The new connie design is one of my favorite, they did a good job from a looks stand point. If the came out with a remastered versions of TOS, DS9 and Enterprise with this in place of the old connie design i would buy it.
Then why redo it at all? they could have started the show looking like it belonged in the era without showing the Enterprise at all. now i don't mind the design, but i want it in its own universe, they could end this debate right now just by saying that the Discovery universe is not prime timeline, but is part of a completely different universe that shares many similarities to the prime timeline just more advanced looking.
Yes it is a work of fiction, but its a work of fiction that only works if there is continuity between all eras, now it is true that star trek has been plagued by continuity issues all throughout its history, starting with the klingon redesign in TMP, but it was something that was corrected later on with that episode in Star Trek Enterprise that showed why the Klingons looked the way they did in the original series, and its things like this that Discovery has thrown out the window, resulting in all the fans being divided over issues like this.
The Federation has a SERIOUS temporal incursion problem if this Connie goes down as is in cannon history. I like it on its own...but wedging it into the prime cannon time line is a job i don't wont. Nice vid guys.
I think that this new Constitution Class is objectively good, and better than the Kelvin Timeline Constitution, but I don't like it as much as the original.
I love the design, but that isn't the issue. The real controversy is that the current controllers of the franchise insist that DSC and TOS are one and the same timeline/universe. This stands in contrast to the previous 50 years in which the visual constancy of Star Trek: The Original Series was affirmed repeatedly in DS9 and ENT.
Again, fan service. You need to get over it. I'll make you a deal. I'll get on board with knocking every little detail, when you can explain how Zefram Cochrane got to some weird planet and didn't recognize the name "Enterprise" or the federation, or anything about the future. Oh, and how did he become human?
Actually he was from Alfa Centauri. Humans met them when they first started exploring the galaxy, with non warp ships. You do realize that humans were exploring other solar systems, before warp drive, right? You do realize that "First Contact" was a retcon, right? That's part of your "50 years of continuity and history".
I suggest you re-watch metamorphosis. Kirk: Do you have a first name? Cochran: Zefram. Kirk: Zefram Cochran? Of Alpha Centauri? The discoverer of the space warp? And don't forget the book Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology. It was, in fact, canon, until it wasn't.
I'm a little confused - on the one hand Trekyards accept that DSC is a visual reboot (which in turn affects certain aspects of pre-existing plot, character etc, in effect rendering the show as it's own narrative continuity). However, many recent vids also try to see how DSC would fit into TOS continuity. This is akin to shoving a square peg into a round hole - they were never supposed to fit together - am I missing something?
When Discovery was first announded CBS made a big deal about if being set in the 'prime timeline'. They backed away from that claim over the course of production, but it really stuck with some people. Now we have people performing all manner of mental gymnastics to try to fit DSC in with the rest of the franchise when, quite frankly (and in my opinion), they shouldn't bother because it doesn't.
I don't dislike the new look objectively, but why cause the controversy at all when you can write stories on the other end of the timeline? After nemesis, where you can have trek alums cameo their tng, ds9, voy characters. They can create new Canon without jumping on the hated prequel bandwagon, and truly differentiate themselves from star wars. They can create new species from explored worlds without boxing themselves into a corner with established canon. It's like intentionally trying to build something with handcuffs on. Why restrict yourselves and simultaneously cause your story to not fit into your own lore seamlessly? Doesn't make sense. It's like they don't know a prequel isn't a requirement.
If you guys are talking about a war-time variant of the original Constitution-class, I would recommend taking a look at the episode of “Star Trek: New Voyages/Phase II” titled “Enemy: Starfleet.” The USS Eagle was turned into a warship by this space pirate named Alersa (Barbara Luna).
Regardless of what anyone says, Gene Roddenberry had a totally different USS Enterprise in mind when he created Star Trek. This is more along the lines of where he was going. The budget restraints however only allowed him to give us what we have seen in the past. Of all the re-imaginings of the USS Enterprise, this is one sleek, gorgeous, and visually appealing ships I have seen in a long time. As always, please continue making it so.
I guess I really don't care as much about scaling as you guys do. I care more about proportions. Scaling in Star Trek has always been controversial since TOS. They made stuff to look good and proportional on camera, scale wasn't always the end all factor in everything done but I feel like now days if it isn't to exact perfect scale that's all we hear about for 30 minutes. The old Enterprise wasn't the right scale for the number of people and equipment on board. That's been discussed on this channel many times also. Now that people understand scaling as it relates to modeling in a computer, scaling is more accurate now days than it anyone cared to make it in the past with ship models and camera angles. Yes that means a lot of ships if not the whole universe would have to be scaled up but, when something isn't done right in the first place, that's what happens.
Well done SC you have just proven why your opinion is worthless, stooping to a grade school level by insulting one of the hosts of the channel picking on his last name, Real mature. Please do us all a favor and disappear.
Star Trek actually didn't have scaling issues until DS9, when CGI began to be used heavily. A physical model never changes, CGI is different from scene to scene. Once the Defiant on DS9 was fully CGI, not only did it change scale, but various parts of the ship actually changed their appearance. The Defiant front Deflector and impulse engines visually change various times through the series due to different people working on the CGI model of the ship.
The Smoking Dog from wgat I understand the reverse is true. The models weren't made with a certain fraction of scaling in mind, but instead certain sizes were always chosen based on how to manipulate the model and shoot it for argument detail resolution. This is why the defiant was inconsistently sized, because the ships it's shot near were made for their look, not made to be relative scale to the defiant. This is why defiant isn't tiny compared to Klingon cruisers and warbirds. Once those models are made they don't change them, whereas the scale of a cgi model can be changed at will, either for effect, or for scale accuracy.
The scaling doesn't bother me as they never give numbers during the show, so I can ignore any behind the scenes scaling information as that's easily fixed by hitting the backspace and then typing in the correct number. This is a cool re-imagining that I would have loved to have seen in 2009. Updated but also respectful to the ships origins, with a touch of love for the Connie Refit splattered in there. Well done, can't wait to see this thing kick ass alongside the Discovery.
Actually, about the window thing. I was watching DS9 and the Runabouts actually had a blast shield to close the window. They could just say they had that stuff already, and for Starships. It’s not complicated tech or anything like that, to have a closing blast shield in/behind a window.
Love the new look, modernized to the newer Star Trek, has some similarities to the NX-01 which makes sense. I'm one of those who believe the timeline changed a bit because of First Contact, with the Borg and crew of Enterprise E changing things, why the NX-01 exists and is similar to the E since Cochrane saw the ship with his own eyes and helped design the NX-01. The Enterprise XCV-330 ringship (from Motion Picture painting) no longer exists and replaced by the NX-01 in this post First Contact timeline.
I would like to hear discussion about comparing this Enterprise to the design of the Defiant they created which was in many ways closer to the original Constitution. Just another example of how the show isn't even consistent with itself, showing ships of the same class with _vastly_ different Construction, for no particular reason. They could have shown the Defiant diagram as being consistent with the Enterprise, or since it was just a computer readout they could have made the wire frame model exactly like the original Constitution. Either way since they are the same class of ship, *they should have at least made them consistent to each other.* This thing is such a mess, it is impossible to even take it seriously when something so simple as this inconsistency and the ridiculous scaling that is impossible when you take into account things such as windows and airlocks, basic simple detailsthey aren't able to get right or consistent from episode to episode, not even comparing to other Star Trek, comparing to *their own New Canon.* So even if you accept Discovery as Canon. We already now have in consistencies within that and the whole thing just falls apart by pulling on the simplest thread... Shame that this debacle will probably lead to many many years before anyone attempts another live-action Star Trek show because of the profound way this was mismanaged.
