Well yeah because its a good satire only stupid people mias thw point but atarship troopers hit the point where there are soo many people missing the point, i dont think its good satire, even in the best of cases its mediocre, yeah there are a lot of stupid people but there is a limit
@peterrj1973 One of the key themes of the movie is that it's so easy for your average "citizen" to fall for nationalistic, imperialist, and fascist propaganda. People getting wrapped up stupidly in the anti-bug fervor is the point.
@@SupermarketZombies the thing is if its the main point of the movie only really really stupid people dlnt get it, or is not that reslly well conveyed and it either took some grease or googling
I think a relevant thing about Starship Troopers is that it's based on source material that was presenting all of that stuff completely sincerely with no irony at all. Paul Verhoeven just too the Heinlein book and put it directly on screen and just added a sarcastic eyebrow raise. It's not just internally a mockery of fascist rhetoric, its very existence is a direct mockery of real-world fascist rhetoric. (edit: disregard this first paragraph. I'm stupid.) As for claiming it's not obvious enough... I don't know what to tell you. All of Verhoeven's work is like that. If most people watch Robocop and walk away feeling like it's just a cool movie about a robot cop then that's a failing in the viewers media literacy. You can go as blatant and over the top as Warhammer's Imperium of Man and you *still* get idiots unironically acting thinking that it's a good thing.
Or, Jojo is a story about cultural degenerates undermining The Eternal Reich, and led to the victory of The Jews. Anything can be misinterpreted willfully or inadvertently.
@@christophergreen6595 Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun A man whose allegiance Is ruled by expedience Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown "Nazi, Schmazi!" says Wernher von Braun
I actually think this quote is pretty stupid. For starters, giving roles for peace is …well it’s kinda odd and would force many people who might deserve such an award to not get it. Also, Kissinger wasn’t the first controversial individual. Prior to him WOODROW WILSON got the award…in 1919…after he basically destroyed world security and civil liberties around d the world. After Kissinger came two Irish women, whoose peace efforts arguably didn’t end up doing much, and prob could be said to be naive (seriously they did not advocate for British to leave Ireland), then of course came everyone’s Myanmar leader! Political sanities works anywhere! You just gotta be aware of who you’re making fun and how to do so. It’s why snl failed so much in the Trump years while other comedians did well, because they could adapt to making fun of a literal buffoon white supremacist .
The central satirical element of Starship Troopers ultimately lies in the fact that fascists feel about real human beings the way the humans of the Federation feel about fictional bug monsters. Yes, there are the additional elements of fascism within the Federation itself, the fact that the Federation citizens are (mostly) propagandized into their hate, and the implication that the humans may have struck first. But ultimately when real life fascists ask the question of how anyone can align with the bug monsters in the movie, the appropriate response should ALWAYS be to point out that the bugs are fictional, whereas they (the real life fascists that is) feel precisely the same way about the bugs as they do real life human beings (but only certain human beings of course!). Rico: "I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill 'em all!" Andy Ogles: "You know what? So, I think we should kill ’em all, if that makes you feel better." That's it, that's the point. Regardless, all blessings to Verhoeven for providing us with an eternal litmus test.
Exactly. The bugs are just Fictional beasts. The Chaos Demons or Tyranids are just Fictional. The real evil are the humans who treat other humans as though they are Bug Monsters or Chaos Demons.
The point in the book is also that it's bad to see the bugs as monsters. They're clearly intelligent, with the capacity to strategise, and interplanetary travel ability. At the beginning of the book, the bugs are also allied with a third species, showing they must be capable of diplomacy.
Which is funny compared to the book where the federal service says it doesn't matter if your are blind & missing all your limbs they will find a federal service job for you. In the book all civilians have a constitutional right to attempt to become a citizen & you dont need to join the military to become one. Fascists will point to only the militaristic points of literature while leaving out the rest.
you guys think like this because right wing guys think commies have no soul and you are not human? because that is not talking about all humans... just commies.
Nah, there is 100% a point where you haven't exaggerated enough to make something an effective satirical criticism. SST may have been over that line when it came out, but the material conditions have shifted and now it's hardly a satire of fascism, it's just what those freaks believe.
@@themightymcb7310 If its too exaggerated its not satire anymore. Good satire needs to be subtle enough for you to question if its actually satire or not.
The point of the movie is that it dosn't MATTER if the Bugs caused the destruction of Benos Ares, even the usage of a legitimate threat to create a fascist state is still a deathride for society.
@@NeoFryBoythey weren't, and aren't fascist. The system was in place before the asteroid, but that's not relevant. Federation is not a fascist state - that's Verhoven's faliure to understand the book.
@@jakubfabisiak9810 there’s a valid argument to be made that the book Federation isn’t fascist, probably closer to some kind of minarchy with limited democracy perhaps, however the movie Federation has noticeable fascist tendencies and ideological dogmas.
@@YokaiX the movie version still isn't fascist. There is no segregation, or discrimination for civilians for one - Rico's father is filthy rich, and makes no secret that he doesn't think being a citizen is worth the risk (in the book, he later joins up as well). But pay close attention to Rasczak. First, he explains that only citizens having a right to vote is not a "reward" given to them for supporting the state, because "voting is violence" - it's a responsibility entrusted to those who have proven they're willing to shoulder it, even at personal risk. Later, when Rico mentions joining up, Rasczak doesn't say "great, join up, serve the Federation" - he says "figuring things out for yourself is the one true freedom you have - use that freedom". There's a bit of a disconnect between the movie, and the book, because in the book the Federation takes utmost care to avoid casualties. At every turn it is made clear, that service is entirely volountary. The film makes use of some over-the-top sequences, which is why there is a fan theory that the Federation intentionally uses bullshit tactics, to deliberately keep the casualties high. But even when the "mission to P" where Dizzy gets killed had a low survival probability, and the brass knew it, but had to send it to verify P as a viable target, they still tried to rescue the unit. Also, there is no state-controlled media. The casualty lists are made public, and the Federation immediately corrects its strategy for dealing with the arachnids. Compare with movies like "Soldier" (with Kurt Russel), or V for Vendetta. As for the "ideological dogmas" - what dogmas? Concern for the survival of the human race isn't an ideological dogma. There is propaganda, to be sure, but it's only directed at the arachnids, not "whoever isn't with us, is against us".
It's easy to miss but the bug meteor that was launched at Earth was a response to Morman colonial projects into bug-held space. The Morman thing is only mentioned briefly at the start of the film for a few seconds in a news clip. The attack was a warning to Earth to stay the fuck out. And it was used as justification for genocide. Earth fired first with attempted colonialism
It was one of the first things that started to make me question the movie. I was like "Wait why are all the people who live in a Latin American country white blonde hair blue eyes?"
It astonishes me to no end that people still don't get that: ST is a propaganda movie from the future. Of course the "heroes" are all good looking. It tells you: Become a fascist and you'll be good-looking, too. It's a recruitment vehicle.
Yeah people forget that as a viewer of ST, you’re watching the movie through an info screen, as if the movie was made by The Federation itself. I think a lot of people missed the point of the “would you like to know more?” and visible menu scrolling.
Wish I'd seen this comment sooner. I was trying to break this down for people further down in the comments, no matter how simple you make the little pieces and how neatly you make them fit together people just can't understand. "BUT BUGS SCARY, RICO HANDSOME, HOW SATIRE STUPID MAN?'' Like arguing with a caveman hitting himself in the head with a rock repeatedly and eventually the rock says ''you know you're right he shouldn't be doing this''
@@firstandlastname6194Yeah. I don't think it logistically possible to make a movie more obviously satirical than Starship Troopers already is. At some point you have to acknowledge that some people are just too dumb.
The point with the bugs throwing an asteroid at Earth was supposed to be the bugs acting in self defense against humans approaching on their territory. Movie doesn't explain it well and it being a false flag would probably have been better.
It wasn't even a false flag, it was just a natural disaster. Early in the movie you see an in-universe propaganda piece about how high tech and impenetrable the new defense lasers are, only for Buenos Aires to be hit like 25 minutes later. Its pretty clear to me that the "joke" is that its just some random asteroid, nothing to do with the bugs, that hits the planet and the new (presumably very expensive) laser grid didn't do squat. So the government blames the bugs to distract people from asking why the hell the lasers didn't do their job.
Klendathu was on the other side of the galaxy (as we see in a galaxitic map shortly in the film). No way the bugs hurled a meteor that hit Earth from so far out! The more likely cause is: 1. Random happenstance. The Federation I'm sure has the technology though to blow it up before it hits Earth, but likely wanted to allow it. Great tradgeties are a great way to build up fervor. 2. Inside Job, planned. Either way, Federation is responsible for the deaths of millions on Waeth before even starting the War with rhe Bugs.
I read starship troopers and was horrified. That shit is an unironic fascist manifesto. Then I watched the movie and it was literally the exact same setting being shown in a realistic way to prove exactly how fucking insane the book is.
Well, that's the thing. Inasmuch as there's any philosophy or politics in the book, it's not a discussion. It's a lecture. Nobody challeneges the viewpoints of people extolling the virtues of a system they benefit enormously from.
Ah the Starship Troopers novel. I do not believe Heinlein was trying to be fascist, but he was unabashedly a proponent of militarism, which fascism relies on -- so I definitely don't blame anyone for getting bad vibes from him. I dunno, here's some random context: 1: Robert Heinlein was a Navy veteran between the world wars. He couldn't serve the Navy anymore in WW2, so instead he got a job as a shipbuilder. He was very much on the "this machine kills fascists" side of things 2: In the movie, you need to serve in the military to get citizenship. This is not the case in the novel, where you can get citizenship through lots of mundane things like asteroid mining 3: In real life, the Merchant Marines were denied veteran status despite operating in WW2 warzones (and suffering MORE deaths per-capita than the rest of the Marine Corps). Robert Heinlein hated this, and the Starship Troopers novel contains a whole section protesting it
So many people miss the point of the book. It's not fascistic. It's more a civic-nationalist militaristic bughunt. Heinlein was pretty damn progressive for his time, too. I like his writings, and as a vet/brat I see a lot of military cultural nuance that most people miss. @@TARINunit9
I read the book too. The Terran Federation makes zero effort to do diplomacy with the Bugs, and we know the Bugs do diplomacy because of the Skinnies, an alien race allied with them that the Terran Federation literally stages a terrorist attack against to terrify them into neutrality or switching sides (I'm not sure which). Also, there is one exception to the "Insane Generals" thing and that's Omar Bradley.
