Is this the big Delta reveal?
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
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I'm looking to start putting together a list of accessories I want to buy for the Aptera, if you have suggestions to add to the list below, let me know in the comments!
Extra solar panels
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Tesla to J1772 adapter
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Lumbar support
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Camping mattress
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Spare wheel
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Cool stuff I use
EUC
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phone and camera
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computer
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microphone
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wireless microphone
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Things that fill the front area are 2 or 3 inverters, charger, air handler, shocks, circulation pumps, windshield washer reservoir, coolant reservoir, electric brake booster and master cylinder, A/C compressor, coolant chiller, and 400 to 12 volt converter.
And here I was hoping it could be used as a mother-in-law compartment.
I agree with @Gary Greenway; I think there's lots of stuff in the front so there's no room for a frunk of any useful size.
The new body uses that for frontal support too, there is a bar now right down the middle of the frunk making it unusable.
A good list but also add a 12 volt battery.
@@denisbessette7219 Yep
It actually makes sense to assemble at least a few Delta prototypes in Italy: Imagine carting all the part back to Carlsbad for assembly and then finding that there are problems - and having to wait until corrected parts can be fabricated in Modena and then shipped to California. The workshop space that Thomas and Jason are overlooking in the video isn't all that large so I'm guessing maybe four to six Apteras could be assembled there?
I think there will be a cover on both upper and lower control arm covers and will encase the cables to the motors.
Agreed. Even with the previous design it seems the control arms would produce some turbulence if not covered.
I think the side panel pieces you were wondering about at 7:47 are the rear wheel covers. You can see the vertical holes that match those covers at 10:50
Ahhhh yes
Definitely - those several holes in the back of each match up perfectly with where the EVA foam will be installed
Or sound proofing for that area?
Yes, this are the rear wheel covers. When they change the view in the video, the mounting steps repeats. The time where the front side panels are attached matches the time when the rear wheel cover are attached.
I bet that small bin in the trunk will be for the "spare wheel" kit ...the patch kit, tools for taking off the wheel pants, Jack...etc.
Add various charging accessories to the items in that back storage area. NACS - CCS adapters, granny lead and whatever.
The fact that their partners are standing with them is the one thing giving me confidence...
I agree. My surprise was that they said that CPC and Aptera had been working on this development for 1.5 years.
once you put the HVAC blower, the shocks/springs, the steering box, the brake reservoir, the cooling reservoir, the lighting modules and the electrical controls that front space gets filled up quickly. O and the 12 volt battery.
I know all EVs seem to come with a 12v battery, but I am not sure why. Wouldn't it be cheaper to just use the main battery and step down the voltage?
@@WyndStryke I suppose it's like the bootstrapping process of bringing online something simple and safe first, and using it to "bring online" (connect the circuit) of the higher voltage bus when all is deemed OK - but while also making sure that certain systems remain available even if the high voltage bus ever encounters a fault and has to be disconnected for safety reasons, or if its fuse goes off.
Keeping the "industry standard" automotive 12 volt bus allows use of all of the well established supply chain for components like switches, buttons, lights, and so on. What an BEV won't need and Aptera won't use is a traditional 12 V lead acid "starter battery" - I think it was Chris Anthony that mentioned shortly what it'll be like in some video or stream. All they really need for the job is something small and light but rugged and long lasting with just enough electrical capacity to keep all the low voltage systems powered while the main high voltage pack may remain entirely disconnected, which may not be often at all but evidently still remains a design choice everyone makes. So it does work exactly like you suggest and the only "additional expense" to the bill of materials is having some suitably sized but small 12 V battery as a "buffer" - almost anything will suffice.
@@WyndStryke Have they said Aptera will have a 12 volt battery?
@@fotoguru222 It's fairly universal for EVs to have a 12 volt battery. I don't know if Aptera will have one, but if it didn't, that would be quite unusual (I sort of hope it doesn't, for simplicity reasons, but there's undoubtedly a good reason why so many EVs do have one, as per Sietuuba's reply).
@@WyndStryke I'm guessing they'll use a small Lithium 12 volt battery, not Lead-acid.
As we expect, Aptera Owners Club continues to provide, good, detailed, commentary and observations of Aptera collateral which is characteristically vague and thin on substance. The check always seems to be in the mail with Aptera. To refresh our understanding, to be a "Delta" the vehicle has to be manufactured with all production parts and using production processes. A delta can not be hand assembled. Additionally, the government testing (Crash, etc.) must be done with a true delta (Not hand assembled). I agree strongly with the statement that the engineering of delta is not complete and Aptera is still refining the implementation. There has been a major transition from what the alphas were to what we are seeing as a delta. Kudos to management and engineering for making such remarkable progress in such a short time and with so little money.
The pieces you had a question about I believe are the two cowling pieces for the rear wheel.
I believe you are correct
Agree. Munro Assoc have saved them a ton in more ways than just production.
