Big O: Final Thoughts
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2024
- On the Wednesday January 18, 2006 episode of the GeekNights podcast, we brought our full and final thoughts on Big O and Big O 2. It's best to treat it as one long show split into two parts, and it's definitely worth watching!
Original GeekNights podcast episode:
frontrowcrew.co...
Audio-only on the GeekNights Patreon:
/ 30298531
Beautiful stuff. It took me many years of being separated from the show to finally break away from the lens of Roger and instead consider the show from the perspective of Angel.
Angel is the writer. Something traumatic happened in her past, and so she's taken to writing as a form of self exploration to help resolve her painful memories. She cannot forget them, so she writes about a city where all of the inhabitants forget their own memories and inserts herself there. Angel keeps the setting, a city of amnesia, but rewrites the characters over and over again as she subconsciously struggles to find a solution to her problems.
Eventually, after countless drafts, Angel starts writing about the characters becoming somewhat self aware, intentionally leaving fragments of former drafts in the narrative. Angel uses her cast to slowly explore her own wish to forget the traumatic memories of an event that " Clipped her wings". Many characters she creates (the tomato and the "cast" in the name of god metaphors) have their own thoughts on memories and how to cope with them or the lack of them. For example, Angel writes about Schwarzwald, who struggles to find the truth behind his lack of memories and what his reaction would be if he finally discovered that the memories he sought from 40 years ago aka "previous drafts of the story " were also fictional.
The story ends with Roger Smith discovering the truth as well. Roger sees a flash of content from previous drafts where there was a great Megadeus war. Roger sees himself die, and be remade from draft to draft, metaphorically the assembly line.
Angel writes Roger's reaction to the previously mentioned revelations in a way that would be true to his character. Roger chooses to ardently strive to move forward in life without heed of the past. Roger argues the reasoning behind his decision with Angel in hopes of negotiating that she try things his way and do the same with her own situation. This deeply resonates with Angel to the point of moving her to tears. Angel is inspired by the decision Roger made. The negotiator has convinced her.
That final shot with Roger confidently comforting Angel's shoulder as she looks at her "self inserted" interactions with Roger within the story (new memories), is a metaphor. Her creations helped her finally discover a way to deal with her painful older memories. Angel decides to march on with life, focusing on the present and the future, like Roger.
Now satisfied, Angel completes the story and it starts anew with it's final draft. This time Dorothy is not lost, she is simply standing next to Angel as one of her favored characters. Roger continues to be his confident self, eagerly pressing onwards in life without worry of the past. Angel smiles, the negotiation is complete and she is healed, no longer the beast she was before her wings got clipped.
In my mind it's possible that Angels traumatic event was a rape. Her wings being clipped sounds akin to something like that, especially with how vulnerable and sexualized Angel tends to be throughout the show.
Through writing her story, Angel created a character who had an answer to a great personal torment that she could not come up with on her own. Now, when confronted with life's hardships, I can imagine Angel thinking to herself " What would Roger do", then smiling and resolving to continue moving forwards with her life towards a greater future.
Beautiful stuff.
Thank you!
Your theory is fine, but Roger not being the main character who matters to anything is against the working order of the show's concept
Bro, it's not that deep or dire.
Angel is a femme fatale in a noir genre, being sulty is their m.o.
I highly doubt she had a traumatic event like rape.
That's just your white knighting and weird hang ups on female sexuality projecting through.
@@1SpicyMeataball it sounds like you’re projecting onto the guy
big o is a simulation about coming to terms, that you must come to terms with your own grief
Angel Rosewater wrote a book called 'Metropolis', which is essentially the entire plot we see in all of the episodes. They are turning the book into a simulated reality movie, and she has to negotiate a book/screenplay deal with a real world Roger Smith who she just happens to be in love with and is jealous of his android assistant named Dorothy. She writes all of this into her story in the hope of causing the real world (future world, btw, where they can do 'Matrix' level simulations for entertainment) Roger Smith to fall in love with her.
That's why there are no 'memories' before 40 years ago - it's all just a story.
Great theory
But you forgot the biblical eschatology angle...
Angel has got amnesia during the real war and eventually ended up where Roger the war vet who's rich AF and negotiates her memories with therapy every morning with books and video... slowly in order to not freak Angel out. Thats why all the people are simulations with no extra information. Including the simulated Roger. Angel watches the story, references the book she re-reads every morning and Eventually her memory comes back and they go on about their day... its pacific rim+Batman+50 first dates
Terrible, and I love it lol
Just as plausible as the other theories.
