How do you only have 27k subscribers? This is by FAR the best medieval armor channel I've found yet on RUclips. Mr. Laspina, keep it up! You're doing awesome!
DON'T DO IT! This is such a fantastic channel for information and you go into detail and show sources, I'd hate to see you do videogames. :( You had that video about fantasy armour, but at least that was in regards to your input to make it more accurate and functional. And by that, I mean it's your channel so do what you want. I'm just putting in my opinion. :)
Ha! Well, to be honest, I often struggle with the idea that in order to get people in the door I have to do something with wide appeal, and hopefully they stay for the other stuff. But at the same time I feel like that wouldn't be quite in keeping with what I do on the channel, or what my audience expects. I've also rejected offers of sponsorship from companies that other historical channels use, because I don't want them to influence what I can and cannot make. Maybe I'm artificially limiting the growth of the channel that way, I don't know. Maybe I'm not thinking hard enough of a way to make a 'wide appeal' video that still has a lot of historical value. I'm fully aware that my delivery is dry and people looking for entertainment probably click away after the first 30 seconds though. Making these videos can feel very Sisyphean at times when I try to systematically show how real armor works only to see that the next day a much bigger channel reaches several hundred thousand people with a video review of improperly made armor or absurd arming garments that prevent you from moving in harness... oh well... sorry for the rant! :)
Knyght Errant Don't say sorry, like I say I think you're the best armor channel out there. I LOVE the dry delivery. To me that means you're not resorting to tom-foolery to get noticed. Ye-olde-looking drawings are a really nice touch, and the obvious research you do shows that you respect my time enough to give me solid information. Maybe think laterally? Contact university history departments on series they might make use of (and pay for), or save up money from your patreons to go to the Wallace collection perhaps and see some armor first had. How about a video tour of your next living history event? A knyght errant t shirt? JUST DON'T GIVE GIVE UP!
It's really fascinating learning about those specific little tailoring tricks that were used to give mail the necessary range of motion without making the armor extra baggy and thus heavier than desired. Thats been something I've wondered about since I came to the realization that mail can't function quite like fabric does because iron rings, in effect, won't stretch like a fiber weave will.
I'm so envious of your tailoring skills. Is there any chance that you might discuss sewing cloth/leather to maille? Or maybe some close ups? I'm never quite sure what stitch to use, or whether to pass the thread just though the ring, or over where the rings intersect.
"How do you connect mail, to the human body" Ah, now we get to the part where Ian is going to explain the piercings. How you made holes in the skin and had mail rings go through ;) **shudders in disgust, at the idea**
Would you consider making a video about cleaning the various parts of armor (metal and cloth)? Perhaps including both historical and modern ways of doing it.
I've long thought mail sleeves might have been sewn to a fabric shirt, perhaps with a stout piece of canvas linking them across the shoulder. Thank you for finally showing me that!
Nice video. Thank you by the way, I just received my own mail sleeves and I was precisely searching for a correct method. I had this system in mind, but thanks to your video, I will not do the mistakes that you prevented for.
I'm seeing gray in you beard... Just how old are you? According to your previous videos, I'm guessing late 30's to early 40's, but hell if I know. You look like you could be as young as 25.
Thanks for sticking around that long! :) Matt's mention a couple years ago was the single biggest boost this channel has ever received, and I'm glad that many of the people who saw it still find my content worthwhile.
Another great video! If you someday get around to more on the subject, not that you haven't covered it fully with this video, please show some close-ups of the tailoring at the elbow and the taper to the sleeve.I've always been curious about the appearance of the contractions for open hang mail. I'm aware of how to do it, but I've never done so and would like to see how it looks when properly done.Thanks for sharing!
There is so much aesthetic in well made armor... Just awsom. To my intention there is missing an aditional stripe of linen to the bottom of the mail, though that might be realy impractical.
6:05 the most left hand figure, in the image, is carrying the rest of the armor! All four of the figures have tails for tying the plate armor over their current attire. This was probably mail to cover sections not covered by plate armor.
It is now time to create your 1400 century historical instrumented ZZ TOP band! =D Oh yeah, nice mail sleeve-vest, I'd call it vest then due to the cloth shape.
If you are a history fan, visit the Tower of London. Then the Army Museum. Then the RAF Museum at Hendon. Then the Imperial War Museum in South London. Then the Imperial War Museum at Leeds. The UK has so much history to visit.
I would really, really like to learn how to make stuff like this. Plate, mail and everything else that goes into making armor. I've learned a little bit by using galvanized, butted mail but I guess that's not nearly as cool as the real riveted stuff. Can't wait to see the next video!
I was just about to ask if the mail sleeves were going to be a possible replacement for the mail shirt until you mentioned a later video. I'm keen to see how this goes :-)
Hi Ian, did you have a source of how to build such arms by yourself? Especially the elbow section ist quite interesting. The tutorials I found in the Internet all tell you building arms like tubes but I found nothing for the elbow stuff. Thanks a lot.
Ian, I recently read maille was sometimes made with measurements to a person like plate was, so it was like a second skin. I have never heard anything like this before. do you have any comment on it?
Mail comes in a variety of qualities. High end mail was absolutely tailored and fitted to the individual wearer. Most depictions of full mail harness in artwork show very closely fitting mail that permits almost full mobility. It's not bulky and hanging off the wearer like a lot of modern re-enactors tend to convey. This is also backed up by surviving mail garments. The Wallace Collection has a number of very well fitted and tailored coats of mail. Properly fit mail is essential both for the older mail-only style armors of the Crusader era and earlier as well as when it was only worn as a secondary defense to plate armors. It's that fit and tailoring that not only reduces unnecessary weight, but allows the individual inside to move without excessive restrictions when fighting.
Knyght Errant huh thanks for the reply. I always just thought it was rather loose, larger armor that could just be switched around with (almost) everyone.
The highly tailored and fitted pieces are going to be more the domain of professional men-at-arms/knights, while looser fitted pieces are probably going to be available to outfit larger numbers of less equipped infantry.
Good video, just curious how much "roughly" did your armor cost? Not just your maille sleeves, all of it. Maybe do a video(s) on acquiring, purchasing, measuring for fit of armor?
