Fixing Our Lime MISTAKE - Restoring a Stone Building
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2023
- We made a mistake and used the wrong type of lime on our stone walls. So it's time to rectify it. It's time for a classic undo, redo. We'll also talk a little bit about some of the reading and research that led us to make the decisions we did.
We'll talk about the difference between hot mixed lime and natural hydraulic lime and why we're choosing quicklime. And stick around to the end where we'll do an experiment with slaking our own lime which can be turned into mortars, plasters or natural paints.
www.makedogrow.com
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our elderly neighbour who was in the building trade his whole life (apart from when war interrupted) for over 70 years once told us how the builders started a new area of land here in our part of the south eastern New Forest.There is a clay plain only 1-2 feet below the topsoil for miles around here so when a block was marked out for building pre WW2, the first man called in was the water diviner. Once he had determined the best place, a well was dug.
After that, next to the well a deep 12-18 inch trench was dug, which was at least 4 yards long. This was where the lime was to be slaked for the whole block. Sand was brought in & piled alongside too so the mix would depend on which of the jobs were being done on the day. The lime pit was refreshed as needed and as it was next to the well, water was always on hand. We live in a house that was built using lime mortar that is 100 years old this year & if we have a heavy goods train along the nearby line go past we can feel the house vibrate. However it causes no cracking/disturbance problems to the fabric of the building.
We are happy to see traditional proven building methods being used again.
When I was a little boy, I remember that my grandfather used to make slaked lime by digging a hole about 2x2 meters wide and deep, pouring quicklime into it like you do in a barrel and pouring water on it with a garden hose and letting it react chemically, covering it boards and also let it work for a few days, maybe weeks, and then when he needed to plaster the walls of the house, he just scooped it into a bucket - it had the consistency of soft butter and he could use it on a damp wall. I know that the slaked lime could last even for a long time, he just checked that it did not dry out and added water from time to time to maintain the density of the lime.
2x2 metres?! Fair play to your grandfather if he mixed and used 150 tonnes+ of lime
My father worked in a lime stone quarry he use to make lime wash for the house (out side ) putting peaces of lime stone in a bucket for a day or so and you had lime wash cost nothing look good
Same here
@@lukeh3020 Of course, the pit was not completely full, I think it was deep for safety reasons. When the chemical process of extinguishing the lime takes place, it can be said as if it were being boiled...it bubbles and it is dangerous if it hits the skin of the body. Yes, a lot of lime was needed, because their house burned down and the entire house had to be re-plastered + at that time the walls were also painted with lime. It was in 1983 in the former Czechoslovakia.
My parents did the same when they were building our house in Lithuania back in mid-90s. They dug a hole of about 5x5 meters, at least 2 meters deep. My dad then used to scoop up as much lime as he needed. They used the lime in a mix with sand, saw dust and water. They built a frame and poured our walls layer by layer, a bit like you would pour foundation, but the walls are two storeys tall.
Having spent the last few years striping rough stone Cumbrian slate walls back and re-plastering with lime in the uk, managing shrinkage and suction can be tricky - we found drenching the walls prior to daubing out was key, almost hosing them down! Another good trick is to collect a small bucket of small ‘pinning’ stones and wedge these into any gaps to reduce the amount of mortar shrinkage. Keep ‘mist’ spraying it with a bottle for 2 to 3 days and bashing it with a dust pan brush to get it to tighten up - chemically it’s not drying its reacting with the CO2 in the atmosphere to sublime slow is better - keep it wet. 2 to 3 weeks between coats
All I have to say is hats off to all the people who have chateaus or people who have manor houses or farmhouses and are renovating them. You all should give yourself more credit even if you are cursing behind the scenes lol you still get up make videos take the time to edit and get up and start all over again. You have much more stamina and willpower than you give yourself credit for. By the way I believe you guys are doing a fabulous job. Much love from Oklahoma USA Jackie 🇺🇸💖
People are still posing as you on RUclips I just got a text 7 minutes ago from your channel.
I didn't see your tendency to purposively explain technicalities coming. Your channel is evolving into an entertaining, informative place to be, and I'm always glad to see that another one is out for viewing.
Some examples of how we used lime:
Thinner for a wall white wash. Like a putty or paste for large openings in adabo walls (mud, dung, grass/copra/straw, lime), pliable and soft for plastering or textured wall effects.
