Imagined NASA: *operates using the most cutting edge technology and methods* Real NASA: *wouldn't even use cutting edge technology if they could afford it, which they can't, because super old analog shit is all that's gonna survive being hurled across the void and bouncing over the unknown landscape of a dead planet*
The marines have 2 strengths: 1) highly microable 2) very, very, high damage density. The reason why an equal amount of zealots and double the value of zerglings lost is quite simple, because those units lack damage density due to being melee. They only beat out marines when they can get a surround to beat down a single target. When the marines are clumped in a ball however the dudes 4 or 5 range units back can lend their firepower to the frontline which results in the front line enemies nearly dying instantly while the marine frontline takes only scratch damage. It is part of why for the longest time things were marine/marauder/medivac. You get far more firepower per square inch of your ball with that composition than any other faction. The main weakness however is AoE damage.
7:18 i think their strength is the fact that they're a cheap early ranged unit while the other 2 is a melee unit, if you see at 6:15, the back row marine also attacks, up to at least 7-8 row behind the frontline, that means the marine have ariound more than 6x attack power than the swarm and zealots head on since the other 2 can only attack 1 by 1, or several if they round up a lone marine
I wonder how much effect the individual-stim-micro in the marine-zealot-ling fight helped and whether they’d still win even with more limited box-selection-stimming 🤔
I guess the thing is that marines are ranged while zealots and zerglings are not. So the marines can attack the the zealots and zerglings while only a couple of them can actually fight back.
Ironically, I think the lurkers might have actually hurt the zerg in that fight - while the lurkers were "efficient", the fight was never really about efficiency - the fight was about "which side can get the other 2 to fight each other the most", and lurkers by killing all the early game units of the other races put zerg in a position where they were largely 2v1ing afterwards (if they hadn't killed so many units then it would've been more of a 3 way fight instead of a 2v1). Swarm hosts won because they sat far enough away from the fight that terran and protoss killed each other pretty much.
Not so. What happened was that melee dynamics completely screwed over the zealots and lings. ONLY the front row of them attacking can deal damage, meanwhile most of the marine backline can also deal damage via being ranged units. So 95% of both zealots and lings couldn't actually deal any damage and kind of derped around behind the front row that could deal damage, meanwhile only about 50% or so of the marines couldn't deal damage due to not having long enough ranged to shoot past the 5 range of marines in front of them who were all attacking.
Of course the marines win, they're firing 6 or 7 layers deep. For everyone one zergling or zealot that is attacking at any instant, there are 7 marines firing. As one layer dies and the zealots get closer, the next layer starts firing. They have way more combat surface area, the front layer functionally works as a forcefield for the deeper marines. Plus marine dps is crazy.
enjoyed that fighting :P you doubted the zerg in the last fight lol meanwhile i had no doubt they'd slaughter the protoss :P going to sub to him as well lowko!
04:44 There were 5x more mutslisks than Ghosts, the Ghosts couldn't cloak (because of overseers), they couldn't all fire at once like the Mutslisks could and there were still barely more than 1000 mutalists left due to patching and grouping. The ghosts were fighting at 75%-80% efficiency and still took out an average of just under 4 mutslisks each.
I think the reason the marines won is because it's on a larger scale than in a game, so the perimeter to area rario is small, most of the marines are avle to shoot withoit being attacked
With the marines vs. zealots + zerglings, in fights with such large scales, you should virtually never bet on melee units winning (unless it's something like upgraded ultralisks vs. marines) because they're way too limited by surface area.
Depends on the ratio mate and if lings would got their upgrades, zealots would also have charge then stand ground stimmed marines would lose. Especially that zealots would tank a lot more with 3/3/3 and extra few seconds for adrenal lings is a lot.
@@andrzejnadgirl2029 Unless you're talking about upgraded zealots+zerglings vs. unupgraded marines, the marines would absolutely destroy the zealots+zerglings in that fight with or without upgrades, and it wouldn't even be close either way. It's also especially weird to say so, because they literally were upgraded in the fight that they lost. Those were upgraded zealots and zerglings, and they didn't even come close to winning. The zealots were charging, it's just that.. charge isn't actually useful in that kind of fight, because the speed with which they reach the marines has nothing to do with why they're losing. They're losing because only a tiny fraction of them can attack at a time while way way more marines are attacking at a time because they're ranged. Also, the attack and armor upgrades completely cancel out so I don't know why you'd even bring them up. If both sides do +3 damage and take 3 less damage then there's no difference.
