12:27 "Are you aware that Starcraft does not have a Korean civ?" has to be one of the greatest quips an engineer has ever given to their business manager.
ARGH. Had some kind of terminal brain infarction while doing this video and REPEATEDLY referred to Ian Fischer as Ian "livingstone" who of course is a completely different person. I am so sorry Ian. It's even more humiliating to me because Ian's common nickname at Ensemble Studios was " Fish" so there's zero excuse for me mistaking his last name.
That would have been a really cool mechanic, and have some grounding in history. Wonder if the QA testers would have approved though, it's possible to get ships up on land as is, and that might have made it even worse :P Still, it would have given the vikings a very interesting water identity and would probably have been a blast to use.
@@SandyofCthulhu But worth it just to sneak a fleet across the map, or hide them onland. AoE1 was my first home PC game, and AoE2 was my first or second bought PC game. Thanks.
@@polishedpebble4111 I did a realistic map of the Mediterranean and Near East for it, where I had to exaggerate the size of Greece and Anatolia in order for Athens and Sparta to have space for town centers. ruclips.net/video/aYy80ojsnj0/видео.html&ab_channel=SCINTILLAMDEI My favourite is the second one in the HD version but the original one is amazing and enchanting despite silly Wololoes.
@@SandyofCthulhu and the crew shooting arrows? or ramming/grapneling (could also be a 'charge' for cavalry) if its imitable with shooting a unit-shaped projectile and generating the unit again near the impact point? something like how transport ships pick where to unload, people discovered it can be used as a random generator in scenarios :D donno tho how it could be prevented from noclip over water/walls (tho not a far cry from gps-arbalests, those coulda work like scorpions imo chivalry:hegemony mod meant to realistify some of this but was taken the wrong way too but some ideas from there do pop up in DE lately...) tarkan is ok choice now its even on wikipedia lately, coming prly from scythian 'tarxant' = tax-immune (i.e. nobleman) and imo via the sarmatian-roman foederati auxilia, the etymological root of Pendragon (pen meaning head both in welsh and the valais language of the hun descendants in Val d'Anniviers in Switzerland, capital of the valley is Pensace=Head-seat/settling) kurgans in archaeology are the burial mounds of steppe people
The Christmas gift i remember the most is my copy of Age Of Empires 2…i was 5-6 years old. It was my first new video game and i played the heck out of it. Now I play it on console. Thanks for making my young self a very very happy kid about 20 years ago. I still enjoy playing it so much.
We’re you really responsible for the conquerors expansion? That was a really great expansion to the game. I remember bugging my parents to get me it for Christmas, then after they bought it I found it about a month or 2 before Christmas in a closet and very carefully opened it up, took the cd out and put my age of kings cd in the case, then I put the conquerors cd in my age of kings case, so I could install it and play it every day before Christmas. My parents never noticed. 😂 Happy memories.
I really was. That was my first project at Ensemble in which I was the lead designer. I have good memories of it too but I didn't get to hide it in my closet.
@@SandyofCthulhu just out of interest, on the subject of super units, was you responsible for making any of the cheat units like the cobra cars for example? I had a lot of fun with them as a kid, usually when the ai was kicking my ass. Mass Cobras counter everything. 😂
@@stephanusghibellino absolutely, I was 12 at the time so similar age to yourself and people used to tell me I was so weird for playing the same game all the time. Years later and I’m amazed by how many people I now know who were doing exactly the same thing around the same time. 😂 the fact there’s still so many of us playing it 2 decades later shows what an incredible job the original developers did.
@@stephanusghibellino I'm doing a colossal (4X bigger than "gigantic") realistic map of América from Canada to Tierra del Fuego for Age of Empires 2 HD so I can have the Aztec Empire fight the Incan Empire in the proper context. Also includes is all of Africa, all of Japan, eastern China, southern Korea, northern Philippines, Hawaii, Easter Island, some of Israel and Arabia, Ireland to Greece and west of these. Tonight I plan to finish putting the trees in Mesoamérica. Later I have to do all of the tree in Africa, western Europe and eastern Asia. Then come the birds and the land creatures. Then I test the game. Then I plan to make a video demanding something in exchange for my not-free map: a good video of your use of one of my other maps: Eurasia, Far East, EVROPA, the world, the Spanish lake, the ancient world for the original Age of Empires. I've been working on this map for over 4 months beecause I pay attention to detail. I started in May....
(19:47) The town centers with longer range never really being tested as forward attack bases reminds me of an article I read a long time ago in a book by Steve Jackson Games titled "Game Design Vol. 1: Theory and Practice" Somewhere in it, they talked about how you need to test crazy strategies when designing board games in order to root out weird balance anomalies. They talked about the defender in the future cybertank board game Ogre using just a bunch of a single type of unit (like all howitzers or heavy tanks) in order to root out any weird design anomalies that would mess with the game balance. So, your story is a great example lesson for game designers out there to make sure to try out those crazy strategies that "nobody would ever use"! 😉
The fearsome town center forward lives on with the Persia civ! In the Dark age Persian tc's have more hp. Some players gather a bunch of wood, delete their starting tc, and rebuild it within range of the enemy starting tc in hopes of shooting it down
It's so cool to see that your idea of the longboat having the ability to act as a barracks carried over to AoE3 with the Galleon having the ability to train infantry and cavalry when they're on the shore. Since you mentioned later on in the video that you also worked on the WarChiefs Expansion of AoE3, did you also design the AoE3 Galleons?
You are like... ten years late in my life. I needed to see this video ten years ago! I know, there were guides back then, but they weren't coming out of your mouth. Nice video. Please make more
I don't know how often you catch up with the game, but both the original Cataphract and Samurai concept has been implemented last summer. The latest DLC, Dynasties of India has the Ratha Chariot, unique unit of the Bengalis, which can switch between bow and sword, and the first Definitive Edition DLC from 2 years ago, Lords of the West has Coustiliers for the Burgundians, have a "charge attack" (horse unit), a strong initial attack with a cooldown period. Come to think of it, the last DLC's Urumi Swordsman (Dravidians) also works the same way, although it is an infantry unit.
