Why We Left Calvinism Part 2: Answering Calvinist Proof Texts and Arguments
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Jordan Hatfield, Joshua Davidson, and Tyler Fowler answer Calvinist proof texts and objections.
Find more from Josh and Tyler @FaithUnaltered
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I love the length of these long conversations! Thank you all for taking the time to do this. I love the rabbit trails, and every detail that you shared. Also, that you didn’t feel rushed to keep it under an hour.
Yeah I have a hard time keeping it under an hour :) - I'm a fan of the longer conversations as well.
@@GreatLightStudios I'm a fan of this channel. Lol it was awesome, and I am glad it's making such big waves already.
Thank you to Jordan, Josh and Tyler! Being able to sit in on your discussion is very encouraging to my walk with Christ, and to my understanding of him.
It becomes the blackhole of determinism that sucks everything into it.
I would also like to point out that later on in chapter 3 Paul is calling believers "people of the flesh".
No he doesn’t. He says, “I address you AS people of the flesh”. That doesn’t mean he is saying they ARE people of the flesh. His point is that they are people of the Spirit, but they are still pulled by the world and are acting AS the world. That’s the entire context since chapter 1 where Paul speaks of the Corinthian’s division caused by their infatuation with wisdom of the world.
@@chrisharris9710 it's sad the mind gymnastics that Calvinists have to go through. I'm glad I'm not one anymore. But I do have a question:
Does Calvinism teach that God wants everyone to repent?
@@chrispedayo what? Just change the topic because you’re OP was shown as just a lie?
Very much enjoyed this discussion!
Josh and Taylor, I love you guys! We have a lot in common regarding our thinking and working for, and out, the truth.
The question “Why did you choose Jesus when your neighbor doesn’t?” Is a question that assumes determinism in it. If you ask a Calvinist “What made you choose that movie instead of this movie?” And you’re not talking philosophy, they’ll start rattling off reasons they had or maybe cite a whim. Either way, they don’t say “Well, it was degrees from eternity past that I would.” Because no one lives that way and no one asks this question that way.
The question is nonsense. Why did I believe when my brother did not? The same reason I believe the Earth is round and my cousin believes it’s flat. It’s a personal question with a multitude of answers. I understand there’s a semantic range for this question but it’s been artificially widened to encompass deterministic theistic propositions rather than just the way the question is asked in literally any other context.
Why did you choose according to your nature? I believe my nature entails the ability to choose so the premise is just a thing I disagree with altogether.
No one chooses Jesus. Jesus chooses them. Your premise was off from the beginning.
@@aletheia8054 incorrect
@@ryanwall5760 Yes, it’s correct
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
@@aletheia8054 you’re not one of the disciples.
@@ryanwall5760 Yes, I am. Apparently you’re not.
Great sound Biblical insights as well as defeaters against Calvinism. Well done!
Numerous blanket statements were made about Calvinist beliefs about determinism by the man in the brown hat, that I have literally never heard any Calvinist believe in or consider biblical. Perhaps there is some small subset out there among the small minority of non-biblical hyper-Calvinists who think that way, but to insinuate that this is a major belief among Calvinists is highly misleading. Sort of undercuts any of their better reasoning from Scripture. Progressive sanctification is indeed a thing within Calvinism. It would seem as though he is completely unaware of that basic reality, or so he is attempting to lead others to believe.
So glad you guys brought up how “synergy” is explicitly in scripture! I saw this in my studies too and am baffled that those who claim to be so based on the Word are unaware or ignore this fact!!
You make a mistake if you think that folks care about synergy showing up or not showing up in the scriptures objectively. Most just listen to what the preacher says and assume it is correct. They think they are based on the Word even though they rarely crack open the Bible because they assume that the preacher is correct.
It's just like how all the people who took the worst possible actions during Covid were the people who were following the science. None of them actually had a clue what the science was. They were really following CNN and just accepted that whatever CNN said that's what the science must be. The people who were lost in propaganda and misinformation were the ones who actually took the time to look up test results rather than just waiting on Faucii to tell them what to think.
Calvinism operates in the same way that secular progressivism does. John MacArthur and Ibram X Kendi use similar psychological techniques to manipulate similarly ignorant people in predictable ways that claim to be for the benefit of the manipulated but always seem to work towards increasing the fame and wealth of the person doing the talking.
The 2342324th Calvinist to tell you that your theology is man-centered is running the same mental programming as the 2342324th progressive telling you that Jan 6 was a threat to democracy. The way to get over the amazement that anybody can actually think those things is to realize that the people who say those things don't properly think at all. They merely download the narrative their peer group wants to hear from them and repeat it ad nauseum.
I haven't listened in yet. But that picture! Italian lesson for the day: The bearded fellow with the wide eyed glare - he has occhi inquientanti.
Thanks, I think? Lol
Jordan, it's a blessing that the Bible is the true and inspiring word of God and tells the truth.
Luke 24:45
Then [m]he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,
Cross-references
[m]: Lk 24:32; Job 33:16; Ps 119:18; Acts 16:14; 1 Jn 5:20
(ESV)
My two FAVORITE parts of this interview was:
1. Timemark 49:40-52:50 is PURE GOLD when Josh speaks of the domino analogy. So good! I've replayed it so many times!
2. And from timestamp 25:22 and after, I loved the smile on all of yalls face when reading 1 Corinthians 2 AND 3. When you read in context... Calvinism fails. Yes, Paul speaks to immature CHRISTIANS, i.e. BELIEVERS! We cannot isolate Scripture (and neglect 1 Corinthians chapter 3 that follows RIGHT AFTER) and then eisegete our own presuppositions into it. We risk coming to wrong conclusions.
Thanks for that. Blessings!
LOL. You also have presuppositions.
I would like to know what Calvinists mean by decree. Do they all mean the same thing, or are there different kinds of decrees?
What matters is what the ancient Hebrew term for decree means. God is spirit. He doesn’t create or determine with physical hands. He creates by speaking into existence. It’s ancient Jewish idiom.
