Let’s settle the longbow vs recurve debate!
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- Опубликовано: 4 фев 2024
- Okay so this video was not my best and I was struggling to get proper draws on the bow and I lost tons of footage…but I though that putting it up was still a good thing as the results were definitive and it was a good little life lesson also haha
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You’re not an idiot. 4k means your trying to give us better quality. Thank you for that.
Thanks my friend. Did not realize how much data it used up 😂
Even if it has to be 2 or more 4k videos stitched together from potentially even different days with different clothes on or whatever it doesn't even really matter, acknowledge it to be honest but beyond that it's still content, video is about showing/testing something if it does that but the scene transitions aren't hollywood tier perfect? Meh who cares, the info is the main draw.
Those little mistakes and the humility make you look like a real great guy. Appreciated that a lot actually
Thanks man! We all mess up and fail every now and then
Hi, I'd like to provide a more in depth explanation as for *why* reflex/recurves outperform long/flatbows.
Reflex/recurves rise quicker in weight and then slow down, meaning there's a lot more energy stored at the early/mid draw despite having the same draw weight at full draw. How long the siyahs (tips) are, and how aggressively recurved they are is a good indicator of how much more energy will be stored. But do know this is far from the only factor! Just a very easy & quick to explain one.
One of the main reasons you don't see any long/flatbows at high draw weights with these shapes is because the designs undertake *far* more stress. A bow of solid wood would simply break if you tried to bend it as much (unless it's a very low draw weight).
Because the tips don't bend, the stress is condensed into a smaller section of the limb. The limbs are also just being bent much further in general, the reflex/recurve of the tips also allows the bow to be drawn further. Well made horn bows actually take this stress nightmare even further! Unstrung, the limbs are pointing the opposite direction like the letter "C". Because their starting position is more forward, they're being bent further therefore resist more which gets you a higher draw weight without having to add mass to the limbs, meaning a faster bow.
The bow used in this video (MR Bows Tiron from the looks of it?) I would say is actually a little more on the passive side of these kinds of bows. It's also a fiberglass-wood laminate which can't handle stress as well as horn bows, so the design is a little more unambitious. If you'd like to try out the other end, you can look for a Manchu bow. Manchu are not fast, but they store the most energy out of any widely used design. You can get an Alibow yarha 2 at military weights for really cheap, though do know it will need extra heavy arrows (probably like 17-20GPP)since it's solid fiberglass and therefore quite sluggish.
To conclude, horn bows are in nearly every objective sense better performing. There is however one very very important aspect that longbows historically exceled in which is often forgotten in these discussions. Longbows are more expensive nowadays, but historically they were extremely affordable compared to horn bows.
Why construct 1 exceptional bow when you could arm 10 people with *good-enough* bows for the same price?
Thank you for that detailed and through breakdown my friend. Well done and very thought outs, I appreciate you taking the time to write it all out for everyone
I will check out alibow as well
There is also a geographical consideration to the process. Self-bows(Longbows) require large pieces of seasoned timber which isn't always cheap or a available in the areas that traditionally used recurves. Recurve composite bows are limited in their strength by the quality of the glue lamination. This means in environments that tend to be more humid and wet, natural glues tend to be more susceptible to failure, while in arid areas, where recurves are most commonly found, they are considerable more resilient. In England where rain is common, and large European hardwood and yew forests were more commonplace, self-bows are naturally a better option. In Mongolia, where bow wood is limited to Siberian birch but animal horn, tendon, and animal-based glues are available it makes economic sense why people in different parts of the planet chose different bow designs. Obviously there is also a degree of cultural diffusion that also leads to these weapons spreading to different areas, too.
I thought that longbows also have longer and heavier arrow.
@@vitrebrov In some composite bows, they are longbows in anything but name. Same arrow weight if not heavier. 120cm-150cm tall.
It would be more productive that bows should be categorized based on it's shape first, then the length. For example in straight limb category, you got Viking hunting bow for "Short limb" and English Longbow for "long limb". In Recurve category you got Turkish bow for "short limb" and Manchu bow for "long limb".
The bows look hard as fuck to draw, everyone has there off days haha, good on you for posting anyway, I enjoyed it. Feels good to have a real person on RUclips, you're the man
Yeah dude they felt extra heavy that day 😂 somedays you just don’t have it. And thanks for that
For sure. Best I can draw is 70lb repeatedly. 165lb is hulk level.
