Of Hedonism and Hangovers - Prof. Jordan Peterson
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2017
- Psychology professor Jordan B. Peterson explains that the hedonistic seeking of pleasure is probably not the best approach to life. He compares it with the consumption of alcohol. So brace for that hangover at the end.
This is an excerpt of Dr. Petersons lecture “2017 Maps of Meaning 4: Marionettes and Individuals (Part 3)” at the University of Toronto. Be sure to watch it in it’s entirely here:
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As this is related to the video, I would like to let you know that Dr. Peterson's new book “12 Rules for Life” is finally available. You can find it here: amzn.to/2ipaBnQ (US) / amzn.to/2kpdXv9 / (UK) amzn.to/2jTRq67 (CA) Or just get the audiobook read by the man himself for FREE via the Audible Trial program! :) amzn.to/2D9maL2
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Drinking is essentially borrowing happiness from the following day
Jordan 15396 I used to take speed in the weekends in the nineties. I was taking all my dopamine for the week and rocking it for 36hrs. Fair trade at the time.
Well then just drink till you reach your limit. My point being: you can apply hedonism to the long term.
Yep, it's just a line of happiness credit and you get the bill the next day
Not if you take small breaks before getting drunk
And from your family 🙂
I've been sitting here hedonistically watching Jordan Peterson videos for an hour instead of conscientiously repairing my car. I do live in a stable society, so I guess I should go work on my car.
Same
7 months later, you're probably due for your oil changed buddy! :)
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
The comedian he quoted at the beginning was Mitch Hedberg, for anyone wondering
Yeah, I recognized it as one of his jokes! :)
RIP Mitch!
Alice Liddle
Yup. A pure comedian. Club sandwich my personal fav.
I thought it was either him or Groucho Marx.
I love when my favorite psychologist references my favorite comedian
Hedonism is not a pursuit of happiness. It is a pursuit of pleasure. Different things.
Hedonism does not bring about happiness. Alias Lindon is correct. It is why there are two different terms.
Pursuit of virtue may very well lead to happiness but hedonism cannot. Without the identification of hedonism there might still exist the confusion that, say, a child might have with happiness, where what is sought cannot be distinguished from what is actually gained. So a child may seek to grasp a flame without the knowledge of inevitable unhappiness that an adult can see. The child or a confused adult may require retrospect to work out how desire is not necessarily linked to happiness but often leads to its opposite.
Alias Lindon the same principle applies... Assuming that pleasure/happiness is paramount.
@LEO2001 Happiness is a sense of wholeness in your heart. Which has nothing to do with what you do in your spare time. For the most part hedonism does not actually bring happiness to a person. Pleasure is not happiness. Happiness is when at the end of the day you don't feel empty or broken inside, you feel full and secure
@LEO2001 well as long as that's the truth. Because mate alot of people as I'm sure you may have noticed, like to tell themselves that they are happy but they cannot face their fears. If you cannot be truly sad then you cannot be truly happy. False dealings with pain lead to false happiness. If what you're saying is true well then good on you. It wouldn't be the most common statistic, but for your sake if it's true well then that's great, the only hedonist I know that looks happy is a fictional character called the moondog lol
I accept pleasure for what I believe it is. Which is a part of life that can be had in moderation... to much of it can lead to unhealthy lifestyle I have found and a barbaric recoil whenever you're having a shit day.
just mix short term hedonism( classic hedonism ) with long term hedonism( achievement striving ) and you're good
The big problem I have is that I don't really get hang overs, if I drink water before bed and sleep a decent amount of time I wake up feeling fine, in fact sometimes I sleep better after a decent session. People hate that I call it a problem because they'd love to not have hang overs, but I don't see it as a good thing and this video is an excellent description of why. Because the bad "at the end" is essentially liver failure due to too much drinking, it just pushes the problem way further out into the future (years/decades instead of next day) and it makes the consequences that much worse, basically death. Mixed in the with the terrible fact that I seem to be "functional"m that is, it doesn't effect my work, so I can maintain my habit...and I also have more than enough cash to just drink all the time. Bad combo.
This is the problem with hedonism. It is a mentality that is based around short term pleasure seeking at the expense of long term gain. It is procrastination. Alcoholics wake up feeling like shit due to their hangover (as alcoholics drink FAR more than most people), so they drink to numb the hangover, and in effect (as you said) they are 'kicking the can down the road'. But sooner or later, every alcoholic, no matter how professional, gets to the point where they physically can't stomach a drink, and they are forced to suffer the after effects, which are usually far worse due to the prolonged period of avoiding it.
