I really enjoy the 'ride along' format of this video more than Wendell unboxing something at the bench and quickly kicking the tires before wrapping up. This model is a good middle of the road compromise, but I feel like the biggest advantage a volume supplier like TM can offer consumers is volume pricing. The MAX version of this NAS really should include a W-chipset mobo with ECC support.
This is an *incredibly* good NAS set up/tutorial video, hidden in a random NAS review. If I had watched this video 5 years ago it would have answered so many questions that I found the answers for organically over time
Nice to see these new NAS boxes with actual decent hardware like the UGREENs. I have the 8-bay UGREEN with the 1235U running Proxmox and DSM on a VM and it's been a dream. So much more power than the crap hardware Synology offers at the moment.
This gives me peace and happiness: grabbing my cup of tea and seeing a new 40min video came up with Wendell rambling while setting up stuff and giving little nuggets of gold knowledge. ❤
I use a decent 2230 ssd in a usb carrier as a flash drive, it's adorable and it's extremely responsive as opposed to actual thumb drives, not too much more expensive either.
Did this for years. Found a small case with 4-6-8 bays and installed a mini-itx Supermicro motherboard with embedded CPU like AMD EPYC (low power multi-core). It's fine for a home lab and running the NAS with ZFS and LXD which uses VMs but also native containers running at bare metal speed. Incus is a fork of LXD and is recommended. This design is more compact and now I am intrigued.
Acutally picked up some Toshiba MG Enterprise drives as they were slightly cheaper than their N300 drives when I was looking, way higher workload rating, higher MTBF and 2 more years warranty from 3 to 5.
I was very impressed with the i5-1235u. I have a cheap dell inspiron 3520 from best buy that has it and I outfitted a bunch of upgrades (under $700 all-in). It's a fun mobile dev and vm box for running lots of small workloads. Right now I have it running Qubes and it takes everything in stride. This terramaster sounds like a better desktop version of that device.
One other benefit to NAS drives is they usually don't block for ages trying to recover a sector, they'll report a read error and go about their business instead. Can be important for nas applications because if a drive doesn't respond for a long time due to retries it might get dropped from the pool.
"it CAN be fine" /me looks over at file server with 4 4tb seagate NAS (but really, they're just slightly nicer consumer level) drives that are going to be 11 years old next month
I use Greyhole as an alternative to a striped disk solution. It's just JBOD where full copies of files are placed on disk X + Z. So if one drive dies you still have your data, but there is no performance advantage over a single drive. 9 disks in a Fractal Node 804, performance is adequate as demand is just from my home machines.
I got 4 of the 10TB version, those are the worst drives I’ve ever purchased even on a very attractive price. Loud, hot and one of them failed within a few days. The rest of the drives are in read only mode and fine since three years 24/7, but the helium ones are way better! Never buy a non helium drive again! BTW where are the HAMR drives?
Sandisk Ultra Fit line are a cheap serviceable replacement for the internal USB (and look pretty much the same as the OEM one). May be not designed for 24/7 but are cheap. Verbatim and DSLRKIT have some slim and short models too.
From a hardware perspective, the UGreen NAS stuff is VERY similar. Unfortunately, the UGreen software has a way to go before becoming mature. So, instead I loaded Proxmox, TrueNAS, and Docker in a separate VM. I really wasn't aware of TerraMaster when I purchased the UGreen. I was a Synology customer before, but chose to get more horsepower. Actually, I really got enfuriated at the games that Synology is playing with the their XS+ line. So now I use the Syno unit as part of the 3-2-1 even now that it’s unsupported. The drives are relatively new though.
Not even 10 seconds in and you've already answered something I was going to ask prior to watching this video: can I get a NAS that also functions as a desktop PC? I know of one already, but I'm glad there's more options on the market.
That sounds like a terrible idea. One bit of malware could wipe out your entire storage solution. Malware that impacts network drives is far less common.
interested in recommendations of low-profile usb-disk-on-module choices for 24/7. not expecting anything exotic for write-volume, reasonable/appropriate use.
I agree that it’s a missed opportunity not to have ECC RAM. The processor should support it, the motherboard is the expensive one, one of the few being the W680 chipset that would support it. Because of this I am thinking on getting a motherboard which supports ECC RAM. Asustor recently released a new Gen3 model with ECC support which is about to become available, but the price tag is similar to building a Supermicro SuperWorkstation 531A-IL which is what I am more inclined to go for so far.
