ALIENS - THEORY - Was Lt. Gorman Compromised All Along?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- #alien #alienromulus #aliens
James Cameron's Aliens from 1986. Was Lt. Scott Gorman compromised all along and did the company have dirt on him, forcing the lieutenant to aid Burke in the unforgiveable act of bringing specimens back at any cost? Personally, I prefer how the movie was intended but it is impossible for me to ignore Gorman's suspicious breadcrumbs he leaves behind in many of his scenes. Big thanks to subscriber @Gentleman_Jester for first giving me the idea for this theory, what a dude! ;)
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"Great! Wonderful! Uh, Apone. Look. We cant have any firing in there."
Great job on this video Dude. You even hit on a couple points i hadnt considered before.
@@Gentleman_Jester Glad to hear that and thanks again for giving me the idea as well as your blessing to steal it hehe! "You always were an asshole, Gorman".
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE Lmao!!
Hey. Just wanted to say thank you for the acknowledgment at the start of the video. That means allot to me. You're a stand-up, dude, Dude.
@@Gentleman_Jester you're welcome mate and thanks for sharing your thoughts initially, it was fun to write this one up. I'm not sure how good the sound quality was with my voice on this one as somebody said my sss's make his ears hurt with his ear phones so I played with the EQ settings but I think it made my voice muffled, I dunno 🤔. If it sounds ok to you then it isn't a worry for me.
@Gentleman_Jester I doubt that pulling their mags was a deliberate sabotage attempt. After all Burke or Gorman did not choose where the nest would be located and it was Ripley who pointed it out. I guess they could have pulled back to regroup and think of a better plan, like breaking out standard ball ammo to mitigate damage to the reactor or issuing more incinerators. But no one realized the scale of the danger, not even Ripley. In the Alien novel, Ripley encounters cocooned crew members that undergoing some kind of transformation and she deemed them too far gone to save.
Gorman was just a man. A scared and inexperienced man. But when his squad needed him the most he conquered his fear, gutted up and went out with bravery and pride like a marine.
Hoo-rah.
Exactly! He wasn't compromised by evil. He was just green. "How many drops you been on?" Replied like 20. Then says the tell all. "Simulated. This makes my 2nd real drop." I'll be 42 this month. 1st memory in the aliens universe is catching the marines as they started their "adventure " deeper in the base without Ripley. I've seen all versions an own the special editions w theater an extended edition. He's a Green officer. Nothing much deeper.
He only redeemed himself at the very end
And nobody probably knows.
Lt. Butterbar.
Well said
I think it’s more likely that the company pulled strings to have an inexperienced officer lead an understaffed unit
@@wildbill9490 most likely but it's fun to go down the rabbit hole 👌
Definitely going with Occam’s Razor here.
It would also give Burke/the Company a fall guy to pin the blame on if/when there were casualties when acquiring the specimen(s).
@@BehindThePringles very true
That’s a strong possibility, but I do think that the first Lieutenant might be a synthetic too either way it’s a bad situation
He was a fallguy. If the mission went sideways, they would've blamed him. He had no clue.
@@Spectrefox1313 a fair point.
I always thought that Gorman's inexperience was the reason why he was chosen to lead the mission. Burke did his homework when it came to the plan of acquiring a Xenomorph for the Company, but your theory does raise questions about Gorman that I never thought about.
@@israelvaldez26 I might have overcomplicated the issue but more things came to mind constantly when making the video, I felt like, why not? 😎
Couldn't agree more
Agree. Gorman was chosen I believe as you said because a veteran would never have been manipulated. Gorman found his courage in the heat of battle. But, the theory of Gorman being an initial part could be a part of it. He was green and ambitious, but soon realized he was in over his head.
@@michaelg.1786 it's possible 👍
Agreed
Lt. Gorman wasn't compromised. He wasn't even a bad leader. He was just inexperienced, and had little (but not zero) combat experience. Certainly the squad's original CO was replaced by Gorman because Burke thought he could better control the mission, but Gorman never demonstrates any loyalty to the company. He's just a relatively inexperienced professional who tries to rely on "by the numbers" (i.e. training and procedure) due to his lack of combat experience. The entire squad, not just Gorman, is overconfident about what they are about to face. Gorman actually treats the situation more seriously than the rank and file, who don't regard a "bug hunt" as being a real fight. Gorman is relying heavily on his experienced senior NCO Apone (as he should), and it's when Apone is taken out that Gorman is suddenly a ship without an anchor. Gorman's only real mistake is not communicating well with Apone when he orders flame units only, rifles slung. Apone starts to respond, but Gorman cuts him off, and does not elaborate on why they can't fire their weapons in that area.
It also seems like this squad may have had a reputation as screw-ups, as when they land, Apone says, "Alright, I want a nice clean dispersal this time," and we get a funny look from Vasquez. This makes me think there was an earlier incident where the squad did not disperse effectively, and maybe something bad happened. Maybe they got their previous Lieutenant killed? Who knows.
