Mike Renner, Maximum respect. I had OT Darnell Wright ranked as the number 3 OT 2 months ago. 1. Paris Johnson 2. Broderick Jones 3. Darnell Wright ***Peter Skoronski is a Guard. Sorry, you may get away with T-Rex arms in the Big 10, but not in the NFL where most Edge Rushers have 33 and 34 inch arms. I keep saying to RUclips mock drafters that the Patriots should pick Tenn. OT Darnell Wright at 1/14. People keep saying the value is bad. Now I have the illustrious Mike Renner agreeing with my Darnell Wright value. I have the Patriots taking OT Darnell Wright at 1/14 because the starting OT talent quickly evaporates mid 2nd round on. CB can be addressed at 2/46 DJ Turner because the CB talent goes into the 4th tound. WR can be addressed at 3/76 Trey Palmer, Marvin Mims, or Jayden Reed, and then 3 picks in the 4th round can be used to fill out the talent depleted roster brought on by horrendous Bill Belichick drafts from 2015 to 2020. Now that Matt Groh is running the NE Draft (2021, 2022) things are getting better. The only WR I'd take at 1/14 would be Zay Flowers. If the Patriots took Flowers at 1/14, they could trade up to Carolina at 2/39 by trading 2/46 & 4/116 to Carolina. At 2/39 Ohio St Right Tackle Dawand Jones would be my pick. Then NE would still have their 3/76 & 4/107, 4/134 picks.
I understand and agree with Mike's gripe with player comps often being to hall of famers and how it's unrealistic. But I think it would be better to do two comps, one either a ceiling or high end comparison and one that's more realistic or even a low end comp of the players potential. As a viewer, name dropping an obscure player from a decade ago just doesn't paint a picture but if you tell me "at the high end of the player's potential they can be this guy but more realistically he's like this player you've never heard of" that's much better. Great show as always
By week 5 into the season, I was pounding the table for Devon Witherspoon, when he was still projected in the 3rd round I was mocking him to Washington saying he was better than Porter, Ringo, Cam Smith & all the early 1st round CB Projections, Then I got on the Julius Brents/Cory Trice train well before the Senior Bowl/Combine. Brents got all the hype at the Senior Bowl & everyone finally caught up with me there, & Mike just finally caught up on Cory Trice moving him for the 220s-230s to 93
@@GodsServant543 True, but safeties and LBs don't crush you consistently the same way they used to. Not even close. It almost benefits you to be small and quick. Guys can't even be too physical because it looks like illegal contact lol
@@frankl3518 Yeah, the safeties and LB’s are also smaller and faster. Not to mention offenses are more creative. BUT… it’s usually specific offenses that can excel with smaller guys, and it’s still harder to win without a significant size threat on offense, that provides a size mismatch.
I do a lot of the same stuff as Sam with movement making my comps. For example I comped Garrett Wilson to smaller faster DHop. Has the same movement and running style to me and on top that it also helps that he is good attacking the ball
Why is the pff draft board so low on Andei Iosivas? I know he's a day 3 prospect but the Average has him at 148 compared to pff position 273. Had a decent senior bowl and combine so seems strange to me
I think you guys forgot the Fox kid from OSU who played for the Vikings. He didn't play for 10 years like Seahorn but I think he was a multi year starter.
100%. Sam talking about movements but didn't see that. He isn't the sharpest for me. Zay moves nothing like either of those guys. More like a lesser Brandon Cooks
@@frankl3518 Zay reminds me of AB. It will be an outlier if he’s close to his level but they have a lot of similarities in how they move and they can go up and get it at small statures
I'll give you guys mine before the show starts let me know if I'm ass but I couldn't help but keep thinking Jalen Ramsey while watching Witherspoon over and over again it kept popping into my head.
Ramsey is much bigger, longer. 20lbs heavier. More athletic. But besides that, yea. Lol. It's just they both are physical and talk alot. Witherspoon will be a smaller outside CB
@@frankl3518 if you listen to what they said about player comparisons you would know I don't mean he is just like Ramsey when I say that I mean mentality and playstyle wise they are extremely similar to me. I don't mean height weight. They do the same things and play with similar levels of aggression and have a lot of the same strengths
@Brandon Coleman I disagree. Alot of corners play like that. If you're gonna compare someone to a player you have to take into account size. Half the corners in the league have that mentality. They just aren't great players. Ramsey is built in a lab to play corner physically. Witherspoon is average physically.
@@frankl3518 I don't care that not only do you disagree with me but the two people who do this for a living in the video. Your just a random scrub who is creating strange rules for people you don't know. "I think you have to compare size" cool nobody cares what you think you have to do. I'm not playing by your rules.
@@frankl3518 and not even remotely close when you say alot of corners play like that. You obviously are missing important things in watching the tape if you think alot of corners play like that, but your allowed to have braindead takes just like everyone else is I won't stop you!