These would use UDIMMs not RDIMMs though. It's "technically" ECC. But it's the "ECC we have at home". ECC is usually better than no ECC, but if we are going to demand having it, demand the GOOD kind. Analogy: No ECC is like keeping your money in a box of cash at your home. UDIMMs are like storing your money at a bank, and bringing cash back and fourth from the bank for every transaction. RDIMMS are like storing your money in the bank, and having an armored car service do all the to/from with the money. In this case UDIMMs are certainly better than nothing, since your money is "safe" and insured while it's sitting in the bank, but you can still easily lose your cash every time you bring money in/out of the bank.
Before watching this video and just from the title I thought this thing would be great for TrueNAS, but looks like their built-in OS is pretty nice too, and with docker should be pretty capable.
Banks do not use 3-2-1 backup. Most have about 24 back-ups. They are distributed in server farms all around the world. Just imagine if your PC had 24 live backups, that are continuously backed up at the singular megabyte level. Additionally they have terabyte caches, equally distributed, all around the world.
Personally I use proxmox and run each service as a virtual machine. And I have backups of these machines so if my machine goes boom I just replace what’s bad and fire it all back up again without having to set it all up again.
With these prebuilt NAS devices, if the hardware itself fails and you connect the drives to another PC is it possible to access the array or is it completely proprietary?
Depends on the OS it’s using. This is another reason for 3-2-1 backups. You should have a cold copy that can be read on a basic windows/mac/linux system.
@@Bob_Smith19 Even with backups there are reasons to temporarily connect the drives directly to a PC in the event the NAS itself fails, it would be good to understand if the array is proprietary to TerraMaster NAS units or if there is a way to view the data Windows/Linux/MacOS with all the drives connected.
The F4-424 and F6-424 info on their site doesn't detail whether or not the drives support hot-swap or not, other products mention this in their specs - thoughts?
Have you tried using a M.2 to USB with a 90deg USB and plugging it in to the TOS USB port on the motherboard and running Proxmox or TrueNAS from it? That would free up the 2x NVME for caching.
I have plain F4-424, Terramaster usb stick is used only for OS initialization. Once there is a working array, TOS is moved there. (that is also why it might look like whatever you do, it magically resurrect itself.) For now I removed it, and installed my own small-size usb flash and installed OMV with ZFS. Just in case, I have second exactly the same flash to use to apply backup image, if first one dies, but I hope that with omv-falshplugin it should not need that. I'm still thinking on how to use m.2, so I might end up moving system there.
Wow, the glued on web gui for virtualbox hasn't changed in at least 10 years. Kinda impressive. I'll still have my lil ryzen 3100 with (sadly) truenas scale for the storage, and a handover tesla p40 in a vm for transcoding, localai funsies.
I have one version of those non-helium 8TB Western Digital disks and I can really only hear them when I download isos at 20-30MB/s, the rest of the time I can only hear the fans.
the real reason to get NAS/enterprise drives is that they are less likely to freak out your disk array with a timeout due to a internal sector reallocation or something.
Synology should really wake up, for this price they're still offering 2c/4t years old Ryzen and 1GbE. Their software is still solid ahead imo but only FOR NOW. They're gonna be eaten alive at that pace
They have less than a year to get their shit straight. The anemic hardware is trash at this point. I prefer to use the official DSM version but I may have to switch.
10000%, same thing happens with Apple. They're barely profitable at this point. Everybody prioritizes the CPU on their... NAS... and everybody runs at least 10Gb Ethernet at this point.
We really need some information about energy usage (from the wall). Only 2 seconds is just not enough. If it uses a lot of power, then what is the purpose except to save a bit of space compared to a tower?
Question: for a B550/AM4 type motherboard, what is the fastest sustained throughput internal storage solution plausible; allowing for any sort of connector devices under the assumption that any given port is available (i.e; the pcie 4.0 x16 slot is available), and capacity only has to be 1 to 4 TB?
One of the other big reasons to use Helium is heat. Spinning up that disk creates friction with whatever gas it is sitting in. 10k RPMs is pretty fast and that constant friction becomes heat. That friction also requires more power to keep them spinning. When you have a row full of racks, full of disk shelves, full of drives, (EDIT: ~40%) less power and heat matters.
It doesn't create friction with the gas. The friction comes from the spindle motor bearings, as well as heat from inefficiencies in the PWM motor itself.
@@HyenaEmpyema Those things also contribute. But the lower density of Helium, and the lower molecular weight, drastically reduce the friction of the discs themselves as they spin in the gas. If you don't believe my engineering degree, go check with the hard drive manufacturers or the numerous scholarly papers on the subject. I actually WAS off on my numbers though... ...according to the datasheets the idle power on a He drive is about 65% of air drives, not 95%. So... way better.
