SEA VAMPIRE - Was The First Jet To Land On A Carrier A Missed Opportunity?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- The De Havilland Sea Vampire was the first aircraft to land on an aircraft carrier on jet power alone. It was also based on one of the most successful first generation jet fighters. And yet the Fleet Air Arm decided to proceed with the unimpressive Supermarine Attacker rather than commit to the Vampire as a carrier fighter. This video briefly explores that possibility and briefly tells the story of that first landing.
Quick note on this one. Once again, I have struggled to find copyright-free footage to make a video on a UK aircraft. There is therefore more flat photo content in this one than I would like, but hopefully it is relevant and the script is sufficiently informative/ entertaining!
Sources:
There are no books exclusively on the Sea Vampire, so I drew on chapters from:
De Havilland Vampire by W.A Harrison
De Havilland Vampire F1-T55 In RAF, FAA, RAAF, RNZAF, SAAF, RCAF & Foreign Service by Richard Ward & Roger Levy
De Havilland Vampire, Venom and Sea Vixen by Philip Birtles
"...the Labor government at the time thought they could achieve friendly relations with the USSR..."
Laughs in MiG-15 engine noises.
Especially since they had supplied the jet engine for the Russians to reverse engineer and put it in the MiG15!
@@mikehipperson and that's the joke.
It didn't take long for them to change their mind. As far as the Nene engines went, they considered that by the time the Sovs reverse engineered them to any worthwhile end, both British and US jet aircraft would be far outstripping them. That was one assumption too far. Lessons learned, and they launched into the crash programme that would result in our independent nuclear deterrent, despite no assistance from the US because of the McMahon Act. .
@@ianmcsherry5254 Thanks, I didn't know that.
Haha
Frederick Forsyth wrote a beautiful story called “The Shepherd” about a Vampire losing electronics at night and being “shepherded” to a closed RAF airbase by a ghostly Mosquito. Good story.
Sure. Why not? The Mosquito and the Vampire ARE related 😅.
@@paulwoodman5131 nice. 👍
I read that when I was growing up, great story.
There's a video of the story on FB somewhere.
"Charlie Delta...."
Those clips of the rubber deck tests are mind bending, to say the least. I always thought the Vampire and Venom were interesting contrasts; cute, rather attractive as single seaters--anything but as twin seat aircraft...
Will you be going into the development trail that led to the Sea Vixen? THAT was certainly anachronistic, in the 1960s!
Haven't seen any wet rubber deck tests. It WAS a fascinating idea 💡.
Good summary, although I do think you give too much credence to Winkle Brown's story telling. Although a brilliant test pilot and although his input was well respected, the deck landing trials were organised by the Admiralty and MAP and arranged through the normal RAE trials process. That included having aircraft selected and modified. Although he himself may have thought so, as a lieutenant he did not actually run the trials programme. Also, whatever he may have told the captain, I cannot believe an aviator of his standing would have put himself in a position where he did not have the fuel to recover to shore. At the time, baling out from a Vampire was thought to involve a high risk of death by hitting the rear stabiliser. No ejector seats back then!
The larger flaps and airbrakes were certainly there to improve low-speed aerodynamic control. However, the other reason is that due to that poor response of a jet at low power during approach, the added drag allows you to apply higher power against that drag. This means the turbo is well spooled up and in a much more responsive zone when you need that fine control. The same applies during AAR, when you will often see the receiver with its airbrake out as it approaches the basket.
Oh and for future reference, 'pitot' tube is pronounced 'pee-toe'.
Especially enjoyed the clips of U/C up landings on the bouncy deck, and very glad that was not taken forward!
The Vampire has always intrigued me. It's design screams to me just how much engineers were still "figuring it out". Seeing a twin boom layout on a jet is like some sort of mashup of 1930s and 1950s aeronautical design.
In some ways it reminds me of the Fireball. Not that they look similar, because they're obviously very different looking aircraft. But both seem like a plane with a foot in two different worlds; or perhaps a wing in two different worlds is more appropriate.
These videos on early jet aircraft have been extremely entertaining and informative. Another home run!
De Havilland Sea Vixen, a Vampire all grown up?
@@enscroggs Oooooo, I didn't think of that but now that you've brought it up it seems obvious! Good call!
@@enscroggs basically :) wasn’t the vampire/venom a wooden fuselage pod too? Old school 🏫 hehe 🙃
The twin boom made sense in order to keep the tail pipe short and avoid losses in thrust. The Sea Hawk did the same by having the exhausts at the side.
The twin boom arrangement also has the advantage of putting the elevator in/near the jet exhaust stream, which gives it more control authority at low airspeed (by using the faster moving jet exhaust); handy in the case of short takeoff/landing, as from a short strip (including those atop a ship at sea).