@@cartercustoms4600 how to do you build the strength to pull more?
@@NoRockinMansLand ether from training with a bow you already have or doing row exercises. Ether bent over rows with weights or cable rows.
It's really good for beginners to see the REALLY good people in the field having off-days, that way when they have an off-day they don't think "Dash Rendar never has days like this"
I prefer my recurves. No particular reason, other than they look cooler, maybe? I just like the way they look. Also, I DO like the fact they are shorter and easier to wield. I prefer traditional bows over compound bows.
They are amazing! I like the look of the longbow (probably my love of fantasy) but the recurve is the superior bow in technology
well there is nothing more beautifull than curves of crimean tatar ;)
Compound bows seem to easy to use, kinda taked the fun out of it
Always great content. I appreciate you posting all your videos!! They are both fun and informative, Keep up the great work!! 👍
Finally! A contest between longbow and recurve warbows!
Hey your no idiot, I just found the channel and I’ve been loving all the content! I enjoyed this video a lot, your resilience you share the video speaks volumes. A fan of the channel and excited to see what you come out with next 🤝
Thanks for sharing despite having an off day! Always appreciate this FUN content. Makes me want to get out my bow. ❤
Happily, glad you enjoyed the fun 😁
I always wonder, how powerful would a bow built with modern materials such as fiberglass compare to wood ones? And how much better the Compound bow design is.
Look at the flight archery distance records. When things are as equal as they can be the wood longbow is on the bottom at 450 yds, the modern American longbow at 550 yds, the recurve hornbow at 620 yds, the modern field bow at 800 yds, the modern compound at 1,320 yds. Oddly enough, the modern recurve flight bow a tad farther at 1,336 yds. Modern target recurves at 35 lbs are shooting farther (497 yds) then the heaviest draw weight English longbow. Crossbows leave them all in the dust at over 2,000 yds.
@@mikeorick6898 To be fair, there's no way a Hungarian bow or Manchu bow is shooting 600 yards, and the distance records for Ottoman flight bows in the 1500s were around 1000 yards. Horn/wood/sinew composites do not all perform in a similar way.
Incidentally, I'm highly skeptical that a normal target recurve is reaching 500 yards. Do you have a source for that?
@@mikeorick6898 bullshit rifle numbers
@@pyramid_scheme_termination3655 Verified official records.
Glad you uploaded! So much humility and grounded content, great video!
Hey thanks so much. So glad you enjoyed it! Gotta have those bad days every now and then 😂
Interesting observation you made on the energy stored in the early part of the recurve bows draw... sometimes for fun I loose arrows at about 20 inch draw, trying to be fast like some native American combat archery I've seen online. 45# and 50# bear recurves and they seem to fly fast. All the best.😊@@dashrendar5320
It was still a great video and the humility you show is inspiring
thumb draw naturally have longer draw length than three finger (about +1inch) and typpically manchu bow have 35-37inches draw length with far more straight forearm posture.
Great job, man! Really awesome! Thanks for making it for all of us 👍🏻🙏🏻🙇🏻♂️
Most welcome my friend, and thank you
Thank you for letting me know the speed test was lost and I didn't need to waste my lunch break trying to find it. Thumbs up Dash!
Ha most welcome.
Will do again sometime soon. When the rain passes
Nice! I was about to hit the gym. I could use some more inspiration!
BTW Dash, love your stuff. I been doing archery since August 2023 last year. Using a 60lb longbow usually at 20 yards. But I definitely want to get higher draw weights. 🎉
Right on my dude! Get after it! And thank you, glad you enjoy the stuff
Great video! Every joint in my body hurt watching you pull those bows. 😂
Appreciate the excellent content AND your down to earth, humble approach.
Not sure how I got this video but glad I did. I’m now subscribed.
great video! not everyday is perfect. but nice content. Straight to the point and concise and humble
Thank you my friend! Sometimes the bad days are the ones you remember best and they motivate you to work harder for sure. Glad you enjoyed the video
I think of short bows as close in accurate bows that shoot straight as a laser. Longbows are more like Medieval artillery with an arcing trajectory.
Dude it’s nuts the lack of drop off, it’s just a straight line!
@@dashrendar5320 Wait till you learn that flight archery bows are even more reflexed in shape than composite warbow/practical battlefield bow version.
Turkish bow is notorious for this. The warbow looks like boat shaped when unstrung. While the ones for flight archery looks like crescent when unstrung.