With that being said though, this topic is more about the mentality of hedonism, short term pleasure seeking, vs long term stability and contentedness. Drinking is just one of many examples that could be used. Drugs, sex, social media, even violence for some people etc, are all ways in which people are looking for a quick shot of dopamine to compensate for their lack of seratonin.
Which is to say, all pleasure seekers, all hedonists, are depressed and are compensating with quick fix pleasure seeking. The problem with that, is that the dopamine high they get wears off quickly, which puts them on a 'downer', so they have to resort to seeking a fresh dopamine high to avoid feeling bad. Rather than fix the underlying issue, they are compensating.
Did you change over the last 6 years?
hangovers get worse as you get older...
I'm 36 tomorrow... fuck alcohol. It's horrible. When I was 21, I could get drunk as fuck, stay up all night, and then go to a Metallica concert the next day and get drunk there also... and feel great and have a good time.
This is only true for certain types of hedonism. Many hedonist philosophers have argued for pursuing simple but lasting pleasures and doing meaningful activities because it brings greater happiness in the long term.
Only if you see pleasure as the only source of happiness. While many would say suffering is the prediction of happiness if one can overcome the nihilistic outlook of this irrational world.
That's why I stopped drinking. The happy time is much shorter than the aftermath
Dude your thumbnails are rocking
Thank you. Just trimmed them up this morning.
"Temporary enjoyment of sin". One consequence when we do horrible habits around our loved ones, is we quietly tell them it's ok to behave this way. That's why our kids, biological or not, either become us, or struggle to escape us. Be sure, kids want to be the one with no rules, but ultimately love the one who enforces them. Be loved, my friends.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
It's ALWAYS the same argument for why hedonism "doesn't work" people assuming that hedonism is exclusively striving for short term immediate happiness. Hedonism is making your goal in life to maximize pleasure and minimize pain, and that REQUIRES taking concequences into consideration, obviously just going after every immediate desire is bad, but that's NOT WHAT HEDONISM IS
Touché! I'm just tired of this strawmen they put on Hedonism and also the assumption without any proof that " there's value in suffering" ...
Thank you for saying that. I totally agree. I had to write an essay on the difference between hedonism and altruism for my English class and how much of each we are. I explained that I am a hedonistic person but some of the things that give me pleasure and happiness is making others happy and doing things for others.
Hedonism is like perpetual motion. The only pleasure you get will always(no matter how big or small) be the pain you are going to receive tomorrow. With perpetual motion what is attempted is:
energy in ≠ energy out.
Which is not possible.
Dopamine always crashes(and quite quickly.)
Seratonin is a bit better but it also does get desensitized.
Oxytocin and endorphin though dont crash. Soooo. Maybe start a family or become an athlete. Oxytocin and endorphin are the only ones that you can reliably be happy with. Though they do have caveats: oxytocin requires some amount of attachment which will cause suffering. Endorphin is very unreliable and the same situations that release it will also cause stress.
The thumbnails are spot on, man.
hahahahahaha =))
As this is somewhat related to the video, I would like to let you know that Dr. Peterson and his colleagues developed the online program “Self Authoring” bit.ly/SelfAuthoring that helps you to analyze your past, to get your present life in order and to identify a more rewarding path for your future. It’s not free, but it has been proven to work in studies performed with university students. (Sorry, I make this sound like some toothpaste ad).
Jordan Peterson Fan Channel is an official affiliate of the program, so if you follow the link through, you will not only support Jordan Peterson and his endeavors but also this channel in a small way - and most importantly yourself.
Thank you and all the best!
Modern day hedonism is not the pure pursuit of happiness. Modern hedonism is subjective but the end goal is pleasure. Without getting into the intricacies of the complex philosophy of hedonism it should be understood that hedonism if done right can actually be healthy and sustainable. It motivated me to achieve great things in the pursuit of pleasure.
I'm hungover right now and feeling like an idiot again smh
Conscientiousness does work in all societies, even ones without stability. There is always the possibility of developing and living virtuously, even in prison.
