Is this even legal? I bought this 12900K ES for 250€ from AliExpress
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
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Timestamps
0:00 Intro
0:58 QXLB Engineering Sample
2:58 Testing hardware
4:13 Legal situation
6:48 Testing the ES
9:18 BIOS Options
9:43 GPU via PCIe 4.0 x4?
10:51 RAM problems
11:49 CPU clock speeds
12:22 Benchmarks
13:50 Conclusion
15:37 Outro 
Наука
I think I know why it comes with the "nuclear display", because the iGPU in Mainland China is called 「核顯」, where the 「核」 can means "core" or "nuclear", and 「顯」means "display", the full term should be 「顯示卡」(display card) instead. Thus, with short term and Google Translate, you get the "nuclear display".
Thanks 😂😂😂
I want a nuclear display!
graphics powaaaaaaaah!
@@Apollo-Computers we might need them if rumours of 40xx series Nvidia cards are true.
@@angel102ify You spelled 7900XT wrong
"Nuclear" is just a matter of translation. In Chinese, nuclear and core can use the same character. We say core GPU instead of iGPU. So, it became nuclear GPU there.
I've seen barely used 12700K retails for 300-320 euro here, much more interesting than a shady ES/QS from Ali for 270-280 including tax to be honest.
Nothing shady they clearly mentioned it's a engineering sample and even sold it for much less
I mean with the BCLK OC you can just get a 12700(F) dirt cheap and just have some less E(rror)-cores on it, but still warranty and probably better potential clock speeds, making it better overall.
@@mythbuster4315 Well, it is 'shady' if not even the first PCI-E slot is working, clocks are lower, IMC is very weak....who knows what else is worse/broken that the seller doesn't know about or doesn't want to mention? Not worth the gamble at all when you're willingly buying a partially defective product.
Thats very cool for you ngl, but ins south American markets where the second hand market and retail prices are stupid, a cpu like that will be a very good deal and many AliExpress sellers do lower the declared value so the buyers can avoid also stupidly high taxes on international purchases
Well over here the best Alder Lake CPU you can buy with that money is a 12400f. Then the value proposition increases by a lot. If it weren't for the gutted PCIE 4.0 lanes this'd be a no brainer, but i already have a 12600k.
Only a German would spend several minutes worrying about whether it is legal to own a CPU sold on an open market. 😀
I mean, the CPU is technically stolen property, so he has good reason to be concerned about it. Not that intel has ever gone after a youtuber (or really any reviewer) for buying and featuring illegally obtained ES samples in their videos (as far as I know), but depending on who did it, intel might want to know who it was, if they can get their hands on the CPU's serial number at least then they can identify and trace it's origin
yes , i had the unfortunety to work with germans, the pros are they really keep their word so they are good to make biz, the cons, well i dont even know if i can explain it.... but ye very bot like, and fascist, i remenber going to the toilet and a guy left without cleaning their hands with wather, one german talked to me, did you see that guy he didnt clean hands , lets make a complain to the autorities ... and i was like, yep go ahead, i have more importants things to do, tried to pretend i cared about snitches they are like that they even went to their neighboors garbage sometimes to make complains..... the german karen is strong....
What are you trying to imply about Germans? Spell it out for me. I'm confused. Are all Asians good at math?
Whatever bias you have about different races, whether you view it as positive or negative is still racial bias, and lazy thinking on your part. Stereotypes are stereotypes at end of day.
@@TheOriginalFaxon Intel probably doesn’t give a shit tbh
I saw another vid on these engineering samples and I think the conclusion was that they fused the part off for the 1st pcie slot so they couldn't get accurate benchmarking before retail hits. It was the same thing that the 1st pcie slot didn't work. That these samples were more for the vendors to build bios code without leaking performance.
Interesting aspect. Could be possible
It was not like this up to 10th gen all the ES were fully functional. I built countless machines with qtb1 and qtb0, like around 30, pairing with ASRock z490itx/ac thunderbolt in small cases, as these chips with slightly lower clocks would top at 110w when undervolted, 30% less, and scoring 10% less in benchmarks than retail unit 10900/10850k . Then with 11gen they started with limiting the ring clock to 1.2ghz crippling memory performance a lot. I think they are doing so to take away resale value of these chips.