Mixtures will vary depending on construction style and period. Older homes did not have damp proofing, base foundations/concrete footings, oil/tar parging, dimpled membranes, french drains. Hence damp, humid, frequent cracking and settling. Lots of seasonal movement & repairs. To reduce settling we added underpinning, foundation bridges or bases. Perimeter drains were added. Eavetroughs and downspouts were installed to move water away from the house.
On stone wall interiors, we filled in gaps with thicker, denser slag. Then wire brush or point if the effect was to highlight the stonework. If the desired effect was a textured finish (stone not visible), the walls were filled in stages: cleaned, filled, rough finish, thiner 2nd layer, smooth 3 rd layer. Level, square, smooth were all relative terms during the fix.
Like your approach. Educate, experiment, evaluate. Learn by doing 1, 2, 3 or 4 times as needed.
You could almost hear the building take a deep breath of relief with all that concrete gone
I really appreciate hearing your thought process in choosing materials and methods. It's continuously impressive, to me, how large an undertaking this renovation is, and how tenacious you both are in bringing it to fruition. Inspiring too. As soon as I finish watching this, I'm off to put triple-thick, peel-stop primer on the cellar walls. Fun times here too! :)
Bummer that you had to undo some of the work. Good that you only lost a half day. Now you can be satisfied that you've got it right and it will serve you well for many years. I really admire your dedication to all your projects. You're going to have a beautiful place when you are finished. Although finished is such a sketchy word when you're a homeowner.
Best to you both!
Thanks for spreading some of the information about hot lime technics. We used hot lime mortar to rebuild a 54 foot stone wall on our 1891 Romanesque Revival mansion. We might be the only two channels that are DIY people rebuilding with hot lime. We are a little behind you so are looking forward to all your plaster experiments.
It is good to know you take the time and effort to correct a mistake. You are great
Love Kris Harbour! I remember that episode. He has some amazing woodworking skills, too.❤
Hi Guy! Hi Kylie! Been following your new channel since the beginning. I love all your videos and am in awe of all your hard work! You are pouring your heart and soul into renovating your house and you work so hard on it that I hope you never sell it. No one will ever love that house as much as it will deserve to be loved after you've finished renovating it, only you guys will know all the pain and sweat that have gone into every nook and cranny of that house! Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with all of us that like watching other people work while sitting on the sofa doing nothing! 😄😄😄
You are so patient, determined and curious.
Kudos to you and your work ethic.
Kris Harbors channel is a true inspiration. He has accomplished so much on his land, built machines and has incredible woodworking skills.
One step forward one step back but learning all the time well done guys
Top work! Loving the videos
Good informative episode. Thanks!
My thought when Guy was stirring the lime mix, 'Witches brew!' 😄
Admire you guys so much! Your hard work, your good common sense, and willingness to learn and research. Blessings I wish for you!
I am intrigued by the lime saga. Living in New Zealand, the land shakes frequently. Plastering with lime is such an amazing idea. I think the building trade here use cement for just about everything. I am going to do some in-depth research on the subject. Thanks. I admire your can-do attitude. Such a refreshing change from the ‘dive-in no thought’ a lot of DIY RUclipsrs have. Love your videos
I’m not sure lime is elastic enough to cope with the tremors you get (the last one was a biggie!), but I’d be fascinated to hear if there’s any research on the subject
look into building with hempcrete - this is the future and hemp is a wonder crop
I’m amazed at your patience! Your projects will all be wonderful. You are taking your time and I think everything will be beautiful
Kylie and Guy, thank you for this informative video😊
Invaluable stuff here. Cheers guys!
Great JOB, GREAT, Project, Great TEAM.
Very interesting. Loved the video
I salute you guys, you are doing an amazing work, plus you probably saving to lots of people trouble by sharing your experience. 👍
As soon as you mentioned slaking your own lime I thought of Chris Harbour - what a great content maker.
Well done. Very nice. Respect.
I have so much admiration for you two
As usual your videos are packed with info (thanks Kylie for all your research!) and followed up with “how to” … thanks Guy… thoroughly enjoying your sharing of this mammoth project ! Durban 🇿🇦
That was an epic deconstruction (loved the music in the background).