An extraordinary photo at 0.40. When was it taken and where? The treasure trove of aircraft I can see include a two seat Dornier 'Pfiel', Supermarine Spiteful, Martin-Baker MB5, Me410, 110 and many more. Sad to think they must all have gone to the scrapyard.
No kidding! I saw your comment and immediately took a look and was blown away!
It is a great mix of RAF aircraft and "War Booty". Seeing those Luftwaffe planes in British markings was interesting.
Saw the Phiel right off , war Booty indeed. 😊
In addition I can see a Bristol Brigand, Blackburn Firebrand, Fairy Firefly, an early Gloster Meteor and a Hawker Tempest (right most row). In the middle row I can make out (in addition to the Pfiel) an IR90 (Romanian), Arado 234 and Me262. To the left, a piloted V1, a Junkers Ju52 and several large transports plus maybe a Mitsubishi 'Betty'. Quite a haul!
Ju290? Me 210 or 410?
Good to see a fellow aviation enthusiast with a quick eye for detail - I totally missed this one until you spotted it!
It's interesting that pre-WW2 the RN blamed RAF control over its procurement for the obsolete FAA aircraft in the early war.
Yet here we see that post-war, when the RN managed its own affairs, it still failed to implement the latest designs.
Brown would be a fascinating topic for his own video, what a crazy life story that man has lived!
Good idea! I have been considering doing something on test pilots of the 40s and early 50s. There were many exceptional characters.
Yes please. I'm sure there are also many unsung heros as well to find.
There was a documentary about him made a few years back, I’m pretty sure someone has posted it on RUclips.
As I recall, there was a major documentary made about him, by the BBC, I think. It might be on RUclips. His biography, which is essential reading, is called "Wings on my sleeve".
I love the Vampire and its whistling Goblin Engine. We still operate our one single remaining Vampire in the SAAF Museum. It is always a delight and a highlight to see the silver and orange Vampire grace the skies over FASK and FAWK.
Vampire was the star of the show when I was a boy, back in the 70s. Glad to hear people can still get to see it in it's element!
The landings without undercarriage from 10:36 on were trials with a rubberised flight deck replacing the landing gear that were done in 1949 on HMS Warrior. And who else but Eric Brown would be in the plane? ;)
It was said that the RAF definition of a good landing was one in which the pilot could walk away and an excellent landing was when the aeroplane could be used a second time.
Very interesting. The Vampire was a good aircraft but with the rapid development of jets at the end of the war it was quickly outclassed. At least it lived on in the Sea Venom.
Will you be doing a video on the Hawker Sea Hawk? I think it's such a pretty plane and like a baby Hawker Hunter.
Given the RN's limited budget developing their own sea based aircraft was a mistake. They should have bought the rights to build US naval aircraft saving the large development costs that would be spread over too few aircraft. It took until the 1960s for the RN to figure this out with the Phantom. The FAA would have done much better in the late 1950s and into the 1960s with the A4D, F4D OR F3H, and F8U.
I some what agree. But the British industry had the potential it just had stupid outdated requirements and way more limited funding as opposed to the US. So the FAA aircraft were mostly outdated within a few short years. Such as the Super-marine Scimitar, Sea vixen and Buccaneer which all could’ve been decent in 1955 but none were comparable to the F4 Phantom that entered service like 1 year after or the same year as their actual introductions.
However, the technology trade with the US was always just one sided as hell. The US only had decent jet engines due to Britain. With them in return with holding British Common wealth research to the Manhattan project.
Same with the Carrier innovations. The Royal Navy didn’t have unlimited money to launch at problems. They had to make do with their current carriers and thus use their brains to develop Steam Catapults, Angled flight decks and Mirror landing systems. All of which they happily informed the USN about for free.
The Cavity Magnetron, Jet engines, Steam catapults, Angled flight decks and mirror landing systems… the back bone of modern carrier aviation.
All that and a rich history of aircraft development and technology breakthroughs just to give it up to the US for free, then lose all your domestic sales to them. Embarrassing really.
The RN was not totally opposed to jets but understood that with the poor acceleration profiles of early jet engines and the increased fuel usage by jets(a problem that bedevilled the USN and it's far larger carriers)leading to reduced sortie numbers piston engined aircraft would have to continue to be used though the RN did commission and test a turbo prop version of the Meteor which was a success
Britain with Money issue's 😅😅 little as changed then in that respect .
I can see why it doesn’t get operational in Fleet Air Arm service, Still, It would be really cool for Vampire to have the distinction of “The first type of fighter jet to operate both on land and sea”, An achievement that would later be accomplished by Sabre (F-86 and FJ-2, but they technically have different name), or F-4 Phantom II
Only if you mean operated by both Navy and air force yes but the FH was operated by the USMC from land bases.
