Echoes of Undertale's Neutral Kills | Undertale Character Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2024
- While Undertale's neutral endings draw plenty of discussion, the echoes left by the bosses you kill are often overlooked. In this video, I'll provide a thorough analysis of the various NPC dialogue from killing major bosses and a few minibosses as well, discuss the characterization this reveals, as well as the effectiveness in conveying a unique atmosphere and capturing Undertale's themes. My patreon: / dorked
Undertale Summer Newsletter Analysis: • New PAPYRUS Lore?! Del...
Other Undertale/Deltarune Analysis: • The Truth About Papyru...
Kingdom Hearts Analysis: • Terra Isn't Dumb | Kin...
My Undertale webcomic, Inverted Fate: invertedfate.com/chapters
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
0:36 - Empty House (Toriel)
1:17 - A Bonely Town (Papyrus)
3:25 - Hero's Fall (Undyne)
4:16 - A Star's Soft Side (Mettaton)
6:43 - Snowdrake and the Canine Unit
8:35 - Effectiveness and Impact
10:49 - Conclusion
#undertale #analysis #characteranalysis #tobyfox #papyrus #undyne #mettaton #toriel 
Игры
There's a lot of overlooked dialogue that only happens if you kill certain characters and backtrack. I hope this video was informative! I do plan to work on the Ventus video very soon, but am always open to suggestions for UT/DR stuff as well. My patreon: patreon.com/dorked
Undertale Summer Newsletter Analysis: ruclips.net/video/XUBjh-IoGqg/видео.html
Other Undertale/Deltarune Analysis: ruclips.net/video/4VfHhBh1c8c/видео.html&pp=gAQBiAQB
Kingdom Hearts Analysis: ruclips.net/video/Ruy5aYUijGE/видео.html&pp=gAQBiAQB
My Undertale webcomic, Inverted Fate: invertedfate.com/chapters
Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
0:36 - Empty House (Toriel)
1:17 - A Bonely Town (Papyrus)
3:25 - Hero's Fall (Undyne)
4:16 - A Star's Soft Side (Mettaton)
6:43 - Snowdrake and the Canine Unit
8:35 - Effectiveness and Impact
10:49 - Conclusion
You know what I think a lot of people don't know. Is that if you reset after doing the date with Alphys (and don't go to the true lab), Alphys will mention feeling like they know you.
neutral routes can be scary at times, the leaderless call, sans being gone the whole time, dialogue changes, it makes neutral routes underrated, and scary at times.
Will you make analysis videos like these for Underverse like how some characters interact with each other?
My 5th favorite seen in all of undertale is neutral Undyne. The fact that the sad song plays, her melting symbolizing how her determanation is washing away, the way that barley anything changes for Alphys until when she did she comited suiside and the fact of when she talks about Alphys during it and saying over and over I won't die. Just sad.
ok
The Papyrus changes hurt because the game makes it very clear that he's not really too beloved or even aknowledged by most of the people in Snowdin. And yet, the moment he dies everyone can sense there's something important missing, but they're not sure what.
No one appreciates Papyrus, but they immediately notice it when he's gone.
IIRC the text for the sans call if you kill only papyrus talks about how everyone is just really sad and demoralized
@@Skywarslord Yeah, exactly. It shows that despite Papyrus' unpopularity, he left an impact on the underground.
Some days you don’t value what you have until it’s not there anymore
you don't really know what you have till it's gone
Everything has a reason to exist, without it, it’s empty
Man, Papyrus's death is enough to make ENTIRE town go into despair. Screw Genocide Route, killing Papyrus is enough for darkest timeline.
The worst timeline is probably the leaderless ending. That neutral call is just chilling.
@@Dorked i forgot, what was in it?
@@JezElectro13Sans just tell you that there's no one to take the throne and everyone is panicking and in despair.
No music plays, and if I'm not wrong, Sans tell you to go to hell
@@Jeduardo17 oh ok. You know it's serious when he doesn't say "get dunked on" but "go to hell". that's not even a joke.
@@Dorked it's seriously so haunting.
Snowdrake’s father has another set of neutral route dialogue:
* My son. .
* He was always making these
weird ice puns.
* I hated them, so he ran
away from home...
* I think I should try to
patch things up with him.
* Have you seen him?
* Have you seen my son?
Ooh, good catch. Somehow I didn't get that one when I was gathering footage. I assume that's if you kill Snowy.
@@DorkedYeah that’s right. I actually stumbled upon this dialogue when watching _PointCrows’_ playthrough of the game not so long ago. It’s interesting because he got the full neutral route experience - went through that whole character arc of just killing because that’s what you do, to slowly being guilt tripped by the game and realizing stuff like this had ramifications and coming to regret it. Quite exemplary perhaps to how Toby intended and designed the game to be experienced.
😢😢😢
@@MisterLambda Yeah that was a good playthrough. I recommend anyone who hasn't seen PointCrow's streams of Undertale to watch them.
You know, in the early days of this fandom the 'Sans took papyrus's scarf' thing was very common, but they totally forgot that he, indeed, took something from his dead brother in game. When you kill papyrus one of the gifts beneath the christmas tree dissappears. It's implied, therefore, that Sans took the gift that his brother never got to open
why not both, maybe the gift WAS a new scarf, that aside, now that I have realized that I can't not think of that. thanks for making me sad.
On a kinda unrelated note, it's funny how the fandom always depicted Papyrus with a scarf, when in reality he had a cape all along.
@@destroymennardshippers1701 Papyrus's cape, Sans' T-shirt with cartoon skeleton ribs, Sans' white slippers. Unofficial art for UT really had a hard time with the skelly bros.
Can't the blame people really, the dialogue and OW sprites will point to one thing, then the battle sprite will blur that thing confusingly. Problem of having the character designer not be a/the artist
NOOO THIS IS SO SAD AHHH
@@bummedmachinist7483tbf, sans had shoes in an official steam trading card
The Neutral runs have always been very interesting to me. Definitely very underrated and heartwrenching. The NPC’s talking about Mettaton always hit hard, I feel like the shopkeepers should have had different dialogue too.
