In all seriousness, I have to say you guys are getting better and better. I really didn't mesh with the majority of videos I saw initially, but over time i find that these group bits especially resonate more and more. Well done!
Believe it or not: Smash Up. When we first played it, my girlfriend and I were just annoyed by the different, seemingly unbalanced powers. But now, with knowing almost all the factions (so far) and how they work in their own partly unique ways, it's exciting to try new strategies and combinations and to work against the specific powers of the opponent's factions. Really good! Didn't imagine it to grow on me after the first two plays.
Sentinels of the Multiverse, for me. I liked it a lot when I first played it, but with all the expansions and the hidden lore, it's really come into its own for me.
The more I play Lord of the Rings LCG from FFG (I'm late to the game...), the more I know the cards, the more I like it, even though I rarely win. BUT, like I said, I'm just beginning, and I'm 46 years old, so... ItMs quite a unique experience, I think. Bye from Montreal!
Yeah, LotR LCG is definitely one that grows on people. And I have to agree with Sam about Neuroshima - I had a disastrous first play as well and would've been perfectly content to never play again, but then somehow I ended up with the app on my phone. A few plays in, I now enjoy it quite a lot (though the level 1 AI still trounces me). Not one to buy, though, since I'd likely end up without anyone to play it with.
I had a hard time enjoying Race for the Galaxy for the first 10-15 times I played. The symbols were confusing and other players were beating me soundly before I could get my synergy rolling. But once I got a grasp, it became one of my favorite games, because it was so fast and simple to play.
I can say that for my wife it was Star Realms. The first time she played it I made the mistake of making a massive combo that dealt around 60 damage....and that pretty much did it for her. Since then she has played more and even been able to beat me and it allowed her to see how fun the game actually is. Great Video!!
I want to say Viticulture - my first experience wasn't actually playing a game, but seeing my friends play it. They thought it was overly complex for what it was. Then, after Stonemaier's absolutely brilliant Euphoria, we gave Viticulture another go - but with the 2nd edition rules (especially the Grande worker). This definitely made the play much better, and we sorted out the rules they'd misunderstood the first time. A 6 player game still takes ages, though. I was also lucky enough to take part in some of the playtesting for the Tuscany expansion, but we didn't get through /all/ parts of it - but some of the first ones there (Advanced Visitors, Property Cards, Mamas & Papas) definitely make the game more interesting. Our copies of the deluxe Viticulture/Tuscany box have now arrived, we just need to get them to the table some time soon...
Right before I scrolled down to read your comment, I just mentioned to my wife, we should play Viticulture tonight, and we will! I completely agree with you. I feel that the first time playing through it, it was a little difficult to get used to the shifting of the wine as it aged, and utilizing my workers better. However, after playing it several times now, it really feels like it's growing on me a lot more. This will be our fourth time playing it this week. Did you like Tuscany expansion, and would you say it's worth the purchase? We have a lot of games on our list that we are trying to prioritize what to buy next. I haven't played the expansion yet so I'm intrigued.
Chad Jordan Tuscany is several expansions in one box, and you can add them to the game piecemeal, in (almost) any order you like. In fact, it suggests that the winner of each game gets to pick which one is added next. I've only played about half of them, and many just add a little variation to the base game. The ones I mentioned above make it better, and I don't think it's worth playing without mamas and papas or the advanced visitors. Some of the more advanced expansions in Tuscany do change the base game significantly, but we haven't got to those yet. I'd suggest finding some reviews of the expansion (via BGG maybe?) and then see if you think you'll like it enough to buy.
Danny S I think Tuscany saves this game. The yellow and blue cards are so over/under powered when put next to one another. They are also too situational. Apparently the expansion gives you two options with each card. I own Vinhos and dont feel the need to get Viticulture for exactly this reason (it would cost me twice as much as I would need the Tuscany expansion)
I've been playing a lot of Call of Cthulhu LCG over the last year and it just keeps getting better and better! The different factions, all the subtle strategies and the fantastic customization just keep drawing me back in.. Highly recommended!
Do you guys have a top 10 games to play with younger players? Not kids games so no Catan Jr but games that you can enjoy with either your children or younger family members?
I was surprised Marvel Legendary didn't make Tom's list. It would make mine. All the expansions added a ton of variety and increased the difficulty and gameplay depth. I really liked it with just the base set, but I love, love, love that game now.
For me, I'd say Fairy Tale, King of Tokyo and Atlantis Rising. They all fell flat at the beginning, I guess I was expecting too much. But the more I played them, the more I started having fun with them. Hype is a big factor on what to expect from games, to the point that you expect something that the game simply isn't. Loved this Top 10 guys!
I have to go with Scrabble - when I was really young I really didn't like the game (maybe family house rules or styles contributed to that), and saw it as a slow and bland game. A lot later on I got to appreciate the tile placement aspect of the game (like placing words on double/triple scores or piggybacking off one word when writing another). Now I think it's generally a solid game - I think there's just a very rough learning curve to it that can really alienate people and is very dependent on who you play with.
A game we just hated because no one would ever win was Monopoly. But we "learned" how to play it, plus added some house rules and it started to be really fun. In fact our games would be over in 40 minutes which I believe is huge for Monopoly.
