Really helpful video, thanks for your time to produce it. I'm in the market for a NAS storage device and my default was to look at Synology however I feel, and share, your disappointment so this particular customer WILL be looking at other manufactures. Thanks again.
I really appreciate this video! I've been looking into getting my very first NAS, and everything has been pointing me to Synology, as it comes across as simpler for a novice to use. However, I was discouraged by the Apple-esque philosophy of proprietary adaptors, reduced spec, and higher cost compared to the competition. Now hearing that they're even going to prevent 3rd party drives, has just put me right off them entirely. Thank-you for the warning!
I think I bought my last Synology NAS last summer. The sheer wisdom of Synology to not accept other manufacturer's drives and to not support 2,5 or 5 Gbps is unacceptable. It's a solid OS , I'm using it since my first ds-101. I'm feeling a bit sad to know that I have to switch. I just have to. Thanks for your video. It confirmed my sentiment about Synology.
This is the first time I've seen your video, and I understand your frustration. I was about to buy one now now after seeing this clip, I'm going to reconsider.
I've had my 918+ since 2017. It's faultless. The great thing about the 923+ is if you pop a 10G card in it, direct connect that to your PC/Mac and connect the other ethernet port to your network you have a crazy fast storage pool at the end of a bit of Cat6a cable. The free software that comes with the device pays for it'self. It might not be cutting edge, but it's sold, stable and safe. If I'm choosing to put my data on it, that's what I want. It's also easy to use and lots of online video's to guide you if needed. Don't get me wrong, some of the modals could beniffit from some speed / function increases but overall its a great product.
Beside the "downgrade" to use only Synology certified own brand DRIVES and RAM there is another flaw compared to the DS920+. The AMD Ryzen processor inside the DS923+ doesn't have an integrated GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) compared to the DS920+. Which means, if you want to use the DS923+ as a media server (Plex Server) the decoding of any media files has to be done entirely by the CPU. For 4k content this can be quite problematic depending on which codec was used for encoding. For business purposes and to use as file server this shouldn't be a big concern. But for Media services this flaw is an absolute NO NO...
Yes you are completely right! I think this is where Synology loses the enthusiast segment of their customers, because as you wrote - businesses might not care that much.
@@DigitalJediDk Do you think Synology have completely given up on integrated graphics? Or might we see them again? I was holding out for this new generation of Synology devices so I could get my first ever nas for Plex streaming but the lack of integrated graphics means I'm stuck between investing in years old Synology hardware, go to a competitor or wait another 2 years and hopefully Synology gets their act together by next gen.
Yup. I had to buy new old stock DS1520+ with Intel to get integrated graphics. Synology are gonna lose a LOT of customers by A) not having integrated graphics anymore B) insisting on proprietary 3rd rate Synology branded HDDs that cost twice the price of the #1 and #2 rated HDDs. Words cannot express how disappointed I am with them.
@@AndySomething It really doesn't matter at this point. People either bought old gen Synology or went with a competitor. They are so, so, so far behind in features that are taken for granted in the industry (worm, tier, etc.). Now you have to pay a small fortune to get 10 gbe, storage pools, and 8 gigs ram. It is a total joke really. I went with a QNAP 453E and extremely happy added 1 TB of WB Red NVME in QTier and it is perfect, upgraded the entire network to 2.5gbe on the cheap, it cuts through 4k transcoding like a knife in butter. For SMB/Prosumer it is a great value and works great. Synology offers nothing really at this point...
Well I prefer Intel for sure but I don't consider this a deal breaker for me at all. I have absolutely no need for plex since I have the ability to stream everything I could ever want. I haven't purchased a DVD or Blu-ray in hell 10yrs. Plex imho is for old people that can't let go of old technology.
You can order replacement plastic caddy clips as they tend to fail over time. DS923+ is a huge STEP backwards IMO and the DS920+ is only saved by the Intel QS capable CPU. While DSM is the best off the shelf NAS OS, QNAP offers more powerful units for those not wanting to run a DataCenter in their house.
I have DS214 Play since 2014 and working well. I am using NAS for CCTV, Plex, storage & black up. Previously as web server too. Never had any issues. Today I feel that my Play sometimes is consuming 100% CPU. So time for upgrade and was aiming for 923+ but after your video and comments related to GPU decoding I step back. Maybe will buy 423+ at least have Intel.
Synology not implementing 2.5E and the lackluster nvme support is a major downgrade and why I'm holding off on getting another 8-bay unit Synology unit. I suspect we may have to wait until 2024 to see 2.5E support thought I'm hoping it will maybe surprise us this year. We shall see!
I assume you mean 2.5G. If you are using a 2 drive bay you are probably running a 1G connection anyway, so what is the point? In any case, if you need 10G you can add a card for that.
@@Tugela602.5G is around the speed of a typical hard drive. If you have your NAS connected to 1G, you're limiting it to less than half of the available speed.
@lukastemberger The typical hard drive will do about 100MB/s, which is pretty close to 1G (110MB/s). A 2.5G link is going to be limited by drive speed unless you are using two drives to write to simultaneously.
@@Tugela60 I don't know what drives you're using, but I haven't seen an HDD that does less than 200-250MBps in a decade. If you put them in most RAID configs it's more than that.
From what I've heard in regards to the m.2 storage pools is that Synology were going to release this feature with DSM 7.2, but decided to include an early beta with the release of the DS923+ hence why only Synology drives can create storage pools. It did this because it felt that maybe not many people will upgrade to the DS923+ due to lack of new features
Agree with your comments. I've got an old Synology NAS (214), and need to upgrade. I love their software (DSM), and wanted to stick with Synology. I've had my eye on the DS920+ (transcoding support), but they're now discontinued and am having difficulty finding them in stock in my area. That leaves the 923+ (or 1522+). But, with all of the handicaps that Synology keeps purposely building into their hardware I'm thinking I need to look elsewhere (Asustor, QNAP), or build my own TrueNas device. Hopefully people start talking with their wallets and not buy their product, and maybe they'll change their strategy. I doubt it'll happen, but one can wish.
Thank you so much for your comment! I agree the DSM software really provides some nice features and DSM is actually almost the only reason that I decided to buy a new Synology unit.
I got my 920 off of Ebay. It got thrown around in shipping so much the battery was rolling around loose so I had to disassemble it to put the battery back in. That being said the seller was excellent and offered to send a new one. It wasn't her fault the shippers were so careless so I decided to just keep it. It's been rock solid so far. Just stick with 99+ feedback sellers.
I went with a QNAP 453E and couldn't be happier. QTS has so many features esp. with qnap club, the hardware is really good. The nvme options are really good, went with Qtier with 2 WD red nvme's and 4 WD red drives for main raid. For what I paid for it, it really is the best all around NAS, the 464 is also a good choice. Good luck! Synology make so much margin, they don't need the numbers anymore. The 923 really requires you to buy the 10gbe, if you add nvme your buying their stuff, so they are making 500 extra on every 923 they make, 1gbe is really inexcusable to me in 2023, not to mention the old gen1 usb.
@@km3481 - I am also looking at QNAP. While my Synology is working perfectly, the company is no longer supporting it with DSM7, kind of planned obsolescence. But now they also removed the main feature I rely on, USB DAC/Speaker Out. With that I was able to use the Audio Station and DS Audio to control my hifi, get all the streaming, etc etc. Life was good.
I was about to drop $3k to upgrade to a DS3622sx+ from my DS1817+ & DX517 until I learned about how Synology has become customer-hostile given their changes to DSM related to non-Synology drives. So after a ton of research, I spent my $3k on hardware for TrueNAS instead. #fwiw
I also bought the 923+ and didn't stick to the compatibility list. Both the four hard drives from WD and the 16GB storage expansion from Kingston are not on this list. And the result: The system works. BUT: Warnings, warnings and more warnings in the info center. I'll probably leave out the NVME's for now. Thank you for the warning.
whats the realiable harddisk to use in NAS, Thanks for sharing these awesome vids, youre doing s excellent job, presenting in a professional way, good studio and video setup! and u have a good sense of humor in your vids.
It seems like this would be a violation of Anti-trust laws in the United States. I'm not sure about Europe but I recall companies getting sued by the FTC for these types of trade practices. E.G. when Microsoft Forced users to install Internet Explorer by default.
i am currently using the DS918+ and have installed two M.2 drives as storage pools. However, these can only be installed using manual SSH commands and everytime the Synology firmware is updated i have to run a batch file to make the M.2 drives available again. Although this works, it's still pretty annoying that there is no official support for standard M.2 drives as storage pools.
