Who Are The Mentats? | Dune Lore
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 20 фев 2021
- In this video I discuss the origins of the Mentat Order and the functions they serve in the feudal interstellar society of Dune. I also talk about the different Mentats that appear in Dune as well as who we can expect to see in Denis Villeneuve's Dune movie.
Piter de Vries Lore - • Who Is The Twisted Men...
Thufir Hawat Lore - • Who Is The Mentat Thuf...
Count Hasimir Fenring Lore - • Who is Count Hasimir F...
Background music - Vorsa - If You Only Knew
Intro Track Name: "Watching The Clouds" Music By: LAKEY INSPIRED @ / lakeyinspired
Official "LAKEY INSPIRED" RUclips Channel HERE - / @lakeyinspired
License for commercial use: Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported "Share Alike" (CC BY-SA 3.0) License.
Art Credits
(if I missed your credit or miscredited a photo please let me know via email at nerdcookiesreviews@gmail.com)
Muad'dib by Vincent Tanguay
Scifi duneish thing By Scharborescus
Paul by Brian Taylor / candykillernews
Piter Devries by Kristine Houston www.artstation.com/kannehouston
Thufir Hawat (Dune CCG) by Mark Zug
Information sources: Frank Herbert’s Dune Series
dune.fandom.com/wiki
en.wikipedia.org/wiki
All the videos, songs, images, and graphics used in the video belong to their respective owners and I or this channel does not claim any right over them.
Fair Use
Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research.
Use of any copyrighted material in this video qualifies as fair use. 
Развлечения
Humans in the Dune universe in a nutshell: “Robots seem sus. Let’s go back to feudal society and do drugs instead.” 😂
to be fair the dune 25,000 years in the future they had a lot more time to test pharmacueticals with more subject test data and no FDA or ethical constraints to retard progress
american libertarian conservative ideology in a nutshell. The story is good but the philosophies behind it are incredibly shallow
@@albe8479 it's basically never trust your idols
@@albe8479
Why do those same libertarian conservatives support politicians like Trump who massively furthered the War on Drugs and has essentially made pain medication all but impossible to get prescribed? Even people getting limbs amputated are being sent home with no medications now! The American people lost their rights to make decisions about being able to take pain meds.
They always fall for the lies.
@@keirfarnum6811 it's not the politician, it's the idea behind it that scares me. libertarian conservative concept of freedom is basically bigotry without any consequence, nuance or respect of freedom of people outside this people in-group. also no authority is good unless they allow this people to do whatever they want
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion
As a coffee addict, I love this!
Very True !
I love tea!
@@genmaicha.lapsang So do I, two tea drinkers alone in a world of decaf double latte's. Now i gotta go make a cuppa.
Dune society's main pillars:
-crackhead space bus drivers
-crackhead nerds
-creepy sorority
You forgot the other pillars: the oligarchal capitalist rulers and their religiously fanatical armies.
Not to mention +2 to Intelligence & Perception, -1 to Charisma during withdrawl
I love to overdose myself for mentats when crafting shit
Worm sign
Worm attack
Harvester destroyed
Mentats are the makers and consumers of Mentos.
Their reaction to aspartame is remarkably like that of a lasgun on shield armor.
"It is by Freshmakers alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Mentos that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by freshness alone I set my mind in motion."
@Tom Mustard as always
@Tom Mustard That comment was better in your own head.
Don't Mention it.
Interesting factoids. When Brad Dorf was playing The Mentat Piter de Vries he was asked to come up with some sort of litany that the order would say. He was the one who authored and created the litany, it is by Will alone I set my mind in motion. Mentioning the juice of sapho.
Fun fact: A factoid is something that is in the shape of a fact, but is not actually true. It isn't a lie mind you, it just isn't a... fact :) Neat trivia though, the mantra is one of the few additions to the Lynch movie that improved on the novel :)
I wrote the litany in the comments I apologize if I spelled anything wrong ✌🏻
Brad dourif's daughter should have been cast as mentat might of been cool
@@ericaziz2288 I don't think that we need anymore gender swapping in the new Dune adaptation. Dr. Kynes is enough.