What I love about this show is you can use the puzzle pieces to fill in the rest of the jigsaw with your own pieces, and write in your own story
The issue with the ending is that people missed the point of the show during the first season, so the writer got salty and made the point more literal in the second season. There was never meant to be a big ongoing story line in Big O and the answer to the mystery of what happened 40 years ago wasn't important, because the show was never meant to be about that. It was supposed to be an episodic series and Paradigm City was meant to be nothing more than an interesting setting for Roger and Dorothy's adventures. But people didn't get that and so for Big O 2 the main writer (who was pretty much the only writer who came back) somewhat petulantly decided to hammer home the point much more bluntly, by revealing Paradigm City as a literal stage that existed for someone's entertainment.
Evangelion is one of the Emperor's new clothes. People kept staring at it, expecting more than nudity. The actual meaning is shallow. Big O on the other hand is nigh impenetrable, because it has too many layers. I don't think saying it pulled an Eva does it justice.
There is so much more to the big-o than evangelion's ending.
The first half is a set-up for the metaphorical space that the show was easing the watcher into seeing. It takes multiple watches to understand, which is a stroke of genius not many people are going to understand on the first watch.
@@solidsmith8580 i watched this show on toonami back in the day. I own the DVD set. And after all these years I stillllll can’t figure out all the layers
Evangelion is not even difficult to understand, the big o on another other hand...
so much of the discourse surrounding this show is painfully superficial--so glad to finally get someone pulling up the great literary analysis that big o warrants! def. not biased by the overlapping of our readings though haha
Underrated anime. So much better than evangelion. Change my mind
No, I will not. Evangelion (much like the Gundam series) is a very adolescent philosophy, whereas The Big O is more an adult's philosophy. Change MY mind.
@@thatguybehindtheglass muh philosophy
The Big O is ultimately about three things: Historical memory, personal identity, and self-ironic old-school mecha mayhem. ;-)
hmmmm sounds like attack on titan plot
the ymir wiping out of eldians memories
reset the world and piloting titans
Huh
This was an amazing commentary, and I'm always glad to see that there's many different theories so I don't feel bad about "not getting it"!
I think, though it has been over 15 years since I last saw the series whole, the ending showing the giant lights creating artificial sunlight, extremely high sea level, underwater massive constructions, larger ruined domes, army of giant robots is an allusion to the aftermath of World War 3 and World War 4 having finally ruined the world. Their world having reached an advanced state, such as: androids of varying degrees mimicking humans, giant robot soldiers of immense destructive power, and massive infrastructures the size of mountains was mostly destroyed and are the only vestiges of an older civilization. The giant lights were creating artificial sunlight, likely blotted out by nuclear winter, same with the endless deserts and melted ice caps causing extremely high sea level.
The amnesia is likely self imposed on mass societal level to cope with not only survivor's guilt and anguish of lost loved ones, but also coping with the destruction of the earth and their former civilization. At the end Roger Smith is shown, young, standing with Rosewater senior, young, in front of the older, larger, ruined dome when it was intact, an army of Roger negotiators created to quell civil disputes in an uneasy new society after WW3. I got the distinction, the older, larger, ruined dome was constructed after WW3, and the smaller domes were constructed after WW4. With time, Roger Smith became the only functioning negotiator after WW4. WW4 was likely a far smaller conflict with most of humanity lost during WW3, but its weapons, autonomous, intelligent, and sentient still roamed the planet and attacked any remnants of perceived combatants. Likely drawn to the thoughts of the inhabitants.
Roger asking Angel to release the past was two fold: to allow the past to die, but also to not be overwhelmed by the revelations of the past and cause her giant robot to destroy Paradigm City for a second and final time. Whether or not she was an android or human capable of telepathically communicating with her robot should also note why amnesia was instated. Technology reached a level of destruction with thought alone. In my mind, there was no philosophy, but so many allusions to the past interpreted as a puzzle with no solution, because it had been lost through destruction and willed amnesia.
Finally, it is alluded a large portion of the city's population are androids, addressing the constant use of "memories". These androids are surrogates to care for the remaining humans and to give a sense of civilization and continuity, even though it is fake.
The show is brilliant melancholy for the aftermath of such a scenario, with the "anime-twist" - big punchy-punch robots!
Brilliant post !! Shouldnt be over looked
@@PavethaWay , the show is one of the best postapocalypic stories. A fantastic mishmash of many plots concerning the end of humanity. Awesome anime!
Beck is a villain at first in my opinion. He basically got Suldano killed, killed Timothy Wainwright, etc.
The more I learn about this show the more confused I get but in a great way.
Man I watched, rewinded, and im still confused 😅
@@fisherprice6012It's the show. It doesn't focus on the main plot until the last few episodes. Yes, it sprinkles fragments here and there, but it focuses more on fun than the story until the last few episodes.
I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but it's very confusing, and I would have liked if they had put it infront.
couldn't help but notice that Dorothy very closely resembles the character Lal from Star Trek TNG episode "The Offspring" in appearance, behavior and personality.