It woulda been nice if they did. I even went to see if BP's changed, but it didn't. Was kinda a bummer as you'd think he'd have a LOT to say about the situation.
It really would have been cool if BP's dialogue changed, due to his opinion on Mettaton, you'd think it would.
@@DorkedWill you make analysis / character analysis videos like these for Underverse?
What really matters is that there is no Chara world ending business in a neutral route, so when you go and cause irreversible damage to the underground population the effects are there to stay.
The Alphys ending is basically what would happen in the aftermath of the genocide route if the world wasn't destroyed (and sans didn't die but not much would change if his fight still happened)
I always find the neutral route to be underrated. There alot of cool little details. Also like the omega flowery fight is the most tradtional of thr final fights but it still is amazing as you get back at flowery for taunting you.
This is one of the things that really bothers me when some people practically bully streamers into doing a pacifist run straight away - the neutral routes in undertale are very much part of the intended experience.
Yeah, when people railroad UT playthroughs, it takes away the fun of discovery. A game like UT is best experienced w/o knowledge.
Yet I still don't know if it's possible to get pacifist/genocide before encountering omega flowey
@@shawermus Well you can get pacifist/genoncide before omega flowey, but you can't get true pacifist
@@Kowery105
You can do True Pacifist before Omega Flowey
After date Undyne you go to Core and Undyne will call you, then go to snowdin and she will give you a letter, go to Alphys lab and you will start a date with both her, then go to true lab normaly to finalize True Pacifist
@@Nore2554if I remember correctly Undyne will never call you for the letter unless you've defeated omega flowey beforehand
Never knew about the shyren change. Hearing sans described as a hooded figure, just watching, is so spooky. Like I know he's been flanderized to all hell, but his actual in-game response to Papyrus' death is just. Whew. Masterful work.
Yeah, the thing about his reaction to neutral Papyrus death is how subtle it is. He's there, lurking, but remains largely unseen. He knows it'll probably be reset anyway, so the most he does is just... lurk.
@@DorkedUntil he calls you a dirty brother killer
It is notable that while sans can be very understanding toward the player actions, killing papyrus is the one thing he will never forgive.
To be honest this is so true
"Hooded figure" is kinda implying that he has the hoodie on, which is such a fanon thing to think about until you realize thats literally in the game
@@blackbloom8552Yeah, because Papyrus never had the desire to kill Frisk or bring them any harm in general, sp it's more of you being a jerk by killing him than it was in self-defense, and that's something Sans won't tolerate even if he knows Papyrus will be back in the next reset.
One bit of flavor text that changes with Toriel's death that always gets me is the text you get if you try to call Toriel after the Ruins: "Nobody picked up" if you spare her and "But nobody came" if you kill her. Subtle, but impactful.
Great video as always, Dorked!
Dang, I shoulda thought to include that. Great catch!
I accidentally killed Toriel and saw that
When I saw those 3 frogs one of them tell you that if you get some enemies low you can spare even if there name isn’t yellow but I got toriel to low.
@@Dorked Here's one thing I encountered but never again:
I don't know how. I tried replicating my exact movements, but I've never gotten it again, it might be to do with luck or something. I was doing a genocide route, and I had just killed a Snowdrake. I backtracked to go back to Box Road (I think that's what it's called), and saw Sans standing there. I talked to him, wondering why he was there, and he just said "..." a few times. I interacted once more, and he said, "don't touch my brother" or something, and the screen went black, and when it turned back to normal, Sans was gone.
@@TheRealRandomations were you fresh out of a dream when you remembered this? Did you blink and open your eyes and you were in bed? Were you dreaming?
@@TheRealRandomations can't have happened. used the modding tool and there is no npc at box road, and there is no dont touch my brother string.
I always found Undyne’s reaction to Papyrus’s death to be the most eerie. She doesn’t care about anyone else or anything else that she would otherwise be fighting for, and pretty much loses it at you for killing Paps. Part of me wishes her sprite in battle would differ a bit to show this more, maybe with a frown or shade over her eyes, just to show the damage done.
It woulda been cool to have a battle sprite change or alter the music to capture her emotions.
@@DorkedI feel like this instance in a neutral run could’ve used the unused Undyne battle music (y’know, the one that doesn’t sound enough like being heroically punched in the face?) to convey a more serious and less bombastic atmosphere
thank you youtube user @jackin_it
Maybe add a helmet? I think it eould be better than shade over her eyes.
It's a real shame a lot of the stuff on the Neutral routes gets overshadowed by the Pacifist and Genocide routes, there's a lot of interesting stuff in there that many people don't know about simply because they feel they have to go on one of these routes when playing
I think a big part of it is that people don't think to backtrack after finishing an area to interact with all the NPCs. There's this drive to keep going forward, to get to the ending, and not to really see the smaller details.
I think the neutral route is both the most interesting and the most likely timeline to actually happen.
@@Silthurnixyou think a child would kill someone?
@@goose93 Yes. Humans are hundreds of times more powerful than a monster. The only thing needed is intent and it is very easy to kill a monster, even if it is in self defense.
But you are right. The most accurate outcome would actually be the game over screen.
It isn't a lot of people feel they have to get Pacifist or Geno, it is because there is literally no reason to get Neutral unless you want to half do things. You lose out on an happy ending to get these lines of dialogue and miss out on a challenging fight if you don't commit. To pick Neutral is to deprive yourself.
To make matters even worse Neutral's "ending" isn't really an ending. It tells you to go back and do X. Since the lore of the game makes saving/loading canon this means Neutral really isn't an ending. Even Geno doesn't actually end things as the actual end of that Post-Geno Pacifist which a large part of the community has as their canon ending.