I had a blame-the-instructor sort of experience my first time with Settlers of Catan, of all games, for the sole reason that he saw fit to teach it with both the Seafarers, and Cities and Knights expansions. At the time, I was new to board games in general, so I was very much overwhelmed and perplexed, and found it difficult to appreciate it. Valuable lesson, though: now that I am an avid boardgamer and love to teach and turn people on to board games, it's taught me to temper my personal ambitions to delve into new expansion territories when showing people a game for the first time. Get them to understand and appreciate the basics first. Be patient in that regard, otherwise you might scare off from any chance of a second game.
Automobile by Martin Wallace, now my favorite game. Beautiful theme - I feel like I'm making actual decisions that the early automotive pioneers would make. Lot's of interaction and subtlety.
Next list should be Top 10 Games your Wives love but you still have to at least enjoy it as well....this will really help me pick games my wife is definitely more picky about what or if she will play.
Twilight Imperium III for me. At first, I thought it was far too heavy and random. But we didn't play the diplomacy/politics well. I just love it now. Tense all way through. And it's the only game we keep telling stories about years after we played it.
Exodus was the game here for me. At first I was unsure but the strategies in the game are actually really quite deep. You need at least three plays to reveal if it is a keeper or not.
For me it would be Tzolk'in. My first play was after a questionable rules explanation, and the end result felt more like multiplayer solitaire with little interaction between players. In subsequent plays the strategies became more clear and now I quite enjoy the game.
I actually want to say TI3 for me - it was wretched with just the base game, because it just incentivized everyone to sit on their duffs, but with the Shattered Empires expansion, it becomes a fist-fight much faster. Totally saves the game.
Mine is Chinatown. The first time I played it I couldn't really understand how to be improving my businesses and it all seemed very random (people weren't very willing to trade). I was also just a bit tired because it was at the end of a con. The second time I played it, I looooved it!
Sam, I like you. I enjoy your critique and opinions, but please for the love of god let us know what game you're talking about within a couple sentences. You crazy crazy man. Can we make that a kickstarter stretch goal next year? If we hit $200,000 the first words Sam says has to be the name of the game he's about to talk about, lol. Y'all goofy, keep up the good work.
wr00t After he reveals the game. Talk all he wants to. I enjoy his commentary, but I find far too often I'm saying "what the hell is he talking about?"
Sam Healey I hope you make it! You guys do so much for the gaming community. Not to mention making my work day a little more exciting. See you at GenCon!
Gotta go with Starcraft for mine. First time I played it with a couple friends he completely misunderstood how army sizes worked in individual battles, making camping on a full planet nearly unbeatable, especially with the zerg. It was still fun, but it felt unbalanced. Then after learning how the game was actually played and trying it with the excellent expansion it went way up on my favorite board games.
I love these top 10s I look forward to them, I use a lot of these lists to choose games for my gaming group. I like your guys' varying opinions on the same games.
The game that most recently has moved up on my list is Caverna. I held off on buying it for a few months and then finally gave in a purchased. First few plays was with only 2 players and I wasn't feeling it. Felt like an over-priced game for the experience. Once it went to a 3-4 player game the experience is much better and like everyone on the video said, once I got better at it. Glad I didn't chuck it after the first few plays. I am hoping the same happens for 5 Tribes!!!!!
I'd cite Sentinels of the Multiverse. With the base game I felt it got old quick, because there were only 4 villains and 2 of them were crushingly hard and not fun. I found the game very average as a result. Then two things happened: I got much better at the game (those 2 villains are now merely "challenging") and a spate of expansions of various sizes came out. This game is one that absolutely gets better with each expansion and as you the player get better at it. It is now easily in my top 10 games.
Only 20% into the vidoe, but I enjoy it so far. I expected games that you loved at the start, then loved more. I think you took the more fun route. "I didn't like this game, but now I think it's alright, I might have been a bit hasty when I first said I didn't like it". Fun :)
Star Realms is a race for the same cards and your opponent gets the left overs. I find it is dependant on mixing races with no benefit to committing to one set. So everyone ends up doing the same thing, competing for the same cards... the strategy is not as diverse as I would like it to be. I still enjoy it, but not overly in love with it.
Tom, BGG ranking system is OK, the problem is you're not reading the proper list ;-) You're a thematic gamer, so look at thematic games ranking: "War of the Ring", "Mage Knight", "Robinson Crusoe", "Imperial Assault", "Dead of Winter", "Eldritch Horror", "Battlestar: Galactica", "Twilight Imperium 3" and "Descent 2.0" are all in top ten. All absolutely great games (for different reasons) and not one I would say doesn't deserve to be in a top ten.
Actually Tom is a variety gamer. He's one of the few. I'm ore of a thematic gamer than him and I'm not even one, I'm still a variety gamer. That is probably the one thing that makes Tom such and expert on board games is the large variety of different types of games that he enjoys.
I'm complete opposite on 7 Wonders. Absolutely loved it at first and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. After a few playthroughs though, it got boring fast and I haven't touched it since.
Village has only gotten better every time I've played it. Though I've always thought it was good, it has become probably my favorite euro-style resource management game. Add in the expansion (Village Inn) and the game becomes a great, great game.
