Positive Discrimination | Yes, Minister | BBC
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- Опубликовано: 15 июн 2010
- The permanent secretaries are discussing the possibilities of "positive" discrimination of women in the workplace.
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“Speaking as an ardent feminist myself...” he didn’t finish and I already laughed so hard 😂
You and the whole audience in the studio
"best man for the job regardless of sex"
Man is also used in the sense of human, person.. etc.
+Y.T. An archaic usage, aptly satirised in this very clip.
But trans and nonbinary men should be in Ministerial positions in our governments, despite the fact that this was probably not at all intended in the satire.
=8)-DX
Y. T. Did you miss the joke?
@@IvanTre (Facepalm)
Can a trans man play in the Wimbledon womens tennis...or vice versa?
They left out the best line at the end, where one of the secretaries declares the group "a real cross-section of the nation"
I wish the BBC still made genuinely witty comedy sketches like this.
That would require them to have a sense of humor and not be all aboard the identity politics train.
This particular sketch would be roasted in every forum, regardless of the intention.
@@22espec This is why we can't have nice things anymore...we only have ourselves to blame lol.
They can't do this sort of humor now unless they deliberately make you feel as if the message is being rammed down your throat with a PC jack-boot
The TV series parodied the government of the time and unfortunately most politicians (especially those in leadership) have not studied history so that the TV series is still quite an accurate parody (eg when the arguments over replacing Trident by a newer missile were given (by the [real] government), they almost exactly matched the arguments over replacing Polaris by Trident as parodied by the series).
One of the main rules of the British civil service, if you 100% disagree personally of a government policy you must always agree with the "principle" of the policy/idea and then come up with arguments of why it is "impracticable" for it to be implemented. It is called "killing with kindness" the policy. Always works.
I thought the civil service was supposed to be impartial?
Are you saying that possibly good policies were
"Buried" in effect by the civil service because they didn't agree with them?
@@stuartd9741 Of course Stuart, that is how things work in the civil service. Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister maybe a sitcom, but there is reality in their scripts. I have worked in the civil service, and I know how some of it works. All words, and no action. I remember one idea of introducing a 5% reduction in spending in our department. The permanent secretary agreed "in principle", but the cut never happened. Why? Because if we managed to reduce our budget by 5%, what then would stop other departments doing it, and also why stop at 5%, why not 10, 15, 25 etc? The civil service is impartial in most ways, but when it means looking after their own, they will always protect their institution first.
@@johnking5174 I see.
Totally understand protecting the institution.
I know its a thorny subject.
What do you think the civil service views is of the " B " word?
Of course they'll have to implement any changes.
Oh, B is not Boris. The other B.
@@stuartd9741 I have learnt Stuart that it does not matter one bit who is in the office of Prime Minister. The civil service continues on. They detest the Brexit mess of course, but you can bet your last penny the civil service has planned for a no deal Brexit. With regards to Boris as Prime Minister, they will treat him with the same dignity as they treat other Prime Ministers, but underneath they will regard him as a moron, however a dangerous moron, who is ten times more clever and manipulative than people give him credit for. He may have the wind swept hair look and bumbling nature, but unlike a Mr Trump, there is a deep intelligence hidden underneath, which the civil service know never to ignore.
@@johnking5174
Thank you for the replies.
It's nice to get genuine insight from people "in the know".
I don't trust PM Johnson or Mr Farage for that matter - Think they are opportunists.
I guess that's a topic for another day.
Good day to you.
"We must, in my view, always have the right to promote the best man for the job, regardless of sex"
And then came Boris Johnson...
@@HesteBremse Well if your goal is to get a large majority and make the Labour party impotent then seemingly Boris was the man for the job...
So many gems in Yes, Minister, especially if you know the uniform of the old establishment that once ruled Britain.
Sir Arnold, and Sir Humphrey both wearing their Balliol College, Oxford ties; once the express elevator to high government.
Then there’s the civil servant chief of the Home Office: Trinity, Cambridge. DSS, St John’s, Cambridge, as is the chap to Appleby’s left. Defence, Magdalen, Oxford. And the chief secretary to the Foreign Office, too, with his aristocratic family pinky ring, and his own Brigade of Guards tie!