@@gabrielecarbone8235 there are lga 3647 engineering samples for skylake-x that get used for cheap avx-512 boxes. i know avx-512 probably isn't what intel is focused on anymore but im saying this because there's an existing grey market for mostly useless high-core low-clock engineering sample cpus for one specific area of performance to do one specific thing (using neural network upscaling software.) which is less of a problem because very few people have lga 3641 c621 chipset motherboards but i could see intel trying specifically to avoid that with alder lake, as alder lake is basically exactly as performant as skylake-x but cheaper and on a consumer socket
also as an auxilary to that, i don't think intel ever planned on china creating the grey market they did out of engineering samples. it seems crappy to cripple these things but i don't think intel expected black market resellers to attempt to directly compete with new intel products by using hacked bios updates. it's less so much that they are a direct financial threat but you can't expect them to not respond to such egregious attempts to take advantage of them
@@Cheesemonk3h true but it's a huge waste of good silicon. I'm trying to reuse recycle as much as possible with my business - and undervolted the hell out of these es to make them as efficient as possible. But sure they lost some real money just from my business alone... i was using almost exclusively es since coffee lake 8700.
In the same way i bought my i9-9900K QTj1 for notebooks but with adapter to desktop motherboard and Bios for my Asus Z170I Pro Gaming for 150$ (10k rub) and sold my old i7-6700k + old mb + ddr3 ram for 180$.
Love your work man keep up the awesome videos !
ALways learning something when watching your vidz, ty!
LMAO I'm pretty sure that the "nuclear display" means 核显, that is, the integrated graphics in CPU.
lmao right
:D
@@der8auer-en integrated = with in the core = 核 = nucleus = nuclear
@@youtubeisgarbage900 maybe ➡️ instead of = i think, just want to explain where neuclear came from
@@mx8161 核 can also mean core, so basically core display, which is the chinese way of saying integrated graphics
Thanks for information.. so much information i get before i decide to buy one
The other consideration is whether or not your motherboard will accept an ES CPU. Sometimes ES CPUs will be completely blocked in the BIOS.
Exactly!
Hello Robert, I really much appreciate your contribution into Overclock community. You become my favourite Channel since Skylake Non K Overclock. Just curios, do you see chance to apply on this ES cpu BCLK (Non K) Overclock?
They used Google translate to translate iGPU from Chinese, which is "核显“，which means "core graphics" or literally "nuclear display"
The reason to care about the first slot being PCIe gen 5 or not is IF you have an add-on card for 8 M.2 gen 4 M.2 things running at PCie x4 . To run it all at full speed you need 1 gen 5 x16 electrical slot. They mostly are still custom order boards right now and dual sided so you might also get heat from the CPU onto the M.2 storage too and the heat from M.2 Storage onto the CPU. Without yet another custom part to prevent this.
Must be a good CPU for the 6500 XT from AMD, considering that x4 PCIe interface 😂😂😂
Thanks for the video appreciate it
I think the 1st PCIe slot doesn't work, because it's the slot connected directly to the CPU. I believe the only slots that will work with these CPUs are the ones connected through the chipset.
I have this ES chip as well as the QS chip. Haven't put them on a retail board though, still on the Intel dev board. As for PCI-E Slot 1, I think on the dev boards it's a special slot which needs to be properly initialized. I believe the choices were hybrid, low power gpu, and high power gpu. Since retail boards don't have this unique selector, then I think the slot just doesn't work.
Some MSI Z690 motherboards had problems with AMD GPUs until a BIOS update in late February of this year if memory serves me on the date. Putting a GPU in a slot other than the first one would work as long as it was PCIe gen 3 or lower.
This could be nice for productivity with a 2nd hand gt 710 or gt 730 in the secondary slot. Pretty low power too you could probably use a h610 ddr4 board.
G'day Roman,
While these would be great for CPU Core/Thread Heavy Loads that only require a GPU for Screen Connection...
I think I would be more inclined to buy an i5-12600K with the full connectivity if you are going to be using it mainly with a GPU like Gaming,
Ps In videos like this where you are testing PCIe Bandwidth I'd be interested to see how Cuda Acceleration for Rendering or similar tasks is affected, does it get Bottlenecked like Gaming or can the PCIe provide enough Bandwidth.
Z690 Strix F owner here with a 12900K purchased at launch. I cannot get the GSkill 6000 CL36 kit stable on the latest bios. 1300 bios version is only stable if I ramp up the memory controller to 1.36V, system agent voltage to 1.35V and ram at 1.4V
Dafuq? That's bad. I can do 6400 CL32-39-… (G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB 32GB silver) on a 12700F while BCLK-OCing (5.1 GHz P-cores, 4.03 GHz E-cores @1.27 V loaded, a bit more idle).