15 дней назад+4
Which is why Terran is OP. Marines are a valid option at virtually all tiers of play and have no real weaknesses.
@@andrzejnadgirl2029 Upgrades wouldn't change much with units clumped in a ball like that, for every melee unit attacking a marine there is like 5-6 marines shooting back.
The LingZealot vs Marine one makes sense when you think about how limiting the melee range is to attacking. Only the front row of Lings and Zealots could attack at any given time, while 5 or 6 marine rows (even on the inside of a conclave) are attacking at once due to their range, so they physically are capable of doing a lot more DPS at any given time.
@ No, I don’t think it would have changed much. The only significant advantage that could have been gained was if the number of marines could have been lowered to be so few that less and less rows were fighting, but in the end, the number of marines attacking is way more than the number of melee units. It’s a totally unfair fight.
@@GeneGear Eh.. even with a full surround the marines win easily. It would be marginally better for the zealots+zerglings but not by much, because there were still a lot of marines that weren't shooting anything (if they had gotten a full surround then sure more zealots+zerglings are attacking, but there would also be about the same % more marines attacking too). If there are so many units that even in a full surround the units in the middle aren't in range of attacking anything, then surrounds kind of stop being meaningful towards the outcome of a fight (unless you care about "how quickly the fight ends" instead of just which side wins).. well, unless you're dealing with an enemy that's kiting you, but the marines weren't doing that.
That classical song isnt playing in mengsk's office its playing in DuGalle's cabin when he's discussing with Stukov if he's ready to "go all the way." you should know better lowko:P
There is catch for the Marine vs Zealot/Lings, they removed the damage cause by stim, a lot of the marines kept stimming. Which make this Marine + Unlimited medivac vs Zealot+Lings.
Marines have range; zealots and zerglings do not. As such, it's about 1500 marines vs ~100 zerglings and ~100 zealots at any one time. Would have been way worse than that, even, if the AI just backed the marines into a corner to protect their backs, reducing the zealots and zerglings engaged at any point in time by about half.
1) High Templar obviously counter Zerg (lot of zerg though) 2) Muta Clump is always terrifying (once clumped it was over) 3) Marines obviously win because when comparing in "small scale" encounters, 30 marines firing at 15 zealots and 60 zerglings is really bad, but when you get to large scale, each zealot and zerg has to get into melee, meaning at most 30 zealots and 60 zerg are attacking, however row after row of marines can fire due to having the ranged benefit, so easily 300 marines are firing at any given point in time. Once you realize that, it was a given that Marines would win. 4) Void Rays vs Terran is 100% determined by when and how each force attacks the clumped up troops. If marines had been first and clumped up rays, then widow mines would've decimated them. 5) Ravager vs Zealot this one is hilarious because in small scale, zealots beat ravagers, in high numbers, ravagers beat zealots, this seems to be close to the tipping point, where enough zealots kill enough ravagers that we eventually swing into low numbers and zealots win. 6) Clumping Carriers will easily destroy non-aoe infestors (an aoe attack should not be comparable to an aoe ability. aoe attacks can occur simultaneously. Fungal Growth cannot be stacked, i.e. if 100 infestors fungal growth 1 carrier, the carrier unfortunately does not suffer 2,500 dmg per second for 3 seconds, but just 25 dmg per sec for 3 seconds. Once the carriers clump, it's over. 7) Chaos 8) Perfect Macro Reapers fully upgraded are a sight to behold (I've played the campaign too many times, I've experimented with fully upgraded reapers) 9) Again expect near perfect micro in these videos, disrupters win 10) Anti clump is anti-clump, thors once they fire up at the sky, clumped up units be gone 11) Chaos (but corruptors OP)
Hey, I know this guy! I hear he's using NASA technology to be able to run these without lag.
Love your videos!
dude, tytyty this was so freakin cool!
Imagined NASA: *operates using the most cutting edge technology and methods*
Real NASA: *wouldn't even use cutting edge technology if they could afford it, which they can't, because super old analog shit is all that's gonna survive being hurled across the void and bouncing over the unknown landscape of a dead planet*
But seriously… How?
I heard he _actually_ travelled to the future and filmed these live.
2:36 Fellow man of culture I see.
6:40 Ranged weapons for the win! The other two need contact to do damage
14:55 the best ability in the game was the archon toilet
30:03 Best Yo Mamma joke of 2025.
7:00 The indomitable human spirit
What's funnier is that something like 40 marines never even shot their guns during that fight
3:28 I mean it's kinda their thing.
