Bible Prophecy # 23 The Fatal Flaw of Popular Christian Prophecy Belief
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- In this video I offer a historical evaluation of an interview Pastor John Hagee recently did on TBN offering an overview of his general prophetic interpretation of the "End Times," and what he sees as lying ahead. He presents a fairly standard "Dispensationalist" view of things, and I present my own evaluation of the texts references as well as other that are relevant--questioning the validity of his interpretations on historical grounds.
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If there is something to be grateful today is that we have people like Dr. Tabor to enlighten us with their knowledge and wisdom.
It's not CE. It's AD.
@@uncatila what are you even talking about?
@@uncatilaJesus was born in 3 BC, not 1 "AD". Thus, "AD" should be wholly rejected.
does he have the doctrine of God Is Savior? Is He Saying God Is Savior Is Coming In The Flesh? Does He Teach You What The Father Teaches Him What To Do And What To Say, Is The Gospel Preached To The Poor, ... How broad the philactories! simple feed my sheep the instruction to the rock on that he builds His Church, And Learned of Our Father Layer Upon Layer, A Little here and a little there... key, to soil, feed the seed that is The Word Of God... Those Are With The Children Of Israel, And Shared More Openly In The Corners Set In The Gospel From The Beginning... The Stone That Was Rejected, The Same Is Made The Head Of The Corner
increase the corners in your field
Thanks so much Dr Tabor. I was raised in an evangelical home and church. I still believe in God but not in the way I was taught. Religion forces you to abandon logical deduction, critical thinking and reasoning. Thank you for your truth, honesty and scholarly approach to these topics. I have learned so much and I’m constantly challenging and recalibrating my belief system based on facts and evidence while still maintaining my proper faith perspectives and values
Recalibration is a good way to think of it. Deconstruction, reasoning and readjustment makes it easier to escape the grasp of minds that is blind belief.
When I comprehended Romans 1:3-4 for what it ACTUALLY says, it started me on my journey OUT of "Roman" based theology and down a long road to truth not found in the churches. Then I discovered the virgin birth deception and that the virgin daughter of Zion is not a woman named Mary. This caused me to finally understand the true meaning hidden within the NT and its nothing like I learned from church for 55 years. Just grateful that God opened my blinded in-part eyes. Never would I have believed that I was one of the those blinded to truth that we were told about by the prophets and the NT.
You have a curious perspective. I was brought up in a completely secular family, both parents university educated. My own studies took me in the direction of philosophy/religion. It was logical deduction, critical thinking, and reasoning that led me to faith in Christ.
@@mchristr As it should…thanks for sharing
@BillyYonaire Not really, no.
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*Miracles and Apotheosis in the Ancient Mediterranean World*
*"It should first be noted that miracle stories are not uncommon in the literature of this period.* Ancient people believed in a world permeated by the supernatural and readily accepted stories of miracles and believed in stories of visions and visitors from the world of the divine all the time. *Even very sober and sometimes sceptical historians like Tacitus will pass on accounts of miracles that he clearly accepts and expects his audience to believe as historical.*
So when we read stories of how the emperor Augustus was *miraculously conceived by the god Apollo,* or how his birth was *presaged by a new star in the heavens,* or how Julius Caesar was seen *ascending into the heaven* after his death or how Vespasian *healed lame and blind people* who asked him for a miracle, we accept that these stories represent the kinds of things ancient people genuinely believed about great men. Or we accept that they are at least told to indicate that the man in question was great. *What we don't do is accept that simply because people believed these stories they must mean that they really happened.*
And this is even when the stories are presented to us by a very careful historian and given to us as verified fact. Take Tacitus' account of the miracles of the emperor Vespasian:
"In the months during which Vespasian was waiting at Alexandria for the periodical return of the summer gales and settled weather at sea, many wonders occurred which seemed to point him out as the object of the favour of heaven and of the partiality of the Gods. One of the common people of Alexandria, well known for his blindness, threw himself at the Emperor's knees, and implored him with groans to heal his infirmity. This he did by the advice of the God Serapis, whom this nation, devoted as it is to many superstitions, worships more than any other divinity. .... And so Vespasian, supposing that all things were possible to his good fortune, and that nothing was any longer past belief, with a joyful countenance, amid the intense expectation of the multitude of bystanders, accomplished what was required. *The hand was instantly restored to its use, and the light of day again shone upon the blind. Persons actually present attest both facts, even now when nothing is to be gained by falsehood."* (Histories, IV, 81)
Tacitus was closely connected to the court of Vespasian's sons and successors, Titus and Domitian, and so in a position to know the "persons actually present" and to consult them long after Vespasian's death "when nothing is to be gained by falsehood". He was also a very careful historian who scorned those who took rumour and stories as fact without checking them against sources and eye witnesses and who condemned those who "catch eagerly at wild and improbable rumours in preference to genuine history" (Annals, IV,11).
*Despite this, I don't know anyone who would read the account above and conclude that the emperor really had magical healing powers and genuinely used his supernatural abilities to heal people.* The fact that even a judicious and often sceptical analyst like Tacitus accepted this story shows us just how readily people in the ancient world accepted claims of the miraculous.
*One form of miracle that was widely believed in was the idea of apotheosis, where a great man is physically taken up in to the heavens and raised to divine status.* It was claimed that Romulus, the founder of Rome, underwent this process and *later appeared to his friend Julius Proculus to declare his new celestial status.* The same claim was made about Julius Caesar and Augustus, *with supposed witnesses observing their ascent into the heavenly realm.* Lucian's satire The Passing of Peregrinus includes his scorn for the claim that the philosopher was *taken up into the celestial realm and was later seen walking around on earth after his death.* The Chariton novel Callirhoe has its hero Chaereas visiting the tomb of his recently dead wife, saying he *"arrived at the tomb at daybreak"* where he *"found the stones removed and the entrance open. At that he took fright."* Others are afraid to enter the tomb, but Chaereas goes in and finds his wife's *body missing* and concludes she has been *taken up by the gods."*
If you want to read how the resurrection legend grew over time, read the below article by Tim O'Neill who is a former Christian and has been studying the scholarship for over 25 years.