For myself, a good solution would have been to have longboats be able to construct a special fortified barracks on the shore that could produce weak but fast raiding units. Not unlike the Donjons of the Sicilian Normans in the present game. Historical Norse are thought to have constructed fortified beach/riverbank fortifications to protect their boats when they were planning on being around for a while. Having this special coastal barracks/tower produce a cheap, weak, but fast infantry unit with a bonus against buildings would have been reasonably easy to balance, as they would be outclassed by most other infantry, but excellent for raiding. The barracks also could have justifiably made Scout Cavalry, as Norse raiders were known to make capturing horses a priority so they could scout.
I would love for Teuton town centers to gain their range back upon creating a castle, would be a fun return to their earlier design instead of just their longer range castles
@@SandyofCthulhu will watch it! on another note, did the team discuss the possibilities of adding other civs like the vandals, saxons, late western romans or slavs? I understand that you wouldn't like the game to be overcrowded with germanic civs or make a big umbrella civ like the slavs though.
One theory I've heard about the Saracens is that at some point someone saw a text when by a European during the middle ages and described how the Saracens would "throw" their swords. "Throw" is a verb often used to describe the action of a cut. One "throws" a cut. Anyway, the theory goes that someone more modern read this text and misinterpreted it, thinking they were literally chucking their scimitars at their enemies. Is it possible that someone at ES had heard that interpretation and gone with it, whether doing so to deliberately buy into the popular misperception (similar to deliberately insisting samurai wield katanas and only katanas) or accidentally falling for the mistake itself?
It's amazing to be able to listen to you and see all the things that didn't work in 2, but made it to 3: like the ships producing units idea. Also there are some ideas you guys had that have made it into the newer expansions. I seriously love Age of Empires 2. It may sound weird, but it kind if shaped my life, giving me my live if history, and made me a gamer. Thank you so much for making it one of the best games of all time!
@@SandyofCthulhu I guess the ayes have it. From my point of view, you were the Call Of Cthulu guy, then the Doom guy, then it turns out they're the same guy, and they helped on AOE. I can imagine if marketed well, you could reach a lot of people.
Interesting to hear you talk about how the cataphracts were potentially going to be able to swap between range and melee as in the latest expansion there is a new unique unit, the Ratha, a chariot that swaps between range and melee
Sandy was there an element to the game you wish you could add? There have been some suggestions about giving civs with similar architectures age specific bonuses... Such as all meso civs having +1 LOS on villagers during dark age. When Feudal age hits the meso civs would lose that bonus and gain a new bonus such as eagle warriors gain +5% speed. Did you have any ideas as radical as that but were unable to implement it?
There were many ideas I was not able to add. I never had the concept of bunching together civs with similar architectures, because really we didn't give those civs anything in common, but we had ideas as far out as aliens and dragons and sea monsters.
My first thought for Berserkers would be an ability where when they take lethal damage, they keep fighting for a bit before actually dying. I wonder what made you go with Renegeration. I guess so the Vikings are more focused on hit-and-run tactics?
13:27 Really? If I type "Kobukson" in Google I still see the good old AOE II Turtle Ships... Were they expecting a Panokseon? 14:45 Oh, yeah Sandy, we do condemn you for that, LOL. 15:54 The design on War Chiefs' Aztecs is superb. I was amazed by seeing all the book units protrayed in the game. That was a master work. 17:35 I had been my entire youth trying to find those "throwing scimitars", hahahahaha. But the unit is still amazing, to be honest. I think we missed the Turks, isn't it?
yeah I forgot the turks somehow. When we did the rounded-back turtle ships we got huge flak from Korea and they demanded we do a narrower long ship. We were just trying to keep out of trouble.
Two things puzzled me as a kid about AoE2. The first is the Tarkan's name, thanks for clearing that up. The other thing was in the game manual, there was a description for a horde formation. Kid me thought that was a cool formation.
The Huns are such mysteries, not helped that we didn't learn about them in ancient history classes and it's easy to confuse their name with the Han Dynasty of China
Right back atcha. My wife lived in Chile from age 5-11, and spoke Spanish as her first language at that time. So she has fond memories of Chile. Sometimes she still makes Chilean style empanadas (though I now make her use olives without pits after nearly cracking a tooth), and buys membrilla for her sandwiches.
Would love a long video of Sandy watching various Pro games/strategies in the game theses days. And how it compares to how they played back in the play testing days. Etc. Preferably with a knowledgeable person involved with the game these days.
You were one of the AOE2 devs? That game was my childhood! Although all i'd do is the Scottish tutorial campaign repeatedly. That or i'd make cheesy maps in the map editor, where i have all buildings/units and the enemy is a solitary King is a pathetic 3x3x3 castle wall
using the longboats as transports would have been cool. Especially if they also worked like towers - the more units you garrison, the more arrows they can shoot.(or like a ram - more units on board=more rowers=more speed) This could also solve the mobile barrack problem: Just produce units and instantly garrison them, unload them at the shore, rinse repeat. It would also make the ship extremely vulnerable, because sure you have a great mobile production unit and could harass a player with it, but they can also easily kill off your army and production building with all the spent resources by sinking it while it still carries the units. The viking navy would be really strong with a fully garrisoned longboat, but also a costly loss if they are sunk.
It would be interesting to see the samurai with their original bonus. Just like now the burgundians now have that ability for their unique cavalry unit
Great stuff Sandy! With each civ's unique stats such as eco upgrades and bonus damages. Did you focus more on the historical accuracy or rather in the balancing side? Or a bit of both like how you did the unique units?
@@SandyofCthulhu Thanks! Its interesting how you put "Must be fun" as the first priority. Many of my University teachers keep telling me that fun isn't that important nor a requirement. Its strange that the teachers are telling me that, while a professional like yourself tells me other wise.
@@SandyofCthulhu These stands should be in the game like some golden rules very hard coded deep in the game. Loved the game back then, love the game right now. I don't think you ever imagined how great was what you guys were doing in late 90s
God _Damn_ do I love the sound of Cataphracts that could switch between melee and ranged modes. I guess the fact that Byzantines still get to have Heavy Cavalry Archers is an attempt at a bit of compensation for that.
For the longboat, what could have been done is give them the ability to build a certain number of berserker, like lets say 5. So after 5 berserks that longboat cant make any more berserk. And give them the garrison mechanic like a barrack, so you produce the 5 berserks and they are loaded in the ship, you can then drop them off like with a transport, but once dropped off the longboat couldn't pick them back up. This would have combined both ideas into one.