@@pancakes8670 Absolutely, they used decpetion, laser weapons, and sound tactics. It wasn't too vague either imo, there was a lot of cutting remarks on the difference between the worker and leadership castes.
The right misses the point of Rage Against the Machine, the band thats openly anarchistic. I'm not sure you can always blame the artist in these sorts of equations.
"F*** you, take the jab if They tell you. F*** you, take the jab if they tell you! F*** you! Take the jab when they TELLLL you!! F*** YOU! YOU'LL TAKE THE JAB WHEN WE TELL YOU!!! No EXERCISE, just stay INSIDE! We'll let you out for BLM and gay pride!" Anarchistic, my @$$! 😂
YES. Another person in the comments who understands. As I said in my other comment the movie both depicts a ridiculous society and itself is obviously ridiculous. So many people in the comments are literally caught up on what Vaush is arguing against. People are falling for the glorification of the Federation in the aesthetic of the film that is obviously meant to be over the top, they are literally falling for *fake* propaganda that is obviously satire. And its already been pointed out to them - that's what stuns me.
I feel like the biggest problem with anti-fascism, anti-war, anti-capitalism, etc. type satire is that the people who need the message won't understand it and the people who don't need the message will understand.
Sadly always so, the beauty of fascism is many who hold fascistic ideals don't realize why it is wrong, or it is in their base nature what they enjoy being.
Yes and no. It's variable. It's very difficult to get a person to change their mind and critically examine their ideas when they've tied their sense of belonging to a community and their sense of identity to maintaining those ideas. The biggest commonality in people who do have a drastic change in their beliefs is finding themselves in a position where they are independent of the social group which reinforces their ideas. This is why we see things like people becoming atheists when they go off to college. They are safe to explore different ideas and explore their own ideas critically. So, things like Starship Troopers are important to this process. The 14 year old Nick Fuentes fan might not get that the movie is mocking them in particular. But they are still registering the critique by internalizing the media. Think of it as planting a seed. There's something there. They might not consciously register it. But it's there all the same. Now it just needs to right conditions to germinate. Revisiting these materials can be a major part of the deconstructing process. This stuff happens for formerly religious people and it happens for political extremists too. Point being, changing minds is a process. Ideas and contradictions accumulate. Not everyone will find themselves forced to face them head on. But some will. So we need this kind of thing out there even if it's not immediately apparent that it does anything but give people in the know a wry sense of self satisfaction.
@@VecheslavNovikov I disagree. I've seen countless characters who are blatantly designed to be satire (like Steven Armstrong, Tyler Durden, Patrick Bateman, Caesar, Walter White) yet the audiences revere them and say they were right. I've seen Metal Gear Solid and Bioshock show up on "top conservative games" lists. You can make the most blatantly obvious work of satire that has the villains looking into the camera and telling us they're the bad guys, and there would still be audience members who missed the point. The problem isn't how the message is delivered, it's a problem with audience media literacy.
Helldivers literally slaps the satire against your face and rubs its all over you over and over again while explicitly repeating the wiki page for "satire" word for word.
Within the movie it was stated that the humans started it by invading the bugs territory and errecting a colony. We all know what human colonists do to locals once they have the upper hand, the bugs were completely right to react to the invasion the way we would react to an invasion as well. The meteor was just part of an ongoing conflict.
@@kuhj278Or to rephrase that, the federation decided not to stop a privately organised invasion of it's citizens into the territory of another species. If you try to privately organise an invasion into a neighbouring country, you will see that your government can and will put a stop to private endevours against their interest.
Stuff like JoJo Rabbit and the Producers are better at making fun of fascists/Nazis because their portrayals are so deliberately silly and camp that it is impossible for fascists to appropriate it. It makes them look effeminate (which they hate) and incompetent (which they don’t want to admit).
Yeah. The point of Troopers is that you're supposed to point and laugh at it as "Haha, this is what fascists think of themselves" But obviously this means that when actual fascists see it they think "Wow! that's literally me"
Paul Verhoven literally said "I wanted to make a movie so painfully obvious in its satire that everyone who understands it lives in perpetual psychological torment inflicted on them by all the people who don't"
Regarding the soviet strategy, Military History Visualised has a video on how the soviets were better at strategic planning (big planning and logistics) while germans were better at a tactical level, in a nutshell: this gave them an edge early in the war, but later soviets just started playing the germans because they could preddict german movements, while germans were too busy micromanaging entire fronts. It is more flashy speaking of single units flanking forts and that, but while that was happening, 2 soviet armies were already all around them closing in for the kill
This also relates to the myth of the technologically superior Germans. The Germans focused on fancy, new weaponry (V1, V2, jets, putting more armor on tanks), while the Allies focused on more boring but practical tech (radar, sonar, logistical, and churning out as many tanks as they can, only incrementally upgrading them if it didn't slow production). In Starcraft terms, one side rushed the enitre tech tree at the expense of unit numbers. The other rushed key techs, but then focused on churning the units out. I can even add, if they're playing Terran, the one advanced tech they rushed after getting enough tanks and getting the seige mode upgrade was nuclear silos.
There is a bit of truth on the technological advantage to the germans, they did inherit a lot of scientists and institutions from the Weichmar republic, but, even with all those advantages, their incompetency and schitzophrenic fascistic ideas were the factors that threw all those advantages to the garbage. I woudl suggest recognising that factor would be advantageous for us while discussing with fascists, how even with all those points in their favour, they failed misserably Pretty much they started with multiple reseacrh slots and still lost@@CSXIV
It seems reasonable to conclude that the higher level stuff being done poorly is due to moustache in chief taking over and fucking it up. I heard a story about some German engineers who got hold of a soviet tank and were laughing at the shoddy craftsmanship of it. "These armour plates don't even meet, this bit isn't centred properly" etc. But then they were reminded that the Soviets could pump out dozens of these for every one German tank, with the same crew.
The book for which the movie was based on was very much pro-capitalism and military while not being pro-fascism. The director took everything and dialed it up to 11 and the left adopted it as a full on satire of everything bad with the right. Its why you can watch it as a satire and as a non-satire and enjoy it. Truly a unique moment in cinema.
by the time of the invasion the soviets were already producing more tanks per month. The issue is mainly that they were recently produced and not already ready on the front, as well as limited training time, and supply chain issues due to losing ground and being just outnumbered on the field at any given time. It was kind of a snowballing effect. Once they stabilized, and the active numbers were equal, it turned around permanently.
The Soviets were actually outnumbered initially. By the time they had overwhelming numerical superiority they already had modernized their tactics and ramped up war production. So the stories of massive unarmed human waves are largely a myth, or at least exaggerated.
No, they were not. They even had significant more tanks and artillery. I wonder from where you got that nonsense from. BUT they were not in proper defensive positions anywhere but they did nothing! NOT ONE THING! And why? Because good old uncle Joe did not want to provoke the Nazis in any shape or form. Dictatorships are awesome, right? Hiding the deployment of over 3M man at your borders is not possible, not now and not then. The only "surprise" about this attack was when it start and nothing else! Like with Hitler, it was Stalins fault that they did bleed so much in the first phase of this war and the purges and restructuring did not the improve the overall situation either! And these were ordered by whom? Good old uncle Joe!
IIRC that's incorrect, the Soviets always had a numerical superiority over the Germans across the front, just not the insane 10:1 types that got reported in German memoirs. There's quite a good essay from a few years ago criticising the RUclipsr TIK on this subject (I found it be googling "TIK debunked russian numbers ww2"), which goes decently into the weeds of different casualty and manpower estimates, and what they're actually measuring.
2:57 This is exactly what's happened with Warhammer 40K. The company GW doesn't support the Imperium, but they've been marketing them as unironic heroes for decades. GW can't let go of their brand babies, so none of the objectively less-crazy factions get the spotlight. They also don't allow any human faction to persist outside of the Imperium, sending the message that fascism is a valid way of keeping humanity alive; your only alternative is Chaos, who inevitably end up getting gunned down by the Imperium.
same problem warcraft has, even when within the story is the logical conclusion that the races should unite and embrace diversity, they keep on with the cheap drama and going back to the status quo.
I think the older grungy 40k artwork does such a better job at portraying how ugly the imperium is. In contrast almost every official artwork of gullimenn makes him look like an archangel
Solution: do not engage with nerd shit (I'm kidding, don't worry. Also it would be cool if they had a rival human faction that had like, idk, any of millions of other cool ideas of fantasy societies)
Its harder for it to say the humans are bad in wh because everybody is bad, the imperium, the transhumanist of mars, the elf like creatures, i was really into the lore i forgot the name i dont know why, the point everyobody is bad, tho is true that the less bad ones are the weabo otakus of space and the good eldar, but the imperium at least as far as i have seen in the last book i saw, the revival of guilliman, they worked with the good eldar and cole, which i mean cole is a bad person but the good eldars arent, they try their best, i mean if slanesh was to claim my soul i wouldnt know what to do exactly
Missing the satire in the "Starship Troopers" novel could perhaps be forgiven, but anyone who missed the (imo, overtly) satirical tone of the Hollywood film adaptation needs some remedial classes in Film Analysis and Critique (perhaps starting with "Learning to distinguish Reality from Fiction").
The original novel isn't satirical. Heinlein explicitly described it as a reflection of his political beliefs. The movie is a satire of the book, not a straight adaptation.
People aren’t failing to understand satire. They are failing to understand that a man who claimed to make an adequate satire failed in that regard when you take a moment to actually look at it.
I saw some memes saying "the socialists are siding with the bugs again, what idiots. Can't they see the bugs are attacking and eating people?." And like...Yeah; Super Earth is the antagonist in the story of helldivers. They genocided the bugs until they realized they could factory farm them to make space oil; then they enslaved them and genetically modified them. Then when they broke out of containment, we started genociding them again. If you squint a little, you can even come to the realization that super earth is the one causing the spread of the bugs. They don't have any way to get from planet to planet, and the rich of super earth benefit by throwing people at the bugs. They get to do a fascism, cull the bug population, and get space oil without having to go through the effort of farming the bugs.