How does it feel to wear and use compared to the complete shirt? A lot lighter ofc but does putting all the weight on the shoulders make a difference? Also if you change your breastplate how hard would it be to add or remove rows of rings to make sure that protection isn't compromised? Was that done?
I wonder if the new cuirass would have something like a gorget to protect the base of the neck now that the mail doesn't reach there. Or will the aventail take care of that?
"If you want to read more about the specifics in the Tower of London inventory...link in the description below to Dr. Thom Rhichardson's Thesis." Yes, yes I do want to read more. Because I'm a giant nerd.
This looks like it would be a great budget piece for a Yeoman who already posses a Brig and a set of brig-style gauntlets with splinted wrist protection, especially if worn with a mail skirt.
Quick hypothetical question: in a world where dragons are the ones wearing armor, would they benefit from chain mail? They would mostly be defending against claw strikes and fire breath. Would the mail deflect the claws, or would the claws pass through and/or get tangled in the mail? Would tangling enemy claws be an advantage or a disadvantage? Would wearing mail in addition to armor add too much weight for aerial fights?
ookaookaooka Well. I reckon a rugged dragon's exoskeleton/scales would far outmatch pesky steel plate or chainmail. I doubt it COULD slow down a dragon for it's sheer strength and force alone. I imagine getting a claw tangled up could become a problem Mai my for the attacker, but I doubt dragon's claws COULDN'T tear through chainmail. All in all, dragons wearing armour is pretty redundant and in effective, remember, that dragons really thrive on the fact that they're so quick and agile aswell as strong and regal Good meme-question though
I wonder how the tower could have an inventory of maille sleeves. It seems like they would have to be well tailored as you suggest to actually fit and function under arm harness. Maybe they would be issued and then adjusted afterwards
They aren't necessarily issued to people wearing full arm harness. The guys in fancy full armor, are going to have their own stuff. Some of the entries in the tower inventories also pre-date full articulated arm harnesses, where floating components are much easier to fit.
Looking forward to that new cuirass, I do like backplates better aesthetically than the shirt. Btw did you put wax in your bascinet when you took it apart the other day?
How about straightening of arms? It seems like there isn't too much problem, but I'm not the one wearing it so I can't exactly tell. Does the sleeve for instance rise as you straighten your arm completely? If so that could make the sleeve slowly slide out of the vambrace. Also I love the tease of a new early 15th century harness ;)
There is more than enough room to straighten the arm completely with no restrictions. It won't pull out of the vambrace. You would only risk pulling out of the vambrace if the underlap of the mail was inadequate (like 1 cm of underlap or something very short).
Here's a video discussing that (ruclips.net/video/qutBmwJCV4Q/видео.html), but unless there are other defenses in place, I don't think it makes too much sense if you have access to a full mail shirt.
I have a question not really related to the video but about mail armour itself. I'm planning on making my own hauberk but I don't really know what to use. I know that high carbon steel is the best for reenactment but it's relatively expensive and can easily rust if you don't clean it often and well enough so I was thinking about making my own hauberk out of stainless steel. Would it look relatively similar and be strong enough to call it a battle ready piece of armour? If it's not suitable, what would be some good alternatives to make a relatively decent hauberk that would not rust as easily?
Do they have Mail Pants of any sort? Like to protect the back of the legs. I notice that on Plate Armor, the back of the thigh is exposed, I'm sure to allow more comfortable sitting on a horse.
Full mail pants were not really used anymore by the time plate leg harness was common (it would still be used by people who might not have access to plate legs though). Instead what we see are small patches of mail sewn onto the clothing beneath the armor that fill in some of the gaps left by plate legs, like behind the knee. We tend to see that more on dismounted men-at-arms, as on horseback it's not needed.
and I noticed that a lot of people use undyed linen arming doublets when the ones they wear normally are died bright colours. but why leave it with a colour that will look dirty with use. what I'm asking is are there any examples of bright coloured arming doublets?
I think it would be historical. I chose not to do it because I need to be able to wear my regular breastplate as well, and that means I need to wear my full mail shirt. I didn't want to have to remove and re-attach the mail sleeves every time.
Ahh... that'd be a pain. I'm planning on making a coat of plates, and really don't need to wear my full maille shirt, I just need maille sleeves and a maille skirt, and I thought it'd be more convenient attaching them directly to the gambeson (at the same time keeping it as historical as possible) thanks for letting me know and Keep up the great work on your channel!
Nice video. I'm sure you have seen the old Milanese armor of Tobias Capwell with the full mail shirt and mail skirt. What's the rational for wearing such a heavier setup? Did Italian men-at-arms expect heavier blows from weapons? Besides that the sleeves of the mail shirt also emerge from under the pauldrons and cover the upper arm over the plate protection there, is this a stylistic thing or did it serve a distinct purpose?
More protection, obviously. It depends on the exact era of his kit, but back in this time, if it is from an earlier design, you would be wary of plate only, as the technology had not reached it's peak. And if you can wear it without hindrance, why not?
A lot of the Italian armors are optimized for cavalry use. Maybe they preferred the redundancy of an extra layer (sometimes two) of mail in the event of a particularly well-placed lance strike? I don't know, I'm just speculating. As far the shoulders go, it's very possible that they are double layered as well with a layer of mail over the upper arm protection and voiders underneath.
I know they were fans of cavalry but a layer of mail under plate armor does sound a little redundant. Now I am curious if Western Europe also had men-at-arms wearing full shirts under middle to late 15th century, that would tell let us have a glimpse in the past and the protective value of plate armor.
is the first time i write you, and let me tell you i have lern so much from your videos,!!!! and now i have a simple question. Am lerning how to make my own riveted mail armor, how ever i have no clue how to make it tailored, can you help me please???
There are about 9,000 rings _per sleeve_ in my pair, so approximately 18,000 rings total. When you go from the more common 9mm mail to 6mm mail (which is what these sleeves are) you end up using about 270% more rings per square unit surface area.
This video makes me curious of something. I noticed that your sleeves, here, don't go to your wrist. Is there a reason for that, and if so, would that make it disadvantageous to have a set that did go all the way to the wrist?