Love your conversation, I would like to have an understanding of Galatians 1:15 please ?
Galatians 1:15
But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, (ESV)
Paul personally was selected by God for the service he was called to as an apostle. Paul is in some ways calling back to the prophet Jeremiah who also was personally selected for a purpose of service to God's plan and people. God chooses people for all manner of things, what the scripture never indicates is that God chooses people to be causally converted by irresistible grace.
So in Galatians 1:15 we see that God chose just as in Ezekiel 24:11-23
That explains the free gift from God (Grace) Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (ESV)
I think it is interesting that the ESV, Calvinists’ favorite translation, uses the phrase “before I was born”, and puts the literal meaning of “in my mother’s womb” in a footnote. Almost like they had some Calvinist bias there or something…
@@christopherwest5047I believe in predestination of Acts, romans and Ephesians that the Bible teaches.
I do ""not "" believe that the 1 hour of baptism is automatic salvation.
The act of baptism is a sign of repentance but how do you understand Faith ?, not by a 1 hour event that happened 10 years back.
Awesome show and I'd love to see more of these please!
It seems to me that the question asked by Calvinists of, "why did you believe in Christ and your neighbor didn't? Are you better than they are? Etc., etc." Just turn that question around to the Calvinist and ask, "why did you believe in Christ and your neighbor didn't? Didn't you have to respond positively to the Gospel in order to be saved? Are you better than they are?" Calvinists believe that those who choose to believe in Jesus are different than they are, but even for the Calvinist, he likewise must make the decision to receive Christ. They are the ones who actually believe that they are better....more special, etc because God personally elected them to be saved before they were even born. I guess they really are the "choice meat."
Classic arguments against this position always have to create the strawman. You do realize it was Mr." I have humbled myself " Flowers who created the choice meats analogy to argue for his position. A calvinist will always give God the glory since we realize we are "rotten meats"
Very good of you to comment and have no idea what you are talking about.
@@davevandervelde4799 I know where the "choice meat" came from. Giving the glory to God doesn't change the answer to the question for the Calvinist, why were you saved and your neighbor wasn't?
@@sharonlouise9759 The only answer to that question is all those who put their faith in Christ will be saved and they were given by the Father to the Son through the work of the Holy Spirit.
When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
@@davevandervelde4799 Are you a Calvinist? According to the verses you quoted it was because they were given to the Son by the Father. But yet, the question remains, "Why were you given to the Father and your neighbor wasn't?"
Yes I am and the answer to that question and many many other questions are not available to you or me. They are questions we are not given an answer to. Grace is given as a gift and I am only instructed to obey .
What if choosing good is ONLY possible AFTER knowing the pain of bad. How "good" is the person that pulls their hand out of the fire and lets the doctor heal it properly?
If anything, especially if we have clearly been told and shown pain from fire, how stupid are we? How great is the healer? How much more is His goodness magnified as He heals?
Pain is known in contrast to comfort. Choosing is not strictly a matter of knowledge, as much as it is a capacity of the mind, through the will, to mediate between competing and compatible desires/motives/thoughts etc.
Josh, at the 50 minute mark- Wow -clueless comment. Made me think if how timeless a quote from Spurgeon remains valid.
"Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not improve it, but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not thy grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal, still I turned the point; I made use of what was given me, and others did not-that is the difference between me and them."
My name is Josh. But "Ginger Beard" has a ring to it. Nice.
@@joshuadavidson7985 Sorry Josh I just should have looked it up.
@@davevandervelde4799 it's alright. I quite like Ginger Beard. Lol it's suits me.
@@joshuadavidson7985 I forget my mothers name all the time too. Wait its on my arm...Mother
The being wet analogy was very helpful. I applied it to Romans 8:
Romans 8:5-7 (Being wet analogy)
For those who go into the pool have their wetness shaped by the things of the pool, but those who are not in the pool have their dryness shaped by not being in the pool. For the result of being in the pool is wetness, but the result of not being in the pool is dryness, because wetness is hostile to Dryness, for it does not submit to the law of Dryness, nor is it able to do so.
Romans 8:5-7 (NET)
For those who live according to the flesh have their outlook shaped by the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit have their outlook shaped by the things of the Spirit. For the outlook of the flesh is death, but the outlook of the Spirit is life and peace, because the outlook of the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to the law of God, nor is it able to do so.
Ignorant Free will Analogies / Romans 8
ruclips.net/video/7nmuIZgedcw/видео.html
Dan Wallace should be ashamed of himself
When you covered Romans 8:5-8 you should have included verse 9 "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." The reason is because Romans 8 is talking about either you are "in the flesh" as an unsaved person versus "in the Spirit" as a saved person. Romans 8:9-14 emphasize this fact. The focus of the chapter is not talking about a momentary lapse a Christian may have in the flesh, but rather defining the difference between a lost person "in the flesh" and a saved person "in the Spirit". As verse 9 explains "if the Spirit of God dwells in you, that is the new Life found "in the Son", you are "in the Spirit" born again. But those who don't have the Son do not have God's "Life" by the Holy Spirit." These people in Rom 8:8 "in the flesh" can not please God. That is not talking about a born again person that may sin from time to time. Obviously no sin is ever pleasing to God but this is talking about an unsaved person "in the flesh" can not please God. But a saved person, Romans 8:4 that has the righteous requirement of the law fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit, being "in Christ" we do please God. So Romans 8 is speaking of a person "in the flesh" is without God versus a person "in the Spirit" who is saved "in Christ".
