I know it’s not the most important thing, whether it cuts is, but it has always stuck me that when using the angle guide resting on the primary bevel that the angle is a degree or 2 off if not more because it is not parallel with the centreline of the blade. It is less of a problem with a thin blade but is accentuated when the blade is thicker with a steep primary like these 2 knives. Just for the heck of it I’m gonna try to measure the taper of the blade on the next thick blade I get and see how much it throws off the angle.
Outdoors55 just addressed this. My view; who's to say that the actual angle isn't better? Angles are arbitrary anyway. I'm happy with 30-ish degrees on most knives. I go with a "cheeky 30" on japanese style knives and a fat 30 on cleavers and h8nting knives. Until we all came along no one even cared about the angles. Much ado about nothing I'd say.
@@iSharpen I do cleavers with a fatter 22°- 35° convex grind to give more support behind the edge and make them less prone to chipping. I use a fixed angle machine with a cranked guide rod I made to get the convexity though, cos my support bar won’t go high enough.
@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797 with me, it depends on the type of cleaver but yeah, the big heavy 5mm ones I do at 40-ish too. But the thin vegetable/Chinese cleavers I do at 26-30 (ish)
That’s a good question because these have such a bad reputation but every one that I’ve done (these are the 3rd and 4th pair) has been this sharp so I’m guessing these are made from the 420.
I've mentioned this a few times in comments here and there. When I first saw it on the release video the day they released it my immediate reaction was "overcomplicated for absolutely no reason". It was the same reaction I had to those computer appllets that make you measure projection then enter a whole heap of measured dimensions into software and then go and set everything up precisely with calipers on the machine. I've not made a secret of the fact that I think knife angles are largely over emphasised in sharpening. I can make almost any knife as sharp as it needs to be without even using the WM-200. Just by eye. Now, I have sharpened literally thousands of knives and the WM-200 is essential when starting off but I'd put any of my "guessed it" angles against a "correct and perfect" angle any day and besides...who set these angles? Who's to say that a 13 is better than a 15 or an 18? People are getting too carried away and obsessed with measuring angles. If it looks like and it slices thin paper cleanly then you got the most important thing correct - the apex. A sharp knife is 90% edge and 10% angle. And yeah, I'm probably exaggerating there but seriously, there's no way I'd spend that long fart arsing around with that thing when the WM-200 can do the EXACT same job in 5 seconds. The WM-200 does have it's issues which I'm working on addressing. Namely the wearing out but I've got that sorted now I think thanks to a user suggestion and some careful observation. I'm going to create and glue a wear plate onto the back of the pointer so it doesn't wear out. Once I've got that sorted the WM-200 will be my forever tool for roughing out an angle. Take away any angle tool from me now and I'll still be able to continue as a sharpener and do the exact same job. Summary: an over complicated waste of time and money. It reminds me of Microsoft releasing a new version of windows all the time just to appear relevant and new. You asked. 🤣
@iSharpen now that's an answer!! I'm just heading to bed so I'll read this over coffee ☕️ tomorrow on my back deck. Looks like a good read. Thanks ahead of time on all the effort you put in on this.
@@buckw65 I used to own and admin large communities and forums back in the early part of this century. User interaction is key to success. I was always the biggest poster.
@iSharpen good morning from 🇨🇦 Baz. That was an amazing reply to read over my morning coffee ☕️. I totally agree with you how , how to we rate or quantify sharp. I worked as a millwright for a test lab for 6 years. The right question is just as important as the right answer. So I'd say , can the knife cut with minimal effort. I would think any angle that solves this is proper. I believe you've hit the nail on the head there. It's angle and stability of support for that angle that's important. There are always sacrifices in design. Thanks for that detailed answer! I've thought about putting a carbide insert on the bottom of my angle finder to correct that wear point issue. I'll keep you posted on that. I'm still working on the look of my apex grind as it follows a radius or curve of the blade. I'm still struggling with keeping it consistent. I'll get some 12 Guage stainless coupons from work and practice that apex/curve grind issue I have. Thanks again really appreciate the help
@@buckw65 Yeah I was thinking of epoxying a thin sheet of stainless to the back or even just the bottom portion of the pointer. That plastic is soft and I'm sure it wasn't meant to be used dozens of times a day on a professional basis but the concept and speed of use for the WM200 makes it a great tool. Just got to address that wear issue. I've measured the angle set with a worn one compared to the angle as set on a fresh new one and the difference is only a few degrees. For example, If I set it to 13 degrees on a really worn pointer that new pointer shows it's more like 15 which is still much the same (unless on a thick knife) so it's not a massive issue unless you're training for the knife angle olympics or something. I have chefs still happy with how sharp knives I sharpened over a year ago are today. That's how I know that the things we fuss over matter less than we imagine. It stems from our desire to get things as good as possible. But in the commercial environment it's less relevant. I was talking to a knife (meat process) worker and he said they have an automatic machine they just stick their knives into and it's always been set to 20 degrees per side. Anything less than that is going to be as sharp as hell. That's how I know our fussing over a few degrees here or there makes farque all difference.