I really like the idea of longboats being able to transport units. Maybe the Vikings could have had a unique tech that upgraded their transport ships into longboats so they didn't have a redundancy. Regardless, I've played and loved AoE2 to this day ever since Age of Kings first came out.
Hey Sandy I have some questions about Aoe1 design, would appreciate it if you have any insights: 1. Why did trade exist in naval form for Aoe1, but not for land via carts? 2. In the Eqyptian tutorial campaign, the player is introduced to "discoveries" in a single mission. Discoveries are never used as an objective in the Campaigns again as far as I recall,save for this tutorial mission. Why was that so?
Splash damage teutonic knights i would love that! But with that out of the way, what was the design reason behind not giving the dutch besides their unique ship any powerfull water bonusses/ unique homecity shipments (besides the one that upgrades the fluyt's hp)? As a dutchman i would love to know :)
Did you have a chance to test the Aoe2 DE lately and see how Supert Units changed? Also, i think you will be please to know that now there are Poles with Winged Huzsars in the game.
you know, just idly listening to all these scrapped ideas for unique units, like the "really strong first attack" idea for the Samurai, the Cataphracts switching between ranged and melee... it's interesting to look back and see how many of these ideas actually got implemented for other Unique Units later on in Age 2's expansions.
@@SandyofCthulhu Yeah it wouldn't be worth it most of the time. But it could be disruptive like when we build a single sneak barracks or stable at the back of the opponent's base. It might screw with the balance but sounds like a cool idea
Nowadays competitive gameplay landings are just a few units and a few villagers, to drop production buildings on the enemy island because microing transport ships is much more effort than securing a beachhead and building knights right at the front
The idea of longboat serving as barracks was brilliant idea. I wonder myself why this unit is unable to transport units… missed opportunity. Perhaps it will be fixed in the future in some dlc about Vikings being splitted into Danes, Norwegians and Swedes.
Not really. They could be defeated by good infantry in exactly the same way that tanks are today. Admittedly good infantry was rare back in the dark ages.
Been on a real binge playing the HD version of Age of Empires 2. There's currently a sale for the definitive editions. What's your opinion Sandy, would you recommend these remakes? Also, I like the idea of Mayan 'foot' archers walking around on their hands and shooting bows with their feet, to skirt the rules of history. XD
Dude, the DE comes with all of HD dlcs plus its own expansion and it is a far superior experience to HD, being full of QoL improviments. Unless you are broke, there is no reason to play the HD version outside of one campaign that was replaced, which wasnt even good from what ive heard.
DE is absolutely worth it if you like AoE. There is no question about that at all. Especially since it's quite cheap anyway and not a $60 game. And if you want to play multiplayer, DE is the way to go. It's actively played and there are regular streams and tournaments. The last one with over 70k viewers and $100k prize pool was just a few weeks ago. So if you are into AoE, it's near (one of) its peak now after over 20 years.
Hi sandy- I want to ask: what is your view on the Persian town center rush (called TC Douche by the community)? It is lower range than the teuton version but has twice the HP and builds faster, so is still very difficult to interact with.
Longboat/barracks should've been an addon, to equalized it with normal Barracks, in fact even a bit more expensive and it also made it slower to move. Would've been cool.
@@SandyofCthulhu Yes please! The levels Tower of despair: just a very crazy level. It seems very weird but it 'works' really well with loads of tricks and traps and different sections Elder God Shrine: Wow. Again very cool, huge, loads of ideas. Some people hate the long corridors but I love them Palace of Hate: The thing that is cool about this level is that is very open plan and when you know it you can speed run it super quick. Was this intentional? Hells Atrium: Very difficult secret level entrance! Again another great level The Namesless city: Super hard! Any differences in designing a secret level? the Pain Maze: This is perhaps most people's fav level of the episode. Very hard. Room of Spawns, alters to defile, very maze like. Azure agony: the Masterpiece! Again what is cool is the beginning you have no idea where to go and there are lots of different exits, but once you are on the path it's one long glorious fight through the level.
Speaking of samurais, I, a non-communist, did a video called "A conquistador refutes the Metatron on Samurais VS Spaniards" where I include a picture of my almost finished Age of Empires 2 HD map of roughly the western hemisphere (colossal and realistic; 4 months and I'm not finished with it), and show how this game influenced me to get closer to my roots to the point of buying conquistador armour which I used throughout Miami and its subrubia on a bike and one time on a horse). I wish longboats could serve as transport ships, but then galleons and other types would have to be able to do the same... which should have happened. And the five elephants but not more than five archers injustice is a problem that is the stuff of memes. Gracias de nuevo por sus aportaciones señor.
Man that armor must have been hot in the summer time. I understand that many of the Spanish soldiers switched to Aztec-style cotton armor after a few months in the New World. It makes sense.
@@SandyofCthulhu I finished the map I exhibited in an upload. You can have it for free if you're not too busy. "COLOSSAL REALISTIC AMÉRICA & ÁFRICA MAP for Age of Empires 2 HD "
Is there any reason why you didn't talk about Turks? Also will you be covering the recent DLC? I remember you talked about Poles been a cool civ and they added it!! :)
Tarkan, is also an early 70s turkish movie series - detailing the adventures of Tarkan the warrior. ruclips.net/video/P80ibcICf4Y/видео.html he is the one with the amulet in this scene.
@@SandyofCthulhu Oh for sure :) I would have wanted to say they're so bad that they're good but, they're simply bad :D it is engrained in the collective conciousness within Turkey though, anyone who ever played age of kings the conquerors, was sure to be awestruck by that unit.
I don't know if you're a Tolkien fan or not, but: when I was a kid I always thought that the perfect game would be "Age of Empires: Silmarillion edition". I know it would be impossible because of rights issues but... could you share with us HOW WOULD YOU DO IT? Please, please, please?
You mention Eisenstein "managing to survive Stalin", but there's a legend about Alexander Nevsky! As originally edited, the film contained one reel more than the version preserved today. This longer version was presented to Josef Stalin for preview (as was every Soviet film). When the reels were retrieved from the screening by the production company, one of them - depicting a riot in the city of Novgorod - was mysteriously missing. Though no explanation was provided, it was determined that as this short length of film had not received Stalin's explicit approval, it must be removed and destroyed immediately.