Thanks for your review! I believe I understood that you can use compatible nvme ssd drive in Synology DS923+, but only for caching and not for storage pools. Is that correct?
Thank you for your comment! Yes that is true, however you CAN use NVME drives as storage pools as long as you buy the nvme drives that Synology manufacture.
I bought a DS723+ which has the same limitation, for me it's less of an issue (but I agree annoying). NVME drives are still very expensive per TB, what I found was setting up a read/write cache is quite good, if you are sending a terabyte of data to the NAS, it gets write cached there, including all your filesystem metadata, so your 3.5" drives feel very responsive, it's a huge quality of life improvement. Similarly if you have 1 TB NVME cache and say 24TB of storage and you're editing videos for example, they will be moved to the NVME read cache, boosting your performance, almost giving you the experience of a 24TB NVME. It seems a better use of the NVMEs than an extra 1TB of storage? - to me anyway.
So glad you posted this video (and the comments you've shared below)! I'm in the market for a new NAS and I was looking at Synology as a power efficient upgrade to my 8 year old Lenovo ThinkServer running TrueNAS. I was weary about buying a Synology system because of the lack of 10GbE/25GbE, but the form factor and simplicity was enticing. After seeing these quality issues, I'm going to pass on Synology. I also looked at Asustor and QNAP, but their software has had numerous security issues over the past few years. I guess I'll be doing more research on a DIY build.
Thank you so much for your comment! Synology has unfortunately also had and still have some issues in terms of security however they seem to do something to mitigate the risks.
I got the 923+ just recently and didn't experience the problems this guy mentions. Some videos are likely sponsored by competitors and never disclosed. I personally love my 923+ and would definitely buy another Synology NAS.
Super interesting! Did you manage to get a storage pool of nvme drives working through the DSM software? Sometimes companies hire people to try to tone down critique as well 😏 #notSponsored
Whilst I understand your frustration I came to hear about the DS923+ generally, I want to move up from DS420j and have BTRFS, fast snapshots, upgradable memory, expansion cab opportunity etc. and maybe put some SSDs in for cache only. I'm assuming other than the SSD not useable as a storage pool direct that everything is good?
@@DigitalJediDk I'm definitely not sorry I bought it, the confidence to throw away and restructure things knowing you have snapshots and can review over and over before reclaiming the space had been great. Got rid of about 1.7TB of old VMs and duplicates and it's been really great. Also got the synology-csi driver working with my home lab k8s cluster on iSCSI including snapshots with restores fully tested. I had been wishing I had bought bigger drives in the Amazon sale recently until managing to get down to 50% utilisation after all the change. Great unit I think and there's still 5 more slots I could add to it if I want. My usage is iSCSI and streaming media off it so still holding off on doing the week long analysis to see if SSD cache is worth it.
I share your concerns. I like my Synology 918+ in many ways and hoped to upgrade it with a 923+ this spring. I came across many of the same problems you did with the 923+. I decided to postpone my update cycle another year to see what happens.
Yes, please make a video about migrating from one NAS to another. I have an older 2 bay Synology NAS and I will be buying the DS720+ and hopefully just migrating from one NAS to the other
Now that Ubiquiti UNAS Drive has released would u recommend a video editor like myself with storage needs of 10 TB per year to go for something like Synology DS1522+ or this new UNAS to be my FIRST NAS storage unit?
They have really knee capped their crummy hardware. I recently replaced a failing 918 with a 920 even tho I knew the 923 was about to launch. If it wasn't for DSM and the apps I would've bailed on Synology. I understand there's a balance between security and flexibility but synology seems to want to turn a Linux based system in an Apple proprietary device with no flexibility for end users. Especially when it comes to supported external hardware like the old days. Good luck finding a hard drive with the exact model # and firmware they approved. 2 USB ports really? And then they won't even support a hard drive caddy with a couple of drives. A UPS takes one USB so you actually only have a single one. One back up drive and your done. Seems they are focused on larger business customers these days.
@@Tugela60 If you ever need tech support the first they mention it that the drives aren't on their list, implying that the problem might be because they are not.
@@tweedeldee8122 That only means they can't be sure of providing a solution to the problem because they may not be able to replicate it due to the equipment being different. It is a liability disclaimer, they don't refuse to provide support.
You made a 10 minute video because the NEW for 923+ Feature of using M.2 NVME drives as another drive “pool” only works with the Synology 400gb or 800gb drives. I think it sucks the capacity is so low on those when an M.2 used for cache can be 4TB. I think you protest too much, all things considered, i was thinking of making one M.2 drive a large SSD cache, and the other to serve as an SSD shared drive pool which is an awesome feature. I wonder whah the 24+ models will offer?
I'm looking to get a NAS from this line, but was disappointed to hear the DS923+ doesn't have on board transcoding capability for media streaming. Can't buy the DS920+ any more so I'm seemingly stuck. It's disappointing.
Good News as I understand it … 1. You can get a new drive tray for about $20 at Newegg. 2. It’s been stated by several other Synology RUclipsrs that the upcoming soon version of DSM 7.2 will allow NVMe drives to be used as storage pools. 3. You can just put your drives from old NAS “in order” directly into your new NAS and boot it up. If you were running DSM 6.2, you cold the upgrade to 7.1. 4. Synology DS plus NAS’s should be able to use non Synology drives. Synology RS NAS’s require Synology branded Toshiba drives.
Why are we spending $20 on new drive trays? That shouldn't even be a thing. That should have been buttoned up 10 years ago. That miserable set up has cost me data, with glitch start ups.
@@tonyvalenti6614 Guess you haven't had 8 of them break from opening them and moving since 2013. Really cheap action from Synology. I don't want to spend $300 on them. They are about $40 to order in the US. I got a hack from a Korean speaking website. But, still shouldn't have had to buy more than 1. Not acceptable.
@@Tugela60 I am getting tough with them. You know the Chinese plastics they put in them. Back in my day they would be steel parts (or the like) meant to last.
I don't see lots of other offerings with ECC ram at this price point. Last time I bought a readynas and got burned as netgear has now abandonned that segment completely so this time I went with Synology as I see them as having staying power.
echt heel duidelijk NL gast hier :), grapje terzijde, I am really thinking to buy this unit, upgrade from my 220+ shall I do it? basically for more TB to have. I will still use my 220+ mainly as my mail and video/picture storage.
Hello there, i am new to the world of NAS drive and I m eyeing for a 4 bay one, possibly this synology ds923+, now since you had some disappointments with it, do you think there are better and not much more costly alternatives? Thank you in advance and thanks for the nice video.
The DS 923+ is a great unit and I would actually recommend it to many people. My disappointment is the relative conservative software, but for most people this will be a good thing.
I've a 920+ while I love the ease of DSM I think it's time I look at Asustor. Synology removing USB support from DSM to hinder you from 2.5 GbE, the absurd cost of expansion bays and their newer line up still featuring 1 GbE Ethnet takes the biscuit. Time I upgraded to a competitor next and while I'm at it I think I'll try and get my company to switch too as I've heard their Enterprise stuff is also not that competitive anymore.
In video production world it was like that in the past where external recorder manufacturers wanted you to use only their drives so they locked them, then Atomos came along and let aby drive to be used and stole the market. SSD that cache works but yeah I'd like to use my drives.
Thank you for the video. I am an old school tech. I have been working with RAID for over 20 years. I tend to shy away from NAS units for the home because of how big a pain they were in the field (once they are set up they are not bad) I prefer a DAS as they are far faster than a NAS. But I have to ask.... why would anyone put an NVMe drive in a NAS? NVMe is super super fast and seems to be a total waste even on a 10Gb network Even SSDD would seem to be a waste as well. Anyway good video! Cheers
You are right, if the only thing you want for at nas is to work as network storage, nvme drives would be overkill imo. But Synology offers a lot of features in their software like hosting Docker containers, webserver, mail server and a bunch of other stuff that runs on the nas. These applications will perform way better if they run from a nvme drive than a normal hdd.