Even the typical turkish warbow when allowed to relax would return to the closed C shape. Opening a relaxed bow os always nerve racking
Common misconception of both bows there. Both bows were used for volley fire, and direct fire as needed.
@@ehisey Yeah, it's important to understand that after launch, the arrow does not remember what gave it the momentum it has.
Good stuff! Like that you posted this-the two types of bow def have a different feel-good to see you’re not afraid to experiment-with all that comes with that..
Yeah, I can potentially see that this kind of experiment of bows comparison can grow into a video series.
I love how humble you are, and that you even try answering every comment on your videos. Heart lighter than a feather ;)
Happily my friend, I appreciate your kind words as well so thank you
I'm glad you added the comments at the end, because this is the first full-length video of yours that I've seen, and I was beginning to wonder.
Great video, really appreciate what your doing, you have really motivated me to get stronger and more athletic. I just subscribed and have really enjoyed your videos , especially the bow videos.
Hey man thanks so much! So happy I could motivate in any way, glad you enjoy the videos and keep pushing my friend 💪🏹
Yes, definitely will keep pushing I currently have a 50lbs recurve hunting bow but hoping I can someday shoot much stronger bows something like yours.
Glad you put the video out there. Keep up the great work warrior.
Thanks man, much appreciated
The longbow is easier to build to a heavier weight, recurve bows seem to be about 10-15% more effective per poundage so a 120llb draw could be as powerful as a 150llb longbow, but in the time to make the recurve about five longbows could be built.
Bang for the buck they are fairly similar in the long run.
As for on days and off days, I shoot between 60-80 llb bows and somedays it's a breeze and I'm thinking, right let's make a 90llber then a few days later im struggling with 70llbs. There is no hard and fast rule and anyone who says ' I shoot 100llbs' yet they do not train ( I have to train, away from shooting) are basically fecking liars.
Great video keep the human element going cheers - addersbowman
Most certainly. I have seen the distance and speed test by other people, so I was pretty sure I knew what was going to happen, but I was very surprised how much better it actually did against the steel shield. That was very cool for me personally to see. also, thank you it’s just one of those things when you’re pushing yourself hard some days your body doesn’t want to do it with you 😂 thank you again for the kind words
@@dashrendar5320 yes I have to admit the way the recurve destroyed the metal shield was more than impressive. 🏹🎯
You are off on production rates by a significant amount. A fast poorly made composite takes about 6 months to make. A decent longbow can be made in a weekend, if not faster. A good quality composite was typically looking at 3 years, the best could take 5. Even going with the best backed longbows you would be hard pressed to take much more than a month for per bow.
@@ehisey I was being conservative, but yes it does take a very long time to build a composite bow, also a longbow will still shoot in the wet, whereas a composite is likely to fall apart.
we all have our off days my dude but being confident enough to post a video when you're not at your best proves that you're a real person and thats why we keep coming back, cos we can relate plus you're awesome and have helped me pick up some good archery tips ! i mainly shoot recurve bows so this was nice to see, stay humble and keep being you
Thank you most kindly my friend! The road to progress is littered with bad days, but always moving forward
@dashrendar5320 100% agree dude, I was having an off day today but after watching this video I'm going to go train for a bit
Let’s gooooo 💪🏹
Nice! the most expected video! Really great!
Thank you most kindly my friend
Good video, I am a Scottish Archer who lives in England, I've owned high poundage longbows many years ago,, I bought a recurve to teach my Son archery and taught myself thumb draw, buying a bare bow as my Son is a lefty, so nothing in your video surprised me, there is so much false history and myths around Longbows, basically, back in the day, they were cheap and they had lots of big lads shooting them, my experience from shooting both and given a choice, is recurve any day, its superior, pound for pound and also accuracy and range, especially if laminated, historical artwork, shows recurve were common in Britain in addition to self bows, please get proper arrows for the recurve, it really shows at longer ranges, maybe get a handmade bow made for you using traditional materials, I went to Hungary last summer and shot some there, stuck a video on my channel, for the memory, I'm more into music tbh. Also suggest experimenting with lower poundages and lighter arrows, using thumb draw, its easy to see why a Turkish Archer could be devastating against unarmoured opponents, once you get the hang of the technique, I now prefer.