You know your ties
As a demned colonial, I got most of it, but I didn’t know about the ties. Thanks, it adds to the whole thing,
@@wfcoaker1398 what does "demned" mean? Or is it a typo?
milind006 Think in terms of the very pear shaped tones of British UP pronunciation. Lol. “Bai George, these demned colewnials ah sew veray annoying, eh wot?”
Wf Coaker Ahh! As I suspected! :)
Watching these two shows as a teenager when they were first aired I thought they were masterful - now having spent the last 11yrs working for the Civil Service they get better every time I watch again
They accurate?
@@dhruva.3206 In terms of the 'civil service machine' yes, it grinds forward and gets things done in its way. My dept is probably less formal in terms of dress (although you do get people coming to work in 3-piece suits sometimes) and it's a lot more equal in terms of mean and women in senior positions. Some of the govt buildings in London are really nice and you do come across the oak panelled offices and leather-topped desks occasionally.
"the best man regardless of sex" LOL!
Sad thing is its true. Just the other day a member of the very old generation told me that feminism basically made all women men. So I think men could be the best way to describe them
"Man" can be a nongendered term. It's moderately common in military circles to shorthand male and female uniformed personnel as "men" in some situations. And despite the fact that females are well represented in the workforce we still use the somewhat obsolete term "manpower" to describe the total workforce from time to time.
hah. obsolete... hah.
True Story.
In the Mid 1990's I had the severe mis-fortune to work in the ultra-feminised Social Services Dept in Southwark. Blatant anti-White Male bias was prevalent and PC was in full bloom and one day I reminded ny Femake Boss I was off and xxxxx was " manning" the office. Now if she had said " staffing" the office to correct me I would fully have understood but she said " NO ! PERSONNED THE OFFICE ". to make it funnier I returned to my female colleagues and informed them of that little exchange and they all looked at me as if to say " Whar's YOUR problem with thar". I, then, knew the lunatics were running the asylim and I quit and started the first of my ( now ) 2 Medium-Sized Businesses.
Without PC I would still be plodding along there....:)
Ironic. Female prison staff in the US have been suing the state, because they have been harassed by prisoners while on the job. What the hell did they think it was, a primary school job ?
So interesting to see the tie choices in this scene--Guards Division, Balliol and Magdalen Colleges, Oxford!
The Good old days
The beauty of this show is in its details
Well spotted...
I didn't realise that. Nice in joke
2:17 And speaking as an ardent feminist myself...
I do hope you are trying to be ironic here, feminazis are some of the worst people on the planet. Tying oneself to that group is akin to saying "As a Fascist" or "As a homicidal death cultist of islam"...
@@TheWarforged Maybe if you don't know what feminism is lol. Though if you think standing up for others is akin to fascism there's something whack with your morals.
@@TheWarforged Also, did you even watch the video? He's quoting the dude in the video. Classic antifeminists, not even checking sources.
Sploof Mcsterra spot on cow
@@sploofmcsterra4786 seems like he has it exactly, feminism is a supremacist ideology mascarading as a campaign for equality.
There times last century half the population enslaved and slaughtered en mass. That same half kept out of the lifeboats of sinking liners. Same half gets longer sentences for equal crimes whilst also being more likely to be murdered. Also death penalty is even more gender biased than racial.
Feminist take -thats all a privilege and you need to shut up. Also women should have equal power.
Society- fine. How about equal obligations.
Feminist-mysoginist!
Still the half of America that oppressively is five times less likely to be murdered and has full citizens rights with no obligations might be about to get a good male privileging lol. Given it's been recommended that draft registration be extended to women. They'll be going men in having no right to vote or hold a government position unless they hand over their bodies to the state. Feminists are already outraged.
And if feminists cared about equality they might have something to say about the Finnish female pm and defence secretary who preside over a gender based slave labour armed forces from which they are exempt from due to their gender privilege.
But nope, instead they applaud these rank hypocrites when they lecture the world about gender equality.
Absurd and telling about feminism which hasn't changed since the vile Pankhurst demand gender slavery in 1916 so that she could gain rights that the vast majority of men being privileged out of existence at the Somme would never themselves have.
Wasn't Margaret Thatcher the Prime Minister when this aired? :P
GodfatherXXI Yeah, I heard it was her favourite show as well.
