Repertoire: The Haydn Symphony CRUSADE! (No. 51)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Symphony No. 51 in B flat major
This symphony has a notorious reputation as one of the most difficult works ever written for the French horn, but there's a lot more going on than mere virtuosity. The works offers a veritable clinic in Haydn's own particular brand of continuous variation and development of his thematic material, and it does so in music of astonishing wit and charm.
Musical Examples courtesy of Naxos Records
On behalf of all horn players, thanks to you for a marvelous analysis. And thanks to Haydn for not subjecting us to that high note ever again.
Out of curiosity, I asked ChatGPT to describe the formal elements of this symphony. After giving me the “typical” form of a classical symphony, it told me to consult a musicologist if I wanted a more detailed analysis. Looks like your job is safe for now, Dave.
Thanks for continuing the series in the face of annoying-ass copyright claims. You're one of my favorite HaydnTubers, at least, out of the few that exist.
Having owned & enjoyed the Dorati collection and the Hogwood set, your explanation provided the words that captured my pure enjoyment of Haydn Symphonies. With your insights, I can listen to other Haydn in fresh ways. There is so much enjoyment- the witt, the fun, playful character.
Thank you Dave,
Haydn is my equal favourite composer with JS Bach, but there is so much music that I cannot hope to know all of both composer in the rest of my life!
But you cause me to know more Haydn [symphonies] among his famous gems in piano trios, string quartets and piano pieces - sonatas and variations. I thank you "muchly!"
As you said, "beyond remarkable!"
For me, this is your best current series of videos.
Best wishes from George
Thank you.
Ear opening indeed. This may reveal a lack of serious listening from my part, as for all the times I listened to this peculiar work (mainly Dorati but I also got acquainted to Hogwood, Weil and Solomons through RUclips), what you put in light was almost entirely unsuspected from me! And the extracts from Bela Drahos and his Swedish ensemble fit with such quality your guiding lines. They seem very gifted to convey the wit and humour too. Thank you.
Antal Dorati and The Philharmonia Hungarica were my first exposures to Haydn's early and middle symphonies. The first time, I ever heard this symphony. It blew (pun intended) me away. The low notes on the horns, make them sound trombone like. One of Haydn's enigmatic symphonies. More - were on the way, No. 46 in B major, is a prime example.
On #46 I always thought it odd that Dorati has the horns playing in B basso. I'm almost certain that Haydn specified B alto in the score
Your probably right . These are enigmatic works. Where one symphony, does not sound like the others. I always found No.46 to be a rather dark work. still genius though@@alexloepp8386
Great video Dave, I need to go back and review this symphony.. btw, I love how Haydn, right after those weird series of notes for the horns to start out the 2nd movement, he brings in the winds for brevity and contrast. Haydn never ceases to amaze me.
Yay!! Thank you for taking the time to do these longer form videos. Especially these excellent Haydn videos. Much appreciated.
This time I listened the recording of Adam Fisher with the Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra. These recent recordings of all Haydn's symphonies on Nimbus Records.
This is really a fine discussion. Very well done! I particularly enjoyed your highlighting of the role of timbre as a symphonically unifying element. This often doesn't get enough attention in literature on the genre.
I would love to see a debate between Dave and some other critic on Haydn, specifically, his humor and creativity vs. a lack of depth. The other party would argue the latter view and maintain that Haydn was rightfully eclipsed by Mozart and Beethoven and as in the words of one Amazon reviewer, didn't so much express cheerfulness as an absence of woe. FYI I'd be rooting for Dave!
The following recent book may be helpful in correcting the view that Haydn was (relatively speaking) under-appreciated in the 19th century: Simon P. Keefe: Haydn and Mozart in the Long Nineteenth Century (Cambridge University Press, 2023). 'Complete' editions of J. S. Bach, Handel, Mozart, Beethoven, and Schubert appeared in the 19th century (all now superseded by modern equivalents). Two heroic (incomplete) attempts at a complete Haydn edition were made in the 20th century; the third such attempt succeeded during the 2010s, making all his surviving works readily available in print, as noted earlier in these comments.
What a fascinating symphony...I am a little surprised to hear that quote from Rimsky however, because in his Principles of Orchestration treatise, in the foreword, he actually dismisses Haydn, Gluck, and Mozart as being too old fashioned to study. He even has a few choice words about Beethoven, but then again, he only quotes his own works for the rest of the book. But I am glad to hear that he at least knew a good orchestrator when he heard one, even if he had to put on airs to appear relevant in his own time, (which he was), but I believe we can still learn from Papa Haydn today.
Yes, I enjoyed it, as I always do.
I have everything Derek Solomons recorded of Haydn. Perhaps a bit scruffy at times, they are invigorating and wonderful to hear. Do they supplant Ansermet, Bernstein, Davis, Jochum, Dorati, or Mariner? No. But what a wonderful and colorful listening experience!!! As for the Naxos cycle….it’s uniformly excellent
For his Sturm und Drang symphonies, try Pinnock (19 CDs box) : wonderful !
19 symphonies, not CDs : sorry
@@philippecassagne3192 I have them
Solomon's version of Symphony No 52 (especially the finale) is unmatched IMHO
I discovered this symphony with Solomons and never found a better version. His horns are agressive and tragic, so romantic ! And for me this work doesn't need to be played faster than Solomons did.
Something people don't realize aboutthe french horn is that the length of its tubing is the same length as an F Tuba- it's really a low pitched instrument pretending to be a middle/highish pitch instrument by virtue of a small mouthpiece. It's more difficult to play than other brass because the partials- possible notes you're able to play on a given fingering- are much closer together than other brass so great precision is required to "slot" into the correct notes.
Remarkable ! To my point of view, the best format for David's videos, with musical excerpts and knowledgeable commentaries. Should be extended to other famous cycles : all the Vivaldi concertos ? (I'm joking, but not totally !).
It would take half a lifetime to listen to all of Vivaldi's concertos. 😉
@@wzdavi In fact, not really. In rounded figures : 500 Vivaldi concertos versus 100 Haydn symphonies, and Vivaldi concertos are at least twice shorter. But much work anyway !