Indeed. It was surprising to me how different it acted as a whole. Very unique and unforgiving haha. But I see how efficient. Strong and amazing they are, more training is needed 😂 but I will get there
awesome job and awesome inspiration
Very cool video man. Your my example for gym goals and bow goals dang your buff! Mad respect. Also i have heard it being more efficient in powering the arrow. I did hear they were historically lower poundage and lighter arrows I have heard
I have a bow like the recurved one in this video. I think I understand now what you mean about recurves having that harder initial pull. That has kept me really held up at 70lbs, pretty impressive that you can draw 135 like that
You say the arrows aren't really made for the recurve, but they look like they're doing fine to me. You said it could shoot lighter arrows without damaging it, but it seems to have plenty of power for driving that heavier arrow.
Thanks my friend! Yeah they did well but they could be optimized better for the bow certainly and would give a better result no doubt
Great video man. Keep up the good work and don’t be too hard for failing a shooter draw when shooting such heavy weight
Thanks for that my friend! Tomorrow is a new day! Just keep improving and getting stronger 💪🏹 always forward
I just started shooting my tiron 143@28 176@32 I love it Im working on getting to 28 right now but it is an amazing bow. Mr bows are so sweet. I also built a stringer for it that makes it a lot easier to string. Love all you do man!
Dude i have to have my wife help me string it 😂😂 it’s so brutal! Good luck on the journey, keep me posted how you progress
@@dashrendar5320 I will. After about two weeks I went from 20 inch pull to about 24 to 26 when Im fresh. Ask Mr bows about the stringer he use. I built mine off his design he may even have the photo of mine. It's just 4x4 cedar and some longboard wheels as leverage points.
Awesome! I will check that out
@@dashrendar5320 cool I still need a second hand but it's a lot less strain to string it
Lookup waist stringers. Our Aisatic heavy bow group uses them exclusively with MR bows. They give you more control and stability to string heavy highly recurved bows.
Hi, i did simillar experiment, but i used much, much lighter bows)), 60# longbow vs 60# assyrian. Assyrian was better in every way. My back hurts badly every time i watch someone shoots such a heavy bows) Great video, great strenght, good sense of humor!
You did great mate!! I shoot English longbows here in England. But....48-52#. I believe that in battles like Agincourt, etc, the arrows being shot high into the air and raining them down on the enemy, heavy arrows were of high importance. The bow just had to shoot the arrow the distance. The damage was done by the heavy arrows falling from a good height and hitting at a speed of 100mph. The arrows weren't shot at the enemy directly. The arrows raining down from a great height and the sky turning black, was reported by a French chronicler who whitnessed the battle. I thought your shooting was great though!! I have shooting videos on my channel @davesheppard8797, but not with monster bows like yours!!
Best wishes,
Dave.
From slings to recurve, maybe we will see crossbows too sooner or later hahaha Dash doing progress on a research tree
Haha that would be amazing….one I will get a 1200lb crossbow 😂😂
With the recurve, the first few inches feel heavier because you overcome the angle of the siyah, then it acts as a lever. very good videos!
Yeah that makes perfect sense. Thank you, glad you enjoyed the video
Years ago I read that the Huns used light bows which obviosly, as you proved, won't penetrate shields or armour. The Huns basically in undated an area with arrows until a man got hit somewhere unprotected and fell, exposing more legs and arms in the opening. They kept it up until they broke up the cohorts. I forget how Mongols defeated armored knights but you probably know. Nice video!❤
“Fudge!, gosh dang it!” The words of a true father 😂 I’ve had to retrain my vocabulary for my niece and nephew and say the same things
Hahaha yes indeed. It’s become habit at this point 😂😂 I don’t even realize that’s how I talk until I hear myself
i dont know why, but i really enjoy these videos for some reason! Good job !
Glad you enjoy them 😁
I Absolutely LOVE your content brother!
Thank you my friend! Glad you do
Congrats on 200k!!!
Thank you my friend
We all have bad days bud! Just get up and go again! Love your stuff, keep it up.
Thank you my friend. Will do 💪🏹
I'm an Asiatic bow archer, but your channel has really made me want to cross train in English longbow 🏹🤙🏿🤘🏿
The are both fantastic. But man. Aiming feels so different
@dashrendar5320 I bet. When I shoot my Asiatic, I thumb draw, shoot off my thumb, cant my bow, and use khatra to solve the riser affecting the arrows path. I've tried shooting standard Western style off of it, and I am hot garbage with my accuracy 🤣
I need to start doing more research to figure out what the shooting blueprint is for historical English longbows. I'd love to see a long form in-depth tutorial of your steps from draw to arrow impact 🏹🤙🏿🤘🏿
Hey Dash! One of my favourite videos to date for me, as an archer who is only on a 60lb longbow, it was fascinating to see the difference in performance of the bows 😮
Dont stress about small mistakes in form/video making, we all have those days 😅
Im personally more partial to the English longbow because of my heritage on my Mothers side, and ive always loved the look of the longbow.