+minimaster197 Definitely ..... she used to quote it in-house ..... she never missed a programme. Once famously stated on an interview that she never missed an episode ... and that "its uncomfortably close to the truth" ...... that one got some publicity rofl
+David Lawson Which is strange to me because they make women almost second class citizens when the big cheese of the UK was a woman.
+GodfatherXXI Part of it was her fault, though. She did not appoint a single woman to head a government department in 11 years -- the only female cabinet minister she had at all was her floor leader in the House of Lords for a couple of years (the Leader of the House of Lords always holds cabinet office, despite also being a legislator). John Major, who succeeded Thatcher as prime minister, promoted two women to cabinet office within his first 18 months.
+Brian Johnson That's part of the British approach to satire, poking fun at the establishment. Airing this programme while there is a female prime minister highlights the absurdity of what they're discussing, giving it an extra meta-level bit of humour.
"Defence is clearly a man's world, just like industry, all those trade union leaders"
Can't help but laugh at that.
How could they keep a straight face 🤣
"M would have to become F."
Heh...Smashing 007 reference here!
and a few years later M did become a woman lol
FUN FACT- the guy talking at the beginning of the video played Saruman in the BBC Radio version of The Lord of the Rings
Notice how the audience cracks up as soon as Sir Humphrey claims to be "an ardent feminist"? It's like "insert your own punchline here."
I notice their ties are all oxbridge college ties. . .even notice my alma.
Thanks for pointing out that detail, which is probably lost on a lot of non UK residents. It explains why some of the ties are the same!
2:20 that laugh was distinctive.
Patrick Ellis what flag is that
@@shrekdank3473 looks like the communist party of great britain
Thomas Lockyer looks fucking gay
@@shrekdank3473 *_that map looks disgusting_*
The Mr. Man the only thing disgusting about it is that its not 100% red
Not to mention this is a committee within HER Majesty's Government :D
Ha, this extends far beyond government, too. "We're not sexist or racist, it's just that the generals / trade union leaders / movie-going audiences / clients are, so we can't possibly cast or hire those people for those roles." Never seems to cross the good ol' boys minds to try it out, they might prove themselves wrong and lose their best excuse to wash their hands of the whole thing.
We need shows like this again.
I don't think there has ever been another show like this.
@@anorrisisb Arguably, "The Thick of It" is the spiritual successor to this show.
The depressing thing is now we have (some) women in positions of power and nothings changed. Turns out being a man or a woman has no impact on how inept or incompetant you are at running a country... or a bank.
After 8 years working in the Public sector, 15 in top 10 solicitors offices and 6 in an FTSE 100 financial company, as well as over 7 years working in IT and training. I have known good and bad leaders and managers. In my experience the bad are more common than the good and the only just coping more common than any others.
The following common denominators of all the truly bad managers was always the same. Their confidence and speech to thinking ratio far exceeded their competence and they were resentful of the success of others. Added to the above they were either creative liars or passive aggressive bullies, sometimes both. Amongst the worst of these were women as well as men.
This is not bitterness speaking I am an analytical thinker and I am happy to have moved into specialism and not management. Interestingly, I recall the female Managing Director at one of those companies telling me that it was only in a crisis you discovered who your best people were and that much to her chagrin they were never the people you expected and very rarely the people at the top.
If anything positive discrimination has added to the poor management problem by putting people into positions they are just barely able to function in.
Because putting women in charge is not about getting a better or worse run country or business. Its about women being over half the population, but having under 50% of the power or careers. Claiming an evaluative mind, doesn't get rid of your bias because there is no one in the world who is not influenced by their childhoods, their environment or opinions. People are wide-ranging and diverse so of course there isn't one monolithic benefit and we shouldn't expect there to be, because people are different from person to person.
You are right about positive discrimination putting people in charge who are barely capable, because it's been happening for millenia, men have put men in charge regardless if that is an 8 month old prince with an older and capable sister, or the employment of people given good personal references because 'he's a good bloke.' Ignoring the fact there are better qualified women you don't know. It doesn't matter what personal experience have, no one is inherently superior from birth, and to expect that is unfair and displays a willingness to justify discrimination based on body parts.
@@JukeboxTheGhoul Found the raging feminist 😂
Why would you expect women to magically be better at everything and morally superior?