6:55 , those marines were Trained in AMERICA!!
7:00 Lowko still surprised marines OP?
Reminds me of custom Starcraft 1 maps.
6:40 How are you surprised? Man with gun is really strong remember?
22:22 ok, we need Bad Apple made on rolling banelings
we need more of these!
Definitely taking notes on the void ray!!!
13:10 Melee units with charge need unit-walking, like how Ultralisk got it recently.
lol those thors took the void rays from 900 to 560
that one was like a rave where everyone died. so many lasers
The marines are a good demonstration of Lanchester's law in case anyone is curious to look up how they do it
The marines have 2 strengths: 1) highly microable 2) very, very, high damage density.
The reason why an equal amount of zealots and double the value of zerglings lost is quite simple, because those units lack damage density due to being melee. They only beat out marines when they can get a surround to beat down a single target. When the marines are clumped in a ball however the dudes 4 or 5 range units back can lend their firepower to the frontline which results in the front line enemies nearly dying instantly while the marine frontline takes only scratch damage.
It is part of why for the longest time things were marine/marauder/medivac. You get far more firepower per square inch of your ball with that composition than any other faction.
The main weakness however is AoE damage.
7:18 i think their strength is the fact that they're a cheap early ranged unit while the other 2 is a melee unit, if you see at 6:15, the back row marine also attacks, up to at least 7-8 row behind the frontline, that means the marine have ariound more than 6x attack power than the swarm and zealots head on since the other 2 can only attack 1 by 1, or several if they round up a lone marine
20:00 The Swarm hosts did not even join the fight until the end because there was no enemies nearby to agro them
I wonder how much effect the individual-stim-micro in the marine-zealot-ling fight helped and whether they’d still win even with more limited box-selection-stimming 🤔
Critical mass of Marines has been achieved.
Another blissful reminder that dark swarm is everything microbial shroud wishes it was.
16:22 isnt it the musak that plays when Dugalle is leaving the planet talking to Alexei?
I guess the thing is that marines are ranged while zealots and zerglings are not. So the marines can attack the the zealots and zerglings while only a couple of them can actually fight back.
Them high templar storms was wonderful
Feels like on the first one the banelings win if they run a little less wide, run longer not wider.
Liberators were such an upset lol
The marines against zealosts/zerglings reminds me of the famous Indiana Jones gun vs sword meme
As someone that went to Amsterdam for New Year's... I was not prepared for the amount of fireworks.
That prediction of void rays :D
1 Nuclear strike and the ghosts win... 😂😂
So many strategy variables went completely unaccounted for in these
Imagine how bad ass that 1st muta on the attack must have felt with 4999 othes flying behind it
Ghost Vs. Muta was just a Wall of ground Beef
Now this is the type of stuff I’d bet on at a casino
20:00 this is how the balance council decide the new patch
Ironically, I think the lurkers might have actually hurt the zerg in that fight - while the lurkers were "efficient", the fight was never really about efficiency - the fight was about "which side can get the other 2 to fight each other the most", and lurkers by killing all the early game units of the other races put zerg in a position where they were largely 2v1ing afterwards (if they hadn't killed so many units then it would've been more of a 3 way fight instead of a 2v1). Swarm hosts won because they sat far enough away from the fight that terran and protoss killed each other pretty much.
@@asdfqwerty14587 fax
PEAK CONTENT RIGHT HERE BOYS
6:00 Those had to be fully upgraded marines against base z&p
Not so. What happened was that melee dynamics completely screwed over the zealots and lings. ONLY the front row of them attacking can deal damage, meanwhile most of the marine backline can also deal damage via being ranged units. So 95% of both zealots and lings couldn't actually deal any damage and kind of derped around behind the front row that could deal damage, meanwhile only about 50% or so of the marines couldn't deal damage due to not having long enough ranged to shoot past the 5 range of marines in front of them who were all attacking.
Assuming at the start the marines win. The range will kill thousands while the melee reposition themselves and try to get in
in the zealots + Lings vs marines, the marines won because their ranged attack means they out DPS the melee side.
baneling literally can touch ht after its energy is exhausted
Oh man I miss these Versus matches
Lowko: You can barely even see the ghosts.
Me: Sorta the point isn't it?
30:27: the muta's weren't there to Tank, they were there as Chaff
Of course the marines win, they're firing 6 or 7 layers deep. For everyone one zergling or zealot that is attacking at any instant, there are 7 marines firing. As one layer dies and the zealots get closer, the next layer starts firing. They have way more combat surface area, the front layer functionally works as a forcefield for the deeper marines. Plus marine dps is crazy.
