I REALLY love seeing a new meta form. Its an aesthetic theme to see the basic medieval infantry used in the game now. Most games were so archer/cavalry based but now we have a third major class finally being utilized :D
I hope they buff champion a little bit because they really underperform for all the resources spent on upgrading them. Maybe 2 base melee armor instead of 1 and cost less to upgrade I think
@Devon Bueno yes, but if champion were to be buffed, dev would have a lot of work to do with other unique unit infantries to balance out too. We can hope that one day, they will do
@@TheBikeOnTheMoon What I would have loved is for Champs to have just a huge pool of health and high damage. No armor, no bonus damage, but they could eat an Onager to the face and still come out swinging. If we're feeling real fancy, we could even split 2-hander/champion from the Militia line. Have it be Militia>Man>Longs, then have 2-hand be a new base unit available right in Castle, with Champion research in Imp. Split the two so they have distinct roles; Militia line becomes cheap, high armor, low damage frontline fodder, while 2-hand is the gold unit that rips trash, cav, and buildings.
@@BlueShellshock sounds like something in the beta when they did the exact same thing but for archer line, with archer being their own line and crossbow as the other. But after 20 years, I doubt they would do something like that unless you mod the game yourself.
I would love to see armys of swordman attack, like in Lord of the Ring, this epic starter scene. Always wondered why this game is all about xbows and horses. In reality a knight on a horse costs ridiculously much more than a stinknormaler soldiers with a sword.
Swords are pretty expensive when you need them in bulk. They're also relatively fragile, high-maintenance, and not easily replaceable/repairable while away from home. Normal infantry used spears, anti-infantry infantry also used spears, cavalry used spears, archers used spears, I bet even the dogs used spears.
Both knights and archers cost mostly gold. The thing is in aoe2 food is the most precious resources in the 3 first ages where vil production takes priority. To make that worse, food from farms are gathered at a much slower rate than gold from mines. And that's before any mining upgrades.
@@sanjaymatsuda4504 Swords and axes and maces etc. also had a place, even in big battles, and depending on the period and region, but you are right that polearms like spears, lances and halberds are heavily underrepresented in games and movies. Spear and shield, and especially just a long spear or even pike is much more effective in close formations with large numbers, but media likes to focus on one on one duels, and it often shows the formations breaking up into a chaotic mess of duels. Such a break of formation lead to routing, a slaughter and fast defeat in reality. Pikes with a length of 3.5 meters to 7 meters were often used several rows deep, and the men in the back could still stab at the enemy past their own front row, like with the Kamajuks in AoE 2. The Macedonians used similar tactics. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_of_pike says that pikes still decided battles into the early 18th century, before firearms took over, but even those had bajonets, which basically gives you an awkward spear after you fired your shot. It's not only that spears and pikes were a lot cheaper than most other melee weapons, they were also more effective in large, open battles. I guess that media likes to gloss over these facts, because they are less suitable for displaying your heroic protagonists or the movie star actors. Swords aren't fragile though. They wont cut right and they will start to bite and bind more if they get a few notches, but you can still fight with them, and you can at least partially mend notches in the field I think, but I would agree that they are higher maintenance than typical polearms.
Adding to that swords were used in various situations in various times and places but given how spears are so much cheaper than swords most conscripts used spears Spears were also a necessity against cavalry A sword is not going to stop a horse charge But cavalry sabers were really popular especially in later periods
You keep saying things are broken or need to be nerfed but I think your godly micro/macro makes some things shine in ways that it doesn't for the majority of the players.
Not that I'm trying to discredit his opinion. I just think it's important to remember he's one of the best players in the world and Teuton's in his hands are not the same as normal people. This is like watching a world record Olympian play.. it on a level of it's own. With APM skills like that you can make amazing things happen. I do think the farm discount is very good. Maybe too good in the hands of a macro god.