How to say this yes and no. Yes: 1. NAS is 7/24 security tools, which is if something failure or some uncompability or something else happens because WD drive synology try protecting their good name barnd. 2. If something goes wrong, all you can do just call one synology engineer, no need to call WD engineer to secure your data and synology engineer to repair NAS No: 1. They try making dirty money by selling expensive drives
The Reason synology NVME Drive are only supported for storage pools is because of the Type of NAND Flash used and full compatibility for longer life span and less people complaining about Dead SSD Drive as a safe guard the have to be enterprise grade that's why
But who gives a F? Evveryone adding their own drives will know the risk. Heck Synology's software could give warning about this, but still allow it to made. This is just total bs. I got curious that maybe for once I should try these ready boxes instead of running ie. Openmediavault, but no-way-in-hell I'm ever going to get junk like that. Just absurd.
I have never worked directly with QNAP - but from my understanding they have a better hardware support, and for some models you can install TrueNas instead of the built in software.
The workload on the Synology is 550TB instead of 300TB on the WD red pro and Seagate Ironwolf Pro. Also the MTBF is more than 2 times as high as the Seagate and WD. So when using the drives in data pools it needs to be very high performance thus the synology being the better option. That being said i thing for most people this will be overkill, the firewolf pro is the best value for your money.
Hmm, I have one question for you, my disappointed friend, why you need the SSD volume to create? The maximum speed from built in network is 1Gb per second - with expanded connector 10 Gb per second. The SATA read has 6Gb per second max and with RAID about 4Gb per second. Based on this if you have no expansion network card you don't need any SSD cache or SSD volume as you have a bottle neck of network card. In case you have found required expansion for 10Gb per second and put it, and you have some clients with 10Gb per second network card, transfer speed up could be done using SSD cache as the network has condition to start from lower speed based on data package size used and will do speed up during first several seconds - up to 60s. Till this time by sequential reading the SATA will fill SSD read cache and you will speed up your connection also with 10Gb slot. Summarizing this you are disappointed only because you don't know your requirements, don't read basic Syno's information and have some fiction about good SSD volume :)
Looking forward to your video about migrating to the new NAS. I'm a home/ enthusiast user and have recently migrated from a 10-year old DS212J (6TB SHR) which has "served" me well, to a DS220+ (8TB SHR). It wasn't difficult but took a long time using HyperBackup due to the change in file system (ext4 to btrfs). It took 4 days to backup ~2.7TB of data via direct gigabit LAN (although transfer rates were only about 10Mb/s I think due to the limited 128MB ram in the DS212j), and about 10hrs to restore the backup to the DS220+. Very happy with the result and the new unit!
Nope not yet. I tested it yesterday actually because a new update was installed from synology, but still no dice.. As far as I know they will not support the OS to be installed on the nvme's ever because of the lifetime of nvme's.
I hope you can help me! I have sooo many files on my pc and external SSDs lying around on my desk. About 6 TB with videos, pictures and documents. Now that I've started a RUclips channel, there is going to be alot of video files! All I want is a box with 4 bays (maybe go with two 12TB to start with), to store aaall of my files. I want to connect with a USB to my pc and have a decent speed when tranferring files from my computer and I want it all to be mirrored. The networking part is not so important to me. Is this Synology DS923+ for me? And what do I look for in a suitable harddrive? Thank so much and cheers from Norway!
@@DigitalJediDk Det endte med at jeg kjøpte meg to eksterne harddisker på 8TB til tilsammen 3700 kr som skal speiles. Så får jeg stå for bsckupen selv. Takk for svar!
You can use 2.5" SSD in the normal drive slots, right? Then the system is also performant. I had a DS220+ with 2x 2.5" SSD (normal consumer SSD WD Blue) running until I decided on a DS1522+, which I equipped with 5 HDDs and 2x 1TB NVME SSD (WD RED NAS SSD) as cache. The performance and especially the response time are great. I had decided against the DS923+ because it only has 2 RJ45 ports. And yes, I would never buy RAM, SSD's or HDD's from Synology. The prices are completely overpriced!
Granted, the 1 GbE ports strangle the output to ~120 MB/sec transfer per port anyway, I guess...; yet SATA SSDs of any decent capacity are much more expensive per TB once about 2 TB...; even the 8 TB Samsung QVO is still above $450... Most folks nowadays want 12-16 TB drives, the sweet spot on price/capacity ratio...
I thought you did a great job presenting the disappointment in the new model. I presume you didn’t do a deep dive into the new model as it would seem to be a no-brainer upgrade. While I too don’t understand the reasoning for exclusive drive brand support, they aren’t the only ones. Dell servers have this “feature” as well. I wish the OEM would articulate what sets their brand apart - greater performance? reliability? integrated diagnostics? (and does that equate to greater value). Just WHAT is it that is pissing us all off? If this persists, a new manufacturer may start catering to the growing slice of dissatisfied users.
This is one of the first NAS they made with a Ryzen CPU. I wanted to know about its performance, pros/cons, yet all thats talked about is NVMe as storage pools, and that knowledge isnt even new...
Maybe my question is not correct: can i setup Synology DiskStation Manager (DSM) to ds923+ ssd m.2? I mean like in standart pc we have fast system drive with operating system (in this case i think it is m.2 ssd) and we have slow HDD for multimedia and other data.
that is a disappointment that you can't use your own NVMe drives. I wouldn't buy the 923+ until I know they've fixed the software to allow that. I was originally thinking of putting 2x 2TB or 4TB NVMe drives and setup a faster storage pool and then use the regular drives for larger data sets and archiving. I'd definitely like to see a Synology migration video. I currently have a DS 214+ and was wondering what the migration would entail if I went to a newer unit and if its even worth attempting or should I just migrate shares over to the new NAS manually and then decom the old DS 214+ when I'm done.
This is why proper research should be conducted before purchasing a product. Especially for products that house data. I don't like the idea of using a product that isn't supported for important data. The idea of using a workaround, or bypassing a warning is not something I'd ever consider. It is a machine. It is going to have problems at so one point. I'm not going to increase the chances. I have no problem with what Synology has done. In fact they have recently released a value line of their HDDs that are supposed to be on par with red plus/iron wolf pro drives vs their enterprise line that is more business oriented. It's possible they will release budget minded M.2 drives as well. My secondary NAS needs to be replaced, and I'm looking at the DS923+ with their Synology plus series HDDs and M.2. It's the right choice for small business use, or serious home office use. I'd love to get a DS1823XS+ with Synology enterprise drives, but that's overkill and over priced for my use case. If you really want/need the functionality, pay the price to do it right. However, you shouldn't complain that they've made a decision to create an ecosystem that provides better reliability and integrity. Your demo of the faulty drive bay proves the point. Even vendor purpose built parts are not perfect. Why slap a 3rd party part in there and expect it to never be an issue? Don't get me wrong, I did that with my PS5. Had a spare M.2 that was not on the approved list. I'm using it with no issues, but it's just a gaming system. My data there isn't critical. It can be gone tomorrow, and I won't consider it a major loss. The data on my NAS is a different story. That data lives on more than one NAS in more than one location. That data matters, a lot. I'm going to follow the best practices in ensuring it is secure, intact, and available.
Shame that Synology has essentially dumped prosumer/smb. 1gbe from 1999,usb gen 1 from 2018, forcing you to purchase their stuff, and removing usb options are just a few items that cause pause. You can saturate 1gbe with one drive, like many have said here the competition is going to make pickup customers, don't think they care really. They are making a total fortune with this stuff. The 923- requires you dump another 150 dollars just to get decent nic speed, if you want to pool you have to buy their stuff, enough is enough already! I went with a 453E recently using Q-Tier and 2 nvme drives and I could be happier, upgraded the network to all 2.5 gbe for just a few hundred in switches and nics and noticed a nice difference, all the drives are WD, backing up to the front usb is Gen 2 so it is extremely fast, and qts has tons of options especially if you add qnap club.
I went for the DS1522+ which, after installing DSM 7.2 can also accept SSD for storage. But the same as your problem. However I do not use the SSD slots just jet. Completely offtopic for a moment. An British friend of mine said he could not hear a difference between Danish (like you) people speaking English and Dutch (like me). And hearing you speak, I cannot too. I first thought you where Dutch, so I looked it up in your profile. But that is a offtopci (for me) fun fact.