Can we talk about how Monsters seem to feel when something bad has happened? Nobody saw either Paps or Undyne die, and Mettaton wasn't Presumed to be dead, yet their deaths still affect a lot of people. Mostly Paps and Undyne though since Mettaton has some explanation, like absence of "Next Show", just next show in 5 minutes after "Finale" or that he isn't there to cheer workers at work.
Yeah, it's just a general vibe of unease. Toby is very good at pulling at the heartstrings with subtle things like that.
Shouldn't Alphys have seen Undyne's death through her cameras? Makes me wonder why she doesn't have dialogue about it.
@@fernalaw.7494 she says she forgot to watch it
@@JezElectro13 Ah, thanks.
@@JezElectro13 There's also the implication that she actually didn't forget but was busy in the True Lab.
I think there's two reasons no one really thinks of the Neutral Endings, and that's
1- It kind of lacks a sense of finality, right after the phone call at the end ( if you didn't kill Flowey), they show up to tell you how you could have tried to do things better
2- Back when it was popular, the peer pressure in the fandom that you HAD to do the Pacifist Route really discouraged people from trying to play the game in any other way,
Yeah, there is a lack of finality. The neutral endings give you ideas of what happens, but you don't see it unfold. You only get secondhand accounts, so that might not be everyone's jam.
I did pacifist because i didn't had the heart to kill mettaton and wanted to get him with his family all together lol
I guess I knew everything about undertale when I got it so I didn’t FEEL like killing anyone and wanting to reset the game makes me feel bad it’s a forced set ending but it’s a really good enedijg
I only do pacifist for the true reset but i personally find it the least enjoyable. i prefer the complexity of the netural route or the entire atmosphere changing in the genocide route.
I remember reading somewhere where Papyrus is a unique case to the other bosses where they're either trying to kill or telling you fight or leave Papyrus always gives you the option of spare before the final blow, meaning killing him is completely deliberate decision on hurting someone who's just going to let you continue regardless and who has already made clear he just wants friendship.
As for Undyne it does gives interesting insight on hers and Blook's relationship as she's always talking about wanting to be friends so knowing they want the same when you know that's impossible is so heartbreaking.
Finally Mettaton this and his neutral ending makes him even more of an interesting character, they are indeed way too self absorbed to the detriment of his close relationship but his desire of entertaining and making ppl happy is genuine, makes the pacifist ending where he realizes how much he's neglected his friends even better.
Yeah, you can only kill Papyrus when he is sparing you. Dude is TANKY.
Just adding here, Papyrus is not only making his intentions clear by sparing you and not killing you at all, it shows in his battle too. Dude’s have the ability to control his attacks so they don’t off you, write with them, summon a cool bone with sunglasses and a skate, etc and, the most interesting part, he does it without moving because he NEVER wants to hurt you. Undyne, Mad Dummy, METTATON who are trying to kill you for their own reasons, bounce, move a lot, etc. But characters who doesn’t really want to hurt you like Toriel or Asgore don’t move that much.
Papyrus doesn’t even move hIS JAW TO TALK. And we know he can do it thanks to the date. He is sTILL AS FUCK TO MAKE CLEAR HE DOESN’T WANNA HURT YOU, I LOVE THAT BABYBONES MAN
Something I've been sad fanworks don't explore very much is how Flowey has very clear favorites, who he does seem to have some fondness for even in his supposedly emotionless state. Papyrus is the obvious one, as he blatantly calls Papyrus his favorite, and how his relationship with Papyrus is relevant for the True Pacifist run's finale. And of course everyone knows how much he cares for Chara to perhaps an unhealthy degree. But between his parents, he seems to show a lot of very clear favoritism towards Toriel.
To me, the biggest evidence of this is in how he reacts to each of their deaths, and just generally how he reacts to whether you kill them or not. If it's anything other than a No Mercy run, then he doesn't seem to care about Asgore at all, and you could be quite easily forgiven for not even realizing that they're related until the reveal. if you kill Asgore, then he doesn't seem to care very much about how his father was just killed, he's not happy, sad, mad. He's entirely focused on whether or not you've learned the 'lesson' of Kill or be Killed, and the fact that he now has the Souls. Which makes it kind of sad that Asgore remains so effected by his children's death, but his son who's still around doesn't really care for him.
Meanwhile, no matter what you do in Toriel's fight, he's judging you in some way.
Kill Toriel? She couldn't save anyone, not even herself! (Hello, trauma over getting murdered because he refused to murder.)
Spare her, or kill then spare her? You're cheating! How long do you really think you can keep this up?
Kill everyone except Toriel? What, you don't think those other monsters could be someone's 'Toriel'?
Spare then kill Toriel, or kill Toriel several times? You're just as bad as him.
Kill everyone including Toriel? Chara, are you there?
And also, as you mention, the little bit with the Echo Flower. I don't doubt that Flowey has killed Toriel himself previously, but he doesn't do this for literally ANYONE else, Papyrus included. It honestly seems that, more than Sans, more than Asgore, if you kill Toriel, Flowey is the one who misses her most. Despite everything, he still misses his mom.
It's also very telling in the way he recounts his past during No Mercy. He woke up in Asgore's garden, so he really didn't have any kind of a choice when he stayed with Asgore first. But then the way he phrases going to live with Toriel. He thought if ANYONE could fix him, it HAD to be her. He thought there was NO WAY he couldn't still feel things for his mother.
And of course, there's the new Winter Alarm Clock dialogue, where back in the Ruins Flowey found Toriel passed out, and pulled her back to bed and left her a glass of water. Since Toriel also remembers seeing that same glass of water, this happened in the same timeline where Frisk fell. What really hurts is I've actually heard a theory that the reason Frisk fell was because THIS was the timeline where Toriel still recognized her son, and that caused Flowey to let it keep going for just a little longer than he usually would. I'm sure the popular headcanon is that Flowey hangs out in the Ruins because he's waiting for new humans to fall, or because that's where Chara is buried, and I'm sure those are really major reasons...but I can't help but wonder if 'because that's where his mom is' might also be a reason.