Were you or people on the team not terrified of not giving Mesoamerican civs no Knights or other mounted units?!? Especially considering the online meta was: As soon as you hit castle age, make knights and crush enemy's pathetic feudal army! (Unless you're Teutons) :D
@@SandyofCthulhu Well, the result was great! A completely unique way to play the new Meso-civs (and well-balanced too). Thanks for taking the time to answer.
@@SandyofCthulhu funnily enough, AoE 2 DE did add a secret recruitable cavalry unit for the mesoamericans that you can only recruit from a converted stable, but the unit itself is not very viable because it has no upgrades outside of the melee ones from the blacksmith.
Hey Sandy, i love your videos esp those talking about AOE, i was wondering if you could do a video on the choices you made for AOE 3 in particular when it comes to civs. like we know AOE 3 shipped with 8 civs, but with 2 more planned (Italians and Swedes) but i wonder how come not 12 (so like Danes and Poles) or how come that Germany was chosen to be added considering they didn't really colonize the new world and how come the Germans work the way they are from a design perspective. like it is just an idea for a fun video, but i love the content regardless.
I am planning an Age 3 video. The Germans did colonize the new world though not as a nation (since they weren't one). There were Germans in Jamestown. But the real reason for the German civ is because Age sold super well in Germany.
Now I want to see Sandy work on one of those mobile Mafia King type games, making awesome gangster units! Also, Mr. Krabs is Rawhide from Buckaroo Banzai?!
I played the open stress test and i though the game was absolutely fine. Did you played it? and what was you issues with it? I think that If you ever played more than one game in this series and at minimum enjoyed them, i see no reason why you wouldnt also enjoy 4 at minimum. The only bad stuff was they trying to reinvent the wheel with the hotkeys but most people who like RTSs never uses hotkeys anyways.
Sandy I'm gonna be honest with you, I think the Viking Longboat doubling as a transport would have been outright too strong. Part of the spice of dropping units on enemy islands or coastlines is the lack of defense you have and the need to either field a navy to defend the landing, clear the landing point, or stealth your transports in, all-in style. If you could just deathblob a mass of longboats and then have the longboats start dropping off trebs on the land it would be an unbeatable strategy once you got the ball rolling on it
Let's be honest, when Sandy posts about his time with AoE, we all get excited. This man is responsible for arguably THE best RTS to ever grace us.
well Ian Fischer, Rick Goodman, Mark Terrano and others had a TON to do with it as well.
12:27 "Are you aware that Starcraft does not have a Korean civ?" has to be one of the greatest quips an engineer has ever given to their business manager.
Sandy and Spirit of the Law. The Crossover we never knew we wanted to see.
I love that guy. He knows FAR MORE about AoE than me. Though I know more about its origins.
ARGH. Had some kind of terminal brain infarction while doing this video and REPEATEDLY referred to Ian Fischer as Ian "livingstone" who of course is a completely different person. I am so sorry Ian. It's even more humiliating to me because Ian's common nickname at Ensemble Studios was " Fish" so there's zero excuse for me mistaking his last name.
10:50 Well that explains how Mr. Krabs knew how to hide that dead body the time they thought they killed the health inspector...
yes indeed. Lucky the inspector's head wasn't cut off.
Sandy, thank you for sharing these anecdates. It’s great to see/hear behind the curtain, and a joy to listen to you tell your stories. TY
thanks!
I didn’t expect you to mention SpiritOfTheLaw, that was awesome! This was a really interesting video!
I do not regard myself as a competitor for Spirit of the Law, but as an admirer.
That Spirit of the law shout out, you know you made a good AoE channel when even sandy watches you.
Viking Longboats should have packed up like a trebuchet, and then transport overland, and unpak in water again, to reference real history.
That would have been a really cool mechanic, and have some grounding in history. Wonder if the QA testers would have approved though, it's possible to get ships up on land as is, and that might have made it even worse :P Still, it would have given the vikings a very interesting water identity and would probably have been a blast to use.
wow I can only imagine the many interesting bugs this would lead to.
@@SandyofCthulhu But worth it just to sneak a fleet across the map, or hide them onland. AoE1 was my first home PC game, and AoE2 was my first or second bought PC game. Thanks.
@@polishedpebble4111 I did a realistic map of the Mediterranean and Near East for it, where I had to exaggerate the size of Greece and Anatolia in order for Athens and Sparta to have space for town centers.
ruclips.net/video/aYy80ojsnj0/видео.html&ab_channel=SCINTILLAMDEI
My favourite is the second one in the HD version but the original one is amazing and enchanting despite silly Wololoes.
@@SandyofCthulhu and the crew shooting arrows?
or ramming/grapneling (could also be a 'charge' for cavalry) if its imitable with shooting a unit-shaped projectile and generating the unit again near the impact point? something like how transport ships pick where to unload, people discovered it can be used as a random generator in scenarios :D donno tho how it could be prevented from noclip over water/walls (tho not a far cry from gps-arbalests, those coulda work like scorpions imo chivalry:hegemony mod meant to realistify some of this but was taken the wrong way too but some ideas from there do pop up in DE lately...)
tarkan is ok choice now its even on wikipedia lately, coming prly from scythian 'tarxant' = tax-immune (i.e. nobleman) and imo via the sarmatian-roman foederati auxilia, the etymological root of Pendragon (pen meaning head both in welsh and the valais language of the hun descendants in Val d'Anniviers in Switzerland, capital of the valley is Pensace=Head-seat/settling) kurgans in archaeology are the burial mounds of steppe people
11:10 so Samurai could be Infantry version of Burgundian Coustillier :D
The Christmas gift i remember the most is my copy of Age Of Empires 2…i was 5-6 years old. It was my first new video game and i played the heck out of it. Now I play it on console. Thanks for making my young self a very very happy kid about 20 years ago. I still enjoy playing it so much.
We’re you really responsible for the conquerors expansion? That was a really great expansion to the game. I remember bugging my parents to get me it for Christmas, then after they bought it I found it about a month or 2 before Christmas in a closet and very carefully opened it up, took the cd out and put my age of kings cd in the case, then I put the conquerors cd in my age of kings case, so I could install it and play it every day before Christmas. My parents never noticed. 😂 Happy memories.