*Answer*
What-evidence-is-there-for-Jesus-Christs-death-burial-and-resurrection/answer/Tim-ONeill-1 - Quora
You can also read the below article by a former Christian apologist on how he agrees with the mainstream scholarship that Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet.
*"ex-apologist: On One of the Main Reasons Why I Think Christianity is False (Reposted)"*
Also, how cognitive dissonance possibly explains early Christianity.
*“The Rationalization Hypothesis: Is a Vision of Jesus Necessary for the Rise of the Resurrection Belief?”* - by Kris Komarnitsky | Κέλσος - Wordpress
*"How do we know that the biblical writers were* ***not*** *writing history? -- by Dr Steven DiMattei"*
*"How Did The Gospel Writers Know? - The Doston Jones Blog"*
*"Yes, the Four Gospels Were Originally Anonymous: Part 1 - The Doston Jones Blog"*
*"Are Stories in the Bible Influenced by Popular Greco-Roman Literature? - The Doston Jones Blog"*
*"Gospels Not Written By Matthew, Mark, Luke or John - The Church Of Truth"*
*"February 2015 - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"* - Isaiah 53
*"Jesus and the Messianic Prophecies - Did the Old Testament Point to Jesus? - The Bart Ehrman Blog"*
*"Did Jesus Fulfill Prophecy? | Westar Institute"*
*"Jesus Was Not the Only “Prophet” to Predict the Destruction of the Temple - Escaping Christian Fundamentalism"*
*"What Do the Apostles’ Deaths Prove? Guest Post by Kyle Smith. - The Bart Ehrman Blog"*
I wish Jesus would rapture all these “prophets” who have gotten it wrong for 2000 years, but will continue to make millions exploiting their followers.
"There is nothing new under the sun"
History could repeat itself over and over with all these signs for all generations.
Seems thats whats occurring and these texts are the playbook.
Hagee is one of the worst prophecy/Bible teachers out there.
I sincerely admire your patience in attempting to deconstruct Hagee's collective insanity. Happy Thanksgiving!
Why I feel nauseous when I hear Hagee?
Thank you for this great information 🙏🙏. I’m soooo tired of hearing about the rapture 🙄🙄. It’s everywhere!! The rapture wasn’t even a belief of the church until the mid 1800s.
Dr. Tabor, thank you for this series. It has certainly helped clear up a lot of "muddy water" (that pool between my ears). A most Happy Thanksgiving, which would be enhanced by peace coming to Israel and Gaza.
I was discussing the rapture with a pre-tribulation believer recently & I pointed out in Matthew 24:29-31 & Mark chapter 13 that it's immediately immediately immediately
Immediately after the days of tribulation that Yeshua returns in the clouds of glory for His elect. And he says the "Elect" is not the Church but the Jews. Thats not what Paul says!!!
I remember John Hagee was spewing that the end times were happening any minute 20 years ago.
Hagee's point...Behold, now is the accepted time! Behold, now is the day of salvation! He is coming as a thief in the night...why.... to take what is valuable! That's a noble warning call for salvation so don't miss it before your vapor of a life expires or we are raptured!
Think about this...if you dismiss the rapture and you end up being wrong about the rapture, and your heart is still hard, don't say that Hagee didn't warn you.
As an observant Jew, I really appreciate your profound scholarship in the teachings. May HaShem continue to bless all your handiwork. I wish that the church would have embraced Torah. Maybe they will awaken to the Truth of Torah. God changes not. Beezrat HaShem.
See my comments if they appear in first line. As a pure Christian, Torah is the source of any Christian prophecies, that Jesus was as Jew from David, able to read in The Temple. We are All in the Same Mission in God Is. Tradition is not my Way but Wisdom is my Way, I Wishes Humanity to live Together, and to understand what Wise ancient tried to gives to Help Us to find God Kingdom in the more smooth Way. Those dividing Humanity are false prophets.
Yeshua was a Torah-teaching Torah-observant "Rabbi".
@@michaelsmith9453 correct, yet Paul and the Roman Church have taken, so many off the true path. I have heard it said by Rabbi’s that roses are red violets are blue if it weren’t for Paul most of the world would be Jews, and May it be soon and in our day Beezrat HaShem.
@@Eliezer1018Funnily enough, the Ebionites believed that the reason the Jews rejected Yeshua as Messiah was squarely because of Paul. How ironic.
No it was because of Ha Shems’ plan to evangelise the whole world! He divides and then brings back together - a bit like the parting of the Red Sea.
Thank you again, Dr. Tabor, and Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
Christian doctrine, so to speak is one of prudential behavior in the midst of the passions of society. Many people define themselves as "evangelical", all over the world. In my country, most of people do not know what the "political" Israel is. Despite the efforts of evangelicals, Catholics, politicians, scientists, the fate of the tribes is not decided by beliefs of people, but by Judgement. This is when Christian doctrine becomes the map in the midst of the storm.
The situation of religious people is that they want to reach the goal, while sitting on the same spot, therefore it is natural that when storm arrives, they are shattered heavily, if not disintegrated. Political Israel insists in the same mistake as religious people, but without being religious themselves; they have not understood the dynamics of being Israel, and they have relied on being a nation called Israel while sitting on the same old spot of inertia.
My mother taught me that if I didn't like the way someone treated me, I shouldn't do it to anyone else. The oppressed have become oppressors.