When a ship design has a long production run, things change over time as technology advances. For a real-life example, the destroyer USS Lenah H. Sutcliffe Higbee (DDG-123) is the newest Arleigh Burke class destroyer. Compared to USS Arleigh Burke (DDG-51), the Higbee is longer by ten feet, more massive by 2,000 tons, has a very different superstructure, a higher bridge, a helicopter hanger, more missile cells and an improved gun with a stealthier housing. You can still recognize the two ships as belonging to the same class, but they are very different in detail. Similarly, the USS George H.W. Bush (CVN-77) is a very different ship than the USS Nimitz (CVN-68). Ship classes change over time - observers often place ships with similar characteristics within a class into "subclasses," which many Trek fans have adopted as well - for example, the differences between USS Venture and other seen Galaxy-class ships. At worst, Enterprise and Defiant belong to different subclasses of the Constitution class. The change of the pylons, as well, resolves a serious problem in the original design - because of where the pylons enter the hull on the straight-pylon design they impose severe restrictions on the size of the shuttlebay and its supporting facilities, whereas because the angled pylons enter the hull much further up the slope, they allow for a far larger shuttlebay, larger hangars, connected cargo storage and handling facilities in the secondary hull, any number of additional benefits. Defiant is further called out as having been modified over her century in service in the Terran fleet, as well.
While I like the new design, it's so much better than the JJ versions, there is a scale problem that was brought up in a previous video. They have sized it so that the shuttlebay is about the same size as the bridge which is a problem. On the original they are in correct proportion to each other so either this new Enterprise has a cavernous Bridge or a tiny tiny eBay that only fits two shuttles parked very tightly together. But definitely, absolutely, it is far superior to anything in the new Star Trek movies and I think is a beautiful design and just needed maybe one more pass to make sure those details were right, and I'm a firm believer that Windows dictate the scale above everything else so I'm not buying the upscaling issue trying to retcon errors and filming. The windows are the windows, the doors are the doors, any airlock or Docking Bay is going to be roughly six feet and there's your scale that should be applied to everything no matter what the studio says or what is shown on screen. Imo!
The Angled struts were practically introduced in Enteprise with the NX-01. of course if we got that fabled 5th season we would have seen the NX01 re-fit. and the first real introduction of angled struts from a secondary hull. So this design here really fits that lineage of design.
I like hearing you guys say "visual reboot". I think this Enterprise is as good as TOS fans could have hoped for. I don't see why STD cannot be Prime and be a visual reboot as well. Its not like going from Christopher Reeve to Nicholas Cage wearing the Superman suit ;)
I think a good portion of what is giving it a older grungier NX look, is the very obvious high iso noise and the visible pattern of the vinyl it was printed on. Need to see it in equal quality as the Defiant model.
When you can't get enough of Star Trek, there is "TREKYARDS". Thanks for what you do guys. I always loved the original design of the Enterprise when I first saw it on the little screen so many years ago. And then when Star Trek: The Movie came out, I loved that version as well. So this new one having features from both styles is a fine looking ship. I look forward to seeing it animated.
Question, am I wrong do the three lights around the bridge look like something that is around the sensor dome on the bottom of the saucer on the refit?
I love what they did with the Enterprise. They made just enough changes to update the design so it would fit in with the visual effects and the show of today while still keeping the original design mostly intact. One of my favorite parts is the secondary hull. The Kelvin Enterprise's hull looked underdesigned, especially around the shuttle bay. Here, it looks perfectly proportional to the rest of the ship. I hope they make this into a model kit.
Copper color and hull paneling did not bother me as an upgrade could have been adding the gray color as a material coating over the original hull, sort of like vinyl siding a house. As for scaling... is it me or does the turbo lift at the back of the bridge look the same size on both?
I have to say, I like this ship, though I wish it had the white iridescence of the motion picture and JJ 2009 ships had... such glorious white shiny perfection, like a billion dollar naval yacht.
i would love to see a side by side comparison of the Tos Enterprise next to the TMP refit. And see how much of the original remained. The silhouette remains, but everything Tos is replaced. Traditional naval practice of a refit typically means key systems are upgraded. But the overall hull of the ship remains. When the Tos refit to TMP happened, everything, including the hull/shell of the ship is lost.
For me the only way I can accept starfleet ships going from the rustic look to the flat white TOS look is that starfleet made new advancements in armor tech and applied it to its fleet go protect them from future enemies. Maybe the new armor had changed the materials used which in turn changed the color as well
(stepping into character for a bit) Ahem. I was there when they started assembling the primary components in the San Francisco Fleet Yards. I took her through her first shakedown and her first five years. I don't care what Chris or Jim did later, she'll always be MY ship. :D
I can understand the visual reboot thing. I even think it looks good. I just wish they'd be honest about it. Calling it Prime universe isn't defensible for many reasons. I still think if you wanted a visual update that stayed true to the constraints of the Prime universe, you could do it. Seems like the producers/writers just didn't want to work within those constraints.
Post Voyager is a sill growing Federation where wars can happen, and you don't need to alter canon to set a show there. If you're going to set it in the history of a franchise you need to respect that franchise's canon.
Here's another question. ... How close side by side, ( ignoring scale, the skin, replace the nacelles and deflector dish ) is the NCC 1701 USS Enterprise from Discovery and the NCC 1701 USS Enterprise from the first 3 movies. Would be interesting to see just how close they might be
I mean, I love it. I much prefer the shorter neck and swept-back struts, but I probably wouldn't have gone with the exelcior-esque bit at the back of the saucer.
Just wanted to let u guys know I love the show I am such a star trek purest it's so nice to see someone else who loves the TOS conny as much as me ty for what u do and keep it ip
(9:02 into the video) -Is it me, or do those impulse engines in the Discovery Enterprise, with its fins, reminiscent of the Excelsior Class? And while I'm at it, isn't that bridge dome light huge when compared size by size to the TOS? [If you already touched on these issues, I apologize.]
Scaling aside, picturing the evolution of NX -> NX-Refit -> DSC Connie (as a substitution for "what we were really seeing" in TOS/classic Connie appearances) -> Refit Connie -> Excelsior, etc actually works really well, visually. Arguably better than NX -> NX-Refit -> Classic Connie -> Connie Refit. As iconic as classic TOS designs were, they were always a bit of a bump in the road in terms of visual design for the franchise as a whole, since many details (strut angles, lack of nacelle grill lights, etc) were born out of production limitations of the time and don't align as well with the designs set before and after its time period. At the very least, this could retroactively replace just The Cage incarnation of the ship (since it was a pilot, etc) so you'd only have to do one post-DSC refit to make it look like a classic Connie (again, scaling issues aside) instead of doing unnecessary back-and-forth "war refits" and the like.
Like I said before, now that we’ve seen the new Enterprise from different angles, I’d like to see it rendered in CG and try to replicate something like the Original Series opening sequence. But whose voice should deliver the famous monologue, “Space: The Final Frontier?” I think you guys at Trekyards should be the ones to decide. The way I see it, there are three possible deliveries of that monologue: 1. William Shatner, 1966: the delivery that appeared at the start of the entire Original Series. 2. Leonard Nimoy, 1982 or 2009: another very famous delivery of the monologue, which was used at the end of the films. 3. The Kelvin Cast, 2016: used at the end of “Star Trek Beyond” as the Enterprise was being rebuilt. 4. Shatner, Nimoy, Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols and George Takei: various recordings of their voices from different times/sources edited together as seamless as possible. Including the background sound effect of the Enterprise whooshing past (vocal effect by Alexander Courage) and the Original Series Theme Composed by Alexander Courage (Arrangements by Gregory Smith and Jeff Russo.) Basically, Greg’s start of the theme which transitions (using Courage’s whoosh effect) into Jeff’s adaptation of the main theme.
Guys. The turbo lift hatch doesn’t have to line up with the bridge, it could just be any turbo lift. No reason the bridge’s lift has to be the one that leads to the hatch.
In regards to the "refinement down" or "squashing" of the design, I imagine these design changes were made purely for the aspect ratio of televisions now being commonly 16:9. The Enterprise was originally designed for a 4:3 style TV, so some of these changes were likely done to make the Enterprise "fill the screen" better @ 16:9. I have no real bases for that but it is just my thoughts on the matter. As for the original ToS model, let us not forget that the model was designed to be "upside down" from what we know it today, and likely many of the design choices were more in line with that in mind. I have to wonder if any changes were made to the model because of the decision to "turn the model upside down" as we know it today and throughout all series, but perhaps some of the ToS models intent is still rooted in its original orientation? Overall, I think it really nails the point home that DISC is at least TRYING to respect the prime timeline, even with though the Enterprise has been visually upgraded.