Galatians 5:16-26 "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." If your life is dominated "in the flesh" Gal 5:19-21 then according to scripture will not inherit the kingdom of God. And those who will inherit the kingdom of God bear fruit of "new Life by the Holy Spirit" Gal 5:22-25. A good example, demonstrating sin or our flesh still exist as a born again Christian, even until Romans 8:23 we receive the adoption of our glorified body is: Gal 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. But only in Christ do we have fruit of holy living and without Christ we are dead branches without fruit to be thrown in the fire, John 15. Fruit of the Holy Spirit and love of God is only possible by the Holy Spirit indwelling us. No one is perfect from sin 1 John 1:8-10 but we have an advocate with the Father who intercedes for us constantly "in Christ". As born again Christians, we are no longer under the law because the righteous requirement of the law has been fulfilled in us by Christ through the Holy Spirit in us. Examples: Gal 4:5, 5:18, Romans 7:4-6, Col 2:13-15, Hebrews 8. In Christ, we are no longer under the Levitical law but our High Priest Jesus Christ is after the order of Melchizedek. Romans 8:1-2 therefore now there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 6:4-23 But since we have died to sin, we are no longer slaves to sin under the law as a tutor, but now slaves to God lived out by the love of God in our new heart through His way of new LIfe.
The statement was made that no one had believed in the concept of total depravity until John Calvin during the reformation. Has this speaker not heard of Augustine and his book The Bondage of the will to sin? That was an extremely foundational and influential work of his from well before the other writer that was cited from around 700 to 800ad from The Eastern Orthodox Church
My CHOICE not to drink alcohol having found out my liver is enlarged is MY choice. I know it's mine because I feel it. If it was predetermined I wouldn't feel anything to learn that I can be given power not to drink, only through God, but I only know that in faith. I want to drink all day if I could, but God is changing me from the inside out, showing my faith & trust in Him brings healing, health & strength for the next time. I have to quit some day 🙏 Just please don't call me a sinner while in my struggle.
When God formed the nation of Israel, did Abram a pagan idolater think of this idea or was it God? How did Abram come into the equation if God had not called him?
Go on. What are you asking? I don't understand quite.
@@joshuadavidson7985 what is the topic of discussion, is it not refuting Calvinism? the question is clear: Abram did not conceive the idea of following Yahweh but that God who wanted to form a nation to bring forth Messiah God took the initiative to call him - it's everywhere in the Bible of God making the first move to come to man - Adam and his wife hid from God and God came looking for them - God set apart Jeremiah in his mother's womb - Saul then called Paul was a chosen vessel of God - it is always God coming to lost man and not the other way round - man is a God-hater by nature - 'the carnal mind is enmity with God; it cannot and will not submit to God' - none seeks after God, no not one! even after regeneration the 'flesh strives against the Spirit' - such is the enmity of the flesh - we made willing only by the power of the Spirit -
Most of the issues raised in this video around the issues of God determining history as the primary cause and moral responsibility ignores the distinction of primary and secondary causality as seen in chapter 3 of the Westminster Confession and many historic theologians in the Church. I highly recommend this topic to anyone studying these issues!
We didn't ignore it. We simply didn't concede that such a distinction functionally succeeds in separating God from evil, because we are not Calvinists.
@@joshuadavidson7985Secondary causality is not unique to Calvinists, it was widely affirmed by Augustine and the medieval schoolmen such as Aquinas and Dun Scotus. Without affirming God as the first mover and primary cause of all creation, you are forced to deny classical Christian theism. From the video, it appears human choice would have to be at the same level of divine choice to render humans responsible. Also check out Pelagius’ commentary on Romans, it’s quite clear what he believed.
@@ethantucker3191 I didn't mention Pelagius so I'll leave that be. As for God being the First Cause of creation, yes. But that is not the same problem being addressed, so I do not concede that. The problem of calvinism is not that creation is contingent. It is that God is the source of evil.
@@joshuadavidson7985If creation is contingent then man’s choices are also contingent in an ultimate sense upon divine concersus, and in a secondary sense due to the freedom of contradiction and contrariety which is affirmed in the Reformed tradition.
@@ethantucker3191 and yet that isn't the problematic assertion of the WCF. The issue is with determinism, not with contingency. Different problems.
@Brenton, sorry our convo was cutoff in the live chat. You were asking why all people don't come to repentance, I quoted John 3:20 in response, and asked "why they refused"? It should be obvious that the word "refuse" implies free will to do so. Each individual has their own reasons and circumstances. But to ask why do they refuse implies I have some sort of intimate knowledge of the individual....in other words, your attempt to search out total depravity in this discussion shows you are searching for something to validate your own systematic, not deal with the text directly. Let's just deal with the text, we can't assume "secret wills" which is nothing short of gnosticism. Secret wills implies God lies or at the very least says what He doesn't mean. God says what He means and means what He says, its His character.
It isn't obvious to me at all that John 3:20 implies something called a "free will". A will? Sure. They don't come to Christ because they hate the light and don't want it. Their wills are them choosing what they want. But you would have to explain to me how a "free will" works if it is different from "doing what they want to do". For example, take a look at my post above for an explanation about how a "will" works. It's pretty simple. As I explain above, the difference between those who WANT to come and those who DON'T WANT to come (i.e. who hate the light) is God's Spirit at work in them. It is easily explainable. But what is the difference between the two groups on your view.
But as for the "secret will", again, don't you agree that there are some things that God wants that he doesn't tell us? Some things that He is accomplishing that he keeps secret?
@@brentonstanfield5198 When you say "As I explain above, the difference between those who WANT to come and those who DON'T WANT to come (i.e. who hate the light) is God's Spirit at work in them. It is easily explainable." Hold on a second here, you've made a major assumption here which I would like you to prove with scripture if you wouldn't mind. Specifically when you say " is God's Spirit are work in them" with the assumption this is present before the choice is made and the will is bent. This is a critical assumption, where in the New Testament do you find a clear scripture to support this, that someone is regenerated by the Holy Spirit before they can believe? The order I see, is always the opposite - believe then receive, here are just a couple key ones, but I can't see any whatsoever that say receive then believe.
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Eph 2:22 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
If you are wrong on your critical assumption, and it isn't in the Bible, then you interpretation doesn't really hold water does it? Because it isn't God's Spirit that is bending their will, and therefore must their own free will.