Anyway great video as usual 👌
Hey thanks so Much my friend! It was super super fun to do. I was very disappointed with my performance.
Just felt weak that day, but i was shocked to see the recurve punch through so deep! I am partial to the longbow as well. Just had such a presence in fantasy as well
@dashrendar5320 Your most welcome 😊 For the record, I actually loved that you posted this video.
The fact that you knew you weren't shooting at your best and still posted it shows that despite all the training and development, you are human, and everyone has off days. It also shows that you are humble and honest witch I truly appreciate as a viewer 🙏🤝💪
Your positivity is contagious! Love it
We are here man. Keep going.
Btw the Skyrim background was a really good idea 😊
Haha thanks my friend! Can’t go wrong with Skyrim
Hey man you are willing to keep going and admit when you make a mistake, it shows real manliness. It is why I like your channel so much. Keep up the great work.
Thank you my friend truly. Will do
Awesome dude :) love your bracer gauntlet
I'm a recurve guy historically (0 longbow experience), so appreciate seeing your comparison! Great work! Also, always respect honesty and humility - stand up move there Dash!
Thanks my dude! Always forward 💪🏹
I had Turkish traditional bow ( Turko-mongol ) trough my experience i can say its the best bow you can get. Extremely straight shoots and huge penetration. Nearly strong as crossbows.
Yeah they are absolutely amazing!
"The days that feel like failure are the ones that build character" - I need to make a plaque with this inscription and hang it on the wall. 👍😅
Thank you for that! There an honor to hear
My kind of test!
That is insane Dash. I knew they were faster but didn’t expect that much more effective haha.
MR bows have a reputation to be very fast and your bow is no different to all the other tests I have seen.
So really good to get more data to confirm it.
I am so pumped now to get my MR Tiron (107@28) to test it as well!
Shame you lost some footage but great video nonetheless. Thank you for going ahead and posting it❤
Hey thanks man! I truly appreciate that. I was genuinely shocked as well. And the trajectory of it is just like a laser! Excited for you to get it as well; can’t wait to see your results
I mean, if you send the same arrow at a greater velocity... IIRC it's about 50% more energy on target per 15% of increase in velocity.
@@hjorturerlend 32.25% increase in kinetic energy for a 15% velocity increase (1.15 x 1.15). Realize, though, that shooting lighter arrows will give you faster arrow speed, but _less_ kinetic energy than shooting heavier arrows (because the increase in speed doesn't overcome the decrease in mass; basically, more arrow mass increases efficiency).
@@alexanderflack566 Good, I'm obviously rusty on my math. Still, point is that composite recurve bows are more efficient for their draw weight and size.
@@hjorturerlend This one is, but not all of them are. Different types of asiatic bow vary widely in performance.
Its nice to see im not the only one who has bad days with the heavy bows lol. Maybe you can remake the recurve vs longbow another time, but this video was great in its own way. And kinda the positive boost i could use rn. Just broke a bow i was building in the final stages of tillering😅
Nice! Yeah some days just suck haha. But you gotta have them sometimes. Sorry about the bow breaking, on to the next
It was a good video 😁 it's good to see everyone has those days
Yeah for sure 😂 whether it’s in life or in your hobby some days are just rough. They make the good days better though
The Hungarian József Mónus broke all records with his traditional laminated (wood, horn, string) recurve bow. He have now shot over 1 km with 70 lbs bow. I saw myself hitting a target 453 m away in a strong crosswind. (1/6 shot. 2 were about 30 cm from it.😮
1km? Whaaaaaaat???
@@endless3cho Google / Wikipedia show you all this. Other f.e.over Lajos Kassai, his world records of horseback archery...😉
I have a tip to shoot that recurve bow better. The string angle is more acute and may pinch when you draw it fully back. You can start off with a three finger draw but toward the end, slowly release your third bottom finger but not completely. It would be like a 2 1/2 finger draw. The release should be theoretically better since less contact.