Well said
If conscientiousness worked in all societies for virtuous reasons we'd live in a global utopia. 50% of male prisoners have ASPD (extremely irresponsible/unconscientious) and are violent when pressured, and prisons are run by gangs. "Virtuous" men in prison wind up holding pockets.
During the Holodomor, or terror-famine, in the Soviet Union millions died of starvation. Unconscientious parents would steal, murder, and do what's necessary to help their family survive. How far would you go for you and your families survival? Conscientious parents would sell their childrens body parts to other locals as a food source, or cannibalize them. How virtuous of them, no? This happened to such a degree the Soviets made posters warning starving peasants not to eat their children.
Conscientiousness is an evolutionarily evolved social trait for a reason (and has no inherit virtue). It takes just as much effort (and more care) to destroy an unjust system or society as it does to build a just one. Unconscientiousness has been selected for, adapted to, and genetically reinforced across millions of years and played out in billions of lives (just as much as conscientiousness). They're both a very well established axiom of human psychology and behavior.
Believing you're powerful because you're virtuous, that all people are (or can be) virtuous (and conscientious) by nature, and therefore all existence is safe (or can be) requires profoundly delusional levels of self-righteous arrogance, ignorance, and naivity. Conscientiousness is only as virtuous as the systems built by it, and remains that way only as long as the people retain the ability to enforce that virtue on the systems. Turns out most average Joe's nowadays have very little ability to enforce morality on the governing systems, but hey, deluding yourself it's all good and glorious surely can't wind up that bad right?
The lives of people (+adaptaption) > conscientiousness +virtue +__ insert ethic here___.
Mother nature will never favor the inverse, no matter how badly the evil (or naive) hearts of man try to flip the script. Of course we've forced the inverse plenty in human history but the results are always disaster. We're adaptive animals first and foremost. It's easier and better to adapt the ethic to people's lives, rather than force the opposite. The closest thing to "virtuous living" requires the unconscientious decay and destruction of corrupted systems with equal or greater parts conscientious creation and maintenaince of good systems.
Wouldn't the ultimate Hedonist learn, through correct philosophy, to enjoy most things most of the time - even the hangover.
lol. He has the wrong idea of Hedonism, people who follow Hedonism tend to plan things out to be enjoy themselves in the future, as Hedonism is the pursuit of the most amount of pleasure possible, not happiness, similar but different.
As stated, someone who follows Hedonism really well actually will sacrifice some pleasure for the future, but that doesn't mean they'll want to sacrifice all their pleasure now, they don't live in the present, but try to enjoy themselves as much as they can in life in both future and present.
Someone who just does whatever they can to enjoy themselves in the moment disregarding the consequences it can have, those people are just reckless and can't think ahead. It's like people saying 'YOLO' as an excuse to do stupid, dumb inane things. YOLO Isn't meant to justify them, but to say to enjoy yourself as much as you can because you have one life.
Both Hedonism and YOLO aren't meant to be meanings for enjoyment in the future without acknowledgment of the future, they signify that even if you need to sacrifice some enjoyment now, that doesn't mean to stop looking for as much as possible now in your own terms of maintaining a healthy level of it.
Isnt hedonism the aim to seek pleasure and avoid suffering? With that definition drinking alcohol wouldnt be a problem for hedonism, because the suffering of the hangover would be factored into the decision making process.
Hmm no not really from a drinker's point of view. The next day hangover is almost always worse than you think it will be when drinking the night before. Or perhaps the seeking of pleasure is so strong while drinking that there's a refusal or inability to even acknowledge that there WILL be suffering the next day. What day of the week is it anyway???
But of course then there are drinkers who will drink the moment they wake up to avoid hangovers at all, as JP speaks about at 1:11. Perhaps that's the real hedonism with drinking...never coming down from the high to avoid the crash, and what would have initially been a mild hangover fenderbender becomes a full-on withdrawal delirium tremens trainwreck.
That's the drinker's insanity which is at odds with your supposed rationale that a drinker factors suffering into the decision making process. There will always be suffering eventually, and the suffering becomes exponentially greater as the drinker attempts to avoid it.
Ricker Life FPV But the goal of hedonism isn’t exactly chasing pleasure and not factoring the pain. The core ideal is “Net pleasure over pain” in your life. Perhaps a drinker might find the joy of intoxication to be greater than the pain of the hangover and deem it worth it. But for many, a concept like drinking and instant gratification go heavily against Hedonistic principles. As the hangover and other short/long term consequences could result in a negative balance of more pain than pleasure.