The straight length of the knives I've done are starting to look good. Its the curved edge on the end im not happy with. My sharpened edge goes from 2mm to 6-7mm and doesn't look uniform or professional. Ill study your technique till i get it. Thanks for the videos
There are several factors on the ends including the thickness. A thick heel will increase the size of the bevel and a thin tip will reduce it even though you've got the perfect bevel and travel speed.
Haha! Funny story, everyone who brings me one of these says it was a gift. People mean well I suppose. But yeah this belongs to a chef customer and he actually likes using the Haako a lot. He says it's never been this sharp before though. It'll be interesting to see how long the edge lasts.
@@iSharpen I actually believe them! My grandma has 2 of these, spesifically because my granddad came across an ad, thinking it would be perfect for her. A well meaning gift from someone spending 0 time in the kitchen, to a person who spends hours there every day. They have started using a better steel since the first "generation" though, the first ones were made from some kind of cheap structural steel and would literally dull after 3 cuts. I did some experimentation with them and alot of these types of steels really seem to work best with a super fine edge. Both Haako and most IKEA knives works best for me if taken to 3-5000 grit, more than that and they become fragile. I have no idea why, but im guessing its because the fine edge allows you to use them more gently so they retain their edge a bit longer. Oh well, as long as the user is happy thats what actually matters. I just think these are a bit funny since they have essentially become a meme at this point :D
@@kvernesdotten To be honest, they grind very easily (confirming they're not hard steel) but I've always been able to get a really nice slice out of them which tells me they're not bad steel either. I do know that a lot of people have seen them so I'm hoping this video might be popular as people get curious about how iSharpen them.
@@iSharpen Haha understandable, hope it goes well! Btw, have you tried the new angle finder KS-123 yet? I mostly sharpen by hand but considering getting it to see if I like Tormek sharpening more then
@@kvernesdotten Not convinced that taken 10 times longer to find an angle is going to help me when I'm busy. It might be fun for the hobbiest but (as with the electronic angle finder applets), I don't have time to fart around with something that's unnecessarily complicated. The WM-200 works perfectly well except that it does wear out but I have a fix coming up for that plus a user gavce me a great tip on stopping the wear completely by altering the way I use it. I like that I can find an angle in 3 seconds. Not everything new is good - I think the new knife holder is an example.
I know it’s not the most important thing, whether it cuts is, but it has always stuck me that when using the angle guide resting on the primary bevel that the angle is a degree or 2 off if not more because it is not parallel with the centreline of the blade. It is less of a problem with a thin blade but is accentuated when the blade is thicker with a steep primary like these 2 knives. Just for the heck of it I’m gonna try to measure the taper of the blade on the next thick blade I get and see how much it throws off the angle.
Outdoors55 just addressed this. My view; who's to say that the actual angle isn't better? Angles are arbitrary anyway. I'm happy with 30-ish degrees on most knives. I go with a "cheeky 30" on japanese style knives and a fat 30 on cleavers and h8nting knives. Until we all came along no one even cared about the angles. Much ado about nothing I'd say.
@@iSharpen
I do cleavers with a fatter 22°- 35° convex grind to give more support behind the edge and make them less prone to chipping. I use a fixed angle machine with a cranked guide rod I made to get the convexity though, cos my support bar won’t go high enough.
@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797 with me, it depends on the type of cleaver but yeah, the big heavy 5mm ones I do at 40-ish too. But the thin vegetable/Chinese cleavers I do at 26-30 (ish)
Is that the husk made from 420j2 or the pot metal?
That’s a good question because these have such a bad reputation but every one that I’ve done (these are the 3rd and 4th pair) has been this sharp so I’m guessing these are made from the 420.
Hi there. Nice videos, thank you! What are you using to grade your stone?
Thanks! Common ebay diamond sharpening plates. I did a video on it.
ruclips.net/video/6GQTnw4-p_4/видео.html
Hey Baz , what do you think of that new Tormek KS 123 knife angle setter ???
I've mentioned this a few times in comments here and there. When I first saw it on the release video the day they released it my immediate reaction was "overcomplicated for absolutely no reason".
It was the same reaction I had to those computer appllets that make you measure projection then enter a whole heap of measured dimensions into software and then go and set everything up precisely with calipers on the machine.
I've not made a secret of the fact that I think knife angles are largely over emphasised in sharpening. I can make almost any knife as sharp as it needs to be without even using the WM-200. Just by eye.
Now, I have sharpened literally thousands of knives and the WM-200 is essential when starting off but I'd put any of my "guessed it" angles against a "correct and perfect" angle any day and besides...who set these angles? Who's to say that a 13 is better than a 15 or an 18?
People are getting too carried away and obsessed with measuring angles. If it looks like and it slices thin paper cleanly then you got the most important thing correct - the apex. A sharp knife is 90% edge and 10% angle. And yeah, I'm probably exaggerating there but seriously, there's no way I'd spend that long fart arsing around with that thing when the WM-200 can do the EXACT same job in 5 seconds.