@@matts.6558. The Holy Spirit produces belief. Gal 5:22
@@aletheia8054 Ok, that is a major stretch there. "Faithfulness" assumes a steadfastness in what one has already accepted and believed does it not? Remaining faithful in times of trials, temptations and tribulations. Gal 5:22 is "fruits" of the Spirit, these are things that one would expect to see if the Spirit is already present, which is the context of the passage, which is contrasting works of the flesh and fruits of the spirit. I don't see "initial belief and a first step into faith" listed in Gal 5:22 and I wouldn't expect it either given the context.
This is the same thing were you see Paul discussing the gifts of the Spirit for the Body of Christ, and one of those gifts is faith. But He is clearly explaining the role of the Spirit in distributing specific types of gifts to believers, not to unbelievers. Most Calvinists won't even go there and try and use Corinthians as an example because of the obvious context of this being instructions to those that already believe and the importance and order of these gifts within the Body of existing believers.
Again, we're looking for a conversion passage, that someone was an unbeliever and filled with the Holy Spirit before they can believe. Just needs to be in context. If God was indeed doing this, and desired glory for this (i.e. no one can boast in their own ability to believe), why on earth wouldn't it be in the Bible then?
@@matts.6558 - Note, that neither Acts 2:38 or Ephesians 2:22 are about "regeneration", per se. Neither use that word. Acts 2:38 refers to the "gift of the Holy Spirit" and Ephesians 2:22 refers to the "sealing" of the Holy Spirit. Those are all PART of the PROCESS of regeneration, which I take to mean the entire PROCESS beginning with being "born again" and ending with "resurrection" on the last day. I would say that a person must be BORN AGAIN before they can believe. I like to explain it this way:
(1) Jesus was conceived in the womb of the Virgin by the POWER of the Holy Spirit (see Luke 1:35-38). In the womb, and at His birth, he always had the Spirit with Him. As a result, He was different from men in that He did not carry the stain of original sin. He was in that sense a new man, born in the likeness of sinful flesh, but Spiritual. Nevertheless, we get to His baptism and what happens? At Jesus' baptism, He is SEALED by God. How? God declares Him to be His Son and the Spirit descends upon Him (see Matthew 3:13-17). The Spirit then leads Jesus out to be tempted... and during that tempting, Jesus PROVES He is The Son by His works. He overcomes the temptation of Satan and then goes about His ministry with POWER given to Him by the Spirit to preach the Word, heal the sick, calm the storm, raise the dead, and ultimately go to the Cross. Christ's ministry, His obedience, His great works and miracles, PROVED He was God's son. A SEAL proves the AUTHENTICITY of something. Kings SEALED their official documents to PROVE their legitimacy. Even today, official documents are SEALED to prove authenticity.
(2) This process is repeated in each believer. As Paul describes in Ephesians 2:1-3, all men are dead in their sins and transgressions and are following Satan. But God, working in the Spirit, makes men alive by causing them to be born again. When we are "born again", we have been given Spiritual life. We are like Jesus in the sense that we become Spiritual beings at heart. Jesus says in John 3:3: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Men who are not born again cannot see Spiritual things. This is Paul's point in 1 Corinthians 2:14, where the natural man is incapable of understanding the things of God... which must be discerned by the Spirit. What is the PROOF that a person has been born again? What is the PROOF that they see Spiritual things? It is faith. Faith is the FIRST FRUIT of Spiritual life. As aletheia pointed about above, it is the FRUIT of the Spirit (see Galatians 5:22). It is to Spiritual life what breath is to physical life. Just as a baby is shown to be alive when it begins to take breaths and cries out moments after delivery, so also FAITH is the very breath of the born again Christian. It is on the basis of faith, the "breath of life" for the born again Christian, that God declares us His Son. God then SEALS that person as a son in the same way He does to Christ, by giving to His children His Spirit to indwell them and produce good works PROVING that they are truly His. It is being "born again" that BEGINS the process of regeneration, a regeneration that is COMPLETED when we are resurrected and given our Spiritual bodies... incorruptible bodies which will reflect the Hearts and Spirits we have been given and by which we will obey God completely.
So take what I just wrote above and apply it to Acts 2:38 and Ephesians 2:22. If a person repents and is baptized, demonstrating their faith by their belief in Christ, they receive the Spirit who SEALS THEM and produces good fruit in them PROVING that they are truly God's children.
Gotta hand it to those apostles...always appealing to mystery. What fools.
Romans 11:25 - Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Romans 16:25 - Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages
1 Corinthians 4:1 - This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
1 Corinthians 13:2 - And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1 Corinthians 14:2 - For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:51 - Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Ephesians 1:9 - making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
Ephesians 3:3 - how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly.
Ephesians 3:4 - When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ,
Ephesians 3:6 - This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Ephesians 3:9 - and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,
Ephesians 5:32 - This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
Ephesians 6:19 - and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel,
Colossians 1:26 - the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now revealed to his saints.
Colossians 1:27 - To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Colossians 2:2 - that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God’s mystery, which is Christ,
Colossians 4:3 - At the same time, pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word, to declare the mystery of Christ, on account of which I am in prison-
2 Thessalonians 2:7 - For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
1 Timothy 3:9 - They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience.
1 Timothy 3:16 - Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
Rightly Dividing Your Bible
While the entire Bible was inspired by God for our benefit, it is not all written to the same people. God spoke different things to different people at different times. Every time it was according to his two-fold purpose.
The key to understanding the Bible hinges on our ability to discern what is written to us and what is not. This is what is meant by right division of the Bible.
Dispensation of Prophecy and Mystery
The majority of scripture contains doctrine and instruction written primarily about God’s plan for dominion over the earth through his nation Israel. We call this the prophetic dispensation of God. It is the part of God’s eternal purpose which was spoken about since the world began through his prophets.
Later, God raised up Paul to dispense his hidden wisdom. By his grace, Jesus declared Paul the apostle of the Gentiles and gave to him the revelation of the mystery which speaks about a new creature in Christ. In Paul’s writing alone we find the ‘doctrine, position, walk, and destiny of the church’. We call this the mystery dispensation of God since it was kept secret since the foundation of the world.