I do also agree, though, that Flowey seems to have Some Insecurities about being replaced by Toriel, probably speaking further about how he's still attached to her. If he really, genuinely didn't care for her at all, then what would it matter that she's lending out her old room to humans and baking pies for them and saying they can live a good life together and promising to protect them from the murderers outside the Barrier--excuse me, I mean outside the Ruins doors.
goddamn I never noticed this. wow
Like your headcanon which chara is buried underneath the bundle of flowers, and if you think about it, we dont know what frisk's life was before they fell, so maybe the bundle of flowers "barely" saved them hence the reason why chara is possessing frisk
Flowey's still a mama's boy, even after everything.
Chara and Asriel mirror their parents in ways Chara (Toriel) being more formal Asriel (Asgore) emotions controlling them but their preferences are the opposites
@@maybemints It goes a lot deeper than that but yep, you've got the right of it. Chara shows that Asgore was their favorite because they knitted him a sweater, and they both seem to have a shared love of plants and gardening. (Golden Flower drawings, Worn Dagger description).
Additionally, one could say that both Asgore and Chara tend to have the same ideas--Chara and Asgore both have an impulsive moment where they want to break the Barrier and kill all humans, which brings them in conflict with Asriel/Chara. Chara gives their soul to Asriel hoping he'll break the Barrier, while in a Pacifist run where you killed Flowey last run, Asgore will end his own life and ask Frisk to cross the Barrier and find some other way to free monsterkind, without a war.
But also, as you said, not just is Chara more formal like Toriel, they love puns like her(if you assume NarraChara's canon), they're emotionally stoic (Toriel is described as 'looking aloof' during her fight), they're the one who made the plan for Asriel while Toriel was described by Gerson as being 'the brains behind the throne'.
But at the same time, the parallels between Toriel and Asriel are really cool too. Fun fact, Toriel uses the same language before her fight that Flowey uses after a Neutral Run where you killed someone people, where he challenges you to prove you can survive without killing anyone next run. And during both their fights, they're projecting someone they love very much onto Frisk, someone they don't ever want to say goodbye to a second time...
And of course. Who doesn't know. 'Someone has to take care of the flowers.'
It's kinda sad to think about how Undyne tries very hard to get over the fact that Asgore is dead in the "Normal" Pacifist Route (the one after you defeat Photoshop Flowey, not after Asriel).
From what she knows, you killed him, and she understands that, but it just looks like she's replacing what was Asgore for her with you...
It's understandable and justifiable, through, but isn't it messed up...?
Yeah, it's rough because technically there was no other way to her knowledge, but it's painful because she loves Asgore so much. He's like a dad to her.
It's a very human reaction tbh, great writing to not pit her against the player like when they senselessly kill but instead to have her recognize that it was necessary despite her convictions about humans, killing, and allegiance and sympathy for Asgore. She's a battle-hardened warrior, and likely knows all too well what it's like to lose people she has cared about in her line of work, especially when they might have been partially in the wrong in a situation. She knows it's bullshit when the player kills Papyrus using 'self-defense' as a justification because he would never kill anyone in the first place despite his strength and she knows that. But with Asgore, she knows he has genuine reasons why mercy isn't an option for him anymore due to both his martyrdom and responsibility to his Kingdom. So she can see the logic behind those actions much easier in that instance, and it likely eats her up inside knowing that it had to happen. That someone she cared about was going to die regardless of what happened at the infinitely long corridor. Even if it would lead to a glorious future for monsterkind and provide her with a huge advantage in the war against humans, after seeing the mercy they can show it might not even be something she'd be interested in pursuing anymore. That is if Asgore even shattered the barrier with the seven souls after Frisk hypothetically dies. I'm not sure what he would do, maybe he would keep them all down there which is another very melancholic ending. He dislikes the war, and might just want to keep things the way they are for now, for the sake of his people not sending themselves out to either die or kill humans for their souls. He did have a human child of his own after all. Flowey can't beat him, so I assume he can't do much to intervene outside of tricking Asgore to hand the souls over which I imagine wouldn't work considering Flowey has likely fought Asgore before with this same goal. Undyne might shatter it herself given enough time where Asgore hasn't released the info to the public about what happened that day. Regardless, it's a very interesting moment in the narrative that almost feels liminal in the sense that it's so unexplored, skipped over and vacant.
Yeah, it's really sad, because she get's why you did it (or would have if Flowey kills him, but she doesn't know) but at the same time she still can't ignore the fact that he was so important for her, and that even you must have struggled, not wanting to kill him but knowing you had to, which is how Asgore himself sees the fight, it's very tragic.
Also IIRC the ''name'' given to that run is flawed pacifist (or, at least that's how I've seen it called by most people).
The neutral runs are really what Toby intended most players to get first, and it was what I got first. Honestly, I prefer that they are more open ended in nature and provide way more endings, I really love some of the neutral ending dialogue and other dtuff.
Y’know, if you played Undertale blind with only basic RPG knowledge, you should get a neutral run on your first attempt. Judging by the fact that most RPGs have you kill the enemies, it’s not likely that you would spare everyone you came across and get a True Pacifist Run. It’s not likely for you to go full Genocide Run on the first try either, as the game clearly guilt trips you for killing Toriel and makes it a chore to kill everyone else, further emphasizing that this isn’t what the game intended. However, because of the game’s popularity, most people are exposed to the critical acclaim towards the heartfelt Asriel fight and the thrill of the Sans fight before their first play though, and most either go for the Pacifist or Genocide route the first time they play.
there's something about the "> You just remembered something funny." text that is absolutely chilling. the fact that it only appears if you kill every single dog NPC and have a high murder rate really highlights the depravity of your actions.