I really was. That was my first project at Ensemble in which I was the lead designer. I have good memories of it too but I didn't get to hide it in my closet.
@@SandyofCthulhu just out of interest, on the subject of super units, was you responsible for making any of the cheat units like the cobra cars for example? I had a lot of fun with them as a kid, usually when the ai was kicking my ass. Mass Cobras counter everything. 😂
@@stephanusghibellino absolutely, I was 12 at the time so similar age to yourself and people used to tell me I was so weird for playing the same game all the time. Years later and I’m amazed by how many people I now know who were doing exactly the same thing around the same time. 😂 the fact there’s still so many of us playing it 2 decades later shows what an incredible job the original developers did.
@@stephanusghibellino I'm doing a colossal (4X bigger than "gigantic") realistic map of América from Canada to Tierra del Fuego for Age of Empires 2 HD so I can have the Aztec Empire fight the Incan Empire in the proper context. Also includes is all of Africa, all of Japan, eastern China, southern Korea, northern Philippines, Hawaii, Easter Island, some of Israel and Arabia, Ireland to Greece and west of these. Tonight I plan to finish putting the trees in Mesoamérica. Later I have to do all of the tree in Africa, western Europe and eastern Asia. Then come the birds and the land creatures. Then I test the game. Then I plan to make a video demanding something in exchange for my not-free map: a good video of your use of one of my other maps: Eurasia, Far East, EVROPA, the world, the Spanish lake, the ancient world for the original Age of Empires. I've been working on this map for over 4 months beecause I pay attention to detail. I started in May....
@@87PLS i made zero of the super units. THose are all on the artists
(19:47) The town centers with longer range never really being tested as forward attack bases reminds me of an article I read a long time ago in a book by Steve Jackson Games titled "Game Design Vol. 1: Theory and Practice" Somewhere in it, they talked about how you need to test crazy strategies when designing board games in order to root out weird balance anomalies. They talked about the defender in the future cybertank board game Ogre using just a bunch of a single type of unit (like all howitzers or heavy tanks) in order to root out any weird design anomalies that would mess with the game balance. So, your story is a great example lesson for game designers out there to make sure to try out those crazy strategies that "nobody would ever use"! 😉
You're Ensemble stories are something else. So interesting. I hope you make more. It's a crime this vid only has a few thousand views.
I wish I knew how to enhance it.
The fearsome town center forward lives on with the Persia civ! In the Dark age Persian tc's have more hp. Some players gather a bunch of wood, delete their starting tc, and rebuild it within range of the enemy starting tc in hopes of shooting it down
more HP is one thing. 5 tiles extra range is another.
It's so cool to see that your idea of the longboat having the ability to act as a barracks carried over to AoE3 with the Galleon having the ability to train infantry and cavalry when they're on the shore. Since you mentioned later on in the video that you also worked on the WarChiefs Expansion of AoE3, did you also design the AoE3 Galleons?
You are like... ten years late in my life. I needed to see this video ten years ago! I know, there were guides back then, but they weren't coming out of your mouth.
Nice video. Please make more
The Mangudai is probably the most beautiful unique unit in the game, love playing them
And here I thought it was the awesome jumping fish.
I don't know how often you catch up with the game, but both the original Cataphract and Samurai concept has been implemented last summer. The latest DLC, Dynasties of India has the Ratha Chariot, unique unit of the Bengalis, which can switch between bow and sword, and the first Definitive Edition DLC from 2 years ago, Lords of the West has Coustiliers for the Burgundians, have a "charge attack" (horse unit), a strong initial attack with a cooldown period. Come to think of it, the last DLC's Urumi Swordsman (Dravidians) also works the same way, although it is an infantry unit.
Didnt one of AoE 3 ships let you train units when on the shore? I guess you cant stop the Sandy, only delay him.
Yes, the galleon.
@@josejoaquim4344 yeah. We remembered the idea in Age 3 and since it wasn't just for a single civ we could ram it through the programmers.
For myself, a good solution would have been to have longboats be able to construct a special fortified barracks on the shore that could produce weak but fast raiding units. Not unlike the Donjons of the Sicilian Normans in the present game. Historical Norse are thought to have constructed fortified beach/riverbank fortifications to protect their boats when they were planning on being around for a while. Having this special coastal barracks/tower produce a cheap, weak, but fast infantry unit with a bonus against buildings would have been reasonably easy to balance, as they would be outclassed by most other infantry, but excellent for raiding. The barracks also could have justifiably made Scout Cavalry, as Norse raiders were known to make capturing horses a priority so they could scout.
I was going to say!?!
I would love for Teuton town centers to gain their range back upon creating a castle, would be a fun return to their earlier design instead of just their longer range castles
aww, you missed turks!
Holy smokes I did indeed! Whoa. I'll try to correct it in my next AoE video which I think is next week.
@@SandyofCthulhu will watch it! on another note, did the team discuss the possibilities of adding other civs like the vandals, saxons, late western romans or slavs? I understand that you wouldn't like the game to be overcrowded with germanic civs or make a big umbrella civ like the slavs though.
yeah I noticed it too
One theory I've heard about the Saracens is that at some point someone saw a text when by a European during the middle ages and described how the Saracens would "throw" their swords. "Throw" is a verb often used to describe the action of a cut. One "throws" a cut.
Anyway, the theory goes that someone more modern read this text and misinterpreted it, thinking they were literally chucking their scimitars at their enemies. Is it possible that someone at ES had heard that interpretation and gone with it, whether doing so to deliberately buy into the popular misperception (similar to deliberately insisting samurai wield katanas and only katanas) or accidentally falling for the mistake itself?
It's amazing to be able to listen to you and see all the things that didn't work in 2, but made it to 3: like the ships producing units idea. Also there are some ideas you guys had that have made it into the newer expansions.
I seriously love Age of Empires 2. It may sound weird, but it kind if shaped my life, giving me my live if history, and made me a gamer. Thank you so much for making it one of the best games of all time!
20:48 : Oh... You MONSTER!!! (me remebering when i play LAN with my pals after school in the lates 00´s)
I really like these talks about your video game design years, thank you so much for these chats and for all your work on them back in the day.