It could be argued that the 60s Constitution as a ship that chronologically came later - has a solid, smooth surface to make it more fortified against enemies. That includes the front 'bay windows'. This lesson just hasn't been learned yet, perhaps. You could make the same argument for the Defiant in the 2-part Mirror Universe episode of Enterprise, 'Through a Mirror, Darkly'. Unfortunately I think canon has been changed. I'm fine with re-sizing, but not the look change.
The Refit is my favorite Enterprise design, and one of my favorite sci-fi designs in general. The Discovery Enterprise has many elements of the Refit, which I like. I’d like to see the Discovery Enterprise design with either the TOS grey hull or the Refit white hull. It almost looks like another step between the TOS and the Phase 2 designs. Like it would go TOS, Discovery Design, Phase 2, and then Refit.
I almost wonder if the definition of the saucer, along with the bigger section for the impulse Tech, actually houses a Spore drive that was added after Discovery started showing promise with it and during the war
I'm starting to think that if they say the Enterprise is significantly larger than TOS, they'll explain it by pulling a 'Defiant' and saying that they just transferred the registry and name between ships.
Honest question though, if we ignore the Cage Enterprise model, does this model make more sense? This could be the original configuration, and sometime in the next 10 years, it's refitted into the TOS configuration we see in the series.
They cannot really reboot TOS. What's shown in TOS, TNG, and DS9 is still canon. I can accept the show as a separate entity, but the producers still claim this to be prime canon.
Lady Wanderer Nah, I’m with SC. You need to get over it. It’s a beautiful modernized Enterprise using technology the TOS producers wished they had at the time.
I just treat it as a third separate timeline by this point. Temporal Cold War, Borg and Nero timetravelling can't fully explain the Klingons now though.
I believe that the swept back pylons are very important because straight ones would be far weaker structurally than the back swept versions. I'm sure had real engineers had looked at the E before the Cage, they would have suggested backswept pylons before building the original ship.
The new ship does look nice but I’m just happy they didn’t go too overboard like 2009 ship, FYI transparent aluminium does exist in really life it’s called alon transparent armor and nasa are thinking about using it on the iss
I live by one simple rule: "never put more thought into it than the showrunners." That's why the scale and look of this Enterprise doesn't phase me at all. I love this design. Never liked the TOS version, this is on my Eaglemoss display of Enterprises. This is my Enterprise (No bloody A, B, C, D, E, or F) lol
i think there was a temporal incursion when michael went back in time to save herself, so this timeline has differences due to that little change, where the klingon war changed the ships made after the start of the war so some became bigger like this Enterprise, but not necessarily ships after control was taken out, and not to mention the ship plans ect that came over from the Defiant that came over from the terran empire, either temporal incursion would cause a new timeline
The TOS version represents high tech ideas in 1964. I’m fine with the 2018 version. BTW the side view new is reversed... intentional or oops on your part?
The original picture had it flipped to read the registry correct (the port side (or left side) of the ship). To compare to the original (starboard side), they flipped the picture so you were seeing the 'same' side.
🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very well informatively executed and explained very well as always guys indeed, The Discovery Enterprise looks more like a refit than to the original Enterprise for sure👌...
Overall I don't dislike this design. I do dislike the reasons for it's existence. In profile it 's too close to the TMP refit. While the neck is too short to me, making the angle of the front and rear edges the same makes sense, as does making it thicker. I don't like that enormous impulse deck- spoils the lines of the saucer. I really don't like the angle at the edge of the saucer. It's too severe. The secondary hull is too barrel shaped, and the fantail is too stretched out. The lip aft of the shuttlebay doors is pointless to me, as it doesn't seem big enough to land anything on except maybe a workbee, but the only reason to do that would be if the doors couldn't open, but then you'd have to beam the workbee out, which again, makes the lip pointless. They're not going to strap cargo onto it like the roof rack on a car, so why do it? My biggest issues are, like a lot of people, are with the swept pylons. I could have lived with thicker pylons or ones with the inexplicable slit if they were straight, or just slightly swept back, but this is far too close to the TMP version. I know it was a last second change, but it yet another thing they didn't need to do. Then there's the nacelles. Taken as a whole, they're OK. but they look like a pair of sonic screwdrivers strapped to the nacelles. No need for them to be tapered, ZERO need for the clamp looking bits around the bussard collectors, and the aft tips look, like so much else in STD, like they were the way we'd expect them to look, but someone got a bug up their butt about stretching it out, and stretch they did. The nacelles also look bloated and bulky and too big relative to the ship. But now I realize this isn't the TOS Enterprise, just updated. It's the TMP version downgraded to look older and simpler. In that light it works. Of course, (and this is where all the people who seem like they're willing and eager to erase TOS from existence) looking at it that way requires believing that the TOS Enterprise, and the one seen in The Cage and The Menagerie never existed, all for the sake of making Discovery's hastily converted Kelvin timeline designs and scaling fit into the prime timeline. That's just too much to a lot of us to accept, particularly after all the other bad decisions they pushed through just to get product out there the could charge us to watch. People keep bringing up that a lot of this is in the spirit of what Gene would have done if he could have, and gleefully parade concept drawings about like they were gospel. They're ideas that never made it on screen, and nothing more. These same folks will also take time out of their day to crap on concept art like the McQuarrie design that Discovery is based on. I think its a bad design for a hero ship, and was glad it never went anywhere until STD. It's a bad basis for designing the hero ship, and the results bear that out. The first version was ok, but instead of complaining that the nacelles should look somewhere between ENT and TOS and not boxy, went on about how stubby and short they were. We know what happened after that.
I wonder if the fact that the vfx studio changed from straight to angled pylons, added the negative space to pylons (the slits) and changed the registry font as part of the 25% requirements. I could buy it as a simple way to make compliance instead of changing something else
While using the phone to illustrate how technology gets aesthetically simpler and SMALLER, nobody has considered the TV, which is simpler but ever growing. (Maybe in the future, it will be wall-sized.)
I look at the new design and for some reason I keep wanting to add an extra deck to the neck height. I love the design but it's just a bit squished. I will say though for me the TOS E always rules, it's not supposed to be the sleekest, fastest, baddest ship in the fleet. The Tos E always looked like it had real mass and weight a heavy beast of a ship something that needed a big turning circle. The Enterprise was a work horse not a race horse.
I hear what Samuel is saying about the original Connie, it always struck me as odd that the neck was wider at the top than it was at the bottom, it almost seems like that element should have been switched and reversed, or been at the same angle as they did when they did the refit. That is just one element of the original design that always looked a little off, and I have to admit that I do like the pylons at an angle. But specifically the neck in the original design, I think that's a very curious design choice to make it smaller at the base than it is at the top?
They've taken the A and changed the neck, lengthened the back at the clam shell doors and stuck nx warp nacelles on it. It's meant to be pre kirk it looks like a refit between TOS and the movie Enterprise A
I really like the updated design and agree that this is how the ship should have looked in the JJ movies. Having said that, I wish the design wasn’t so squat looking, and the secondary Hull seems slightly undersized.
My only real problem is the color scheme of the Enterprise from DISC. I prefer the original silvery paint job from TOS than the copper version seen on “Discovery.” I would ask the VFX team that rendered it to use the original 11-ft. model at the Smithsonian for color reference for its next appearances on “Discovery.”
I don't find the scale issue of new Enterprise a big problem, as the USS Defiant's and Delta Flyers scale where often all over the place. Scaling is something Star Trek has always has a loss approach to. I think the TOS Enterprise design would have held up fine in DISCO it worked great in A Mirror Darkly. But if they had to redesign it this the best redesign I seem on screen.
you know how modern CGI is made? You make the model and scale it to fit the scene. Upscale or downscale. It happened with USS Vengeance and it happened with Ent-E in First Contact. I recently realised that it wasn't the defiant that got downscaled, it was 1,5 or 2km 1701-E. Why? to make an imposing, dramatic entrance. Cinematography differs from real world because it manipulates emotions. Every filmmaker will choose a better emotional response over size-continuity.