Hi Steve, I haven't fully viewed this video, but FYI, I just submitted the following message to Aptera (it makes reference to your excellent recent earlier followup on the interview with Jason:
Hi Aptera,
(URGENT MESSAGE)
We (the public) haven't seen the driver controls and from what we have been shown, we can only assume that most driver controls are to be found on the center console screen.
In this message, I just want strongly urge that Aptera have at least some rudimentary Conventional Driver Controls be configured as on any car on the road today: I.e. Please make sure you include for the Delta production model:
a) Left handed turn signal stalk behind steering yolk coming out of steering column to allow left and right turn / lane change signaling.
b) Wiper control, and high and low headlight beam control placed within a Right handed control stalk behind the steering yolk coming out of the steering column.
c) Leave the horn button where it already is, (or at least make it available somewhere on the steering yolk (if you have to move it).
I hate to be dogmatic and demanding (I love everything about you guys at Aptera, and am one of your most die hard fans), but I plead: DO NOT place these essential driver controls on a touch screen (where the driver has to take his/her eyes off the road and remove their right hand from steering wheel to hunt for that control on a large center screen while the car is bouncing around.
If these essential driver controls are foolishly placed on the center console screen, the Aptera will be seen by the public as an impractical joke, and an unsafe vehicle to drive. I too will have to cancel my order (mainly because the vehicle is simply unsafe to drive).
To see several explanations of this need, please view the final section (the later half) of user comments from this recent video from Aptera's Owner's Club interview with Jason Hill:
ruclips.net/video/VK6r9fhOqco/видео.html
Thank you Aptera in advance for reading this urgent message (before Delta is finalized and produced).
Again, I cannot (and will not) purchase any vehicle where the above mentioned essential driving controls are placed on the center console touch screen. I sincerely doubt anyone else will either.
Ditto. Excellent suggestions. Actually, critical suggestions.
Because of Aptera's open architecture we can add all of these aftermarket. I will be one of the people trying to retrofit physical controls. At the end of the day you're getting a 250 mile EV for around $30k, sacrifices will have to be made.
I don't think you'll get your wish. Cars are going the way of UI control. It's just more cost effective than physical switches and levers.
I don't think you going to get your wishes, Aptera is not going to jeopardize the project for the sake of yours. But I agree with you. Hate what Tesla did by removing the levers behind the wheel and not giving us physical controls for the a/c, but it is what it is.
But please, by all means, do not cancel the order.
These vehicles are going to be so desirable that some people will be willing to pay double for them. You aren't happy with it, sell it.
Huge profit for you!
That's fine, you need not purchase an Aptera. Please feel free to get something that suits your preferences. If you had an early reservation, someone behind you will be happy that they moved up a slot! Apparently you don't understand that the engineering work on the Aptra delta (Production ready vehicle)is complete or nearly complete. There will be only minor changes or completion of designed features and of course remediation of safety issues found during testing. No new functionality.
A suggestion. I am Asian too, from PRC. Demands like you express don't work well in the U.S. You will get along better and get more of what you want by adapting a more gentile attitude.
Apparently you also don't realize that there are now over 38,000 reservations from people that are very anxious to buy this vehicle. I believe you are the one in the minority.
The difference between the Gamma and Delta is huge. The ripple effect in the design change as far as structural makes them two very different vehicles. The additional time needed to go through the validation process will add a fair bit. But yeah, a big difference. All good in my book.
I sent this to my step brother yesterday and he was thrilled that CPC is doing the body as they can do all the composites and aluminum. His 70's Ducati road bike engine [aluminum] was made by CPC. He is going to buy shares and place an order. I believe that they modified the front suspension design and will have caps for both. What interests me is how the subtle differences in the steering linkage and suspension may affect the pants in turns. They will make the belly pan along with subframe. I think that the front looks like it could hold a fronk but you do not see the sub frame crash system which will take up some of the space along with what bodddssssa had to say. Though not so sure about the inverters? It is a bit crowded in there for those too. The opening area could be just for assembly access and maybe repairs? You also do not see the carbon in that area; the interlink that makes the A pillar and other crash items. Maybe they remove the carbon crash area over the aluminum? They do have to consider pedestrian safety so the carbon may be part of that as it sort of looked like a spring board to me? My question is will there be a filter in there somewhere or in the cab?
As to your question Steve. If you look at the part of the rear that forms the deck of the back you can see a raised area on the rear on the left and right sides and it disappears as it reaches the B pillar. I think that will be where a hatch to the rear box will be. I do not think that is a latch in the back but an opening for ventilation out the back. The latch will have to be between that and the license plate module to fit our belief that the hatch will cover the tail. Which they have not shown a picture of... One thing my bro said is that in Italy they do not believe in big auto plants and Aptera fits with them perfectly. I can not believe they kept this under wraps for a year and a half. Must have been a lot of tongue biting!! Jason seemed to do that with his comment about it in your interview. One other thing. This might open up 3M to selling wraps to them where they were not so much before with the hand layup. With CPC behind this it really opens up some doors. The assembly process line just got a big change. I can see CPC helping create the euro version and manufacture it. Mitsubishi chemical probably has someone in Japan with this process as well for the carbon fiber and glass. Thinking two headlights and no mirrors on the side all spec'd with European parts and the Japanese wire harness. Mitsubishi chemical probably has someone in Japan with this process as well for the carbon fiber and glass. Another question just popped in. Who's the gentleman that waves as the gamma drives away and when did they send the gamma over there?