Drinking/Smoking/Drugs/Fast Food etc is like going into debt. You'll have to pay for it.
Crap,you must be a lightweight .Im 68 and used drugs since 16 dont generalize ,fof instance a friend of mine who died of prostate cancer drank a bottle of jack Daniels daily sometimes 2 and amphetamines and cannabis every day ,he got to 70 and played a gig a night for 30 nights in a row with his band motorhead ,some are built for it your obviously not but dont judge us just coz yer a lightweight
Good luck. I wish you all the best.
Well, given the fact that we're all gonna die anyway, I don't see the point in stressing over such things. No matter if you never drink in your entire life or if you smoke a pack of cigs everyday, we're all headed to the same place. lol
@@zerothehero187 I bet you look old as shit too, don't drag normal people into your lifestyle of misery asshole
@@zerothehero187 dOnT jUdGe Us !
This is a very short-sighted view and knee jerk reaction towards Hedonism. It's actually a philosophy of balancing out the pros and cons in a sensual/aesthetic sense in order to maximize satisfaction. Professor Peterson seems to assume that Hedonism is only impulsive Hedonism, when a Hedonist would try to calculate the pleasure value over time and the sadness/stress over time and try to maximize their pleasure (minimize their pain) in the long run, which probably wouldn't entail drinking a lot every night.
You're confusing the classical term of Hedonism with the modern-day term of Hedonism. The classical term doesn't have anything to do with debauchery or decadence - so it should be clear that Peterson isn't talking about that. He's using the word Hedonism in its current contemporary use.
I'm not confusing anything - Peterson is using the wrong term, misrepresenting the philosophy, and he should know better as an intellectual.
You are at least disregarding an aspect: The word 'hedonism' and the philosophy of hedonism just aren't the same in the English language anymore. You know the difference, I know the difference; If Peterson would give a lecture about the famous Greek and Roman philosophers of the past, everyone would know that the philosophical teaching of hedonism isn't the same as the term 'hedonism' we use nowadays.
Hedonism itself got deprived of its actual philosophical meaning - and there's a good reason for that: There's not really any other word to describe a lifestyle simply focused on pleasing oneself. 'Self-indulgence', for example, is quite similar, but it isn't describing a lifestyle. I could be 'self-indulging' for only one night. But if someone says about me that I am a hedonist, it means I'm self-indulging almost every day.
I know exactly what you mean, but the word 'hedonism' simply changed its meaning over all those centuries (and not only in English!).
I hate to be repetitive but really, Peterson should know better if he purports himself to be knowledgeable on the subject. Especially when he digs back through history and argues/discusses so many broad, philosophical and religious topics. I guess it's ultimately a difference of whether you think intellectuals should abide by common usage (which has deteriorated the original meaning) or abide by the root philosophy.
Saving and storing for the future may result in regretting missing out. Why not experience things now while you still can? Obviously as long as these actions don’t leave you broke and unable to plan for the future as well.
Being industrious for too long may leave one unable to enjoy what they were working towards. So many incredible and life changing experiences are available to us all. Spend the money and have the memories before you get hit by a truck.
Man I'm high and even though this topic is serious and related to the mindset of my ex, Jordan's lovingly mannerism while he's making a point makes me chuckle 😂😂😅❤️
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Hmmm.....listening to this as im having a drink after an 11 hour day at work xD...not the best idea haha. Great video :) JP is AWESOME!!
A drink is fine, most people have one because they think of it as a good way to unwind, it generally won't have negative effects so long as Its not daily, you can have 2-3 beer spread out through the week and be mostly fine, have 3 beers in 1 night of the week and it generally won't be good for you long term.
You can get drunk (or at least a buzz) without a hangover. The cure to long term hedonistic problems is simple moderation
I feel you on that but I think most people get a hangover in proportion to their drinking. I don't, but that's what my friends make it sound like. So when my friends get any further than being buzzed, they'll talk about their hangover the next time I see them. They've also refused to take any advice from online about combatting hangovers, so it's not a surprise I guess lol
Bring moderation to the plane of drug types instead of quantity and maybe you'll understand what he said.