@@zemxxi2765 she actually is phenomenal. She really fits the purpose and I wasn't bothered that character was gender swapped. As an Imperial, the gender isn't important. But she really has an impact and presence. I'd say she was written better in the Villeneuve movie than the character in the original, he was good, but he was just a guy and didn't have the kind of scenes that made him memorable. With her interactions with Duncan, Paul and then how she does out calling the Maker to take out the Sadaukar when she does, it's the writing and performance that matter, not the gender.
Mentats are, to my mind, the most complete way to naturally imagine a Hari Seldon type of character in any science fiction I've read. Chosen as youths to see IF they can reach the abilities required for perfect recall, savant tier computations, and predictive models all within the mind.
Interesting way to see it, I agree totally.
Except that Seldon and his fellow researchers did use computing technology to develop Psychohistory and the Plan. The Second Foundation would continue this as they worked to refine and update the Plan.
read early neil asher, orson scott card for similar explorations
Actually some us today have at least some of the Mentat abilities today. I myself have a near unparalleled ability to recall almost anything I come across. I’m also very good at predictive modeling. However I lack the skills in the mathematics department. I just couldn’t wrap my mind around the numbers. See math skills actually compete with the other 2 needed for mentats
@@daniels7907 don't forget repairing The Plan after the Mule
So Humanity switched from a _technocracy_ to a _transhumanist theocracy._ Fascinating stuff.
well, SuperHuman Theocracy. not "Trans-human". big difference.
@@Tommy1977777 I think it's debatable, considering Transhumanism involves augmentation of the biological human by artificial means, including gene editing and cybernetic implants. Then again, such methods might be relegated to use by the Bene Tleilax. Transhumanism also involves the ascension of Humankind into a new paradigm of existence, which the Bene Gesserit seem to be working towards with the Kwisatz Haderach prophecy.
Edit: spelling
@@runswithphantoms1757
I think that this is what separated Dune from most other science fiction at the time and even most today.
Herbert was exploring possibilities of trans-humanism decades before it was cool. The original Dune was published in 1965 to Chapter House Dune in 1985.
As I understand it. Computers and AI more in particular, were outlawed after technology enslaved humanity.
Thus making human computers a must have item in any house of note 😉
Ya i want to really like dune...
but the whole "machine bad" thing is just the reason why "machine bad" just seems kinda dumb. I wont let it totally ruin it for me but that part is tough
probably somebody has already mentioned it, but the word "computer" was originally used to describe a PERSON adept at calculations. Only later was the word applied to DEVICES and preceded with an adjective, such as "electronic computer" to describe a machine designed for calculations. Herbert's works, in effect, reclaimed its original definition.
Computor vs computer.
I always liked that mantra. Its interesting how mentats can have different occupations or talents yet being generalists. Herbert makes some great points about specialists vs generalists ,
My (late) father used to drill into me: “*Before* you reach for any calculator, or computer, you must *first work it out in your head!* You only use a device to *check* what you’ve already worked out!”
I still reach for calculators first.
My dad was a Mentat.
[My comment is also posted in another comment thread]
@David Olden. But the scary thing is.... what if calculators were outlawed? That's the Dune universe. Not even that innocent little device was allowed.
@@blackolantern5666 No, calculators aren’t outlawed. “Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.”
@@davidolden971 Right, ALL thinking machines were prohibited, but according to what I've read even if you possessed something as simple as a calculator.... it was instant death.
@@blackolantern5666 That’s possible. I haven’t read beyond the first 3 books + The Dune Encyclopedia (based on Herbert’s own extensive development notes).
Some interesting background on the author Frank Herbert: he was a U.S. Navy veteran of ww2. He served some of his time in north africa where he likely watched the tribesman of the desert region there. It is likely the influence for his model of the Fremen. Also the degeneration of the Fremen later on likely serves to represent the slow march of time on successful civilizations.
I tried to explain Dune mythology to my GF, I gave up after about five minutes because I had to go off on so many tangents. I'm just going to have her watch your videos.