My computer sweating just watching thissweating
The armor reduction lasting into another aoe enemy screwed the voids
enjoyed that fighting :P you doubted the zerg in the last fight lol meanwhile i had no doubt they'd slaughter the protoss :P going to sub to him as well lowko!
Wow what a great drinking game
Cyclones doing a lot of damage, 3 voids died HAHA
Strenght in numbers boys
Lol you saying one more one more around the 21:00 minute mark made me laugh.
So splash wins, then normal ranged then melee?
Yeah, and guess what race has most of these...
04:44 There were 5x more mutslisks than Ghosts, the Ghosts couldn't cloak (because of overseers), they couldn't all fire at once like the Mutslisks could and there were still barely more than 1000 mutalists left due to patching and grouping.
The ghosts were fighting at 75%-80% efficiency and still took out an average of just under 4 mutslisks each.
They should do Warp Prism VS Lurker
Random terran: theyre everywhere
Thor: then shoot everywhere
the true winner were the nukes at the end XD
Damn was 3/3 to start then picked the rays
HE DOUBTED MEN WITH GUNS
I think the reason the marines won is because it's on a larger scale than in a game, so the perimeter to area rario is small, most of the marines are avle to shoot withoit being attacked
never underestimate the power of man with gun and combat drug overdose XD
Imagine if we got the old WoL Reapers back? Light damage, D-8 Charges against buildings, etc…
Was fun!
Straight marines has been a viable strat since sc1 for a reason lowko.
With the marines vs. zealots + zerglings, in fights with such large scales, you should virtually never bet on melee units winning (unless it's something like upgraded ultralisks vs. marines) because they're way too limited by surface area.
Depends on the ratio mate and if lings would got their upgrades, zealots would also have charge then stand ground stimmed marines would lose. Especially that zealots would tank a lot more with 3/3/3 and extra few seconds for adrenal lings is a lot.
@@andrzejnadgirl2029 Unless you're talking about upgraded zealots+zerglings vs. unupgraded marines, the marines would absolutely destroy the zealots+zerglings in that fight with or without upgrades, and it wouldn't even be close either way.
It's also especially weird to say so, because they literally were upgraded in the fight that they lost. Those were upgraded zealots and zerglings, and they didn't even come close to winning. The zealots were charging, it's just that.. charge isn't actually useful in that kind of fight, because the speed with which they reach the marines has nothing to do with why they're losing. They're losing because only a tiny fraction of them can attack at a time while way way more marines are attacking at a time because they're ranged.
Also, the attack and armor upgrades completely cancel out so I don't know why you'd even bring them up. If both sides do +3 damage and take 3 less damage then there's no difference.
Which is why Terran is OP. Marines are a valid option at virtually all tiers of play and have no real weaknesses.
@@andrzejnadgirl2029 Upgrades wouldn't change much with units clumped in a ball like that, for every melee unit attacking a marine there is like 5-6 marines shooting back.
@@asdfqwerty14587 Shame they removed damage on charge, might have made it more equal.
Me gustó el video gracias
marines have the highest dps density in the game
Those weren't Hellbats... They were Hell Divers...
1000 Ghosts vs. 5000 Mutalisks: Snipe the 5 Overseers, cloak, gg.
The LingZealot vs Marine one makes sense when you think about how limiting the melee range is to attacking. Only the front row of Lings and Zealots could attack at any given time, while 5 or 6 marine rows (even on the inside of a conclave) are attacking at once due to their range, so they physically are capable of doing a lot more DPS at any given time.
It would have been even better for the Marines if the Zealots and Zerglings had attacked from opposite directions!
Yeah, it would have been an ENTIRELY different fight had the zerglings/zealots gotten off a full surround. But the rear marines managed to prevent it.
@ No, I don’t think it would have changed much. The only significant advantage that could have been gained was if the number of marines could have been lowered to be so few that less and less rows were fighting, but in the end, the number of marines attacking is way more than the number of melee units. It’s a totally unfair fight.
@@GeneGear Eh.. even with a full surround the marines win easily. It would be marginally better for the zealots+zerglings but not by much, because there were still a lot of marines that weren't shooting anything (if they had gotten a full surround then sure more zealots+zerglings are attacking, but there would also be about the same % more marines attacking too). If there are so many units that even in a full surround the units in the middle aren't in range of attacking anything, then surrounds kind of stop being meaningful towards the outcome of a fight (unless you care about "how quickly the fight ends" instead of just which side wins).. well, unless you're dealing with an enemy that's kiting you, but the marines weren't doing that.