These will be worn under an English style arm harness, so they only need to be long enough to tuck neatly inside and be captured by the lower cannon of the vambrace. Going all the way to the wrist would just be excess mail in my case. 10:20
I made it myself. I used this pattern to make it after a number of adjustments to get it to fit me better - www.lulu.com/shop/tasha-kelly/the-pourpoint-of-charles-de-blois/paperback/product-22344252.html
There are a variety of ways to tailor mail, very analogous to tailoring techniques in fabric. Yes, these violations to the standard 4-in-1 pattern are known as expansion or contraction rings. They are used for enlarging or tapering a circumference respectively. By placing strategic contraction rings (which essentially removes a ring from a row) ever few rows you can control how quickly a tube tapers. Other tailoring techniques found in mail are the inclusion of gores (triangular expansions) and the reverse, which is a dart (a triangular section that has been removed). Historical mail, especially the higher end examples were highly tailored to the body of the wearer to both minimize weight and waist of material, but also to make it far more mobile.
The sleeve tailoring makes sense; I found a video of a guy explaining the techniques using butted mail. Would the darts and gores be done during the initial manufacture of the garment, or would they be part of a process of tailoring a mail-shirt to the man who would wear it?
It is unknown, as there isn't much detailed evidence for the specific details of the process, only the end results. In many surviving garments, the rings used to tailor are slightly different than the majority of the rings in the rest of the garment. This is interesting because it may suggest that apprentices were essentially weaving big sheets of mail, then a master would come along after the fact and insert tailoring rings where needed or remove rings, cut it to fit etc., for a client or for a general off-the-rack size. For the high end stuff, it's most likely the garment was tailored to the individual, so this work would be done during fittings or to measurements.
What about changing the direction of the chain rings of the arms by 90°. So a hit with a weapon would glance of (at least more often) and not hook in the rings. Even with blunt weapons I have the experience that eg against axes they will more rip the chainmail down which costs much power to withstand. I hope you understand what I want to say. Instead of this in the arms: shoulder OOOO OOOO made from left to right -> OOOO OOOO hand more like this: shoulder () () () () () () Î made from up to down () () () () () () hand
Are you getting a completely new set of 15th century armour or is it just the a breastplate or also backplate? Either way im looking forward to se the new armourpieces. I love your content alot, its very cool and interesting.
Just a few components that will enable me to reconfigure my armor to ca. 1415 as opposed to the more ca. 1390 configuration people are used to seeing me in.
Was there ever a mail skirt attached to the mail sleeves to the low abdomen area that would cover the area normally covered by the fauld and tascits? I am thinking about higher mobility, wearing mail sleeves and breast plate with attached mail skirt to cover the lower abdomen normally covered by the fauld
Mail sleeves and skirts are commonly worn together but they are not attached to each other, they are separate mail garments. In the inventories of the Tower of London Armoury during the 14th century, mail _sleeves and paunces_ (skirts) are often listed as sets. If a person is wearing a breastplate with no backplate or fauld, it would most likely be worn with a full coat of mail, not just a pair of sleeves and a skirt though. The sleeves and skirt would normally be worn with a more complete torso protection, serving as a supplement to it and covering any gaps left by that defense. ruclips.net/video/qutBmwJCV4Q/видео.html
@@KnyghtErrant gotcha thanks! Further questions. I watched your recent (2020) video on quality of arms. I am writing a fantasy novel that has 14-15th century arms with fantasy elements. My main character starts out poor and slowly obtains gear and eventually is bestowed a holy gear set by his diety. The curaiss from the kertzberg/Leeds armories called CH37 and CH38 interest me for my poor character's starting gear. My question: is it possible to put these curaisses on by yourself. If they were hinged on one side and buckled on the other and the shoulder straps attached front and back. Sometimes my character is adventuring alone and there is no one to help arm him. Weight is no issue as it is dealt with via fantasy elements. I am looking for a full curaiss with rigid back defence with attached short fauld that my main character can put on by themselves. I love the look of CH37 and CH38. I do not think a fauld is easy to put on by yourself? Also my character is an infantryman so maybe small tassets would help. But it still brings it back to whether or not he can arm himself front and back using CH37 or CH38. Sorry for the ramble, I absolutely love your channel!!!
Thank you, glad you're enjoying the channel! Putting on a plate cuirass by yourself can be very challenging if not impossible in most historical configurations. Churburg 37 and 38 are just breastplates, they're not intended to be worn with a backplate. That configuration is also difficult to put on by yourself. You'd normally have two crisscrossing straps for the upper back and a single strap across the natural waist. You can theoretically buckle the shoulder straps first and then try to slink into it and maybe with a little bit of contortion try to get the waist strap cinched down, but it would be really difficult to get it adjusted just right in a timely and efficient way. That could be an option though. You could certainly add a backplate to it in a fantasy setting if you wanted it to be a full cuirass. In some configurations it's not so much that you can't get the armor to sit on your body by yourself, but getting it adjusted and strapped in a way that ensures adequate function _is a problem_ by yourself. There are some configurations of historical cuirass where it is hinged on one side along the lateral centerline and buckled down the opposite side. It might be possible to get into something like that by yourself, but you might have to take some liberties to allow the necessary flexibility. In real life they would be put on with help. The easiest type of torso defense to get into by yourself would be a front-closing pair of plates (coat of plates) or later brigandine style armor (I'm not trying to be rude, but I know Shadiversity recently released a popular video about brigandines, I would heavily caution against using that information in a historical context, that's not how real medieval brigs looked or how they were constructed). Once you solve the torso protection though, you've also got arms to worry about if you intend for your character to wear arm harness. Arms and shoulder defenses are also for the most part impossible to put on by yourself if they fit correctly. In the context of historical armies this isn't really an issue, men-at-arms had servants to help and lower status infantry had each other, but it presents a problem for realistic fantasy scenarios where you want someone to be able to arm by themselves.