@@johnshepherd9676
Ah, yes, I initially thought about air force and navy, but FH Phantom should be an honorable mention as well
The Vampire did operate from both land and sea, although the Sea Vampires were only used for training and pilot familiarisation. The FH-1 Phantom was not built in much greater numbers (60) and was also primarily used for training.
I wonder how the hunter would have done
I enjoy a lot your videos and soft delivery, Thank you for your effort!
Well we were essentially in the same situation in Korea. Only had the F9 Panther which wasn't a match for the Mig15. At least the Air Force came through with the F86.
the (symbolic) picture at 5:58 of a channel storm shows the disarmed WW1 battleship HMS Centurion (used for a variety of funny purposes in WW2) scuttled at the "mullberry" harbor in Normandy
The balls on these test pilots must have been huge Great story.
Hello Sir
I believe this is my first comment. Im Scott, a rebellious colonial in the USA.
Winkle, as his friends and colleagues referred to him, happens to be my favorite Genius, who's only equals of His Time sadly have fallen in battle or research flights coming into the age of turbofan propulsion. I've often ponder how excellent 👌 it would be to slowly and quietly walk the floors of this fine specimen of a Genius's House 🏡 and soke in all the certificates of achievements and awards and such like. I could best describe the Man as a Genius with Stones.
A magnificent life the man enjoyed.
Smashingly so...
😊😊😊
Tah
The flexible deck landing test videos are quite interesting - must have been a bit of a rough event for the pilot/craft unless approach and seas were perfect.
You earn far more subscribers.
it's not paitot tube - it's pitot 😅😊
The Seafire was an very marginal carrier aircraft, with extremely high operational loss rates. The narrow and lightly-built undercarriage was both unforgiving and liable to collapse.
It's worth pointing out that the Sea Vampire's first isn't uncontested since an FR-1 Fireball landed on USS _Wake Island_ a month earlier after experiencing engine failure in its radial engine.
Contested because the Fireball was on final approach when the radial failed and the pilot finished the landing using the jet.
But the Fireball was a hybrid, piston engine and jet engine, not like the Vampire which was a pure jet engined type.
@jonathanhudak2059 Does it matter that it carried an internal combustion engine if it didn't work and wasn't being used? I'd argue not.
The only real argument is where the 'landing' begins, since, again, the radial didn't fail until after the Fireball was on final approach.
@@boobah5643 OK.. first *intentional* landing of a solely jet powered aircraft on a carrier. Happy accidents aside.
@@boobah5643 "Does it matter that it carried an internal combustion engine if it didn't work and wasn't being used?"
Of course it matters.
@boobah5643 apples to apples not apples to oranges professor
@ 04:00. L ZED 551! ZEEEEE makes you sound like a simpleton. Otherwise, I love your channel.
I think the problem was having to change the decks on carrier's for jet aircraft, plus they'd have to retrain the maintaince staff
This one also was transitiona, & had the centrifugal compressor which had even more lag than the preferred axial flow. ❤ This Channel , NAPFATG 😊
Why did you pronounce 'z' as 'zee' instead of 'zed'? You aren't American.
Great story on the type! Vampires to me in general are just cool jet aircraft. Hope we get to see a vid on the Sea Venom and Supermarine Attacker! Interesting how the Vampire would've been so outclassed by the MiG-15 in a dogfight too, never thought of that!
One could of seen these on the Australian carrier HMAS Sydney in the Korean war. It would have been a little bit harder to hit during faster ground attack profiles and egress than the Sea Fury.
😳The Slip 'n' Slide landing deck still blows my mind.
Another excellent video from the best aviation channel on RUclips-thank you.
Was it guided in by a Mosquito? See who gets that reference.
Good little jets these- Esp the radar equipped Sea Venom :)
Your video at 0:57, the aircraft at centre, is it the very fast German fighter?
Great video...👍
The British government opposed devoloping new airplanes directly after the war, because they expected that there would not be a major conflict within ten years. So maybe the development of a Sea Vampire was off limits. And Great Britain was virtually bankrupt after the war, so very little money to spend. This in contrast to the Americans which came out of the war being ridiculously rich. But do correct me if I am wrong ;).
The British government might have been bankrupt but they still managed to find the money to nationalise the commanding heights of the economy.
Brown had also flown the gloucester e28
Awesome video as always. Cheers
No guts, no Air Medal..
So why did they choose the attacker?
0:39
Your image around (0:46) is post war; the Ar 335 (Pfeil) was not displayed until post war.
Pee-Toe tube.
Very interesting video. Thank you. Eric Brown was and still is one of my boyhood heroes i don't think he was ever given the credit he deserved from this country. If you read his books you will realise hed did the lot. Sadly missed.
Wow I’ve never been first before. Anyway, thanks for another great video!
Second
Second is first loser
@@gingernutpreacher feel better now ? Negative much
@@xgford94 no not until Ukrainian wins