May God bless and keep both sides safe and bring them peace.
They want change and fulfilment, but also want to live in the past.
These Evangelicals are a breed all their own! Having attended one of these churches myself and looking back, these pastors speak with such commanding authority that it’s easy to see how many Christians get sucked into their “theology.”
Thank you Dr. Tabor for your scholarship and wisdom.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone 🦃
oh man !! The LAST Days ..... again
They should change it to, "The next-to, next-to, next-to, Last Days - deferred until further notice."
I even remember as a child when my father took me to see the movie version of The Late Great Planet earth. I remember feeling an ominous sense of foreboding and being frightened.
I also read the book version as well as the sequel called 1980s: Countdown to Armageddon, or something like that.
I also remember the craze in the 1990s over the Left Behind fictional book series. That was madness. There were large stacks of those books at the front of many book stores. I thought those books were very stupid but I had friends and relatives telling me how great they were and urging me to read them.
One left and one taken sounds more like capturing people at random to punish a community, something the Romans did “as needed” to subdue a community. Being taken isn’t a good thing - you want to be left behind.
Thank you!! I have to say that ive been really enjoying your lectures/videos.
I gotta tell ya, i was at bible study one time years ago, and i kinda got into a back and forth with my pastor about the tribulation. He said, "Well, tracy, if you think you're gonna go through it, build a bomb shelter!!🤣🤣🤣 i had people sneaking up to me afterward saying, "You know, ive kinda thought that myself".
I just feel it. I've not been to church in a long time. And only recently started bible studies again. I prayed for new insight and actually kinda whined to God that im not a new believer, so i dont like this infant food. I need indepth!!! I want to learn!! And here i am😁🙋🏼♀️. Thank you.
no! This is faith destroying not faith building! put aside your spiritual hubris and return to the WORD of God.
Appreciate your channel & all your efforts in helping us understand the sacred text, it's so important. Thank you 👌
Apokalypsis and parousia are used to denote the same referents in contemporary extra biblical texts. There is no basis for such futurist, literalist expectations.
People also use the saying "comes like a thief in the night" to back up that secret rapture. But what it means is after the man of lawlessness and the tribulation we know not what day it will occur.
Hagee doesn't just muddy the water, he unleashes explosive dysentery diarrhea into the water
Thank you for this presentation. My understanding of those prophesies is pretty spot on with what you presented. There is a plain reading of these that needs no mind bending interpretations. They basically explain themselves clearly.
Thank you for distilling this information for me. I have been working on my understanding of eschatology seriously for about 3 years now and what I understand from my own studies lines up nicely with what you present. I try to present this perspective in Bible studies and with fellow believers and I am met with either a blank stare, because most people do not understand what or why they believe what they do or a dogmatic dispensational/futurist theology that cannot even think their is another way to interpret these texts.
May God bless you and keep you healthy so we may continue to be blessed through you.
S7
I frequently listen to Dr. Chuck Baldwin and he has presented that most of these prophecies were fulfilled with the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD and that with it, Christ's kingdom has already come, fulfilled in the church. He presents that John was writing in gematria to describe Nero's name as '666'. John was in prison on Patmos and would have had his letters reviewed before being sent out, so he had to write in 'secret code.'
I check in with Hagee to get a chuckle from time to time…
Thank you for making the truth come to light. In recent years l have been attending a church off and on but l really have a hard time with what l am hearing there. l really am far more interested in the truth than the ranting of ministers who do not seem to have a real knowledge of what the scriptures actually say. Love your work.💖
John Hagee??? OMG! It would be best if I keep silent here.😉
John Hagee just needs to go away.
As much as I agree, it wouldn't help much because his followers would just find another fool to blindly follow.
Pun intended
Soon enough
now i wish the rapture was real, please god take those fools up with u. 🎉
Round Man is a hoot and certainly not a scholar by any stretch of the imagination. Jesus or Yeshua fulfilled zero expectations of a mashiach who as a godman died as a blood sacrifice and will have to come in a second coming because he failed to accomplish anything that the true mashiach (a human being as a direct descendant of King David)will do with his arrival.
Josephus and Tacitus said that what most motivated the Jews to rebel against Rome was the expectation that, about this time, a Jewish Messiah would rule the world. And John's Apocalypse held that expectation, as did Paul (1Cor 15:25), as did John the Baptist, and as did, in all likelihood, Jesus. The Dead Sea Scroll Sect believed the same. But a consequence of this madness was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.
Another take is not a 490 period but instead its 120 49 year periods. Not sure if you seen that one yet. It has no gaps.
As I read the bible, as a whole unified book [no ot vs nt], the promise of God gathering His people goes back to the terms of the covenant stated in Deuteronomy, and is contingent upon God's covenant community obeying the His instructions in Deuteronomy with their whole hearts. I suspect the trib period is a time of refining to get His people to turn back to covenant stipulations.
The biggest problem is, in reading Thess is swapping the term "son of perdition" with "Antichrist". 😮
The word antichrist is only in 4 verses, and it says nothing about antichrist being some world leader, or ruler.
... Even in this video Hagee swapped these words. 👎
Yeah only John really speaks of the "antichrist" and according to John, antichrist is someone who didn't/doesn't believe that Jesus actually came in the flesh. If you look at the Greek of Paul's writings, you'll clearly discern that Paul never believed nor taught that Jesus actually did come in the flesh. Only that he "appeared" to be.
Dear Dr. Tabor, thank you so much for your video series on bible prophecy, it is accessible, interesting, and illuminating. I hope that at some point in the future that you will write a book that contains this information, it would be an incredibly valuable resource. Kind regards, Jeff
In Micah 7:11 It states that when the walls are to be built, the decree ( to rebuild them) shall be far removed. So the decree was long before the walls are actually rebuilt.