A lot of variation within and between them. Based on the skill of the bowyer a lighter bow can outshoot a heavier one. Arrow weight matters too. English war arrows could be twice as heavy as Turkish war arrows. Manchu war arrows could be 40 inches long and weigh 1,800 grains from bows over 160 lbs. Joe Gibbs shot heavy 972 grain arrows from a 170lb yew bow and 170lb Tartar horn bow. The Tartar bow was about 6 fps faster and 20 yds farther. He did finger draw with both. Thumb draw with the Tartar, even at same draw length could have given him another 6-10 fps/20-30yds.
Love your humility mate and it's awesome to see your subs going up😊 In my opinion you are still criminally short of subs. Keep it up mate👊
That was still very cool and impressive! Thanks for sharing
Thanks my friend! The results still were pretty astounding truth be told. Just not as good as they could have been 😂
Well that is also what is so interesting. I wonder what that recurve will do once you have mastered it! I also wonder if the thumb technique with a suitable ring would make a difference on being able to push past that initial resistance. I myself practice asiatic archery, so I am even more curious to see where this goes. Good luck with training and don't overdo it!
i truly enjoy your content keep it up
Thank you my friend. Will do
Excellent, keep on keeping on. Take care.
I still really enjoyed the video. Thank you for posting it.
Happily, glad you enjoyed it
Great video would love to see more comparisons between the two boss and more besides
You should try an Eastern style composite bow, at a ‘warbow’ weight, for comparison. They have ‘siyahs’, stiff ears that extend from the end of the limb, which give leverage at the end of the draw, resulting in that ‘letting off’ effect that you mentioned. They would also be contemperaneous with the longbow…sort of ‘East’ vs ‘West’.
If I had all the money in the world I would love to get a bow from every style and every culture. One day….
Th MR Tiron is an eastern style recurve, specifically Serbian. It is what is classed as a "short ear", I suspect you are thinking of the "long ear" like the daoshao, Qing, and Conquest bows. Not the only long ears, but probably the most recognizable
The "Eastern" style bow already is used in Homer's Iliad when Odysseus tricks the suitors into a bow shooting match that ultimately leads to him killing all of them. They cannot even string the bow. A bard telling this story to a nobleman owning such a bow must have been the period's version of sitcom. The Iliad plays before 1,000 BCE.
The composite has another aspect, with our without the stiff ears in that is has a layer of strong animal horn glued to one side of the central layer of wood, that is hard to compress and wants to get back into its decompressed state. On the other side a layer of sinew is glued that is like very strong rubber band and when you pull the bow string gets extended but wants to return to its shorter length.
This gives the bow more speed in returning to its original form.
When I first read up on the composite (Scythian? Greek?) bow, my thoughts went back to the Iliad. The bow was retrieved from the treasure vault in Odysseus's palace. Odysseus, after a very long absence for war and an odyssee to get back home, was incognito and had to fight for his wife, estate, title.
The "important" suitors tried to string the bow. This failed. Then tried to warm it by a fire. They had heard about how to use one, but never owned one. The sinew can absorb moisture and this may distort the bow and reduce its strength.
Unstrung, the Greek bow was curved with the tips to hold the string forward, almost touching the handle. Naive people would not understand how this works. After, for centuries, Ottoman terrorists dominated the Middle East and used the bow in their armies, people started to call the bow "Turkish bow".
A few years after, I went on a visit to Istanbul. And visited a museum displaying all sorts of Ottoman army items. I expected Turkish bows on display and said to my companion that I expected unstrung Turkish bows in there to be displayed the wrong way around: handle to the point of the arrow and ears back.
And, yes, that was exactly how they were displayed. At the time.
With these bows, Turkish archers held matches, e.g. who could shoot the farthest. They had special light arrows for this and really very long distances have been recorded.
It may just be me, but i times i think i see you smiling when you speak about the bows and all, you must be having lots of fun!
I have a European laminated shortbow just like that, I love it, but it would have cost as much as 10 longbows to make in 1500AD Europe.
Good luck keeping it laminated.
Still a great video, man that recurve has some punch. 😮
Thanks. And yeah it does! It’s crazy
I love how you mentioned, that the force builds up at a shorter draw length in the case of the recurve bow. That is the physical reason behind it's higher efficiency. If you make a diagram that's horizomtal axis is draw length, and the vertical axis is the drawing force (it can be easily calculated from draw weight), and you mark the points for each draw length the measured draw force, then the energy will be the area below these points limited by the two axis and a paralel vertical axis at the positon of your maximum draw length. Basicly, if the force builds up earlier the higher the energy will be.