And the non-k SKU's are locked to ~0.92V VcSA and I'm probably not even using that. Sounds like a CPU problem though because I'm using an ASUS B660-G which shouldn't be better than a Z690 for RAM OC.
@@whohan779 I have some experience with that. It really depends on the IMC stability and I had severe issues trying to run 3600mhz on 2x16GB DDR4 3600 kits that are *single rank not dual rank*
Newer bioses fixed that issue but it still took a long time and a lot of head scratching as 2 other 12700Fs didnt do the same but in the end still wound up being unstable
How many dimms tho? 4 dimms is often quite difficult
@@der8auer-en 2 Dimms. Google it and many people are having this issue
Very informative video. Now i9 12900es on TaoBao is only 100 bucks which is great compare to the retail one (somewhere 350-400$) in my region
if i have option between that one or the i5 12400f which one would be better and all es vers are the same or they could have different performance ?
the nuclear bit just got you put on the 5 eyes watchlist lol
Well, I dont see intel sending a recovery team to your house/buisness to get said CPU back either, unless maybe it was a next gen prototype or something really special/
I was wondering from that description if they meant the first PCIe slot was disabled. Probably Google Translate doing a bad job, lol.
I have a few servers with Xeon Engineering and Quality samples, they're often so cheap you can get a dozen for the price of anything new [although there aren't really engineering sample boards, so the boards may be really expensive if it's an older platform like X79]
Shouldn't you be able to get X8 out of that second slot or is it split with the M2 nvme on that motherboard ?
The ES CPUs have their PCIE lanes disabled hence the first PCIE slot will not work as this slot uses PCIE to direct link the CPU/GPU communication. All other slots PCIE slot are typically PCH driven (not via PCIE lanes). Meaning they're going through of the motherboards chip, adding another stop in the communication between CPU/GPU. This communication route is slower than obv the direct link resulting in significant drops in GPU performance.
are all these ES samples like this? Im seeing several different code names. Is there a better way to run the GPU than what he did in this video (to make it faster)?
How do we know if PCIe 5.0 even works in the released version of this CPU? How does Intel know?
The gpu issue is likely a bios issue, to do with shared resource lanes. You would have to look at what resources are shared on those lanes in the manual. It could also be the ES is set to ignore the first set of lanes for security reasons.
Given it's multiple cards that aren't working. It's an on CPU block for those lanes.
Early ES are really not worth it IMO if you actually want to use it and not keep it as a collectors piece, especially at that price.
They often come with a lot of subtle issues, like the pcie issue on that one, voltage anomalies, weird boost behaviours, etc but just motherboard compatibility can be a huge issue.
Unless you can guarantee the cpu is a late ES/QS its not worth paying almost retail CPU prices.
It’s stolen property as well. Not worth it
in first slot pcie lanes comes directly from cpu so may be this ES chip does not have those pcie lanes
So with this cpu my vga simply would never work on my z690m itx/ax (since there is a single pcie 16x slot on my board and it is connected to the cpu). Is it right guys?
Why is the 12900k base clock at 3.2ghz and the 12900f at 2.4ghz?
Also, why is the e-core base clock 2.4ghz vs 1.8ghz?
Are the core parts different or are you using a different type of core?
as the chinese testers says, the first pcie slot seems to be completely disabled on hardware layer by intel…
Definitely not a good choice for gaming. A 12600K is a better choice, without any of the limitations and weird behavior.
Nope. I tested this against a 12600k overclocked, got 6-8 percent faster on the ES.
I think it should compare i7-12700
there are plenty of 7600 ES for sale on taobao as well. theres a review by a russian youtuber that managed to get his hands on one of those and the only difference he could notice was a base clock cap at 4.1 or 4.4. selling for 120EUR btw
I know this is an apple and oranges comparison, but my i7-3770K doesn't have a good memory controller at all. If you set a frequency past stock you need to clear CMOS. Which is kind of unfortunate.