I like Zee's list the best. Here is my list: I'll do the same as you, the highest will be the ones that changed by the most. When the change is pretty close then it will be whichever one I like the most now. 10: Perry Rhodan The Cosmic League: Started out just thinking it was ok. Some mechanics I found in time that really made me like the game more was the fact that moving towards the sun is faster than away and the way goods deplete all the time. Also there is more strategy than it seems as you have to consider how much upgrading you want to do in the early game before you just go for profit. Unfortunately I lost a few of the cards and ended up giving the game away. I don't like it enough to repurchase it though. 6.5 to 7.5 +1 9: Twilight Imperium: Of course I loved the concept and pieces of this game so much from the start. It is also one of the most complicated games that I have ever played. The first couple of games I got to thinking though, this is just a victory point winning game? And you always just want the imperial card? The expansions ended up changing it into the game that I really wanted and especially the alternative command cards. Litterally every single game that I have played has been better than the previous one. I've played it about 10 times clear through so far, which is good for a game that takes over 5 hours. It has gone up about the same as Perry Rhodan but I like it more. 8.0 to 9.0 +1 8: Heroescape: This one also went up about the same as the previous ones. I loved it the very first time that I played it and have never stopped loving it. It kept getting better and better with expansions and the more you play it. This is the only 10 of 10 on BGG. 9.0 to 10.0 +1 7: Power Grid: At first I saw it as rather boring and not really different than Ticket to Ride. Then I saw how the mechanics really worked and all the different parts that you had to work on. I saw that it was really all about balance. 7.0 to 8.5 +1.5 6: Dungeon Lords: I mostly liked it at first, but there was too much maintenance. Once the maintenance becomes 2nd nature and you can really focus on the strategy, the game becomes amazing. Now when I play it with others, I don't have to really spend a lot of time on the maintence phases and just rush people through them. We are able to enjoy the strategy more. 7.5 to 9 +1.5 5. Stone Age: At first I thought it was just a generic worker placement game. However the dice rolling and other risk taking gives it its own flavor. There still are only really 3 playable strategies that I know of though. 6.0 to 8.0 +2 4: Middle Earth quest: Check out this video by Mattie. It discribes what the game seems like at first very well. The game actually is amazing for the story once you look past the mechanics. 7.0 to 9.0 +2 ruclips.net/video/du5H3i03gk4/видео.html 3: Dungeon Twister: I hated my first couple of games because of the pure strategy. It was easy enough to learn though and to play on BGA, so I played a few more times and actually started liking it. Strange thing is, I won the frst game and haven't won one since then. 5.5 to 8.0 +2.5 2: Merchant of Venus: I didn't like it when I first played it because the first time I played it was the new FFG versiou of the game. Eric Summer is correct, the classic version is better and the FFG Classic version has the great components too. 5.5 to 8.0 +2.5 1. Race for the Galaxy. The first few times that I played it, both against different people, I just didn't see it as very good. Now I tend to want to play it all the time. 5.5 to 8.5 +3 Honorable Mentions: Monopoly: Playing it correctly is so much better than playing it wrong, as most people seem to play it. However I still can't put a game that I would only rank at 5.5 on this list. Even though when played as taught it would have only been a 3 or 3.5 for at least a 2 point increase. Mage Wars: It can't ever make it on this list even though it keeps getting better. This is because it was a 9 even when I first started playing it. It can only go up by 1 point. The only way that it can make it is if I ever love it as much or more than Heroscape.
Small World got 3x better for our group with the Realms expansion. I know most people were disappointed by it, but the scenarios really focused the combat (such as in Go East) and gave goals that required aggressive strategies. We also don't play without the Tales and Legends cards.
Roborally. The first 2 times I played it, we played 2-player games, and I thought it was okay, but I just wondered in the back of my mind how good it might be with 8 players. We played it with 8 players over Thanksgiving, and it was one of my top 5 gaming experiences of all time. Since then, the game has gotten to the table many times. So good!
@ 17:34 Wow Tom really does get to play these games in advance seeing as how Innovation isn't scheduled to release for another 15 years! I shall travel to the year 2030!
For myself, both Ascension and Star Realms would be on my list. And I do really hate the artwork in Ascension, with a passion. If I could play with just text cards, I would. Anyway, I'd also put Myth on my list. The game really shines the more you play it.
Aqua Brunch is a little card game that I didn´t liked very much when my wife bought it at hte Essen fare but now I think it is really good for larger groups and a really nice intro game. Apart from that there are much more games that went down because they are too long to play them (often).
Pandemic is the big one for me. I work in EMS, and many bases have the game because it works thematically for us. We played it a lot, but it was honestly OK at best. I recently played it again, and really enjoyed it. We did use expansions, which is never used before. But I had a great time. I probably won't buy it, because it does seem to be everywhere I go, but I defintely plan on buying the dice version now.
haha Sam I usually agree with you on most games, but I've just never gotten into 7 wonders, I just really dislike the drafting mechanic in it...I guess I should try fairy tale maybe that will help me like 7 wonders a little more. I'd probably say for me the game I did dislike but now really enjoy is betrayal at house on the hill...I just take it for what is it now, and try not to get annoyed when it breaks, but now I really do enjoy playing it :D
I think the main difference between the drafting in 7 Wonders and Fairy Tale is that in Fairy Tale, you don't reveal the card you've chosen immediately. The drafting is the same, but the nuance is that you don't have a real idea if you're giving the other person some thing they need or not. Additionally, I think Fairy Tale is a lighter game, too. Try before you buy, as always!