😆 excellent
I had the same situation with my boyfriend and it was surprising how much he actually understood
My wife got a kick out of the Lynch film, and will probably see the new one with me. Beyond that, she listens to my explanations while watching the movie, but I don't think she cares much further lol.
Thank you Nerd Cookies. You are a river to your people.
I already know about the things you talk about. Plus, I watch Quinn's Ideas and Secrets of Dune as well. It's just really great to watch Dune content from anyone. I love your channel alongside those others
Nerd Cookies, you do such a clear job of explaining the subjects. Just waiting to see you and Quinn working together on something. Calm, clear, excited!
I am really enjoying these expanded character videos. I am re reading the original novel in preparation for the upcoming movie release, and these are the perfect companion. Thank you!
I'm digging the Vorsa BGM, its like we have the same playlist! Really good narrative explanation too!
the Mentats also served as "Master of Assassins" within the various Houses.
Mentats be like:
"computers cant ever do better than humane because humane invented it"
while standing in spaceship that flies better than humane ever could.
@@getthegoods420 it wasn't that. It was based on the premise that a human was subject to morality. Whereas a computer never could be. This let itself to catastrophe.
I always enjoy it whenever you upload a new video Elaine. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Jared!
Always a good day when I get my Dune Lore fix. Thanks NC 👍
Thanks for sharing all this background information, l remember seeing the original Dune film, l had read the first 4 books but there were elements of the story l didn't quite understand thanks to this video lve been able to connect the dots years later
What you said about the technology of most sci-fi being what really separated the Dune mythos really hits the spot
Nice details, thank you for entertaining me.
Another excellent Dune vid. Thank you, Nerd Cookies.
Excellent video.
I always viewed Robert Downey, Jr's portrayal of Sherlock Holmes as a kind of 'Mentat'
Thufir Hawat was trained as a mentat-assassin. Jessica mentally noted this fact during their mild confrontation on Arrakis after the hunter seeker attempt on Paul's life.
Love learning the deeper world of Dune!
It's important to note that people turned away from thinking machines not because the machines themselves were inherently bad, but because certain people that used them had done so with malice and intent to enslave. This is important for the re-emergence of these machines later on in the series and for the progression of the philosophy that the author presents concerning technology.
Also, I think it's neat that the first mentat law was tweaked a bit and used as part of Jamis' monolog for one of Paul's visions in the new film.
"Formidable indeed."
Great video
All this ties back to end of the Dune original storyline when the intelligent machines return to the Dune universe.
I would love to see the reverence that everyone has for Thifur’s abilities. For a character so revered and feared by all, even the emperor, we have seen so little of him in the trailers of the movie. I am worried that his roll shall not get the attention it deserves
I'm afraid we won't get enough of anything but main characters but I know not getting enough is the only way to keep it magical 🙁
I enjoy your take on the the "DUNE" universe as it is in the books. My hope is that Villanueve is able to convey how the Mentats are very dangerous along with the more visceral Fremen warriors.
Yeah as a Dune newbie I can't imagine their danger. They just seem like Wikipedia
Wonderful job....as usual.☆
Thank you Scott!
Your Dune lore videos sound just like Princess Irulan narrating and it's wonderful
🥰
As a teen fresh off Star Trek (pre-Next Gen), I desperately wanted to see Mentats as the Dune universe Vulcans. Seems David Lynch heard and misinterpreted my prayer...🤣 I’m not sure how extensive mental discipline promotes luxuriant eyebrow growth. Maybe that’s a side-effect of Sapho.
I could listen to any audiobook in your voice and still like the book lol
Agreed
Is it a robot doing the voice?
Good perspective on the Dunew history as always. Of cause, thinking machines definition was skirted in the Universe out of nessecity.
Perfect timing.
Great video, "it is by will alone i set my mind in motion" inspired me for myself. I always liked the idea humans relying on themselves to figure things out and the real dangers of a programmed/learning AI
Great work, as I have been playing catch up. I do have one question for you. What have you thought of the Brian Herbert books?