I like the original design, as primitive as it appears in contrast and as limited as it was because of standard definition television back in its day. I've always viewed Star Trek as art imitating life with regards to production sensibilities yet wanting to shape life as art seeks out to do. The thing that I see STD doing is to reflect current times which are both dark and shiny. The thing is that I see Matt Jeffries' design mirroring post WWII sensibilities of the day it was imagined by Roddenberry and that starships were akin to the then-new nuclear powered Navy ships of the 1950s; they were suddenly bigger than their WWII predecessors but not much more advanced with regards to how they were constructed in drydock or advancements in other basic systems such as power distribution, comm systems or even water reclamation. Look at current US Navy ships: apart from improvements in communicating beyond the ship, living and working accommodations have basically remained the same as they were in the 1950s. I'm willing to see Enterprise as canon because at the time of the beginning of the show, the starships were still experimental and it was set in an era not as far into the future. Discovery OTOH seems more intent to reboot everything visually and shuns originality by seeking to rewrite canon instead of coming up with what it should have: a continuation of Star Trek 50 years in the future. Personally, I would rather see a reboot of the era of the Enterprise C where there was much less "canon" in the televised form of Star Trek to rewrite.
I think it's a very cool design. It feels like a true homage to the Connie, Refit and NX. My only quarrel with it, is my only quarrel with Discovery: if only CBS were to came forward and publicly admit: "It is a visual reboot", I'd be at peace. That, of course, doesn't change the fact that this is a killer design. However did it made a good job.
I think the Captain is right about the struts. If it had straight ones this would be an excellent update and be perfectly acceptable as the Original Enterprise.
There is an inconsistency with the black bands on the engines. They are not symmetrical, on the starboard side the black band lines up with the gap in the pylons, and on the port side the black band detail lines up with the rear pylon segment. It really is a nice design though, just needed one more pass by knowledgeable *Star Trek continuity experts* to make it truly exceptional.
I think they are going for a visual reboot of the TOS era while keeping the rest intact since honestly TOS is the only one that sticks out due to the production limitations of the time. The DSC Enterprise looks much more like something that could be refited to the TMP version than the original. So what I am thinking is that they try to be between ENT and TMP stylewise. Maybe you can compare the DSC Enterprise to the TMP refit Enterprise?
If you watch chaos on the bridge there is an enterprise at paramount with the points on the bussards and internal blue nacelles, maybe that's what rodenberry wanted..
I actually have mixed feelings about the the redesign, i mean the pylons make her look like a "what if" the Enterprise refit/A was bult using technology from the beginning of the 23rd century and i agree about the upscaleing with wrong scaled windows ruins the parts that do look inpresive.
Hi Guys, I think the new design is great, but it's just not the 1960's Enterprise that I grew up with. I guess it's like the Doctor Who that you grow up with is usually your favorite Doctor. By the way, why is "NCC-1701" backwards on the nacelle (side view)? :-)
The secondary hull still looks too squat/short to me. I can excuse the nacelles as a pre-pre-refit. The larger intercoolers make them look older/less advanced.
Honestly, if you look at the original and compare it to the Discovery version, the original looks like it could be a refit of the discovery version. Smaller more efficient impulse deck, redesign warp nacelle pylons, new paint job, I could see the original being a refit of discovery version.
Pylons and nacelles are like nx 01 it works. Shape does not matter in space so an engine upgrade to Kirk era might need straight pylons to the nacelles it works love it
They had to make it twenty five percent different for legal reasons. That's what John Eaves had said in a facebook post that he was forced to later delete by CBS. Which Discovery uses the same "copyright" that is used by the JJ Star Trek films, its why they have the same delta pattern in the uniforms that were used in the 2009 JJ Abrams Star Trek film. Its possible, though highly unlikely, that after the Viacom CBS merger that Discovery could be changed to look like something resembling a Star Trek series once they have Trek under one roof.
It's very nice design work. Let's simply count it as a fan version and agree there was no Trek since _Enterprise_ ended. And let's hope the franchise will be back in the hands of caring/competent/creative people again some day... 😢
It's better than the JJprise, and better than the Defiant wireframe in season 1, but it's a reimagining, and that's that. Unless I hear differently from John Eaves himself, I'm going to assume that understands that fans wanted this ship to be as true to the original as possible, and that the Producers forced the changes we see. Television executives and most television Producers don't understand Science Fiction, or science fiction fans, and this is a good example of how they fail. The changed Enterprise isn't a fatal flaw, but it certainly breaks continuity, and damages immersion, that suspension of disbelief that is so important. To me, it's like filming a remake of Bonnie and Clyde, with Glocks instead of revolvers, and Corvettes instead of a Ford Model 18. One could argue I suppose that it was the original series that misrepresented the 23rd century, not the current series, but that's a very weak argument when everyone knows that it's all fiction.
Okay, Gunsmoke then. Or how about a Back to the Future 1.5, all about Doc Brown on his first trip to the future, but the car is a McLaren instead of a DeLorean.
Of Course I'm aware. I chose them because you had a problem with my Bonnie and Clyde analogy. The analogies are not perfect, but the point is, when you take an established story, and then throw in something that doesn't fit, it damages the entire story.
So exciting , I can not wait till it's released on DVD 💖 great vid guys , thanks 🖖 p.s. the discovery bridge is to big , it kinda dosent feel like a star fleet bridge 🤔
“Well, it’s a new ship, but she’s got the right name.” Captain Foley, do you think you could get in touch with the guy who did the opening title sequence for Trekyards and ask him to create the DISC version of the Enterprise in CG and moving so we can see the whole thing?
What really sells one of these ships is movement. I really want to see this variant moving from different angles. Now that we know what it looks like from all those angles, let’s see it in motion. “Thrusters ahead, Mr. Cockings. Take us out.”
S C I saw that last shot, but it wasn’t enough for me make a proper decision about it. If someone could render a CG model of it, possibly to recreate the Original Series opening, then I’ll be in a better position to make a judgment.
The new connie design is one of my favorite, they did a good job from a looks stand point.
If the came out with a remastered versions of TOS, DS9 and Enterprise with this in place of the old connie design i would buy it.
No....
I don't know what the rest of ya'll think, but i love the original TOS design.
Me to I like the design but just don't fitbin pre cage era
Then why redo it at all? they could have started the show looking like it belonged in the era without showing the Enterprise at all. now i don't mind the design, but i want it in its own universe, they could end this debate right now just by saying that the Discovery universe is not prime timeline, but is part of a completely different universe that shares many similarities to the prime timeline just more advanced looking.
Yes it is a work of fiction, but its a work of fiction that only works if there is continuity between all eras, now it is true that star trek has been plagued by continuity issues all throughout its history, starting with the klingon redesign in TMP, but it was something that was corrected later on with that episode in Star Trek Enterprise that showed why the Klingons looked the way they did in the original series, and its things like this that Discovery has thrown out the window, resulting in all the fans being divided over issues like this.
I agree, Doc Zolfer. For all the differences, they can't beat the original, classic design.
+Doc Zolfer The TOS Design easily beats any redesign!
The Federation has a SERIOUS temporal incursion problem if this Connie goes down as is in cannon history. I like it on its own...but wedging it into the prime cannon time line is a job i don't wont. Nice vid guys.
I think that this new Constitution Class is objectively good, and better than the Kelvin Timeline Constitution, but I don't like it as much as the original.
I agree I absolutely LOVE the redesign, but it just doesn’t fit into cannon and this shouldn’t be regarded as such.
Are those bronze cannons? Or did you mean, “canon?”; which is short for, “canonical.”
I love the design, but that isn't the issue.
The real controversy is that the current controllers of the franchise insist that DSC and TOS are one and the same timeline/universe. This stands in contrast to the previous 50 years in which the visual constancy of Star Trek: The Original Series was affirmed repeatedly in DS9 and ENT.
Well, it was affirmed twice. That's not quite "consistently".