I am listening to this very important lesson, thank you Dr Tabor.
There are many “tares” within the body of Christ to deceive the saints in my humble opinion. My spirit struggles to watch him without cringing. I know people who are thinking they’re going to escape and am always perplexed by that thinking. Bless your attention to detail Dr Tabor, sure helps.
Omgish, Finally, i just started watching your video and im like 4 min in and yessss.
I have a feeling, the people Revelation is speaking of that curse God, are the ones who believe in a pretrib rapture.
Pastor John Hagee employs the rhetorical voice which is not falsifiable.
Amen. It says he is resurrecting them from the grave. Not bring them from heaven.
I do hate how these old preachers are swollen from over eating
fatness is a paragon of selfishness
Fool
knife is sharp, eh@@andrewharchar891
When the last star in our universe burns out there will be two things that survive, belly fat and stupidity. So Hagee may still have a chance.
clearly belly fat will be a thing of the ancient past when the last star dies out, but i get your vibe. Get that dude a rice cake and some sturdy joggers! @@williambarco7144
Hi, again James - I don't normally post a second comment at the same YT channel but you mention that you'll be covering the Preterist View in your next analysis of biblical prophecy.
The Preterists actually had a very good Archive website at one point but I dunno IF that still exists - Where they did indeed propose that all OT prophecy and even the Olivet prophecy had been fulfilled - and they showed that Armies were seen clashing over Jerusalem by Titus and the Preterists also cites the Jewish Historian Josephus saying that those armies were seen above Jerusalem and that strange happenings were reported occuring within the Second Temple also.
Why I stopped looking at the Preterist archival website that did indeed have excellent alternative views that were clearly in opposition to the Futurist's stance on Biblical prophecy - Which tends to lump all biblical prophecy of the New Testament together - by projecting ALL of it into our future - is because the Preterists also held the mistaken view that Zechariah 14:3-5's splitting of the mount of Olives - was accomplished by a Roman road that intersected the mount of Olives and thus supposedly fulfilled that Prophecy in the 1st century. A conclusion that I don't agree with because Zechariah 14:4-5 can't be dismissed as being just a Roman road and NOT being a Literal splitting of the Mount of Olives Which Zechariah sees as creating a Vast valley in between the Two halves for the survivors of the Zechariah 12:1-3 siege of Modern day Jerusalem and capture of 2/3s of the holy lands [Zechariah 13:8-9] and 1/2 of modern day Jerusalem [Zechariah 14:2] by all the Modern Worlds' [Gentile] armies - to FLEE TO.
Zechariah 14:5 is showing the time of the Resurrection of the saints:
"And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
and THE LORD MY GOD SHALL COME, and all the saints with thee.
However, If you make wrong assumptions - you inevitably get wrong conclusions.
The book of Revelation shows the exact Timing of Zechariah's LORD GOD's coming and bringing saints with Him - at the 'same hour' the two witnesses/prophets of Revelation 11:3-13 are resurrected and Revelation 13-15 & 18 show this to be When a Massive Earthquake destroys 1/10 of modern day Jerusalem:
"And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." [Revelation 11:13]
Revelation 11:14 doesn't look like what we'd normally associate as being 'a timeframe' - but it is one nevertheless - because it puts Revelation's prophecies into their time sequences as to when Revelation's prophetic events unfold in our modern age - as opposed to when other Earlier chapters of Revelation were fulfilled in Apostolic times - BEFORE the End of the Old Covenant in 70AD.
Zechariah 11:10-13 shows that the 'Old Covenant' was Ended at Jesus' Trial because Zechariah's Lord God was telling Zechariah that He - God - was going to be valued at 30 pieces of Silver - Which was Fulfilled as Matthew Records in Matthew 26:15 & 27:3-10 by Jesus' Betrayal for exactly 30 pieces of silver by Judas Iscariot - levin no doubt whatsoever that Zechariah's Lord God WAS Jesus. Jesus Even told the Jews He Existed BEFORE Abraham according to Jesus' apostle John. [John 8:12-18]
Clearly, Jesus never numbered His comings and goings on Earth as 1st & 2nd - because that is a notion that is applied to Jesus' 1st public appearance in the 1st century apostolic times but all Jesus said was that He would come again - as far as I can see and it's not necessarily a 'second time' but what I simply call 'a final time' because nowhere does it say in any texts of Old or New Testaments that Jesus was going Back to Heaven once he descends to the Mount of Olives in Zechariah 14:4-5 and, in actuality, the apostle Paul went to great lengths in the book of Hebrews to Show that Jesus was King and High priest of Salem or Melchizedek and that Jesus'/Melchizedek's Priesthood was not of the Levitical priestly line - so HE could offer Himself as the Ultimate sacrificial lamb - because He was in fact, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob [Exodus 3:13-15] that Jesus Himself claimed to Be - When He plainly said so as the apostle John records in John 8:12-58 because the Jews Knew exactly WHO He was claiming to BE and wanted to stone Him for speaking Blasphemy in claiming to be GOD - in verse 59 but Jesus eluded them.
Ok, I dunno if you are going to cover the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse which most Christians assume begin their Rides in our modern age and I dunno how the Preterist viewed Revelation in trying to show all biblical prophecy had already been fulfilled in the 1st century But IF you look at the Olivet prophecy, logically, The Four horsemen of Revelation actually Began their rides from 70 AD onwards - down through the Centuries until even our modern age, I.e. False religion [ 1st 'white' horsemen ] Wars [ 2nd 'red' Horseman] Plagues and famines [3rd 'black' horseman] Death [4th 'Pale' Horseman] all pretty much as foretold by Jesus in the Olivet prophecy:
"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows." [Matthew 24:5-8]
Everything beyond Verse 9 through to 26 occurred in the 1st century and Jesus said His final coming would be Known from the direction He would come from - like Lightning:
"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Ezekiel 42:1-7 shows exactly the same thing about the 'Glory of God' Coming from the East and lighting up the Holy land [ like lightning does indeed tend to do] as He travels to the Place His throne ON Earth will be located:
"And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory."