@@Prophes0r I don't believe your engineering degree, because the spindle is suspended in oil, not gas. please ask the online degree purveyor for a refund.
@@HyenaEmpyema What are you talking about? The platters. The Discs. The big flat plates with the data on them. They spin. They touch the gas, whether air or Helium. There is friction as they spin. Where is the misunderstanding? Further, this isn't 2005. Drive spindles don't have "grease" in them anymore. All drives use Fluid Dynamic Bearings(FDBs) which use a working fluid/gas between two (grooved) surfaces. And to be specific/pedantic, a grease is a shear-thinning semisolid of a liquid lubricant and a thickening agent, usually a soap.
I've had the f4 424 pro since release running unraid and it's been excellent so far. A couple hiccups but nothing that makes me regret the purchase. It was extremely easy to get up and running. This would be a great step up if you were looking for more power. Curious why it comes with 8gb ram instead of the 32 on the pro.
So i am wondering what would happen if you use a usb to m.2 adapter in the case and just put a extention in there so you can use the usb port to boot the nas and still have the 2 other m.2 ports for storage or for vms
I have a 4 bay terramaster nas f4-424. i mirrored the first two 8tb iron wolf hard drives.i then added a 12tb hard drive in third bay.i created a second volume but it doesn't show up in my plex only the volume 1 appears.can u or anyone give me advice on what to do. im a complete novice and i would be very greatfull for any
Any chance we could get a review of the Aoostar WTR Pro? Looks like a really solid Unraid base but I'm kind of concerned with purchasing a device from them with no real understanding of how good their QC and products are produced.
I've been waiting for something like this for years, the thing is, is it really good? I've seen some mixed reviews on amazon. I just need the last push, a bit of endorsement to buy it.
I love it as a NAS, but I tried every possible combo I could think of to get apps/vm’s stable. I’m gonna stick with the baby-squirrel raised on crack metaphor, it will just randomly die and/or bite you.
Explaining the performance of this has me thinking maybe I should just buy this to build a nas from instead of building my old i7-6700k but at the same time it's $800 i otherwise wouldn't spend and can put towards drives.
I wish Synology would release a product w/ specs close to this. I am in their ecosystem and do not want to migrate out of it. I am willing to pay a premium. But if they don’t do something in the next year or so I will have to switch to something else. Their system specs are complete trash and their software won’t keep everyone from switching to something else.
Are the community donations going to the actual devs or just someone compiling for the terramaster store? The whole community thing seems shady and weird.
Most if not all server and pc hardware comes from china. My humble oponion is that as a hobbyist, you dont need to fear that your hardware has been backdoored, as targets for something like that are corporations to gather intel or trade secrets.
RAID6 does make sense with 4 drives, as 2 random drives can fail without you loosing your data. Sad that they did not include ZFS, that would have been nice.
@@moogs It depends on use case. If you plan to plug more drives in at a regular interval, up to about 12-16 drives, you should absolutely be considering Raid6(or raidz2 which is the zfs eq.). Why? Future density. Let's say you have 4 drives. 10TB each. Raid10 get's you 20TB usable space, with MOST combinations of 2 drive failures surviving. (Not all though. 2 parity drives allows ANY combination of 2 drives to be recovered.) Raid6 get's you ~19TB(~18TB with zfs) with 2 parity drives. ANY 2 drives can fail. It will be a bit slower. Let's expand. +1 drive. Raid10 = nope. gotta add in sets of 2. Raid6 = 28.5TB data + 2 parity. +2 drives Raid10 = 30TB Raid6 = 38TB +3 drives Raid10 = nope Raid6 = 47.5TB +4 drives Raid10 = 40TB Raid6 = 57TB +5 drives Raid10 = nope Raid6 = 65.5TB ... And as another reminder, Raid10 will only recover from specific drive failures. if you lose both copies of that dataset, you lose the array. Raid6 is fine with any combination of 2 drives.
@@moogs if you look at speed and rebuild speed then maybe yes, otherwise raid6 is the more secure choice, you can loose to random disks without loosing data, with raid10 if you loose the two wrong disks then your data is gone. Also if you look at a raid calculator then raid6 is by a large factor more secure. It comes down to what you need.
The issue here being that this is awesome, but it just can't replace a xeon server. Sure, any brand new consumer chip from the last few years will slam my old Xeon 5118 into the dust on compute, but they just don't have the pcie lanes and slots to replace it. Newer Xeons are insanely expensive and consumer stuff is too limited.
Why don't these NAS companies give us 2.5" form factor? You could happily fit 16/24 drives into this chassis - not to mention less power, less noise, less heat.