Can the DS923+ address more than 12 external USB drives? My DS918+ can't do that. My data grave is slowly filling up, and I would like to add a 5Bay to my existing 10Bay enclosure, but only 12 devices are displayed :-( I also know that this is a bit unusual. But before I get the DS 923+ I would like to know this. Do you have any idea who can confirm this? Support doesn't know anything, of course. Greetings
I'm not sure to be honest and also not sure who can verify, but I think you would need an expansion unit (DS923+ Supports the DX517) that would give you 9 drive bays however I'm not sure if that would affect the amount of drives you can connect via USB..
@@DigitalJediDkI already have the DX517. That was the first expansion. 9*14TB in total. Then one external USB after the other, all of which I later put in a 10Bay enclosure. The last expansion was the conversion to 2.5 Gbit Ethernet via USB adapter. That works quite well. I think the next step will be a self-built NAS, possibly with a 19 inch SAN rack.
Maybe I should do a "How long can you toss a synology device" video? :D Unraid is super cool but for my use I would most likely create a TrueNas box in the future because of the cost of Unraid
I still have my 1513+ for alomst 10 years, zero issues. I just upgraded all my the drives to 12TB, and dedicated a slot for 250GB SSD for cache. For file storage, it serves me well. I love the Synology for their apps, and SHR raid. QNAP is a great competitor.
Interesting and honest video, thanks. I was so close to getting Synology but opted for TrueNAS in the end, because it just seemed more hardware flexible. I've got a G4560 CPU on a SuperMicro board connected to my drives (30W), backblaze runs in the background. I also have an i3-9100 on another SuperMicro board (60W) that receives snapshots (replications) over a 10G link. Going a little over the top I have a re-purposed Xeon E5-1650 machine that also receives snapshots (replication) every week or so, as a third on-site backup. I believe dual or quad NVMe drive support is there, but TrueNAS Scale isn't quite up to speed (literally).
I've had a DS916+ for a while in home use. Very useful indeed! However, I can't understand having a close hardware approach. Looks like they wanna look like Apple. When your compatability list only supports synology products that are source from other vendors and then relabeled Synology. The mark up greed sets in. Too greedy for me, next NAS is not Synology.
The 2 synology's that I have will be replacement by some other brand because of this nonsense when the time comes. Poor specs and proprietary hardware will cost them a lot of customers.
I will also consider other options next time. I am actually hoping that they will make an official version of DSM that can be installed on all hardware 🧐
I like the DSM system but because of the proprietary hardware move my next system will be something else. No need to pay double to get a sticker put on someone else's drives and a software unlock.
On my fourth Synology (running 2, one as a main NAS and the other for onsite backup of that NAS) , yep they have lower performing CPUs than other manufacturers. You can get a cheap 10Gb interface very cheaply like £40 intel X520-DA2 are my normal go to if have a spare PCIe slot, Microtik 10Gb switches are very cheap if you need more than 2 devices connecting to each other. The reason to buy the Synology for me is the Apps, specially for backup of cloud services. Yep there have also been issues with specific CPUs and PSU issues. I've even sold my older Synology's after years of use for around 2/3rd the price I paid for them. In 10 years of ownership not had any issues. I don't use Synology RAM either, I jus keep the original in case I need it after upgrade.
I used to own a qnap ruclips.net/video/x3KPuzYC-7E/видео.html but it crashed along with a drive and I was refused access and I guess OS is installed on the storage drives itself. Why not use whatever drives you want in a pc cabinet witrh truenas?
What a darn shame, I was really hyped when out of a whim I decided to check their newest products and finally saw M.2 support. I'm very happy with my 6 year old DiskStation but having HDD's only shows its age when files get bigger over time, I specially notice it since I use my NAS as a working directory for my dev work, so I compile directly into it, pretty slow, I could do it local and have it sync instead, but rather want a plug & play environment since I'm the only user anyways with multiple clients. The fact that they use a first generation embedded ryzen processor also had me raise eyebrows, since it does not have an igpu, which results in worse performance for video playback over the network (PLEX), that tiny thing is going to get mutilated as it tries to serve those video sources while also doing whatever other tasks like running a VM. It is possible now to use M.2 drives as storage pool, at least their product sheet says so, you can't however use off brand ones like it is the case with HDD's and SSD's, 1GbE is horrible for such an expensive product as well, new one at that, forcing us to buy their 10GbE Network Upgrade Module. Honestly doesn't feel like an upgrade at all if I were to buy this, good thing I found your video, after seeing the spec sheet I was at first excited but then very skeptical after I saw how much was missing there to be considered a "premium product", was pretty upset when searching RUclips for DS923+ all I saw were Soyfaced positive clickbait reviews with barely any criticism, yours on the other hand put the finger right where it stung for whoever wouldn't want this.
Agreed! Unless you did and synology specifically said it can work. Otherwise, it's on you to verify what the capabilities are before you purchase. Perhaps, it's a feature they will add in the near future so all isn't lost.
Really helpful video, thanks for your time to produce it. I'm in the market for a NAS storage device and my default was to look at Synology however I feel, and share, your disappointment so this particular customer WILL be looking at other manufactures. Thanks again.
Thank you ! I was about to buy one but their actions changed my mind.
I really appreciate this video!
I've been looking into getting my very first NAS, and everything has been pointing me to Synology, as it comes across as simpler for a novice to use.
However, I was discouraged by the Apple-esque philosophy of proprietary adaptors, reduced spec, and higher cost compared to the competition.
Now hearing that they're even going to prevent 3rd party drives, has just put me right off them entirely.
Thank-you for the warning!
Thank you so much for your comment and im happy it was helpful to you
I have this NAS and never had any issue with it. Synology is a great product.
I think I bought my last Synology NAS last summer. The sheer wisdom of Synology to not accept other manufacturer's drives and to not support 2,5 or 5 Gbps is unacceptable. It's a solid OS , I'm using it since my first ds-101. I'm feeling a bit sad to know that I have to switch. I just have to.
Thanks for your video. It confirmed my sentiment about Synology.
Nice going, I'm more of a Qnap guy only because I like freedom ... but I do look at other brands from time to time.
Didn't hear about this issue anywhere else while researching. thanks for informing!
This is the first time I've seen your video, and I understand your frustration. I was about to buy one now now after seeing this clip, I'm going to reconsider.
great video. I love your honesty and clear message. Congratulations !!!
Thank you so much for your comment!
I've had my 918+ since 2017. It's faultless. The great thing about the 923+ is if you pop a 10G card in it, direct connect that to your PC/Mac and connect the other ethernet port to your network you have a crazy fast storage pool at the end of a bit of Cat6a cable. The free software that comes with the device pays for it'self. It might not be cutting edge, but it's sold, stable and safe. If I'm choosing to put my data on it, that's what I want. It's also easy to use and lots of online video's to guide you if needed. Don't get me wrong, some of the modals could beniffit from some speed / function increases but overall its a great product.
I’ve got the 918+ too, bloody love it! But am considering an upgrade!
Beside the "downgrade" to use only Synology certified own brand DRIVES and RAM there is another flaw compared to the DS920+. The AMD Ryzen processor inside the DS923+ doesn't have an integrated GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) compared to the DS920+. Which means, if you want to use the DS923+ as a media server (Plex Server) the decoding of any media files has to be done entirely by the CPU. For 4k content this can be quite problematic depending on which codec was used for encoding. For business purposes and to use as file server this shouldn't be a big concern. But for Media services this flaw is an absolute NO NO...
Yes you are completely right! I think this is where Synology loses the enthusiast segment of their customers, because as you wrote - businesses might not care that much.
@@DigitalJediDk Do you think Synology have completely given up on integrated graphics? Or might we see them again?
I was holding out for this new generation of Synology devices so I could get my first ever nas for Plex streaming but the lack of integrated graphics means I'm stuck between investing in years old Synology hardware, go to a competitor or wait another 2 years and hopefully Synology gets their act together by next gen.
Yup. I had to buy new old stock DS1520+ with Intel to get integrated graphics. Synology are gonna lose a LOT of customers by A) not having integrated graphics anymore B) insisting on proprietary 3rd rate Synology branded HDDs that cost twice the price of the #1 and #2 rated HDDs. Words cannot express how disappointed I am with them.
@@AndySomething It really doesn't matter at this point. People either bought old gen Synology or went with a competitor. They are so, so, so far behind in features that are taken for granted in the industry (worm, tier, etc.). Now you have to pay a small fortune to get 10 gbe, storage pools, and 8 gigs ram. It is a total joke really. I went with a QNAP 453E and extremely happy added 1 TB of WB Red NVME in QTier and it is perfect, upgraded the entire network to 2.5gbe on the cheap, it cuts through 4k transcoding like a knife in butter. For SMB/Prosumer it is a great value and works great. Synology offers nothing really at this point...