"And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places." [Ezekiel 43:7]
There is NO WAY that all these Prophecies [below] were EVER fulfilled in the 1st Century AD as the Preterists apparently believed all prophecy was. 🙃
Isaiah 2:1-4, Isaiah 11:10-16, 29:6-8, 30:25-26, Micah 4:1-3 & 7-8, Joel 3:1-2 & 9-21,Ezekiel 43:1-7 & 71:1-12, Zechariah 9:1& 9-16, 12:1-9, 13:8-9, 14:1-18, Revelation 11:3-18, 14:1,16:1-21, 19:11-21]
That was a good read, thank you!
Thank you for this. You first had me reading the Dead Sea Scrolls and Josephus, now I'm listening to John Hagee sermons to better understand his brand of prophecy, apocolypticism, and eschatology. Would love if you did more commentary on modern prophecy because I can't get away from it from friends and family who embrace it and tell me all about Gog and Magog and how I should read Ezekiel 38 to better understand our current times. I tend to view the modern prophetic movement essentially as saying that anything that didn't come to fulfillment already in ancient history must still yet to come to fulfillment; i.e. the legs of that 4th kingdom in Daniel keep getting stretched infinitely for each new generation that reads it. The idea that maybe Ezekiel 38 could be referring to something entirely different, or, maybe it's just wrong, doesn't even occur to them.
Scripture interpret scripture . Gog and magog is in Revelation Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
They say their are two of the gog magog battles, thats baloney. Read revelation in 1 sitting, takes an hour.
@@klausmkl So that means Revelation re-interpreted Ezekiel bc Ezekiel's prophecy regarding Gog & Magog never occurred. Revelation, then, pushes it into the future. This makes me wonder with prophecy being reinterpreted like this routinely: What exactly is the point of prophesying something over 2000+ years in the future? How does that give any hope to those who first hear them? These prophecies are always in the future and never actually occur; OR, they did occur but we missed them or don't/didn't recognize them, or didn't happen at all like we thought they would or should.
When you study the OT in Hebrew it totally disproves the NT in every way if you check your bias at the door and be truthful about it. Rabbi tovia singer or scobak have many videos of the correct interpretations of the Hebrew scriptures. I'm not going to have a western English speaking Christian tell me their interpretation is correct and the jews are wrong.
Would be great to see Dr Tabor to discuss prophecy with Dr Hamp from The Way Congregation
The "dead in Christ" sounds like those who don't believe
The Septuagint version of Daniel 9:24-27 says Jesus fulfilled the first thro and a half years . No Antichrist is mentioned.
Wish I could have attended the March, the clock never stops.
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
The inability of evangelical Christians to see the many contradictions in their beliefs is mind boggling.
Wow....2 great story tellers...Paul and HAGEE....amazing how people believe both of them....
Thank you
I don't believe in prophesy or names being written in a Book of Life. Those would be evidence against the divine gift of moral free will, and the universe being created for the sole purpose of being a reasonable stage on which to exercise that free will.
I like how the Talmudic rabbis were like yeah this failed and were gonna stick this in the writings but we're gonna keep Daniel because it shows that a biblical character was able to gain atonement and be considered righteous without the temple during the exile Daniel follows Solomons prayer of forgiveness in chapter 6 and in chapter 4 says you can atone for your sins with charity and and through kindness to the poor without a temple Daniel 4:24
Indeed, O king, may my counsel please you, and with charity you will remove your sin and your iniquity by showing mercy to the poor; perhaps your tranquility will last."
Daniel 6:11
And Daniel, when he knew that a writ had been inscribed, came to his house, where there were open windows in his upper chamber, opposite Jerusalem, and three times a day he kneeled on his knees and prayed and offered thanks before his God just as he had done prior to this.I feel like this is the only Two reasons the rabbis kept Daniel in the tanakh because it shows a biblical character gaining atonement through prayer charity and kindness without a sacrifice and a temple.this is a major argument rabbis use against Christianity is that Daniel gained atonement and said gentiles and Jews can atone for they’re sins without a temple why do we need Jesus to die for us ?
If you look !phrases relating to the rapture can be found throughout the .Bible
And still time rolls on!
Grabbing my popcorn........
Fantasy zealots rarely impress the better gods. One might wonder if they built a hell for themselves, and all the souls their tyranny drags along
Folks back then thought heaven was above us in the sky. They had no idea about space like we do. So is heaven a planet? Church, what church? These folks are so certain in their beliefs it is astonishing .
No, they were aware about observation of Cosmos as real thing around. Books are very ancient Wisdom, but translated, copied, by people after than lost memory of What happened by past. What they relate by Sun turning dark, and Stars falling, ''man like shape between clouds'', are phenomenons All liked to a recurrent Nova from a Star, and Happened by past, and will happen again, ans we are studying this actually by Geology and Astrophysics, plasma science, but How are we to know, and how many humans here will never understand what it is? Most people know nothing about recurrent novas, geomagnetic activity, and when this will come again, they will describe the same way that the prophecies, trying to think it is a miracle, and they are the chosen ones to survive. Certainly when you will be shake by the death of all your loved ones, you will begining to say they are All gone in Heaven, this will be your try to keep your mental health. So this happened, so much died, very hard to be Wise and stand in Real, when those things happen. Most people have lost Faith, they replaced that by being blind and in comfort, money, technology, narratives, they are not at all prepared to see this happening in plain face.