Again, fan service. You need to get over it. I'll make you a deal. I'll get on board with knocking every little detail, when you can explain how Zefram Cochrane got to some weird planet and didn't recognize the name "Enterprise" or the federation, or anything about the future. Oh, and how did he become human?
Actually he was from Alfa Centauri. Humans met them when they first started exploring the galaxy, with non warp ships. You do realize that humans were exploring other solar systems, before warp drive, right? You do realize that "First Contact" was a retcon, right? That's part of your "50 years of continuity and history".
I suggest you re-watch metamorphosis. Kirk: Do you have a first name? Cochran: Zefram. Kirk: Zefram Cochran? Of Alpha Centauri? The discoverer of the space warp? And don't forget the book Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology. It was, in fact, canon, until it wasn't.
Really? OMG! Do all the mental gymnastics you want. One of the only, truly consistent things in Star Trek, has been its inconstancies.
I'm a little confused - on the one hand Trekyards accept that DSC is a visual reboot (which in turn affects certain aspects of pre-existing plot, character etc, in effect rendering the show as it's own narrative continuity). However, many recent vids also try to see how DSC would fit into TOS continuity. This is akin to shoving a square peg into a round hole - they were never supposed to fit together - am I missing something?
When Discovery was first announded CBS made a big deal about if being set in the 'prime timeline'. They backed away from that claim over the course of production, but it really stuck with some people. Now we have people performing all manner of mental gymnastics to try to fit DSC in with the rest of the franchise when, quite frankly (and in my opinion), they shouldn't bother because it doesn't.
I don't dislike the new look objectively, but why cause the controversy at all when you can write stories on the other end of the timeline? After nemesis, where you can have trek alums cameo their tng, ds9, voy characters. They can create new Canon without jumping on the hated prequel bandwagon, and truly differentiate themselves from star wars. They can create new species from explored worlds without boxing themselves into a corner with established canon. It's like intentionally trying to build something with handcuffs on. Why restrict yourselves and simultaneously cause your story to not fit into your own lore seamlessly? Doesn't make sense. It's like they don't know a prequel isn't a requirement.
If you guys are talking about a war-time variant of the original Constitution-class, I would recommend taking a look at the episode of “Star Trek: New Voyages/Phase II” titled “Enemy: Starfleet.” The USS Eagle was turned into a warship by this space pirate named Alersa (Barbara Luna).
I just like the TOS look
I like this disc design it looks like the ideas before what it became on tos version I think it looks like its nx plating before an upgrade
Regardless of what anyone says, Gene Roddenberry had a totally different USS Enterprise in mind when he created Star Trek. This is more along the lines of where he was going. The budget restraints however only allowed him to give us what we have seen in the past. Of all the re-imaginings of the USS Enterprise, this is one sleek, gorgeous, and visually appealing ships I have seen in a long time. As always, please continue making it so.
I guess I really don't care as much about scaling as you guys do. I care more about proportions. Scaling in Star Trek has always been controversial since TOS. They made stuff to look good and proportional on camera, scale wasn't always the end all factor in everything done but I feel like now days if it isn't to exact perfect scale that's all we hear about for 30 minutes. The old Enterprise wasn't the right scale for the number of people and equipment on board. That's been discussed on this channel many times also. Now that people understand scaling as it relates to modeling in a computer, scaling is more accurate now days than it anyone cared to make it in the past with ship models and camera angles. Yes that means a lot of ships if not the whole universe would have to be scaled up but, when something isn't done right in the first place, that's what happens.
Well done SC you have just proven why your opinion is worthless, stooping to a grade school level by insulting one of the hosts of the channel picking on his last name, Real mature. Please do us all a favor and disappear.
Bravo, WaybackTech! #Math
What are you, twelve?
Star Trek actually didn't have scaling issues until DS9, when CGI began to be used heavily. A physical model never changes, CGI is different from scene to scene. Once the Defiant on DS9 was fully CGI, not only did it change scale, but various parts of the ship actually changed their appearance. The Defiant front Deflector and impulse engines visually change various times through the series due to different people working on the CGI model of the ship.
The Smoking Dog from wgat I understand the reverse is true. The models weren't made with a certain fraction of scaling in mind, but instead certain sizes were always chosen based on how to manipulate the model and shoot it for argument detail resolution. This is why the defiant was inconsistently sized, because the ships it's shot near were made for their look, not made to be relative scale to the defiant. This is why defiant isn't tiny compared to Klingon cruisers and warbirds. Once those models are made they don't change them, whereas the scale of a cgi model can be changed at will, either for effect, or for scale accuracy.
“Well, this is a new ship, but she’s got the right name. Now you remember that, you hear?” - Adm. Leonard “Bones” McCoy, TNG: “Encounter at Farpoint.”
What I want to see is a comparison between these two ships and the Constitution Refit.
Should have had the TMP Refit up for comparison as well
The scaling doesn't bother me as they never give numbers during the show, so I can ignore any behind the scenes scaling information as that's easily fixed by hitting the backspace and then typing in the correct number. This is a cool re-imagining that I would have loved to have seen in 2009. Updated but also respectful to the ships origins, with a touch of love for the Connie Refit splattered in there. Well done, can't wait to see this thing kick ass alongside the Discovery.
Actually, about the window thing. I was watching DS9 and the Runabouts actually had a blast shield to close the window. They could just say they had that stuff already, and for Starships. It’s not complicated tech or anything like that, to have a closing blast shield in/behind a window.
Love the new look, modernized to the newer Star Trek, has some similarities to the NX-01 which makes sense. I'm one of those who believe the timeline changed a bit because of First Contact, with the Borg and crew of Enterprise E changing things, why the NX-01 exists and is similar to the E since Cochrane saw the ship with his own eyes and helped design the NX-01. The Enterprise XCV-330 ringship (from Motion Picture painting) no longer exists and replaced by the NX-01 in this post First Contact timeline.
other then the bridge.. i can live with this updated version, this is not jarring, as the Kelvin Movie versions are....
MR Dot1 At least the abrams enterprise is in a alternate reality not forcibly in the original timeline like STD.
I would like to hear discussion about comparing this Enterprise to the design of the Defiant they created which was in many ways closer to the original Constitution.
Just another example of how the show isn't even consistent with itself, showing ships of the same class with _vastly_ different Construction, for no particular reason.
They could have shown the Defiant diagram as being consistent with the Enterprise, or since it was just a computer readout they could have made the wire frame model exactly like the original Constitution.
Either way since they are the same class of ship, *they should have at least made them consistent to each other.*
This thing is such a mess, it is impossible to even take it seriously when something so simple as this inconsistency and the ridiculous scaling that is impossible when you take into account things such as windows and airlocks, basic simple detailsthey aren't able to get right or consistent from episode to episode, not even comparing to other Star Trek, comparing to *their own New Canon.*
So even if you accept Discovery as Canon. We already now have in consistencies within that and the whole thing just falls apart by pulling on the simplest thread...
Shame that this debacle will probably lead to many many years before anyone attempts another live-action Star Trek show because of the profound way this was mismanaged.
When a ship design has a long production run, things change over time as technology advances. For a real-life example, the destroyer USS Lenah H. Sutcliffe Higbee (DDG-123) is the newest Arleigh Burke class destroyer. Compared to USS Arleigh Burke (DDG-51), the Higbee is longer by ten feet, more massive by 2,000 tons, has a very different superstructure, a higher bridge, a helicopter hanger, more missile cells and an improved gun with a stealthier housing. You can still recognize the two ships as belonging to the same class, but they are very different in detail. Similarly, the USS George H.W. Bush (CVN-77) is a very different ship than the USS Nimitz (CVN-68). Ship classes change over time - observers often place ships with similar characteristics within a class into "subclasses," which many Trek fans have adopted as well - for example, the differences between USS Venture and other seen Galaxy-class ships.
At worst, Enterprise and Defiant belong to different subclasses of the Constitution class. The change of the pylons, as well, resolves a serious problem in the original design - because of where the pylons enter the hull on the straight-pylon design they impose severe restrictions on the size of the shuttlebay and its supporting facilities, whereas because the angled pylons enter the hull much further up the slope, they allow for a far larger shuttlebay, larger hangars, connected cargo storage and handling facilities in the secondary hull, any number of additional benefits.