Well I prefer Intel for sure but I don't consider this a deal breaker for me at all. I have absolutely no need for plex since I have the ability to stream everything I could ever want. I haven't purchased a DVD or Blu-ray in hell 10yrs. Plex imho is for old people that can't let go of old technology.
I've been using a DS1821+ for years now and love it.
You can order replacement plastic caddy clips as they tend to fail over time.
DS923+ is a huge STEP backwards IMO and the DS920+ is only saved by the Intel QS capable CPU. While DSM is the best off the shelf NAS OS, QNAP offers more powerful units for those not wanting to run a DataCenter in their house.
Wonder how many actual drive insertions/removals were actually done on a 2 bay unit? 3 to 5, per slot, perhaps? Impressive! :)
I have DS214 Play since 2014 and working well. I am using NAS for CCTV, Plex, storage & black up. Previously as web server too. Never had any issues. Today I feel that my Play sometimes is consuming 100% CPU. So time for upgrade and was aiming for 923+ but after your video and comments related to GPU decoding I step back. Maybe will buy 423+ at least have Intel.
Synology not implementing 2.5E and the lackluster nvme support is a major downgrade and why I'm holding off on getting another 8-bay unit Synology unit. I suspect we may have to wait until 2024 to see 2.5E support thought I'm hoping it will maybe surprise us this year.
We shall see!
Could not agree more!
I assume you mean 2.5G.
If you are using a 2 drive bay you are probably running a 1G connection anyway, so what is the point? In any case, if you need 10G you can add a card for that.
@@Tugela602.5G is around the speed of a typical hard drive. If you have your NAS connected to 1G, you're limiting it to less than half of the available speed.
@lukastemberger The typical hard drive will do about 100MB/s, which is pretty close to 1G (110MB/s). A 2.5G link is going to be limited by drive speed unless you are using two drives to write to simultaneously.
@@Tugela60 I don't know what drives you're using, but I haven't seen an HDD that does less than 200-250MBps in a decade.
If you put them in most RAID configs it's more than that.
From what I've heard in regards to the m.2 storage pools is that Synology were going to release this feature with DSM 7.2, but decided to include an early beta with the release of the DS923+ hence why only Synology drives can create storage pools. It did this because it felt that maybe not many people will upgrade to the DS923+ due to lack of new features
They didnt 😅
Agree with your comments. I've got an old Synology NAS (214), and need to upgrade. I love their software (DSM), and wanted to stick with Synology. I've had my eye on the DS920+ (transcoding support), but they're now discontinued and am having difficulty finding them in stock in my area. That leaves the 923+ (or 1522+). But, with all of the handicaps that Synology keeps purposely building into their hardware I'm thinking I need to look elsewhere (Asustor, QNAP), or build my own TrueNas device. Hopefully people start talking with their wallets and not buy their product, and maybe they'll change their strategy. I doubt it'll happen, but one can wish.
Thank you so much for your comment!
I agree the DSM software really provides some nice features and DSM is actually almost the only reason that I decided to buy a new Synology unit.
I got my 920 off of Ebay. It got thrown around in shipping so much the battery was rolling around loose so I had to disassemble it to put the battery back in. That being said the seller was excellent and offered to send a new one. It wasn't her fault the shippers were so careless so I decided to just keep it. It's been rock solid so far. Just stick with 99+ feedback sellers.
I went with a QNAP 453E and couldn't be happier. QTS has so many features esp. with qnap club, the hardware is really good. The nvme options are really good, went with Qtier with 2 WD red nvme's and 4 WD red drives for main raid. For what I paid for it, it really is the best all around NAS, the 464 is also a good choice. Good luck! Synology make so much margin, they don't need the numbers anymore. The 923 really requires you to buy the 10gbe, if you add nvme your buying their stuff, so they are making 500 extra on every 923 they make, 1gbe is really inexcusable to me in 2023, not to mention the old gen1 usb.
@@km3481 - I am also looking at QNAP. While my Synology is working perfectly, the company is no longer supporting it with DSM7, kind of planned obsolescence. But now they also removed the main feature I rely on, USB DAC/Speaker Out. With that I was able to use the Audio Station and DS Audio to control my hifi, get all the streaming, etc etc. Life was good.
@@tweedeldee8122 It has a battery in it? wtf
I was about to drop $3k to upgrade to a DS3622sx+ from my DS1817+ & DX517 until I learned about how Synology has become customer-hostile given their changes to DSM related to non-Synology drives. So after a ton of research, I spent my $3k on hardware for TrueNAS instead. #fwiw
I also bought the 923+ and didn't stick to the compatibility list. Both the four hard drives from WD and the 16GB storage expansion from Kingston are not on this list. And the result: The system works. BUT: Warnings, warnings and more warnings in the info center. I'll probably leave out the NVME's for now. Thank you for the warning.
whats the realiable harddisk to use in NAS, Thanks for sharing these awesome vids, youre doing s excellent job, presenting in a professional way, good studio and video setup! and u have a good sense of humor in your vids.
Thank you for the nice words 😍
Im using enterprise disks from western digital 😃
It seems like this would be a violation of Anti-trust laws in the United States. I'm not sure about Europe but I recall companies getting sued by the FTC for these types of trade practices. E.G. when Microsoft Forced users to install Internet Explorer by default.
i am currently using the DS918+ and have installed two M.2 drives as storage pools. However, these can only be installed using manual SSH commands and everytime the Synology firmware is updated i have to run a batch file to make the M.2 drives available again. Although this works, it's still pretty annoying that there is no official support for standard M.2 drives as storage pools.
No need to run SSH you can just run it in task manager that's how i run Adgard Home.
@@PropMoneyStacks how ddo you do it? do you have link or video?
Synology has always installed the DSM onto one of the hard drives, so it doesn't make sense to build a system with only NVMe drives.
You can use non-Synology NVMes for R/W-Caching if you use both slots.
Hmm I have only been able to configure them as read cache because the read / write cache required Synology nvme's.
@@DigitalJediDk my 1821+ has read/write, they have to be over a certain size and configured as raid1
Thanks for your review!
I believe I understood that you can use compatible nvme ssd drive in Synology DS923+, but only for caching and not for storage pools. Is that correct?
Thank you for your comment!
Yes that is true, however you CAN use NVME drives as storage pools as long as you buy the nvme drives that Synology manufacture.
I would very like if you make a detail video on Synology NAS migration.
Is this what you are looking for? 😃 ruclips.net/video/N9KFaVmJJdY/видео.html
I bought a DS723+ which has the same limitation, for me it's less of an issue (but I agree annoying). NVME drives are still very expensive per TB, what I found was setting up a read/write cache is quite good, if you are sending a terabyte of data to the NAS, it gets write cached there, including all your filesystem metadata, so your 3.5" drives feel very responsive, it's a huge quality of life improvement. Similarly if you have 1 TB NVME cache and say 24TB of storage and you're editing videos for example, they will be moved to the NVME read cache, boosting your performance, almost giving you the experience of a 24TB NVME. It seems a better use of the NVMEs than an extra 1TB of storage? - to me anyway.
I have the same problem with my Synology NAS.
On the other hand, good experience with Synology durability.
Yes, durability is good.... I have only had one Nas die on me a long time ago...
So glad you posted this video (and the comments you've shared below)!
I'm in the market for a new NAS and I was looking at Synology as a power efficient upgrade to my 8 year old Lenovo ThinkServer running TrueNAS. I was weary about buying a Synology system because of the lack of 10GbE/25GbE, but the form factor and simplicity was enticing. After seeing these quality issues, I'm going to pass on Synology.
I also looked at Asustor and QNAP, but their software has had numerous security issues over the past few years. I guess I'll be doing more research on a DIY build.
Thank you so much for your comment!
Synology has unfortunately also had and still have some issues in terms of security however they seem to do something to mitigate the risks.
I got the 923+ just recently and didn't experience the problems this guy mentions. Some videos are likely sponsored by competitors and never disclosed. I personally love my 923+ and would definitely buy another Synology NAS.
Super interesting! Did you manage to get a storage pool of nvme drives working through the DSM software?