The thing with the militia line is that they get out hit-and-runned and quickwalling/building can make any raid useless early game. Archers and cavarlary have both the advantage of range and speed making them better alternatives. Personally I think the militia line need a small speed buff. This way, they can't get focused down by archer fire and getting more hits in while raiding enemy villagers
I think everyone is thinking infantry wrong. They should have increased versatility. Add the ablity to repair siege or build palisades. You know, stuff like that.
I think the spot they are at now is pretty good, while in castle age they are not very good, they should be a unit line that has enough flexibility to deal with both trash units and paladins, if they can achieve that in my books they are pretty good
I am terrible at this game but I played it for months when I was young and I would play against a ton of bots and just send MASSIVE armies of Teutonic Knights over and over again until I won. Never got old.
About low light, it's not really good for the eyes. A good way to have that low light settings wihtout putting the eyes at risk is those kind of high desktop lamp with umbrella. The lamp should go a bit higher than top of the screen and be bright so you can have it lighting the screen and the desk without having it direct into eyes while keeping that intimate feeling of low light settings and still being ergonomic. Sorry for the confuse explanation, it's not my mother tongue.
I wish it was written somewhere what civ both players are playing, easy to see which one he's playing but the opponents? Sometimes I join it at weird times and I miss the loading. I don't know civs by their shields or their upper right characters
Yeah that's what I meant, I don't recognize the unique units of each civ.. I remembered it was something starting with a B and a y somewhere in there but like couldn't remember it
? Teutons do well against cavalry and infantry civs like Slavs but have very lackluster options to deal with Britons, Ethiopians, Mayans, Mongols.... any strong ranged civ that can protect their archers with a few pikes/halbs or something.
I would like to see a mod where you have two different sets of a castle unique unit to choose from but it's the same "unit". For example, you can have war elephants that are twice the normal price but made instantly, or you could have war elephants that are half the price but take twice as long to make. It would encourage mass castles as well as being very strategic where you put them if you want to mass up a unique army, but you can also make a unit instantly to protect your castle in an emergency, and you have to choose to save your castle or your economy (by not investing so much resources in trying to save it). In a game in which victory can be a matter of seconds, it would make for interesting game play.
i really hate when i see chat commenting on Vilesse' behaviour. It's really disrespectful towards introverts. Maybe they don't look like they care about mockery, but you'd never know. It would be also cool for streamers to be more responsible and discourage this "fun"
Yeah the words “op” and “broken” are such buzzwords these days, its overused by so many people in so many games to a point that it lost its literal meaning
Why is he saying "And they WANT to buff the Longswordsmen?!" Correct me if I'm wrong or is VViper just messing around because didn't they buff all Longswordsmens last patch and give them an extra melee armor in Castle? So then Teutons got a Buff with the patch since one of there civ bonus' is infantry get +1 melee then +2 melee in castle then imp so more a less the Teutons Longswords have AN extra +2 in Castle now of melee armor if I'm not mistaken? correct? Or was this video made a while back and just added now cause I'm like why does he keep saying that when THEY DID just buff them to make them what he's using?
7/10 is a fraction* not a number you dolts. Also the 7/10 meme is only as big as it is because Viper awkwardly made a thing out of it while receiving his award.
I have been saying teutons are grossly overused on the official forum always ever since they armor over buff combined with and even farm discount improved. They have to revert the farm bonus, and maybe removed armor for cav, alternatively change the siege armor UT to instead give 1 armor to infstry and knights and give teutons instead +2/+4 free meele armor to siege. Basically swapping the two around but overall its a nerf. Teutons op. But people on the official forum still claim teutons suck. What a joke
I REALLY love seeing a new meta form. Its an aesthetic theme to see the basic medieval infantry used in the game now. Most games were so archer/cavalry based but now we have a third major class finally being utilized :D
I hope they buff champion a little bit because they really underperform for all the resources spent on upgrading them. Maybe 2 base melee armor instead of 1 and cost less to upgrade I think
@Devon Bueno yes, but if champion were to be buffed, dev would have a lot of work to do with other unique unit infantries to balance out too. We can hope that one day, they will do
@@TheBikeOnTheMoon What I would have loved is for Champs to have just a huge pool of health and high damage. No armor, no bonus damage, but they could eat an Onager to the face and still come out swinging.