We're on a stage this world is a stage and we are the actors who play the roles given to us
I actually really like the ending to Big O, and have seen I seen it as a teen and felt like I needed more, and let down. I felt let down, but I also really liked what I got. I seen the show again with some adult experience, knowledge, and wisdom under my belt, and more aware of the show's limitations and more forgiving and accepting and less cynical about it, and I like the show even better, and realize the show is a lot better than I thought. I also like the ending even more
I really like your villain analysis. Of all the 5 Domineus we see only one is Guilty and that is Alan Gabriel. All of the others were supposed to be piloting Megadeus by God's plan. I don't know what I think happened or what the point was or anything I just know I love the show and love thinking about memories we don't have, memories we were given and memories of the future.
I really want a solid explanation of the series.
I absolutely hate that you're referring to this as Big O and Big O 2. It is just one complete show. Yes Season 2 is very different from Season 1 and goes in a bit of a different direction but it fits together and works out fine.
Don't be afraid of knowledge 💯💯💯
Great quote from the show!
So what is the obvious truth?? That this was all the script of a TV show and Angel was self inserting herself into it and going crazy?
Or Is it a simulation where people are trying to recreate the already dead human race and they're hoping through simulations they will one day become like real humans? (The tomato metaphor) Tell me... tell me! The ending has driven me as mad as Ziebach!
This plot is impossible to be called obvious, because at the end they throw 3 completely separate theories in your face lol. There's also an android theory, that they are all machines trying to become human with the nightmare of Roger being an android and seeing Big Ears's face fall off revealing he was an android this whole time.
1. Its a TV script
2. Clones/tomatoes raised with the memories of their fallen world in the hopes they'll become a real civilization one day.
3. Androids trying to trick themselves into thinking they're alive or trying to lean what it means to be alive.
It was obviously conceptual.Trying to break it down to a series of events without appreciating that reality itself gets warped multiple times (which is shown once at the end, and indicated to have happened before) only misses the point. The world itself is practically allegorical, pun somewhat intended.
@@nathanlevesque7812 I always kind of knew/feared that. The only thing worse then a character in a story dying tragically? A character never really existing even it their own story lol. That's why I and most people despise the "It was all a dream!" or "It's all fake!" storylines.
Remember, the second season was the writer's trying to shove in an explanation since they never intended to go past "cool robot noir show."
Cast in the name of God
Ye Guilty
Why was this other guy in the video?
Exactly!!!
Not even a few seconds in and immediately the Evangelion schtick, ugh. The second season of Big O is LITERALLY the writers pulling an explanation out of their asses because the original premise was and will always be "We just wanted a cool mecha noir show."
You do realize that theu can still come up with a cohesive plot right? Like the way part 2 is structured and it's outcome could make it all make sense, no?
No not really, season 1 basically did/implied what, season 2 did, season two just screamed it at the audience because they got filtered
The show’s bizarre BS didn’t come out of nowhere if you actually paid attention
Watch the show again before complaining, try connecting the ending with the plot of each episode
This is a philosophical dystopian gundam batman, I see nothing wrong with that take at all. As a matter of fact it’s why I love this series so much.
It needed a season 3 so bad
Alan Gabriel was Roger's Joker.
Beck was Roger's Riddler.
Tbh Beck was only there for comedic relief and character development.
Alan Gabriel was a true antagonist.
Schwarzschild cannot be fathomed
@@nathanlevesque7812 He's like Hush. He gets at the protagonist and morals on the deepest level. Hush dies in the comics because writers don't know how to tackle him.
@@SalamandersRCoolAnd I’d say Alex was more like a Bane type villain
im done with this lets go to dennys
Can we get a reboot I wanna know why they veered off on the second part
I wonder how interesting it would be if DC comics could consider making an anime version of Batman TAS of having Batman piloting a giant robot?
i think they did?
@@joshuagraham2843 Is it Ninja Batman?
The other guy saying Alan Gabriel might have had more to him is in denial. The show has shown totally the first guy is completely right. Alan Gabriel literally just wants to hurt people, and has absolutely no direction or morals. He was happy to turn on the union just because Alex gave him a chance to kill Roger and cause massive destruction with his own megadeus
"It's just talking, its just words, its nothing physical, it's nothing real".
If that's how you feel, why waste your time watching anime? Is any of it real? Go outside and push on physical objects then. You spent 25 mins talking about an anime, which you felt was important, but then you dissed philosophy, talking, "words", and anything "not real"? This kid sounds confused as hell.
I said the same exact thing! Like why bother with any of this if your just gonna dismiss all of it. I felt bad for the other guy because he really tried to move the convo along but mr.I’m to good to talk about this show kills the vid. Smh
This show went over so many people’s heads. Does no one understand what “Big O” means? As in Big O notation. In the city of paradigm… This whole aspect is completely lost on people somehow
07:00 Such a great analysis
We didn't get to see Back with the Gigadeus
Cast in The Name Of GOD Ye Not Guilty
Eva is goat like bebop and berserk
cap