You can drink moderately and still develop liver disease it may take 10 or 15 years but it also only takes 3 or 4 drinks every night. Alcohol is a poison. When people say alcohol has health benefits in moderation, it’s complete bullshit. Alcohol Is a carcinogen. That’s like saying only smoking in moderation is healthy.
I had a Christian Godlife advert popup after this video! I loved the video but burst out lauging when it switched to a robotic voice screaming "what is your purpose? Jesus!". Thank you as always for the wisdom Jordon Peterson, I've studied your works for the past year and I'm proud to say I've found a way to stay I'm staying orientated towards the good
I'm looking for balance in my life now, I've turned to conscientiousness and the problem is, life feels like work, all the time. I feel guilty and can't relax. I want to fight all the time, self-improve constantly, do my duty.. What should I do so I find the right balance between Petersonian self-improvement and enjoying life on the other hand?
Walk in the middle between chaos and order.
Amazing
My great grandma always make these old people glass foods which never ged bad. Now she is dead for a while and I'm with no money for the moment but the stuff she made a few years ago is now super delicious and I sorry for thinking she could just go to the supermarket. I think this is what long term thinking looks like when it's developed over a world war, a hyper inflation and the DDR. So thanks for that grandmother. I don't know what I'm eating but now it's delicious.
Bst explanation
Hedonism must be balanced by reasonable restraint but to not live life to the fullest is a waste.
@MasochisticNarcisist *Raughs* 😂
Consciousnessness doesn’t make you happy, that’s not it’s end, that’s the opposite of pleasure in the short term, to no end always satisfies immediate sensational pleasures.
Great video wish I saw it three years ago
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
that's why I smoke weed
"A bunch of thugs" = our political leaders (QE, ZIRP, offshoring jobs, low wages from H-1Bs, etc.)
Lsd makes you quite happy
that's why a hedonism has to find pleasure in people, for the diversity in humanity is wide enough to fill up a empty stomach for centuries.
Listen to Schopenhauer on pessimism. There’s an entire libravox recording on RUclips it’s a beautiful observation on pleasure and pain.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
A hangover is NOT a withdrawal symptom of alcohol. It's an aftereffect of it. Basically your body being depleted of water and electrolytes. Same with drugs - you might feel bad the next day or the day after because your serotonin storage is depleted. Everything in the right measure. You can have a nice night with alcohol or other drugs and NOT be hungover if you know how to moderate your use.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
What about the situation of hedonistically finding pleasure in or loving something that in the long term makes it better. What if i find pleasure in making money, what if i enjoy exercise or learning? can it be described as such?
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
informative content! roughly speaking
Most people have heard “Jesus/God loves you”. Does that mean they have a relationship with God and will go to heaven? Depends on the individual. A relationship is 2 sided, you receive love and you give love back. God showed His love by suffering, dying on the cross and rising from the dead for you, now you show Love back by repenting of your sins (lying, stealing, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) and believing in Jesus as your Lord and saviour so that Heaven is in your future not hell
Super
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Thats not real hedonism.. thats the misiterpretation of hedonism.. look it up on wikipedia
ricardo vinagre smh
"I apologize for nothing..."
Hello. May I offer a thought...
I get the argument as long we are considering hedonism as the pursuit of happines. But how about considering hedonism as - maybe - Rock and Roll does; a kind of romantic promise (with it's own danger of the terrible drug-greedy well-known seductive hell and a quiet paradise and a great bang with ripples throughout humanity) of going through an inevitably tragic life in the perpetual admiration for beauty ("without music life would be a mistake") and the excitement that bursts out just because of listening to other people express the same feelings we feel and a build a culture where youth is beauty and age produces admiration. Sure, it's a naive and has it's own weaknesses (mainly as it shakes the cultural marxism away)... But isn't it still a fair enough response to the matter of facing the tragedy of life by adding that meaning? I think jazz and classical music might do something like that, but I guess Rock has a more clearly articulated and acted-out way of putting it. No doubt it provokes religious responses in people and mistical experiences.
Cheers!
I guess I wonder... could THAT be enough?
Well this Is something i thought myself but have you ever felt the deep dissapointment after a musical rapture? You look around the things you do and should be doing and what Is there? Nothing around you will give you the satisfaction and motivation to strive toward that level of meaningfulness. Emotions you experience in a calmer state are deeper in the sense that are more durable and probably more true. I have seen you cited Nietzsche in saying "Life without music would be an error" in another part of human all to human i think said that ancient greeks realized that music led them to errors of judgement so It had to be relegated to brief and occasional moments (i font remember of were the greeks or non that realized that but the content Is basically that)
@@albertodemarchi9562 I wouldn't say music is cost free, nor risk free. And maybe rock music aims at a younger croud too. But I'll think it through again with what you added to see how it works out.