If we're feeling real fancy, we could even split 2-hander/champion from the Militia line. Have it be Militia>Man>Longs, then have 2-hand be a new base unit available right in Castle, with Champion research in Imp. Split the two so they have distinct roles; Militia line becomes cheap, high armor, low damage frontline fodder, while 2-hand is the gold unit that rips trash, cav, and buildings.
@@BlueShellshock sounds like something in the beta when they did the exact same thing but for archer line, with archer being their own line and crossbow as the other. But after 20 years, I doubt they would do something like that unless you mod the game yourself.
You've put my thoughts into words, I've always liked the inmersion factor of good old infantry
26:35 Viper: "They wanna buff this unit? Are you mad?"
Longswordsman: "Ja!"
nice one
Total clickbait title.
None of the swords break during the game.
underrated comment
Lma
@@hexxar186 It always amuses me when someone post this message on the top-rated comment of a video.
Between Hoang-esque all-ins and Rehoboam-esque micro, you're slightly shifting your playstyle, and we all love it
I would love to see armys of swordman attack, like in Lord of the Ring, this epic starter scene. Always wondered why this game is all about xbows and horses. In reality a knight on a horse costs ridiculously much more than a stinknormaler soldiers with a sword.
Swords are pretty expensive when you need them in bulk. They're also relatively fragile, high-maintenance, and not easily replaceable/repairable while away from home. Normal infantry used spears, anti-infantry infantry also used spears, cavalry used spears, archers used spears, I bet even the dogs used spears.
Go play Total War if you want epic LotR battles
Both knights and archers cost mostly gold. The thing is in aoe2 food is the most precious resources in the 3 first ages where vil production takes priority. To make that worse, food from farms are gathered at a much slower rate than gold from mines. And that's before any mining upgrades.
@@sanjaymatsuda4504 Swords and axes and maces etc. also had a place, even in big battles, and depending on the period and region, but you are right that polearms like spears, lances and halberds are heavily underrepresented in games and movies. Spear and shield, and especially just a long spear or even pike is much more effective in close formations with large numbers, but media likes to focus on one on one duels, and it often shows the formations breaking up into a chaotic mess of duels. Such a break of formation lead to routing, a slaughter and fast defeat in reality. Pikes with a length of 3.5 meters to 7 meters were often used several rows deep, and the men in the back could still stab at the enemy past their own front row, like with the Kamajuks in AoE 2. The Macedonians used similar tactics. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_of_pike says that pikes still decided battles into the early 18th century, before firearms took over, but even those had bajonets, which basically gives you an awkward spear after you fired your shot.
It's not only that spears and pikes were a lot cheaper than most other melee weapons, they were also more effective in large, open battles. I guess that media likes to gloss over these facts, because they are less suitable for displaying your heroic protagonists or the movie star actors.
Swords aren't fragile though. They wont cut right and they will start to bite and bind more if they get a few notches, but you can still fight with them, and you can at least partially mend notches in the field I think, but I would agree that they are higher maintenance than typical polearms.
Adding to that swords were used in various situations in various times and places but given how spears are so much cheaper than swords most conscripts used spears
Spears were also a necessity against cavalry
A sword is not going to stop a horse charge
But cavalry sabers were really popular especially in later periods
> Teutons
> broken
You have my attention
26:37
Vipi: Are you mad??
Devs: Ja!
Man vipey i love your vids however the amount of ad's on your videos is just crazy... is there a possibilty to lessen them a bit?
Just use addblocker.
You keep saying things are broken or need to be nerfed but I think your godly micro/macro makes some things shine in ways that it doesn't for the majority of the players.