The reason you don't use vacuum is because it's SUPER hard. Way harder than you might assume. Let's just look at a single(of many) problem(s). Offgassing. Lots of stuff stays in the solid/liquid phase because it is under pressure. Reducing the pressure, especially getting rid of most of it, usually makes that stuff into a gas to fill up the space. Sometimes it's really slow. Sometimes it's fast enough to matter. Not only will you lose whatever that stuff is, but you won't have a vacuum anymore, you will have gaseous X inside your drive. Any grease, plastics, organics, etc are happily going to fill the inside of this drive with gas, and probably fail to do their job. That gaseous grease/organics/etc will also condense on all the surfaces in the drive if any part is cooler than the hottest part. And this is only ONE of the many problems you have with vacuum. Vacuum is super difficult, and basically impossible to do in any passive system. The fact that you can have a vacuum thermos is a miracle, not a rule. It is basically ONLY stainless steel, welded shut, and nothing gets ruined if something accidently inside becomes a tiny bit of cas or condenses somewhere.
@@kienanvella Is it though? For US it is. But for what it was designed for, a datacenter full of hardware, it feels like just about the right level of complexity. I'm actually migrating away from Portainer to Dockge though. If you are only doing stuff on a single node, and you don't need to do a bunch of fancy volume management in the GUI, it's WAY simpler. It's made by the Uptime Kuma folks. It's like, 1 step up in functionality from a text based tool(not CLI, TUI) with a slick UI.
apoint the sides with incremental numbers like a dungeon masters dice and see if you can throw a desired number regularly EG a "Fixed Dice" I have no idea why but W T F !
Wendell's size drop is so dramatic, looking good my man I hope you're taking care of yourself.
I really enjoy the 'ride along' format of this video more than Wendell unboxing something at the bench and quickly kicking the tires before wrapping up.
This model is a good middle of the road compromise, but I feel like the biggest advantage a volume supplier like TM can offer consumers is volume pricing. The MAX version of this NAS really should include a W-chipset mobo with ECC support.
I agree to both point made here :D
Same!
Good tip on having a drink or several when agreeing to EULAs!
also, unsupervised children can agree to eula
Or just live in a reasonable legislation where anything you could not know before purchase is just invalid.
This is an *incredibly* good NAS set up/tutorial video, hidden in a random NAS review. If I had watched this video 5 years ago it would have answered so many questions that I found the answers for organically over time
Nice to see these new NAS boxes with actual decent hardware like the UGREENs. I have the 8-bay UGREEN with the 1235U running Proxmox and DSM on a VM and it's been a dream. So much more power than the crap hardware Synology offers at the moment.
This gives me peace and happiness: grabbing my cup of tea and seeing a new 40min video came up with Wendell rambling while setting up stuff and giving little nuggets of gold knowledge. ❤
A "quick look", and spends almost 45 minutes on it.
We still love you Wendel
I use a decent 2230 ssd in a usb carrier as a flash drive, it's adorable and it's extremely responsive as opposed to actual thumb drives, not too much more expensive either.
how well does that work for you inside the differemt nas that you have
Did this for years. Found a small case with 4-6-8 bays and installed a mini-itx Supermicro motherboard with embedded CPU like AMD EPYC (low power multi-core). It's fine for a home lab and running the NAS with ZFS and LXD which uses VMs but also native containers running at bare metal speed. Incus is a fork of LXD and is recommended. This design is more compact and now I am intrigued.
Acutally picked up some Toshiba MG Enterprise drives as they were slightly cheaper than their N300 drives when I was looking, way higher workload rating, higher MTBF and 2 more years warranty from 3 to 5.
MG08ACA16TE are very nice drives.
Got 6x spinning perfectly for 4 years now.
Nice one! Wendell i kinda expected the models specs in the comment.... take care dude! thanks for sharing as always
I like how casual this seems
I was very impressed with the i5-1235u. I have a cheap dell inspiron 3520 from best buy that has it and I outfitted a bunch of upgrades (under $700 all-in). It's a fun mobile dev and vm box for running lots of small workloads. Right now I have it running Qubes and it takes everything in stride. This terramaster sounds like a better desktop version of that device.
Thank you Wendell!
One other benefit to NAS drives is they usually don't block for ages trying to recover a sector, they'll report a read error and go about their business instead. Can be important for nas applications because if a drive doesn't respond for a long time due to retries it might get dropped from the pool.
After portainer went nagging with the freemium i went Dockge and never looked back; so simple and efficient!