Is there any difference between longbows and warbows or is it just the name?
It’s the draw weight. Anything over 80lbs is considered a warbow generally
@@dashrendar5320 thank you
Good video still! Good data. Thanks for sharing
Thank you my friend, glad you enjoyed it
If this guy is in opponent team in Weapon era during Internet Apocalypse, then we are doomed 💀
I started out with western recurve bows and did it for years, but once I got into the technique on the Asian bows there was no going back. Hope to see more videos of you and the recurve bow..
It occurs to me that the effectiveness of the English (or Welsh 😁) longbow came from mass formation of archers. Whilst individual arrows might not do much damage unless hitting a weak point, the mass pounding of thousands of them arriving repeatedly at a rapid rate would be irrestible. It is intersting that the idea of huge arcs of arrows fired into the sky, as per Olivier's Henry V movie, is not borne out by contrmprary records that all show direct, horizontal firing.
Fascinating stuff. Keep em coming.
great vid thanks
First of all, I always appreciate a practical test. It's easy to be a keyboard warrior. 😁
The test itself didn't surprise me, the recurve is definitely a superior shape when it comes to bows. Most of the time I think.
What I'm wondering is would a lighter arrow shot at higher speed, a longer draw length, meaning thumb draw, be more deadly.
An idea for you to try 😁
We need more tests like this one.
Yeah I gotta train to use a thumb draw first 😂
Another great video. Keep practicing so we can see what els you can do with it.
Will do my friend!
Thanks for beeing human ❤ loved the video I am starting archery myself with a recurve Takedown bow of 40 pounds from Aliexpress and I am loving it
If you graph force (draw weight) against draw length the area under the curve is stored energy. That means that the closer to a flat line the draw weight is the more energy the bow can store. Longbows have a curve that gets progressively steeper, so the last few inches of draw provide the vast majority of energy storage, recurve is more like a fairly steep straight line so the last half of the draw does store more energy than the first half, but not as extreme as a longbow. A compound is nearly like a flat line with a dip at the end so they can store an immense amount of energy even at low draw weights.
Even with bows we hunted with I've noticed the longbow draws smoother for me up to 80 pounds. And it's more forgiving. The recurve is pretty and it can be fast. But it doesn't forgive or feel as smooth as the longbow
For me personally it feels the same way
Have you thought about training with a thumb draw on recurve bows? Obviously shouldn't start with such a heavy-weight bow, but it might be an interesting learning experience, definitely a great way to build thumb tendon and ligament strength.
Yeah I have thought about it but have not yet taken the time to try and learn: would be fun though
@@dashrendar5320 my recommendation would be to start with a thumb ring if you start with a bow on the heavier side.
Dude id love to see you start getting into more eastern archery!
That’s the goal! To add it in more 😁
Dude you did show the result, and would have been same even if you shot perfect. If everything went the way we wanted we would never grow threw it. It was impressive 👍🏻💪
Great video, great channel, thank you very much for putting this together and sharing your knowledge, this was very cool, I will chalk this up to a real live test, this is a great test, do not put yourself down at all, these are excellent results, specifically because as you put it not at the top of your game, you should be proud of yourself, because you are juggling everything else you mentioned, again great video excellent test results, real warfare/ combat you will be sleep deprived, malnourished, your muscles will be aching and sore, as an old instructor said to me it's three am and pissing down outside, do you still want to be a commando!? You haven't eaten in days, do you still want to ba commando!? You just rucked 25 miles, do you still want to be a commando!? God Bless
I hate having filming problems lol, awesome video
Thanks man! Haha. The pain is real
The data is still valid in a comparative sense since you were having the same equally bad day with both bows. Also, this was still a great video even if you were off or lost footage. You were still able to share what you observed and provide information I am not in a situation to gather myself.
Thank you my friend! It’s true both were not at full strength but even so the mechanical advantage of the recurve showed through 💪🏹
Wow. You are literally fitness goal for 95% men out there, myself included, but you struggling to pull those bows really gives context on what kind of monsters the medieval professional army bowmen/steppe horse archers were. They must have been smaller framed than us, and subject to dirt poorer nutrition and yet rained hell on the enemy. Thank you for the video. I love your down to earth, humble presentation too.