Sometimes companies hire people to try to tone down critique as well 😏
#notSponsored
So which one we should buy??????
Whilst I understand your frustration I came to hear about the DS923+ generally, I want to move up from DS420j and have BTRFS, fast snapshots, upgradable memory, expansion cab opportunity etc. and maybe put some SSDs in for cache only. I'm assuming other than the SSD not useable as a storage pool direct that everything is good?
Yes, you are correct. The DS923+ is a solid unit and having BTRFS is def. worth it 👍
@@DigitalJediDk I'm definitely not sorry I bought it, the confidence to throw away and restructure things knowing you have snapshots and can review over and over before reclaiming the space had been great. Got rid of about 1.7TB of old VMs and duplicates and it's been really great. Also got the synology-csi driver working with my home lab k8s cluster on iSCSI including snapshots with restores fully tested. I had been wishing I had bought bigger drives in the Amazon sale recently until managing to get down to 50% utilisation after all the change. Great unit I think and there's still 5 more slots I could add to it if I want. My usage is iSCSI and streaming media off it so still holding off on doing the week long analysis to see if SSD cache is worth it.
Ya got that bro ... Except for the storage pool for nvme there is no issue at all ... Recently got mine and really had a hassle-free setup
Sound amazing! Did you use Synology nvme's or some other brand?
I just tried to use a non-syno brand nvme for a storage pool but no dice. I'm very interested in knowing how you did :)
I share your concerns. I like my Synology 918+ in many ways and hoped to upgrade it with a 923+ this spring. I came across many of the same problems you did with the 923+. I decided to postpone my update cycle another year to see what happens.
Yes, please make a video about migrating from one NAS to another. I have an older 2 bay Synology NAS and I will be buying the DS720+ and hopefully just migrating from one NAS to the other
Already on it 😉
@@DigitalJediDk Great, Thanks
My understanding was that you just moved the drives over.
Now that Ubiquiti UNAS Drive has released would u recommend a video editor like myself with storage needs of 10 TB per year to go for something like Synology DS1522+ or this new UNAS to be my FIRST NAS storage unit?
Have you heared back from Synology on your email?
Very informative video, thank you.
Thank you very much for your comment... No sadly I haven't heard anything back, besides auto replies. 😒
They have really knee capped their crummy hardware. I recently replaced a failing 918 with a 920 even tho I knew the 923 was about to launch. If it wasn't for DSM and the apps I would've bailed on Synology. I understand there's a balance between security and flexibility but synology seems to want to turn a Linux based system in an Apple proprietary device with no flexibility for end users. Especially when it comes to supported external hardware like the old days. Good luck finding a hard drive with the exact model # and firmware they approved. 2 USB ports really? And then they won't even support a hard drive caddy with a couple of drives. A UPS takes one USB so you actually only have a single one. One back up drive and your done. Seems they are focused on larger business customers these days.
Thank you so much for your comment and I could not agree more!
The system works just fine with drives not on their list. All the compatibility list means is that they have not validated the drives not on it.
@@Tugela60 If you ever need tech support the first they mention it that the drives aren't on their list, implying that the problem might be because they are not.
@@tweedeldee8122 That only means they can't be sure of providing a solution to the problem because they may not be able to replicate it due to the equipment being different. It is a liability disclaimer, they don't refuse to provide support.
You made a 10 minute video because the NEW for 923+ Feature of using M.2 NVME drives as another drive “pool” only works with the Synology 400gb or 800gb drives.
I think it sucks the capacity is so low on those when an M.2 used for cache can be 4TB.
I think you protest too much, all things considered, i was thinking of making one M.2 drive a large SSD cache, and the other to serve as an SSD shared drive pool which is an awesome feature. I wonder whah the 24+ models will offer?
I'm looking to get a NAS from this line, but was disappointed to hear the DS923+ doesn't have on board transcoding capability for media streaming. Can't buy the DS920+ any more so I'm seemingly stuck. It's disappointing.
I just read it online in a December 6th post that Synology quietly added support for M.2 SSD volumes.
Thank you for your comment, can you send a link to that post? I am still not able to make them storage pools...
I really like your video. I want to buy sunology just to run virtual machines, I'm beginer and I don't know what is the best action!, thanks.
Good News as I understand it …
1. You can get a new drive tray for about $20 at Newegg.
2. It’s been stated by several other Synology RUclipsrs that the upcoming soon version of DSM 7.2 will allow NVMe drives to be used as storage pools.
3. You can just put your drives from old NAS “in order” directly into your new NAS and boot it up. If you were running DSM 6.2, you cold the upgrade to 7.1.
4. Synology DS plus NAS’s should be able to use non Synology drives. Synology RS NAS’s require Synology branded Toshiba drives.
Why are we spending $20 on new drive trays? That shouldn't even be a thing. That should have been buttoned up 10 years ago. That miserable set up has cost me data, with glitch start ups.
@@JohnnyMacalvee-cf7et I’ve not had the glitches you speak of in over two years. Trays do break rarely, but a $20 fix is less than a Big Mac Meal.
@@tonyvalenti6614 Guess you haven't had 8 of them break from opening them and moving since 2013. Really cheap action from Synology. I don't want to spend $300 on them. They are about $40 to order in the US. I got a hack from a Korean speaking website. But, still shouldn't have had to buy more than 1. Not acceptable.
@@JohnnyMacalvee-cf7et Maybe don't rip them up then?
Why are yours breaking? Are you really replacing the drives every other day?
@@Tugela60 I am getting tough with them. You know the Chinese plastics they put in them. Back in my day they would be steel parts (or the like)
meant to last.
Also only 108TB is supported per volume on my 8bay RS1219+ and RS1221+
What if you lock it with the key?
Stil the same, it needs replacement
I don't see lots of other offerings with ECC ram at this price point. Last time I bought a readynas and got burned as netgear has now abandonned that segment completely so this time I went with Synology as I see them as having staying power.
echt heel duidelijk NL gast hier :), grapje terzijde, I am really thinking to buy this unit, upgrade from my 220+ shall I do it? basically for more TB to have. I will still use my 220+ mainly as my mail and video/picture storage.
Hi, is there any update from synology that the other nvme brand is compatible or still not yet
Nope, I dont think they will ever make it happen
Hello there, i am new to the world of NAS drive and I m eyeing for a 4 bay one, possibly this synology ds923+, now since you had some disappointments with it, do you think there are better and not much more costly alternatives? Thank you in advance and thanks for the nice video.
The DS 923+ is a great unit and I would actually recommend it to many people. My disappointment is the relative conservative software, but for most people this will be a good thing.
I've a 920+ while I love the ease of DSM I think it's time I look at Asustor. Synology removing USB support from DSM to hinder you from 2.5 GbE, the absurd cost of expansion bays and their newer line up still featuring 1 GbE Ethnet takes the biscuit. Time I upgraded to a competitor next and while I'm at it I think I'll try and get my company to switch too as I've heard their Enterprise stuff is also not that competitive anymore.
I am using Plugable 2.5G USB C and USB to Ethernet Adapter, 2-in-1 Adapter with my 918+ without any drama at the moment. Just FIY.
Thx some comments here already saved me from buying Synology outright...
i bought Crucial m.2 NVME will it work? Also Crucial DDR4 RAM
Nope :(
In video production world it was like that in the past where external recorder manufacturers wanted you to use only their drives so they locked them, then Atomos came along and let aby drive to be used and stole the market. SSD that cache works but yeah I'd like to use my drives.
Wasnt this fixed already and now it allow to use popular m.2?
Sadly not in the latest update 4 - I'm waiting to see if it is fixed in the 7.2 update
just for understanding you wanted to use ram as storage?
Nope, ram is not the same as Nvme...
oh i see, but if you would put in only synology nvme in you could install the dsm without disks?
Thank you for the video. I am an old school tech. I have been working with RAID for over 20 years.
I tend to shy away from NAS units for the home because of how big a pain they were in the field (once they are set up they are not bad)
I prefer a DAS as they are far faster than a NAS.
But I have to ask.... why would anyone put an NVMe drive in a NAS?
NVMe is super super fast and seems to be a total waste even on a 10Gb network
Even SSDD would seem to be a waste as well.
Anyway good video! Cheers
You are right, if the only thing you want for at nas is to work as network storage, nvme drives would be overkill imo. But Synology offers a lot of features in their software like hosting Docker containers, webserver, mail server and a bunch of other stuff that runs on the nas. These applications will perform way better if they run from a nvme drive than a normal hdd.