Buying ES/QS are never worth it. Too many shady sellers, no warranty and often no returns allowed, typically gimped performance or weird requirements to use it, and resell value is poor. Der8auer has more experience than basically all of us, and spent hours trying to tinker with this ES to get it to retail settings and never did. If you cant afford a 12900k and are looking for a cheaper option, just get the 12700k or 12700F ($310), both will work as expected without issues out of the box, full 3 year warranty, full support, full performance, all PCIe slots will work as intended.
yeah 100% agree with you, 12900k is an enthusiast chip and is far from being good value to begin with. Although there are few good ES/QS models which can be even better than their retail versions, for example few xeons which has unlocked BCLK or multi values, but getting those mainstream ES/QS parts? nah
@@h1tzzYT Not 'never', but not within the last year(s). "i7 6400t" was decent as it could BCLK-OC and still show core temps, which no retail samples could. I myself had an QH8F which was low-bin early stepping, terrible ram speeds, so I ran DDR3 ~2340 MHz and got 'lucky' with ~3.85 GHz @1.54V [low amps though - so
Hey der8bauer! Thank you for the great content. This comment is not relevant to this video, its just a general request. If possible, could you test whether an M.2 temperature is different if installed on the top slot, right below the CPU, compared to being installed to the bottom slot, next to the chipset, while gaming? I was wondering whether the hot air coming from the GPU would affect the M.2 temperature.
I can tell you that's a yes. The drive I have right under my GPU is 7 degrees higher, and the GPU is just a 1660. I have 2 of the same drive and the one below the GPU is hotter.
@@xuyukun123 thank you! So i guess a higher-end gpu will make the m.2 a lot hotter.
@@spacecy I guess but I don't remember my temperature from when I used a 3080, perhaps I can update you when I get my 3080 back from RMA and I rmemeber this thread xd
@@xuyukun123 that would be awesome, thank you :)
Maybe the first pcie lane is bad.
You should get a gpu whit lane rollover(x16 is the x1, x8 is the x4, x6 is the x6., reversed).
Just for testing.
Bro can I use it for professional like gaming and productivity
I looked at 12th gen ES and decided no. The fastest might be to connect GPU to the m.2 4.0 PCIe from CPU (not motherboard). 12600k is only $250 USD on the local markets.
Fascinating.
Btw, did he say “60 hundred” instead of “6 thousand”? Makes sense considering “58 hundred” was the next speed he said (-8
What's interesting is Cpu-z also reports it as a revision B0,Should it not report as an ES?
Olá amigo uma pergunta tem como vc mim ajuda tenho um CPU igual uma placa mãe z690 Asus prime wi fi ddr4 ficaria perfeito com CPU usado o slot PCI segundo ou tecero???? Um 3.0 x16 outro 4. X16 ??????
Many boards have a second x8 slot, that'll reduce the bandwidth penalty
You've had that Master for a while, Gigabyte letting you keep it?
I just ordered one of these CPUs from eBay for $190 usd shipped they mentioned the pcie slot issue my asus prime d4 wifi board has a 16x 5.0 slot and a 16x 4.0 slot
but so is it a limited cpu on the pcie?
i thought lga 1700 could only do dual channel ram but at 11:33 cpu-z shows quad channel ram config
"Something's always illegal somewhere. . . "
I believe the 13900 ES should work substantially better than this despite not being the K series ES chip, it clocks to 5.1GHz in single threaded workloads and apparently achieves almost exactly what the actual 13900 does at $300. Also, the first PCIe slots do not have issues with these chips.
So if I use it on an ITX board, I won't be able to use a GPU as it has only 1st/only GPU slot. is it?
Correct.
I assume the integrated Gpu does not work?
Roman, would it be possible to have a video showcasing your Tattoo's and what you plan to add? I'm a massive Stargate fan and really would love to see what you have going on there. :-D
but they ES doesnt always have same stepping and the retail and may not even be compatible to your mobo
nuclear likely refers to the core. it is a bad translation thing.
that said, GPU transient peak power draw can easily surpass the power density of nuclear pile, so there is that too...
I like the german sense of humor :)
can you try it with DDR4 and a different board and see if that opens up the top GPU slot?
nah the first pcie is fused off from factory u cant enable it
First cat I ever saw who was into computers.
hmmm, looking like that chip have internal connections not use or remove by Intel, might even be the base microcode (to old)
4:30
Same in the UK
If you buy stolen property you do not own it
You always hear about teenagers unknowingly buying stolen cars just for the police to turn up in a couple weeks time to seize it without giving them anything
Why didn't you use the waifu editions of crystal disk mark?
What about an 11900 ES QVYE? I saw a seller offering it for $200. Is it a good cpu?
Ring and cache are at 1.2ghz so memory performance is bad. Would go for the 10900k es
So, the x16 lane from the CPU is dead or inactive?
The sample design inside the CPU prevents it from accessing that lane; essentially soldered off from usage.