I know an MR bow when I see one. Misko really makes the best horse bows and I love my 55lbs Tiron
Yeah it’s a beast!
We have been waiting for this for a long time
Yeah sorry I was not in better form that day. Will revisit soon! 💪🏹
Bad days give more contrast to the good days, I suppose, hah!
Either way, nicely done, that was some cool result in the end.
That makes me wonder though, which max draw weight would be good for a mounted archer with a recurve bow?
Haha indeed they do, man, I can’t imagine doing anything near that on horseback. Could probably manage 100lbs personally but that’s it and that would be a struggle. But i was not raised on it like people of old
@@dashrendar5320 true, true. I imagine it to be pretty tricky to do a good pull without solid footing, especially while riding
That....gave me a good - if not a better - perspective. Thank you.
Where did you get your recurve from? Awesome video, doesn't matter if it was an off day or you had technical issues, a video from you is always epic
Mr bows its called the tiron
You should try Manchu bow, often considered as the "longbow of Composite bow family". Historical arrows used by the archer using the bow can be as heavy as 1500 grain. Even higher.
Not to mention the maximum draw length due to the shape of bow siyah can be as long as 35 inch.
I would love ALL the bows haha. But money
@@dashrendar5320 Indeed, Grozer biocomposites for example were basically the most affordable option for these historical composite bows design. Around 300-600 USD
But yeah most authentic composite bows cost around like 1200 USD if not more.
In all honestly, I would like to see if those short Korean recurve bows being used to shoot heavy arrow and see if the efficiency is the same or worse or higher than longbow of comparatively same draw weight. Since this is about to test if geometrical construction of a bow can influence the output, I think the cheap fiberglass option wouldn't matter.
Probably the most authentic feeling Manchu bow on the market at the moment is the Yarha II from Alibow, $200 fibreglass bow. Unfortunately it only goes up to 80# but that’s still warbow material
@@tomp6548 Yeah let's just hope Dash Rendar notice that. Even if we solely goes by experimenting if the shape of the bow would matter, when pitted against longbow with comparable draw weight. I think it would still make good experiment, even if the manchu bow is not made out of horn and sinew.
Oh that’s not much at all! I will check that out
I hunt wild with traditional bows in Australia. The most I've ever used is 100lbs, but I've shot mostly recurves and horsebows. I have a Hunn bow, Magyar bow, Old Scythian and a Turkish bow. Even though they're all around 70lbs they shoot and feel very differently. The Magyar, Hunn, and Turkish all have syahs, but they're all slightly different, and even between the Magyar and the Hunn, which have the same syah, the Hunn shoots differently because it's asymetric, which transfers a lot less stress to your hand. Of all my bows, I love the visual of the Magyar, but the Turkish is so much fun to shoot. Hard to explain. It's just Fun! ;-)
Because Turkish bow is simply based on a bow from Renaissance era. It got basically "two siyahs", one is near the belly and the other is the tip. One is called kasan the other is siyah. So more evolved design, in contrast Magyar bow is double curve for it's belly and this is where most of the energy is stored, while the siyah is long but it only has one lever. Turkish bow, with the siyah and kasan, basically produce two if not three lever torques.
Ah.. cool! thanks for the info @@cool06alt I'd really like to try a Japanese bow.
The longbows recovered from the Mary rose shipwreck have their tips curved forwards. It is thought they were built by submerging the bow ends in boiling water and then placing them inside a special vice whilst they were carefully bent to shape. These bows have been shown to loose arrows at faster speeds than ordinary longbows.
Hey Dash, i may got an Video Idea for you. What about a tutorial "How i make my Arrows for a Warbow" ?
Would be so interesting to see that.
I really enjoy your Content. Keep going my Friend.
I actually did one a while ago but a few people have asked. Maybe it’s time for another one
Trajectory alone is a good indicator of power, and that goes for any projectile (so long as you’re comparing apples to apples). Nice vid.
Hey Dash! I'm an asiatic bow archer and occasionally shoot the yumi in kyudo, but your videos really got me interested in the longbow! Any tips on where to begin? Thanks!
Well for good longbows in would check out “fairbow” to start. Let me know what other questions you may have
@@dashrendar5320 I just looked at some products from fairbow, as for the draw weight and length, do you recommend making it the same as my usual bow? I'm guessing that it would be harder for me to draw since I always use thumbdraw
Where did you get your arm guard from, my last one got shredded when I was practicing with my 55lb recurve
3 rivers archery my friend