AM buiding 4s5p x few packs from 18650.If i connect it to SBNS40 (8 terminals will each record 4 x 3.7V to 4 x 4.2V when fully charged) i dont understand why many recording 3.7-4.2 V instead ?m i missing something
I think I'm missing your point a bit, but I'll give a shot at what might be the issue: The vast majority of users are using Electrodacus equipment with LFP chemistry, and have their voltage settings set for that type of cell. There's a setting in the SMBS40 in the menu where you can select different chemistries, which you'd need to do if you're using NMC 18650 cells.
For LiFeP04 cells, on the Batrium display, you may want to consider reducing the "displayed Cell Voltage maximum graph value" a little. Maybe try 3.85V. This brings the heights of the blue cell bars up to a higher proportion of screen height, and shows any differences a bit clearer. I have a WM4, and my particular cells have 3.60V set as max charge Volts.
Keep your fingers on the capacitive buttons do not just touch them for ms and it will work to get out of the monitoring menu. Is not a cellphone there is no interrupt for capacitive touch buttons as it will not be safe. You had the shunt connected in reverse thus the SOC difference. SOC will calibrate to full so will jump to 100% as soon as you have a full charge so 3.55V for highest cell. The current shunt resistance need's to be set correctly for both the battery shunt and the PV shunt in order to have correct current indication. Also I noticed PV1 was at L3 and that means you have probably the EXT IO5 set as type 6 but since you do not have a dual PV array setup you need to set that to type 0 or anything other than type 6. Charging from the inverter/chargers and not allow SBMS0 to terminate the charge will not work as SBMS0 can not protect the battery.
Thanks again so much for your help! I'll check all those items and post an update. This video was just a quick and dirty intro which David Poz asked me to post. I'll try to fix all the issues and do a more in-depth video. So far I'm very impressed with how well this setup works. I do see what you mean about needing to top balance, as the lower cells are almost perfectly balanced against each other and are charged all together up to the set point, whereas the top cells are mismatched and charging is terminated when one node hits the set point, which keeps the stronger cells from being topped up as much as the lower set.
@@NoelBarlau The SBMS0 was not designed for a 48V system so each SBMS0 will see only half of the pack and they do not communicate between then thus likely only the SBMS0 containing the highest cell voltage will calculate the SOC correctly as when the cell gets to 3.55V the charging will be stopped and SOC set at 100% but the other SBMS0 will not know about that so that will never be able to calibrate the SOC at full as it never sees any cell at 3.55V unless there independent charging for each half of the pack.
So the SBMS0 can be used with a shunt trip breaker? To protect the battery ifa cell is low or High, out of balance? Or if the bank is low or high? And read charge level? This is about all I need besides a ballance function, will the SBMS0 work for me?
@@jamest.5001 Dacian is excellent about answering questions on his solar forum, or you might find the answer you're looking for has already been posted. He might not respond here. Just google Electrodacus forum, or go to the main website and the forum link is kind of hidden in the upper left corner.
@@jamest.5001 You can use a trip breaker to protect the battery from over discharge but that will require you to manually enable the Load if that happen. For high cell voltage that will not make sense as SBMS will normally stop the charging multiple times a day and need to re enable. There is a type 5 on the SBMS that is for cases where charger fails to stop based on normal remote ON/OFF or loads fails to stop (extremely unlikely) and so that is based on secondary low and high voltage limits and if it gets there it means something failed then a shunt trip breaker controlled by and EXT IOx set as type 5 will be a secondary level of protection that will probably never need to work but is there as additional safety. Still you will need to shunt trip breakers or one with two separate contacts to disconnect the charge and discharge path separately.
You may want to clarify in future video when comparing the two that the Batrium does have significant other features that the Electrodacus does not. Not sure if it is the Batrium WatchMon4 you were using but that does have active cell balancing and individual cell temperature monitoring as well as WiFi. Active cell balancing is not commonly found on the cheaper BMSs.
One SBMS0 is hooked up to the top 8 nodes, and the second SBMS0 is hooked up to the bottom 8 nodes. They don't communicate with each other, but the settings are the same on both. The difference can come from a mismatch in charging power due to panel imbalance or shading. Again, this is not an approved usage of these units. I'm taking the health of my batteries into my own hands.