We are the Church, this is a basic🙏🤗
That's for sure astonishing to be so sure in such beliefs👌☺️👍
Assuming the concept of "space" is even true lol
Daniel's timeline fits perfectly over the destruction of the world by flood. It also has been true with the fall of some nations. I see no reason why it should not occur the same way again. Most important is that some or all church leaders take their place as servants and begin teaching the way of life. You can become a son of God. There are probably those who have been promised to be here to see his coming. The שלג. Where are they? And what about the נצח. Is there anyone? I would like to know. And why does it say we sleep, when he has clearly comes for the righteous before the body died. If there is a teacher, please tell who.
Great scholarship well explained. Thanks Prof
Thanks for your analysis. I really appreciate it.
Dr Tabor, where can I find what you personally believe, or will you cover that in # 25?
Thanks
You know why it’s called the Lord’s Prayer and not the Jesus Prayer? Because I Jesus Christ said,”Pray as I pray. To our Father Hashem.” I never taught anyone to pray or to worship me. It is actually called the Amidah that was recited for centuries by Israel and still is.
Thanks again Dr. Tabor! Enjoy your Thanksgiving Day!
The "fatal" FLAW is that it's FALSE! NANNO NANNO!! 😎
We already have "a new heaven and a new earth" in the sense that the heavens are understood in a radically different way that was the case in ancient times. Likewise for the earth which is now just a little speck of dirt in a vast cosmology.
No confusion about end times. Jesus taught to always look for His coming. The story of the 10 virgins teach this. The false sheep have no interest in looking for His appearing. Jesus taught there is a reward for those who constantly look for Jesus's appearing.
All ten virgins were asleep. It parable of not about watching, but having a close relationship with God, which is the extra oil.
Why dont you ever call out the rabbis who think the prophesy of daniel is currently playing out in insrael right now. Why do you only target Christians?
Because some Christians are running around using this drivel to convert Israelis to Christianity. They just think they have the right to push their agenda on everyone else, aggressively.
How are you following what Rabbi’s think?
38:37 That's when he is talking about Jewish Rabbi's & Israel.
Very engaging, lots to think about
Just like Thomas Equines', James Tabor uses reason and in some cases archeology to rise your mind from emotional religion!
Sorry to disagree since I oppose the prophetic Televangelists, but the gospels and apocalyptic books of the Bible do in fact suggest that there will be 3 comings as you put it because there is scriptural indication that there is a spacing in time between the dead in Christ rising first in the middle of the Great Tribulation and the final coming of Christ where he lands at the mount of Olives and fights a final battle often called Armageddon.
On the contrary: the church fathers did believe in the rapture though not in the same sense as the word is commonly understood today.
The word rapture comes from the Latin word raptus, meaning "a carrying off." This idea is included in non-religious definitions of rapture:
a state or experience of being carried away by overwhelming emotion (MW)
A related Latin word, rapio, is used in the Latin Vulgate's translation of 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up [rapiemur] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. [ESV]
The rapture, then, is not a concept that suddenly appeared when dispensationalism came along. The word was used in English and Latin long prior. However, it was understood differently, so we need to examine what the church fathers wrote regarding this rapio or raptus: a) what is it, b) when does it occur and c) is it secret or visible.
What is the rapture?
Church fathers widely understand the rapture to be a future physical meeting of Christ and Christians in the air.
Origen gives no indication of a hidden meaning in Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. He simply writes that both the dead and alive in Christ will rise:
Those whom we spoke of as dead have special need of the resurrection, since not even those who are alive can be taken up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air before the dead in Christ first rise. (Commentary on John, 20.233)
Rufinus of Aquileia clearly indicates a physical reunion with Christ in the sky:
And do not marvel that the flesh of the saints is to be changed into such a glorious condition at the resurrection as to be caught up to meet God, suspended in the clouds and borne in the air. (Commentary on the Apostles' Creed, 46)
Augustine says that living Christians will "both die and rise again at once while caught up into the air":
And why should it seem to us incredible that that multitude of bodies should be, as it were, sown in the air, and should in the air forthwith revive immortal and incorruptible, when we believe, on the testimony of the same apostle, that the resurrection shall take place in the twinkling of an eye, and that the dust of bodies long dead shall return with incomprehensible facility and swiftness to those members that are now to live endlessly? (City of God, 20.20)
The way this guy speaks, so certain, got his info from direct call📞with big G.
I think the rapture doctrine really hangs on how you interpret that 1st Thessalonians 4 passage. How are we interpreting "in the air" and the verb for "caught up." All of the other verses in the New Testament that some people use to support the doctrine aren't as decisive. But even in the 1st Thessalonians 4 passage, as Dr. Tabor suggests, the event is public in nature, and, if we are to believe that it is supposed to be a surprise to unbelievers, then there's no such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture seven years before a Second Coming. (Think about how long this whole idea of a rapture seven years before the Second Coming has been around. Plenty of unbelievers know about it.) If there is a rapture, it would have to be a part of the Second Coming event itself.
Hi, Excellent logic there! There is no evidence for a rapture occurring as many believe - because the apostle Paul never said anyone goes to Heaven when they are caught up in the air - IF you read both these references below by Paul - very carefully - and compare to Revelation 11:3-18's prophecy of the actual timing of Jesus' return to the mount of Olives [Zechariah 14:3-9] Revelation 11:14-15 shows The Blowing of the seventh or last trump to be the same hour the 'two witnesses' [Revelation 11:3-12] are called up into the clouds - that Paul is referring to in these 2 New Testament writings:
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." [I Thessalonians 4:15-17]
I dunno why those that teach the or a rapture is to occur - before the resurrection of the saints - but notice that Jesus is about to descend from Heaven when the saints are collected from all over the earth as The olivet prophecy shows in Matthew 24:27-31.