@@toast47178 the intro is a little cheeky, but is not OBVIOUS. the tv ads were more obvious about it. and after that, is just thousand of hours being cool killing bugs so you turn your brain off.
The Soviet “Human Wave” is a piece of propaganda. At the start of the war there was something akin to a “human wave” due to the sheer speed of German advances making it hard to prepare proper defenses, but for most of the war the tactics were Defense in Depth tactics for the most part, which proved to be highly effective against German Spearheads.
As for the human wave thing: Stalin specifically wrote an order to execute officers who used actual human wave tactics, calling them traitors for wasting their men. But a lot of the younger officers were simply not too experienced with advanced infantry tactics as their Germans counterparts were, partially a result of the purge. The whole human wave propaganda comes from the early years of the war when a lot of Soviet commanders would execute delaying actions on the Germans, only to get outmaneuvered and either sleughtered or captured by the Germans because they couldn't use their aerial reconnaisance. It also ties into the actual fact of that a lot of Soviet equipment was badly manufactured, and that the average Soviet division had poor supply planning (**in addition** to their supply lines being cut) - so tank counter strikes for the Soviets in 1941 went disastrously despite their numerical superiority, simply due to the fact they couldn't repair or refuel their vehicles. The Soviets had plenty of industry, it was in fact Stalin's biggest priority in the 1930s, just the sheer amount of semi-automatic rifles produced dwarfs anything the Germans made (who still used bolt action rifles because they couldn't equip themselves with those). The Soviets had problems staffing their factories, who employed people that under normal circumstances would not have been factory workers, like former farmers.
Something I want to point out about Germany vs. Russia in WW2 was, despite winning, the Russians did an absolutely piss poor performance. The only reason they won was because Germany made a lot of key logistical and strategic mistakes. The sheer amount of death and destruction to Russia was due to their terrible equipment, poor training, and overall poor tactical and strategic planning. Their victory can be described as the biggest fluke in military history. If Germany hit Russia with only a bit more force and were more coherent, Russia would’ve fallen.
Bear in mind too: The Soviet Union had to move nearly their entire industrial base east to prevent them falling into the N@z1s’ hands. Whole factories were packed up and moved hundreds of kilometres east. Yet, the Red Army was still able to arm every soldier at least competently(no, the soldiers weren’t waiting to pick up a gun from other dead men) Their commanders were fairly competent, barring some idiots. It is said the USSR had 3 armies during WWII: 1941, 1942-43, and 1944-45. If you were a soldier in the Red Army, you would see your army not only fight for its life, but incorporate very hard lessons into new tactics to defeat an enemy who fundamentally wanted to wipe your people off the map.
The Maginot Line worked flawlessly. The Germans avoided it because it couldnt be breached. The Allies knew this and therefor positioned the French and British armies on the Belgian border. Germany attacking through Belgium was the only sane option and everyone knew it. No one was surprised. Hell, Belgium learned of the German invasion plans ahead of time and filed an official protest. The reason why the Allies failed in Belgium wasnt because the Maginot Line failed. It was because the French and British did not use their tanks according to modern updated tactics. If prepared defenses doesnt work, then how come Ukraine failed in breaching Russian positions last summer? Let me make this point clear: The Maginot Line worked perfectly. The Allies plan was to destroy Germany in Belgium all along.
As I understand it, the original plan was for French and British forces to be stationed _within_ Belgium ahead of time. But that went out the window after Belgium left its alliance with France, in protest of Paris and London's decision to abandon Czechoslovakia to Hitler in 1938. So when the German offensive began, the French and British rushed into Belgium to try and meet them, which left them vulnerable to German armoured spearpoints punching through their lines. Another factor was also that the Allies had assumed that the Ardennes would be impossible for German tanks to quickly traverse, which turned out to be incorrect, meaning the Germans were able to move far faster than anticipated and met the Allied forces long before they expected them to appear.
@@BlaaankOwl The Germans had several plans. All of which had the Allies win during the wargames. But Hitler then approved of the Ardennes approach. The plan was to send the army through the Netherlands and draw the Allies into Belgium. And then move the concentrated force of armor through the Ardennes forest and cut off the Allies from supplies. The plan worked but not flawlessly. The Germans got gridlocked on the narrow roads through the forest and they were spotted by French scouts. But French high command thought it was a diversion and took the bait and went for the main army. The result was the Germans moving in behind the Allies and the British being forced to fall back to Dunkirk. German reports from the battles speak of incredible French heroism and stubborness, fighting like devils. 90% of what people think is WW2 history is more or less BS.
I literally just watched Starship Troopers for the first time tonight and loved it so damn much. The timing of that with this upload is an insane coincidence.
4:17 and the British. 50% of their gdp was dedicated to the war effort which was more than any other power. Willingness to die for a cause doesn't equal commitment to it
Its not even that. The people don't get to choose how much they sacrifice. They get drafted and rationed, mostly against their will. The only question is can the political establishment keep the war popular enough to not get voted out or couped. Its got nothing to do with determination.
Common myth that Soviets were militarily incompetent and relied on mass wave tactics. When the battlefield is built like Iowa and you aren’t fully industrialized any country in that position would look “incompetent”
I think the funniest shit i ever seen from Starship Troopers was from a guy in youtube comments saying that Buenos Aires was an inside job. I laughed my ass off.
Inside job no but why do think they show the scene where the ship hits an asteroid in deep space (therefore altering the trajectory) and then Buenos Aires is hit? Bc the terrans caused it and instead blamed the bugs to cover their ass and gain support for war.
You mean the scene that showed equality, egalitarianism? Zero sexual overtones, and no one being objectified and they are all respected? How, fascistic.
I first saw this as a young adult, I wasn't very tuned in but a big clue was that they had to enlist and go to war to be able to vote. I feel like anyone should get how weird that idea was.
So technically/well actually, the Soviets had in WW2, pretty good tactics overall, especially starting around 1942 once they had a breather to realized the problem. Little known fact, the Germans actually out numbered the Soviets on the eve of the invasion in 1941, and encircled a large number of Soviet troops by virtue of the fact of how forward deployed and poorly prepared their forces overall. In addition to strategic issues like not being allowed to take initiative and withdraw in a timely fashion. The Winter counteroffencive of 42 that drove the germans away from Moscow was a pretty effective counterattack. Additionally, in modern industrialized war, you need to fix the enemy into position at some point, and flank with your maneuver forces, the fixing part is always going to be costly, but is something you always need to do. Grant did it during the US Civil War, and the Soviets needed to do it as they started pushing their way West; but they weren't using human wave attacks to do this, it maybe looked like this to the Germans because the Germans once they lost the initiative and especially after Kursk were always outnumbered.
Reminds me of how Dan Olson talked about the scene from Pink Floyd’s The Wall, where Pink imagines himself as a fascist dictator with the imposing symbol of the crossed hammers, only for that symbol to be appropriated by IRL British fascist groups. Those people just…don’t live on the same planet as the rest of us.
LOL Vaush:"the Soviets were so big brained they concluded suicidal charges into machine gun fire was a good idea if you had a lot of people" Stalin only stepped back after the general staff convinced him that his attention was better placed elsewhere
The Panzer VI was a good heavy tank with very specific tasks, esp. breakthrough. The main tanks of Nazi Germany were the models IV and V - medium ones, supplemented by the StuG III assault gun. The German Leopard I from the 1960s runs rings about these dinosaurs, and an M60 or Abrams makes mincemeat out of any of them.
Considering that starship troopers used its original book plot with very little changes other than trying (and unfortunately poorly) to make them look ridiculous, it obviously wasn't gonna be good at satire against facism. If you wanted to actually satirize the original books plot, make earth look like a dystopian nightmare constantly suffering from being ran by a disfunctional and obviously very corrupt facist government while the bugs worlds are shown to be Beautiful, lively and well taken care of, with the bugs themselves seeming to have a well organized and peacefull society up until the arrival of the terrain federation and them essentially ruining everything. Make it obvious that the only reason for the war between the bugs going on is because the facist need some sort of distraction to avoid their population turning on them. Heck, they even should have kept in the whole subplot with the skinies just modified to show how disfunction, brainwashed, and mindlessly destructive the terrain federation is.
Yeah, that's my main criticism, satire or not. Humans are shown to live in what is basically a utopia with no hunger, internal wars, poverty or homelessness. Not exactly making an argument against fascism as a world government.
1:45 It was supposed to be the bugs that threw the rock at the Earth but it was only after the humans had already invaded bug space and many bugs had been killed.
The Soviet military problem was not industry overall, they had plenty of tanks, airplanes and other weapons. What they had a problem with was trains and trucks, that is to say logistics. This was because of two reasons, first being the distances involved being inherently a challenge and secondly central planning not considering logistics as important. With the huge industrial and materiel losses the Soviets suffered at the start of Barbarossa, this is where Lend-Lease becomes load-bearing in how critical it was. American material aid not only allowed Soviet industry to focus solely on war production (not all that well because of all the corners that got cut to maximize production, the wartime production quality of the T-34 for example was comically abysmal and the biggest reason the Germans had such a massive K/D ratio in regards to tanks) because everything else could be covered by L-L, and very crucially for the eventual counter-offensive American auto industry could single-handedly motorize the Red Army's logistics as a side hustle (with the Studebaker trucks also being superior to any kind of truck the Soviets could have produced even in pre-war conditions).
I think a big part of Paul Verhoven’s vision was making it sexy - because that’s the way they view themselves. The trick is seeing past the sexiness to see the rot beneath. The second they start talking about violence as the main source of all power in a high school history class should have already set off alarm bells in the first 10 minutes of the movie.
If you want an idea of how WW1 generals talked, watch Kubrick's "Paths of Glory" some time. There you can see the French officers lounging in Versailles and speaking of their own soldiers with utter derision.
In almost every case, satires of fascism are going to go over the heads of fascists, because they are incapable of media literacy. Jojo Rabbit is one of a very few exceptions to this, and a contributing factor is that the main plot literally is a boy outgrowing his nazi beliefs, so it'd be an impressive feat to misinterpret that. Does this mean that Starship Troopers could be more on the nose? Well yeah, obviously. But it doesn't mean that it's bad satire, because anyone with their head on straight can see that it's not an endorsement of the society depicted in it.