@@DigitalJediDk all this plus my network is 10 gig native (copper and fiber)
And I work with huge files
The main use of NVMe is for hosting VMs on Synology, but for storage data is overkill.
How to say this yes and no.
Yes:
1. NAS is 7/24 security tools, which is if something failure or some uncompability or something else happens because WD drive synology try protecting their good name barnd.
2. If something goes wrong, all you can do just call one synology engineer, no need to call WD engineer to secure your data and synology engineer to repair NAS
No:
1. They try making dirty money by selling expensive drives
It's all about money. Everyone is using the split system to make more money at the end.
The Reason synology NVME Drive are only supported for storage pools is because of the Type of NAND Flash used and full compatibility for longer life span and less people complaining about Dead SSD Drive as a safe guard the have to be enterprise grade that's why
But who gives a F? Evveryone adding their own drives will know the risk. Heck Synology's software could give warning about this, but still allow it to made. This is just total bs. I got curious that maybe for once I should try these ready boxes instead of running ie. Openmediavault, but no-way-in-hell I'm ever going to get junk like that. Just absurd.
hi, 7.2 is out. have you tested if other than synology's own nvme's are now supported for storage pool creation?
Yes! Just tested it yesterday but sadly, still the same "issue"...
@@DigitalJediDk Well, that's a showstopper :(
Sir, is QNAP better?
I have never worked directly with QNAP - but from my understanding they have a better hardware support, and for some models you can install TrueNas instead of the built in software.
@@DigitalJediDk thank you!
The workload on the Synology is 550TB instead of 300TB on the WD red pro and Seagate Ironwolf Pro. Also the MTBF is more than 2 times as high as the Seagate and WD. So when using the drives in data pools it needs to be very high performance thus the synology being the better option.
That being said i thing for most people this will be overkill, the firewolf pro is the best value for your money.
Hmm, I have one question for you, my disappointed friend, why you need the SSD volume to create?
The maximum speed from built in network is 1Gb per second - with expanded connector 10 Gb per second. The SATA read has 6Gb per second max and with RAID about 4Gb per second. Based on this if you have no expansion network card you don't need any SSD cache or SSD volume as you have a bottle neck of network card. In case you have found required expansion for 10Gb per second and put it, and you have some clients with 10Gb per second network card, transfer speed up could be done using SSD cache as the network has condition to start from lower speed based on data package size used and will do speed up during first several seconds - up to 60s. Till this time by sequential reading the SATA will fill SSD read cache and you will speed up your connection also with 10Gb slot.
Summarizing this you are disappointed only because you don't know your requirements, don't read basic Syno's information and have some fiction about good SSD volume :)
Looking forward to your video about migrating to the new NAS. I'm a home/ enthusiast user and have recently migrated from a 10-year old DS212J (6TB SHR) which has "served" me well, to a DS220+ (8TB SHR). It wasn't difficult but took a long time using HyperBackup due to the change in file system (ext4 to btrfs). It took 4 days to backup ~2.7TB of data via direct gigabit LAN (although transfer rates were only about 10Mb/s I think due to the limited 128MB ram in the DS212j), and about 10hrs to restore the backup to the DS220+. Very happy with the result and the new unit!
Thank you very much for your comment 😃 The video is live now 🎉👍
Is there a change so far on this issue accepting only Synology‘s own NVMe‘s? Can I now use ones I already have to install the OS on it?
Nope not yet. I tested it yesterday actually because a new update was installed from synology, but still no dice.. As far as I know they will not support the OS to be installed on the nvme's ever because of the lifetime of nvme's.
I hope you can help me!
I have sooo many files on my pc and external SSDs lying around on my desk. About 6 TB with videos, pictures and documents. Now that I've started a RUclips channel, there is going to be alot of video files!
All I want is a box with 4 bays (maybe go with two 12TB to start with), to store aaall of my files. I want to connect with a USB to my pc and have a decent speed when tranferring files from my computer and I want it all to be mirrored. The networking part is not so important to me. Is this Synology DS923+ for me? And what do I look for in a suitable harddrive? Thank so much and cheers from Norway!
Hei Irene, jeg sender deg svar senere 👍
@@DigitalJediDk Det endte med at jeg kjøpte meg to eksterne harddisker på 8TB til tilsammen 3700 kr som skal speiles. Så får jeg stå for bsckupen selv. Takk for svar!
You can use 2.5" SSD in the normal drive slots, right? Then the system is also performant.
I had a DS220+ with 2x 2.5" SSD (normal consumer SSD WD Blue) running until I decided on a DS1522+, which I equipped with 5 HDDs and 2x 1TB NVME SSD (WD RED NAS SSD) as cache.
The performance and especially the response time are great. I had decided against the DS923+ because it only has 2 RJ45 ports.
And yes, I would never buy RAM, SSD's or HDD's from Synology. The prices are completely overpriced!
Granted, the 1 GbE ports strangle the output to ~120 MB/sec transfer per port anyway, I guess...; yet SATA SSDs of any decent capacity are much more expensive per TB once about 2 TB...; even the 8 TB Samsung QVO is still above $450... Most folks nowadays want 12-16 TB drives, the sweet spot on price/capacity ratio...
I thought you did a great job presenting the disappointment in the new model. I presume you didn’t do a deep dive into the new model as it would seem to be a no-brainer upgrade. While I too don’t understand the reasoning for exclusive drive brand support, they aren’t the only ones. Dell servers have this “feature” as well. I wish the OEM would articulate what sets their brand apart - greater performance? reliability? integrated diagnostics? (and does that equate to greater value). Just WHAT is it that is pissing us all off?
If this persists, a new manufacturer may start catering to the growing slice of dissatisfied users.
Perfect video showing Synology is selling cheaply made hardware with old hardware inside, while charging a premium for their product because of DSM.
Yep, I had the same issue.
This is one of the first NAS they made with a Ryzen CPU. I wanted to know about its performance, pros/cons, yet all thats talked about is NVMe as storage pools, and that knowledge isnt even new...
Maybe my question is not correct: can i setup Synology DiskStation Manager (DSM) to ds923+ ssd m.2? I mean like in standart pc we have fast system drive with operating system (in this case i think it is m.2 ssd) and we have slow HDD for multimedia and other data.
No, the Synology DSM cannot run from any of the two m.2 drive slots
@@DigitalJediDk so what the reason for using m.2 ssd in this nas if we can't use them for speed, just cash for hdd?
@@максимпрокопов-н6м Yes for cache, which will help a lot.
that is a disappointment that you can't use your own NVMe drives. I wouldn't buy the 923+ until I know they've fixed the software to allow that. I was originally thinking of putting 2x 2TB or 4TB NVMe drives and setup a faster storage pool and then use the regular drives for larger data sets and archiving. I'd definitely like to see a Synology migration video. I currently have a DS 214+ and was wondering what the migration would entail if I went to a newer unit and if its even worth attempting or should I just migrate shares over to the new NAS manually and then decom the old DS 214+ when I'm done.
I’ve heard you can use 3rd party M.2 drives, but only for ssd cache. You cannot use a 3rd party drive for long term storage.
This is why proper research should be conducted before purchasing a product. Especially for products that house data. I don't like the idea of using a product that isn't supported for important data. The idea of using a workaround, or bypassing a warning is not something I'd ever consider. It is a machine. It is going to have problems at so one point. I'm not going to increase the chances.
I have no problem with what Synology has done. In fact they have recently released a value line of their HDDs that are supposed to be on par with red plus/iron wolf pro drives vs their enterprise line that is more business oriented. It's possible they will release budget minded M.2 drives as well. My secondary NAS needs to be replaced, and I'm looking at the DS923+ with their Synology plus series HDDs and M.2. It's the right choice for small business use, or serious home office use. I'd love to get a DS1823XS+ with Synology enterprise drives, but that's overkill and over priced for my use case.
If you really want/need the functionality, pay the price to do it right. However, you shouldn't complain that they've made a decision to create an ecosystem that provides better reliability and integrity. Your demo of the faulty drive bay proves the point. Even vendor purpose built parts are not perfect. Why slap a 3rd party part in there and expect it to never be an issue?