Snowdrake's father's dialogue is so haunting if you kill his only child. He simply recounts the last he saw of him only to follow up with a SOUL-crushing "Have you seen him? Have you seen my son?"
People going missing is always something I feel most media tends to neglect the emotional angle of, treating disappearances as numbers to hype up the antagonistic force behind it all or as mysteries to be solved when in reality, most end in cold cases where that individual is simply never seen again and their family never gets closure. It's tragic, and Toby definitely used the concept to accentuate and drive home the game's message about how the player is responsible for EVERY life in the Underground.
Even though that snippet of dialogue probably isn't the most *objectively* gut-wrenching example of a character reflecting on a missing loved one in-game (King Mettaton pausing his extravagant tirade to talk about how worried he is for Alphys probably takes the cake imo, gives me chills every time), it left me feeling real hollow when I found out that dialogue even existed. It's so simple, yet puts me in such a state lol
Agreed. But Snowdrake's brother is Chilldrake. He isn't an only child. Also, I feel like the opposite is driven in during True Pacifist, even if you do everything right you can't SAVE everyone. There are spots forever empty on the end save screen. Asriel and the 'Goners' can't come back.
@@Hex.A.Decimal O damn I thought Chilldrake was a species since several can appear in the same fight and the dialogue says something about Chilldrake "looking for their friend." Does it say they're siblings in the art book or smth?
@@jocosejpeg I thought they said it at some point, maybe I'm wrong...
@@Hex.A.Decimal I looked it up and can't seem to find any discussion about it, on the wiki or otherwise. It isn't a big deal, I was just a tad confused
I also don't think I worded that whole responsibility thing all too well. I don't mean to say that the player is meant to save everyone, just that with the power they have over their file, they have the responsibility to try their best to save as many monsters as the game allows. You can't save every lost soul, but you still bear the consequences of failing to show mercy to those who had that opportunity
@@jocosejpeg Lol. I think I was wrong all this time about Chilldrake, always thought it was Snowy's older brother for some reason but there are two in the overworld.
No, you didn't really word it wrong, and you are entirely right. It's more the duality of the game, hammering in how precious life is and how your decisions have so much impact, but tragedy happens no matter how much you 'do right'.
This really shows how much dialogue Toby made for the game, and how he decided to account for almost everything. Side note: the slowed down Fallen Down is actually called Empty Town in the Demo OST. Great work as always!
Yeah, Empty House is pretty chilling. There's a lot to see in Undertale that requires going outta your way to find it. xD The Flowey echo flower in Waterfall wasn't discovered until MONTHS after the game came out.
@@Dorked I actually didn't know about that either!
Yeah there's even a dialogue if you buy the 9999c donut from muffet with cheats
Undine also has a line of dialog for Snowdrake. I remember it coz the first time I played I went blind and I was killing some enemies to increase my hp, while sparing the rest. But when Undyne mentions that I killed a young comedian, really made me change my approach to the game.
I think what many people forget is, that there is no Neutral Route in which you absorb Asgores soul.
But there is also no Neutral Route in which you stay in the underground.
Something doesn't add up here...
Apparently Toby said the six human souls pushed Frisk through in an email, which like. Obviously that's not game material, but "at least one human and one monster soul" to leave means it's possible within the framework of the game.
@@Dorkedwhere is this email?
@Dorked I had to read this twice. I thought you ment that the souls put Frisk in an email and pushed them threw. Makes much more sense now lol
...frisk email. OK
@@floor_tileim purposefully misinterpreting it as this bc this is funnier
Honestly, I find the Neutraul Boss Deaths a whole lot more disturbing than the Genocide's versions. Genocide Papyrus tells us he believes in us. However, Neutral says, "Alas, poor Papyrus!". Undyne, instead of heroically sacrificing herself, melts out of the sheer Determination of trying not to die all while screaming, "I WILL NOT DIE!!!." MTT, instead of a comedic moment isn't prepared to loose at all. The dialogue and as shown here the aftermath of Neutral Deaths just feels more creepy and disturbing to me.
I knew about the stuff with Toriel and Papyrus, but not Undyne, and definitely not Mettaton. Mettaton is honestly probably my least favorite of Undertale's main characters. I don't dislike him per se - I love his sheer force of personality, I appreciate his arc of realizing his value to his audience and reconnecting with his old friends, and I like how he's a monster who loves humans and represents the both the good and bad of the human side of Asgore's war. But I always felt like he wasn't criticized enough by the narrative for his embrace of humanity's worst economic practices, and specifically how he treats employees like Burgerpants. Him rekindling his relationships with Napsablook and Shyren felt a little hollow considering he didn't seem to be any less of an asshole to the people who work for him.
But, uh, I guess it was literally just Burgerpants that he mistreated??? I wonder why him in particular. My best guess is that Mettaton can't handle any kind of rejection - he's able to be generous to everyone else at the hotel because they're all adoring fans in addition to employees, but maybe Burgerpants was the one of the few who criticized him, which led to Mettaton resenting him and using his position of power to take out his frustration on him. This would be consistent with the King Mettaton endings, and how Papyrus specifically says that life sucks for anyone who doesn't worship Mettaton, implying that those who do worship him might actually be getting on alright. Maybe him having such a strong adverse reaction to rejection is a result of self-image problems from before he had his real body? Not that that would excuse it - his treatment of BP is still a black mark against him as far as I'm concerned, even if it is a one-off thing.
Nevertheless, this video has shown that there's a lot more to Mettaton than I gave him credit for, and I definitely have a much better appreciation for why you decided to portray him in the heroic light you did in IF. And as you said in the video, it's super fascinating that Toby decided to make this side of him so hidden. I think it might've been to make a point about how, no matter how unlikeable someone might seem, their life still brings good and happiness to those around them, and the world would still be worse without them in it, reinforcing the game's anti-violent messages. Any player who might look at the "labyrinth of bad choices" he's created and feel justified in killing him has those NPCs waiting for them, to remind them that death will always leave scars on the world, and to ask them if it was really worth it.