" For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." [Matthew 24:27-31]
Paul covers the return of Jesus in 1 Corinthians also when he mentions the 'Last' or seventh trump:
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." [1 Corinthians 15:51-53]
Now notice Revelation 11:11-13 as follows because Paul said clearly nobody is Resurrected [or raptured] before the dead in Christ are - which is shown in Revelation 11:18.
"And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
And the SAME HOUR was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Revelation 11:3-18 is actually paralleling Zechariah 14:3-9 because Zechariah 14:4-5 shows Jesus setting foot on the Mount of Olives and a great Earthquake splitting it into two halves with a VALLEY in between the halves for the survivors of the Siege of modern day Jerusalem [Zechariah 12:1-3] and capture of half the city [Zechariah 14:2] to Flee to - escorted by Resurrected saints to that Valley:
"Then shall THE LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
And HIS FEET shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
and THE LORD MY GOD shall come, and ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE. [Zechariah 14:3-5 KJV]
Jesus said in Matthew 24:27-31 that 'wherever the carcass was [i.e. symbolically, Himself ] There the will the eagles [Saints] be gathered together' and clearly Zechariah's Lord God* will be standing on the mount of Olives at first [Zechariah 14:4] and Later on Mount Zion [ Revelation 14:1 and Ezekiel 43:1-12] and Revelation 11:13-15 & 18 supplies the exact timing of that resurrection Hour:
"And the SAME HOUR was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
And the SEVENTH angel SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great;
and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. " [ Revelation 11:13-15 & 18 ]
Clearly Jesus is not coming to take the saints away to heaven in a so called Rapture whilst the Earth is destroyed by fire as some believe - but is coming to save the Earth from those destroying it - as Revelation 11:18 shows very Clearly. 🤨🙃
* Zechariah 11:10-13 shows that Zechariah's Lord God would be Valued at 'thirty pieces of Silver' in an amazing prophecy that was fulfilled almost to the letter - of that prophecy as Matthew Shows in Matthew 26:15 & 27:3-10.
For well over 300 years (ever since Newton vs Leibniz) we have defined 0 and 1 (and their geometric counterparts) as follows:
0 = not-necessary
0D = not-necessary
1 = necessary
1D = necessary
(Newton won so above are his definitions. Newton conflated "natural" with "necessary" and was largely ignorant of Geometry.)
A year ago quantum physics proved that Leibniz was actually correct (the universe is "not locally real") which looks like this:
0 = necessary
0D = necessary
1= not-necessary
1D = not-necessary
Since Mathematics > Physics > Chemistry > Biology... the implications of the definitions of 0 and 1 changing are world altering.
"Only the zero-of yourself is necessary" is now a true statement. That's neat to think about.
A little over a year ago the zero-of yourself was not-necessary. See how the facts change over time? Newton really set humanity back with his conflated definitions.
Zero is the most important number in mathematics and is both a real and an imaginary number with a horizon through it.
It's geometric counterpart zero-dimensional space is the most important dimension in physics and is both a real and an imaginary dimension with an event horizon through it.
Quarks are zero-dimensional color-charged electricity and the Monad is the zero-dimensional space binding our quarks together with the strong force; the hue-monad (or soul).
Read Leibniz's Monadology 📖.
Black holes are ten-dimensional, obviously.
Zero is the only number with a horizon through it so 0 and 10's geometric counterparts 0D (quantum) and 10D (cosmological) are the event horizon boundaries of this side of the mirror universe.
What is the definition of zero in math?
Zero is the integer denoted 0 that, when used as a counting number, means that no objects are present. It is the only integer (and, in fact, the only real number) that is neither negative nor positive. A number which is not zero is said to be nonzero. A root of a function is also sometimes known as "a zero of ."
Any non-zero number to the zero power equals one.
Zero to any positive exponent equals zero.
Zero is the subject where counting numbers are the objects.
[Subject]:
a thinking or feeling entity; the conscious mind; the ego, especially as opposed to anything external to the mind.
the central substance or core of a thing as opposed to its attributes.
[Object]:
a thing external to the thinking mind or subject.
Theology is Theos and Logos. That's El and Elohim.
El "alone" is on the other side of the event horizon at the zero-of yourself. Elohim "singularity" is on this side of the event horizon.
Elohim "singularity" is how we see God from this side.
(the event horizon stops us from seeing El)
See how Theology is the two sides of 0D? That's the Holy Trinity just imagine an event horizon between El (top of pyramid) and Elohim (bottom of pyramid).
Genesis 1 Elohim (Father and Son "who are one") and Ruach Elohim (Holy Spirit) is the best possible hue-monad (soul).
They made the two types of quarks which this entire contingent and less real side of the zero-of ourselves universe is made of: two down, one up (male) and two up, one down (female).
Genesis 2 is a 3D created being named Yah Tsebaoth (Yaldabaoth) and that's our true enemy. He's playing all sides against one another and claiming to be God but he has no titles just his dumbass names and epithets (nicknames).
Amos 5
Names of God Bible
27 I will send you into exile beyond Damascus, says Yahweh, whose name is Elohe Tsebaoth.
OT:
Genesis 1 Elohim is a title.
Genesis 2 Yahweh Elohim is a name.
NT:
Christ is a title.
Jesus Christ is a name.
Quran:
Allah is a name, not a title (Yah Tsebaoth, the deciever from Genesis 2, has 99 names in Islam).
If you worship Yahweh Elohim, Jesus Christ or Allah you're worshipping a named (created) being and that's about as Pagan (Materialistic) as it gets. "One" hasn't been necessary for a year now (never has been).