Not that I'm trying to discredit his opinion. I just think it's important to remember he's one of the best players in the world and Teuton's in his hands are not the same as normal people. This is like watching a world record Olympian play.. it on a level of it's own. With APM skills like that you can make amazing things happen.
I do think the farm discount is very good. Maybe too good in the hands of a macro god.
Villesse lost alot of siege and xbows to mangonels trades. The longswords were just the snowball already rolling downhill.
This win had nothing to do with the longswords, just superior eco. He could have built 5 stables, go full knights and win just as convincingly.
It's not the longsword, it's the teuton farm bonus!
agreed, lots of civs have great infantry in castle age, but Teutons easily have the best castle age eco.
Vikings still number 1
The thing with the militia line is that they get out hit-and-runned and quickwalling/building can make any raid useless early game. Archers and cavarlary have both the advantage of range and speed making them better alternatives. Personally I think the militia line need a small speed buff. This way, they can't get focused down by archer fire and getting more hits in while raiding enemy villagers
I think everyone is thinking infantry wrong. They should have increased versatility. Add the ablity to repair siege or build palisades. You know, stuff like that.
I think the spot they are at now is pretty good, while in castle age they are not very good, they should be a unit line that has enough flexibility to deal with both trash units and paladins, if they can achieve that in my books they are pretty good
I am terrible at this game but I played it for months when I was young and I would play against a ton of bots and just send MASSIVE armies of Teutonic Knights over and over again until I won. Never got old.
About low light, it's not really good for the eyes. A good way to have that low light settings wihtout putting the eyes at risk is those kind of high desktop lamp with umbrella. The lamp should go a bit higher than top of the screen and be bright so you can have it lighting the screen and the desk without having it direct into eyes while keeping that intimate feeling of low light settings and still being ergonomic. Sorry for the confuse explanation, it's not my mother tongue.
U are right
Indirect lighting is the best solution
@theviper this is important to remember too
Just watched the Mike Empire video, Teutonic Knights beat Boyars with 75 units left in a 200 vs 200 match.
Teuton's are so strong they give you at least 45% winrate.
twitch chat arguing about archer fire dodging and "slav vs slave" is pretty funny
This one is before update? Long sword has 0 default melee armor...
Yeah. I think so. It say 1/10, so i think it was before patch
@@nguyenhuyduc9151 oh thanks! Didn't notice that
That is the general misunderstanding-Viper is not off playing the meta-he IS the meta!
Master Hera: The meta will decide your fate
Viper: I AM the meta!!
Master Hera: Not yet!
Viper: It's treason then... BLAAAAARGH!!!
I wish it was written somewhere what civ both players are playing, easy to see which one he's playing but the opponents? Sometimes I join it at weird times and I miss the loading. I don't know civs by their shields or their upper right characters
if it helps, the character icon is the UU of said unit
this was teutons vs slavs
hopefully he adds written form
Yeah that's what I meant, I don't recognize the unique units of each civ.. I remembered it was something starting with a B and a y somewhere in there but like couldn't remember it
The Malay longsword rush and spam is actually nasty. They become trash units with the castle up grade
? Teutons do well against cavalry and infantry civs like Slavs but have very lackluster options to deal with Britons, Ethiopians, Mayans, Mongols.... any strong ranged civ that can protect their archers with a few pikes/halbs or something.
Is this an old game?? Why Teutons long sword's melee armor is 0+3?? I thought it would be 1+3
Date is on the top of your screen
Buff wasnt live on the first
I would like to see a mod where you have two different sets of a castle unique unit to choose from but it's the same "unit". For example, you can have war elephants that are twice the normal price but made instantly, or you could have war elephants that are half the price but take twice as long to make. It would encourage mass castles as well as being very strategic where you put them if you want to mass up a unique army, but you can also make a unit instantly to protect your castle in an emergency, and you have to choose to save your castle or your economy (by not investing so much resources in trying to save it). In a game in which victory can be a matter of seconds, it would make for interesting game play.