The Key to Understanding God’s Will
Rightly dividing the prophecy dispensations from the mystery is the key to understanding your Bible and God’s will to you. Our Lord Jesus declared through Paul the gospel of grace that is essential for eternal life today.
This primary distinction in bible study eliminates much of the doctrinal confusion that exists today. At the same time it opens up the scripture to be understood and utilized like many have never known before.
@@ishiftfocus1769 you are partly right. The Bible is a Historic Redemptive Narrative with it's author -God. Therefore it needs to be interpreted through covenant theology.
The last closing statements are so bad I don't even know where to begin.
Tyler brought up John 17 . The high priestly prayer , I urge everyone to go read it. Take off any lenses you have on and just listen to Jesus. It is amazing.
"God does not have to save us even if we come to Him?"
Yes He does. Because He promised He would and God can not lie. The biggest problem is that all of God's attributes you are not applying to salvation. God gives HIs spirit as the guarantee of HIs promise's. There is no other name in heaven He can swear so He gives us a rock solid and unbreakable guarantee that all who come will be saved and who comes? All those given to me by the Father.
John 6
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw's him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me- 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
John 10
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,1 is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
Jordan, why did God make 8 day old babies holy ? You think the babies had something to do with them being Holy ?
1 Corinthians 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. (ESV)
CAN HEATHEN BECOME CHRISTIANS??
(Romans 11:1-2) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid(no) For I also am AN ISRAELITE, of the "seed" of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin God hath NOT cast away his people which he "FOREKNEW"
(Romans 8:29) For whom he did "FOREKNOW" he also did "PREDESTINATE" to be CONFORMED to the IMAGE of his SON, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren
(Ephesians 1:4-5) According as he hath CHOSEN "US" in him BEFORE the foundation of the world, that WE should be HOLY and without blame before him in love having "PREDESTINATED" (us) unto the "ADOPTION" of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will
👆 Only ethnic Israel was "predestined" "forknew" to be "conformed" to the image of Christ aka Christian as it's written - heathen can not be Christians it's impossible - yeah I know blocked
32:28 You referenced 1. John 2:19:
_"They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us."_
But who are "they"? Superficial or fake Christians who don't have the Spirit? No, but "antichrists", see one verse earlier. These antichrists are nothing other than non-Christians or unbelievers. They rejected basic truths about Jesus (see 1 John 2:22; 4:3; cf. 2 John 7).
Calvinists misuse this verse to prove that "true" Christians will persevere in the faith no matter what.
Jesus said he doesn’t lose any. God works in his children till their last day.
@@aletheia8054 If you mean believers are eternally secure - I'd agree with you.
@@minorsingingairhead Gods children are eternally secure with God. He doesn’t lose any of his children.
Tyler around the 1:04:00 mark, “I’m not Pelagian”…….. also Tyler- goes on to define semipelagianism when describing his own view……
That's because you missed the part where he said even Pelagious himself denied all the accusations brought against him.
So when Tyler says that he's not Pelagian; he's talking about Calvinism's misrepresentations of Pelagious' or any non-Calvinist's beliefs.
@@gk.4102 that makes no sense whatsoever. It doesn’t matter if Pelagius held to or taught what he was accused of. There is still a historically defined position that IS Pelagianism and semipelagianism.
@@chrisharris9710 Everybody accused of believing the historical 14-points misrepresentation of Pelagious by Augustine denies believing those 14 points and even Pelagious himself denies it, and the fact that Calvinists never cared to research or rectify this show their true evil intentions.
I bet most Calvinists today don't even know what those 14 points are about; they're simply taught on purpose that anything that involves libertarian freewill, or anything that is not Exhaustive Divine Determinism (EDD) or Calvinistic is pelagian or semi-pelagian and as always they swallow it without looking. And the only reason they're taught this vague definition is so they can throw it at anyone who disagrees with them.
@@gk.4102 parroting dumb arguments from Warren Mcgrew and Tim Stratton won’t get you anywhere with me. Again, there is a historical definition of Pelagianism and semipelagianism. People don’t like that, of course, but it’s true. You see, they would rather hide behind some obscure research and attempt to muddy the waters. It’s actually a really simple definition.
What I don’t get is them not just owning the position and defending it. That I would respect.
@@chrisharris9710 Of course my arguments won't get you anywhere; you're a Calvinist after all, thus incapable of doing your own investigations and have to rely on what Calvinism feeds you. You've been trained to automatically look away or call "dumb" anything that don't match your dogma.
I'll say it again: Pelagianism/Semi-pelagiamism has been purposefully redefined so as to include ALL non-Calvinists. The proof is that you can't name a single Christian non-Calvinist system that is not accused of Pelagianism or semi-pelagiamism. It's no longer about the historical 14-points misrepresentation of Pelagious by Augustine; it's now about using it as a boogeyman against ALL non-Calvinists.
In 1st Corinthians 1-3, Paul addresses divisions in the church. In chapter 2, Paul contrasts the believer with the natural man. The things of the Spirit of God are foolishness to the natural man. But the Holy Spirit teaches those who are spiritual. In context, the natural man doesn't have the Holy Spirit; the believer in Christ does have the Holy Spirit.
In chapter 3, Paul says he has to treat the Corinthians _as_ carnal, because they are so immature. He's not saying they don't have the Holy Spirit, but he has to treat them _as_ carnal people, who don't have the spirit. It's a carnal thing to be caught up in the divisions of "I'm of Paul" or "I'm of Apollos." That's the context. Paul is not saying they are unbelievers without the Spirit, but that he must speak to them _as_ carnal.
In Romans 8, Paul is contrasting those who are saved from those who are not. The believer is _not_ the one living according to the flesh. Keep going to verse 9, and this distinction is seen more fully.
*Romans 8:9* But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Now we see more clearly in Romans 8 that the carnal mind is not the mind of the believer. Rather, the carnal mind is the mind of a person who does not have the Spirit. Such a person does not belong to Christ, and cannot please God.
This is really not complicated. The text really does speak clearly on these doctrines. Why do people feel the need to create analogy after analogy just to show how the text does not say what it says. These 2 guys are not very convincing unless you already hold to a non calvinist position and need to prop it up with analogy's .