Regarding assembly in Italy, remember that the Aptera is assembled in San Diego in Sub-Assemblies. So what is produced at CPC will no doubt be assembled there into a manufacturing condition ready sub assembly before shipment. So picture the main body shells coming over assembled and bonded with the peripheral panels that are part of later assembly processes being shipped unattached.
those things 8:01 are the back wheel cover prety sure.
also there is no frunk because they are putting all the battery management and hvac items in that space
I'm digging the CPC guy saying it's the most innovative project in the last ten years.
Especially considering what CPC has been involced with over those 10 years!
They would need to hand assemble a few in Italy to check parts for fit and ease of assembly. It would waste a lot of time to ship parts and wait for feedback. Doing the crash testing there might be a good idea as well.
About the Gama testing, I think they are watching money to the penny; why waste any since they are battling for more money? They are watching every penny as to get to production! I'm not disappointed since I want real values given to me on the exact product I'm buying. They are being totally honest and that is a BIG value! About the assemble at CPC; perhaps he meant the body will be assembled since there are multiple pieces that are glued together, hence assemble it?
I also expect that there is no frunk because the front hood will not be made to open outside of servicing. That being a Sandy Munro push and following the lead of some Asia EV companies. If it's not going to be a meaningful frunk, don't have one, and if you don't have one, you don't need an opening hood. Just a removable panel. Save hinge, latch, pins, closures, and hood support weight.
You still need a way to refill your windshield washer fluid and check coolant level on an EV without taking your car apart.
The pale things coming in from the sides that you were uncertain of must be the rear wheel covers. Can’t imagine anything else anyway.
Rough translation: Welcome, everyone to this update on the CPC/Aptera collaboration. This is the birth of our company's most futuristic project.
Thanks!
Air at base of windshield is in a high pressure area , not low . NASCAR cars use this area for their engine air intake. They get a ram air effect.
Great job Steve! It's nice to have those fly-ins slowed down for time to look at more detail. Note that the rear hatch shown here is just the interior shell, the solar exterior is not included in these views. I love what we're seeing!!
you can see the wiring routing channels in the lower control arm.. The upper arm is probably lighter/cheaper to cast in that shape, and use an aero cover.
Crash testing must be done on the CPC body and frame. So, it will come after production tooling is brought on line. Carbon fiber on a cast aluminum frame will behave far differently than hand laid fiberglass on a steel tube frame.
One issue with electric cars is that any little creak is super loud and noticeable and one issue with fiberglass vehicles is that they creak a lot hopefully Aptera can resolve this
That box-space in the rear 'trunk' area is likely the junction for the charging port. Most likely come charging circuitry there to regulate charging speed/current/etc from the charging port directly behind it.
Upper and lower control arms were identified (I think by Sandy Munro) as lost foam aluminum castings. No way are thay stampings.
Aptera just said this on their video: Our plans around assembly in the US have not changed. The BinC will be assembled in Italy, with final assembly taking place in Carlsbad, CA. So the plan is to ship assembled bodies from Modena to Carlsbad.
That seems inefficient
Based on the video, it looks like they could assemble some at CPC by hand.
Then, once they work the bugs out, they probably can transfer the assembly in California. It would be quite inefficient to ship assembled shells.
After all, one of the CPC sale points is (CF)SMC reproducibility and specs reliability.
@@ApteraOwnersClub Shipping assembled shells would take more space in the container than stacking same parts. It does explain why the assembly line video doesn't show shell assembly.
The Italian was basically the same as the first bit of what he said when he switched to English.
I hope the continuing slow roll-out of the Delta reveal will include more of the interior detail, subsystems, solar panels, etc. I'm guessing there's more to come before the end of the year and the Q&A webinar in January. In your Q&A with Jason C Hill, he seemed to hint that the Delta yoke will look different (if I "read" him correctly). Maybe an interior detail reveal will show this.
I hope so too, but agree with Dr. Steve that some of that is not finished yet.
They will want to do fit and finish testing of all their external parts there in Italy where they are made. It would take far too long to send parts to the US for that kind of fine tuning of the parts.
Agree! The QA on those parts must be done in Italy. Could not afford the turnaround time or production delay if done in CA and then need to be sent back for remediation.
Regarding the assembly claim from Italy: an Aptera rep has already specified in the Aptera web site discussions that what will be assembled there is just the BinC.
That does raise a follow-on question of shipping volume though. Previous assumptions of simple, like parts being stacked like Pringles may not be correct. Bulky pre-assemblies means a lot more shipping volume per unit.
I can only imagine the truck traffic from San Diego to Carlsbad, with 40+ body assemblies going into the area of the assembly building.