@@NoelBarlau my question was NOT related to your setup with the 2 Ectrodacus. my question was a theoretical one. But i think it applies to your setup too. You have the Electrodacus hooked to 8 cells and the Batrium hooked to all the cells (including those 8 cells) so which is doing the balancing (the Electrodacus or the Batrium)? Or both? Any conflicts in the process?
@@thelightworshipper9687 I see. Well so far there haven't been any conflicts. The cells all maintained excellent balance during the test. I unplugged both the Batrium and SBMS0's as I'm not using the system at the moment to avoid parasitic load during idle weeks. This has all been for fun, as we decided to go with a grid-tied system instead of off-grid.
@@thelightworshipper9687 Dacian is extremely responsive on his forum. The link to the forum is on the main web page kind of hidden in the upper left corner.
I believe the SBMS0 is trying to balance the cells. It might look like a lot of dancing around but it's really only hundredths 0.01 and thousandths 0.001 of a volt variation.
Thx for sharing. I commented on JEHU Garcia review on sbms40 and actually shared your link for many wannabes wanting 16s setup but alas I believe JG deleted my comment for some unknown reasons. Sharing is caring.
Hi - wondering if these are the cells you were trying to save in your earlier video? Appears it’s a 2p16s with some 4ps thrown in...? How does the Batrium handle that mix of Ps..? Thanks
Hi Mike, it's essentially a 2p16s setup, but with some of the smaller cells I had to use two of those to equal one of the larger cells so it I suppose would be 3p on the top four nodes. That's why it looks funky. These cells came from the same source as the bad cells, they were previously installed in Wheego cars. The dead ones were left hooked up to a BMS for years without charging, and it eventually drained them completely and killed them. The Batrium doesn't see it as anything unusual, it only sees individual nodes, which from an electrical standpoint is still one single node.
Thanks for the video! Interesting test. I kinda wish Dacian would make a 48V 8s MPPT controller but I understand it doesn't really make sense. With 24V you just use all solar panels in series, everything is neat and tidy and don't need MPPT and falls into place for a very economic setup. Is there anything new for 48V and higher power output and more space/energy efficiency with MPPT besides Batrium?
Dacian is quite insistent that he'll never make 48v equipment, and that's his right. Really he just makes stuff for himself and then sells it to other people to offset his development costs, or so it seems. He makes excellent equipment for 24v systems, and I highly recommend his products. For 48v systems pretty much any MPPT charging solution is fine (I'd look at Victron, personally), and there are balancing units which don't have the level of sophistication of the Batrium system - or the monitoring capability. You'll have to decide what suits your own intended usage scenario.
@@NoelBarlau Thanks, yeah that all makes sense. I'm getting a handle on what I need but I still have to learn a lot more. Ideally I also want to be able to do replacements and simple repairs if fuses or capacitors burn out.
In italy a small company makes a custom made BMS that has tons of features...and it's even cheaper than the Orion or Batrium. Probably it's good looking but works perfectly for automotive as well (my car was the Guinea pig for the testing). On my case it was set up to work in a 48v system with a 16s battery pack. Here are 'some' features: Modular HW & SW structure. Get just what you really need - Stackable up to 1000V - Wide battery chemistries managed - Choose up to three different Active balance strategies: Dissipative, Non Dissipative or Both - Adaptive smart balance algorithm - Up to 5 (10)A on Active Non Dissipative balance - Multiple interfaces - ports & protocols - vs. Battery Chargers and Systems - Main features widely programmable - Specifically devoted for top-end applications in OEM market
@@shinosg-wiz4619 Oh that sounds really interesting. I'm in Europe, what is the company's name? I don't plan this immediately, but my long term dream is to build a solar powered trimaran cruiser. So I'd want 48V, about 7kW solar panels and around 5kW for motor power. Battery would be modest at around 20 kWh LiFePO4.
![Deep Cycle Battery Charging with your Alternator: The 3 Best Options explained [+ Wiring Diagram]](/img/1.gif)
AM buiding 4s5p x few packs from 18650.If i connect it to SBNS40 (8 terminals will each record 4 x 3.7V to 4 x 4.2V when fully charged) i dont understand why many recording 3.7-4.2 V instead ?m i missing something
I think I'm missing your point a bit, but I'll give a shot at what might be the issue: The vast majority of users are using Electrodacus equipment with LFP chemistry, and have their voltage settings set for that type of cell. There's a setting in the SMBS40 in the menu where you can select different chemistries, which you'd need to do if you're using NMC 18650 cells.