I was always told that when putting any sort of cement mix onto a wall you spray the wall with water first so that it does not suck the moisture out of the mix too quickly, is this not possible with lime mortar. I wish I was 20 years younger or had less pain, I would love to do what you are doing
A marathon; but the building will thank you for it! Thanks for the vid; a joy as always. We have sandstone here in the Ariege and have to use Chaux vive. ps I have a couple of ancient recipes and one involves adding a bucketful of waste fat, butchers trimmings, skin scrapings (not sure what that is!) or any household scraps that have gone bad with a proportion being tallow ends - ships grease...use soapy water from the wash tub and cover with a board while it boils. Next day the pot will be full of spongy whiteness..
I've enjoyed learning about lime! 🤔😎
Finca life (Andy and Sharon in Spain)RUclipsrs slake lime as well. Always seem to have batch on hand.
love Chris Harbour. He also uses vegetable oil instead of petrol in his car. I am always impressed that you two do everything the right way. May take you longer to accomplish but it's a pleasure watching you work. Jane, Philadelphia
Sucks undoing work, but it is the right decision. Great video.
I'm 68 years old and I remember all the procedures during renovations in Argentina ... Thank God you are using safety gear... they never used anything in those days ..that is why people used to die young.
Great use for one of your water tanks/plunge pool.
It's a beautiful thing! ♥
Fascinating.
É tradição na Beira Baixa, Alentejo e Algarve, saber trabalhar com cal viva. Ainda hoje as casas antigas são pintadas com cal, tanto no interior como no exterior. É comum vermos as mulheres das aldeias pintarem as paredes exteriores das casas e os muros, todos os anos.
We agree on the NHL 3.5 being less breathable than just lime, from our own usage it still does breath and allow moisture to pass. We know this because as the moisture evaporates it leaves behind mineral salts that are contained in the land, fortunately this has not affected the lime. Our usage is different to yours because we are renovating a cave, so we decided on NHL because it is less likely to give due to the ground the cave is dug from, therefore giving the structure more strength.
Cal Viva here locally in Spain is sold in rock form, we couldn't find it as a powder. We can also buy Hydrated Lime and that is in powder form and more or less ready to go as it has been slaked then dried and bagged.
A tip that we have recently been given is to save the water from slaking and store it to use as a `size` before limewashing as it helps the process on raw lime walls.
Totally agree that there’s a time and place for NHL (we’ve used nhl5 for our limecrete floor) … and in fact cement.
It’s the dogmatic (or agenda led) advice that we’re not fans of.
We’ve just recently started using hydrated lime … though almost everything we’ve read says not to. We find it just as good as quicklime, and more convenient and safer. We’re saving our two barrels of slaked lime for putty repairs and limewash I g 😃
@@MAKEDOGROW Some people are too stuck in their ways, after doing your due diligence all you can do is go with what you believe is right.
@@MAKEDOGROW Learning that hydrated lime quality is much dependent on the manufacturing date. Have you noticed this?
@@naUoNmaI definitely! We’ve had a couple of bags go off from sitting around our place. Now any that we don’t use straight away we throw in a barrel, add water, and store as putty.
We’ve also noticed a big difference between brands, and perhaps the packaging they use.
Very interesting indeed.😊
Very interesting.
Wonderful learning episode on lime..
My gram was Ukrainian
She had beautiful fruit and veggies gardens..a little different. But my mom would
Get her bags of lime every spring
It did wonders.
Just a little note:.
Thanks from ms USA
MUCH LUV AND KEEP ON TRUCKIN!!!
Growing up I had to "paint " the tree trunks about 3-4 feet from the ground with a lime water, to protect them from bugs and other insects apparently.
A great vlog as always and very educational 👍 it was great to hear you give Chris a shout out, his building are fabulous 😊 when Guy was saying that Chris was blonkers and then said that you were bonkers as well, it popped into my mind that you are twice as bonkers than Chris because there is two of you 😂 pmsl, sorry but it made me giggle, probably shouldn’t wat h youtube after midnight lol 😊👍🤩
I love that you also watch Kris Harbour!! :D
First of all, you're walking about in tshirts like it's no biggie and birds are chirping like it's summer and here in NL it's about 9C.
Love the timelapse concernerning cleaning the walls, great mix and perfectly edited.