Just an aside: Ancient Epicurean hedonism has nothing to do with the alcoholic hedonism criticized here, or any other form of crass hedonism.
HA HA Im 42 and get drunk everyday and after some time you dont get hung over but you do get anxiety for the first hour or two in the morning and for the rest of the day all I can think of is beer.
Right so you don’t get hungover because it’s never out your system. That’s alcoholism.
@@morris9337 Thats why I have a government job of over 10 years and dont get fired is because I am drunk at work... seems you dont have much life experience but you just keep on trolling KID!
@@1ggssxxrr pls get help
Peterson uses the term "consciousness" throughout all of his lectures, but I'm not quite 100% sure what he means. Can anybody with a better understanding clarify that for me?
He is refering to one of the "Big Five" personality traits: "Conscientiousness: (efficient/organized vs. easy-going/careless). A tendency to be organized and dependable, show self-discipline, act dutifully, aim for achievement, and prefer planned rather than spontaneous behavior. " (from Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits)
Ike Evans- Conscientiousness is not the same Consciousness
Psyche Matters: I find this Big Five definition somewhat counter-intuitive: I'm very conscientious/dependable in my dealings with others (to the point of being a little neurotic), but I'm kinda lazy and by no means always doing something/working. (Conversely, some of my friends who are always moving/working aren't that great with others, go figure!)
Rick, I'm by no means an expert, but according to that model Conscientiousness also splits into Industriousness and Orderliness. So maybe you're rather low on Industriousness in that spectrum but still very orderly (especially in dealings with people as you say). And for some of your friends it's the other way around (plus all the factors that come with other traits like Extraversion and Agreeableness).
Psyche Matter, thanks for your reply! I'm not at all familiar with the Big Five model, but I am familiar with other models, like MBTI, and been watching Peterson videos for almost a year. I'm a software guy, and as far as I can tell, I'm extremely high on industriousness and orderliness as it applies to concepts, ideas, & software (really can't stand sloppiness in these areas), but as far as physical objects, I'm low on the spectrum and can tolerate quite a lot of disorder. Oh well, know thyself, eh! Thanks again!
Hedonism can be a healthy objective to a self rewarding way. If you never built a house and had to do it with limited resource; some would find the rewards great after going thru hell after 8t is finished. The hard experience and education would give a person increase in confidences and the beforehand knowledge of doing it for another or for self again.
It is best to be unbiased when defining personality types. There is good and bad in it all. The trick is to choose right when all agrees with left. Be straight and not crooked.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
He is describing a Farmer, when he talks about always working.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
He states in this video 'roughly speaking' that when you get a hangover you become addicted. What happened to people who have their first night out and get drunk of may be 4 or 5 drinks or even less? Jordan tells us to be precise with our speech so why isn't he here? What does he mean exactly by 'addicted'? Because I doubt that anyone that has had a hangover is an Alcoholic
If one realizes, that his hedonic action will bring worse results afterward, then he won't do that, since he can't fulfill himself that way.
:::::) hedonism validated
Yeah obviously. I'm more interested in concientous hedonism. Which is no more nor less than the recognition that all motivation aught to be rooted in personal pain, pleasure and the time dimension of both of those. It leads one to different conclusions than if you assumed that what other people tell you to do is best. Because conventional wisdom is contaminated with all kinds of irrational responcibility and tradition, it may have been a mistake to begin with or it may have been useful before some major change in the environment made it unnecessary. It's also possible that the rule is for an modal human being, well you aren't necessarily one of their number in that particular realm.
sounds like W.C Fields
Alcohol is not pleasurable if you know it makes your life worse. Same thing with fast food and other drugs or short term pleasures. You can still pursue pleasure and be healthy and successful. Actually I don’t think there’s any other way to do it because then what’s the point if you’re miserable. In the end we make our decisions based on the resulting pleasure outweighing any pain we faced.
