3. Alot of the singleplayer Triple A games have become a grind slog lgbtqrxy+ DEI microtranactions timesavers fest. Which ruins my enjoyment for such games...
A crash shouldn’t be measured by the number of flops alone, but by how many revolutionary games get released. How many games have launched recently that set a standard, or change the industry? Elden ring and Baldur’s Gate 3 are the only two that can think of.
I wonder if this phenomenon is a knock on effect to the writers strike that took place last year? I saw that was just from movies potentially though
Why go out to see a movie?
Expensive tickets, concessions, sticky floors, sweaty smelly seats, possibility of a random gunman in theatre-
It’s not fucking worth it.
I can watch at home
Hilarious that Saints Row writers thought making fun of workers was the point when we have games like Trucker Simulator and Mechanics Simulator that sell well lol
I think the reason flops stand out so much now is because we don't have as many games to drown them out. We've probably had roughly the same number of flop games over the recent console gens but the ratio of flop:total games is a lot worse. Plus with games getting more expensive it's not just "game X flopped" it's become "150 million dollar game X flopped" it becomes so much bigger and the budgets require so much more since straight up sales won't cover the costs in some cases so it's not just needing more copies sold, it's needing more copies and more MTX or whatever sold to cover these catastrophic losses.
Like others have said too. A lot of modern games aren't made by gamers for gamers. They're made for investors. They're made to get people in the door so the studio execs can go "See? We got X number of people. If you give us more money we'll make another game and get even more people." They promise infinite growth when it's simply not there.
That actress is collecting infinity stones of Bad Movie, Bad NetflixSeries, and now a Bad VideoGame...wonder if she already starred in a Bad MusicVideo
DEI and ESG writing. It has NOTHING to do with freedom or creativity!
A lot younger generation is taking over development of games and story writing and then you have companies like sweet baby inc with their BS
They are completely out of touch
Assassins Creed 3 even did the different editions in 2012 lol.
Yeah but the top edition came with some cool shit, like a statue of Connor (still have that one). Now you get nothing tangible for all that money.
@@majorborngusfluunduch8694 I'm talking about digital editions but yes there were indeed also collectors editions at that time.
@@misterhoobomaster But they didn't cross mark of £64.99, now its £99.99 without season pass... Also in that price you could but a collectors edition with physical stuff like I did with Ubisoft points discount I've got a Odyssey Collector Edition with Alexios statue lol.
I belive its the discrepency of what a game cost to make today that makes people suddenly go "Wait just one god damn minute - you spent WHAT on this crap?". A polished turd at least didnt cost so much back in the days.
It’s hard to know how much of those costs are real vs accounting tricks.
I understand why you’re saying that people are burnt out of sequels and spin-offs, but at the same time whenever someone does something that isn’t connected to a well-known IP it also often falls short for some reason.
Robert Meyer Burnett made a very interesting point about the writing in games and the entertainment media in general. It's now full of writers that were heavily influenced by the Buffy and Twilight era. The irreverant, teen angst, snark focus with quickfire dialogue of (attempted) wit. Absolutely fine for teen/early adult shows but cannot be extrapolated out to other genre's like fantasy and hi-brow sci-fi. He singled out the disaster that was Star Trek Discovery as the prime example with TV but this kind of writing is pervasive everywhere.
More of this kind of criticism please. Keep the pressure and pain on the gaming industry and keep them intellectually honest