Saw the same issue yesterday. Someone was claiming that old Star Trek, Star Wars, and Twilight Zone would be considered center right or right wing. They agree with those messages but they're too stupid to realize the right doesn't so they just claim it for themselves without thinking about what's in those shows
For those who haven't seen it yet, Knowing Better has a very good video essay on Starship Troopers. He talks about both the books and the movie and the differences between the two.
8 месяцев назад+9
what the fuck is this comment section...? Vaush is objectively correct in this.
the Sherman was the best tank in the war from the standpoint of logistics. it was designed to be easy to transport, maintain, and supply because the war was across an ocean. chieftain did a good video on it. some people are impressed because russia made more t34s, but we were busy building 23! essex fleet carriers.
@he_Car is bad in the sense that is not effective. fascist can ignore the "satire" and adopt it as is. that's why they happily quote "The Only Good Bug Is A Dead Bug!", people with right wing biases also miss the memo and even non-rightwingers criticized it for being a propaganda movie when it released... it goes whoosh over most people heads. other than that, the movie is good.
@@Stop_The_Car Because when you're satirizing fascism, you're supposed to have the "bad guys" actually be good guys that you sympathize with. The problem with starship troopers is that the bad guys are giant alien bug monsters, I don't care how much you try to make them sympathetic to people, people are going to instinctually want to kill them. Even if they weren't giants, or alien, people would still want to kill them. When your only two real options are the fascist government or giant alien bug monsters, people are gonna side with the fascists because the only good bug is a dead bug. There's also other stuff like how the mobile infantry got massacred the first time they fight the bugs, they're supposed to be portrayed as incompetent, but again, there's nothing to contrast them with except bug monsters, so instead of looking like incompetence, it looks like bravery in the face of overwhelming odds.
It's good satire cause every time a fascist says that they like the movie you can just point out to them, "hey, you know that movie is making fun of you right?" And then they have to think, to whatever degree they're capable.
@scool they are not dumb, they will laugh in your face and call you a bug lover. leftists are too smug to catch the plot of what's going on around them, i wonder who is the one slow on the mind after all.
To my understanding, the bugs did throw the meteor at earth, but it was the humans who had invaded their territory and established a Mormon outpost on their planet.
I watched it for the first time at 17 or 18 yo. Some of the satire was lost on me, but the "I'm doing my part" commercials I definitely remember getting.
The problem is that Heinlein is the high overgod of creepy nerds, and even his 'nono, it's a devil's advocate for fascism' argument got twisted into 'Heinlein gud' by... well, the American military. Verhoeven knew exactly what he was doing. His biggest domestic hits were: essentially a Beverly Hilbillies clone with very charming and likeable crooks living in a rich suburb. And 'Soldier of Oranje' a war film about fighter pilots in-exile. *They gave the Robocop guy a novel on the **_celebration of fascism._** What were they expecting?!*
Starship Troopers is one of my favorite movies. My left wing friends like it because its a fun satire and my right wing friends like it cuz they don't believe its satire. Its fun for the whole friend group
Another thing to consider in looking back at how toe Soviet's defended their territory in WW2; The USSR did not start effectively industrializing its industry until 1929. In comparison, the U.S. and Britain started industrializing wayyyyyy earlier than that (~1800-1900). They simply did what they had to at the start of the war, and by the end of it they were dumpstering the Nazis.
Put enough armor and the biggest gun you have on a over engineered chassis and people tend to ignore the fact that a tiny bit of Russian mud will cripple it.
I never got how anybody could assume Harrison meant the world of Starship Troopers to be seen as an utopia, when it's so obvious a dystopian setting. But to be fair, IIRC the humans in the book weren't half a harebrained as in the movie.
sHitler smokes throughout Jojo Rabbit. People pointed out to the director that adi was very much anti-tobacco. _"Yeah... I didn't think he was worth the respect of getting accurate"_
People have a lot of ridiculous takes on Heinlein too but going by a lot of his other books he had all sorts of visions of the future. He wrote The Cat Who Walks Through Walls too and it basically suggested everyone will end up bisexual and free to be naked and stuff
Yes, absolutely. I read most of Heinlein's novels as a teen; in that context I took Starship troopers as a thought exercise, neither an endorsement or condemnation of fascism, more a confrontation. "Is this what you want? Because this is as good as this can get" kind of vibe. I may be off entirely, I have not revisited any of his material in decades. But my teen brain did find the promise of SST's future quite grim, I could not wrap my head around anyone cheering for it...
RW capitalist/Neo-liberal ideology right there, why they need to ensure to keep the birth rates high by any means, their whole economy Pyramid/ponzi scheme is dependent on more consumers, more bug/cannon fodder to keep the perpetual military industrial complex going.
Having watched the whole video, Vaush didn't even say that here about ST. I can maybe derive a take like that (fascists are too stupid and empty to understand a parody of their ideology, so they don't register ST is mocking them) from this clip, but he didn't actually say that. Even Vaush's editors are putting words in his mouth, now. /s
i am getting tired of the whole "fascist are dumb and don't get it"... they are not dumb (in that regard), they know what they are doing. idk why he changed the name of the video, the first one was better. idk if it's for click bait, but it is terrible click bait if you say the same thing about each topic.
What most people realise is that the Nazis outnumbered the Soviets up to the point where they were starting to be pushed back. A lot of the casualties came from Russia's unpreparedness and inability to coordinate a substantial defence combined with the Nazis exterminating or working to death almost every soldier they captured.
I've never read the Starship Trooper's book but neither did the director. I've heard that the regime wasn't fascist but the director first assumed it was and then thought it would be cooler. So I doubt its a satire of fascism, at least intentionally. Book describes a unique sytem of authoritarian liberal democracy. I have no idea how that would be possible, don't ask me, read the book.
Also nothing actually bad is done by the government in the movie? Even if they are fascists, movie ends in their victory and nothing bad at all happens to human society in the movies timeline. Only possibility that would make the goverment bad is if you assume bugs did not launch that meteor to earth and it was used as an excuse to destroy bugs but Its absolutely done by bugs in the book and the movie never implies othervise. And again its not even a satire intentionally. Book has nothing to do with it and the director just wanted a cool sci-fi action movie.
The plotline of JoJo Rabbit is literally a little boy outgrowing his Nazi ideology. Its pretty hard to miss the point, even for a fascist lol.
Well yeah because its a good satire only stupid people mias thw point but atarship troopers hit the point where there are soo many people missing the point, i dont think its good satire, even in the best of cases its mediocre, yeah there are a lot of stupid people but there is a limit
@peterrj1973 One of the key themes of the movie is that it's so easy for your average "citizen" to fall for nationalistic, imperialist, and fascist propaganda. People getting wrapped up stupidly in the anti-bug fervor is the point.
@@SupermarketZombies the thing is if its the main point of the movie only really really stupid people dlnt get it, or is not that reslly well conveyed and it either took some grease or googling
I think a relevant thing about Starship Troopers is that it's based on source material that was presenting all of that stuff completely sincerely with no irony at all. Paul Verhoeven just too the Heinlein book and put it directly on screen and just added a sarcastic eyebrow raise. It's not just internally a mockery of fascist rhetoric, its very existence is a direct mockery of real-world fascist rhetoric. (edit: disregard this first paragraph. I'm stupid.)
As for claiming it's not obvious enough... I don't know what to tell you. All of Verhoeven's work is like that. If most people watch Robocop and walk away feeling like it's just a cool movie about a robot cop then that's a failing in the viewers media literacy.
You can go as blatant and over the top as Warhammer's Imperium of Man and you *still* get idiots unironically acting thinking that it's a good thing.
Or, Jojo is a story about cultural degenerates undermining The Eternal Reich, and led to the victory of The Jews. Anything can be misinterpreted willfully or inadvertently.
"Political satire became irrelevant when Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize."
-Tom Lehrer
"We will all go together when we go!"
@@christophergreen6595 Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown
"Nazi, Schmazi!" says Wernher von Braun
I actually think this quote is pretty stupid. For starters, giving roles for peace is …well it’s kinda odd and would force many people who might deserve such an award to not get it. Also, Kissinger wasn’t the first controversial individual. Prior to him WOODROW WILSON got the award…in 1919…after he basically destroyed world security and civil liberties around d the world. After Kissinger came two Irish women, whoose peace efforts arguably didn’t end up doing much, and prob could be said to be naive (seriously they did not advocate for British to leave Ireland), then of course came everyone’s Myanmar leader!
Political sanities works anywhere! You just gotta be aware of who you’re making fun and how to do so. It’s why snl failed so much in the Trump years while other comedians did well, because they could adapt to making fun of a literal buffoon white supremacist .
The central satirical element of Starship Troopers ultimately lies in the fact that fascists feel about real human beings the way the humans of the Federation feel about fictional bug monsters. Yes, there are the additional elements of fascism within the Federation itself, the fact that the Federation citizens are (mostly) propagandized into their hate, and the implication that the humans may have struck first. But ultimately when real life fascists ask the question of how anyone can align with the bug monsters in the movie, the appropriate response should ALWAYS be to point out that the bugs are fictional, whereas they (the real life fascists that is) feel precisely the same way about the bugs as they do real life human beings (but only certain human beings of course!).
Rico: "I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill 'em all!"
Andy Ogles: "You know what? So, I think we should kill ’em all, if that makes you feel better."
That's it, that's the point.
Regardless, all blessings to Verhoeven for providing us with an eternal litmus test.
Exactly. The bugs are just Fictional beasts. The Chaos Demons or Tyranids are just Fictional. The real evil are the humans who treat other humans as though they are Bug Monsters or Chaos Demons.
The point in the book is also that it's bad to see the bugs as monsters. They're clearly intelligent, with the capacity to strategise, and interplanetary travel ability. At the beginning of the book, the bugs are also allied with a third species, showing they must be capable of diplomacy.
@@IMelkor42the bugs are a direct allegory for the Soviet Union lol
Which is funny compared to the book where the federal service says it doesn't matter if your are blind & missing all your limbs they will find a federal service job for you. In the book all civilians have a constitutional right to attempt to become a citizen & you dont need to join the military to become one. Fascists will point to only the militaristic points of literature while leaving out the rest.
you guys think like this because right wing guys think commies have no soul and you are not human? because that is not talking about all humans... just commies.
People not understanding satire isnt the failing of the piece of art. Its a failing of people's understanding of it.