14:31 playing vs Hoang makes any effect in you?
If only the Teutonic town center still had +5 range.
They have slower cavalry, so they need +1 piercing armor too.
Next patch: Longswords nerfed again.
26:35 Viper: And they wanna buff that unit? they mad??
Teutonic longswordman: ja!
What a great game by both players.
Viper, please try to Hoang with Goth. I’m interested to know if it’s viable.
7/10 is a good score among so many true professionals, yet, viper was not happy.
The low light hides the balding. I would know, I gave up and went full Joe Rogan.
Teutons OP? What is this: Age of Kings?
and now its buffed
i really hate when i see chat commenting on Vilesse' behaviour. It's really disrespectful towards introverts. Maybe they don't look like they care about mockery, but you'd never know. It would be also cool for streamers to be more responsible and discourage this "fun"
But he had 40 Teutons farms when he spammed longswords. They're still bad.
As a tuton player during dark times I vote for the longsword buff.
Why does swordmen and Archer upgrades cost more than skirmisher it halberdier upgrade?
rudresh venkatablagagahq
No more Goth spam, its about the Teuton spam now
They also should buff lots of unique units. Mostly their price and production speed.
14:32 I am celts
Guess someone played to much against Hoang-st leaast the viewer was also confused!
What is it that makes Teuton longswords so strong?
They don't have a bonus for them do they? It's just the generic ones with access to all upgrades.
Extra 2 melee armor for barack and stable unit?
@@ZenaWazaki only plus one in castle age tho
Throw in 36W Farms as well.
The future is now old aoc man
@@TheBikeOnTheMoon i count all bonus man,come on
Viking LS's when?
I cringe everytime Viper says stuff like this. The devs will run out and do something rash.
Yeah the words “op” and “broken” are such buzzwords these days, its overused by so many people in so many games to a point that it lost its literal meaning
Why is he saying "And they WANT to buff the Longswordsmen?!"
Correct me if I'm wrong or is VViper just messing around because didn't they buff all Longswordsmens last patch and give them an extra melee armor in Castle?
So then Teutons got a Buff with the patch since one of there civ bonus' is infantry get +1 melee then +2 melee in castle then imp so more a less the Teutons Longswords have AN extra +2 in Castle now of melee armor if I'm not mistaken? correct?
Or was this video made a while back and just added now cause I'm like why does he keep saying that when THEY DID just buff them to make them what he's using?
It's before the patch went live, apparently
His LS still have 0 base armour
Did he even have chain mail?
7/10 is a fraction* not a number you dolts.
Also the 7/10 meme is only as big as it is because Viper awkwardly made a thing out of it while receiving his award.
At a time T90, abandoned us, the regular Viper uploads are soothing. I just watch you nowadays.
MAKE LONGSWORDS THE BEST UNIT IN THE GAME
Honestly they should nerf Viper, he is mad OP
Make infantry teuton again
I checked AOE nexus. Tuetons is one of his worst civs(taking in account all time) with less than 50℅ win rate. 111111
viper = Teutons = best = no.1 civ for viper in arabia :>
Teutonic Goth spam xd
Watching Viper play makes me dizzy holy shit.
Tootinz
It's seven out of eleven;)
The problem with the 7/10 is because it should have been 4/10? O.o
I dont get it :p
Sick
Hey viper u r best
7/10 video
Tequiero
Whats 7/10. I wanna be in on the memes
ahahah got it
7/10
7/11
I thought 7/10 was how many times lost to Yo
I have been saying teutons are grossly overused on the official forum always ever since they armor over buff combined with and even farm discount improved.
They have to revert the farm bonus, and maybe removed armor for cav, alternatively change the siege armor UT to instead give 1 armor to infstry and knights and give teutons instead +2/+4 free meele armor to siege. Basically swapping the two around but overall its a nerf.
Teutons op.
But people on the official forum still claim teutons suck. What a joke
Bad