@@KnyghtErrant fantastic info! Thank you!!!I I greatly appreciate it! Yes I have seen Shad's video and I'm not keen on that. I like scholagladiatoria's vid and yours on brigandines and coat of plates. My character has companions for the majority but he spends a lot of time on his own going from place to place solving problems and healing the sick (paladin/cleric type) so I will definitely need to adjust his kit based on what you've said. It's hard being a knight errant off on your own in real life lol. For arm protection I didn't think it would be too hard to do full plate but after watching you and jason from Modern History TV get dressed in your armour I will need to figure something else out. What are your suggestions for arm protection that my character can put on themselves? Gauntlets, pauldrons, and vambracers? I'd like him to be as armoured as possible that he can put on by himself and ensure mobility as he adventures around a lot. He fights with shield and mace with a messer as back up. He needs a lot of armour to deal with a variety of fantasy creatures (dragons, trolls, demons, skeletons, bears, giants, wolves, bandits etc.) What are your suggestions for the max amount and type of armour for an adventurer (head to toe)? I had hoped for kettle helm, breastplate with attached fauld, mail sleeves and paunce, pauldrons, plate arms and gauntlets, leg protection and normal hiking type boots. He traverses mostly cold mountains, grasslands, forests, swamps, tombs, caves, and has to deal with intense winter conditions (Skyrim). What armour is most versatile for this adventuring? Could you make straps for a breast plate that are so long that you criss cross them all the way around your back to the front and buckle them in the front? Same for the waist strap, have it super long and wrap it around your torso and buckle in the front. This way I can have a breastplate and add in other specific arm pieces. I can always beef up "less protective" types of armour and mail via fantasy elements after all to ensure he can arm himself yet have the equivalent protection of full plate.
I think you may have misunderstood. Mail sleeves _as a separate object_ not associated with mail hauberk or haubergeon came about in the early 14th century. Coats of mail had been used for far longer than the Middle Ages.
My ca.1380-1400 breastplate has no backplate and there are a lot of other configurations of 14th century torso armor that would be better off with a full mail shirt because of the coverage they provide, for more - ruclips.net/video/qutBmwJCV4Q/видео.html
Are you asking how _well_ it fits without mail? It fits just fine if I leave the mail off. The fabric tends to fill the void of where the mail used to be since the mail compresses the fabric otherwise.
No problem. If it were a completely unpadded garment, going from mail to no mail could make your arm harness a little roomy though depending on how closely fit it was made to be.
Great vid, +Knyght Errant ! If you see this comment, I was hoping to ask you something I can find no information on, save one source. Triplex Plate Armour. They discovered an example dated to the War of the Roses at the Royal Armoury of Leeds. They even had a reproduction made by A Plaisance Armouries for a crossbow and musket proofing test, and the documentary talks up the armour the best they can: ruclips.net/video/d3yNG8HT6rQ/видео.htmlm56s I find the technology fascinating and would love to learn more, but I haven't been able to find any other material on the subject. I was hoping you might know some source I could look into on this.
Bruh I love medieval Stuff like armor, I can tolerate all kinds of videos if the subject is medieval things, but this guy puts me to sleep, I didnt came to watch your face mate, put more images or something related to the subject please pretty please
I'm so envious of your tailoring skills. Is there any chance that you might discuss sewing cloth/leather to maille? Or maybe some close ups? I'm never quite sure what stitch to use, or whether to pass the thread just though the ring, or over where the rings intersect.
The mail is held to the fabric with a simple whip-stitch using a heavy waxed linen thread. The stitching is ultimately temporary, as it would need to be cut free any time you need to clean the mail, but it is sturdy enough to hold it on in use.
something I'm interested in that nobody seems to have talked about is horse armor
Worst Oblivion DLC.
This would be a great topic for a video
Don't be ridiculous. Horses can't make armor.
@@matcaissie8937 Now the worst Skyrim Creation
His audio quality is amazing. Does he hide a microphone in his beard?
Rebypox no, he hides a longsword there
The Aussie Bogan I thought he hides a long sword in his pants.
That's not a beard, it's a face-mounted windscreen.
@@hoop6988 you hope*
Is ir me or knyght errant's beard Gets more epic with Every video
Sebastian L F Camon yes beards tend to grow with time
Mine does not :( So sad...
joe kurtz got a source for that?
FinStabilisedDiscardingSabot dammit , you got me
it does. I love you Ian.
How do you only have 27k subscribers? This is by FAR the best medieval armor channel I've found yet on RUclips. Mr. Laspina, keep it up! You're doing awesome!
Not enough videos on katanas and video games I suspect :)
DON'T DO IT! This is such a fantastic channel for information and you go into detail and show sources, I'd hate to see you do videogames. :( You had that video about fantasy armour, but at least that was in regards to your input to make it more accurate and functional.
And by that, I mean it's your channel so do what you want. I'm just putting in my opinion. :)
Agreed! But do not go down that way, i have loads of katana stuff, so i would say it is games.
Ha! Well, to be honest, I often struggle with the idea that in order to get people in the door I have to do something with wide appeal, and hopefully they stay for the other stuff. But at the same time I feel like that wouldn't be quite in keeping with what I do on the channel, or what my audience expects. I've also rejected offers of sponsorship from companies that other historical channels use, because I don't want them to influence what I can and cannot make. Maybe I'm artificially limiting the growth of the channel that way, I don't know. Maybe I'm not thinking hard enough of a way to make a 'wide appeal' video that still has a lot of historical value. I'm fully aware that my delivery is dry and people looking for entertainment probably click away after the first 30 seconds though. Making these videos can feel very Sisyphean at times when I try to systematically show how real armor works only to see that the next day a much bigger channel reaches several hundred thousand people with a video review of improperly made armor or absurd arming garments that prevent you from moving in harness... oh well... sorry for the rant! :)
Knyght Errant Don't say sorry, like I say I think you're the best armor channel out there. I LOVE the dry delivery. To me that means you're not resorting to tom-foolery to get noticed. Ye-olde-looking drawings are a really nice touch, and the obvious research you do shows that you respect my time enough to give me solid information. Maybe think laterally? Contact university history departments on series they might make use of (and pay for), or save up money from your patreons to go to the Wallace collection perhaps and see some armor first had. How about a video tour of your next living history event? A knyght errant t shirt? JUST DON'T GIVE GIVE UP!
Yay, a Knyght Errant video!
I like how someone saved a receipt for 700 years.
I love this channel
It's really fascinating learning about those specific little tailoring tricks that were used to give mail the necessary range of motion without making the armor extra baggy and thus heavier than desired. Thats been something I've wondered about since I came to the realization that mail can't function quite like fabric does because iron rings, in effect, won't stretch like a fiber weave will.
I'm so envious of your tailoring skills. Is there any chance that you might discuss sewing cloth/leather to maille? Or maybe some close ups? I'm never quite sure what stitch to use, or whether to pass the thread just though the ring, or over where the rings intersect.