For LiFeP04 cells, on the Batrium display, you may want to consider reducing the "displayed Cell Voltage maximum graph value" a little. Maybe try 3.85V. This brings the heights of the blue cell bars up to a higher proportion of screen height, and shows any differences a bit clearer. I have a WM4, and my particular cells have 3.60V set as max charge Volts.
Keep your fingers on the capacitive buttons do not just touch them for ms and it will work to get out of the monitoring menu. Is not a cellphone there is no interrupt for capacitive touch buttons as it will not be safe.
You had the shunt connected in reverse thus the SOC difference. SOC will calibrate to full so will jump to 100% as soon as you have a full charge so 3.55V for highest cell.
The current shunt resistance need's to be set correctly for both the battery shunt and the PV shunt in order to have correct current indication.
Also I noticed PV1 was at L3 and that means you have probably the EXT IO5 set as type 6 but since you do not have a dual PV array setup you need to set that to type 0 or anything other than type 6.
Charging from the inverter/chargers and not allow SBMS0 to terminate the charge will not work as SBMS0 can not protect the battery.
Thanks again so much for your help! I'll check all those items and post an update. This video was just a quick and dirty intro which David Poz asked me to post. I'll try to fix all the issues and do a more in-depth video. So far I'm very impressed with how well this setup works. I do see what you mean about needing to top balance, as the lower cells are almost perfectly balanced against each other and are charged all together up to the set point, whereas the top cells are mismatched and charging is terminated when one node hits the set point, which keeps the stronger cells from being topped up as much as the lower set.
@@NoelBarlau The SBMS0 was not designed for a 48V system so each SBMS0 will see only half of the pack and they do not communicate between then thus likely only the SBMS0 containing the highest cell voltage will calculate the SOC correctly as when the cell gets to 3.55V the charging will be stopped and SOC set at 100% but the other SBMS0 will not know about that so that will never be able to calibrate the SOC at full as it never sees any cell at 3.55V unless there independent charging for each half of the pack.
So the SBMS0 can be used with a shunt trip breaker? To protect the battery ifa cell is low or High, out of balance? Or if the bank is low or high? And read charge level? This is about all I need besides a ballance function, will the SBMS0 work for me?
@@jamest.5001 Dacian is excellent about answering questions on his solar forum, or you might find the answer you're looking for has already been posted. He might not respond here. Just google Electrodacus forum, or go to the main website and the forum link is kind of hidden in the upper left corner.
@@jamest.5001 You can use a trip breaker to protect the battery from over discharge but that will require you to manually enable the Load if that happen. For high cell voltage that will not make sense as SBMS will normally stop the charging multiple times a day and need to re enable.
There is a type 5 on the SBMS that is for cases where charger fails to stop based on normal remote ON/OFF or loads fails to stop (extremely unlikely) and so that is based on secondary low and high voltage limits and if it gets there it means something failed then a shunt trip breaker controlled by and EXT IOx set as type 5 will be a secondary level of protection that will probably never need to work but is there as additional safety. Still you will need to shunt trip breakers or one with two separate contacts to disconnect the charge and discharge path separately.
You may want to clarify in future video when comparing the two that the Batrium does have significant other features that the Electrodacus does not. Not sure if it is the Batrium WatchMon4 you were using but that does have active cell balancing and individual cell temperature monitoring as well as WiFi. Active cell balancing is not commonly found on the cheaper BMSs.
If you install 2 BMS to the same set of batteries, which BMS is doing the cell balancing? Both of them? Won't they conflict with each other?
One SBMS0 is hooked up to the top 8 nodes, and the second SBMS0 is hooked up to the bottom 8 nodes. They don't communicate with each other, but the settings are the same on both. The difference can come from a mismatch in charging power due to panel imbalance or shading. Again, this is not an approved usage of these units. I'm taking the health of my batteries into my own hands.
@@NoelBarlau my question was NOT related to your setup with the 2 Ectrodacus. my question was a theoretical one. But i think it applies to your setup too. You have the Electrodacus hooked to 8 cells and the Batrium hooked to all the cells (including those 8 cells) so which is doing the balancing (the Electrodacus or the Batrium)? Or both? Any conflicts in the process?