It's true that Chaos was 1st...but God was 0th so Chaos can eat a double decker 💩 sandwich.
Let's all admit that we were wrong about Theology, Mathematics and Physics together and just move forward. Zero-in on what's necessary.
Do you have anymore proof, about this, Yaldabaoth? And this false supposed God?
Interesting how are used mathematics to describe your theory, but to be honest, I don’t buy it, however, I would like to hear more from you about this.
I would also like to hear more! I’m a bit confused but also kind of get it. I’ve always thought about the zero or infirmity concept and the boundary between everything that we cannot perceive on the other side
Sounds of the trumpet if God is also his voice
What war have we ever missed everyone keeps saying we will be saved and raptured out whats going to happen if we are not will you still love god or will you turn on him if it dont happen they way you say.. People get there hopes up then if it dont happen the way they had there hopes on they feel let down will you still have faith will you still love god ?? No one never said life was going to be easy and is life supposed to be easy when it isnt we learn something new. Why do we have to try and put a date on everything for why cant we just enjoy our lifes and try to be happy have some faith in god obey his commandmants pray and seek god .
Yes, Hagee is guilty of begging the question. Example: How do you know that dispensational eschatology is correct? Because the Bible teaches it. This is a classic fallacy.
Isaiah 65 is talking about the 1000 year reign of the Messiah on the throne of David as the NT talks about.
Amazed professor Tabor didn’t realise this
@@decay-154
What I find interesting is that he might be talking from a historical point of view and only staying in the verse at hand even though the rest of the bible is needed to correctly understand any given passage.
We know what should be done with all these false Prophets.
Looks like Hagee needs to read Proverbs 23:20!
Rather than Jesus slaying the evil ruler with his mouth, why doesn’t God do a parp from his trouser trumpet.
I find that I'm afraid if they're right. If they're right, then great, it's just my own personal tragedy and 99% of people are damned anyway. But I'm even more afraid if they're wrong, and it's therefore just a bunch of loose screws within humanity; they damn is all and themselves, and it's not so much a private matter that happens in death, but happens right in front of our eyes as a wild pack of lies. It's simultaneously the heights of the top and the depths of the bottom of our collective potential to ever been anything more. It's like Batman's Joker, just cackling, hyperventilating madness out there, hoping for self destruction and mutual annihilation. It's nihilism, it's true depravity. It's like what the Romans understood or said of the Phoenicians, it's a mass child sacrifice and then bathing in the blood, and it's somehow good. This isn't civilization, this is barbarism. It is the pure distillation of anti human, anti god, anti good.
They play with that, yes this can be seen as the revert of God to build prophecies like that. But Rome's religion became actually that as fact. The problem is that this prophecy is true about a Sun's event that should impact life on Earth in a terrible way. So it is important for you to prepare mentally for that, in giving yourself a divine mission in Truth, and Wisdom at a high level.
Paul never wrote those verses. Nobody knows the authors. It was written in Greek.
I don't agree with most of what they say, but in this case the SDA'S timeline makes the most sense. The rapture is the 2nd coming of Christ, the millenium is Satan's imprisonment on a desolate earth, followed by a 3rd coming along with his church to resurrect the wicked, that is the resurrection unto death
Also,you have not mentioned the Revelation 12 sign which appeared in the heavens several years ago. God Bless
Wow...is that a real old fashioned typewriter on your desk?
A martyrs Church relished martyrdom.
There is no such thing as a rapture that is such a lie Margaret McDonald 1830s where that came from
Most of the dead already arose, replaced by NPC characters starting from square zero. You've got to come for billions of years to birth a real Messiah. Takes a lot of spiritual stamina
Comments on here are reminding me of what Jesus said about mockers and scoffers in the last days. Just like the days of Noah! What amazes me is that the jews couldn't see a second coming during the time of Jesus's first coming. Now we have the same thing again with "Believers" not able to see the stages of the second coming. History repeats itself with nothing new under the sun! Its time to be critical of these preterist and amill views, because they are robbing you of the relevancy of Bible prophesy.
If it isn't written in your favorite cookbook, it can't be godfood, huh? Interesting alchemy
The Abrahamic wars hold the world hostage.
Everyone is going to go threw 3 1/2 years of the tribulation . Then the rapture will occur before the last 3 1/2 years . Shalom...
I think some hive minds need at least 7 years to organize seating in their abyss. Imagine what might happen if the bride of christ sat on the wrong angel and produced a demon?
Kent Hovind? 🙃
@@WayWalker3 a new Clark Kent? Where's my kryptonite taliswoman? ☺️
The judgement seat of christ, oh, paul said did he? 🧐.. hmm. If forgiveness is forgiveness how is there that kind of judgement after death? That makes no logical sense.
Imagine the bride of Christ is one woman that is part of him, but it's also those few women that have always been with him down through time that love him with all their hearts and he loves them as if they are his wife.
But you got to remember that Jesus taught you put God first without a second. He didn't want to be worshiped, he came to show that kind of birthright I get them to return to knowing god the creator of all creation the source of all that lives. It might be a drop of pure water that has God within him and God upon him. And that way he is God as mankind is the son of God. But God made him a little bit different God made him a little bit special. Like Moses he says you put God first without a second, God is such a unlimited existence that is hard to comprehend what he really is. But that is the one and only you should worship. If not you're following false idols. This is the time of the great resurrection of life on Earth give thanks for the Earth give thanks for everything you are give thanks for everything you will become, but give thanks for knowing god and raise your heart and your eyes you may see that higher light and be led to the truth.
Did you go to the Palestinain ceasefire march?
the Marriage supper of the Lamb is the Catholic Mass, the very thing that Pope Francis is trying to get rid of. just saying.