Nah, there is 100% a point where you haven't exaggerated enough to make something an effective satirical criticism. SST may have been over that line when it came out, but the material conditions have shifted and now it's hardly a satire of fascism, it's just what those freaks believe.
@@themightymcb7310 If its too exaggerated its not satire anymore. Good satire needs to be subtle enough for you to question if its actually satire or not.
star ship troopers is as subtle as a brick to the face @@themightymcb7310
@@nathanpapp432monty python satire works though
@@mallardofmodernia8092 Python is more parody, and it's highly comedic so it can be more exaggerated. SST isnt a comedy.
The point of the movie is that it dosn't MATTER if the Bugs caused the destruction of Benos Ares, even the usage of a legitimate threat to create a fascist state is still a deathride for society.
They were fascist BEFORE the meteor struck. The meteor shows how fascism destroys itself by starting fights it cant handle.
@@NeoFryBoythey weren't, and aren't fascist.
The system was in place before the asteroid, but that's not relevant.
Federation is not a fascist state - that's Verhoven's faliure to understand the book.
@@jakubfabisiak9810 there’s a valid argument to be made that the book Federation isn’t fascist, probably closer to some kind of minarchy with limited democracy perhaps, however the movie Federation has noticeable fascist tendencies and ideological dogmas.
@@YokaiX the movie version still isn't fascist. There is no segregation, or discrimination for civilians for one - Rico's father is filthy rich, and makes no secret that he doesn't think being a citizen is worth the risk (in the book, he later joins up as well). But pay close attention to Rasczak. First, he explains that only citizens having a right to vote is not a "reward" given to them for supporting the state, because "voting is violence" - it's a responsibility entrusted to those who have proven they're willing to shoulder it, even at personal risk.
Later, when Rico mentions joining up, Rasczak doesn't say "great, join up, serve the Federation" - he says "figuring things out for yourself is the one true freedom you have - use that freedom".
There's a bit of a disconnect between the movie, and the book, because in the book the Federation takes utmost care to avoid casualties. At every turn it is made clear, that service is entirely volountary. The film makes use of some over-the-top sequences, which is why there is a fan theory that the Federation intentionally uses bullshit tactics, to deliberately keep the casualties high. But even when the "mission to P" where Dizzy gets killed had a low survival probability, and the brass knew it, but had to send it to verify P as a viable target, they still tried to rescue the unit.
Also, there is no state-controlled media. The casualty lists are made public, and the Federation immediately corrects its strategy for dealing with the arachnids.
Compare with movies like "Soldier" (with Kurt Russel), or V for Vendetta.
As for the "ideological dogmas" - what dogmas? Concern for the survival of the human race isn't an ideological dogma. There is propaganda, to be sure, but it's only directed at the arachnids, not "whoever isn't with us, is against us".
It's easy to miss but the bug meteor that was launched at Earth was a response to Morman colonial projects into bug-held space. The Morman thing is only mentioned briefly at the start of the film for a few seconds in a news clip. The attack was a warning to Earth to stay the fuck out. And it was used as justification for genocide. Earth fired first with attempted colonialism
Seeing everyone in buenos aires being blonde hwite boys is a flawless sight gag
Many Germans moved to Argentina after WW2 its not actually a sight gag. There are plenty of blonde white people in Buenos Aries.
Argentinians are white lol wtf u on. Let me guess you think "Latino" is a race
It was one of the first things that started to make me question the movie. I was like "Wait why are all the people who live in a Latin American country white blonde hair blue eyes?"
They're not, tho.
@es8670 chile, argentina and uruguay are mostly white people.
It astonishes me to no end that people still don't get that: ST is a propaganda movie from the future. Of course the "heroes" are all good looking. It tells you: Become a fascist and you'll be good-looking, too. It's a recruitment vehicle.
Yeah people forget that as a viewer of ST, you’re watching the movie through an info screen, as if the movie was made by The Federation itself. I think a lot of people missed the point of the “would you like to know more?” and visible menu scrolling.
Even in that sense it's transparent because just about every adult in the movie is missing some limbs.
@@vanyadolly"the Federation couldn't completely hide the the truth"
Wish I'd seen this comment sooner. I was trying to break this down for people further down in the comments, no matter how simple you make the little pieces and how neatly you make them fit together people just can't understand.
"BUT BUGS SCARY, RICO HANDSOME, HOW SATIRE STUPID MAN?''
Like arguing with a caveman hitting himself in the head with a rock repeatedly and eventually the rock says ''you know you're right he shouldn't be doing this''
@@firstandlastname6194Yeah. I don't think it logistically possible to make a movie more obviously satirical than Starship Troopers already is. At some point you have to acknowledge that some people are just too dumb.
The point with the bugs throwing an asteroid at Earth was supposed to be the bugs acting in self defense against humans approaching on their territory. Movie doesn't explain it well and it being a false flag would probably have been better.
It's totally a false flag. They knew nothing about the bugs when earth did the first assault
Either interpretation, humans are still the aggressors
It wasn't even a false flag, it was just a natural disaster. Early in the movie you see an in-universe propaganda piece about how high tech and impenetrable the new defense lasers are, only for Buenos Aires to be hit like 25 minutes later. Its pretty clear to me that the "joke" is that its just some random asteroid, nothing to do with the bugs, that hits the planet and the new (presumably very expensive) laser grid didn't do squat. So the government blames the bugs to distract people from asking why the hell the lasers didn't do their job.
@pancakes8670 But one is far more blatant about it, and that's for the better.
Klendathu was on the other side of the galaxy (as we see in a galaxitic map shortly in the film). No way the bugs hurled a meteor that hit Earth from so far out! The more likely cause is:
1. Random happenstance. The Federation I'm sure has the technology though to blow it up before it hits Earth, but likely wanted to allow it. Great tradgeties are a great way to build up fervor.
2. Inside Job, planned.
Either way, Federation is responsible for the deaths of millions on Waeth before even starting the War with rhe Bugs.
I read starship troopers and was horrified. That shit is an unironic fascist manifesto. Then I watched the movie and it was literally the exact same setting being shown in a realistic way to prove exactly how fucking insane the book is.
Well, that's the thing. Inasmuch as there's any philosophy or politics in the book, it's not a discussion. It's a lecture. Nobody challeneges the viewpoints of people extolling the virtues of a system they benefit enormously from.
Heinlein is a really interesting person, as a writer. Certainly a square, but he also supported the scene.
@@christophergreen6595 asimov called him a raging liberal and I can see why
Ah the Starship Troopers novel. I do not believe Heinlein was trying to be fascist, but he was unabashedly a proponent of militarism, which fascism relies on -- so I definitely don't blame anyone for getting bad vibes from him.
I dunno, here's some random context:
1: Robert Heinlein was a Navy veteran between the world wars. He couldn't serve the Navy anymore in WW2, so instead he got a job as a shipbuilder. He was very much on the "this machine kills fascists" side of things
2: In the movie, you need to serve in the military to get citizenship. This is not the case in the novel, where you can get citizenship through lots of mundane things like asteroid mining
3: In real life, the Merchant Marines were denied veteran status despite operating in WW2 warzones (and suffering MORE deaths per-capita than the rest of the Marine Corps). Robert Heinlein hated this, and the Starship Troopers novel contains a whole section protesting it
So many people miss the point of the book. It's not fascistic. It's more a civic-nationalist militaristic bughunt. Heinlein was pretty damn progressive for his time, too. I like his writings, and as a vet/brat I see a lot of military cultural nuance that most people miss. @@TARINunit9
I read the book too.
The Terran Federation makes zero effort to do diplomacy with the Bugs, and we know the Bugs do diplomacy because of the Skinnies, an alien race allied with them that the Terran Federation literally stages a terrorist attack against to terrify them into neutrality or switching sides (I'm not sure which).
Also, there is one exception to the "Insane Generals" thing and that's Omar Bradley.
It's never specified in the novel.
If I'm not mistaken, weren't the bugs in the novel more intelligent and were vaguely a metaphor for Communists?
@@pancakes8670 Absolutely, they used decpetion, laser weapons, and sound tactics. It wasn't too vague either imo, there was a lot of cutting remarks on the difference between the worker and leadership castes.
@@pancakes8670"Metaphor for?" I think Rico outright calls them the perfect example of communism in practice.
If only the movie had any of that.
People will see vaush say "The soviets weren't orkz" and say. "I knew he was a Stallinist" despite everything he's said about it.
The right misses the point of Rage Against the Machine, the band thats openly anarchistic. I'm not sure you can always blame the artist in these sorts of equations.
Manage to get the wrong take away on so many things, should change their name to the wrong is more appropriate for their world view.
the left missed the point of rage against the machine... you are trying to build a machine yourself xD kkk
Funny, the right seem to be anarchists.
"F*** you, take the jab if They tell you.
F*** you, take the jab if they tell you!
F*** you! Take the jab when they TELLLL you!!
F*** YOU! YOU'LL TAKE THE JAB WHEN WE TELL YOU!!!
No EXERCISE, just stay INSIDE!
We'll let you out for BLM and gay pride!"
Anarchistic, my @$$! 😂
Jojo rabbit 5/5
Haven't seen starship troopers in like 25 years so I can't comment on that. As a kid it was a banger action movie
Even as a kid I understood that despite the bugs looking, well, as bugs. The actual invasive species were the humans.
Play helldivers 2. It's starship troopers and you kill the bugs.
@@OctyabrAprelya Lemme guess, you were also a Trekkie growing up?
@@szeddezs Just a tad. Grew up in a small tow in literally in the middle of the jungle. Only could see what air tv could deliver.
Starship troopers feels like a add for the military in universe. Meta fiction
It quite literally is an in-universe propaganda film. I highly doubt the Terran Federation soldiers were having that much fun lol
YES. Another person in the comments who understands.
As I said in my other comment the movie both depicts a ridiculous society and itself is obviously ridiculous.
So many people in the comments are literally caught up on what Vaush is arguing against. People are falling for the glorification of the Federation in the aesthetic of the film that is obviously meant to be over the top, they are literally falling for *fake* propaganda that is obviously satire. And its already been pointed out to them - that's what stuns me.
but the movie shows us they all get butchered in battle on live broadcast to the people, how is that propaganda?@@pancakes8670
Starship Troopers managed to perfectly predict America's post 9/11 psyche.
is not prediction, we kept doing the same shit since time immemorial
@@Badbufon "Carthago delenda est."