It only makes sense that CPC will assemble in Italy in addition to stateside assembly. For one, the facility for assemble is simplistic enough to be anywhere in the world easily. And two, it would be more cost effective to supply Europe and the Middle East by limiting the emense fuel cost of cross continental shipping. Not to mention on a side note this car is a desert jewel.
CPC is probably so excited about Aptera because while they make supercar parts and chassis, those are in small numbers, and any high volume parts are probably just hoods or roofs or hatches, not entire vehicles.
CPC don't just form the CF panels, they also bond several pressings into a full structure. We've seen shots of this 'gluing' by robots in a previous video, and it's a job that Aptera is best leaving to them - they've already bought all the equipment, plus if it's good enough for Ferrari then they're doing it better than anyone could hope to achieve by replicating the processes elsewhere! If you want to see what is involved in CF then check out the Koenigsegg or Pagani factory (videos exist) - there's a reason those two companies don't make 10-20,000 cars a year.
The well in the rear of the cargo area will be for the 12v battery, since that is something which may need accessing at home, rather than relying on service tools to dismount the front panel to access, say, the inverters, or AC unit. Fluid check points will likely be over in the large opening in the scuttle panel across from the wiper point. Access to vehicle fuses may well also be there, and not in the cargo well, since all of the major stuff is at the front and there's no sense in running a load of cabling to the back just for that.
The frame idea makes sense if you consider the different battery options, plus may point towards a future battery-swapping or modular upgrade feature, something that would not be easy for a right-to-repair setup to do if the battery was structural - imagine if you could one day visit a battery-swap station like the brand Nio currently has, to swap your 25kWh unit for a new chemistry or solid-state item for a longer road trip?
Still, as Robert Llewellyn & Sandy Munro pointed out in a recent Fully Charged video, some of the battery tech currently in research is 10x-20x as energy-dense as today's best items. There are totally dry cylinder-style cells nearing availability. Sandy even speculated about "lightning in a bottle" capacitor tech that he sees ending up with a cellphone-sized rechargeable pack that you just drop into the vehicle and it gives 1000 miles of range.
Anyway, that's a bit off-topic, but having a frame gives options down the line for future adaptability. Aptera is supposed to be a generational vehicle, after all!
I am "all-in" on Aptera! Still, the more I hear/see the prototype development/refinement, the more real it gets.
The battery cage was known to be metal from the gamma reveal. The body on frame design makes it easier to change/upgrade batteries. The one item I'll be doing is making some locating studs for the wheels. Mounting wheels with bolts can be a major PITA. Studs are so much easier.
For real! Bolts are a horrible idea.
The pocket space in the back might be for the charging cable.
I do not think that this is the final Delta reveal, seeing that some of the other Jason Hill render pics are more complete. I think that they will get to the final reveal at New Years day. Steve said that the Delta design was complete except for a few fasteners and small details in a previous interview. They have most likely had this Delta CG work finished for several months now, and have moved onto the actual parts production to build real Delta Apteras. Personally, I am hoping that they are doing some sandbagging, and actually show a running Delta model at new years. Maybe that is dreaming. Potentially, they could be much further along, but want to make it look like they are waiting for a benevolent billionaire who will get serious good press for pulling Aptera's feet from the fire. (Elon? Jeff? Bill?, Bueller?).
I don't think this is a traditional body on frame config. The center frame rails are long and don't have cross supports so the frame is subject to torsion. I think Aptera is relying on the composite panels substantially for stiffness, which actually makes sense, to minimize weight.
The installed structural battery pack stiffness itself could eliminate the need for any cross supports.
The upper control arm is definitely a cast part, not stamped. I have noticed that none of their renders have ever showed the final solution to cover the control arms with aerodynamic covers. Some animations have conceptual covers, but we haven't seen a serious attempt at covering these yet. I think they have to cover at least the lower control arm. You can't have high voltage lines and coolant lines exposed to road debris. You can see channels cast into the lower arm to help dress the cables. No evidence of the anti-sway bar they said was so important to handling. Is it gone, or relocated? I am still wondering how they will efficiently transfer heat from the heat exchanger to the belly pan(s). Those parts look like cosmetic covers, unless they form the outer surface of a finned channel heat exchanger, in which case the cooling is much more active than passive. One last observation: the parts count has gone way up.
I have a similar concern about the belly pan. Are the parts shown rough representations of the surface radiators or are they skin pieces that the radiators might be bonded to? Surely they have not abandoned the skin cooling, I can't identify any alternative radiator systems.
The most encouraging to my thinking is the project has been being working together for about a year and a half with CPC and Aptera. Monro is excited about carbon fiber and assemble in European market might be planned for that area at a second or third plant. Maybe one in Taiwan, one in Carlsbad, and Euroland also.
> ". Maybe one in Taiwan, one in Carlsbad, and Euroland also."
Followed by either the east coast, or Canada, I would guess. The fact that CPC is doing so much of the body probably means that the Euro variant, and it's factory, is higher on the priority list than originally planned.