Thanks so much for the interesting videos and reviews you make! Could one of you guys someday make a review of the board game SIDIBABA? It seems to me like a really cool board game, but there is no proper review of it yet on youtube. Besides that, would be great to hear YOUR oppinion on it.
For me it would be probably Voluspa. It looked nice and interesting, but after a few horrible loses i thought "wow, there is no strategy or anything..". Then i played more, and i liked it more with 3 players (more freedom, more space for planning future moves). But now i even enjoy it with two and even losing, because usually it is a very close score. It still has some luck element, but now it is ok for me. I like it "for what it is" ;) P.S. what are these drawings on the shelves? :)
Glad to see Ascension get the credit it deserves - it is a great deck builder, tons better than Dominion. Yeah, the original artwork is very strange, but the mechanics are so strong that I can overlook that. I would also say that Ascension is better than Star Realms
Zee G. I'm sure someone has pointed it out already, but isn't it weird that you have a game that's both on this list and the Top 10 Turkeys? Isn't that a bit paradoxzeecal?
7 Wonders is actually on my own personal list of games of this type. I loved the style of the game, but the first time I played I lost badly because the guy who taught me, while an avid fan of board games and now even designs them, is absolutely horrid at teaching them. He failed to clarify a few key things until the very end of the game when he'd already won. Having played it since, I really can say that I love the game.
Really not what I expected (or wanted to see) here :/ I was hoping to see good games that get better and better the more you play (Race for the Galaxy was that for me). What I got was games that felt like crap but are now ok. Race for the Galaxy I really enjoyed, and the more I played the more I saw and the more I loved it. Or Marvel Legendary, I loved the game... then expansions came out and I loved it more all over again!! (and I like Ascension less every time I play Legendary) That's what I was expecting. Not game that are... ok. Regardless, thank you guys for putting in the time and effort - thanks for the video!
No Evolution? That game went from zero to hero: from an educational project of a Russian biologist to that awsome and polished product by Northstar Games and one of the most popular board games in Russia.
Camel Cup makes far more sense, and the graphics used seem to suggest that this was the intention. I think if the title was meant to be Camel Up...the the "U" would be larger.
Don't mess with Sam's intos! We love them 😂🤣😂 Wouldn't it be fun (for us) if you blindly switched Zee and Sam's top ten lists and made them defend them as their own?
Good video overall. My only criticism is that there is way too long of a lead in (Sam notably this vid) before actually revealing what the game is. I'm often left with critique and explanation without sufficient context. By the time I get the context I'm frustrated at trying to remember what was being said earlier.
They do long intros with a lot of the games in their top tens. I love the vids, but I have to do a lot of skipping. If it's a category I'm not really into, I will even skip right to the end to read the list.
After watching nearly all of their top tens, I know it's not a new thing. I don't mind it once in awhile when they're playing "Hey can you guess what I'm talking about?" with each other. It just feels like it's happening more and more lately - but it's not like I keep metrics on that sort of thing. ...though I'll admit I've skipped to the end a couple times though and watch it later if time allows. :3
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REQUEST: Tom, Sam, & Zee comment on the current top 100 BGG list.
Your request has been granted.... 2 years later
In all seriousness, I have to say you guys are getting better and better. I really didn't mesh with the majority of videos I saw initially, but over time i find that these group bits especially resonate more and more. Well done!
Believe it or not: Smash Up. When we first played it, my girlfriend and I were just annoyed by the different, seemingly unbalanced powers. But now, with knowing almost all the factions (so far) and how they work in their own partly unique ways, it's exciting to try new strategies and combinations and to work against the specific powers of the opponent's factions. Really good! Didn't imagine it to grow on me after the first two plays.
Sentinels of the Multiverse, for me. I liked it a lot when I first played it, but with all the expansions and the hidden lore, it's really come into its own for me.
Definitely agree with Sam's description of 7th Wonder. You finally understand what you've been doing the first time you tot up the scores...
The more I play Lord of the Rings LCG from FFG (I'm late to the game...), the more I know the cards, the more I like it, even though I rarely win.
BUT, like I said, I'm just beginning, and I'm 46 years old, so... ItMs quite a unique experience, I think.
Bye from Montreal!
Yeah, LotR LCG is definitely one that grows on people.
And I have to agree with Sam about Neuroshima - I had a disastrous first play as well and would've been perfectly content to never play again, but then somehow I ended up with the app on my phone. A few plays in, I now enjoy it quite a lot (though the level 1 AI still trounces me). Not one to buy, though, since I'd likely end up without anyone to play it with.
That one was a turkey for me. The retooling became a seriously drag :O)
I had a hard time enjoying Race for the Galaxy for the first 10-15 times I played. The symbols were confusing and other players were beating me soundly before I could get my synergy rolling. But once I got a grasp, it became one of my favorite games, because it was so fast and simple to play.
I can say that for my wife it was Star Realms. The first time she played it I made the mistake of making a massive combo that dealt around 60 damage....and that pretty much did it for her.
Since then she has played more and even been able to beat me and it allowed her to see how fun the game actually is.
Great Video!!
I want to say Viticulture - my first experience wasn't actually playing a game, but seeing my friends play it. They thought it was overly complex for what it was. Then, after Stonemaier's absolutely brilliant Euphoria, we gave Viticulture another go - but with the 2nd edition rules (especially the Grande worker). This definitely made the play much better, and we sorted out the rules they'd misunderstood the first time. A 6 player game still takes ages, though.