The wisdom of the crowds was wrong on Tariq Woolen and I had him as a second rounder. Not enough people are ever gonna watch enough UTSA tape to make an informed opinion. Meanwhile, I was depressed and wanted my 49ers to get better and had ample time to watch tape due to a loss of a job last year. Tariq could run backwards faster than his competition could run forward at the group of 5 level and the ball skills of a wr4 in the nfl. When you combine elite athleticism almost superhuman with great ball skills that is why I had him so high as a corner.
I'm fine with guys rising because of the combine, even tho that's risky. I don't love when guys rise that you were lower on them most for seemingly no reason. That feels like group think to me. Way too much of that in the draft media space. Trust your eyes. Fans of yours like you because they see the game similarly. Most fans evaluate on highlights. They can't be trusted.
Sam is the only one who has improved at his job over the past 3 years. Renner is just a personality and is not a true evaluater of talent. He gives very surface level insight and then relies on the PFF Grades & other ppls mock drafts to put out his content
Noone ever mentions it but Renner has elite recall for someone in his 30s
Renner is carrying the content department single handedly
@@realcade that explains the state of the draft board
Player evaluation such a hard but fascinating subject. These 2 guys do it pretty well. Tkz 4 your expertise.
Mike Renner, Maximum respect. I had OT Darnell Wright ranked as the number 3 OT 2 months ago.
1. Paris Johnson
2. Broderick Jones
3. Darnell Wright
***Peter Skoronski is a Guard. Sorry, you may get away with T-Rex arms in the Big 10, but not in the NFL where most Edge Rushers have 33 and 34 inch arms.
I keep saying to RUclips mock drafters that the Patriots should pick Tenn. OT Darnell Wright at 1/14. People keep saying the value is bad. Now I have the illustrious Mike Renner agreeing with my Darnell Wright value. I have the Patriots taking OT Darnell Wright at 1/14 because the starting OT talent quickly evaporates mid 2nd round on. CB can be addressed at 2/46 DJ Turner because the CB talent goes into the 4th tound. WR can be addressed at 3/76 Trey Palmer, Marvin Mims, or Jayden Reed, and then 3 picks in the 4th round can be used to fill out the talent depleted roster brought on by horrendous Bill Belichick drafts from 2015 to 2020. Now that Matt Groh is running the NE Draft (2021, 2022) things are getting better.
The only WR I'd take at 1/14 would be Zay Flowers. If the Patriots took Flowers at 1/14, they could trade up to Carolina at 2/39 by trading 2/46 & 4/116 to Carolina. At 2/39 Ohio St Right Tackle Dawand Jones would be my pick. Then NE would still have their 3/76 & 4/107, 4/134 picks.
I understand and agree with Mike's gripe with player comps often being to hall of famers and how it's unrealistic. But I think it would be better to do two comps, one either a ceiling or high end comparison and one that's more realistic or even a low end comp of the players potential. As a viewer, name dropping an obscure player from a decade ago just doesn't paint a picture but if you tell me "at the high end of the player's potential they can be this guy but more realistically he's like this player you've never heard of" that's much better.
Great show as always
Sam mentioned his Charlie Jones miss , then he popped up on DB evaluations !! That's how Josh Palmer got on the Bolts radar !!!
PFF is the best. But I remember reading during his career, that Isaac Bruce ran a 4.52 at the combine.
By week 5 into the season, I was pounding the table for Devon Witherspoon, when he was still projected in the 3rd round I was mocking him to Washington saying he was better than Porter, Ringo, Cam Smith & all the early 1st round CB Projections, Then I got on the Julius Brents/Cory Trice train well before the Senior Bowl/Combine. Brents got all the hype at the Senior Bowl & everyone finally caught up with me there, & Mike just finally caught up on Cory Trice moving him for the 220s-230s to 93
You should be a scout bro fr
They have to consider that the game has changed as well… a smaller reciever could run across middle without the fear of being lit up
only in specific schemes lol. If you’re a boring coordinator and your route combinations suck, you can still get crushed. It could just be a flag now…
@@GodsServant543 True, but safeties and LBs don't crush you consistently the same way they used to. Not even close. It almost benefits you to be small and quick. Guys can't even be too physical because it looks like illegal contact lol
@@frankl3518 Yeah, the safeties and LB’s are also smaller and faster. Not to mention offenses are more creative. BUT… it’s usually specific offenses that can excel with smaller guys, and it’s still harder to win without a significant size threat on offense, that provides a size mismatch.
PFF the “outlier” podcast 🤣🤣
Mike: “I like realistic player comps”
Sam: “who’s your comp for Flowers”
Mike “T.Y Hilton”…..
Dante Hall comp was worse.
Where is it unrealistic
He said physically though is how he does his comps. Literally said he’s not saying they’ll be as good or bad as their comp
I do a lot of the same stuff as Sam with movement making my comps. For example I comped Garrett Wilson to smaller faster DHop. Has the same movement and running style to me and on top that it also helps that he is good attacking the ball
I'm legitimately confused as to how you could play safety in the SEC and have a vert in the 20s and bad change of direction. Just makes no sense.