I have already gotten confirmation from Aptera that there WILL be heated seats. Just FYI
The space in the front will likely be used for things like wiper fluid and brake fluid access. It will have to be accessible but it won't be for storage like a traditional frunk.
I would love to see an update on the interior colors
I think it is a certantity the software is not done, the interior trim pieces are probably still being finalized...but i suspect the wiring harness, and other substantial under body components are done.
The extra pieces are rear quarter panels...
The lowered rectangle behind the rear wheel is simply reclaiming extra storage space. It is enclosed by the rear wheel pants. for tools?
I don't think they are showing the electronics that will be fitted in the hood area. On cars that have a frunk, if you lift the tub out, all that stuff is in there. The Aptera just has less space in front. I would have liked a spot up there for charging cables at least. I keep Autosocks a compressor and tire pressure gauge in my frunk. If the hood won't open I wonder where the wiper fluid fill will be.
Since it is seriously snowing right now, I hope there will be clearance inside the wheel covers to put on AutoSocks. They are pretty good low speed traction for cars that don't have clearance for chains.
I agree. We will see a more detailed digital design of Delt by the end of the year, but not a physical Delta. There is more to show in a complete Delta digital design, I am interested to see if there will be an additional covering on the struts and connectors for the hub motors. Great video as always.
I think the projection behind the rear wheel is the mounting point for the rear wheel fairing cover.
I would rather they take their time and get Delta right the first time. I for one, am not expecting a 2024 or even 2025 delivery date and that's just fine. The world has never seen a car like Aptera, building the first of the next generation of personal ground transportation will take a long time. Trust me, it's going to be well worth the wait.
@@NoorElahi1776 If they don't get production started in 2023, they are in a heap of trouble. Or at least have the funding in hand to start production. Funding sounds like their primary hold back. Testing and final design appear to be on track. Supply chain issues could present problems, but they have said they are working those issues as best they can without a solid production schedule. Otherwise, their cash burn rate is going to kill them unless they can start making some money soon. They can't wait until 2025. As an aside, my reservation is about 25,000, so I am not expecting to receive my car until 2024 or 2025 if that is what you meant, they yes, i agree.
Seems like a lower structure in aluminum would require a gigapress to manufacture. Forged carbon would be just as strong but would not have the heat dissipation of aluminum.
I understand that the render is just a render but the wheel pants starting at 6:33 appear to suspend the rules of physics and pass right through the control arms.
It makes you wonder about the easy removal of the wheel covers. Perhaps the part with the holes for the control arms unbolts from the rest of the cover. Of course that would still leave that inner piece stranded.
I know you can't rush perfection but damn we need this car now I'm tired of waiting!
I hope the UI looks better than it did in the prototypes
They are still failing to show a clear view of the back end and the new(?) rear hatch runout to the back edge (or whatever). Gotta keep us all hungry for the next reveal, I suppose.
A "frunk" would be a great place for a spare tire.
I’m certain that the assembly in Italy refers to containerizing all the separate parts into an optimized form that facilitates both shipping as well as handling at the Carlsbad assembly plant.
That would make sense from a shipping point of view, but that also means they would need to purchase the robots to do the assembly of the composite parts in California. At this point in time, it might be less expensive to buy the chassis pre-assembled and pay a little more for shipping than to go through the learning curve of dispensing epoxy adhesives and assembling these parts. That is assuming CPC has some robots that can be configured for Aptera.
The placement of that air duct might cause problems when it comes to building a right hand drive version.
Italian guy speaks English with an Afrikaans accent?
I would love to have that storage cubby under the load floor to carry the jack and lug wrench that it won't come with.
This is a far more complex structure than their original plans. Mass production will make that economical, but raises the capital requirements of starting up. They seem to have shifted their strategy from Sandy Munro's "crawl, walk, run..." to one of "hit the ground already running. " This is probably because of the surprisingly high reservation rate (have we hit 40000 yet?), but it still makes me a bit nervous.
My guess is that shift from low production to high production cost us about a year delay from re-engineering everything for higher throughput
Totally agree with efficiency validation. Seems like a slam-dunk, and would be a huge feather in Aptera's cap. I'm also curious how hard this thing pulls at freeway speeds.
I wouldn't be surprised if they cant hand build some delta's while they wait for funding as you suggest. I suspect a sizable percentage of that needed funding to reach production will be going towards the tooling cost for CPC group to tool up to make all of apteras needed body components.
Incredible break down as always. I couldn't agree more with the two tone making it look slimmer again. I really hope that is how the production vehicle turns out, I really didn't like the cubby look, the sleeker look is amazing!
3:30 I think that will have a cover piece on it also it looks like cast metal to me. 6:00 The frunk would be very small plus they would need a latch and hinges. It's probably got mechanical stuff in there like power steering and power brake stuff. 9:40 That could be for a 12v battery for lights, instrument lighting, radio etc.
The picture that I took of the front without the solar panel at Fully Charged when Chris Anthony removed it was packed with cables and an inverter. There was no space for a frunk.