@@davevandervelde4799 Hey, Dave! Good to run into you here.
Yes, I pointed out in Part 1 of this interview that they spent a long time on philosophy, but very little on Scripture. In a different interaction with Jordan, he said I didn't expound on the biblical text enough. I was taken aback by that. Why do I need to use lots of my own words to explain clearly-worded texts? If it's clearly worded, it explains itself.
The passages in 1st Corinthians 1-3 and Romans 8 are very plainly stated. The sheer length of parts 1 & 2 of this interview make it clear that they're not actually focusing on the text. When they did, they missed the clear wording. And verse 9 in Romans 8 removes any doubt of what Paul is expressing in that passage.
Nowadays everyone with a RUclips page is a prophet and biblical scholar - both ridiculous and blasphemous
WHO'S ORDAINED TO TEACH N PREACH??
(Psalm 147:19-20) He sheweth his WORD(bible) unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto ISRAEL he hath NOT dealt so with ANY NATION: and as for his judgments, THEY have NOT known them. Praise ye the LORD.
(Amos 2:11) And I raised up of YOUR SONS for "PROPHETS" and of YOUR young men for NAZARITES. Is it not even thus, O ye CHILDREN OF ISRAEL? saith the LORD
(Amos 3:7) Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his SECRET unto his SERVANTS the "PROPHETS"
(Deuteronomy 29 :29) The SECRET things belong unto the LORD "our" God: but those things which "are revealed" belong unto "US" and to our CHILDREN "FOREVER"
(Romans 3:1-2) What advantage then hath the JEW? or what profit is there of circumcision?
much every way: chiefly, because that UNTO THEM were committed the ORACLES(word) of God
👆Yea I know blocked
The part where an attempt at exegesis of 1 Corinthians and Romans 8 was bad. Josh talked about context and then goes on to ramble about his own philosophical position…….. this comes from one who is a pastor and has walked through both texts line by line always grounding what is said from the immediate context in order to apply what Paul says to us.
Don’t listen to these guy’s ramblings. You don’t like Calvinism? Ok, go listen to a good classical Arminian, visit some local churches and talk to those pastors. This stuff here is just horrific.
That was my immediate reaction too. i was truly hard to listen to. I am no scholar but it seems like these guys want to throw in big words and phrases. I literally just would not know where to start digesting this. Maybe Jordans worst video as far as content.
Yes, the exegetical attempt was not good at all. In the Romans passage, they should have read verse 9, as well, since they thought being in the flesh could apply to believers. In the 1st Corinthians passage, they completely missed that the natural man is not a believer, and that Paul says he has to treat the immature Corinthian _as_ carnal; he didn't say the Corinthians aren't believers, but that he has to talk to them as if they were carnal, or as babes in Christ. Josh, Tyler, and Jordan are very confused.
Calvinists believe God created people who were born dead in sin, for no fault of their own, and cannot believe and God does nothing for them and they die and go to hell!
Where in the essence and uncreated energies is this evil found in God?
It isn't!
That is enough to tell anyone that Calvinism has the wrong God and so the system fails.
Ask the Calvinist if he believes this!
They also have God the Father pouring out wrath and cursing God the Son on the cross thereby splitting the eternal unchanging Trinity apart.
See 1 Corinthians 12:3
That alone is another reason Calvinism is false.
And Jesus died on the cross to raise again thereby defeating death, sin, and the devil for everybody. Otherwise the unbelieving would not be raised from the dead to be judged.
And Paul says,
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead!"
Acts 17:29-31
So everybody has the ability to repent because God in His providence gives everybody the Grace in some manner to do so and are without excuse. See Romans 1:18-23
So Calvinism is wrong and Calvinists need to reevaluate their proof texts.
The better than complaint that you are bringing up is ridiculous it is incoherent, and has no correlation to anything anyone argues. If someone argues that they don’t understand scripture.
Much better title! rather than "Why I am right and Calvinists are wrong", which we can't ultimately know because of our fallen state.
I was under the impression the scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit can lead us into all truth (within the limits of the Word of God)? Are you saying He can't?
@matts.6558 Then why do we not all agree?! Either scripture is lying or it doesn't mean what you think it means?
How do you know that your statement is correct then? You contradict yourself.
@chrisanthony7602 I don't. I am a presuppositionalist, and I recognize my intellect is fallen
@@rogervincent2092 Or, maybe your either or dilemma isn't in line with scripture? People don't all agree because they have free will, and people are messy. Even Paul and Peter didn't agree on things, and Paul had to take this disagreement (on a major issue mind you) to Peter?
Not all spend the same time reading on their own, not all have the same backgrounds and skill sets, the Body of Christ is diverse. Not all want to walk as closely with God as others, not all want to fully surrender, not all will receive rewards, not all will bear the same fruit, not all will be feasting entirely on meat, some will still be on milk.
But I hear what you are saying as I have asked "why do we not all agree in unison myself"?
But when I read scripture and hear about deception, about pride of knowledge, about itching ears (how can you have an itching ear for deception if you don't have a personally designed heart shaped internally towards its own desires to itch for...i.e. money, fame, power, lust, etc. etc. but not all hearts are the same), I realize each person has a personally responsibility to read the scriptures, to pray and foster their relationship with God, and ultimately grow closer to Him and trust Him. You can go to MacArthur or Piper or Voddie if you want, and He does bless the Body with teachers, but all men are fallible. What He wants is you to go to Him and discern everything you hear.
Heb 5:11-14 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.
BY CONSTANT PRACTICE
It isn’t calvinists that say that it is the scripture.. the wicked are dead and do nothing of their own power to become alive!
What do you make of the parable of the prodical son?
The unregenerate is not aware of how wicked he is. They make God in their own image.
exactly
If we are wicked it is because we chose to be. Not because of Adam's sin. Calvinism is gnosticism.