I was also lucky enough to take part in some of the playtesting for the Tuscany expansion, but we didn't get through /all/ parts of it - but some of the first ones there (Advanced Visitors, Property Cards, Mamas & Papas) definitely make the game more interesting. Our copies of the deluxe Viticulture/Tuscany box have now arrived, we just need to get them to the table some time soon...
Right before I scrolled down to read your comment, I just mentioned to my wife, we should play Viticulture tonight, and we will! I completely agree with you. I feel that the first time playing through it, it was a little difficult to get used to the shifting of the wine as it aged, and utilizing my workers better. However, after playing it several times now, it really feels like it's growing on me a lot more. This will be our fourth time playing it this week.
Did you like Tuscany expansion, and would you say it's worth the purchase? We have a lot of games on our list that we are trying to prioritize what to buy next. I haven't played the expansion yet so I'm intrigued.
Chad Jordan Tuscany is several expansions in one box, and you can add them to the game piecemeal, in (almost) any order you like. In fact, it suggests that the winner of each game gets to pick which one is added next. I've only played about half of them, and many just add a little variation to the base game. The ones I mentioned above make it better, and I don't think it's worth playing without mamas and papas or the advanced visitors. Some of the more advanced expansions in Tuscany do change the base game significantly, but we haven't got to those yet. I'd suggest finding some reviews of the expansion (via BGG maybe?) and then see if you think you'll like it enough to buy.
Danny S I think Tuscany saves this game. The yellow and blue cards are so over/under powered when put next to one another. They are also too situational. Apparently the expansion gives you two options with each card. I own Vinhos and dont feel the need to get Viticulture for exactly this reason (it would cost me twice as much as I would need the Tuscany expansion)
Sam "Build-up" Healey... Love those intros!
LOL I'm cracking up at Zee's face when he's holding the imaginary Waterdeep box
I've been playing a lot of Call of Cthulhu LCG over the last year and it just keeps getting better and better! The different factions, all the subtle strategies and the fantastic customization just keep drawing me back in.. Highly recommended!
Do you guys have a top 10 games to play with younger players? Not kids games so no Catan Jr but games that you can enjoy with either your children or younger family members?
I was surprised Marvel Legendary didn't make Tom's list. It would make mine. All the expansions added a ton of variety and increased the difficulty and gameplay depth. I really liked it with just the base set, but I love, love, love that game now.
Tom's never hidden the fact he's always loved that game/universe from day 1. I think it can only go "down" at this point.
For me, I'd say Fairy Tale, King of Tokyo and Atlantis Rising. They all fell flat at the beginning, I guess I was expecting too much. But the more I played them, the more I started having fun with them. Hype is a big factor on what to expect from games, to the point that you expect something that the game simply isn't.
Loved this Top 10 guys!
I have to go with Scrabble - when I was really young I really didn't like the game (maybe family house rules or styles contributed to that), and saw it as a slow and bland game. A lot later on I got to appreciate the tile placement aspect of the game (like placing words on double/triple scores or piggybacking off one word when writing another). Now I think it's generally a solid game - I think there's just a very rough learning curve to it that can really alienate people and is very dependent on who you play with.
Sam, don't ever stop giving those introductions before announcing the title. Great intros as always.
A game we just hated because no one would ever win was Monopoly. But we "learned" how to play it, plus added some house rules and it started to be really fun. In fact our games would be over in 40 minutes which I believe is huge for Monopoly.
Guildhall with the expansion has gotten better for me. I am anxious to try the original game again to see if it has improved in my opinion.
I had a blame-the-instructor sort of experience my first time with Settlers of Catan, of all games, for the sole reason that he saw fit to teach it with both the Seafarers, and Cities and Knights expansions. At the time, I was new to board games in general, so I was very much overwhelmed and perplexed, and found it difficult to appreciate it.
Valuable lesson, though: now that I am an avid boardgamer and love to teach and turn people on to board games, it's taught me to temper my personal ambitions to delve into new expansion territories when showing people a game for the first time. Get them to understand and appreciate the basics first. Be patient in that regard, otherwise you might scare off from any chance of a second game.
innovation was published 2030 ?
that's really innovative :p
Automobile by Martin Wallace, now my favorite game. Beautiful theme - I feel like I'm making actual decisions that the early automotive pioneers would make. Lot's of interaction and subtlety.
Next list should be Top 10 Games your Wives love but you still have to at least enjoy it as well....this will really help me pick games my wife is definitely more picky about what or if she will play.
I knew Camel Up would be on Zee's list! Glad to see you coming around to it, Zee!
Twilight Imperium III for me. At first, I thought it was far too heavy and random. But we didn't play the diplomacy/politics well.
I just love it now. Tense all way through. And it's the only game we keep telling stories about years after we played it.
Exodus was the game here for me. At first I was unsure but the strategies in the game are actually really quite deep. You need at least three plays to reveal if it is a keeper or not.
For me it would be Tzolk'in. My first play was after a questionable rules explanation, and the end result felt more like multiplayer solitaire with little interaction between players. In subsequent plays the strategies became more clear and now I quite enjoy the game.
I actually want to say TI3 for me - it was wretched with just the base game, because it just incentivized everyone to sit on their duffs, but with the Shattered Empires expansion, it becomes a fist-fight much faster. Totally saves the game.