An important change is that the solar hood is likely standard now, and possibly the solar hatch. What do you think the nose is made of? Doesn't appear to be pigmented plastic so would need to be wrapped and wrap doesn't have much longevity at the nose of vehicles, especially not a vertically exposed section. Also, maybe the deltas can't be hand built until Aptera pays whatever price for tooling for the CPC moulds.
While I'd prefer to have the hood and hatch as standard, I suspect that they will continue to have them as options. There are enough people complaining about having to have the minimum solar already (they park under cover, etc).
I don't think the solar hood is optional anymore, but it's possible...
the rear bottom box covered in the wheelpant is at least for safety in case of getting hit from back..
Thomas Vecchi gave a brief introduction in Italian, but then translated it into English, continuing with the speech 🇮🇹👍
I have worked with composites most of my life this is a beautiful design. Metal where it’s needed composite where it’s not the upper wheel arm the new one looks to me a hell of a lot less expensive to manufacture.
Hey Steve, I was looking at the tail and that storage area you were wondering about which is right behind where the license plate will go, and I'll bet it's for a jack and lug wrench and or perhaps a can of flat repair?
8:06 Some kind of impact-absorbing foam, maybe, for side impact protection?
9:50 Could that be where the NACS charger unit goes, with the actual port just above behind the license plate? (It would also be very well placed to store cables / adaptors, though).
17:00 A lot of F1 teams are in the UK, for some reason
18:00 For the European variant, assembling it at CPC might make a lot of sense
Also the tire repair kit.
The lack of interior of fine details seems like it shouldn't be it yet. They have nothing about the interior and have been clear the console (cup holders) is changing. At 8:20 you are seeing the panels above the of the rear wheelpants fly in (the video jumps backward and forward in time as it cuts)
I think it would be better to ship the the other parts to Italy and have CPC hand assemble the first 100 or more Apteras to make sure the full assembly goes smooth. Perhaps they could crash test them in Italy also.
The uniform white panels like the front bumper and nose area are probably the plastic parts mentioned in the design interview.
Thomas Vecchi stated that Aptera is their “most innovative project of the last ten years” which is 100% accurate. He did not state that Aptera was the most “exciting” of the last ten years. Also I’m fairly certain that what was said in Italian is the same intro he gave in English.
What was exciting 10 years ago?
Electric hybrid super cars?
You're some kinda master detective ninja. Anyhoo I said as much in your last vid. I doubt we will have any deliveries next year
Most of Aptera's Ambassadors, investors, and reservation holders are technical people. Publication on efficiency is critical. I agree that preliminary test data based on Gamma efficiency results are critical to future investing.
As an engineer and sometime program manager, I disagree, Can't waste money and time testing a prototype that has changed so significantly from gamma to delta. Especially on a tight budget with a small staff.
I agree with you as Gamma was a point in time in development. How well did Gamma do in reaching the calculated parameters? Assuming that it was built to the 400 mi AWD specifications at the time with the basic solar package, how does it perform? Gamma is a stepping stone but if they are not learning from Gamma, it becomes a very expensive prototype. Remember that Gamma didn't cost $30,000 to build, it was many times that. If Gamma falls short of the calculated expectations, that is fine to a point, as they can show how Delta will be an improvement. If it is wildly off, the changes in Delta will not account for that and the public will find out once the EPA efficiency rating is done. If they are wildly off, they will not have an issue with meeting production volumes... but I seriously doubt that they will be wildly off. Testing Gamma will cost money. Does it have to be perfect? No, but Gamma is a huge marketing tool to show investors that Aptera is more than a cool looking vehicle. Once an investor's attention has been captured, showing them how Gamma performs compared to the specs at the time, definitely will help seal the deal. Even if Gamma is only able to get 325 miles on a charge with AWD and real world driving, that is still way better than anything (at the 40kWh battery size) on the market or in development outside of Aptera. It also helps them calibrate their model to bring Delta closer to their goals. If Aptera has not built a full solar package and tested it on a 40kWh mule, that would say a great deal especially since they have said they are starting low production volumes of their solar panels. They should be able to say that a full solar package was tested in San Diego, CA with X number of sunlight hours and charged the vehicle or test mule with a 40kWh battery that was at Y% full and added Z miles to. If we wait for Delta for testing, we will be here next year, still waiting. Today, they need about $100M to go into production in 9 months. ($50M just to make it until September and $50M for tooling what is needed to deliver 40 vehicles / day. Realistically, I really think they need more than $150M and Sandy Munro has said even a higher number in his videos.)
@@yanpingyang9028 As a recently retired corporate engineer I can only speak from my personal experience. I always told my engineers, programmers, sales, and marketing team we need to show corporate leadership what we have behind our curtain so they keep funding us. I successfully did this as one of six founders of my second IT startup that went public on the NYSE before being sold in 2002.
During my first startup, I went broke because I refused to share with the investment community my technical team's raw results thinking it would be better to wait for a preproduction product. Because of this thought process, the VCs stopped funding.