Don't get me wrong, I did that with my PS5. Had a spare M.2 that was not on the approved list. I'm using it with no issues, but it's just a gaming system. My data there isn't critical. It can be gone tomorrow, and I won't consider it a major loss. The data on my NAS is a different story. That data lives on more than one NAS in more than one location. That data matters, a lot. I'm going to follow the best practices in ensuring it is secure, intact, and available.
Shame that Synology has essentially dumped prosumer/smb. 1gbe from 1999,usb gen 1 from 2018, forcing you to purchase their stuff, and removing usb options are just a few items that cause pause. You can saturate 1gbe with one drive, like many have said here the competition is going to make pickup customers, don't think they care really. They are making a total fortune with this stuff. The 923- requires you dump another 150 dollars just to get decent nic speed, if you want to pool you have to buy their stuff, enough is enough already! I went with a 453E recently using Q-Tier and 2 nvme drives and I could be happier, upgraded the network to all 2.5 gbe for just a few hundred in switches and nics and noticed a nice difference, all the drives are WD, backing up to the front usb is Gen 2 so it is extremely fast, and qts has tons of options especially if you add qnap club.
My NAS is an old Fujitsu computer with Windows Pro on it. With an used Mellanox Connectx-3 for 10 Gbit. 180 bucks and you are good to go. Well ...
This is a very nice way of reusing old computers instead of throwing them away... 👍👍
I went for the DS1522+ which, after installing DSM 7.2 can also accept SSD for storage. But the same as your problem. However I do not use the SSD slots just jet. Completely offtopic for a moment. An British friend of mine said he could not hear a difference between Danish (like you) people speaking English and Dutch (like me). And hearing you speak, I cannot too. I first thought you where Dutch, so I looked it up in your profile. But that is a offtopci (for me) fun fact.
Interesting language fact 😃
you can whitelist those drives yourself...it's a hack but it works
Do you have a link to a guide on how to do this. However I still think a hack should be unnecessary
Can the DS923+ address more than 12 external USB drives?
My DS918+ can't do that.
My data grave is slowly filling up, and I would like to add a 5Bay to my existing 10Bay enclosure, but only 12 devices are displayed :-(
I also know that this is a bit unusual. But before I get the DS 923+ I would like to know this. Do you have any idea who can confirm this? Support doesn't know anything, of course.
Greetings
I'm not sure to be honest and also not sure who can verify, but I think you would need an expansion unit (DS923+ Supports the DX517) that would give you 9 drive bays however I'm not sure if that would affect the amount of drives you can connect via USB..
@@DigitalJediDkI already have the DX517. That was the first expansion. 9*14TB in total.
Then one external USB after the other, all of which I later put in a 10Bay enclosure.
The last expansion was the conversion to 2.5 Gbit Ethernet via USB adapter. That works quite well.
I think the next step will be a self-built NAS, possibly with a 19 inch SAN rack.
@@enzolorenzo2589 What USB Ethernet adapter do you use with your Synology?
I think any company which takes out newer models every 3 years doesn’t really make a solid lasting product.
Having to pay extra for a 10Gb card it's no cool. To me, synology just wants to get more money out of the customer pockets by any means necessary.
Just toss it and build your own rig running something e.g. Unraid, much more flexibility and quality is whatever you buy.
Maybe I should do a "How long can you toss a synology device" video? :D
Unraid is super cool but for my use I would most likely create a TrueNas box in the future because of the cost of Unraid
I still have my 1513+ for alomst 10 years, zero issues. I just upgraded all my the drives to 12TB, and dedicated a slot for 250GB SSD for cache. For file storage, it serves me well. I love the Synology for their apps, and SHR raid. QNAP is a great competitor.
Interesting and honest video, thanks. I was so close to getting Synology but opted for TrueNAS in the end, because it just seemed more hardware flexible. I've got a G4560 CPU on a SuperMicro board connected to my drives (30W), backblaze runs in the background. I also have an i3-9100 on another SuperMicro board (60W) that receives snapshots (replications) over a 10G link. Going a little over the top I have a re-purposed Xeon E5-1650 machine that also receives snapshots (replication) every week or so, as a third on-site backup. I believe dual or quad NVMe drive support is there, but TrueNAS Scale isn't quite up to speed (literally).
I've had a DS916+ for a while in home use. Very useful indeed! However, I can't understand having a close hardware approach. Looks like they wanna look like Apple. When your compatability list only supports synology products that are source from other vendors and then relabeled Synology. The mark up greed sets in. Too greedy for me, next NAS is not Synology.
I agree!
I swear migrating the NAS is extremely simple. Just stick the old drives into the new NAS and it'll read them.
This is mostly true... If you are migrating from a very old nas it may not be this simple
The 2 synology's that I have will be replacement by some other brand because of this nonsense when the time comes. Poor specs and proprietary hardware will cost them a lot of customers.
I will also consider other options next time. I am actually hoping that they will make an official version of DSM that can be installed on all hardware 🧐
@@DigitalJediDk Yes, I'm willing to pay for DSM that can be installed on other hardware...due their vast collection of apps in their ecosystem
I like the DSM system but because of the proprietary hardware move my next system will be something else. No need to pay double to get a sticker put on someone else's drives and a software unlock.
Yes! Same here... The DSM is actually great but I would like to install DSM without the hardware :)
You can use other brands for HDDs or SSDs, they are just not certified...but no problem.
Hi, any reply from synology yet ?
Nope... Nothing...
You are honest 😂
On my fourth Synology (running 2, one as a main NAS and the other for onsite backup of that NAS) , yep they have lower performing CPUs than other manufacturers. You can get a cheap 10Gb interface very cheaply like £40 intel X520-DA2 are my normal go to if have a spare PCIe slot, Microtik 10Gb switches are very cheap if you need more than 2 devices connecting to each other. The reason to buy the Synology for me is the Apps, specially for backup of cloud services. Yep there have also been issues with specific CPUs and PSU issues. I've even sold my older Synology's after years of use for around 2/3rd the price I paid for them. In 10 years of ownership not had any issues. I don't use Synology RAM either, I jus keep the original in case I need it after upgrade.
Asustor FTW...! :)
Are you Dutch?
Nope, Danish ;)
I used to own a qnap ruclips.net/video/x3KPuzYC-7E/видео.html but it crashed along with a drive and I was refused access and I guess OS is installed on the storage drives itself. Why not use whatever drives you want in a pc cabinet witrh truenas?
I might do that in the future, but currently I need some of the functionality in the DSM software
What a darn shame, I was really hyped when out of a whim I decided to check their newest products and finally saw M.2 support.
I'm very happy with my 6 year old DiskStation but having HDD's only shows its age when files get bigger over time, I specially notice it since I use my NAS as a working directory for my dev work, so I compile directly into it, pretty slow, I could do it local and have it sync instead, but rather want a plug & play environment since I'm the only user anyways with multiple clients.
The fact that they use a first generation embedded ryzen processor also had me raise eyebrows, since it does not have an igpu, which results in worse performance for video playback over the network (PLEX), that tiny thing is going to get mutilated as it tries to serve those video sources while also doing whatever other tasks like running a VM.
It is possible now to use M.2 drives as storage pool, at least their product sheet says so, you can't however use off brand ones like it is the case with HDD's and SSD's, 1GbE is horrible for such an expensive product as well, new one at that, forcing us to buy their 10GbE Network Upgrade Module.
Honestly doesn't feel like an upgrade at all if I were to buy this, good thing I found your video, after seeing the spec sheet I was at first excited but then very skeptical after I saw how much was missing there to be considered a "premium product", was pretty upset when searching RUclips for DS923+ all I saw were Soyfaced positive clickbait reviews with barely any criticism, yours on the other hand put the finger right where it stung for whoever wouldn't want this.
Make your own cloud then. Of course Synology wants to get more from users. Aiyoooo.
Fuck and I just bought the 923+ ， what should I do!?
It really depends on your usecase. I am still using mine but accepted that nvme is only ssd cache for now. 🙂
@@DigitalJediDk I will also use it for media server, don’t tell me it won’t able to play 4K video.
They kinda like Apple move.
Yup! Its beginning to feel like an apple product 🙄
Lol , great start
I mean it really just sounds like you didn’t do your research.
Agreed! Unless you did and synology specifically said it can work. Otherwise, it's on you to verify what the capabilities are before you purchase. Perhaps, it's a feature they will add in the near future so all isn't lost.
Get an asustor flashtor. Period.
I have, but not the flashtor :) I will be talking about it soon