"Saffoil Juice?" i mean, that's not even subtle.. its the most common precursor for MDMA found in nature.. what i love most about dune is how organic and downright psychedelic it is at heart.. one would think it contradictory, the fantastical visions and dreams of our main characters.. anyone who has done DMT, or even Psilocybin and LSD, will attest, that experience is as real as anything else in our universe, maybe more so.. in any other novel it would be 'magic', but within 'Dune', the psychedlic angle further grounds the entire affair even more, it's really the only logical explanation for humanitys great steps forward in history anyways.. why are mushrooms illegal to This DAY in the USA.. oh, they're 'dangerous' all right, just not the way they tell you they are..
Im imagining being able to speak 5 sentences at the same time when these guys be out there rocking super speed thinking like a computer with hundreds over there thinking
Mentats as presented in the Frank novels lack the all-consuming single purpose of other factions, such as the Sisterhood, Tleilaxu, and Space Guild. Peiter is described as twisted, but all Mentats are sociopaths by design; Peiter is a spy master though, and prefers to sacrifice people and use torture to achieve his goals. Always, it is efficiency first though. Thufir is exactly the same, only his preferences run in long term troop preservation and minimizing military losses. This has lead him to create a very loyal military base for Leto to use. I will need to look up this "twisted" reference though, because it goes across the grain of the Tleilaxu in general. While they are certainly immoral throughout the novels, they have a weakness of creativity: they only copy bits and pieces of people, with new variations only occurring by chance. There is an underlying flavor in the books for this, as they are always getting smaller as a race. This is a common effect when inbreeding is used over several generations. Brilliant video as always though :) I kind of hope they use that lip marking as a sort of badge, with some staining underneath, exposing the ritualistic feel of most of the Dune universe :)
the lip stain "might" come from the shape of the container the individual is drinking the S.jucie from.
Love the thumbnail art. Perfectly captures how Thufir should be. An old grizzled warhorse mentat master of Assassin's. Someone who should be feared for his intellect and still a physical threat. He's never been properly portrayed before. The Howat corps were feared and respected soldiers and spies. The confrontation between Jessica and Thufir over Duncan's spying shows that he was more than just a cunning foe.
I love the Mentat idea
You and Quinn's Ideas should do a live stream on the Dune Saga.
Never was interested in Dune until I found out AUSTIN BUTLER will be in Dune 2 as Feyd ! Now I've got to prepare myself with reading the books and understanding the characters. Can't wait to see Dune 2 with Austin Butler!.
Be sure to see Dune part 1 first
🎶 Mentats fresh and full of life 🎶
I think that red-dyed pistachios were the precursor to sappho juice.
"... the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning."
Brilliant !!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks elaine.
Excellent nerd cookie content.
They give a temporary bonus to Intelligents and charisma
I wonder how subtle the difference would be between normal and twisted Mentats. They ( and their clients) might be at a disadvantage if the normal Mentat could not factor in immoral or "twisted' data...so is it that they will only suggest moral solutions or strategies? Otherwise they would risk missing a lot of possible, and dangerous, scenarios. Which suggests there might not be much difference in the Mentat processing between the two...just in what is deemed acceptable output. Subtle indeed 🙂
I think I would make the distinction based on the metric that Mentats are trained with a humane underpining which lends itself toward advising against (or being disgusted by) historical tragedies such as the Holocaust or Gulags, but if a mentat sees the computation of those avenues as not only viable, but appropriate, they wash out.
@@thomasboyles9773 nod... The processing and logic are the same. There is just different " filters" on the output.
The book throws up a huge moral dilemma in that the predictions for the future of humanity all show it collapsing into extinction... except for 'the Golden Path'. The golden path, however, requires a massive restructuring of the entire population and the way of life they had become accustomed to. The protagonist must choose whether to set this in motion even though it will result in billions of deaths and a period of total control unlike any that has gone before. Would a regular Mentat even see the potential solution?
While Mentats are not usually required to deal with problems of this magnitude It is just a scaled up 'trolley problem'... They are supposed to be trained to be free from bias and prejudice and so the 'lesser of two evils' ought to be an available and ultimately logical option?. Well,.. it is only logical if the objective, extending human survival time, is clearly defined as prefered outcome!