Welcome in CPC-Aptera ? Now that sounds like there'll be a European production line :)
Couldn't be happier, US built vehicles never had great fame over here 😀
Would be cool and even a bit sensible to at least produce the models to (eventually) be sold in Europe in Modena. It would make for shorter transport ways over here...
It seems to me that having an assembly facility in Europe would make sense in getting Aptera into the European market and generating support and maybe investment.
I think Aptera could be popular in Europe, and why not have CPC assemble and sell Apteras in Europe?
But that is just a speculative thought...
They can partner with red bull f1 and give it wings.
The upper ball joint on the spindle (steering knuckle) is canted out at the top at an extreme angle on the upper control arm. This explains why the wheel-cover ends rise and fall so much when turning. Normally the ball joint is vertical or canted in a little.
does the extreme cant angle make for a smaller turning radius?
@@kimbowilco That could be the reason they do it. With the outrigger front wheels it might take this geometry to make tighter turns without as much steering travel; perhaps so the wheel covers don't hit. My first tune would be to make close-fitting covers because I'm not a fan of the look. Hopefully the aerodynamics are worth all of the other sacrifices.
They can assembly it in my driveway.😋
Gamma is not useful for efficiency because so much changes with Delta -- for example, the external cooling plate. I doubt the Gamma has very much range at all. Weight is also probably not representative.. Aero will be different, based on details, and details matter.
Concerning cooling, (ref 12.38 or so), I do not think they will use fan to cool the cooling plate. Even stationary, the flat plate will be able to reject substantial heat. Air will naturally flow up and take heat away. Fan will cool interior, including electronics.
I'm guessing Deltas may indeed be made in Modena. Close to Elaphe. Plenty of automotive infrastructure. This avoids Aptera (San Diego) needing to add personnel way before production. Ten Deltas? Fifteen? BTW, I am willing to travel there, if they need observers!!
Cooling system does indeed use a fan for times when stationary airflow is not sufficient
ruclips.net/video/BamyFDhtbqI/видео.html
@@ApteraOwnersClub Steve. Yeah, I heard this before, but I still find it hard to believe the complexity of cooling the plate with both interior and exterior air would be worth it. Maybe air across the HVAC heat exchanger could supplement the heat rejection to the cooling plate, but almost all the heat will go out the plate, no mater what. I need a picture. Maybe the Delta reveal will have real engineering info.
Posable assembly for Europes market. The two parts I believe are the rear subframe on either side of the rear wheel.. Reference money! At the end of that video she stated that the Government loan was in the final stages and possibly will include rebate dollars as well. This is more likely given the political timing.
They need to get something into the hands of customers right away. I don't want the solar panels. Instead, I want them to focus on the mechanicals of things like air conditioning, and heaters and making sure the battery pack is used efficiently, and the door and the windshield wiper designs are robust.
The solar panels and all the complex software needed for recharging the battery pack can be a follow-up feature.
Please just get this into the hands of customers now to get early feedback.
Thomas Vecchi's comments in Italian were immediately followed by the English translation of the same words as he's bilingual.
Knowing they still need $50 million really makes me wonder where are all the rich billionaires. Any of them could easily afford to help Aptera. Seems like a no brainer thing to do if they were really as into helping with electrification and environmental issues as some of them claim to be. Also surprised none of the other auto-manufacturers are investing (or even just outright trying to acquire) Aptera. No automaker right now has a viable, actually good range/efficieny, small sub 30-35k starting price car other than say the Leafs/Bolts of the world. So you'd think other manufacturers, hell even Tesla, would have been chomping at the bit to get Aptera under their umbrella. I really don't get it.
(Delta)^^n
I don't remember seeing a metal frame before Delta. I wonder if the weight is going up?
18:00 All “skateboards” (where suspension, battery, & body panel, etc., components are mounted) are always metal, unless carbon fibre with embedded metal mounting points. Since CPC is making all the (quickly formed, stackable, & easily shipped) forged carbon fibre (FCF) parts for USA assembly, all the related development “work up” needs to happen there. This is excellent news. If $50M is truly all that is needed for full production, the only thing holding that back is recessionary macros fears which shouldn’t be that difficult to overcome given the demonstrated advanced stages of completed development, integration with CPC, & already sufficient (& increasing) pre-sales necessary for almost immediate post-production net revenues. This is definitely NOT an Arcimoto or Lucid story, but more (from production design approaches) like Boxable where factory designs accommodate full production rates as soon as tooling adjustments are completed on the first few 100s of delivered articles. Like Boxable, they will be adding robotic assembly within a few years of initial sales WITHOUT major changes to the factory space other than replicating it to accommodate increased manufacturing.
@@Crunch_dGH Thanks, It seems more of a function follows form on our Aptera than most other units where the first really big development is a drivable, or near, framework is displayed. I just don't seeing that in this program.
The weight has been a thought of mine all along. In the Slingshot world, we had always been told that anything over 1750 lbs pushed the vehicle out of the autocycle class and would have to follow a whole new set of specs. I'm sure the Aptera weight is far in excess of 1750 pounds.