@@BadbufonNot in deserts tho.
And the subsequent war being a long fruitless meat grind, too.
This is every human conflict ever.
Thank you for including the 10 minutes long stunlock on the Battle of Kursk. I like listening to Vaush talk about stuff
I feel like the biggest problem with anti-fascism, anti-war, anti-capitalism, etc. type satire is that the people who need the message won't understand it and the people who don't need the message will understand.
Sadly always so, the beauty of fascism is many who hold fascistic ideals don't realize why it is wrong, or it is in their base nature what they enjoy being.
It's a pretty badly delivered message then.
That is kinda inevitable, I think.
Yes and no. It's variable.
It's very difficult to get a person to change their mind and critically examine their ideas when they've tied their sense of belonging to a community and their sense of identity to maintaining those ideas. The biggest commonality in people who do have a drastic change in their beliefs is finding themselves in a position where they are independent of the social group which reinforces their ideas. This is why we see things like people becoming atheists when they go off to college. They are safe to explore different ideas and explore their own ideas critically.
So, things like Starship Troopers are important to this process. The 14 year old Nick Fuentes fan might not get that the movie is mocking them in particular. But they are still registering the critique by internalizing the media. Think of it as planting a seed. There's something there. They might not consciously register it. But it's there all the same. Now it just needs to right conditions to germinate.
Revisiting these materials can be a major part of the deconstructing process. This stuff happens for formerly religious people and it happens for political extremists too.
Point being, changing minds is a process. Ideas and contradictions accumulate. Not everyone will find themselves forced to face them head on. But some will. So we need this kind of thing out there even if it's not immediately apparent that it does anything but give people in the know a wry sense of self satisfaction.
@@VecheslavNovikov I disagree. I've seen countless characters who are blatantly designed to be satire (like Steven Armstrong, Tyler Durden, Patrick Bateman, Caesar, Walter White) yet the audiences revere them and say they were right. I've seen Metal Gear Solid and Bioshock show up on "top conservative games" lists. You can make the most blatantly obvious work of satire that has the villains looking into the camera and telling us they're the bad guys, and there would still be audience members who missed the point. The problem isn't how the message is delivered, it's a problem with audience media literacy.
If you (not vaush) can't comprehend the crushing satire of Starship Troopers or Helldivers, you might actually be disabled
maybe they don't really care, that's what happens when is up to the spectator to understand the meaning of something.
@@Badbufon they see exactly what they want to see. No matter what, nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe instead of ableism, you could explain the crushing aspects of it?
@@VecheslavNovikov
Someone's clearly a sucker for Managed Democracy.
Helldivers literally slaps the satire against your face and rubs its all over you over and over again while explicitly repeating the wiki page for "satire" word for word.
Within the movie it was stated that the humans started it by invading the bugs territory and errecting a colony. We all know what human colonists do to locals once they have the upper hand, the bugs were completely right to react to the invasion the way we would react to an invasion as well. The meteor was just part of an ongoing conflict.
The mormon settlers went there of their own accord, it wasn't a move made by the federation.
@@kuhj278Or to rephrase that, the federation decided not to stop a privately organised invasion of it's citizens into the territory of another species.
If you try to privately organise an invasion into a neighbouring country, you will see that your government can and will put a stop to private endevours against their interest.
Stuff like JoJo Rabbit and the Producers are better at making fun of fascists/Nazis because their portrayals are so deliberately silly and camp that it is impossible for fascists to appropriate it. It makes them look effeminate (which they hate) and incompetent (which they don’t want to admit).
Yeah. The point of Troopers is that you're supposed to point and laugh at it as "Haha, this is what fascists think of themselves"
But obviously this means that when actual fascists see it they think "Wow! that's literally me"
Paul Verhoven literally said "I wanted to make a movie so painfully obvious in its satire that everyone who understands it lives in perpetual psychological torment inflicted on them by all the people who don't"
Oh... I'm feeling it today SpongeBob.
Paul is a moron. Next question.
Yet he put no fascism in the movie and made an anti-fascist movie with a fascist paintjob.
@@worldofwarcraftman2 you're one of the people he was talking about lol
fascism is when the elected officials step down and apologize for making mistakes and replaced by black woman.@@Borel-nv5bq
Regarding the soviet strategy, Military History Visualised has a video on how the soviets were better at strategic planning (big planning and logistics) while germans were better at a tactical level, in a nutshell: this gave them an edge early in the war, but later soviets just started playing the germans because they could preddict german movements, while germans were too busy micromanaging entire fronts.
It is more flashy speaking of single units flanking forts and that, but while that was happening, 2 soviet armies were already all around them closing in for the kill
So in Starcraft terminology, the Wermacht microd a lot, but the Red army had a better macro game and just A moved everything
@@seaturtleninjagaming4602 yep
This also relates to the myth of the technologically superior Germans.
The Germans focused on fancy, new weaponry (V1, V2, jets, putting more armor on tanks), while the Allies focused on more boring but practical tech (radar, sonar, logistical, and churning out as many tanks as they can, only incrementally upgrading them if it didn't slow production).
In Starcraft terms, one side rushed the enitre tech tree at the expense of unit numbers. The other rushed key techs, but then focused on churning the units out. I can even add, if they're playing Terran, the one advanced tech they rushed after getting enough tanks and getting the seige mode upgrade was nuclear silos.
There is a bit of truth on the technological advantage to the germans, they did inherit a lot of scientists and institutions from the Weichmar republic, but, even with all those advantages, their incompetency and schitzophrenic fascistic ideas were the factors that threw all those advantages to the garbage.
I woudl suggest recognising that factor would be advantageous for us while discussing with fascists, how even with all those points in their favour, they failed misserably
Pretty much they started with multiple reseacrh slots and still lost@@CSXIV
It seems reasonable to conclude that the higher level stuff being done poorly is due to moustache in chief taking over and fucking it up.
I heard a story about some German engineers who got hold of a soviet tank and were laughing at the shoddy craftsmanship of it. "These armour plates don't even meet, this bit isn't centred properly" etc. But then they were reminded that the Soviets could pump out dozens of these for every one German tank, with the same crew.
The title is clickbait, his take is good
What was the og title i think he changed it
Wait, the title seems fine to me?
@@underplague6344 He does change titles shortly after upload quite often.
@@underplague6344 starship troopers fails at satire or smth like that
Service Guarantees Citizenship!
@@pancakes8670 Now it's impossible to not associate that with Knowing Better instead.
I'm doing my part!
I’m doing my part!
The book for which the movie was based on was very much pro-capitalism and military while not being pro-fascism. The director took everything and dialed it up to 11 and the left adopted it as a full on satire of everything bad with the right. Its why you can watch it as a satire and as a non-satire and enjoy it. Truly a unique moment in cinema.
I recommend everyone watches Knowing Betters video essay on both the movie and book
by the time of the invasion the soviets were already producing more tanks per month. The issue is mainly that they were recently produced and not already ready on the front, as well as limited training time, and supply chain issues due to losing ground and being just outnumbered on the field at any given time. It was kind of a snowballing effect. Once they stabilized, and the active numbers were equal, it turned around permanently.
The Soviets were actually outnumbered initially. By the time they had overwhelming numerical superiority they already had modernized their tactics and ramped up war production. So the stories of massive unarmed human waves are largely a myth, or at least exaggerated.
We can thank Nazi memoirs being the predominant mainstream source about the eastern front during the cold war for those exaggerations.
No, they were not. They even had significant more tanks and artillery. I wonder from where you got that nonsense from. BUT they were not in proper defensive positions anywhere but they did nothing! NOT ONE THING! And why? Because good old uncle Joe did not want to provoke the Nazis in any shape or form. Dictatorships are awesome, right?
Hiding the deployment of over 3M man at your borders is not possible, not now and not then. The only "surprise" about this attack was when it start and nothing else! Like with Hitler, it was Stalins fault that they did bleed so much in the first phase of this war and the purges and restructuring did not the improve the overall situation either! And these were ordered by whom? Good old uncle Joe!
IIRC that's incorrect, the Soviets always had a numerical superiority over the Germans across the front, just not the insane 10:1 types that got reported in German memoirs. There's quite a good essay from a few years ago criticising the RUclipsr TIK on this subject (I found it be googling "TIK debunked russian numbers ww2"), which goes decently into the weeds of different casualty and manpower estimates, and what they're actually measuring.
2:57 This is exactly what's happened with Warhammer 40K. The company GW doesn't support the Imperium, but they've been marketing them as unironic heroes for decades. GW can't let go of their brand babies, so none of the objectively less-crazy factions get the spotlight. They also don't allow any human faction to persist outside of the Imperium, sending the message that fascism is a valid way of keeping humanity alive; your only alternative is Chaos, who inevitably end up getting gunned down by the Imperium.
same problem warcraft has, even when within the story is the logical conclusion that the races should unite and embrace diversity, they keep on with the cheap drama and going back to the status quo.
I think the older grungy 40k artwork does such a better job at portraying how ugly the imperium is. In contrast almost every official artwork of gullimenn makes him look like an archangel
Solution: do not engage with nerd shit
(I'm kidding, don't worry. Also it would be cool if they had a rival human faction that had like, idk, any of millions of other cool ideas of fantasy societies)
@@hughquigley5337 Technically we have that now with the Leagues of Votan.
Its harder for it to say the humans are bad in wh because everybody is bad, the imperium, the transhumanist of mars, the elf like creatures, i was really into the lore i forgot the name i dont know why, the point everyobody is bad, tho is true that the less bad ones are the weabo otakus of space and the good eldar, but the imperium at least as far as i have seen in the last book i saw, the revival of guilliman, they worked with the good eldar and cole, which i mean cole is a bad person but the good eldars arent, they try their best, i mean if slanesh was to claim my soul i wouldnt know what to do exactly
For the time starship troopers was made, the satire was good and correct, the bars just been moved further right
Of course they miss the point of starship troopers. The farther right you go, the less capable you become of critical thought and media analysis. :(
The Bible makes so much more sense as a work of satire.