@@GrahamMilkdrop Now that's a good point. Does that put the Atreides( Paul and Leto II) into the "twisted" Mentat category..or elevate them to "uber" my entat because of their expanded, kwisatch haderack, data set? It's definitely a trolley problem that resolved the problem by sacrificing the individual for the species survival..which is the natural evolutionary solution. Another throwback to the Butlerian Jihad maybe?
@@solospirit4212 Well, Paul pulled out and the book frames it as him not being willing to give up his humanity whereas Leto II was. I guess that means humanity as a quality is a weakness or logical deficiency..? Is it more sociopathic to choose to act in a way that allows the entire species to become extinct in order to save yourself from the judgement of others or to act in ways that will draw criticism and yet ensure its survival? It is optics, or filters, as you say.
The jihad gives rise to disgust in society in the same way that WW2 has given rise to disgust of 'final solutions'! The golden path too will give rise to disgust of tyranny. Perhaps the lesson is that it is a cyclical inevitability that humanity is doomed to experience?
"Know a Mentat by his red-stained lips."
I’m pretty sure frank herbert could see the future, and he’s definitely right. I think thinking machines (AI) should definitely be overseen to the highest degree. I’m pretty sure that they have had a really smart ai for years now and they aren’t telling us. It’s probably plotting against the “disease” or humanity right now..
Oof! What a lovely voice! That's some serious ASMR
The Reverend Mother's words reflect so well as a criticism of social media companies and their "technology."
I beg your pardon ~ The line "It is by will alone ~" is found in the books. Don't ask me what page but it's there. When I saw that in '84 I was delighted they'd included it. It's very like the Litany Against Fear ~ it's one of the classics. Like the diamond tattoo on Dr Yu's forehead, you'd feel short-changed if it wasn't included. In fact, I'm pretty sure it gets recited by both Thufor and Piter de Vries.
while generally I like the film to be true to the book, I do respect Villneuve's way of differentiating mentats by the mark on the lower lip. I think that a red stained mouth would make them look like a kid who drank too much Koolaid
My overly simplified description/explanation of what a mentat is: A really, really smart person.
Moar cookies!! But not of the girl scout kind!
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻Gratitude
Awesome dive into Mentats! The sapho stain in the Denis version looks like they drink it through a straw, or did at one time if traveling in micro gravity so they may now mark or tattoo themselves in the traditional stain of their fore bearers or use the tattoo to "hide" the stain from a straw. I see it as kind of like in The Expanse how "modern" hardcore OPA Belters tattoo rings around the base of their necks to mimic the scars the old Belters (like Anderson Dawes) got from wearing ill fitting space suits.
I would just love to see their calculating nature and how they blend it with being human. It would be too easy to have another Vulcan or Commander Data doppelganger in the series, so the humanity Gilbertus showed even at the late stages of his training was pretty eye opening. I also thought it was one of the more clever and thought out story lines Brian and Kevin wrote to have the most free thinking machine in a stroke of irony create the most calculating human to pass down his machine "ancestry" where he saw and defended him as a father would a son.
Question: Is it possible for humans to actually become Mentats like in Dune, sans the Sappho juice?
I mean, take into account all of the mental feats real humans can perform: mental math/human calculator, photographic memory, speed reading, the "Mind Palace" from the modern Sherlock Holmes series (the ability to make mindscapes within one's own imagination), Nikolai Tesla's ability to make working models of inventions in his head such that the prototypes he built worked exactly like he thought they would, the ability to run mental simulations as presented in the book "Games You Can Play in Your Head by Yourself Right Now", and even the underappreciated use of logic and critical thinking. With all of these in mind, if a person were to practice all of them in an interconnected fashion, is it possible for a human being to become a "human computer", a Mentat, like in Dune?
Bear in mind, I'm not going to count fringe abilities that are typically debunked when tested rigorously, such as ESP, precognition, and other "psychic" abilities. Nor am I including heightened intuition. These are not a part of the Mentat training in Dune and do not have the "computer like" qualities that Mentats train in. I'm asking about the possibility of Mentats, not Bene Gesserits.