So, uh, yeah!!! Great video!!!
My going theory is that Burgerpants stealing from the job to impress chicks, MTT took that as an opportunity to just single him out. Great observations, though! I think that's entirely possible why Toby kept the more charitable traits hidden behind a neutral kill.
The fact that the dog food bag changes from being half full to half empty when you kill the dogs is one of the most ingenious details in the game, honestly. It's so subtle and shows just how much Toby Fox thought about the consequences of EVERYTHING you do in the game.
Imagine if after EVERY location, Flowey gave you another mini-judgement before Sans gives you THE Judgement?
I think the reason we didn't see that was mainly because Flowey was supposed to be something you kinda forget about until Asgore, making his return more shocking.
@@Dorked that does make sense actually.
In fact, there are points where you can spot him ducking into the ground if you backtrack, like the first time you meet Sans. If you backtrack immediately after the lamp then you can see Flowey pop into the ground.
Neutral Undyne is probably one of the coolest things to me. So many different ways to make her dislike you, even without killing her, even before the fight with your actions against Monster Kid.
And then the death... wouldn't feel that remorseful in a game until Noelle.
Personally undyne's neutral fight should have been significantly harder if the player kills papyrus.
Something in-between of the normal and undying fight to show how much she wants the player dead
Then again, you see how out of it she is her in pre-battle dialogue.
She probably isn't in the mood for fighting with Papyrus dead, wanting revenge aside. She still does the bombastic helmet-offing speech regardless of what monsters you kill, complete with a whole new "knight in shining armor" line... EXCEPT with Papyrus. Then she's just depressed.
Another thing about killing undyne is when you are walking where she would of chased you papyrus calls you (if you spared him aswell) and he says the same thing he does if you do try to spare undyne i cant fully remeber the call but he says something like "why dont you me and undyne go to her house sometime." For me this is especially chilling since papyrus obviously doesnt know but it still stays the same like its still setting in that you just killed some one even if this is just a video game. Congrats if you read this rant lol😅
YEAH, Papyrus still calls regardless, which hits really hard when you consider what you've done.
Honestly neutral endings might be my favorites, I just appreciate the amount of optional depth you can find in them and I’m glad there getting their attention they deserve in this video. Thank you so much!
No prob! I'm happy to spread light on overlooked aspects of the game.
Undyne also have special dialogues if you kill Snowdrake or Shyren.
Yeah, I forgot to include those, which is my bad. There was just a lot to cover!
This is exactly why deltarune having only one ending won't be the terrible thing the fandom thinks it will be.
I think "one ending" will probably have an asterisk and there's more we just don't know yet. xD
@@Dorked Yeah it could be one ending neutral route style that actually means 90 ending.
@@DorkedDoesn't it say on Steam "One ending...?"
@@markopujic660 I believe so, yes. Either that or "One ending(?)"
Why does the fandom think that Deltarune having one ending is a bad thing and why does this video prove that it isn't?
Makes me curious to see how other characters in hometown and other places will change as you go down the Weird Route. Seeing how you only learn of Mettaton's more compassionate side if you've killed him, it would be interesting (and probably tragic) to hear what others have to say about Berdly in his abscence. Knowing Toby he'll probably reveal that he was one of the town's most kind and caring people who made everyone feel better about life when they were feeling down, his commitment to his academic studies inspiring others to persevere in their own pursuits, his positivity shining bright and making all around him happier and brighter too, and you killed him just because you thought he was annoying from your perspective alone. It's easy to see from what we know and the context of the wide-reaching changes we see when people are killed in Undertale that killing off Berdly could cause terrible repercussions for Deltarune's world. I'd be interested to see more speculation about that.
After all, he had a job. Maybe you could go to his work place and everyone would be worried about him
Since he didn’t disappear, he just fell into an unexplainable coma, so everyone will merely be worried about him…
Imagine if all that really happens is that the next school day he arrives late because he caught a cold and that's it. Just a cold.
1:25 When I played through Undertale again, I was doing a high EXP neutral route, as a self imposed challenge to beat the bosses as fast as possible (with violence). I killed all but 1 monster before getting into Snowdin Town, because I didn't want to accidently trigger the Genocide Route, after killing Papyrus, I went around Snowdin at some point idk when.
It was genuinely daunting to see everyone around town be disheartened and hurt at his disappearance, especially while Snowdin's cheery theme still played, which added to the eerieness of it all.
neutral routes are totally overshadowed by "maximalistic endings". kinda explains why toby went for "one ending, multiple paths" type of game in deltarune. though neutral endings in undertale can be so different, it makes me wonder that if things always end up the same in deltarune and player's choices don't affect it, then there must be a reason why an ending happens regardless. maybe that's a reason why multiple paths exist - to have as much information as possible to answer why deltarune story ends the way it ends
It also depends on if the ending is 100% the same regardless or if it's like... the overall events don't change but there are subtle branches.
I'd be interested to see a video on Flowey, because for a lot of people he shows up twice in the Ruins and then, if you don't count Sans talking about him at Grillby's, he just randomly shows up again at the end of the neutral route, when in reality he and references to him are all over the place. On this topic I'd also love to see you talk about the different dialogue he was after the Toriel fight and his own after you spare him, his friendship with Papyrus or the Alarm Clock Dialogue. Keep up the great work!
That really made me realise overall that Mettaton isn't actually as selfish - matter of fact he seems pretty supportive and understanding, a lot of people overlook the NPCs for Burgerpants and Alphys' dialogue of him but when you look a bit closer, Papyrus really does have good reasons to like him huh. IF!Mettaton really isn't that out of character compared to the original guy after all
One thing I do find interesting is with every neutral run, no matter what you do, Flowey will always take the souls. Even after being defeted in his Photoshop form , if you go back to fight Asgore right after getting your save file back.... There he is.