Thank you for your work! ❤
You've been involved in so many various things that shaped me. I'd love if you sold a course on game design.
Love means spend money.
believe it or not there is a movement within my company to force me to do just that.
@@SandyofCthulhu I guess the ayes have it.
From my point of view, you were the Call Of Cthulu guy, then the Doom guy, then it turns out they're the same guy, and they helped on AOE.
I can imagine if marketed well, you could reach a lot of people.
Interesting to hear you talk about how the cataphracts were potentially going to be able to swap between range and melee as in the latest expansion there is a new unique unit, the Ratha, a chariot that swaps between range and melee
Would like to see one for the Warchiefs and/or even Vanilla AoE3 . Those are quite awesome
I will probably do one for the warchiefs upcoming because it was super fun to design.
@@SandyofCthulhu please do that !
I'd love to see you talk about AoE3
Love the shirt!
I'm wearing it right now. It's from Bella+Canvas, probably from a GenCon way back when.
Love watching Sandy share tales about AOE development
guess I should do more.
Sandy was there an element to the game you wish you could add? There have been some suggestions about giving civs with similar architectures age specific bonuses... Such as all meso civs having +1 LOS on villagers during dark age. When Feudal age hits the meso civs would lose that bonus and gain a new bonus such as eagle warriors gain +5% speed.
Did you have any ideas as radical as that but were unable to implement it?
There were many ideas I was not able to add. I never had the concept of bunching together civs with similar architectures, because really we didn't give those civs anything in common, but we had ideas as far out as aliens and dragons and sea monsters.
My first thought for Berserkers would be an ability where when they take lethal damage, they keep fighting for a bit before actually dying. I wonder what made you go with Renegeration. I guess so the Vikings are more focused on hit-and-run tactics?
13:27 Really? If I type "Kobukson" in Google I still see the good old AOE II Turtle Ships... Were they expecting a Panokseon?
14:45 Oh, yeah Sandy, we do condemn you for that, LOL.
15:54 The design on War Chiefs' Aztecs is superb. I was amazed by seeing all the book units protrayed in the game. That was a master work.
17:35 I had been my entire youth trying to find those "throwing scimitars", hahahahaha. But the unit is still amazing, to be honest.
I think we missed the Turks, isn't it?
yeah I forgot the turks somehow. When we did the rounded-back turtle ships we got huge flak from Korea and they demanded we do a narrower long ship. We were just trying to keep out of trouble.
Two things puzzled me as a kid about AoE2. The first is the Tarkan's name, thanks for clearing that up. The other thing was in the game manual, there was a description for a horde formation. Kid me thought that was a cool formation.
Not sure what happened to the horde.
The Huns are such mysteries, not helped that we didn't learn about them in ancient history classes and it's easy to confuse their name with the Han Dynasty of China
Good to see you still vertical, you marvelous bastard! Been a long time, great to see you so successful!
Hey I'm only 66. And a non-smoker, so I figure I got a few good years left.
Please, make more videos about Age 2! For example your reaction to the desigh of new unique units!
Loved the video!
thanks!
Hi Peter Sandyson, I'm currently modding AOE3DE and I learn a lot watching your videos. Greetings from Chile.
Right back atcha. My wife lived in Chile from age 5-11, and spoke Spanish as her first language at that time. So she has fond memories of Chile. Sometimes she still makes Chilean style empanadas (though I now make her use olives without pits after nearly cracking a tooth), and buys membrilla for her sandwiches.
Would love a long video of Sandy watching various Pro games/strategies in the game theses days. And how it compares to how they played back in the play testing days. Etc. Preferably with a knowledgeable person involved with the game these days.
I have Alexander Nevsky, absolutely fantastic movie
You were one of the AOE2 devs?
That game was my childhood! Although all i'd do is the Scottish tutorial campaign repeatedly. That or i'd make cheesy maps in the map editor, where i have all buildings/units and the enemy is a solitary King is a pathetic 3x3x3 castle wall
4:00 Could've made the units made in the Long Boats cost extra.
using the longboats as transports would have been cool. Especially if they also worked like towers - the more units you garrison, the more arrows they can shoot.(or like a ram - more units on board=more rowers=more speed) This could also solve the mobile barrack problem: Just produce units and instantly garrison them, unload them at the shore, rinse repeat. It would also make the ship extremely vulnerable, because sure you have a great mobile production unit and could harass a player with it, but they can also easily kill off your army and production building with all the spent resources by sinking it while it still carries the units. The viking navy would be really strong with a fully garrisoned longboat, but also a costly loss if they are sunk.
It would be interesting to see the samurai with their original bonus. Just like now the burgundians now have that ability for their unique cavalry unit
Great stuff Sandy! With each civ's unique stats such as eco upgrades and bonus damages. Did you focus more on the historical accuracy or rather in the balancing side? Or a bit of both like how you did the unique units?
I had three priorities. Number One - must be fun. Number Two - must be easy to play & balanced. Number Three - historical verisimilitude.
@@SandyofCthulhu Thanks! Its interesting how you put "Must be fun" as the first priority. Many of my University teachers keep telling me that fun isn't that important nor a requirement. Its strange that the teachers are telling me that, while a professional like yourself tells me other wise.
@@Djturd64 I guess it's true what they say: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." :P
@@krinkrin5982 Hahahaha maybe. I'm just glad we got someone like Sandy sharing his knowledge! best education right here haha.
@@SandyofCthulhu These stands should be in the game like some golden rules very hard coded deep in the game. Loved the game back then, love the game right now. I don't think you ever imagined how great was what you guys were doing in late 90s
Mr Krabs is also Lex Luthor in the DC Animated Universe
God _Damn_ do I love the sound of Cataphracts that could switch between melee and ranged modes. I guess the fact that Byzantines still get to have Heavy Cavalry Archers is an attempt at a bit of compensation for that.
Well, we now have the Ratha chariot from the Indian Dynasties DLC, which does just that.
Longboat as a transport would have been interesting.
As a barracks too. It is relatively rare that you ever build more than 1 barracks in the game. Anything in the barracks is countered by other choices.
You ever consider reviewing movies based off of Lovecraft's work? I'd love to get your opinion on alot of these.
You know I guess I have not done an actual video about Just Lovecraft Movies. Good idea. Now it's upcoming.
@@SandyofCthulhu Thank you, Sandy!