The funny bit is at the end the woman in question didn't even want the job. She had better prospects elsewhere. They've been arguing for the benefit of someone who didn't want this thing in the first place.
Very watchable and immensely funny.
Sophisticated!
So up to the date!
"M would have to become F"
Well, that didn't age well!
As in transgender?
@@jimmyfong2202 NO! M is the leader of MI6 in Bond movies... That's what the show above was alluding to, since M was perhaps a male character in earlier iterations (M for male, F for female). In recent times, the role has been brilliantly portrayed by the actress Judy Dench.
@@cricketknowall Aaaaa, right...
@@cricketknowall wait bond movies are still made?
@M Ralte - A sentiment undoubtedly shared by the Civil Service members depicted here.
Shame they cut the final joke, where Humphrey says that he can't think of a more diverse group than the permanent secretaries, one of the others bellows "REAL CROSS-SECTION OF THE NATION!", and they all nod perfectly in time with one another.
Couldn’t agree more.
So true.
This brings me to tears 😅😂😂😂😂🤦🏽♂️
Sir Humphrey: M would have to become F!
Judy Dench:
Magnificent. This was LIGHT years ahead of its time, truly monumental.
light years measure distance, not time🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
@@conorellisfitness Both, but I'm not going to explain quantum physics to you ;)
I like the fact that they were able to make political jokes without being preachy. Comedy these days is pathetic like that... Usually just political whining wrapped in a thin and brittle veneer of humour.
“Most jobs in the Civil Service only need 2 “O” levels”. Eleanor Bron…somewhere else in these gems.
Yes, the beautiful Eleanor Bron.
It's amazing to see the level of seriousness a bunch of guys from the same generation, the same social class, and the same education give a discussion about changes in workplace...
None at all.
Yes, that is one of the main points of this satirical comedy.
of course, it's still like this, for different groups of people but meetings were ever thus "quite agree, somebody must do it, somebody else not me of course"
"M would have to become F"
......
........Right after this Judy Dench got James Bond gig
"Yes, minister" aired 1982-1984. Judi Dench got the M role in 1995 based on the actual head of MI5 who was a woman at the time. I wouldn't call it "Right after this".
@@noeldown1952 Well, it was right after that, in a geological time scale.
On the matter of female diplomats, they DO tend to prefer not to be sent to third world countries and Islamtic nations, which has caused considerable headache for administrators as young male diplomats now complain that only they get to be sent off to poor & developing countries. Hence, the administrators has introduced the merit system which gives diplomats who served in developing countries bonus points towards their promotion calculation. Female diplomats now claim that they are disadvantaged in promotion and accused administrators of sexism. Therefore, the administrators introduced the quota system which ensures a certain percentage of female diplomats get promoted regardless their merits and services to the country.
Ah fantastic, so this is how we ruin our foreign relations. Because women get the cunt privilege.
that's so annoying and infuriating and stupid
So funny these guys lol
We have now had a female M both in James Bond and in reality.
In "Yes, Prime Minister," Hacker, P.M. will have a powerful female advisor, who Sir Humphrey pointedly calls, "Dear Lady."
Or the Wainright female🤣
I think there is a couple more subtle points this brings up as well, somewhat accidentally.
These discussions always center around the well paid, cushy top jobs. People want positive discrimination to get those jobs. Nobody is fighting for feminism to be a sewer worker.
In the same way as nobody is fighting for teaching jobs to have more positive discrimination towards men, as it is a female dominated field.
Teaching a female dominated field?
???
@@Limrasson outside of universities
Catch-22 Paragraph A
😂
All valid arguments
i love how you can hear the women in the audience laughing the hardest xD
M would have to become F. Well...
It all went so fast that I had to rewind the video to hear what he said, but it's a brilliant joke.
Or T for Trans....
So be it then. 😎 Signed Dame Judy Dench.
"M" is fiction from the Bond movies. In real life, "M" is called "C". ("Q" is really "Q" though.)
@Axl Dave No, C is from Capt Sir Mansfield Cumming, first MI6 director, who signed himself "C" in green ink. Hence all directors are now refered to as "C". Q, though, I don't know. I do know that HMG privatised part of the Q department and called it QinetiQ.