A quote from a quick Inet search talking about the Slingshot: "The mass issue is particularly important, because federal autocycle guidelines call for a 1,750-pound weight limit, a bogey that would be tough to meet once a few accessories are added.Jan 14, 2020". I'm sure this would have been addressed long ago by Aptera, just never mentioned.
The hood looks to be made of 2 main peices with the inner piece looking like the size and shape of the possible frunk void. It also has a hand sized cavity in the front center where the mechanism for opening may be.
Thanks Steve. At FC, Chris told me that there will be support for towing at the rear. That takes a hard point for a receiver etc. I do not see any hard point in these renders for towing.
There's a whole lot missing in these renders.
Still kinda miss the logos. But I'm okay with losing the frunk. The frunk looked to be nearly worthless in the first place and it looks like they added extra rigidity where it used to be as can be scene with that plate they put on top with a bar going across the middle.
Chris Anthony said "No frunk, but there is a big trunk". Most frunks are pretty useless.
@@tims8603 yeah to me the only EV brand with an effective frunk is Tesla, but Tesla is also a luxury brand. Still, with a hatch as big as Aptera has, literally big enough to lay down in, I doubt that's a concern. Seriously, that means that hatch is nearly as long as my minivans with one of the back seats down.
@@Skylancer727 Agree.
So if 5000 reservation holders put $10k in Aptera ... they could produce now ! .. i just did
Thank you....
Wonder how difficult it will be to change tires/fix flats. That rear cover looks to be four major pieces. Also 2024 production sounds closer to reality after funding, assembly, testing etc.
Hopefully at the january reservation holders meeting they will be announceing final pricing. With inflation and the CPC bodies I expect that they will have to increse the pricing, but by how much?
Will Gamma return to the US?
The number one concern I have from this video is the huge space for the air vent near the windshield. That is going to collect leave and pine needles like no other. I already have to clean that spot all the time on my other cars, and this car seems to have a gigantic space there that will be really deep and hard to clean if it stays how it looks.
As someone who lives in Northeast I have slight concern for that, but it looks well designed, flush with surrounding surfaces, wind should blow away most debris before it finds it's way in past the screen
I think that's a problem with all modern cars. It's part of the trade off with efficiency. Back in the middle of the 20th century, windshield wipers weren't hidden like that.
You won't get any leaves if you don't buy an Aptera
@@StewartWright if you park it in the sun, than it won't be in the garage...so it WILL get leaves in there. I'm in the PNW, so "in the sun" means "near trees".
I don't plan on solar and if that is an issue, I'll park it under a screen. My house has solar and can use those solar panels to charge this car. I think the solar panels in the car are impractical at this stage and are a dangerous distraction.
Nice tint on windows.
I imagine, that in the long run, where assembly will be done will be dictated by the cost of shipping. Assembled bodies would take up much more space than individual panels which could be bundled together in a more compact form.
As to those "ghosts panels" I believe they are the upper parts of the skirt.
I really like the new color scheme. It makes the Aptera look slimmer and sleeker.
Thanks for your analysis' Steve they are very helpful in understanding the complexities of these marvelous vehicles and help to soothe the anxiousness of waiting for our very own.
Wiper controls and high and low light control most cars can do it automatically
Could the little storage space in the back be there for the accessories you would need to use non-Tesla charging stations?
Looks like it is right where the camera assembly is, so maybe a compartment to hold both charger assembly and camera assembly, and accessible through trunk sknce they want these things to be upgradable
9:30 Also, the mounting structure for the future trailer hitch.
I expect Aptera will hand assemble a few test vehicles with all final production design OEM parts, because a lot of potential investors are waiting to see the crash test results. This test needs to be completed ASAP for holdout investors and potential buyers to commit.
At Fully Charged Live, they are planning Q2 for crash testing. I presume those are the vehicles that the CPC guy was talking about assembling (presumably they only need dummy batteries of the same weight + structure rather than real batteries).
@@WyndStryke Those batteries are structural components, so real (but poor charge holding quality rejects) will need to be used.
cowl induction...used on muscles cars in the 60s.
Right. High pressures ahead of windscreens. I had rear facing inlets on my ‘50s era hotrod “bubble” hood.
Hey why was I not invited to the ambassador thing how do I do I need to be official ambassador
dude, that funding page says 236 days left. So if that lady really meant finishing financial objectives then you know when to expect the efficiency and crash test cars to be built at the earliest
Is the "gray Areas" on the nose/wheel covers & rear wheel assembly going to be the same as what's on some of the trucks/ SUVs today that after a month they become "chalky" & unable to hold a wax so they look terrible? I certainly hope not
I suspect that the rear opening you are discussing around the 10 minute mark in your video is an air channel. So from the inlet vent in the front, over (or through?) the battery pack, and then up and out the rear hatch structure. My guess is that the thing you think is a latch is part of the vent system to allow the hot air to escape.