Mine is Chinatown. The first time I played it I couldn't really understand how to be improving my businesses and it all seemed very random (people weren't very willing to trade). I was also just a bit tired because it was at the end of a con.
The second time I played it, I looooved it!
really like the way ths one is done with the banner across the bottom for each person. well done!
I have never seen these guys, agreeing so much before. They really seem to have an understanding of eachothers choices (For ONCE!)
Sam, I like you. I enjoy your critique and opinions, but please for the love of god let us know what game you're talking about within a couple sentences. You crazy crazy man.
Can we make that a kickstarter stretch goal next year? If we hit $200,000 the first words Sam says has to be the name of the game he's about to talk about, lol.
Y'all goofy, keep up the good work.
No, let him talk!
wr00t After he reveals the game. Talk all he wants to. I enjoy his commentary, but I find far too often I'm saying "what the hell is he talking about?"
If the Kickstarter hits $200K next year, I SINCERELY PROMISE to do as you ask...mark it down and take it to the bank.
Sam Healey I hope you make it! You guys do so much for the gaming community. Not to mention making my work day a little more exciting. See you at GenCon!
Chris Brown Don't do that Sam! I enjoy the suspense and trying to figure out what you're going to say!
Gotta go with Starcraft for mine. First time I played it with a couple friends he completely misunderstood how army sizes worked in individual battles, making camping on a full planet nearly unbeatable, especially with the zerg. It was still fun, but it felt unbalanced.
Then after learning how the game was actually played and trying it with the excellent expansion it went way up on my favorite board games.
Tom was "giddy pooperknickles"? Now I know why I backed the 2015 season.
I see a theme in the vid:
1) game makes wife happy
2) play game with wife
3) wife happy
4) ... ??? ...
5) PROFIT.
So what we're saying is that one of Sam's criteria for improvement in games is... Stockholm Syndrome.
For Dvonn, if you don't like the set up to start, I would recommend someone set up the entire board, and the other person pick the side to play.
I love these top 10s I look forward to them, I use a lot of these lists to choose games for my gaming group. I like your guys' varying opinions on the same games.
The game that most recently has moved up on my list is Caverna. I held off on buying it for a few months and then finally gave in a purchased. First few plays was with only 2 players and I wasn't feeling it. Felt like an over-priced game for the experience. Once it went to a 3-4 player game the experience is much better and like everyone on the video said, once I got better at it. Glad I didn't chuck it after the first few plays.
I am hoping the same happens for 5 Tribes!!!!!
I'd cite Sentinels of the Multiverse. With the base game I felt it got old quick, because there were only 4 villains and 2 of them were crushingly hard and not fun. I found the game very average as a result. Then two things happened: I got much better at the game (those 2 villains are now merely "challenging") and a spate of expansions of various sizes came out. This game is one that absolutely gets better with each expansion and as you the player get better at it. It is now easily in my top 10 games.
Fantastic top Ten! Probably my favourite list.
Only 20% into the vidoe, but I enjoy it so far. I expected games that you loved at the start, then loved more. I think you took the more fun route. "I didn't like this game, but now I think it's alright, I might have been a bit hasty when I first said I didn't like it". Fun :)
Star Realms is a race for the same cards and your opponent gets the left overs. I find it is dependant on mixing races with no benefit to committing to one set. So everyone ends up doing the same thing, competing for the same cards... the strategy is not as diverse as I would like it to be. I still enjoy it, but not overly in love with it.
DO you have Dice Tower Bloopers somewhere ?
You guys are cool. I hope you never divorce each other.
Cheers
You request has also been granted! Also 2 years later...
Tom, BGG ranking system is OK, the problem is you're not reading the proper list ;-) You're a thematic gamer, so look at thematic games ranking: "War of the Ring", "Mage Knight", "Robinson Crusoe", "Imperial Assault", "Dead of Winter", "Eldritch Horror", "Battlestar: Galactica", "Twilight Imperium 3" and "Descent 2.0" are all in top ten. All absolutely great games (for different reasons) and not one I would say doesn't deserve to be in a top ten.
Actually Tom is a variety gamer. He's one of the few. I'm ore of a thematic gamer than him and I'm not even one, I'm still a variety gamer. That is probably the one thing that makes Tom such and expert on board games is the large variety of different types of games that he enjoys.
I'm complete opposite on 7 Wonders. Absolutely loved it at first and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. After a few playthroughs though, it got boring fast and I haven't touched it since.
Give it a go with some of the expansions, especially Babel. That really cranks up the variety and the amount of tactical decision making.
Yeah, same for me. It got a bit boring after a few plays.
Village has only gotten better every time I've played it. Though I've always thought it was good, it has become probably my favorite euro-style resource management game. Add in the expansion (Village Inn) and the game becomes a great, great game.
I like Zee's list the best. Here is my list:
I'll do the same as you, the highest will be the ones that changed by the most. When the change is pretty close then it will be whichever one I like the most now.