Apparently it was Maggies favourite TV show.
"M would have to become F"
It's funny ...because it's true!
In does not matter wether it's a son or a daughter. So long as the lad's healthy :) ;)
The great thing about Yes Minister is that even as they criticize these flaws in government, they also give a relatively fair showing to the establishment.
Humphrey, for example, actually does have a real point. Female lawyers are a great example; after about 30, they almost always drop out of competitive practice to raise families.
And now 40 years on we can see they were right!
This is a British democracy indeed.
Where can I watch the entire series online?
M is the Chief of Intelligence. Like from the 007 movies.
@truvianni Somehow, you answered and echoed @VigilanteAgumon's point about the irony.
I thinks its all right and proper that we have equal rights for the ladies... .:D
Judie Dench being predicted here then hmmm ?
As for woman at the Home Office - well - yeah the less said the better there perhaps.
If the BBC weren't as obsessed with positive discrimination, it might still be able to make good shows. And news...
I would have thought thought even back then, woman were Governors of Woman’s Prisons and wardens . It was the 80’s.
CATCH 22, sub paragraph (a) - haha, I'll have to remember that one.
plz tell me, what's that supposed to mean? what's sub paragraph (a)?
In the UK, the Civil Service is notorious for producing extremely long and incomprehensible documents which are full of references to "section 4, sub-suction 2, paragraph (a)" and the like. Catch 22 is a well-known meme (google it if you don't know it) and the joke here is that, in the Civil Service, even a popular meme has sections and sub-sections, just like their documents. Hope that helps :-)
Of course not long after this we did get a female “M” (in reality known as C) in the form of Stella Rimmington, who in turn inspired the casting of Judi Dench as M in Bond!
If your mansion house needs haunting just call - MICHELMORE
Look around you, that's already happening.
This is giving me To Rule the World vibes.
Hilarious and spot on!😆
...but they’re not wrong...🤔
LOL
voice of saruman in the bbc radio adaptation :D
Wait 2010 isn't 10 years ago. Oh wait it is. Oh good I'm getting old
Well this showed up in my recommendations
I wish things were like this again......less problems less hassle
haha when were they not?
1:03 M would have to become F. reference to James bond
Employ 50% from a smaller group you end up with with less competence overall as the smaller group has mathematically smaller numbers.
Thumbnail looks like Neil Kinnock!
Lol..
I miss the old boys network! I was in a board meeting this week with 70% female and all that took place was gossiping and backstabbing. At least the old boys network was arguing and stabbing you in the gut.
Dear me, I'm wondering what would happen if this was played at a feminist movement's rally.
These fellows' effigies would be burnt down.
Comedy gold i 💘 love 👍 yes minister x
Catch 22 sub paragraph A, wonderful
Every 3 years? I thought a diplomatic assignment was for life! At least you still get to be a diplomat somewhere else I hope.
I believe they are talking about assignments to specific countries. Diplomats should usually move between countries in their careers.
Tell me what’s positive about ‘positive discrimination’ for men, or fairness.
Turns out that they were actually all correct
M did become F xD
I think they could only appoint nuns and widows. :D
And this was Margaret Thatcher's favorite show. You can appreciate the irony.
Hello moseley school
This is in 1980. wow
Irony... when this was filmed maggie thatcher was in power haha
It’s amazing how quickly the uk has fallen
0:14 And why not? I notice that they don't give an explanation on this one. It just supposed to be OBVIOUS! However it's gone over my head! And don't get it. I notice the audience doesn't laugh at that point. Although it appears to be the biggest joke in the episode!
It's to do with the perceived religious discrimination against women that is prevalent in the region, although this can range from stereotypical racism to fatalistic truth, depending on which country you're talking about. Western nations believe that women in the Arabic world are treated like property at best, prisoners of war at worst. This is mostly imperialist propaganda, but there is an unfortunate element of realism in it. It would be best for you to research the matter yourself and develop your own opinion, as this can be a sensitive issue in either extreme.
Now in 2029, M did become F2M and Bond is fourth gender conjoined.
😅
Australia 2013.
"Ardent Feminist"....nice.
A real cross-section of the nation!
But it’s true …
That wasn't funny. That was just... real. (and also a little bit funny)