It doesn't matter if you kill him or not in the end, the 6 souls are gone. I see it as a blessing and a curse.
A curse to the monsters by having THEIR king, THEIR chance of freedom and some of THEIR friends snached away in a span of a day.
Its a blessing for you because you don't have to face the consequences of your actions. You're "free" from the underground. You dont have to see the tears of the families you destroyed. You don't have to worry about any monster wanting to take revenge on you. You won.
And its all thanks to your best friend.
I'm not sure if someone else mentioned this, but there is secret dialogue with Clam Girl if you killed Undyne.
What is it?
@@EmilysLovelyBakery She says "I sense a disturbance in the nearby aura..." Followed by "I think you should leave that girl alone."
@@justsomerandomuser1573oh! That is interesting
@@justsomerandomuser1573 Frisk: the fuck is ya gonna do if i dont
@@justsomerandomuser1573 :0 with clam girl having the "suzy"/susie deltarune reference, what r the chances she's referring to her? ...haunting
I believe the Undyne monologue changes are the harshest: She drops the exaggerated, heroic themes in a pacifist route and instead uses that time to lament over the deaths of who she remembers. Notably Papyrus, despite always answering within two calls remains left to dust, but also minor characters such as the dogs from Snowdin.
I had no idea that people even reacted to Mettatons death, I never killed him in a neutral run and I never went back to check, so to me, it seemed he was always just a horrible boss who made weird and concerning choices
makes me think about him differently now knowing that he was charitable and kind to others
every time I talk about it watch videos on this game I swear there’s always something new to learn
What I find the most dreadful about killing Papyrus is that Sans continues to seem like his regular self, but in a lot of instances, the game makes it clear that you've taken something VERY important from him.
He even goes on to directly ask you after the ending what Undyne would if he had the heart to tell her that you killed his brother with those blank, souless eyes. I truely believe that without the promise he made to Toriel, he would've had no problem killing you.
Backtracking dialogue in general is really interesting in this game. If you go back to Hotland after beating Mettaton, nearly every NPC will use the phrase "So spicey" in their dialogue.
I knew about the Hotland NPCs' reactions to Mettaton's death, but Napstablook saying they were about to go try and befriend Undyne before it was "too late"... *ow. that hurt.*
Neutral Runs are very underrated and I think that's why a lot of people want to make fangames about it. We have the Conceptualized Neutral Run with the cringy fanon Sans but I want to see more of the story process with other missing characters.
Like how horror tale is based off of the “Empress Undyne” route
The Neutral endings don’t get as many mentions as Genocide and True Pacifist, so seeing a video that goes more in depth about some endings and dialogue changes is really intriguing!
If you kill the Royal Guards, Nice Cream Guy goes out of business. He appears really depressed, but you can buy Nice Cream from him (in a going-out-of-business sale) unlike the Pacifist Route.
His dialogue is really sad and genuinely made me feel guilty about killing the Guards.
I believe this is because the Royal Guard on the left is canonically a bunny, as you can tell from his armor, which makes me think that the royal guard was either a friend or a relative of the Nice Cream Guy
This is much an informative UNDERTALE video! The Neutral route always interested me but I couldn't go out of my way to kill the people of the world since it was too heartbreaking for me. Thanks for showing me and everyone else the little things Toby added to the game.
Here's a little something to support you. ❤️
For some reason, I didn't get the notification for this until now, but thank you so much!
Neutral route are so underrated and that's weird
It have more potential than genocide or even pacifist
My favorite neutral route is king papyrus
King Papyrus is such a heartbreaking ending. When he drops the chipper mask and admits he's losing hope. Just... god.
@@Dorkedand actually show something
Papyrus is considered more important than someone like napstablook
The fact that he's seen as a possible leader (even if it's because they don't have any other options) says a lot
never knew abt the lion girl one or even made the connection to her in deltarune, even now this game can still make me cry
I genuinely didn't know about the ""easter egg"" of the lion character
It's incredibly how after years in still learning stuff about this game
I just want to state, another part of extra dialogue that is rarely seen on youtube is that of some of the later boss's dialogue after you had spared them/went on their dates. Especially Undyne's, she basically says she gets the feeling that you were her friend, but then just chalks it up to mind control. I think Alphys had some interesting lines too. Man makes me almost want to do two full playthroughs just to see them
Thank you for making this video. As a creator myself, I am saddened when the audiance doesn't get to experience all the worldbuilding and immersion I've included.
You showing off these small changes that make the world feel so much more real helps all of us appreciate toby even more
I can't believe I've never thought to go back and check dialog like this. I never knew about a lot of these details. Thanks for bringing it up like this. Blooky's comments about befriending Undyne are interesting, although I'm surprised they don’t have much to say about Shyren despite being close friends from what i can tell. It's so nice to see the relationship all the monsters at MTT resort have with their boss. And as fitting as it is, I never realized Papyrus went to Grilby's to get milk, I thought he'd avoid going there all together except for Sans related shenanigans.
i didn’t know about almost any of these interactions until now, its genuinely impressive how much detail was put into this game to still be finding new dialogue bits 8 years after the game’s release
Thank you so much for making this video! I’ve always wanted to learn more about the neutral routes, and I didn’t know anything in this video despite being a major Undertale fan. I always look forward to your content!
I did not know most of this. As would be expected. But... god, that Napstablook dialogue is heartbreaking! When you call Undyne near their house, Undyne tells you about how sweet they are and tells you to cherish them. They could be friends!! Augh!!
This gave me a new perspective on mettaton that I didn't have before. Thanks.
this is such a great video. i love your analysis’, undertale is probably one of if not my favorite game of all time and seeing such great thoughts be brought to the table makes me very happy :)
1:26 very small correction but Nacarat Jester is NOT their real name. That was a name someone put on the undertale wiki 6 years ago without any source to back it up, and everyone just ran with the name. The name "Nacarat Jester" was actually the name of the user who came up with that hoax. "reddemon" is their name in the files.