"it CAN be fine"
/me looks over at file server with 4 4tb seagate NAS (but really, they're just slightly nicer consumer level) drives that are going to be 11 years old next month
I use Greyhole as an alternative to a striped disk solution. It's just JBOD where full copies of files are placed on disk X + Z. So if one drive dies you still have your data, but there is no performance advantage over a single drive. 9 disks in a Fractal Node 804, performance is adequate as demand is just from my home machines.
BAAAAAAH that’s punny, I love it
I find the sound of HDD seeking together kind of soothing,
Great ride-along format! Love the content, thank you Wendell. Also, appreciate the tip when agreeing to EULAs. 🍻
Regarding drives, non DC drives are also fine, if you use standby option and only use the NAS for backups :)
This is what synology should have done a long time ago
Exactly
Once you go above 6-8 TB drives. The noise is going to increase a fair amount. Especially 7200 RPM drives.
I got 4 of the 10TB version, those are the worst drives I’ve ever purchased even on a very attractive price. Loud, hot and one of them failed within a few days. The rest of the drives are in read only mode and fine since three years 24/7, but the helium ones are way better! Never buy a non helium drive again! BTW where are the HAMR drives?
Sandisk Ultra Fit line are a cheap serviceable replacement for the internal USB (and look pretty much the same as the OEM one). May be not designed for 24/7 but are cheap. Verbatim and DSLRKIT have some slim and short models too.
From a hardware perspective, the UGreen NAS stuff is VERY similar. Unfortunately, the UGreen software has a way to go before becoming mature. So, instead I loaded Proxmox, TrueNAS, and Docker in a separate VM. I really wasn't aware of TerraMaster when I purchased the UGreen. I was a Synology customer before, but chose to get more horsepower. Actually, I really got enfuriated at the games that Synology is playing with the their XS+ line. So now I use the Syno unit as part of the 3-2-1 even now that it’s unsupported. The drives are relatively new though.
Not even 10 seconds in and you've already answered something I was going to ask prior to watching this video: can I get a NAS that also functions as a desktop PC? I know of one already, but I'm glad there's more options on the market.
That sounds like a terrible idea.
One bit of malware could wipe out your entire storage solution.
Malware that impacts network drives is far less common.
interested in recommendations of low-profile usb-disk-on-module choices for 24/7. not expecting anything exotic for write-volume, reasonable/appropriate use.
I agree that it’s a missed opportunity not to have ECC RAM. The processor should support it, the motherboard is the expensive one, one of the few being the W680 chipset that would support it. Because of this I am thinking on getting a motherboard which supports ECC RAM. Asustor recently released a new Gen3 model with ECC support which is about to become available, but the price tag is similar to building a Supermicro SuperWorkstation 531A-IL which is what I am more inclined to go for so far.
These would use UDIMMs not RDIMMs though.
It's "technically" ECC. But it's the "ECC we have at home".
ECC is usually better than no ECC, but if we are going to demand having it, demand the GOOD kind.
Analogy:
No ECC is like keeping your money in a box of cash at your home.
UDIMMs are like storing your money at a bank, and bringing cash back and fourth from the bank for every transaction.
RDIMMS are like storing your money in the bank, and having an armored car service do all the to/from with the money.
In this case UDIMMs are certainly better than nothing, since your money is "safe" and insured while it's sitting in the bank, but you can still easily lose your cash every time you bring money in/out of the bank.
Before watching this video and just from the title I thought this thing would be great for TrueNAS, but looks like their built-in OS is pretty nice too, and with docker should be pretty capable.
This thing looks cool. And it was nice of Terramaster to name this after me! lol
Now I’m waiting for Meteor Lake NAS boxes to come soon, maybe we’ll finally get AV1 encoding?
Nope. Rejected!
I remember when we went to air bearings in HDDs, 7200 RPMs was finally tolerable in a desktop.
Banks do not use 3-2-1 backup. Most have about 24 back-ups. They are distributed in server farms all around the world. Just imagine if your PC had 24 live backups, that are continuously backed up at the singular megabyte level. Additionally they have terabyte caches, equally distributed, all around the world.
Wait, what are those prices and names? Basic is 9€/ _a_month_ (108€/year)? Plus 58€/year and Premium 49€/year?
Yes. We want and need the Forbidden router
You should use a browser plugin like dark reader.. The second the white web GUI popped on my screen I started revealing all my secrets.
Personally I use proxmox and run each service as a virtual machine. And I have backups of these machines so if my machine goes boom I just replace what’s bad and fire it all back up again without having to set it all up again.