@@thelightworshipper9687 I see. Well so far there haven't been any conflicts. The cells all maintained excellent balance during the test. I unplugged both the Batrium and SBMS0's as I'm not using the system at the moment to avoid parasitic load during idle weeks. This has all been for fun, as we decided to go with a grid-tied system instead of off-grid.
@@NoelBarlau Thanks Noel, i have been learning and reading about the SBMS0 to see what it can do (or not do). I will have more questions to Dacian.
@@thelightworshipper9687 Dacian is extremely responsive on his forum. The link to the forum is on the main web page kind of hidden in the upper left corner.
Why at min 15:00 the electrodacus on the left have the voltages per cell levels vary so much periodically?
I believe the SBMS0 is trying to balance the cells. It might look like a lot of dancing around but it's really only hundredths 0.01 and thousandths 0.001 of a volt variation.
@@NoelBarlau I see. it is the 3 sec ON 3 sec OFF Balancing setting in the sbms0....
Thx for sharing. I commented on JEHU Garcia review on sbms40 and actually shared your link for many wannabes wanting 16s setup but alas I believe JG deleted my comment for some unknown reasons. Sharing is caring.
You're welcome. I love trying things not advocated by the manufacturer. A certain small percentage of people enjoy seeing the results.
Hi - wondering if these are the cells you were trying to save in your earlier video? Appears it’s a 2p16s with some 4ps thrown in...? How does the Batrium handle that mix of Ps..? Thanks
Hi Mike, it's essentially a 2p16s setup, but with some of the smaller cells I had to use two of those to equal one of the larger cells so it I suppose would be 3p on the top four nodes. That's why it looks funky. These cells came from the same source as the bad cells, they were previously installed in Wheego cars. The dead ones were left hooked up to a BMS for years without charging, and it eventually drained them completely and killed them. The Batrium doesn't see it as anything unusual, it only sees individual nodes, which from an electrical standpoint is still one single node.
Which is better ?
That's a loaded question. Better at what?
@@NoelBarlau better overall? Better bms not matter the price which is better
@@Leonardo-mw7tnBatrium, hands down. But it's kind of missing the point to simplify it to one metric.
Ok but batrium still better
Thanks for the video! Interesting test.
I kinda wish Dacian would make a 48V 8s MPPT controller but I understand it doesn't really make sense. With 24V you just use all solar panels in series, everything is neat and tidy and don't need MPPT and falls into place for a very economic setup.
Is there anything new for 48V and higher power output and more space/energy efficiency with MPPT besides Batrium?
Dacian is quite insistent that he'll never make 48v equipment, and that's his right. Really he just makes stuff for himself and then sells it to other people to offset his development costs, or so it seems. He makes excellent equipment for 24v systems, and I highly recommend his products. For 48v systems pretty much any MPPT charging solution is fine (I'd look at Victron, personally), and there are balancing units which don't have the level of sophistication of the Batrium system - or the monitoring capability. You'll have to decide what suits your own intended usage scenario.
@@NoelBarlau Thanks, yeah that all makes sense. I'm getting a handle on what I need but I still have to learn a lot more.
Ideally I also want to be able to do replacements and simple repairs if fuses or capacitors burn out.
In italy a small company makes a custom made BMS that has tons of features...and it's even cheaper than the Orion or Batrium. Probably it's good looking but works perfectly for automotive as well (my car was the Guinea pig for the testing). On my case it was set up to work in a 48v system with a 16s battery pack.
Here are 'some' features:
Modular HW & SW structure. Get just what you really need
- Stackable up to 1000V
- Wide battery chemistries managed
- Choose up to three different Active balance strategies:
Dissipative, Non Dissipative or Both
- Adaptive smart balance algorithm
- Up to 5 (10)A on Active Non Dissipative balance
- Multiple interfaces - ports & protocols - vs. Battery Chargers
and Systems
- Main features widely programmable
- Specifically devoted for top-end applications in OEM market
@@shinosg-wiz4619 Oh that sounds really interesting. I'm in Europe, what is the company's name?
I don't plan this immediately, but my long term dream is to build a solar powered trimaran cruiser. So I'd want 48V, about 7kW solar panels and around 5kW for motor power. Battery would be modest at around 20 kWh LiFePO4.
@@shinosg-wiz4619 do you have a link for the bms
Batrium is overpriced.