Mr. Peterson helped design my childhood.
That's a bummer. A whole week of videos RUclips didn't put in the subscription tab.
Zoological misinformation? 🤷♂️
If only Congress play tested the rules they write.
Bison and llama riders?
Riding skills
For the longboat, what could have been done is give them the ability to build a certain number of berserker, like lets say 5.
So after 5 berserks that longboat cant make any more berserk.
And give them the garrison mechanic like a barrack, so you produce the 5 berserks and they are loaded in the ship, you can then drop them off like with a transport, but once dropped off the longboat couldn't pick them back up.
This would have combined both ideas into one.
I really like the idea of longboats being able to transport units. Maybe the Vikings could have had a unique tech that upgraded their transport ships into longboats so they didn't have a redundancy. Regardless, I've played and loved AoE2 to this day ever since Age of Kings first came out.
or maybe a tech that allow their transport ships to shoot while embarked, however I think unique techs came in conquerors
ooh I like the idea of having longboats be a transport upgrade. That is genius. Wish I'd thought of it.
Hey Sandy I have some questions about Aoe1 design, would appreciate it if you have any insights:
1. Why did trade exist in naval form for Aoe1, but not for land via carts?
2. In the Eqyptian tutorial campaign, the player is introduced to "discoveries" in a single mission. Discoveries are never used as an objective in the Campaigns again as far as I recall,save for this tutorial mission. Why was that so?
Splash damage teutonic knights i would love that! But with that out of the way, what was the design reason behind not giving the dutch besides their unique ship any powerfull water bonusses/ unique homecity shipments (besides the one that upgrades the fluyt's hp)? As a dutchman i would love to know :)
Did you have a chance to test the Aoe2 DE lately and see how Supert Units changed? Also, i think you will be please to know that now there are Poles with Winged Huzsars in the game.
the hussars were totally my nod to the Poles. No Poles in the original game but we had the hussars.
you know, just idly listening to all these scrapped ideas for unique units, like the "really strong first attack" idea for the Samurai, the Cataphracts switching between ranged and melee... it's interesting to look back and see how many of these ideas actually got implemented for other Unique Units later on in Age 2's expansions.
Could have made unit production time on the longboat could be really long, so that you'd need a large fleet to build even a reasonable force
But then why do it? Instead just build them in the rax and use transports. Speed is life.
@@SandyofCthulhu Yeah it wouldn't be worth it most of the time. But it could be disruptive like when we build a single sneak barracks or stable at the back of the opponent's base. It might screw with the balance but sounds like a cool idea
Nowadays competitive gameplay landings are just a few units and a few villagers, to drop production buildings on the enemy island because microing transport ships is much more effort than securing a beachhead and building knights right at the front
This is gold for any aoe fan, thanks Sandy!
The idea of longboat serving as barracks was brilliant idea. I wonder myself why this unit is unable to transport units… missed opportunity. Perhaps it will be fixed in the future in some dlc about Vikings being splitted into Danes, Norwegians and Swedes.
Would you be willing to be interviewed about your time working on Age 2 at some point?
I used to work at Fantasy Flight Games, and wanted to connect.
Nice. What I would also love to know is who came up with the car cheat?
Weren’t all knight on horse like tanks on the medievel battlefield? Not just the Greek-Byzantine caraphrakes.
Not really. They could be defeated by good infantry in exactly the same way that tanks are today. Admittedly good infantry was rare back in the dark ages.
I could watch hours and hours more of this
Nice fez
Sandy I need to know where you got that hat
fez-o-rama.com/
@@SandyofCthulhu Sandy you're a godsend
"You don't need 20 barracks"
Goths : you underestimate by cheapness
Been on a real binge playing the HD version of Age of Empires 2. There's currently a sale for the definitive editions. What's your opinion Sandy, would you recommend these remakes?
Also, I like the idea of Mayan 'foot' archers walking around on their hands and shooting bows with their feet, to skirt the rules of history. XD
Dude, the DE comes with all of HD dlcs plus its own expansion and it is a far superior experience to HD, being full of QoL improviments. Unless you are broke, there is no reason to play the HD version outside of one campaign that was replaced, which wasnt even good from what ive heard.
DE is absolutely worth it if you like AoE. There is no question about that at all. Especially since it's quite cheap anyway and not a $60 game.
And if you want to play multiplayer, DE is the way to go. It's actively played and there are regular streams and tournaments. The last one with over 70k viewers and $100k prize pool was just a few weeks ago. So if you are into AoE, it's near (one of) its peak now after over 20 years.
I have only played the new versions on Steam vs. my granddaughter. They look fine to me.
Scimitars as throwing weapons would be so ridiculously expensive, I love it.
Since you mentioned SotL, do you play AoE DE or watch streams/tournaments?
nope
Hi sandy- I want to ask: what is your view on the Persian town center rush (called TC Douche by the community)? It is lower range than the teuton version but has twice the HP and builds faster, so is still very difficult to interact with.
I do not believe it builds faster. That would be Spanish or Sicilians. Persian TCs simply work faster (unit production and research speed).
Nevskii was a fantastic movie, very good, if a little silly at time
but it's silly in the absolutely best way
@@SandyofCthulhu I always wondered where that hero unit in the editor came from :'D
I'd love to see you play the DEs one day xD
Longboat/barracks should've been an addon, to equalized it with normal Barracks, in fact even a bit more expensive and it also made it slower to move. Would've been cool.
HEY. I thought about longboats being a transport ship too. that would be so cool
Still waiting for the Quake Episode 4 Level design disucssion Sandy! Azure Agony!
level by level?
@@SandyofCthulhu Yes please! The levels
Tower of despair: just a very crazy level. It seems very weird but it 'works' really well with loads of tricks and traps and different sections
Elder God Shrine: Wow. Again very cool, huge, loads of ideas. Some people hate the long corridors but I love them
Palace of Hate: The thing that is cool about this level is that is very open plan and when you know it you can speed run it super quick. Was this intentional?
Hells Atrium: Very difficult secret level entrance! Again another great level
The Namesless city: Super hard! Any differences in designing a secret level?
the Pain Maze: This is perhaps most people's fav level of the episode. Very hard. Room of Spawns, alters to defile, very maze like.