Yes; it only takes lots of time. Sometimes I find myself diagnosing people based on a few specific facts. People become pretty surprised when one does that and it ends up being true. But that's 20 years of experience.
"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."
Dune really should be considered a guide for how humanity should develop itself for our space faring future.
Nerd Cookies for life.
When I spoke to Brian Herbert with Kevin Anderson he joked about being a" Mentat".
Nobody:
Mentats: “yeah, this is big brain time”.
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion...
Maybe in Denis V's version, Mentats administer the sapho juice in such a manner that it leaves the mark on their bottom lip over time. Perhaps it comes from some kind of device with a rectangle-shaped mouthpiece that they rest on the bottom lip.
I always thought mentats taste of tums with a slightly soured carbonated fizz aftertaste.
From one neon sign intro user to another, don't stop doing what you're doing. The negative comments make up 0.01% of your audience, and you gotta be a sad person to even go out of your way to say something negative on RUclips.
So, do the huge fuzzy eyebrows have a real basis on the books, or were they only Lynch's aesthetic choice?
Ahhhh fresh baked COOKIES!!!!
I set my mind in motion to become a navigator to fold space and time
If you think of it: A mentat is just a savant.
This ladies voice sounds like the one from "Universe Inside You"
Well done... for a mentat.
I've really enjoyed watching Brad D. develop as an actor ever since "One Flew Over the Cooko's Nest." Yeah Billy! Loved Wormtongue, too.
Gilbertus Albans, the first jedi. True.
Mentats are to Dune what the Maesters are to Game of Thrones.
Mentats: The Kingmaker. (Do do do dooo doup doaaaaa~)
I love the pic. If I’m not mistaken, it’s from the dune trading card game.
Thank you. It is from the trading card game, and it’s my artwork. 😊
@@marxug1 you are welcome. I’ve spent many hours playing that game and was always impressed with your artistic interpretation of the dune universe. Loved the look. What was your inspiration and were you governed in any way? I had an Atreides deck, which included this Thufir card, but my best was a Spice miners deck.
I definitely drew inspiration from the David Lynch film on many of them, other times I drew from my reaction against certain of Lynch’s choices, for instance the Baron Harkonnen. I was subject to art direction, but they pretty much liked whatever I did. About halfway through the run they told me to steer away from explicitly Lynch visuals for rights reasons.
@@marxug1 one of the few things I found appealing about the Lynch movie was the aesthetic direction, for the most part anyway. I agree with you about the Baron. He was grotesque but not in the way he was depicted in the Lynch Dune. Nice work sir, I appreciate your efforts.
Sherlock Holmes' brother, Mycroft Holmes, was the first mentat.
Count Fenrig was a Mentat? I know he had Bene Gesserit training, but I don't recall any mention of him being a mentat.
Bene Gesserits ARE mentats, if I'm not mistaken
That Juice Of Sapho Looked Good, Especially With Vodka
In the Fallout universe, the pills you can use to enhance your intelligence are named Mentats in reference to them.
The mind of man is holy.
Mentats are like Vulcans.
R.I.P ✝️.
THUFIR TAKE THE REPORT
The mentats are bio computer with capacity greater than the thinking machines. Before the butlerian jihad space travel was possible by thinking machine. Apparently made possible by their ability to make the calculations to make the necessary space travels. So if mentats were on par or better than machines why could they make the calculations to make space travel possible?
nothing on Teg Miles? The best mentat!
I think somebody should do a video on the various religions blended together in Dune. Zen-Suni, Bene-Gesserit, Latin for doing good, as part of Roman Catholicism. the promise of a Messiah, all the Arab/Muslim influences in the Fremen. and their control of Spice/Oil.
The commandment “thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.” Is rather poorly worded in my opinion. If you think about it, you can’t really compare a “thinking” machine with a human mind as they function drastically differently. For example you can easily repair or upgrade a computer by swapping out parts, but if you do the equivalent to a human, that person will suffer catastrophic injury or a drastic change in personality. I think a more accurate commandment would be “thou shalt not make a machine that can potentially match or surpass a human mind in capability.”