Great video, I am looking forward to seeing these being worn with a cuirass.
A great video as usual. Continue the good work.
Thanks always for iteresting videos!
"How do you connect mail, to the human body"
Ah, now we get to the part where Ian is going to explain the piercings. How you made holes in the skin and had mail rings go through ;) **shudders in disgust, at the idea**
creepy
Here to gather inspiration before I tailor my Indian mail hauberk to me. Great stuff!
Very interesting, and educational. Thank you for doing these videos.
I am going toward 1415 myself because it offers a little more choice than the 14 th century . Following your lead . Keep up the good work !
Would you consider making a video about cleaning the various parts of armor (metal and cloth)? Perhaps including both historical and modern ways of doing it.
Mail - ruclips.net/video/y2Y75iDuUZA/видео.html
Plate - ruclips.net/video/ULUWwnX8fEw/видео.html
quite a great video. Would love to see more soft kit though.
Looks absolutely amazing.
I've long thought mail sleeves might have been sewn to a fabric shirt, perhaps with a stout piece of canvas linking them across the shoulder. Thank you for finally showing me that!
Your videos are awesome as ever and your harness makes me more jealous by the month.
Nice video. Thank you by the way, I just received my own mail sleeves and I was precisely searching for a correct method. I had this system in mind, but thanks to your video, I will not do the mistakes that you prevented for.
thank you for this video, I used it while creating my first fabric bodice piece for my chainmail sleeves =)
Your beard is getting magnificent.
Thanks, it was the hardest part of my kit to get :)
I'm seeing gray in you beard... Just how old are you?
According to your previous videos, I'm guessing late 30's to early 40's, but hell if I know. You look like you could be as young as 25.
That's a fine pair of mail sleeves!
I was looking at an old video, I have been watching this channel ever since Scholagladiatoria made a video about you two years ago. Wow.
Thanks for sticking around that long! :) Matt's mention a couple years ago was the single biggest boost this channel has ever received, and I'm glad that many of the people who saw it still find my content worthwhile.
A lot has happened in the last two years and this channel continues to be a treasure. Thank you.
This looks so good, I want the same so I can go to work with it :D
Another great video! If you someday get around to more on the subject, not that you haven't covered it fully with this video, please show some close-ups of the tailoring at the elbow and the taper to the sleeve.I've always been curious about the appearance of the contractions for open hang mail. I'm aware of how to do it, but I've never done so and would like to see how it looks when properly done.Thanks for sharing!
Looks like a smart 70's disco jacket :D (just joking)
Very Well done informative video ! Good Work!
There is so much aesthetic in well made armor... Just awsom. To my intention there is missing an aditional stripe of linen to the bottom of the mail, though that might be realy impractical.
It wouldn't really do anything, and it would just need to be removed every time you cleaned the mail thoroughly.
Awesome video as usual!
This video is useful for my interests.
6:05 the most left hand figure, in the image, is carrying the rest of the armor! All four of the figures have tails for tying the plate armor over their current attire. This was probably mail to cover sections not covered by plate armor.
Yes of course, that's what all mail sleeves are for.
It is now time to create your 1400 century historical instrumented ZZ TOP band! =D
Oh yeah, nice mail sleeve-vest, I'd call it vest then due to the cloth shape.
I really like it, i'm probably going to go with this configuration, but i'm gonna have to find how to make it myself
Great! as always
the mail sleeves makes you look really buffed, I should get myself one and wear it under shirt :D
If you are a history fan, visit the Tower of London. Then the Army Museum. Then the RAF Museum at Hendon. Then the Imperial War Museum in South London. Then the Imperial War Museum at Leeds. The UK has so much history to visit.
smh no femail sleeve videos
Fe (iron) mail sleeves ;p
anga (iron) mail sleeves
Wizard's sleeves...
Bloody patriarchy, I tell you.
Soren G Very clever lol
I would really, really like to learn how to make stuff like this. Plate, mail and everything else that goes into making armor. I've learned a little bit by using galvanized, butted mail but I guess that's not nearly as cool as the real riveted stuff.
Can't wait to see the next video!
Eric Schmidt of the Mail Research Society has resources.
Thanks, I'll check that out :D
I was just about to ask if the mail sleeves were going to be a possible replacement for the mail shirt until you mentioned a later video. I'm keen to see how this goes :-)
maybe do a video on mail skirts too? :) I guess it would be harder if you don't have one yourself.
love the content keep it up
That would be a stylish waistcoat.
this said "6 minutes ago" and I thought i read it as months
Hi Ian,
did you have a source of how to build such arms by yourself? Especially the elbow section ist quite interesting. The tutorials I found in the Internet all tell you building arms like tubes but I found nothing for the elbow stuff. Thanks a lot.
Ian, I recently read maille was sometimes made with measurements to a person like plate was, so it was like a second skin. I have never heard anything like this before. do you have any comment on it?
Mail comes in a variety of qualities. High end mail was absolutely tailored and fitted to the individual wearer. Most depictions of full mail harness in artwork show very closely fitting mail that permits almost full mobility. It's not bulky and hanging off the wearer like a lot of modern re-enactors tend to convey. This is also backed up by surviving mail garments. The Wallace Collection has a number of very well fitted and tailored coats of mail. Properly fit mail is essential both for the older mail-only style armors of the Crusader era and earlier as well as when it was only worn as a secondary defense to plate armors. It's that fit and tailoring that not only reduces unnecessary weight, but allows the individual inside to move without excessive restrictions when fighting.
Knyght Errant huh thanks for the reply. I always just thought it was rather loose, larger armor that could just be switched around with (almost) everyone.
The highly tailored and fitted pieces are going to be more the domain of professional men-at-arms/knights, while looser fitted pieces are probably going to be available to outfit larger numbers of less equipped infantry.
Good video, just curious how much "roughly" did your armor cost? Not just your maille sleeves, all of it. Maybe do a video(s) on acquiring, purchasing, measuring for fit of armor?
How does it feel to wear and use compared to the complete shirt? A lot lighter ofc but does putting all the weight on the shoulders make a difference? Also if you change your breastplate how hard would it be to add or remove rows of rings to make sure that protection isn't compromised? Was that done?
I wonder if the new cuirass would have something like a gorget to protect the base of the neck now that the mail doesn't reach there. Or will the aventail take care of that?