The WM-200 does have it's issues which I'm working on addressing. Namely the wearing out but I've got that sorted now I think thanks to a user suggestion and some careful observation. I'm going to create and glue a wear plate onto the back of the pointer so it doesn't wear out. Once I've got that sorted the WM-200 will be my forever tool for roughing out an angle.
Take away any angle tool from me now and I'll still be able to continue as a sharpener and do the exact same job.
Summary: an over complicated waste of time and money. It reminds me of Microsoft releasing a new version of windows all the time just to appear relevant and new.
You asked. 🤣
@iSharpen now that's an answer!! I'm just heading to bed so I'll read this over coffee ☕️ tomorrow on my back deck. Looks like a good read. Thanks ahead of time on all the effort you put in on this.
@@buckw65 I used to own and admin large communities and forums back in the early part of this century. User interaction is key to success. I was always the biggest poster.
@iSharpen good morning from 🇨🇦 Baz. That was an amazing reply to read over my morning coffee ☕️. I totally agree with you how , how to we rate or quantify sharp. I worked as a millwright for a test lab for 6 years. The right question is just as important as the right answer. So I'd say , can the knife cut with minimal effort. I would think any angle that solves this is proper. I believe you've hit the nail on the head there. It's angle and stability of support for that angle that's important. There are always sacrifices in design. Thanks for that detailed answer!
I've thought about putting a carbide insert on the bottom of my angle finder to correct that wear point issue. I'll keep you posted on that.
I'm still working on the look of my apex grind as it follows a radius or curve of the blade. I'm still struggling with keeping it consistent. I'll get some 12 Guage stainless coupons from work and practice that apex/curve grind issue I have.
Thanks again really appreciate the help
@@buckw65 Yeah I was thinking of epoxying a thin sheet of stainless to the back or even just the bottom portion of the pointer. That plastic is soft and I'm sure it wasn't meant to be used dozens of times a day on a professional basis but the concept and speed of use for the WM200 makes it a great tool. Just got to address that wear issue. I've measured the angle set with a worn one compared to the angle as set on a fresh new one and the difference is only a few degrees. For example, If I set it to 13 degrees on a really worn pointer that new pointer shows it's more like 15 which is still much the same (unless on a thick knife) so it's not a massive issue unless you're training for the knife angle olympics or something.
I have chefs still happy with how sharp knives I sharpened over a year ago are today. That's how I know that the things we fuss over matter less than we imagine. It stems from our desire to get things as good as possible. But in the commercial environment it's less relevant. I was talking to a knife (meat process) worker and he said they have an automatic machine they just stick their knives into and it's always been set to 20 degrees per side. Anything less than that is going to be as sharp as hell. That's how I know our fussing over a few degrees here or there makes farque all difference.
The straight length of the knives I've done are starting to look good. Its the curved edge on the end im not happy with. My sharpened edge goes from 2mm to 6-7mm and doesn't look uniform or professional. Ill study your technique till i get it. Thanks for the videos
There are several factors on the ends including the thickness. A thick heel will increase the size of the bevel and a thin tip will reduce it even though you've got the perfect bevel and travel speed.
@@iSharpen I'll keep practicing. Thanks again
Aah the infamous Lithuanian cheese knives. Not because they are meant to cut cheese, but because they are made from it 🤣Was this for a customer?
Haha! Funny story, everyone who brings me one of these says it was a gift. People mean well I suppose. But yeah this belongs to a chef customer and he actually likes using the Haako a lot. He says it's never been this sharp before though. It'll be interesting to see how long the edge lasts.
@@iSharpen I actually believe them! My grandma has 2 of these, spesifically because my granddad came across an ad, thinking it would be perfect for her. A well meaning gift from someone spending 0 time in the kitchen, to a person who spends hours there every day.
They have started using a better steel since the first "generation" though, the first ones were made from some kind of cheap structural steel and would literally dull after 3 cuts. I did some experimentation with them and alot of these types of steels really seem to work best with a super fine edge. Both Haako and most IKEA knives works best for me if taken to 3-5000 grit, more than that and they become fragile. I have no idea why, but im guessing its because the fine edge allows you to use them more gently so they retain their edge a bit longer.
Oh well, as long as the user is happy thats what actually matters. I just think these are a bit funny since they have essentially become a meme at this point :D
@@kvernesdotten To be honest, they grind very easily (confirming they're not hard steel) but I've always been able to get a really nice slice out of them which tells me they're not bad steel either. I do know that a lot of people have seen them so I'm hoping this video might be popular as people get curious about how iSharpen them.
@@iSharpen Haha understandable, hope it goes well! Btw, have you tried the new angle finder KS-123 yet? I mostly sharpen by hand but considering getting it to see if I like Tormek sharpening more then
@@kvernesdotten Not convinced that taken 10 times longer to find an angle is going to help me when I'm busy. It might be fun for the hobbiest but (as with the electronic angle finder applets), I don't have time to fart around with something that's unnecessarily complicated.
The WM-200 works perfectly well except that it does wear out but I have a fix coming up for that plus a user gavce me a great tip on stopping the wear completely by altering the way I use it. I like that I can find an angle in 3 seconds. Not everything new is good - I think the new knife holder is an example.