10: Perry Rhodan The Cosmic League: Started out just thinking it was ok. Some mechanics I found in time that really made me like the game more was the fact that moving towards the sun is faster than away and the way goods deplete all the time. Also there is more strategy than it seems as you have to consider how much upgrading you want to do in the early game before you just go for profit. Unfortunately I lost a few of the cards and ended up giving the game away. I don't like it enough to repurchase it though. 6.5 to 7.5 +1
9: Twilight Imperium: Of course I loved the concept and pieces of this game so much from the start. It is also one of the most complicated games that I have ever played. The first couple of games I got to thinking though, this is just a victory point winning game? And you always just want the imperial card? The expansions ended up changing it into the game that I really wanted and especially the alternative command cards. Litterally every single game that I have played has been better than the previous one. I've played it about 10 times clear through so far, which is good for a game that takes over 5 hours. It has gone up about the same as Perry Rhodan but I like it more. 8.0 to 9.0 +1
8: Heroescape: This one also went up about the same as the previous ones. I loved it the very first time that I played it and have never stopped loving it. It kept getting better and better with expansions and the more you play it. This is the only 10 of 10 on BGG. 9.0 to 10.0 +1
7: Power Grid: At first I saw it as rather boring and not really different than Ticket to Ride. Then I saw how the mechanics really worked and all the different parts that you had to work on. I saw that it was really all about balance. 7.0 to 8.5 +1.5
6: Dungeon Lords: I mostly liked it at first, but there was too much maintenance. Once the maintenance becomes 2nd nature and you can really focus on the strategy, the game becomes amazing. Now when I play it with others, I don't have to really spend a lot of time on the maintence phases and just rush people through them. We are able to enjoy the strategy more. 7.5 to 9 +1.5
5. Stone Age: At first I thought it was just a generic worker placement game. However the dice rolling and other risk taking gives it its own flavor. There still are only really 3 playable strategies that I know of though. 6.0 to 8.0 +2
4: Middle Earth quest: Check out this video by Mattie. It discribes what the game seems like at first very well. The game actually is amazing for the story once you look past the mechanics. 7.0 to 9.0 +2
ruclips.net/video/du5H3i03gk4/видео.html
3: Dungeon Twister: I hated my first couple of games because of the pure strategy. It was easy enough to learn though and to play on BGA, so I played a few more times and actually started liking it. Strange thing is, I won the frst game and haven't won one since then. 5.5 to 8.0 +2.5
2: Merchant of Venus: I didn't like it when I first played it because the first time I played it was the new FFG versiou of the game. Eric Summer is correct, the classic version is better and the FFG Classic version has the great components too. 5.5 to 8.0 +2.5
1. Race for the Galaxy. The first few times that I played it, both against different people, I just didn't see it as very good. Now I tend to want to play it all the time. 5.5 to 8.5 +3
Honorable Mentions:
Monopoly: Playing it correctly is so much better than playing it wrong, as most people seem to play it. However I still can't put a game that I would only rank at 5.5 on this list. Even though when played as taught it would have only been a 3 or 3.5 for at least a 2 point increase.
Mage Wars: It can't ever make it on this list even though it keeps getting better. This is because it was a 9 even when I first started playing it. It can only go up by 1 point. The only way that it can make it is if I ever love it as much or more than Heroscape.
Small World got 3x better for our group with the Realms expansion. I know most people were disappointed by it, but the scenarios really focused the combat (such as in Go East) and gave goals that required aggressive strategies. We also don't play without the Tales and Legends cards.
Roborally. The first 2 times I played it, we played 2-player games, and I thought it was okay, but I just wondered in the back of my mind how good it might be with 8 players. We played it with 8 players over Thanksgiving, and it was one of my top 5 gaming experiences of all time. Since then, the game has gotten to the table many times. So good!
@ 17:34 Wow Tom really does get to play these games in advance seeing as how Innovation isn't scheduled to release for another 15 years! I shall travel to the year 2030!
For myself, both Ascension and Star Realms would be on my list. And I do really hate the artwork in Ascension, with a passion. If I could play with just text cards, I would. Anyway, I'd also put Myth on my list. The game really shines the more you play it.
Neuroshima Hex's mention reminded me of what I would like to see:
Top 10 Tablet adaptations of tabletop games.
One of your best videos in a while - great topic!
Isn't Winners Circle an updated version of Royal Turf?
When Zee announced his #8 was Star Realms, I was playing the Star Realms app over the video. It took me a minute to realize the coincidence.
Aqua Brunch is a little card game that I didn´t liked very much when my wife bought it at hte Essen fare but now I think it is really good for larger groups and a really nice intro game.
Apart from that there are much more games that went down because they are too long to play them (often).
Pandemic is the big one for me. I work in EMS, and many bases have the game because it works thematically for us. We played it a lot, but it was honestly OK at best. I recently played it again, and really enjoyed it. We did use expansions, which is never used before. But I had a great time. I probably won't buy it, because it does seem to be everywhere I go, but I defintely plan on buying the dice version now.
A new Top Ten? My day just got better!
haha Sam I usually agree with you on most games, but I've just never gotten into 7 wonders, I just really dislike the drafting mechanic in it...I guess I should try fairy tale maybe that will help me like 7 wonders a little more.
I'd probably say for me the game I did dislike but now really enjoy is betrayal at house on the hill...I just take it for what is it now, and try not to get annoyed when it breaks, but now I really do enjoy playing it
:D
I think the main difference between the drafting in 7 Wonders and Fairy Tale is that in Fairy Tale, you don't reveal the card you've chosen immediately. The drafting is the same, but the nuance is that you don't have a real idea if you're giving the other person some thing they need or not. Additionally, I think Fairy Tale is a lighter game, too. Try before you buy, as always!
Thanks Sam!!