These thumbnails are sending me xd
When you misunderstood philosophy but need to talk about everything like you know it all:
Most people have heard “Jesus/God loves you”. Does that mean they have a relationship with God and will go to heaven? Depends on the individual. A relationship is 2 sided, you receive love and you give love back. God showed His love by suffering, dying on the cross and rising from the dead for you, now you show Love back by repenting of your sins (lying, stealing, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) and believing in Jesus as your Lord and saviour so that Heaven is in your future not hell
Hedonism is all pleasure no pain or the very least minimal pain so his example of drug use or alcohol isnt realy hedonism since there is pain in the hangover. True hedonism would pursue the pleasure while keeping the pain(hangover) minimal. There are ways to drink responsibly.
HYPERINFLATION!! HYPERINFLATION!! HYPERINFLATION!! 😵 😵 😸😸
If your unhappy often your not a Hedonist. Hedonism in its original form, when practiced by greeks philosophers, did account for future consequences. True Hedonist contend that you should seek the greatest amount of enjoyment possible out of life; which included the notion of making sacrifices in the present to be happy in the future. Most people are Hedonists without knowing it. An example of someone not being hedonistic, might be a person who feels its more important to leave a great legacy or history in place of living a happy life. I follow hedonism as a life philosophy and you should to :)
Makeshift Altruist hedonism seeks pleasure, not necessarily happiness or enjoyment of "life" only enjoyment of the moment. Thats quite an important distinction to be made.
Well the alcohol hangover thing you need to get a Keith Richards merit batch. Then enjoy!!
Most people have heard “Jesus/God loves you”. Does that mean they have a relationship with God and will go to heaven? Depends on the individual. A relationship is 2 sided, you receive love and you give love back. God showed His love by suffering, dying on the cross and rising from the dead for you, now you show Love back by repenting of your sins (lying, stealing, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) and believing in Jesus as your Lord and saviour so that Heaven is in your future not hell
This is not always true. A pint of beer with dinner isnt going to kill you. On the otherhand not drinking in your entire life ever isnt a gurantee that you will always be happy or live till 100. Moderation is the key. Moderate hedonism
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Also I think Socrates already dunked on the hangover argument like 1000+ years ago.
What is anyone's drug of choice. Caffeine, tobacco, cannabis, opiods really bad or wine or beer. A persons choice is there destiny. Caffeine beer wine probably a good choice
hedonism the pursuit of hapiness is definatly not my goal.
seems to me like postponing happiness
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Mitch Hedberg!!!!!
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Happiness short term most of the times has a negative effect long term
Alcohol-drug use.
So avoid things that can harm you long term but bring short term joy, like chocolate
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
"Some people never go crazy, what miserable lives they must lead"
-Charles Bukowski
Is drinking okay in moderation?
Brian Keegan of course. But one should always be careful.
I like you
I do care about family in my weakness lord Jesus is my strength therefore I rather boast in my infirmities that the power of Christ may rest upon me He said to me grace is sufficient for you thank God
I don't get hangovers.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Then how about becoming a mindful hedonist? Hedonism doesn't have to make you a jackass that can't think long term.
On the other hand this drive in form of conscientiousness, which is very in line with aristotelian idea of virtue, is really nothing more than societal pressure applied to you so continuously that you start to believe it or even using it as coping mechanism for failures in life. "I may not feel that good and have that much but it's only because I work so hard while others don't! That's the value I brought. All I have is all the better the more work I put into it." It's such a Genealogy of Morals all over again. Not only most people with this view think it's a universal truth, making them apply that standard to everyone around and bellittle or hold it against them when they don't meet it; but it's also abundantly clear self brainwashing that makes you pretend that pursuit of happiness comes from something else that our instinct and pure sentience.
In short, conscientiousness is undeniably pragmatic but it's even more undeniably a big lie when you take it too deeply. Just another way to pat yourself on your back so you don't feel that miserable. Another form of belief in Karma that gives you sense of order and of how much you deserve from life.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 I have no interest in salvation from somebody with morality so corrupted that they believe in inheriting sins at all, let alone through all of humankind's history. Your god is nothing more than a psychopathic, tyrannical villain from a poorly written dark fantasy. To do evil requires being able to have impact on the world first. The reason you believe an infant can be "born with a sin" is philosophical ineptitude of priests who thought that they stopped being barbarians just because their societies don't live in caves anymore and sometimes write. That and your willful ignorance.