Admire the hard work and I agree, the lime mix is a safer choice to go for since it has proven it's value.
All the best going onwards from here.
This footage is from a couple of years ago, and later in the year if I remember correctly. We’re currently still wearing jumpers most days, though we had a lovely 19C day last weekend 😀
I love watching you guys you're such a wonderful inspiration and source of knowledge. I have just bought a schist barn in Castelo Branco and was wondering if this lime process would also work on that stone?
Olá Michelle, It's really recommended to learn portuguese early on so you can make acquaintances with the local craftsman. You definitely should use lime in everything you do in your house. Schist, slate or xisto (as we call it in portugues) is a very soft stone so it requires a lower lime (calcium oxide) content in the mix otherwise it'll crack the stone itself. When you slack the lime you are adding hidrogen to the mix so it becomes a paste very easy to handle. Later on, instead of drying through evaporation, lime absorbs carbon dioxide from the air and incorporates it in it's mineralogy forming calcium carbonate (hidrogen is released to the atmosphere), aka lime stone.
One must match the hardnes of the stone from the building to the same hardness of the resulting limestone and that's where the local craftsman get in.
Industry standards have fallen ridiculously in the past 50 years and the categories of NHL 5, 3.5 and 2 aren't accurate anymore. Supposedly for a xisto building you should use nhl 3.5 in all weather exposed walls (including chimneys amd floors) and NHL 2 everywhere else. NHL 5 is for property walls, basements and such structures that require extra structural strength.
You may wanna stick to this Baptistas brand of quicklime that they are using ,if they had good results with it.
Life will be hard without the language trust me, my wife struggled a lot due to friendships, even when people are fluent in english. You can find free classes by the city hall. Hope this will help and good luck with your project. Cumprimentos
The hardness of cement is an issue when repairing brownstones here in BKLN. Most just use Portland cement and that will crack. 😀Eric.
From what I've seen, to avoid that shrinkage and drying too fast, you should spray the area with water before applying. I hope it might help 😊
Spray water on the dry stone, then after 30 min or so spray it once again THEN start your pointing.Then the old stones are saturated so that the lime morter will dry slower. Would that help, perhaps?
A crucial point I would say!
We got an old oil barrel from our builders 25 euros, cleaned it out with cat litter which absorbed the remnents of the oil. We had room to slake 2 of the bags of Cal Vida. Made ours over a month ago and not got round to using any yet.
Very interesting once again, thank you. My idling brain (addling?) wondered if you could cook some boiled eggs for supper…just a thought. 🇨🇦
Thanks a lot for the information and especially since I'm in the progress buying an old stone building myself, but wouldn't it be much easier to make retaining walls with insulation and keeping the stone walls original? Of course, you'll lose some inside space but would save a lot of time.
I have learned a lot .😂🤣❤️❤️
Missed Kylie’s Bye!
When pointing, filling the bigger gaps with smaller stones would help with solidity, I believe. It's quite time consuming though I would guess.
Our 390 plus year old granite stone house has massively thick walls (60-80 cm) and likely deep footings in the earth. It has been re-pointed with extreme care within the last 25 years or so, and I am almost certain that portland cement and sand mortar was used. There are places in the stone that seem to wick moisture during heavy rains but it dries quickly. I am wondering if the breathability of the stone itself is allowing the moisture to escape. Also, plain cement seems to be water permeable because cement mortar seams where water pools seep quite easily. I've had to chip out and replace the old mortar, using a new mortar mix with a capillary blocker or mortar plasticizer. But even some large granite blocks are permeable if exposed to enough water. That requires a hydrophobic silicone treatment to repel water, and so on....such it is in an old stone house.
By doing so your locking the humidity behind the hidrophobic application, remember the problem is the foundation keeps whicking the humidity. You're creating an environment for funguses behind those same surfaces. Portland absorbs water slowly and releases it also slowly. Hope it helps.
@@buteos8632 I only want to seal the seams where the big blocks of stone meet. I don't want or need the entire wall to be a hydrophobic barrier, just the seams. How to do that?
I'd love to see you folks connect with "Little Spanish Farmstead"...they are 8 hours east of you in Castellón, Spain. They also, are working on a lovely tiny stone home and they are so dear. Their property is really pretty like yours and they are working hard.