With these prebuilt NAS devices, if the hardware itself fails and you connect the drives to another PC is it possible to access the array or is it completely proprietary?
Depends on the OS it’s using. This is another reason for 3-2-1 backups. You should have a cold copy that can be read on a basic windows/mac/linux system.
@@Bob_Smith19 Even with backups there are reasons to temporarily connect the drives directly to a PC in the event the NAS itself fails, it would be good to understand if the array is proprietary to TerraMaster NAS units or if there is a way to view the data Windows/Linux/MacOS with all the drives connected.
The F4-424 and F6-424 info on their site doesn't detail whether or not the drives support hot-swap or not, other products mention this in their specs - thoughts?
Have you tried using a M.2 to USB with a 90deg USB and plugging it in to the TOS USB port on the motherboard and running Proxmox or TrueNAS from it? That would free up the 2x NVME for caching.
@Level1Techs What was the ram kit part number used
Oh... "pair drop to your NAS"... I was looking up "pear drop" : )
This was like "Drunk History," but for Homelabbing. 🤣
Any suggestions for a cheaper alternative NAS? What do you think of the UGREEN nas boxes they've released?
I have plain F4-424, Terramaster usb stick is used only for OS initialization. Once there is a working array, TOS is moved there. (that is also why it might look like whatever you do, it magically resurrect itself.)
For now I removed it, and installed my own small-size usb flash and installed OMV with ZFS. Just in case, I have second exactly the same flash to use to apply backup image, if first one dies, but I hope that with omv-falshplugin it should not need that.
I'm still thinking on how to use m.2, so I might end up moving system there.
Wow, the glued on web gui for virtualbox hasn't changed in at least 10 years. Kinda impressive.
I'll still have my lil ryzen 3100 with (sadly) truenas scale for the storage, and a handover tesla p40 in a vm for transcoding, localai funsies.
You last backup focused video was 4+ years ago! Would love an update!
15:15 are those harddrives sounds on background ? :D
Danget. I was considering this, but decided to go DIY with a N5105.
I have one version of those non-helium 8TB Western Digital disks and I can really only hear them when I download isos at 20-30MB/s, the rest of the time I can only hear the fans.
the real reason to get NAS/enterprise drives is that they are less likely to freak out your disk array with a timeout due to a internal sector reallocation or something.
Synology should really wake up, for this price they're still offering 2c/4t years old Ryzen and 1GbE. Their software is still solid ahead imo but only FOR NOW. They're gonna be eaten alive at that pace
They have less than a year to get their shit straight. The anemic hardware is trash at this point. I prefer to use the official DSM version but I may have to switch.
I've had many disappointments with Synology software. Particularly with synology drive.
10000%, same thing happens with Apple. They're barely profitable at this point.
Everybody prioritizes the CPU on their... NAS... and everybody runs at least 10Gb Ethernet at this point.
We really need some information about energy usage (from the wall). Only 2 seconds is just not enough. If it uses a lot of power, then what is the purpose except to save a bit of space compared to a tower?
Is it bigger on the inside for more storage? #TARDISMASTER
Question: for a B550/AM4 type motherboard, what is the fastest sustained throughput internal storage solution plausible; allowing for any sort of connector devices under the assumption that any given port is available (i.e; the pcie 4.0 x16 slot is available), and capacity only has to be 1 to 4 TB?
wanna see proxmox install, bare metal !!! need a low power, 3rd node - i don't have to build or tune or test or test apart or rebuild or build again!
Proxmox should install with no fuss at all. The only possible issue is does Proxmox have the latest stuff for good use of P and E cores.
Sounds like it would make a great forbidden router. W dual 10gb nic.
14:22
I could have guessed that Wendell. But so have I.
I was enebreated your honour!
Love that you used `*******` as a password for pihole. Nobody would ever guess it and the website is smart enough to replace it with stars!
How stable is terramaster? I see connection and file manager disappearing issues in amazon reviews. Has there been any updates to fix those?
can you test out doing av1 encoding with handbreak in vm and container? or do you already know what one will work better?
One of the other big reasons to use Helium is heat.
Spinning up that disk creates friction with whatever gas it is sitting in.
10k RPMs is pretty fast and that constant friction becomes heat.
That friction also requires more power to keep them spinning.
When you have a row full of racks, full of disk shelves, full of drives, (EDIT: ~40%) less power and heat matters.
It doesn't create friction with the gas. The friction comes from the spindle motor bearings, as well as heat from inefficiencies in the PWM motor itself.
@@HyenaEmpyema Those things also contribute.
But the lower density of Helium, and the lower molecular weight, drastically reduce the friction of the discs themselves as they spin in the gas.