Andrew Suryali the aventail does protect.
That mail collar would still be worn in addition to the sleeves, just like with the shirt.
Oh, I see. Thanks for the explanation.
Andrew Suryali o
"If you want to read more about the specifics in the Tower of London inventory...link in the description below to Dr. Thom Rhichardson's Thesis." Yes, yes I do want to read more. Because I'm a giant nerd.
This looks like it would be a great budget piece for a Yeoman who already posses a Brig and a set of brig-style gauntlets with splinted wrist protection, especially if worn with a mail skirt.
Does anyone else think Knight Errant looks like Ian Mccallum from Forgotten Weapons?
You're not alone, I get that on all my videos :)
@@KnyghtErrant I'm a huge fan of both channels, I wonder if we'll ever see a collaboration.
It still looks like it is stretched quite taught across the chest, even at rest. Though I suppose that it is the weight of the sleeves.
Yes, when the rest of the armor is on, I suspect it will help hold them in place a little better.
Nice vid, great channel and even greater beard. That's a sub.
Thank you, and the beard says welcome to the channel!
Quick hypothetical question: in a world where dragons are the ones wearing armor, would they benefit from chain mail? They would mostly be defending against claw strikes and fire breath. Would the mail deflect the claws, or would the claws pass through and/or get tangled in the mail? Would tangling enemy claws be an advantage or a disadvantage? Would wearing mail in addition to armor add too much weight for aerial fights?
ookaookaooka Well. I reckon a rugged dragon's exoskeleton/scales would far outmatch pesky steel plate or chainmail. I doubt it COULD slow down a dragon for it's sheer strength and force alone. I imagine getting a claw tangled up could become a problem Mai my for the attacker, but I doubt dragon's claws COULDN'T tear through chainmail.
All in all, dragons wearing armour is pretty redundant and in effective, remember, that dragons really thrive on the fact that they're so quick and agile aswell as strong and regal
Good meme-question though
I wonder how the tower could have an inventory of maille sleeves. It seems like they would have to be well tailored as you suggest to actually fit and function under arm harness. Maybe they would be issued and then adjusted afterwards
They aren't necessarily issued to people wearing full arm harness. The guys in fancy full armor, are going to have their own stuff. Some of the entries in the tower inventories also pre-date full articulated arm harnesses, where floating components are much easier to fit.
Looking forward to that new cuirass, I do like backplates better aesthetically than the shirt. Btw did you put wax in your bascinet when you took it apart the other day?
No, I've not tried waxing the inside of the helmet.
Where can I find information on these tailoring mail sleeves?
I thought I read somewhere that mail gauntlets were in use during the third crusade starting in 1189?
How about straightening of arms? It seems like there isn't too much problem, but I'm not the one wearing it so I can't exactly tell. Does the sleeve for instance rise as you straighten your arm completely? If so that could make the sleeve slowly slide out of the vambrace. Also I love the tease of a new early 15th century harness ;)
There is more than enough room to straighten the arm completely with no restrictions. It won't pull out of the vambrace. You would only risk pulling out of the vambrace if the underlap of the mail was inadequate (like 1 cm of underlap or something very short).
A question: would it make sence wearing simple chest plate on top of mail sleeve?
Here's a video discussing that (ruclips.net/video/qutBmwJCV4Q/видео.html), but unless there are other defenses in place, I don't think it makes too much sense if you have access to a full mail shirt.
I have a question not really related to the video but about mail armour itself. I'm planning on making my own hauberk but I don't really know what to use. I know that high carbon steel is the best for reenactment but it's relatively expensive and can easily rust if you don't clean it often and well enough so I was thinking about making my own hauberk out of stainless steel. Would it look relatively similar and be strong enough to call it a battle ready piece of armour? If it's not suitable, what would be some good alternatives to make a relatively decent hauberk that would not rust as easily?
hey can you review the WW1 experimental armors on chubachus' channel?
If 13:37 - 13:42 isn't the best "that's what she said" joke, I don't know what is.
Anybody know what watch he is wearing?
Do they have Mail Pants of any sort? Like to protect the back of the legs. I notice that on Plate Armor, the back of the thigh is exposed, I'm sure to allow more comfortable sitting on a horse.
Full mail pants were not really used anymore by the time plate leg harness was common (it would still be used by people who might not have access to plate legs though). Instead what we see are small patches of mail sewn onto the clothing beneath the armor that fill in some of the gaps left by plate legs, like behind the knee. We tend to see that more on dismounted men-at-arms, as on horseback it's not needed.
Thanks for the reply!
I thought im genetically blessed, until i saw this beard
I'd want slightly too-long straight sleeves, so I could bunch them up a bit at the joints for my ROM.
That would have the opposite effect. The more they bunch up, the more they will bind and prevent you from moving.
Dang.
where can I buy historical mail off the shelf? I know that there is a company in Europe, but what company was it?
and I noticed that a lot of people use undyed linen arming doublets when the ones they wear normally are died bright colours. but why leave it with a colour that will look dirty with use. what I'm asking is are there any examples of bright coloured arming doublets?
I'm considering in the future, attaching my maille sleeves directly to my gambeson, would you consider that a wise idea, and would it be historical?
I think it would be historical. I chose not to do it because I need to be able to wear my regular breastplate as well, and that means I need to wear my full mail shirt. I didn't want to have to remove and re-attach the mail sleeves every time.
Ahh... that'd be a pain. I'm planning on making a coat of plates, and really don't need to wear my full maille shirt, I just need maille sleeves and a maille skirt, and I thought it'd be more convenient attaching them directly to the gambeson (at the same time keeping it as historical as possible) thanks for letting me know and Keep up the great work on your channel!
Nice video.
I'm sure you have seen the old Milanese armor of Tobias Capwell with the full mail shirt and mail skirt. What's the rational for wearing such a heavier setup? Did Italian men-at-arms expect heavier blows from weapons?
Besides that the sleeves of the mail shirt also emerge from under the pauldrons and cover the upper arm over the plate protection there, is this a stylistic thing or did it serve a distinct purpose?
DushinSC I am also curious about this, it's probably just an aesthetic thing though
More protection, obviously. It depends on the exact era of his kit, but back in this time, if it is from an earlier design, you would be wary of plate only, as the technology had not reached it's peak. And if you can wear it without hindrance, why not?