@@chrispedayo The Bible literally says we are fallen because of Adam
@@chrispedayo You're either a sheep or a goat
@@TheFinalJigsaw I know. Except Calvinists eisegete their theology into these terms even if the bible nowhere says that sheep means "elected before the foundation of the world to be saved". I'm a former Calvinist, and when I realized how much eisegesis Calvinism uses I regret ever believing this theology for years.
Why is it that “former Calvinists” never present the actual Calvinistic position? Calvinism does not affirm that God is a cause among causes. It holds that God is the cause of creaturely causation existing. God doesn’t cause for you rather he establishes the existence of the creaturely causal order.
By creaturely causal order you mean what exactly?
@@joshuadavidson7985 the causal order found in creation.
@@chrismabe2661 meaning what? Are you talking about plain cause and effect, like we use for scientific inquiry? Or are you talking about determinism? Or some other third thing?
@@joshuadavidson7985 I’m talking about cause and effect in the created order. God is the primary cause of everything existing and he is doing that right now. Everything else is a secondary cause. For example if you go hug a loved one there is a real sense that we can say God is the primary cause of the hug while you are the secondary cause because God is hold you, your loved one, and everything else in existence so you can hug your loved one. So we would say that on the existential level God is the primary cause and you are the secondary cause. But, on the essential level or the level that makes something what it is then you are the essential cause of all your choices and actions. In other words you decide what you do. God doesn’t make the decision for you.
That is the classical reformed view.
@@chrismabe2661 by essential cause of my choices you mean what? Are those choices nested in the causal chain and brought about by necessity, or are the choices new events that we add into the causal chain?
The bearded man in the hat misrepresents many things, including Calvinist beliefs. The other two seemed to present their opinions and descriptions well.
How about you point out what he misrepresented?
Tyler takes the Lords name in vain? The arrogance is just so evident here I feel sorry for these men. Oh Yes, it was me and God working together to save me. God, you really do not deserve all the credit because without my effort I would not have been able to be saved. It is synergism since I was able to make the right decision and my poor neighbors, well they didn't.
Pelagius wrote the letters to Pope Zosimus in order to undo what he had previously taught so that his beliefs would not contradict the teachings the church upheld at their synods. He needed to make the claim that he was still orthodox. In other words he convinced then.
What you guys just laid out is actually semi Pelagianism. Funny how Flowers does the same thing and then claims he isn't one.
You should have these guys on more often, this is too easy. Keep moving away from the God who revealed Himself in scripture and yes you will certainly be untethered from him...for eternity.
There were a thousand things to address in this video (e.g. Tyler denying the imputation of righteousness). But I will address only this one, you guys have a serious misunderstanding of how the human heart, will, and mind work according to Scripture. According to Scripture man has a (1) Heart, i.e. the inner man... who we REALLY are, and a (2) Body/Flesh, i.e. the outer appearance of men though which we come to know what is IN THE HEART. The MIND is that part that connects the Heart to the OUTSIDE world, i.e. the flesh and the world around us. The WILL is the MIND CHOOSING what the Heart DESIRES. We can UNDERSTAND how the will works:
(1) When we are presented with options, e.g. should I donate to the local food bank, or take that money to local steakhouse and engorge myself on food, the sensory organ of my body perceive the options (e.g. box for donation, steakhouse down the street),
(2) This sensory data ENTERS my mind,
(3) My mind then searches my HEART... i.e. it PERCEIVES what it is that I really desire (e.g. I want to appear to be a generous man to those around me, I want to serve that hunger within me and taste a good steak, I want to serve God and am willing to sacrifice and feel hungry to do it),
(4) My mind then CHOOSES based on what it (a) perceives the options to be and (b) which of those options will best accomplish what my heart desires.
It's pretty simple. Choices are thus determined in us by (a) the desires of our heart and (b) the proper functioning of our minds and sensory faculties. When my mind and my sensory faculties are properly functioning, the choices we make PROVE what is in our heart. They are a WINDOW into what we really are in the INNER MAN. The reveal our character. Of course, although our minds are CONNECTED to the inner man and can be affected by it, they are largely part of the OUTER MAN, i.e. the flesh/body. As a result, because we inhabit "bodies of death" in this world they are often subject to defects. For example, when I am really tired, or when I am experience an overwhelming physical urge... my mind might not properly perceive what my heart wants. The urge given to me by the flesh might overwhelm me and I might do something that I will look back on 5 minutes later, 1 hour later, or 10 years later and think... I really didn't want to do that. Or, we might falsely perceive the options. So, our minds can fail us.
But it is this dynamic that allows Jesus to teach as follows:
*Luke 6:43-45: [N]o good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit, for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thornbushes, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.*
Here Jesus teaches how our CHOICES are connected to what is in our heart. Our choices, i.e. the fruit we produce, PROVE what kind of tree we are. Are we a child of God, filled with His Spirit in our inner man whose heart is filled with goodness, if so then we will produce GOOD FRUIT, i.e. make GOOD CHOICES. If we have no good treasure in our heart, no Spirit, we will do evil. Of course, that doesn't mean we won't ever fail, after all, as Paul observed in Romans 7, we still have this "body of death"... and our minds might deceive us and lead us astray from time to time. But the Spirit will always bring us back to Christ. That is why Christians repent. But one day, when we shed this "body of death" and receive our Spiritual bodies... then we will be perfect in obedience.
The inner man is Jesus. The Holy Spirit that dwells in the temple, which is the body.
There’s nothing good in a man without Jesus .
@@aletheia8054 As Paul prays in Ephesians 3: For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit IN YOUR INNER BEING, SO THAT CHRIST MAY DWELL in your hearts through faith
You have an inner being. Christ dwells in your inner being through faith. They are not the same thing.
@@brentonstanfield5198. Yes, that’s where the Inner man is. That’s where Christ is. That’s where the Holy Spirit is. He’s the inner man.
@@aletheia8054 "nothing good in man without Jesus". So a Mormon or a Muslim that feeds and shelters the homeless, that's not good? I think you are confusing "good" with "good in the form of works that earn salvation". People can still be good but not be saved. Goodness can't earn salvation unless you keep the Law of God perfectly, only faith in the the one that did keep the Law perfectly is good enough for salvation.