I like the sound of that much better than 7 wonders, can't wait to give it a go
Ascension peaked with the Storm of Souls block, but has been going downhill since play testing was brought in-house.
Really interesting and cool video, thanks! Glad that 7 Wonders is on two lists!
Did Innovation really come out way back in 2030? Wow. Feels like only yesterday.
Thanks so much for the interesting videos and reviews you make! Could one of you guys someday make a review of the board game SIDIBABA? It seems to me like a really cool board game, but there is no proper review of it yet on youtube. Besides that, would be great to hear YOUR oppinion on it.
you're all awesome. thanks for this. really good!
For me it would be probably Voluspa. It looked nice and interesting, but after a few horrible loses i thought "wow, there is no strategy or anything..". Then i played more, and i liked it more with 3 players (more freedom, more space for planning future moves). But now i even enjoy it with two and even losing, because usually it is a very close score. It still has some luck element, but now it is ok for me. I like it "for what it is" ;)
P.S. what are these drawings on the shelves? :)
Great Top 10 subject, guys! I thought the comments were great..
This top ten made me "giddy pooper-knickles" to watch the next one!! Great video guys. Thanks!! :)
Glad to see Ascension get the credit it deserves - it is a great deck builder, tons better than Dominion. Yeah, the original artwork is very strange, but the mechanics are so strong that I can overlook that.
I would also say that Ascension is better than Star Realms
Another entertaining video. Well done guys.
How did I get here?!! I was watching crazy old Russian men that were waving axe handles chase drunken bears across busy highways and the BAM!
Games are really only as good as how much fun you have when you're getting your ass kicked.
Let's kill and plunder!
- Zee Garcia
It says Camel Up on the back of the box...
I think ticket to ride was like that for me. The more I play it the better it gets
I like vanilla Cyclades.
lol The bottom marquis changed from Camel Up to Camel Cup! :)
Zee G. I'm sure someone has pointed it out already, but isn't it weird that you have a game that's both on this list and the Top 10 Turkeys? Isn't that a bit paradoxzeecal?
Yea, Zee G.
Marco Schaub how? he thought it was bad now he thinks its good
That "Cool" after Z's first choice made laugh.
Great video, guys!
Dude, Zee plays some out there games. I don't even know what he's talking about most the time.
7 Wonders is actually on my own personal list of games of this type. I loved the style of the game, but the first time I played I lost badly because the guy who taught me, while an avid fan of board games and now even designs them, is absolutely horrid at teaching them. He failed to clarify a few key things until the very end of the game when he'd already won. Having played it since, I really can say that I love the game.
And maybe I should try Babel again haha...I found it so unforgiving the first time I played
Really not what I expected (or wanted to see) here :/
I was hoping to see good games that get better and better the more you play (Race for the Galaxy was that for me). What I got was games that felt like crap but are now ok.
Race for the Galaxy I really enjoyed, and the more I played the more I saw and the more I loved it. Or Marvel Legendary, I loved the game... then expansions came out and I loved it more all over again!! (and I like Ascension less every time I play Legendary)
That's what I was expecting. Not game that are... ok.
Regardless, thank you guys for putting in the time and effort - thanks for the video!
No Evolution? That game went from zero to hero: from an educational project of a Russian biologist to that awsome and polished product by Northstar Games and one of the most popular board games in Russia.
Thurn and Taxis, Cinque Terre, and Splendor were mine.
oh jeeez, use the freaking cup holders!! No drinks on the gaming tables!
@ Zee & company --- would love to see a list of your top 10 (or 30) must-have game expansions
Zee, Kemet vs Cyclades with Titans expansion?
I already liked Cyclades more than Kemet anyway :-)
There is a lot of skill involved in Camel up. There is a reason why I can consistently win it.
Camel Cup makes far more sense, and the graphics used seem to suggest that this was the intention. I think if the title was meant to be Camel Up...the the "U" would be larger.
The designer says Camel Up: boardgamegeek.com/thread/1234820/camel-or-camel-cup. It also says "Camel Up" on the back of the German box.
nice idea for a list!
Ascension's artwork annoys me to no end! I keep expecting to see a Liger in there somewhere, a la Napoleon Dynamite.
Well done, gentlemen
Good going! Funniest top ten in a while...
Don't mess with Sam's intos! We love them 😂🤣😂
Wouldn't it be fun (for us) if you blindly switched Zee and Sam's top ten lists and made them defend them as their own?
Thanks
What's the song used in the intro and where can I buy it?
Good video overall. My only criticism is that there is way too long of a lead in (Sam notably this vid) before actually revealing what the game is. I'm often left with critique and explanation without sufficient context. By the time I get the context I'm frustrated at trying to remember what was being said earlier.
They do long intros with a lot of the games in their top tens. I love the vids, but I have to do a lot of skipping. If it's a category I'm not really into, I will even skip right to the end to read the list.
After watching nearly all of their top tens, I know it's not a new thing. I don't mind it once in awhile when they're playing "Hey can you guess what I'm talking about?" with each other. It just feels like it's happening more and more lately - but it's not like I keep metrics on that sort of thing.
...though I'll admit I've skipped to the end a couple times though and watch it later if time allows. :3
Tom - what's the game between cosmic encounter and royals on your shelf
looks like Los Mampfos - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/21854/los-mampfos
So, I think that Giddy Poopernickles sounds like the title for a new game.