A lot of the Italian armors are optimized for cavalry use. Maybe they preferred the redundancy of an extra layer (sometimes two) of mail in the event of a particularly well-placed lance strike? I don't know, I'm just speculating. As far the shoulders go, it's very possible that they are double layered as well with a layer of mail over the upper arm protection and voiders underneath.
I know they were fans of cavalry but a layer of mail under plate armor does sound a little redundant. Now I am curious if Western Europe also had men-at-arms wearing full shirts under middle to late 15th century, that would tell let us have a glimpse in the past and the protective value of plate armor.
They had concepts such as double mail when facing powerful bows or crossbows during the crusades. The idea of adding layers of armor is simple logic.
is the first time i write you, and let me tell you i have lern so much from your videos,!!!! and now i have a simple question.
Am lerning how to make my own riveted mail armor, how ever i have no clue how to make it tailored, can you help me please???
Do you know approximately how many rings were used in the sleeves?
There are about 9,000 rings _per sleeve_ in my pair, so approximately 18,000 rings total. When you go from the more common 9mm mail to 6mm mail (which is what these sleeves are) you end up using about 270% more rings per square unit surface area.
Thanks a bunch.
It would be amazing if there are more pictures/examples throughout the video, also each of them stay on screen longer. Still an amazing channel, sub!
Same tailoring with the tight sleeves of heavy cloth uniforms.
This video makes me curious of something. I noticed that your sleeves, here, don't go to your wrist. Is there a reason for that, and if so, would that make it disadvantageous to have a set that did go all the way to the wrist?
These will be worn under an English style arm harness, so they only need to be long enough to tuck neatly inside and be captured by the lower cannon of the vambrace. Going all the way to the wrist would just be excess mail in my case. 10:20
Ah. I see. Thank you.
What would you say the weight of that is?
15:20
So much room for activities.
That very thing flashed through my mind right as I said that.... lol :)
Hi Ian - Great video! Who make the mail in your video?
facebook.com/historicallypatternedmail/
Thanks!
Do voiders have a higher risk of binding than sleeves?
Not if they're tailored well.
Hi man, can i ask where you buy you're pourpoint ?
I made it myself. I used this pattern to make it after a number of adjustments to get it to fit me better - www.lulu.com/shop/tasha-kelly/the-pourpoint-of-charles-de-blois/paperback/product-22344252.html
How do you actually tailor mail? Wouldn't any alteration to circumference require violating the four-in-one pattern?
There are a variety of ways to tailor mail, very analogous to tailoring techniques in fabric. Yes, these violations to the standard 4-in-1 pattern are known as expansion or contraction rings. They are used for enlarging or tapering a circumference respectively. By placing strategic contraction rings (which essentially removes a ring from a row) ever few rows you can control how quickly a tube tapers. Other tailoring techniques found in mail are the inclusion of gores (triangular expansions) and the reverse, which is a dart (a triangular section that has been removed). Historical mail, especially the higher end examples were highly tailored to the body of the wearer to both minimize weight and waist of material, but also to make it far more mobile.
The sleeve tailoring makes sense; I found a video of a guy explaining the techniques using butted mail. Would the darts and gores be done during the initial manufacture of the garment, or would they be part of a process of tailoring a mail-shirt to the man who would wear it?
It is unknown, as there isn't much detailed evidence for the specific details of the process, only the end results. In many surviving garments, the rings used to tailor are slightly different than the majority of the rings in the rest of the garment. This is interesting because it may suggest that apprentices were essentially weaving big sheets of mail, then a master would come along after the fact and insert tailoring rings where needed or remove rings, cut it to fit etc., for a client or for a general off-the-rack size. For the high end stuff, it's most likely the garment was tailored to the individual, so this work would be done during fittings or to measurements.
What about changing the direction of the chain rings of the arms by 90°. So a hit with a weapon would glance of (at least more often) and not hook in the rings. Even with blunt weapons I have the experience that eg against axes they will more rip the chainmail down which costs much power to withstand. I hope you understand what I want to say. Instead of this in the arms:
shoulder
OOOO
OOOO made from left to right ->
OOOO
OOOO
hand
more like this:
shoulder
() () ()
() () () Î made from up to down
() () ()
() () ()
hand
Are you getting a completely new set of 15th century armour or is it just the a breastplate or also backplate? Either way im looking forward to se the new armourpieces. I love your content alot, its very cool and interesting.
Just a few components that will enable me to reconfigure my armor to ca. 1415 as opposed to the more ca. 1390 configuration people are used to seeing me in.
Okok. Looking forward to see your new set later then.
Was there ever a mail skirt attached to the mail sleeves to the low abdomen area that would cover the area normally covered by the fauld and tascits? I am thinking about higher mobility, wearing mail sleeves and breast plate with attached mail skirt to cover the lower abdomen normally covered by the fauld
Mail sleeves and skirts are commonly worn together but they are not attached to each other, they are separate mail garments. In the inventories of the Tower of London Armoury during the 14th century, mail _sleeves and paunces_ (skirts) are often listed as sets. If a person is wearing a breastplate with no backplate or fauld, it would most likely be worn with a full coat of mail, not just a pair of sleeves and a skirt though. The sleeves and skirt would normally be worn with a more complete torso protection, serving as a supplement to it and covering any gaps left by that defense. ruclips.net/video/qutBmwJCV4Q/видео.html
@@KnyghtErrant gotcha thanks! Further questions. I watched your recent (2020) video on quality of arms. I am writing a fantasy novel that has 14-15th century arms with fantasy elements. My main character starts out poor and slowly obtains gear and eventually is bestowed a holy gear set by his diety. The curaiss from the kertzberg/Leeds armories called CH37 and CH38 interest me for my poor character's starting gear.
My question: is it possible to put these curaisses on by yourself. If they were hinged on one side and buckled on the other and the shoulder straps attached front and back. Sometimes my character is adventuring alone and there is no one to help arm him. Weight is no issue as it is dealt with via fantasy elements.
I am looking for a full curaiss with rigid back defence with attached short fauld that my main character can put on by themselves. I love the look of CH37 and CH38. I do not think a fauld is easy to put on by yourself? Also my character is an infantryman so maybe small tassets would help. But it still brings it back to whether or not he can arm himself front and back using CH37 or CH38.