In fact, to add to it, a full surround would have enabled many more marines to attack, more than the other two at a ratio of 4-5:1
The Choke point is the difference
Breakfast time, Lowko time, good time :D
The marines won because they shoot, while their attackers pinch.
reapers need to get +2 per attack upgrade, maybe we could see some late game +3+3 reapers.
That classical song isnt playing in mengsk's office its playing in DuGalle's cabin when he's discussing with Stukov if he's ready to "go all the way." you should know better lowko:P
"StarCraft 2 only runs on one core" I was in highschool when I played the beta test. You just made me feel really old.
Appreciated the Netherlands fireworks comment, it is too real.
Abduct is the most powerful spell in the game, as there is no counter to it ^^
The ghosts should have dropped a nuke or two.
There is catch for the Marine vs Zealot/Lings, they removed the damage cause by stim, a lot of the marines kept stimming. Which make this Marine + Unlimited medivac vs Zealot+Lings.
Tbh that muta vs ghost fight would have gone different if some in the back had channeled a nuke or two
Or sniped detection then cloaked the rest of the army. Sadly detection usually cant be targeted unless its the army vs army matches
I feel like Marines outcome would have been different if AI got the surround properly.
If the Infestors would have fungaled the interceptors they could have won
Crazy how a 15+ year-old game can still destroy a new video card.
MAMA GAIN WEIGHT???!! *Backflip*
Marines have range; zealots and zerglings do not.
As such, it's about 1500 marines vs ~100 zerglings and ~100 zealots at any one time. Would have been way worse than that, even, if the AI just backed the marines into a corner to protect their backs, reducing the zealots and zerglings engaged at any point in time by about half.
who wins 1 dark Templer vs 10 nukes
Marines beat every single protoss unit with stim more efficiently, if protoss has zero upgrades. Actually protoss can can have glaves too.
Loosing my mind at that tank micro x.x
I want to see a pro game of starcraft 2 played at 0.5 or 0.25 speed and then sped up to standard in post.
In all fairness, the HT were on auto cast I assume and storms don't stack.
The marines are broken. Send this replay to Harstem.
How did the game run so smoothly with so many units on the screen for Stu? How to build a PC capable of dealing with SC2 1 core limit?
Lol the video I didn’t know I’d enjoy today.
Best spell in Starcraft 2: Ghosts EMP.
Burn Shields
Burn Energy
Be AOE
Pick 2.
Terrans: "No".
Shout out to STU!!!!!! Legendary!
2:34 neuron activated
Gogo Gadget Pixel Remover!
Best spell in SC2 is abduct, change my mind!
1) High Templar obviously counter Zerg (lot of zerg though)
2) Muta Clump is always terrifying (once clumped it was over)
3) Marines obviously win because when comparing in "small scale" encounters, 30 marines firing at 15 zealots and 60 zerglings is really bad, but when you get to large scale, each zealot and zerg has to get into melee, meaning at most 30 zealots and 60 zerg are attacking, however row after row of marines can fire due to having the ranged benefit, so easily 300 marines are firing at any given point in time. Once you realize that, it was a given that Marines would win.
4) Void Rays vs Terran is 100% determined by when and how each force attacks the clumped up troops. If marines had been first and clumped up rays, then widow mines would've decimated them.
5) Ravager vs Zealot this one is hilarious because in small scale, zealots beat ravagers, in high numbers, ravagers beat zealots, this seems to be close to the tipping point, where enough zealots kill enough ravagers that we eventually swing into low numbers and zealots win.
6) Clumping Carriers will easily destroy non-aoe infestors (an aoe attack should not be comparable to an aoe ability. aoe attacks can occur simultaneously. Fungal Growth cannot be stacked, i.e. if 100 infestors fungal growth 1 carrier, the carrier unfortunately does not suffer 2,500 dmg per second for 3 seconds, but just 25 dmg per sec for 3 seconds. Once the carriers clump, it's over.
7) Chaos
8) Perfect Macro Reapers fully upgraded are a sight to behold (I've played the campaign too many times, I've experimented with fully upgraded reapers)
9) Again expect near perfect micro in these videos, disrupters win
10) Anti clump is anti-clump, thors once they fire up at the sky, clumped up units be gone
11) Chaos (but corruptors OP)