If you don't believe my engineering degree, go check with the hard drive manufacturers or the numerous scholarly papers on the subject.
I actually WAS off on my numbers though...
...according to the datasheets the idle power on a He drive is about 65% of air drives, not 95%.
So... way better.
@@Prophes0r I don't believe your engineering degree, because the spindle is suspended in oil, not gas. please ask the online degree purveyor for a refund.
@@HyenaEmpyema What are you talking about?
The platters. The Discs. The big flat plates with the data on them.
They spin. They touch the gas, whether air or Helium. There is friction as they spin.
Where is the misunderstanding?
Further, this isn't 2005.
Drive spindles don't have "grease" in them anymore.
All drives use Fluid Dynamic Bearings(FDBs) which use a working fluid/gas between two (grooved) surfaces.
And to be specific/pedantic, a grease is a shear-thinning semisolid of a liquid lubricant and a thickening agent, usually a soap.
I've had the f4 424 pro since release running unraid and it's been excellent so far. A couple hiccups but nothing that makes me regret the purchase. It was extremely easy to get up and running. This would be a great step up if you were looking for more power. Curious why it comes with 8gb ram instead of the 32 on the pro.
So i am wondering what would happen if you use a usb to m.2 adapter in the case and just put a extention in there so you can use the usb port to boot the nas and still have the 2 other m.2 ports for storage or for vms
I have a 4 bay terramaster nas f4-424. i mirrored the first two 8tb iron wolf hard drives.i then added a 12tb hard drive in third bay.i created a second volume but it doesn't show up in my plex only the volume 1 appears.can u or anyone give me advice on what to do. im a complete novice and i would be very greatfull for any
Any chance we could get a review of the Aoostar WTR Pro? Looks like a really solid Unraid base but I'm kind of concerned with purchasing a device from them with no real understanding of how good their QC and products are produced.
I've been waiting for something like this for years, the thing is, is it really good? I've seen some mixed reviews on amazon. I just need the last push, a bit of endorsement to buy it.
I love it as a NAS, but I tried every possible combo I could think of to get apps/vm’s stable. I’m gonna stick with the baby-squirrel raised on crack metaphor, it will just randomly die and/or bite you.
Can the internal USB be used for a Coral TPU?
They seem better than most (QNAP) on the software side but Virtualbox for virtualization? That seems pretty half-baked especially in current year.
So how is the software compared to Synology?
Would the nvme slots be compatible with the google coral ai accelerator chip?
Nice NAS, although i like more the pricing of the N305 version.
cheers
Explaining the performance of this has me thinking maybe I should just buy this to build a nas from instead of building my old i7-6700k but at the same time it's $800 i otherwise wouldn't spend and can put towards drives.
Seems like a nice, convenient option for people who want that, but I just cant get behind a proprietary OS. I'd rather put Proxmox on it or something.
I wish Synology would release a product w/ specs close to this. I am in their ecosystem and do not want to migrate out of it. I am willing to pay a premium. But if they don’t do something in the next year or so I will have to switch to something else. Their system specs are complete trash and their software won’t keep everyone from switching to something else.
Take a shot everytine Wendell says “precision mechanical instruments”
Are the community donations going to the actual devs or just someone compiling for the terramaster store? The whole community thing seems shady and weird.
Im showing my noobness but with that hard drive setup would ceph be a good option
Thanks for the review.
Just read that Terramaster is a Chines product? Or you not affraid of backdoors?
Most if not all server and pc hardware comes from china. My humble oponion is that as a hobbyist, you dont need to fear that your hardware has been backdoored, as targets for something like that are corporations to gather intel or trade secrets.
RAID6 does make sense with 4 drives, as 2 random drives can fail without you loosing your data. Sad that they did not include ZFS, that would have been nice.
No way. RAID10 is the only choice here.
@@moogs It depends on use case.
If you plan to plug more drives in at a regular interval, up to about 12-16 drives, you should absolutely be considering Raid6(or raidz2 which is the zfs eq.).
Why? Future density.
Let's say you have 4 drives. 10TB each.
Raid10 get's you 20TB usable space, with MOST combinations of 2 drive failures surviving.
(Not all though. 2 parity drives allows ANY combination of 2 drives to be recovered.)
Raid6 get's you ~19TB(~18TB with zfs) with 2 parity drives. ANY 2 drives can fail. It will be a bit slower.
Let's expand.
+1 drive.
Raid10 = nope. gotta add in sets of 2.
Raid6 = 28.5TB data + 2 parity.