Missing the satire in the "Starship Troopers" novel could perhaps be forgiven, but anyone who missed the (imo, overtly) satirical tone of the Hollywood film adaptation needs some remedial classes in Film Analysis and Critique (perhaps starting with "Learning to distinguish Reality from Fiction").
The original novel isn't satirical. Heinlein explicitly described it as a reflection of his political beliefs. The movie is a satire of the book, not a straight adaptation.
The problem is that every movie is a satire of the real world.
"Starship Troopers" is high-quality satire, which is why right-wingers don't understand it.
People aren’t failing to understand satire. They are failing to understand that a man who claimed to make an adequate satire failed in that regard when you take a moment to actually look at it.
Same thing with helldiver 2
HOW?!?! That game is so obviously satire
I saw some memes saying "the socialists are siding with the bugs again, what idiots. Can't they see the bugs are attacking and eating people?." And like...Yeah; Super Earth is the antagonist in the story of helldivers. They genocided the bugs until they realized they could factory farm them to make space oil; then they enslaved them and genetically modified them. Then when they broke out of containment, we started genociding them again. If you squint a little, you can even come to the realization that super earth is the one causing the spread of the bugs. They don't have any way to get from planet to planet, and the rich of super earth benefit by throwing people at the bugs. They get to do a fascism, cull the bug population, and get space oil without having to go through the effort of farming the bugs.
@@toast47178 conservatives can't tell the difference
@toast47178 why do you think the debate on Starship Troopers being satire started? People miss the point really hard
@@toast47178 the intro is a little cheeky, but is not OBVIOUS. the tv ads were more obvious about it. and after that, is just thousand of hours being cool killing bugs so you turn your brain off.
The Soviet “Human Wave” is a piece of propaganda. At the start of the war there was something akin to a “human wave” due to the sheer speed of German advances making it hard to prepare proper defenses, but for most of the war the tactics were Defense in Depth tactics for the most part, which proved to be highly effective against German Spearheads.
As for the human wave thing: Stalin specifically wrote an order to execute officers who used actual human wave tactics, calling them traitors for wasting their men. But a lot of the younger officers were simply not too experienced with advanced infantry tactics as their Germans counterparts were, partially a result of the purge. The whole human wave propaganda comes from the early years of the war when a lot of Soviet commanders would execute delaying actions on the Germans, only to get outmaneuvered and either sleughtered or captured by the Germans because they couldn't use their aerial reconnaisance.
It also ties into the actual fact of that a lot of Soviet equipment was badly manufactured, and that the average Soviet division had poor supply planning (**in addition** to their supply lines being cut) - so tank counter strikes for the Soviets in 1941 went disastrously despite their numerical superiority, simply due to the fact they couldn't repair or refuel their vehicles. The Soviets had plenty of industry, it was in fact Stalin's biggest priority in the 1930s, just the sheer amount of semi-automatic rifles produced dwarfs anything the Germans made (who still used bolt action rifles because they couldn't equip themselves with those). The Soviets had problems staffing their factories, who employed people that under normal circumstances would not have been factory workers, like former farmers.
The same thing happened with The Boys after 3 seasons.
The line in the movie states that Mormon missionaries founded a settlement in bug territory and the bugs attacked.
based bugs
Something I want to point out about Germany vs. Russia in WW2 was, despite winning, the Russians did an absolutely piss poor performance. The only reason they won was because Germany made a lot of key logistical and strategic mistakes. The sheer amount of death and destruction to Russia was due to their terrible equipment, poor training, and overall poor tactical and strategic planning. Their victory can be described as the biggest fluke in military history.
If Germany hit Russia with only a bit more force and were more coherent, Russia would’ve fallen.
Bear in mind too: The Soviet Union had to move nearly their entire industrial base east to prevent them falling into the N@z1s’ hands. Whole factories were packed up and moved hundreds of kilometres east. Yet, the Red Army was still able to arm every soldier at least competently(no, the soldiers weren’t waiting to pick up a gun from other dead men) Their commanders were fairly competent, barring some idiots. It is said the USSR had 3 armies during WWII: 1941, 1942-43, and 1944-45. If you were a soldier in the Red Army, you would see your army not only fight for its life, but incorporate very hard lessons into new tactics to defeat an enemy who fundamentally wanted to wipe your people off the map.
The Maginot Line worked flawlessly. The Germans avoided it because it couldnt be breached. The Allies knew this and therefor positioned the French and British armies on the Belgian border. Germany attacking through Belgium was the only sane option and everyone knew it. No one was surprised. Hell, Belgium learned of the German invasion plans ahead of time and filed an official protest. The reason why the Allies failed in Belgium wasnt because the Maginot Line failed. It was because the French and British did not use their tanks according to modern updated tactics.
If prepared defenses doesnt work, then how come Ukraine failed in breaching Russian positions last summer?
Let me make this point clear:
The Maginot Line worked perfectly. The Allies plan was to destroy Germany in Belgium all along.
As I understand it, the original plan was for French and British forces to be stationed _within_ Belgium ahead of time. But that went out the window after Belgium left its alliance with France, in protest of Paris and London's decision to abandon Czechoslovakia to Hitler in 1938. So when the German offensive began, the French and British rushed into Belgium to try and meet them, which left them vulnerable to German armoured spearpoints punching through their lines.
Another factor was also that the Allies had assumed that the Ardennes would be impossible for German tanks to quickly traverse, which turned out to be incorrect, meaning the Germans were able to move far faster than anticipated and met the Allied forces long before they expected them to appear.
@@BlaaankOwl The Germans had several plans. All of which had the Allies win during the wargames. But Hitler then approved of the Ardennes approach.
The plan was to send the army through the Netherlands and draw the Allies into Belgium. And then move the concentrated force of armor through the Ardennes forest and cut off the Allies from supplies.
The plan worked but not flawlessly. The Germans got gridlocked on the narrow roads through the forest and they were spotted by French scouts. But French high command thought it was a diversion and took the bait and went for the main army.
The result was the Germans moving in behind the Allies and the British being forced to fall back to Dunkirk.
German reports from the battles speak of incredible French heroism and stubborness, fighting like devils. 90% of what people think is WW2 history is more or less BS.
I literally just watched Starship Troopers for the first time tonight and loved it so damn much. The timing of that with this upload is an insane coincidence.
We all know why everyone's watching Starship Troopers right now
JoJo Rabbit is one of my favorite movies of all time.
4:17 and the British. 50% of their gdp was dedicated to the war effort which was more than any other power. Willingness to die for a cause doesn't equal commitment to it
Its not even that. The people don't get to choose how much they sacrifice. They get drafted and rationed, mostly against their will. The only question is can the political establishment keep the war popular enough to not get voted out or couped. Its got nothing to do with determination.
Most of their gdp was stolen from other countries
Most of their gdp was stolen from other countries
Common myth that Soviets were militarily incompetent and relied on mass wave tactics.
When the battlefield is built like Iowa and you aren’t fully industrialized any country in that position would look “incompetent”
I think the funniest shit i ever seen from Starship Troopers was from a guy in youtube comments saying that Buenos Aires was an inside job. I laughed my ass off.
Dawg, Buenos Aires was an inside job, how the fuck are bugs sending an asteroid from the other side of the Galaxy?
Inside job no but why do think they show the scene where the ship hits an asteroid in deep space (therefore altering the trajectory) and then Buenos Aires is hit? Bc the terrans caused it and instead blamed the bugs to cover their ass and gain support for war.
starship troopers had the shower scene, which is what most people remember it for, namely the fascists, on top of leather NPH
Dizzy's boobs rock so hard deadass forgot the rest of the movie.
You mean the scene that showed equality, egalitarianism? Zero sexual overtones, and no one being objectified and they are all respected? How, fascistic.
Love from a ChristainVerstappen and TwistyTheTiny fan!
I first saw this as a young adult, I wasn't very tuned in but a big clue was that they had to enlist and go to war to be able to vote. I feel like anyone should get how weird that idea was.
Moral of the Kursk story: what if we put mines, shoulder to shoulder, over a 20 mile radius?
Someone the other day pointed out Pokémon has lasted longer than the n4zis
So technically/well actually, the Soviets had in WW2, pretty good tactics overall, especially starting around 1942 once they had a breather to realized the problem. Little known fact, the Germans actually out numbered the Soviets on the eve of the invasion in 1941, and encircled a large number of Soviet troops by virtue of the fact of how forward deployed and poorly prepared their forces overall. In addition to strategic issues like not being allowed to take initiative and withdraw in a timely fashion. The Winter counteroffencive of 42 that drove the germans away from Moscow was a pretty effective counterattack.
Additionally, in modern industrialized war, you need to fix the enemy into position at some point, and flank with your maneuver forces, the fixing part is always going to be costly, but is something you always need to do. Grant did it during the US Civil War, and the Soviets needed to do it as they started pushing their way West; but they weren't using human wave attacks to do this, it maybe looked like this to the Germans because the Germans once they lost the initiative and especially after Kursk were always outnumbered.
Reminds me of how Dan Olson talked about the scene from Pink Floyd’s The Wall, where Pink imagines himself as a fascist dictator with the imposing symbol of the crossed hammers, only for that symbol to be appropriated by IRL British fascist groups. Those people just…don’t live on the same planet as the rest of us.
LOL
Vaush:"the Soviets were so big brained they concluded suicidal charges into machine gun fire was a good idea if you had a lot of people"
Stalin only stepped back after the general staff convinced him that his attention was better placed elsewhere
The Panzer VI was a good heavy tank with very specific tasks, esp. breakthrough. The main tanks of Nazi Germany were the models IV and V - medium ones, supplemented by the StuG III assault gun. The German Leopard I from the 1960s runs rings about these dinosaurs, and an M60 or Abrams makes mincemeat out of any of them.
Considering that starship troopers used its original book plot with very little changes other than trying (and unfortunately poorly) to make them look ridiculous, it obviously wasn't gonna be good at satire against facism.
If you wanted to actually satirize the original books plot, make earth look like a dystopian nightmare constantly suffering from being ran by a disfunctional and obviously very corrupt facist government while the bugs worlds are shown to be Beautiful, lively and well taken care of, with the bugs themselves seeming to have a well organized and peacefull society up until the arrival of the terrain federation and them essentially ruining everything.
Make it obvious that the only reason for the war between the bugs going on is because the facist need some sort of distraction to avoid their population turning on them. Heck, they even should have kept in the whole subplot with the skinies just modified to show how disfunction, brainwashed, and mindlessly destructive the terrain federation is.