Once upon a time I tried to find every bit of neutral dialogue I could in Undertale, and made a short series of videos on what dialogue can change based on your actions, but god there's just so much, and Undertale's so huge! There's no chance of finding it all on your own, but steadily over the years I've found out more and more, and series pointing out these details have popped up (I'm a huge fan of the Undertale Secrets series by 2 Left Thumbs). And of course, some of the most unknown details arrive from doing what you shouldn't and killing monsters just to see what happens. There's so much nuance!
Love your videos and the analysis of the Neutral runs! I’ve always wanted a video on this but couldn’t make it myself due to being insecure of my voice. The difference when killing Papyrus always had me insane.
Your videos are genuinly great, they're fun to watch, informative, and always actually thought out. Also you voice is nice, and fits these vids. Its something you can listen to like a small podcast.
The finer details are exactly why these games are so emotionally compelling. Love this ♡
Thank you for another very interesting video! I hope things work out excellently for you!
i have no idea how toby managed to make the game work like this... like, how did he manage to take pretty much every single decision you make into account? and sometimes it's just to change one tiny interactable object somewhere, the attention to detail is ridiculously good
You have singlehandedly made me fall back in love with this game! I was maybe eight or nine when it first came out and I played it for the first time, so I kind of locked into that perspective. You’re really broadening my view of this game. Commenting for boosting the algorithm, thank you for doing what you do! Genuinely brightened a crappy week.
This video was really nice! I knew some dialogs changes, but I didn't knew it was that many!
What a great analysis! I’ve always been intrigued by Spamton’s backstory and how he fits into the larger plot of deltarune, as well as his similarities to Mettaton, which I believe would make a great analysis.
I love that you’re still making UNDERTALE content so long after it’s creation. Not many people even remember it aside from the soundtrack and sans. Thanks for these reminders and great videos about the greatest game.
Thanks to this video I discovered unique interactions and dialogues that I have never seen in 8 years since the game's release. This wonderful game never ceases to amaze, thank you so much for this great video.
Very very good video!! I didnt know about most of those. Undertale keeps suprising me after all this time
this video is the first one to make me cry in a long time. absolutely beautiful
ADORE this video, i’ve always wondered about the specific dialogue differences in neutral routes, but never had the time to check. Hella subscribing, i love to listen to your videos!
You aren't a real woman
And neither are mew mew or the lion
@@boogaloobender3462 my god you are everywhere
A crime that i havent been subscribed all this time! I thought i subbed after watching your papyrus and alphys vids, definitely fixing that now!
I just wanted to say how you've quickly become my favorite comfort RUclipsr. I have ADHD and trouble with my attention span, but you keep your video's interesting and short. Even then, I managed to sit through your longer videos without a problem. Thank you ♡
Dorked makes another UT analysis! i already like it.
There was this one time I was watching some videos related to neutral route endings and one was about killing all and only the bosses, and sans mentions something about how every important leader disappeared overnight, it still sends chills up my spine to this day the thought of that, the thought of every leader every person you relied on just gone, just like that
Neutral route is my favorite route just because of this, loved replaying through the game and doing things just so slighty diferente and seeing how it affect edição the world
That's really cool! Thank you for making this video
No matter how many times I've played Undertale I can never bring myself to even kill a single NPC and thus video explains why
Something I find great about fighting Papyrus is that he's very difficult to kill, you do very little damage against him and can only easily kill him AFTER he spares you, destroying any merit of "self defence" that fans like to place onto the human's actions.
You have to actively choose to kill Papyrus, meaning the consequences are directly because of your actions.
It's always bothered me how common criticisms I've seen of Undertale are "There's basically no worldbuilding" and "The only paths that matter are pacifist and genocide and if you get anything beyond that then you played the game incorrectly." I feel like anyone who says that has to be like. Missing the point? I get that cultural osmosis of Undertale on the internet has made it difficult, but that sense of discovery and slowly piecing together a full picture of the underground and its characters from route to route is Undertale's whole thing. To say that it doesn't contribute to the worldbuilding or that the other paths don't matter just seems in bad faith to me.
Yeah, it's not that there's no worldbuilding. You just have to actively seek it. Even in passive runs, you can learn new things by backtracking and talking to NPCs.
I can’t believe it’s been years and I’m still learning stuff about this game
finally someone talks bout dis. this one if the things which made undertale so unique and significant for me
I just found this channel. Keep up the good work!
Very cool video. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
This was a nice video to listen to while I made breakfast! Thanks for creating such lovely content ❤
Ooh another great video!!
Neutral routes get overlooked so much by it’s older siblings. They are still as important
genocide is the mean oldest who is always blamed by the parents, pacifist is the favourite youngest, and neutral is the ignored middle child
This is super interesting, especially the MTT part
wtf I’m still learning things about this game after 5 years, I had no idea most of these dialogues existed
I really enjoyed this video. Toby is so good at world building.
Honestly I think the changes in the Neutral routes are scarily effective. It's almost gut wrenching to see the outcomes. In Genocide, there's no one left to be worried. Meanwhile in the Neutral runs, everyone is still around, but things are slightly more empty. It hurts to see characters be waiting for those that will never return.
I think Papyrus is the most painful of all of them. Sans is just GONE, Undyne IMMEDIATELY tells something is wrong because of his dedication, and the entirety of Snowdin is very VERY different in tone.
I knew about the toriel, papyrus and undyne stuff but the mettaton information is completely new to me! Thanks for sharing!
Good video as always!
Another pretty interesting thing is the dialogues after the Pacificist ending
After you go back, every single npc in the entire game has dialogues about freedom
0:49 Tories used fire magic for the fire place now that’s she’s dead it’s gone…
Nice video! You gained a new sub!
Aw hell yeah! I love deep looks into the weird and wonderful Neutral routes, I feel like they often don't get enough attention.