Defiant is further called out as having been modified over her century in service in the Terran fleet, as well.
I like it. I like how it seems like a cross between the original and the refit.
While I like the new design, it's so much better than the JJ versions, there is a scale problem that was brought up in a previous video. They have sized it so that the shuttlebay is about the same size as the bridge which is a problem.
On the original they are in correct proportion to each other so either this new Enterprise has a cavernous Bridge or a tiny tiny eBay that only fits two shuttles parked very tightly together.
But definitely, absolutely, it is far superior to anything in the new Star Trek movies and I think is a beautiful design and just needed maybe one more pass to make sure those details were right, and I'm a firm believer that Windows dictate the scale above everything else so I'm not buying the upscaling issue trying to retcon errors and filming. The windows are the windows, the doors are the doors, any airlock or Docking Bay is going to be roughly six feet and there's your scale that should be applied to everything no matter what the studio says or what is shown on screen. Imo!
The Angled struts were practically introduced in Enteprise with the NX-01. of course if we got that fabled 5th season we would have seen the NX01 re-fit. and the first real introduction of angled struts from a secondary hull. So this design here really fits that lineage of design.
I like hearing you guys say "visual reboot". I think this Enterprise is as good as TOS fans could have hoped for. I don't see why STD cannot be Prime and be a visual reboot as well. Its not like going from Christopher Reeve to Nicholas Cage wearing the Superman suit ;)
I think a good portion of what is giving it a older grungier NX look, is the very obvious high iso noise and the visible pattern of the vinyl it was printed on. Need to see it in equal quality as the Defiant model.
When you can't get enough of Star Trek, there is "TREKYARDS". Thanks for what you do guys. I always loved the original design of the Enterprise when I first saw it on the little screen so many years ago. And then when Star Trek: The Movie came out, I loved that version as well. So this new one having features from both styles is a fine looking ship. I look forward to seeing it animated.
Question, am I wrong do the three lights around the bridge look like something that is around the sensor dome on the bottom of the saucer on the refit?
Enjoyed this review! I noticed Stuart's volume was lower than Samuel's. Keep up the great content!
I love what they did with the Enterprise. They made just enough changes to update the design so it would fit in with the visual effects and the show of today while still keeping the original design mostly intact. One of my favorite parts is the secondary hull. The Kelvin Enterprise's hull looked underdesigned, especially around the shuttle bay. Here, it looks perfectly proportional to the rest of the ship. I hope they make this into a model kit.
Copper color and hull paneling did not bother me as an upgrade could have been adding the gray color as a material coating over the original hull, sort of like vinyl siding a house. As for scaling... is it me or does the turbo lift at the back of the bridge look the same size on both?
Is everybody just forgetting that Kirk's Enterprise was all ready 20 years old when he got It In TOS??
I have to say, I like this ship, though I wish it had the white iridescence of the motion picture and JJ 2009 ships had... such glorious white shiny perfection, like a billion dollar naval yacht.
i would love to see a side by side comparison of the Tos Enterprise next to the TMP refit. And see how much of the original remained. The silhouette remains, but everything Tos is replaced. Traditional naval practice of a refit typically means key systems are upgraded. But the overall hull of the ship remains. When the Tos refit to TMP happened, everything, including the hull/shell of the ship is lost.
For me the only way I can accept starfleet ships going from the rustic look to the flat white TOS look is that starfleet made new advancements in armor tech and applied it to its fleet go protect them from future enemies. Maybe the new armor had changed the materials used which in turn changed the color as well
I think I'm in the perfect position to say....WHAT THE HELL HAVE THESE BARBARIANS DONE TO MY SHIP!?!
CaptApril Your ship? Don’t forget that you are not the captain anymore, Bob. Christopher Pike took over from you and James T. Kirk from him.
(stepping into character for a bit)
Ahem.
I was there when they started assembling the primary components in the San Francisco Fleet Yards. I took her through her first shakedown and her first five years. I don't care what Chris or Jim did later, she'll always be MY ship.
:D
I can understand the visual reboot thing. I even think it looks good. I just wish they'd be honest about it. Calling it Prime universe isn't defensible for many reasons. I still think if you wanted a visual update that stayed true to the constraints of the Prime universe, you could do it. Seems like the producers/writers just didn't want to work within those constraints.
S C don’t forget the ridiculous bridge with nobs and tapes. Not to mention the nonsensical bleeping lights interface.
Post Voyager is a sill growing Federation where wars can happen, and you don't need to alter canon to set a show there. If you're going to set it in the history of a franchise you need to respect that franchise's canon.
Except STO isn't canon either.
Here's another question. ... How close side by side, ( ignoring scale, the skin, replace the nacelles and deflector dish ) is the NCC 1701 USS Enterprise from Discovery and the NCC 1701 USS Enterprise from the first 3 movies. Would be interesting to see just how close they might be
I mean, I love it. I much prefer the shorter neck and swept-back struts, but I probably wouldn't have gone with the exelcior-esque bit at the back of the saucer.
Just wanted to let u guys know I love the show I am such a star trek purest it's so nice to see someone else who loves the TOS conny as much as me ty for what u do and keep it ip
I know you guys can’t get the CG model from the show for pictures but do you think you will do a review of the Crossfield Class?
This needs a follow-up comparison with the two pilot versions on either side, especially once we know the scale of the Discoprise.
(9:02 into the video) -Is it me, or do those impulse engines in the Discovery Enterprise, with its fins, reminiscent of the Excelsior Class?
And while I'm at it, isn't that bridge dome light huge when compared size by size to the TOS?
[If you already touched on these issues, I apologize.]
Scaling aside, picturing the evolution of NX -> NX-Refit -> DSC Connie (as a substitution for "what we were really seeing" in TOS/classic Connie appearances) -> Refit Connie -> Excelsior, etc actually works really well, visually. Arguably better than NX -> NX-Refit -> Classic Connie -> Connie Refit.
As iconic as classic TOS designs were, they were always a bit of a bump in the road in terms of visual design for the franchise as a whole, since many details (strut angles, lack of nacelle grill lights, etc) were born out of production limitations of the time and don't align as well with the designs set before and after its time period.
At the very least, this could retroactively replace just The Cage incarnation of the ship (since it was a pilot, etc) so you'd only have to do one post-DSC refit to make it look like a classic Connie (again, scaling issues aside) instead of doing unnecessary back-and-forth "war refits" and the like.
Like I said before, now that we’ve seen the new Enterprise from different angles, I’d like to see it rendered in CG and try to replicate something like the Original Series opening sequence. But whose voice should deliver the famous monologue, “Space: The Final Frontier?” I think you guys at Trekyards should be the ones to decide. The way I see it, there are three possible deliveries of that monologue:
1. William Shatner, 1966: the delivery that appeared at the start of the entire Original Series.
2. Leonard Nimoy, 1982 or 2009: another very famous delivery of the monologue, which was used at the end of the films.
3. The Kelvin Cast, 2016: used at the end of “Star Trek Beyond” as the Enterprise was being rebuilt.
4. Shatner, Nimoy, Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols and George Takei: various recordings of their voices from different times/sources edited together as seamless as possible. Including the background sound effect of the Enterprise whooshing past (vocal effect by Alexander Courage) and the Original Series Theme Composed by Alexander Courage (Arrangements by Gregory Smith and Jeff Russo.) Basically, Greg’s start of the theme which transitions (using Courage’s whoosh effect) into Jeff’s adaptation of the main theme.
Guys. The turbo lift hatch doesn’t have to line up with the bridge, it could just be any turbo lift. No reason the bridge’s lift has to be the one that leads to the hatch.
What's the actual size difference supposed to be? New version is beautiful, but I don't see how it logically fits in the Prime timeline.
May want to try a comparison of the Disco-prize with John Eaves' original NX-concept.