+2 drives
Raid10 = 30TB
Raid6 = 38TB
+3 drives
Raid10 = nope
Raid6 = 47.5TB
+4 drives
Raid10 = 40TB
Raid6 = 57TB
+5 drives
Raid10 = nope
Raid6 = 65.5TB
...
And as another reminder, Raid10 will only recover from specific drive failures. if you lose both copies of that dataset, you lose the array. Raid6 is fine with any combination of 2 drives.
There's a 6 bay version of this NAS with hot swap...
@@moogs if you look at speed and rebuild speed then maybe yes, otherwise raid6 is the more secure choice, you can loose to random disks without loosing data, with raid10 if you loose the two wrong disks then your data is gone. Also if you look at a raid calculator then raid6 is by a large factor more secure. It comes down to what you need.
I'm not sure if
"RAID 6 makes sense with 4 drives"
or
"loosing your data"
Is the dumbest thing I've read this week.
Why don’t they just make HDDs a sealed vacuum? Cooling?
As a repair tech screws flying and hitting the ground is sometimes a nightmare.
Can you transcode 4K video in realtime on this CPU?
This would be fun with a dom hosting unraid os with ZFS and beta 7
The issue here being that this is awesome, but it just can't replace a xeon server. Sure, any brand new consumer chip from the last few years will slam my old Xeon 5118 into the dust on compute, but they just don't have the pcie lanes and slots to replace it. Newer Xeons are insanely expensive and consumer stuff is too limited.
No ECC? I’m scared to look at the price.
Processor supports ECC
I’ve tried doing the USB4/TB networking on my 2 MS-01’s. It’s a house of cards, do not recommend, even in a homelab. It’s just completely unstable.
Certainly more hardware than what Synology is offering.
Major understatement. Synology hardware is trash at this point.
Why don't these NAS companies give us 2.5" form factor? You could happily fit 16/24 drives into this chassis - not to mention less power, less noise, less heat.
Cause it’s expensive af
All flash storage is cost prohibitive.
They've existed for a long time, I setup a pair of 24 bay Synology flash model like 7-8 years ago for a customer.
@@DEJ915 Really, what was the model?
@@0w784g I don't recall, it was their flashstation line which they still sell. I know qsan and qnap also have 2.5" models for SSDs.
didn't know coolermaster had this side to them
Why not use a vacuum rather than helium?
Helium is a very efficient thermal conductor! I did no know this.
another problem with a vacuum is vibration. there's no pressure on the discs to stop them from vibrating.
@@sirmonkey1985 No... that's not how it works.
Well, maybe the tinyest bit, but not enough to matter.
The reason you don't use vacuum is because it's SUPER hard.
Way harder than you might assume.
Let's just look at a single(of many) problem(s). Offgassing.
Lots of stuff stays in the solid/liquid phase because it is under pressure.
Reducing the pressure, especially getting rid of most of it, usually makes that stuff into a gas to fill up the space.
Sometimes it's really slow. Sometimes it's fast enough to matter.
Not only will you lose whatever that stuff is, but you won't have a vacuum anymore, you will have gaseous X inside your drive.
Any grease, plastics, organics, etc are happily going to fill the inside of this drive with gas, and probably fail to do their job.
That gaseous grease/organics/etc will also condense on all the surfaces in the drive if any part is cooler than the hottest part.
And this is only ONE of the many problems you have with vacuum.
Vacuum is super difficult, and basically impossible to do in any passive system.
The fact that you can have a vacuum thermos is a miracle, not a rule.
It is basically ONLY stainless steel, welded shut, and nothing gets ruined if something accidently inside becomes a tiny bit of cas or condenses somewhere.
Kubernetes vs portainer !! Portainer is awesome but if you have more computers it gets complicated.
Kubernetes is unnecessarily complex for what the end goal is.
There's a lot more work needed before it can be recommended for small scale use.
@@kienanvella Is it though?
For US it is.
But for what it was designed for, a datacenter full of hardware, it feels like just about the right level of complexity.
I'm actually migrating away from Portainer to Dockge though.
If you are only doing stuff on a single node, and you don't need to do a bunch of fancy volume management in the GUI, it's WAY simpler.
It's made by the Uptime Kuma folks.
It's like, 1 step up in functionality from a text based tool(not CLI, TUI) with a slick UI.
Anyone try this machine as a NVR with Frigate with a Coral TPU?
12:14 blue light Wendel jumpscare
apoint the sides with incremental numbers like a dungeon masters dice and see if you can throw a desired number regularly EG a "Fixed Dice" I have no idea why but W T F !
I live by AngryIP. Easy enough to hunt a network with open ports