Is this Christopher Smith that played at the University of Georgia. 4.62 40
Why is the pff draft board so low on Andei Iosivas?
I know he's a day 3 prospect but the Average has him at 148 compared to pff position 273.
Had a decent senior bowl and combine so seems strange to me
Andre Carter makes a lot of sense for Washington too if he slips far enough,so we can have someone on tap if we let Sweat or Chase go.
I think you guys forgot the Fox kid from OSU who played for the Vikings. He didn't play for 10 years like Seahorn but I think he was a multi year starter.
Troy Apke was listed at CB for Washington, made the 53 made roster back in 2021 and was white. Don't forget about White Lightning!
Nowadays the WR Dante Hall to me is Kadarius Toney
100%. Sam talking about movements but didn't see that. He isn't the sharpest for me. Zay moves nothing like either of those guys. More like a lesser Brandon Cooks
@@frankl3518 Zay reminds me of AB. It will be an outlier if he’s close to his level but they have a lot of similarities in how they move and they can go up and get it at small statures
Devon Witherspoon = Asante Samuel Sr
Jordan Addison = Calvin Ridley
Sydney Brown = Mike Brown
JL Skinner = Kam Chancellor
The comp for Levis is Josh Allen. Allen was terrible in College and his 1st 2 seasons in the NFL
As far as the Bijan thing goes, don’t HOF college career’s deserve HOF comps?
I'll give you guys mine before the show starts let me know if I'm ass but I couldn't help but keep thinking Jalen Ramsey while watching Witherspoon over and over again it kept popping into my head.
Ramsey is much bigger, longer. 20lbs heavier. More athletic. But besides that, yea. Lol. It's just they both are physical and talk alot. Witherspoon will be a smaller outside CB
@@frankl3518 if you listen to what they said about player comparisons you would know I don't mean he is just like Ramsey when I say that I mean mentality and playstyle wise they are extremely similar to me. I don't mean height weight. They do the same things and play with similar levels of aggression and have a lot of the same strengths
@Brandon Coleman I disagree. Alot of corners play like that. If you're gonna compare someone to a player you have to take into account size. Half the corners in the league have that mentality. They just aren't great players. Ramsey is built in a lab to play corner physically. Witherspoon is average physically.
@@frankl3518 I don't care that not only do you disagree with me but the two people who do this for a living in the video. Your just a random scrub who is creating strange rules for people you don't know. "I think you have to compare size" cool nobody cares what you think you have to do. I'm not playing by your rules.
@@frankl3518 and not even remotely close when you say alot of corners play like that. You obviously are missing important things in watching the tape if you think alot of corners play like that, but your allowed to have braindead takes just like everyone else is I won't stop you!
I don't see it with Addison Im gonna go out on a limb and say I think he has higher bust potential than people think
Idk about bust but I’m not that high either I think there’s a good chance he ends up just being decent
@@TT-se6qo right and again not saying he is a bust just saying I think the chances he does are higher than what people are thinking.
I'm starting to see more and more people have that opinion
@@JaredTG. Really? I haven't heard it anywhere?
The wisdom of the crowds was wrong on Tariq Woolen and I had him as a second rounder. Not enough people are ever gonna watch enough UTSA tape to make an informed opinion. Meanwhile, I was depressed and wanted my 49ers to get better and had ample time to watch tape due to a loss of a job last year. Tariq could run backwards faster than his competition could run forward at the group of 5 level and the ball skills of a wr4 in the nfl. When you combine elite athleticism almost superhuman with great ball skills that is why I had him so high as a corner.
Wow dante hall?? What is that Sam guy looking at.
I'm fine with guys rising because of the combine, even tho that's risky. I don't love when guys rise that you were lower on them most for seemingly no reason. That feels like group think to me. Way too much of that in the draft media space. Trust your eyes. Fans of yours like you because they see the game similarly. Most fans evaluate on highlights. They can't be trusted.
Will Levis = Carson Wentz
Priest Holmes
Let's all remember Renner has Will Levis at #3 on his big board when Hendon Hooker will get drafted before him lmao
Lmao and that team is dumb
Renner is a terrible draft analyst
And then we'll remember who took Hendon Hooker over Will Levis
Speaking in guarantees with the draft is basically a stamp that you have no idea how the NFL draft works.
@Albert A I guarantee will Anderson will be drafted higher than Mazi Smith
Sam is the only one who has improved at his job over the past 3 years. Renner is just a personality and is not a true evaluater of talent. He gives very surface level insight and then relies on the PFF Grades & other ppls mock drafts to put out his content
Renner has great knowledge about the players in the draft and how they can help different teams in the nfl
@Estuardo Dacaret last year he had Malik Willis & Kyle Hamilton to the lions #2 overall at one point lmao