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
The RUclips channel Portugal from Scratch makes lime plaster putty to use in her renovation of an old barn into her home. She uses all natural building methods also.
Hi thank you for this lime video, I have found it really useful for a future project. Quick question...When you did the slaked lime in the blue barrel, what were the quantities of water to quick lime please?
There are smaller trowels so that you get cleaner lines, look an The Indie Project. Theo did a really good job. Congrats to you for doing something new.
I watch Theo & Bea and all through their lime & pointing. Now they are moving to their new property
I really enjoy your videos. You are very articulate, Guy. But there are too many bunches......"a bunch of water"? 😄
I hate to undo and redo work that I've done because I made a mistake. If you were doing a house flip, the cement would have looked fine when it was sold, and it would be a few years down the road before the walls started having problems. But this is going to be your forever home, you take pride in your work, and you want it to still be in great shape 100 years from now. And the way you're going at it, it will be.
It’s so crazy how it bubbles and gets hot, like a science experiment....
There is a you tuber in Italy her channel is called dreaming of a chateau. They are a sweet young couple renovating a 100 plus year old home on the Lake Como area. They were repairing some wall damage and they were using cement because their neighbor suggested it. I think the wall looks like the walls in your place. I have watched every episode on your channel and its clear why you use lime to 'dob' the spaces and repair the holes. I was going to suggest she watch your videos and see why filling with cement is not good but honestly I am not a builder, I don't live in a place that constructs homes like in Europe so I wasn't even sure I should be offering my suggestions to anyone.
Cement is moisture permeable, which is why a moisture barrier is stalled before a concrete slab is poured. This is necessary for habitual areas but out buildings - sheds and the like - may be built without a moisture barrier
Pretty much what they said early in the video.
To avoid shrinkage whilst rendering, on dry walls. Best to spray them down with water first, that'll absorb into the walls, therefore it will be able to bond to, and not dry as quickly 😉
While the reaction noise definitely is boiling and gurgling, it also sounds like old creaky stairs in an old spooky house or an old wooden boat. I have no interest in the lime process, but I do enjoy watching y'all.
Hey thank you for sharing your experience. I'm also experimenting in stone walls, in my case I'm building from the fundament, using NHL 5 for the mortar.
I thought the NHL was a strength unit for hydrated lime and not a type of lime... are you aware of that?
So, in my head, all lime after hydrated can be measured in NHL by its specific strength...
Anyway, I will try quick lime "cal viva" also.
Thank you
Would it help the lime not shrink if you spray water on the walls first?
Dubbing out is not actually pointing.. Have watched lime plasterers dubbing out in a day after it took me a month of pointing; they 'harl' the lime quite roughly in splodges and smooth to give a flat surface for the first coat of plastering - scratch coat. The pointing is filling the gaps then 'Churned' with a brush - you go over with a stiff handbrush banging in the lime to bang out any airpockets and seat the lime at the back of the joints. So they are two different aspects of a job..
Very important tip in deed!
We are in october soon, some rain has already started in Portugal. Can you share how the walls stood after rain?. Did the lime allow to breath, less or no mold at all?. Thank you
Just Lowely to listen to this honesty tunes 🩵🧡💚🪲👏
Has your research included lime mix for Adobe brick walls?
👍
I felt like crying.
Well…
Best shot in this video…
The TOILET 🚽 sitting right between the two of you, while’s you’re working 😂👍😜
…
PS
Did you consider making the walls wet BEFORE application of your lime ..? 🧐
Just take a spray bottle and make the wall nice and wet 👍
Yeah, it is interesting that lime is so popular in Portugal. I thought our ancestors used it just because they could not buy cement for any reason.
Lime has been in the base of civilization all over Eurasia for over 3000 years. Healthy, functional, ecological and should be cheap because it's quite available. Um abraço.
Have you considered hiring day labour to help move the project along faster? Is that an option where you are?
Can't you use a compressor and a box that sprays the lime rendering on the walls which is easier to put on the walls ? Dan on RURAL FRANCE has done a few videos on spraying on lime rendering or some other product .
I’ve seen a machine used at the renovation of Chateau du Theil.