This might be good for me then, i just bought myself the z690-i from asus for 260 Euro and this might be good, getting a chpea 12900k ES
Probably not. You'll only have one PCIe slot (because ITX) and it will be wired directly to the PCIe lanes off the CPU. Which are disabled. Unless you don't plan on using that slot, go for a 12700K for about the same price as the ES.
My 7 cats raise their paws in solidarity with their continental cousins, what a beautiful creature the white one is.
07:55 4800 mega transfers, can someone tell me how it went from 2400 to 4800 ?
DDR stands for Double Data Rate. MHz does not equal Data Rate.
That's interesting that if its not legally released, it's not legal to own im Deustchland. Here in the US, if you can sell it, then you can buy it.
Engineering Sample, Lanes are missing in the CPU for PICe-0 lane
fun stuff
They probably meant only 2nd x8 lanes works?!
No cpu x16 lanes. But cpu is wired for chipset lanes ? .why 2nd and 3rd slot will work im guessing
Chipset has its own set of lanes (DMI) which are kind of vital for system operation. Chipset uses a bit of the bandwidth for things like sound, lan, sata etc. Rest of its bandwidth is allocated to things like chipset-connected M.2 and PCIe slots. That explains why PCIe slots connected to chipset are working fine, while CPU-connected PCIe slot is inactive.
6:50 unintentional robot face
Thx for this and saving my money
I’d just save the bucks and get a 12400f instead
Don't care about the legality but the performance drop and bugs make it not worth it as you can just buy the 12700k for the same price and that's what I would do.
0:54 If gaining a fluffy cat is what will happen, I'm going to order some of these CPUs.
Most sellers will tell you that you can't use the first PCI-E slot.
We finally found the cpu to match perfectly with the 6500xt
Would have been cool to see it in a DDR4 board.
Would be interesting as a chip where you need only the CPU not the GPU
11:30 Quad Channel Memory?? I thought Z690 was Dual Channel?
DDR5 have 2 channels per module. 2 modules X 2 slots = 4
Good deal Jimmy
Considering the 5800x3d smokes the 12900ks for half the power AND price AND you dont need a new MB makes me think you can buy any intel cpu for sub 300
Nuclear display. That made my day.
probably why the seller set the price to be very low. because of the limitations. if there is no such limitations. then i'm sure the seller will try to price it closer to normal price.
Vielleicht sollte man einfach ein Board verwwenden, das am zweiten PCIe Slot noch acht Lanes bereitstellt. Damit sollte selbst eine RTX 4090 annähernd die maximale Leistung erreichen.
LOL! Just recieve myES 12900k today QXJE. And will it test today.
Oh so overclockers got free CPU's? I remember scouring ebay etc for Barton mobiles in the running for the single core 3ghz leaderboard and I murdered plenty of them Barton's and a few DFi Lanparty mobos, OCZ ram and a couple XFX 9800GTX's til one day I got a 3.1ghz stable from a 1700M which lasted a week before popping everything, I even had my AOUK entry marked on some website forum coming in about 2/3rds high but one chap he managed with cryo to get almost 4ghz out of a heavily doctored motherboard.
To be noted, most, if not all, legal aspect are the same for the entirety of the EUROzone, the only difference will be on the VAT amount.
Looks at my CPU, Intel Confidential. I had no idea. So that's what it meant.
do you have Twitter account?
You're audacious to even put that into that motherboard. But then we wouldn't be able to see such experiments. kudos!
Technically all CPUs have atom nucleuses so all are nuclear.
Imma do this😈
I can see this being used for a streaming rig x264 encoding where you really only care about CPU performance.
Great idea actually. 8x5ghz for streaming + 8x4ghz efficient cores for handling other tasks is a steal at that price.
why not use gpu encoding instead of x264 on a cpu?
@@h1tzzYT Why not indeed, NVENC for example is great and easy to setup for a single PC setup, but if you're someone that wants max quality then x264 still has the edge over NVENC for example when it comes down to pushing lower cpu presets.
@@wildgg but thats like ultra niche market, imo 95% of people would be better off with nvenc
and if you are that serious about streaming you better off buying proper cpu
lol it has a neclear display you knew if you use the 1st pcie slot your video card go's neclear haha. i tested a few of these there less power then i5 some was closer to a i3 and the cut out pcie lanes
nuclear came from auto-translate from Chinese, because kernel, nucleus and core somewhat similar words
Most of these warnings have to do with Chineseum motherboards not the Aorus you have in front of you. Chinese motherboardeum are made differently