Azure agony: the Masterpiece! Again what is cool is the beginning you have no idea where to go and there are lots of different exits, but once you are on the path it's one long glorious fight through the level.
@@SandyofCthulhu so yes please level by level!
Speaking of samurais, I, a non-communist, did a video called "A conquistador refutes the Metatron on Samurais VS Spaniards" where I include a picture of my almost finished Age of Empires 2 HD map of roughly the western hemisphere (colossal and realistic; 4 months and I'm not finished with it), and show how this game influenced me to get closer to my roots to the point of buying conquistador armour which I used throughout Miami and its subrubia on a bike and one time on a horse). I wish longboats could serve as transport ships, but then galleons and other types would have to be able to do the same... which should have happened. And the five elephants but not more than five archers injustice is a problem that is the stuff of memes. Gracias de nuevo por sus aportaciones señor.
Man that armor must have been hot in the summer time. I understand that many of the Spanish soldiers switched to Aztec-style cotton armor after a few months in the New World. It makes sense.
@@SandyofCthulhu The helmet was good for shade. It's like a UFO sombrero but less ridiculous.
@@SandyofCthulhu I finished the map I exhibited in an upload. You can have it for free if you're not too busy. "COLOSSAL REALISTIC AMÉRICA & ÁFRICA MAP for Age of Empires 2 HD
"
Is there any reason why you didn't talk about Turks? Also will you be covering the recent DLC? I remember you talked about Poles been a cool civ and they added it!! :)
longboats would have made a great transport ship that shoots back
Clancy Brown just flat-out deserves a special spot in the excellent Character Actor Hall of Fame.
Tarkan, is also an early 70s turkish movie series - detailing the adventures of Tarkan the warrior.
ruclips.net/video/P80ibcICf4Y/видео.html
he is the one with the amulet in this scene.
we probably got the name from the same source. I will say that I absolutely love Tarkan's pet "wolf". Also the rubber octopus.
@@SandyofCthulhu Oh for sure :) I would have wanted to say they're so bad that they're good but, they're simply bad :D it is engrained in the collective conciousness within Turkey though, anyone who ever played age of kings the conquerors, was sure to be awestruck by that unit.
I don't know if you're a Tolkien fan or not, but: when I was a kid I always thought that the perfect game would be "Age of Empires: Silmarillion edition". I know it would be impossible because of rights issues but... could you share with us HOW WOULD YOU DO IT? Please, please, please?
Would it be though?
ruclips.net/video/V2eZ9nMk54U/видео.html
You mention Eisenstein "managing to survive Stalin", but there's a legend about Alexander Nevsky! As originally edited, the film contained one reel more than the version preserved today. This longer version was presented to Josef Stalin for preview (as was every Soviet film). When the reels were retrieved from the screening by the production company, one of them - depicting a riot in the city of Novgorod - was mysteriously missing. Though no explanation was provided, it was determined that as this short length of film had not received Stalin's explicit approval, it must be removed and destroyed immediately.
I'm just glad Stalin only suppressed the reel instead of suppressing the director.
Were you or people on the team not terrified of not giving Mesoamerican civs no Knights or other mounted units?!?
Especially considering the online meta was: As soon as you hit castle age, make knights and crush enemy's pathetic feudal army!
(Unless you're Teutons) :D
Of course the team was terrified. But once I had made the decision we put our heads down in making it happen.
@@SandyofCthulhu Well, the result was great! A completely unique way to play the new Meso-civs (and well-balanced too).
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
@@SandyofCthulhu funnily enough, AoE 2 DE did add a secret recruitable cavalry unit for the mesoamericans that you can only recruit from a converted stable, but the unit itself is not very viable because it has no upgrades outside of the melee ones from the blacksmith.
Kinda funny how Microsoft made you put the Koreans into the game because they wanted to outsell Blizzard and they own them now. lmao
Hey Sandy, i love your videos esp those talking about AOE, i was wondering if you could do a video on the choices you made for AOE 3 in particular when it comes to civs.
like we know AOE 3 shipped with 8 civs, but with 2 more planned (Italians and Swedes) but i wonder how come not 12 (so like Danes and Poles) or how come that Germany was chosen to be added considering they didn't really colonize the new world and how come the Germans work the way they are from a design perspective. like it is just an idea for a fun video, but i love the content regardless.
I am planning an Age 3 video. The Germans did colonize the new world though not as a nation (since they weren't one). There were Germans in Jamestown. But the real reason for the German civ is because Age sold super well in Germany.
hahaha frank frankestein hahaha
Now I want to see Sandy work on one of those mobile Mafia King type games, making awesome gangster units! Also, Mr. Krabs is Rawhide from Buckaroo Banzai?!
There's Doom people
Then there's AoE people
Then there's both
genre wars always mystified me.
@@SandyofCthulhu Plenty of enjoyment to be had in all genres!
Sandy.
How much i love you whe you talk about age of empires
ok
Looking at the age of empires 4 gameplay. They should recruit you and delay the game for a year.
They'd have to pay me a LOT to get me away from Petersen Games. Not saying they couldn't do it, but doubt they would.
I played the open stress test and i though the game was absolutely fine. Did you played it? and what was you issues with it? I think that If you ever played more than one game in this series and at minimum enjoyed them, i see no reason why you wouldnt also enjoy 4 at minimum. The only bad stuff was they trying to reinvent the wheel with the hotkeys but most people who like RTSs never uses hotkeys anyways.
@@SandyofCthulhu In my opinion it would be an investment brother!
No elite missionary? What about the Spanish inquisition. Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition.
by the time you'd want to make them in the mid-to-latter fourth age, gold is too precious to spend on monks.
Sandy I'm gonna be honest with you, I think the Viking Longboat doubling as a transport would have been outright too strong. Part of the spice of dropping units on enemy islands or coastlines is the lack of defense you have and the need to either field a navy to defend the landing, clear the landing point, or stealth your transports in, all-in style. If you could just deathblob a mass of longboats and then have the longboats start dropping off trebs on the land it would be an unbeatable strategy once you got the ball rolling on it
well than you must be proud of me for not doing it.
@@SandyofCthulhu hahaha indeed
Disagree. Woad Raider is an awesome name.
emmm......looks like you forgot the Turks.
u participate in making many games, but u dont know how to make a good one, lol