In regards to the "refinement down" or "squashing" of the design, I imagine these design changes were made purely for the aspect ratio of televisions now being commonly 16:9. The Enterprise was originally designed for a 4:3 style TV, so some of these changes were likely done to make the Enterprise "fill the screen" better @ 16:9. I have no real bases for that but it is just my thoughts on the matter.
As for the original ToS model, let us not forget that the model was designed to be "upside down" from what we know it today, and likely many of the design choices were more in line with that in mind. I have to wonder if any changes were made to the model because of the decision to "turn the model upside down" as we know it today and throughout all series, but perhaps some of the ToS models intent is still rooted in its original orientation?
Overall, I think it really nails the point home that DISC is at least TRYING to respect the prime timeline, even with though the Enterprise has been visually upgraded.
Same thing for the transition from the D to the E
It looks like something that is a gap between the Excelsior and the Refit Enterprise..
It could be argued that the 60s Constitution as a ship that chronologically came later - has a solid, smooth surface to make it more fortified against enemies. That includes the front 'bay windows'. This lesson just hasn't been learned yet, perhaps. You could make the same argument for the Defiant in the 2-part Mirror Universe episode of Enterprise, 'Through a Mirror, Darkly'.
Unfortunately I think canon has been changed. I'm fine with re-sizing, but not the look change.
The Refit is my favorite Enterprise design, and one of my favorite sci-fi designs in general. The Discovery Enterprise has many elements of the Refit, which I like. I’d like to see the Discovery Enterprise design with either the TOS grey hull or the Refit white hull. It almost looks like another step between the TOS and the Phase 2 designs. Like it would go TOS, Discovery Design, Phase 2, and then Refit.
I almost wonder if the definition of the saucer, along with the bigger section for the impulse Tech, actually houses a Spore drive that was added after Discovery started showing promise with it and during the war
I'm starting to think that if they say the Enterprise is significantly larger than TOS, they'll explain it by pulling a 'Defiant' and saying that they just transferred the registry and name between ships.
Honest question though, if we ignore the Cage Enterprise model, does this model make more sense? This could be the original configuration, and sometime in the next 10 years, it's refitted into the TOS configuration we see in the series.
They cannot really reboot TOS. What's shown in TOS, TNG, and DS9 is still canon. I can accept the show as a separate entity, but the producers still claim this to be prime canon.
Lady Wanderer Nah, I’m with SC. You need to get over it. It’s a beautiful modernized Enterprise using technology the TOS producers wished they had at the time.
I just treat it as a third separate timeline by this point. Temporal Cold War, Borg and Nero timetravelling can't fully explain the Klingons now though.
Just one of many who disagree with you.
I believe that the swept back pylons are very important because straight ones would be far weaker structurally than the back swept versions. I'm sure had real engineers had looked at the E before the Cage, they would have suggested backswept pylons before building the original ship.
The new ship does look nice but I’m just happy they didn’t go too overboard like 2009 ship, FYI transparent aluminium does exist in really life it’s called alon transparent armor and nasa are thinking about using it on the iss
I live by one simple rule: "never put more thought into it than the showrunners." That's why the scale and look of this Enterprise doesn't phase me at all.
I love this design. Never liked the TOS version, this is on my Eaglemoss display of Enterprises. This is my Enterprise (No bloody A, B, C, D, E, or F) lol
i think there was a temporal incursion when michael went back in time to save herself, so this timeline has differences due to that little change, where the klingon war changed the ships made after the start of the war so some became bigger like this Enterprise, but not necessarily ships after control was taken out, and not to mention the ship plans ect that came over from the Defiant that came over from the terran empire, either temporal incursion would cause a new timeline
The TOS version represents high tech ideas in 1964. I’m fine with the 2018 version. BTW the side view new is reversed... intentional or oops on your part?
The original picture had it flipped to read the registry correct (the port side (or left side) of the ship). To compare to the original (starboard side), they flipped the picture so you were seeing the 'same' side.
🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very well informatively executed and explained very well as always guys indeed, The Discovery Enterprise looks more like a refit than to the original Enterprise for sure👌...
Oddly i never noticed before but is that a species 8472 bio-ship in the intro
Forgot to mention that the saucer section looks a little like the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-B because of the way they designed the impulse engines.
Overall I don't dislike this design. I do dislike the reasons for it's existence.
In profile it 's too close to the TMP refit.
While the neck is too short to me, making the angle of the front and rear edges the same makes sense, as does making it thicker.
I don't like that enormous impulse deck- spoils the lines of the saucer.
I really don't like the angle at the edge of the saucer. It's too severe.
The secondary hull is too barrel shaped, and the fantail is too stretched out.
The lip aft of the shuttlebay doors is pointless to me, as it doesn't seem big enough to land anything on except maybe a workbee, but the only reason to do that would be if the doors couldn't open, but then you'd have to beam the workbee out, which again, makes the lip pointless. They're not going to strap cargo onto it like the roof rack on a car, so why do it?
My biggest issues are, like a lot of people, are with the swept pylons. I could have lived with thicker pylons or ones with the inexplicable slit if they were straight, or just slightly swept back, but this is far too close to the TMP version.
I know it was a last second change, but it yet another thing they didn't need to do.
Then there's the nacelles. Taken as a whole, they're OK. but they look like a pair of sonic screwdrivers strapped to the nacelles.
No need for them to be tapered, ZERO need for the clamp looking bits around the bussard collectors, and the aft tips look, like so much else in STD, like they were the way we'd expect them to look, but someone got a bug up their butt about stretching it out, and stretch they did. The nacelles also look bloated and bulky and too big relative to the ship.
But now I realize this isn't the TOS Enterprise, just updated. It's the TMP version downgraded to look older and simpler. In that light it works.
Of course, (and this is where all the people who seem like they're willing and eager to erase TOS from existence) looking at it that way requires believing that the TOS Enterprise, and the one seen in The Cage and The Menagerie never existed, all for the sake of making Discovery's hastily converted Kelvin timeline designs and scaling fit into the prime timeline.
That's just too much to a lot of us to accept, particularly after all the other bad decisions they pushed through just to get product out there the could charge us to watch.
People keep bringing up that a lot of this is in the spirit of what Gene would have done if he could have, and gleefully parade concept drawings about like they were gospel. They're ideas that never made it on screen, and nothing more.
These same folks will also take time out of their day to crap on concept art like the McQuarrie design that Discovery is based on. I think its a bad design for a hero ship, and was glad it never went anywhere until STD. It's a bad basis for designing the hero ship, and the results bear that out. The first version was ok, but instead of complaining that the nacelles should look somewhere between ENT and TOS and not boxy, went on about how stubby and short they were. We know what happened after that.
Can the split in the pylon help with atmospheric entry? Any way you can compare Gabriel koerner's 1701?
I wonder if the fact that the vfx studio changed from straight to angled pylons, added the negative space to pylons (the slits) and changed the registry font as part of the 25% requirements. I could buy it as a simple way to make compliance instead of changing something else
Is there a trekyards where you detail the differences between the TOS 1701 refti and the 1701 A?
While using the phone to illustrate how technology gets aesthetically simpler and SMALLER, nobody has considered the TV, which is simpler but ever growing.
(Maybe in the future, it will be wall-sized.)
I look at the new design and for some reason I keep wanting to add an extra deck to the neck height. I love the design but it's just a bit squished. I will say though for me the TOS E always rules, it's not supposed to be the sleekest, fastest, baddest ship in the fleet. The Tos E always looked like it had real mass and weight a heavy beast of a ship something that needed a big turning circle. The Enterprise was a work horse not a race horse.
I hear what Samuel is saying about the original Connie, it always struck me as odd that the neck was wider at the top than it was at the bottom, it almost seems like that element should have been switched and reversed, or been at the same angle as they did when they did the refit.
That is just one element of the original design that always looked a little off, and I have to admit that I do like the pylons at an angle.
But specifically the neck in the original design, I think that's a very curious design choice to make it smaller at the base than it is at the top?