I don't think people understand hydration. Ya drink water and you won't get a hangover
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 psh k
@@brandtgill2601 Look ill share something personal. I’ve personally seen Jesus (Not worthy), Heaven and Hell. Hell is worse than what you think (I was shaking after that experience), and Heaven is better than what you think. I have also received a personal healing miracle, I can go into details if you want. This is how God works. If you give Him the benefit of the doubt, He gives you more and more. Would I spend even 2 minutes preaching if I had an ounce of doubt? (I’ve experienced way too much)
May *_The LORD,God_* protect you and your family in The Name Of *Jesus*
That is scientifically NOT how hangovers work
This guy is novel and a lot i agree with but he obvi furnishes his dichotomies around Conservative pespectives with very little self awareness of what he excludes when he’s doing it. Contentiousness = people who save money and have money and if you have a lot of debt= lack of contentiousness. Lmbooo! Keep all this is mind when he starts overblowing his alarm bell take on “pc culture” .
Highly disappointing at least in this video. It shows you no view of what Hedonism is, just criticises it.
Wow is this bad!
Absolutely no clue!
This "insert really bad adjective" is trying to imprint our messed up social norms on a truly amazing philosophical concept.
This is like a 2nd grader trying to argue math with a PhD in quantum mechanics.
He Does Not Get It!
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
this coming from the guy who's off his head on benzos? hahahahaha xD
I want you 100% 24 hours all of you and all of me why your talking about relationship do you love you? I am your body how can you hate your body for others just think about this
Most people have heard “Jesus/God loves you”. Does that mean they have a relationship with God and will go to heaven? Depends on the individual. A relationship is 2 sided, you receive love and you give love back. God showed His love by suffering, dying on the cross and rising from the dead for you, now you show Love back by repenting of your sins (lying, stealing, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) and believing in Jesus as your Lord and saviour so that Heaven is in your future not hell
no, the hangover is because dehydration, just drink two glasses of water before sleep
your body also goes into mild withdrawals
Jordan Peterson does not know the difference between pleasure and happiness, apparently. Yikes.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Jordan doesn't understand Hedonism
Most people have heard “Jesus/God loves you”. Does that mean they have a relationship with God and will go to heaven? Depends on the individual. A relationship is 2 sided, you receive love and you give love back. God showed His love by suffering, dying on the cross and rising from the dead for you, now you show Love back by repenting of your sins (lying, stealing, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) and believing in Jesus as your Lord and saviour so that Heaven is in your future not hell
Uh, prof, hangovers are due to the EFFECTS of alcohol, including dehydration and expansion of blood vessels. Not withdrawal.
He was talking about the jittery and anxious part of being hungover.
Yea, but it's still not withdrawal. Withdrawal is body readjusting to not being intoxicated after it got used to being intoxicated for too long. Hangover is caused by the side effects of alcohol consumption and not the sudden lack of its presence in the body (which coincidentally masks those effects due to the alcohol metabolism). It's just the matter of using correct terms to specific things.
Symptoms of alcohol withdrawal can absolutely be present the day after binge drinking. You guys have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Take a class or read a book.
Semantics
Semantics matter if you're a professor of psychology.
DeuPKay of course they can, but you don't go into withdrawal everytime you get drunk and get hungover.
Cool, not actual hedonism.
All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY
Secretly talks about the Jews...without saying Jews...
Who really gives a shit. Life is generally dull and repetitious. Nothing wrong with a few guilty pleasures to take you to another realm. Hedonism does this like nothing else. And you have a hangover the next day, well I actually enjoy the hangover. It sedates me and keeps me relaxed not forcing me to do activities all the bloody time. It all depends on your character. Some people are risk takers and hedonistic. These people generally achieve lots because of that mindset. Just look at musicians, actors, bankers and politicians. Most of these people have a hedonistic streak and that's why they are taking risks and living the high life.
So do your yoga and drink your herbal tea your boring f...kers. You will never take risks and you will die living unadventurous clean living lifes
That's fine but there's a difference between smart risks and dumb risks.
You do you
I hope to God you're under the age of 25.
I'm 40. I run my own company. Exercise 3 times a week in the gym lifting weights. I engage in hedonism on the weekends. I'm in fine shape and I manage to fit everything in for a dynamic exciting lifestyle. Ultimately it's all about balance.
It is never to late to realize idolizing Jordan Peterson is a big mistake