@@matts.6558 - The muslim and mormon can do "good acts" but cannot do it with good intentions. Because the only truly good intention is to do all for the glory of God. If they don't know God, they cannot do it for those purposes. But God does "good things" all of the time through evil people. I often use the example of an orphanage in Nazi Germany. Perhaps a boy in that orphanage prayed to God "give me this day my daily bread", and lo and behold, the Nazi administrator of that orphanage delivers the bread to that boy with the INTENTION of keeping him healthy so that he will grow up to become a good Nazi soldier. That boy can truly THANK GOD for answering the prayer through that evil hearted person. God has accomplished this good by using even the evil intentions of the Nazi administrator. God is the one who actively accomplishes ALL GOOD in this world (see James 1:17). He deserves the thanks and praise for ALL OF IT.
He can’t understand because he is spiritually dead… all of his desire are for wickedness…. Wow. Missed that one didn’t you!!
He misses a lot. He read Galatians 5:22 twice in a video and left out the word faith.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith
Once I can understand once, but twice is on purpose.
I’m not a Calvanist…but I do believe the scriptures so I do believe Calvin exegesis is mostly correct and well represented in TULIP.
Is a calvinist someone that believes the exegesis of Calvin is mostly correct and well represented in TULIP?
@@AnniEast the only way I’ve ever heard it explained by non-Calvinist is that Calvinism is the belief John Calvin is the correct and the only true exegesis of scripture. I’ve only met one person who’s ever read all of John Calvin‘s writings, and they didn’t even believe that, although they did say they were a Calvinist.
As far as Gods sovereignty, which I think is the actual issue with most people who say they are not Calvinist or anti-Calvinist is that they don’t believe God is completely sovereign.
I usually ask people a series of questions regarding God. One, did God really create all things? As in time, space, actions consciousness, history, etc. etc. Two, can God kill anybody, and it not be murder? Like in the exodus,and in the flood. And three, if those two are true, why would you believe that God’s complete sovereignty over all things is an act of evil, or that God is evil, because those things originate in his creation.
@@AnniEast Calvinism has a branding problem, so many in my observation try to decouple themselves from the label while being in concord with Calvin's main propositions.
If someone says that they are a Calvinist, I take their word for it and assign a 100% chance that they are indeed a Calvinist. If someone says that they are not a Calvinist, I reduce the probability that are really are Calvinist down to 96% because I've observed many to be liberated by moral relativism (i.e. they lie to your face) to attempt to distance themselves from the title while embracing everything distinctively Calvinistic teaching.
@@rms-vp6hf did God create all things, like time, matter, etc? Yes, I believe He did. I also believe He created His creatures with a free will and that is within His right as the Sovereign.
I also believe the bible is not all meant to be taken in one go and applied to our lives in 2023. There are many things to consider, most importantly covenants. What God did in His covenant with Israel is vastly different than what we can expect today. God did not randomly smite anyone, not even satan, which wouldve been the one to smite, dont you think? As for the Flood, there wasnt anyone righteous left and if God left it as it was it wouldve probably ended far worse by their own hands than a flood. I see the flood as an act of mercy, as many of those children who wouldve grown up wicked are now with the Lord, or atleast that is how I see it.
Sovereignty doesnt have to mean meticulous dictation, in all practicality it just doesnt. We dont use it in that sense in modern time. Im unsure why we would want to change the meaning when speaking about God? Completely sovereign means one has the liberty to do as one pleases. We can agree that God can do as He pleases, but we have to ask what pleases God? I dont see Scripture clearly teaching that it pleases God to determine sin. I can read that it pleased God to consign all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. Romans 11.
It comes down to who is guilt worthy?
If one doesnt have a choice then one cannot be held responsible. But we can be held responsible, so it logically follows we have a choice.
God is so sovereign that He can afford all people free will while still working all things for the good of those who love Him. That is His superpower. No one else in the whole of the universe can do that.
You can disagree with Calvin and still be considered a calvinist. If you hold to Tulip then you qualify. It wasnt calvin that came up with tulip. Maybe Calvin wouldnt even call himself a calvinist today. We classify people to make things easier. No one wants to be labelled, but it is to streamline conversations.
What will we say if someone say they follow the teaching of Christ, but they dont call themselves christians. That would be weird.
The title means nothing because this doctrine is taught by Paul and by Jesus himself. The Bible is so clear on this it is surprising that there is any disagreement.
John Calvin just articulated it at a time the church in Rome had gotten it all wrong. We need to be so thankful to all the reformers.
This is so bad!!😂😂
Your posts are bad lol 😂 n annoying
What's your argument?
By God's decree! 😂 Calvinism's God is expert at determining things that are "so bad" 😂
You can’t flip anything back on anyone because you are speaking incoherently
This video confirms that Total Depravity is absolutely true.
Lol
I just love how your thousands of responses to videos like these feed the algorithm and cause even more people to see it...divine determinism at its best!
@@AnniEast As everything is.
Yes, the irony isn't lost on me
@@AnniEast Comments have very little to do with “feeding the algorithm”
Square and circle point is dim witted…
Wow this went from 3rd grade level ad hominem to toddler talk..😂😂
What a grown up thing to say.
@@joshuadavidson7985 what did you say yesterday, they can't even CONSIDER that THEY could be wrong...so they lash out? Exhibit A.
So this is gas light studios..
This was hard to listen to.. it is like listening to a bunch of annoying Flowers!
Man, you are a real charmer.
That is not what gaslighting means. Read some literature on narcissists. You’ll get a good understanding. Funnily enough, most calvinists I see online have many of the traits of narcissists. Unable to consider other points of view, confabulation (Matt Slick is a pro), obfuscation (again, Slick is at god-tier), and projection are the big ones. Oh, and thinking they understand their systematic better than anyone. I’ve met maybe three that have been tolerable. Even they will not read outside their comfort zone. Great Light Studios are doing a bang up job and I applaud them.