Cockings, Foley, do a video comparing the Discoprise to the TMP and JJ prises. :)
They've taken the A and changed the neck, lengthened the back at the clam shell doors and stuck nx warp nacelles on it. It's meant to be pre kirk it looks like a refit between TOS and the movie Enterprise A
I really like the updated design and agree that this is how the ship should have looked in the JJ movies. Having said that, I wish the design wasn’t so squat looking, and the secondary Hull seems slightly undersized.
Will you be reviewing the 'Bonus Scene'?
Could the size increase b armament and once the armament is removed it would reduce the size of the ship all the way around
My only real problem is the color scheme of the Enterprise from DISC. I prefer the original silvery paint job from TOS than the copper version seen on “Discovery.” I would ask the VFX team that rendered it to use the original 11-ft. model at the Smithsonian for color reference for its next appearances on “Discovery.”
I don't find the scale issue of new Enterprise a big problem, as the USS Defiant's and Delta Flyers scale where often all over the place. Scaling is something Star Trek has always has a loss approach to. I think the TOS Enterprise design would have held up fine in DISCO it worked great in A Mirror Darkly. But if they had to redesign it this the best redesign I seem on screen.
you know how modern CGI is made? You make the model and scale it to fit the scene. Upscale or downscale. It happened with USS Vengeance and it happened with Ent-E in First Contact. I recently realised that it wasn't the defiant that got downscaled, it was 1,5 or 2km 1701-E. Why? to make an imposing, dramatic entrance. Cinematography differs from real world because it manipulates emotions. Every filmmaker will choose a better emotional response over size-continuity.
Scaling is an issue, but I like the visual reboot. Modern Special effects guys should be able to evolve designs as new tools become available to them.
I like the original design, as primitive as it appears in contrast and as limited as it was because of standard definition television back in its day. I've always viewed Star Trek as art imitating life with regards to production sensibilities yet wanting to shape life as art seeks out to do. The thing that I see STD doing is to reflect current times which are both dark and shiny.
The thing is that I see Matt Jeffries' design mirroring post WWII sensibilities of the day it was imagined by Roddenberry and that starships were akin to the then-new nuclear powered Navy ships of the 1950s; they were suddenly bigger than their WWII predecessors but not much more advanced with regards to how they were constructed in drydock or advancements in other basic systems such as power distribution, comm systems or even water reclamation. Look at current US Navy ships: apart from improvements in communicating beyond the ship, living and working accommodations have basically remained the same as they were in the 1950s.
I'm willing to see Enterprise as canon because at the time of the beginning of the show, the starships were still experimental and it was set in an era not as far into the future. Discovery OTOH seems more intent to reboot everything visually and shuns originality by seeking to rewrite canon instead of coming up with what it should have: a continuation of Star Trek 50 years in the future.
Personally, I would rather see a reboot of the era of the Enterprise C where there was much less "canon" in the televised form of Star Trek to rewrite.
Based on the windows, I think your scaling is right.
I think it's a very cool design. It feels like a true homage to the Connie, Refit and NX.
My only quarrel with it, is my only quarrel with Discovery: if only CBS were to came forward and publicly admit: "It is a visual reboot", I'd be at peace.
That, of course, doesn't change the fact that this is a killer design. However did it made a good job.
I think the Captain is right about the struts. If it had straight ones this would be an excellent update and be perfectly acceptable as the Original Enterprise.
What would be nice is a comparison between all four enterprises , TOS, TMP, JJ, and Disco.
There is an inconsistency with the black bands on the engines. They are not symmetrical, on the starboard side the black band lines up with the gap in the pylons, and on the port side the black band detail lines up with the rear pylon segment.
It really is a nice design though, just needed one more pass by knowledgeable *Star Trek continuity experts* to make it truly exceptional.
I think they are going for a visual reboot of the TOS era while keeping the rest intact since honestly TOS is the only one that sticks out due to the production limitations of the time. The DSC Enterprise looks much more like something that could be refited to the TMP version than the original. So what I am thinking is that they try to be between ENT and TMP stylewise. Maybe you can compare the DSC Enterprise to the TMP refit Enterprise?
If you watch chaos on the bridge there is an enterprise at paramount with the points on the bussards and internal blue nacelles, maybe that's what rodenberry wanted..
I actually have mixed feelings about the the redesign, i mean the pylons make her look like a "what if" the Enterprise refit/A was bult using technology from the beginning of the 23rd century and i agree about the upscaleing with wrong scaled windows ruins the parts that do look inpresive.
Hi Guys,
I think the new design is great, but it's just not the 1960's Enterprise that I grew up with. I guess it's like the Doctor Who that you grow up with is usually your favorite Doctor. By the way, why is "NCC-1701" backwards on the nacelle (side view)? :-)
If you look at the windows, it looks like it should be the same number of decks, not scaled up.
The secondary hull still looks too squat/short to me. I can excuse the nacelles as a pre-pre-refit. The larger intercoolers make them look older/less advanced.
They could fix the struts by blowing the nacelles and struts off in a battle of some sort, and then forcing a quick, simple looking field repair.
Honestly, if you look at the original and compare it to the Discovery version, the original looks like it could be a refit of the discovery version. Smaller more efficient impulse deck, redesign warp nacelle pylons, new paint job, I could see the original being a refit of discovery version.
Pylons and nacelles are like nx 01 it works. Shape does not matter in space so an engine upgrade to Kirk era might need straight pylons to the nacelles it works love it
They had to make it twenty five percent different for legal reasons. That's what John Eaves had said in a facebook post that he was forced to later delete by CBS. Which Discovery uses the same "copyright" that is used by the JJ Star Trek films, its why they have the same delta pattern in the uniforms that were used in the 2009 JJ Abrams Star Trek film. Its possible, though highly unlikely, that after the Viacom CBS merger that Discovery could be changed to look like something resembling a Star Trek series once they have Trek under one roof.
It's very nice design work. Let's simply count it as a fan version and agree there was no Trek since _Enterprise_ ended. And let's hope the franchise will be back in the hands of caring/competent/creative people again some day... 😢
Looks better than the TOS version to me, I don't have any sentiment with the original, I like this new look.
Only if they used the phase 2 enterprise pylons instead of the TMP style.
Barry Bend Or better yet the original pylons of the classic constitution so it could blend in with trek canon.
It's better than the JJprise, and better than the Defiant wireframe in season 1, but it's a reimagining, and that's that. Unless I hear differently from John Eaves himself, I'm going to assume that understands that fans wanted this ship to be as true to the original as possible, and that the Producers forced the changes we see. Television executives and most television Producers don't understand Science Fiction, or science fiction fans, and this is a good example of how they fail. The changed Enterprise isn't a fatal flaw, but it certainly breaks continuity, and damages immersion, that suspension of disbelief that is so important. To me, it's like filming a remake of Bonnie and Clyde, with Glocks instead of revolvers, and Corvettes instead of a Ford Model 18. One could argue I suppose that it was the original series that misrepresented the 23rd century, not the current series, but that's a very weak argument when everyone knows that it's all fiction.
Okay, Gunsmoke then. Or how about a Back to the Future 1.5, all about Doc Brown on his first trip to the future, but the car is a McLaren instead of a DeLorean.
Of Course I'm aware. I chose them because you had a problem with my Bonnie and Clyde analogy. The analogies are not perfect, but the point is, when you take an established story, and then throw in something that doesn't fit, it damages the entire story.
I like the idea of everything being a little bigger
So exciting , I can not wait till it's released on DVD 💖 great vid guys , thanks 🖖 p.s. the discovery bridge is to big , it kinda dosent feel like a star fleet bridge 🤔
“Well, it’s a new ship, but she’s got the right name.” Captain Foley, do you think you could get in touch with the guy who did the opening title sequence for Trekyards and ask him to create the DISC version of the Enterprise in CG and moving so we can see the whole thing?
What really sells one of these ships is movement. I really want to see this variant moving from different angles. Now that we know what it looks like from all those angles, let’s see it in motion. “Thrusters ahead, Mr. Cockings. Take us out.”
S C I saw that last shot, but it wasn’t enough for me make a proper decision about it. If someone could render a CG model of it, possibly to recreate the Original Series opening, then I’ll be in a better position to make a judgment.