Kylie.......check carpal tunnels. My wife had had same symptoms and ended up having two operations, roughly at the same age as you are now. She wasn't able to do that kind of finger and hand movements and later on plates started hitting ground (although she is not of Greek background) losing control of hand movements all up. Do not wait as it can go very bad and it won't go any better by itself. There is no - "it is going to be better" If that is a problem with carpal tunnels - do not wait, and I mean DO NOT WAIT. It is not that I'd like to scare you but better to be safe than sorry.
I had a problem with 'trigger finger' after too much work cleaning marble skirting boards. My doctor said there is an operation but there is a danger of nerve damage and try resting it. Rest worked, I still have a problem from time to time if I do too much pruning but resting italways sorts it. Take care Kylie.
Hi Sue, you may wanna exercise that finger daily and gradually from a week before the pruning season. That applies to all our joints when it comes to repetitive work. Take care.
At first I read this as 'Lame Mistake' and thought, aw, guys don't be so hard on yourselves. Lol
I’m sure we make some lame mistakes too 😂
thanks for the info, I've found conflicting advice about the lowest temperatures at which you can work with lime, as we are currently experiencing temps dropping below freezing I think we need to wait, is that what you found out too?
Most everything we’ve read says min temp of 5C … but that’s when it’s constant and persistent. The low in our downstairs was 5C for weeks and we’ve been plastering with no issues. Freezing however, we’d tend to hold off if you can
@@MAKEDOGROW thanks that’s what I thought, we have a max of 6C at times at this time of year, best wait a month until things warm up a bit
Is this one of the old videos you're re-uploading or have you begun working on the upstairs again? Even though I have zero plans to ever work with the stuff, I found the video to be very interesting.
This is one of the old replays (always on Mondays). We won’t be working on the upstairs again until the downstairs is done
@@MAKEDOGROW Ah, thank you for explaining! Hope you'll get the downstairs sorted soon so that you can get out of the tent. I can imagine it being not that much fun when the weather is cold.
@@ennykraft the winter has definitely been challenging, but we’re still alive 😀
I cn remeber from my childhood (betwen 70 and 80 last century) that we had a just pit in the ground filled with slaked lime. Can't remember when was created and filled, so even few years is possible.
@MAKEDOGROW.... Don't use telegram, but thanks 🤗 keep being awesome
So hl5 is bad for those walls?
Thats a lot of work for one day
Hi, I have seen all of your videos, I would do all the inside of the walls with a "fakewall" plasterboard, the walls could breath and the finish of the walls would be perfect.
I think you are totally missing the point here.
Good job it ain't your house
Porque é que haverias de estragar algo tão simples, saudável e económico com gesso??
Do why do you bother say that without explaining it to him??
Do why do you bother say that without explaining it to him?? Seems like both you lovely ladies (I'm sure 😉) have a bone to pick...Be kind, don't use ridicule on someone that doesn't deserve it.
Watch Kris Harbour and although a little mad he is a genius and a really hard worker.
I had to check the difference between the "cal viva" (chaux vive in French) and "cal hidratada" which is what I used for my walls in my stone house. Why did you go for Cal Viva instead of Cal hidratada ?
@MAKEDOGROW... Done :)
You really need a good vacuum with a cyclone tub. You'll find videos on here about them, work smarter not harder.
3 parts sand, 1 lime and 1,5 water?
Maybe suggested a thousand times already, but why not buy a needle scaler? Available for SDS machines or air operated. You'll make quick progress with one of these and they're not expensive. I saw a complete SDS set for 330 euros (19 pieces), and loose air operated ones are under 50 euros.
Infelizmente o uso de argamassas de cal na construção tradicional em portugal caiu em desuso com a descoberta do cimento portland. E por isso a maior parte dos pedreiros só sabem e querem trabalhar com argamassas de cimento. Haverá ca poucos profissionais com os saberes da construção tradicional com argamassas e pinturas de cal.
No interior há bastantes, todas as marcas de cimento vendem cal por alguma razão.
Is it waterproof can you use it on the outside of the house
Each culture had their own lime recipes, it's fascinating! For outside waterproof plastering...UK would add tallow to the hot lime. France, fromage blanc, here in the Azores, milk (casein), Morroco, olive oil soap, China, sticky rice, Mexico, cactus juice or 'slime'...etc ;)
Can you use this slaked lime outside?
I have the same question. We have an old stone building that needs pointing on the exterior and I was wondering what product would be best.