That sounds a lot like Argentina with Galtieri.
@OctyabrAprelya I mean the main character is from Argentina lol.
Yeah, that's my main criticism, satire or not. Humans are shown to live in what is basically a utopia with no hunger, internal wars, poverty or homelessness. Not exactly making an argument against fascism as a world government.
Actually its Carmens fault the Meteor struck Earth. She replotted the course and via the collision changed the course of the Meteor 😮.
THIS
Reminds me of Nietzsche's remarks on morality being subject to aesthetic standards.
1:45 It was supposed to be the bugs that threw the rock at the Earth but it was only after the humans had already invaded bug space and many bugs had been killed.
Also - the bugs doing it or not doesn't matter, the spaceships they have indicates no comet or whatever is going to reach the surface of the earth.
Everything you said is wrong but you have my forgiveness.
The Soviet military problem was not industry overall, they had plenty of tanks, airplanes and other weapons. What they had a problem with was trains and trucks, that is to say logistics. This was because of two reasons, first being the distances involved being inherently a challenge and secondly central planning not considering logistics as important.
With the huge industrial and materiel losses the Soviets suffered at the start of Barbarossa, this is where Lend-Lease becomes load-bearing in how critical it was. American material aid not only allowed Soviet industry to focus solely on war production (not all that well because of all the corners that got cut to maximize production, the wartime production quality of the T-34 for example was comically abysmal and the biggest reason the Germans had such a massive K/D ratio in regards to tanks) because everything else could be covered by L-L, and very crucially for the eventual counter-offensive American auto industry could single-handedly motorize the Red Army's logistics as a side hustle (with the Studebaker trucks also being superior to any kind of truck the Soviets could have produced even in pre-war conditions).
I think a big part of Paul Verhoven’s vision was making it sexy - because that’s the way they view themselves. The trick is seeing past the sexiness to see the rot beneath. The second they start talking about violence as the main source of all power in a high school history class should have already set off alarm bells in the first 10 minutes of the movie.
That's Doogie Himmler there.
If you want an idea of how WW1 generals talked, watch Kubrick's "Paths of Glory" some time. There you can see the French officers lounging in Versailles and speaking of their own soldiers with utter derision.
Kursk is the closest thing to a movie battle that has ever happened irl. Was always my fave battle as a kid.
In almost every case, satires of fascism are going to go over the heads of fascists, because they are incapable of media literacy.
Jojo Rabbit is one of a very few exceptions to this, and a contributing factor is that the main plot literally is a boy outgrowing his nazi beliefs, so it'd be an impressive feat to misinterpret that.
Does this mean that Starship Troopers could be more on the nose? Well yeah, obviously.
But it doesn't mean that it's bad satire, because anyone with their head on straight can see that it's not an endorsement of the society depicted in it.
Saw the same issue yesterday. Someone was claiming that old Star Trek, Star Wars, and Twilight Zone would be considered center right or right wing. They agree with those messages but they're too stupid to realize the right doesn't so they just claim it for themselves without thinking about what's in those shows
Would you like to know more?
For those who haven't seen it yet, Knowing Better has a very good video essay on Starship Troopers. He talks about both the books and the movie and the differences between the two.
what the fuck is this comment section...? Vaush is objectively correct in this.
the original title of the video was implying vaush had a different opinion
Now you know why vaush hates his chat
He's not though, the federation is objectively not fascist in the slightest
Bugs are beautiful! -Bug Advocacy Anarchists
the Sherman was the best tank in the war from the standpoint of logistics. it was designed to be easy to transport, maintain, and supply because the war was across an ocean. chieftain did a good video on it. some people are impressed because russia made more t34s, but we were busy building 23! essex fleet carriers.
The whole point of the movie was that they were living in a Fascist society and had absolutely no idea they were.
Starship Troopers is bad satire, but only because the bar was not only lowered, they dug a trench to place it in.
Why is it bad?
@he_Car is bad in the sense that is not effective. fascist can ignore the "satire" and adopt it as is. that's why they happily quote "The Only Good Bug Is A Dead Bug!", people with right wing biases also miss the memo and even non-rightwingers criticized it for being a propaganda movie when it released... it goes whoosh over most people heads.
other than that, the movie is good.
@@Stop_The_Car Because when you're satirizing fascism, you're supposed to have the "bad guys" actually be good guys that you sympathize with. The problem with starship troopers is that the bad guys are giant alien bug monsters, I don't care how much you try to make them sympathetic to people, people are going to instinctually want to kill them. Even if they weren't giants, or alien, people would still want to kill them.
When your only two real options are the fascist government or giant alien bug monsters, people are gonna side with the fascists because the only good bug is a dead bug.
There's also other stuff like how the mobile infantry got massacred the first time they fight the bugs, they're supposed to be portrayed as incompetent, but again, there's nothing to contrast them with except bug monsters, so instead of looking like incompetence, it looks like bravery in the face of overwhelming odds.
It's good satire cause every time a fascist says that they like the movie you can just point out to them, "hey, you know that movie is making fun of you right?" And then they have to think, to whatever degree they're capable.
@scool they are not dumb, they will laugh in your face and call you a bug lover.
leftists are too smug to catch the plot of what's going on around them, i wonder who is the one slow on the mind after all.
To my understanding, the bugs did throw the meteor at earth, but it was the humans who had invaded their territory and established a Mormon outpost on their planet.
"What? Loki can't be the bad guy, he's attractive!"
Omg I love JoJo rabbit I've watched it a tonne of times
i would like to know more !
I watched it for the first time at 17 or 18 yo. Some of the satire was lost on me, but the "I'm doing my part" commercials I definitely remember getting.
The problem is that Heinlein is the high overgod of creepy nerds, and even his 'nono, it's a devil's advocate for fascism' argument got twisted into 'Heinlein gud' by... well, the American military.
Verhoeven knew exactly what he was doing. His biggest domestic hits were: essentially a Beverly Hilbillies clone with very charming and likeable crooks living in a rich suburb. And 'Soldier of Oranje' a war film about fighter pilots in-exile.
*They gave the Robocop guy a novel on the **_celebration of fascism._** What were they expecting?!*
Starship Troopers is one of my favorite movies. My left wing friends like it because its a fun satire and my right wing friends like it cuz they don't believe its satire. Its fun for the whole friend group
Another thing to consider in looking back at how toe Soviet's defended their territory in WW2; The USSR did not start effectively industrializing its industry until 1929. In comparison, the U.S. and Britain started industrializing wayyyyyy earlier than that (~1800-1900). They simply did what they had to at the start of the war, and by the end of it they were dumpstering the Nazis.
German weaboos talk about the Tiger tank like it was a mythical anime katana.
Put enough armor and the biggest gun you have on a over engineered chassis and people tend to ignore the fact that a tiny bit of Russian mud will cripple
it.
I never got how anybody could assume Harrison meant the world of Starship Troopers to be seen as an utopia, when it's so obvious a dystopian setting.
But to be fair, IIRC the humans in the book weren't half a harebrained as in the movie.
Starship Troopers is a GREAT MOVIE. I haven't watched this video but I wanted to post this because I love the movie
When I watched it in Germany, the moment the Psy-Corp officer with the SS uniform appeared, the entire audience burst out laughing! 😀
We understood.
Not gonna lie. So did I. Never sat down and watched the whole thing though.
sHitler smokes throughout Jojo Rabbit.
People pointed out to the director that adi was very much anti-tobacco.
_"Yeah... I didn't think he was worth the respect of getting accurate"_
People have a lot of ridiculous takes on Heinlein too but going by a lot of his other books he had all sorts of visions of the future. He wrote The Cat Who Walks Through Walls too and it basically suggested everyone will end up bisexual and free to be naked and stuff
wtf based
Yes, absolutely. I read most of Heinlein's novels as a teen; in that context I took Starship troopers as a thought exercise, neither an endorsement or condemnation of fascism, more a confrontation. "Is this what you want? Because this is as good as this can get" kind of vibe. I may be off entirely, I have not revisited any of his material in decades. But my teen brain did find the promise of SST's future quite grim, I could not wrap my head around anyone cheering for it...
@@methanemamba2461 No gay men.
He was a creep.
By the time of Kursk, the Soviets had plenty of tanks and they had learned how to use and coordinate them.
Not incompetant or clumsy, just utterly okay with taking horrendously high casualties
RW capitalist/Neo-liberal ideology right there, why they need to ensure to keep the birth rates high by any means, their whole economy Pyramid/ponzi scheme is dependent on more consumers, more bug/cannon fodder to keep the perpetual military industrial complex going.
In 1997, we got the satire of Starship Troopers. I'm not sure the same is true today.
Having watched the whole video, Vaush didn't even say that here about ST. I can maybe derive a take like that (fascists are too stupid and empty to understand a parody of their ideology, so they don't register ST is mocking them) from this clip, but he didn't actually say that.
Even Vaush's editors are putting words in his mouth, now. /s
i am getting tired of the whole "fascist are dumb and don't get it"... they are not dumb (in that regard), they know what they are doing.
idk why he changed the name of the video, the first one was better. idk if it's for click bait, but it is terrible click bait if you say the same thing about each topic.
Their “handsomeness” and such is very much deliberate..
What most people realise is that the Nazis outnumbered the Soviets up to the point where they were starting to be pushed back. A lot of the casualties came from Russia's unpreparedness and inability to coordinate a substantial defence combined with the Nazis exterminating or working to death almost every soldier they captured.
I've never read the Starship Trooper's book but neither did the director. I've heard that the regime wasn't fascist but the director first assumed it was and then thought it would be cooler. So I doubt its a satire of fascism, at least intentionally. Book describes a unique sytem of authoritarian liberal democracy. I have no idea how that would be possible, don't ask me, read the book.
Also nothing actually bad is done by the government in the movie? Even if they are fascists, movie ends in their victory and nothing bad at all happens to human society in the movies timeline. Only possibility that would make the goverment bad is if you assume bugs did not launch that meteor to earth and it was used as an excuse to destroy bugs but Its absolutely done by bugs in the book and the movie never implies othervise. And again its not even a satire intentionally. Book has nothing to do with it and the director just wanted a cool sci-fi action movie.
new title much better