Sorry for the ramble, I absolutely love your channel!!!
Thank you, glad you're enjoying the channel! Putting on a plate cuirass by yourself can be very challenging if not impossible in most historical configurations. Churburg 37 and 38 are just breastplates, they're not intended to be worn with a backplate. That configuration is also difficult to put on by yourself. You'd normally have two crisscrossing straps for the upper back and a single strap across the natural waist. You can theoretically buckle the shoulder straps first and then try to slink into it and maybe with a little bit of contortion try to get the waist strap cinched down, but it would be really difficult to get it adjusted just right in a timely and efficient way. That could be an option though. You could certainly add a backplate to it in a fantasy setting if you wanted it to be a full cuirass. In some configurations it's not so much that you can't get the armor to sit on your body by yourself, but getting it adjusted and strapped in a way that ensures adequate function _is a problem_ by yourself.
There are some configurations of historical cuirass where it is hinged on one side along the lateral centerline and buckled down the opposite side. It might be possible to get into something like that by yourself, but you might have to take some liberties to allow the necessary flexibility. In real life they would be put on with help. The easiest type of torso defense to get into by yourself would be a front-closing pair of plates (coat of plates) or later brigandine style armor (I'm not trying to be rude, but I know Shadiversity recently released a popular video about brigandines, I would heavily caution against using that information in a historical context, that's not how real medieval brigs looked or how they were constructed). Once you solve the torso protection though, you've also got arms to worry about if you intend for your character to wear arm harness. Arms and shoulder defenses are also for the most part impossible to put on by yourself if they fit correctly. In the context of historical armies this isn't really an issue, men-at-arms had servants to help and lower status infantry had each other, but it presents a problem for realistic fantasy scenarios where you want someone to be able to arm by themselves.
@@KnyghtErrant fantastic info! Thank you!!!I I greatly appreciate it! Yes I have seen Shad's video and I'm not keen on that. I like scholagladiatoria's vid and yours on brigandines and coat of plates.
My character has companions for the majority but he spends a lot of time on his own going from place to place solving problems and healing the sick (paladin/cleric type) so I will definitely need to adjust his kit based on what you've said. It's hard being a knight errant off on your own in real life lol.
For arm protection I didn't think it would be too hard to do full plate but after watching you and jason from Modern History TV get dressed in your armour I will need to figure something else out.
What are your suggestions for arm protection that my character can put on themselves? Gauntlets, pauldrons, and vambracers? I'd like him to be as armoured as possible that he can put on by himself and ensure mobility as he adventures around a lot.
He fights with shield and mace with a messer as back up. He needs a lot of armour to deal with a variety of fantasy creatures (dragons, trolls, demons, skeletons, bears, giants, wolves, bandits etc.)
What are your suggestions for the max amount and type of armour for an adventurer (head to toe)? I had hoped for kettle helm, breastplate with attached fauld, mail sleeves and paunce, pauldrons, plate arms and gauntlets, leg protection and normal hiking type boots. He traverses mostly cold mountains, grasslands, forests, swamps, tombs, caves, and has to deal with intense winter conditions (Skyrim). What armour is most versatile for this adventuring?
Could you make straps for a breast plate that are so long that you criss cross them all the way around your back to the front and buckle them in the front? Same for the waist strap, have it super long and wrap it around your torso and buckle in the front. This way I can have a breastplate and add in other specific arm pieces.
I can always beef up "less protective" types of armour and mail via fantasy elements after all to ensure he can arm himself yet have the equivalent protection of full plate.
did mail shorts exist, by any chance?
Yes, they're usually called _brayettes_ . They're kind of like mail briefs, some do have short legs on them too.
Did they have femail sleeves?
Chainmail sleeves only in early 14th century? And here I thought they had full maille suits back in 11th century, like at hastings.
I think you may have misunderstood. Mail sleeves _as a separate object_ not associated with mail hauberk or haubergeon came about in the early 14th century. Coats of mail had been used for far longer than the Middle Ages.
Why would you need a different cuirass when wearing sleeves vs. a full mail shirt?
My ca.1380-1400 breastplate has no backplate and there are a lot of other configurations of 14th century torso armor that would be better off with a full mail shirt because of the coverage they provide, for more - ruclips.net/video/qutBmwJCV4Q/видео.html
Knyght Errant Ah yes. Having no backplate would present a problem. :D
How does your arm harness fit without mail?
Are you asking how _well_ it fits without mail? It fits just fine if I leave the mail off. The fabric tends to fill the void of where the mail used to be since the mail compresses the fabric otherwise.
Awesome. Thanks.
No problem. If it were a completely unpadded garment, going from mail to no mail could make your arm harness a little roomy though depending on how closely fit it was made to be.
Interesting. I want my kit to be Bohurt friendly, but I also want it to be historical. Being able to remove the mail for melees would be very useful.
It looks just like "kote" in Japanese armor
Great vid, +Knyght Errant ! If you see this comment, I was hoping to ask you something I can find no information on, save one source.
Triplex Plate Armour. They discovered an example dated to the War of the Roses at the Royal Armoury of Leeds. They even had a reproduction made by A Plaisance Armouries for a crossbow and musket proofing test, and the documentary talks up the armour the best they can: ruclips.net/video/d3yNG8HT6rQ/видео.htmlm56s
I find the technology fascinating and would love to learn more, but I haven't been able to find any other material on the subject. I was hoping you might know some source I could look into on this.
try your brigandene?
I don't have one :)
same in century/.
So squires wore thongs over their hose?
mail crop tops are hot
Femail sleeves hehehe ;)
Bruh I love medieval Stuff like armor, I can tolerate all kinds of videos if the subject is medieval things, but this guy puts me to sleep, I didnt came to watch your face mate, put more images or something related to the subject please pretty please
Perhaps there are other channels better suited to your tastes.
I'm so envious of your tailoring skills. Is there any chance that you might discuss sewing cloth/leather to maille? Or maybe some close ups? I'm never quite sure what stitch to use, or whether to pass the thread just though the ring, or over where the rings intersect.
The mail is held to the fabric with a simple whip-stitch using a heavy waxed linen thread. The stitching is ultimately temporary, as it would need to be cut free any time you need to clean the mail, but it is sturdy enough to hold it on in use.