Later, when they catch Burke trying to infect Ripley and Newt, Gorman seems on board with whatever action the group wants to take, and does not try to protect or defend Burke.
@@station7thedoor interesting thoughts there, thanks. Ultimately I'm on your side and really my theory is simply an exercise if thoughts, a detour away from the intended narrative 👌
One thing to add is that once he realizes he’s the senior enlisted Marine Hicks takes over.
It shows that Apone probably made sure Hicks was ready to take over and this is something the USMC trains for. Training the Marine directly below you in the chain of command to take over in case you’re killed or wounded.
After the SHTF Hicks knows full well that Gorman being inexperienced screwed up but didn’t hold it against him. Hicks remains professional.
In one of the novel's we get to find out why they were sent. They weren't screw ups, in fact they were sent because they had one previous experience where they had to take down a threat from a different type of Alien life form ( nothing to do with the xenomorph) and were put on this mission due to the success. Although one point worth noting is some mistakes did occur and a few members of the squad were killed so Apone could have been referring to that.
@@Outcast-0033 I'd love to see a Colonial Marines series with bug hunts. Maybe the Alien TV series will explore some initial first encounters with hostile indigenous life forms.
Oh man you should write a book!! You’ve hit the nail on the head there with explaining the squads confidence in something they know nothing about, and especially with the bit about when he cuts off apone , just imagine if the outcome was that he listened to apone and let them have it there way , the whole film could change just over that one decision. the mind likes to wonder!!!
Nah, he was just an inexperienced Lieutenant. He did try to do his best to help them at the end, including going after Vasquez.
@@CrimsonSurvival it's still fun to ride these crazy theories though 😉
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE I tend to agree with Crimson, but this thought exercise was definitely interesting to consider!
I agree. I believe he was just inexperienced and not well trained and/or mentored as an officer. I don't believe he was compromised but was chosen to be a liability and in the long run compromise the mission.
That's one of the best redemption arcs I've ever seen
Well, at least it's one of my favorites😊
As a Naval officer who served with Marines, here's something to think about. 2nd Lt Gorman was a newbie officer, meaning he has been an officer less than 2 years. He doesnt know shit practically for the most part. He knows the rules, he's been through training but hands on experiences was virtually Zero!
He was the perfect stooge for manipulation by Burke. He was incompetent. This reminds me of the life expenctancy of officers in the Vietnam War(which this movie takes some inspiration from) a new officer's life expectancy on the ground in Vietnam could be measures in minutes.
Was he compromised? Yes and no. Yes because he was incompetent. No with respect of being bribed/force to do something against his will (IE they had something on him)
@@infojunkieworld damm, you must have seen some things and had some experiences in your line of work? Interesting insight from someone who knows about the military 👍. I think ultimately I will agree with you but it's still fun to make these theories and second guess everything hehe! Also, every Vietnam film I have seen pretty much confirms your assessment sadly. It must have been a horrific time to join the military...
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE I do love your theories and second guesses. I love the corporate manipulation angle. I've had a chance to quite of few people who went made it back from Vietnam and as the saying goes "They were never the same again". I've seen the thousand yard stare when they start talking about their experiences. I always tell them, "I'm glad you made it back".
@@infojunkieworld I feel like it was one of those unesscessary wars where the eager youth rushed in to do their country proud but in a manner speaking, perhaps the government were similar to the company in Aliens by not telling the whole truth etc. Not to offend any service people as I only mean in terms of that horrific war. Thank god I just talk about movies hehe!
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE Actually most were forced. Remember it wasnt until after the Vietnam War that the US Military became an all volunteer force. Most people who went to Vietnam were forced due to the draft. Yes it was a horrific war for many reasons. So many service members as well as civilians lost their lives for nothing. It was one of the worst wars in US history. There are still remnants to this day. I worked in Laos for a year and people are still getting maimed or killed from unexploded ordanance dropped from aircraft (aircraft had to dump their bombs before landing) in the country side. Every country acts like WY when it comes to wanting something done, they will use whatever means necessary, it's sad but true. It's always about resources.
@@infojunkieworld Well said. It scares me to death sometimes more than any horror movie plot that so many nations have nuclear weapons and that is a war we wouldn't recover from. Still, not much most of us can do about that other than show our support to the politicians who are more likely to do everything they can to avoid that, if you can believe them...
He wanted Gorman because he could be more easily controlled/manipulated compared to a seasoned officer; he'd not be able to smugle a specimen off of the moon with someone more experienced in command.
@@benleah4783 or does it go deeper than that? 😉😉😉
Vasquez give him a bit of respect at the end. 'You were always an asshole' 😂
@@s3any1977 chicks love an asshole, really 👍
I thought this looked and sounded 'dubbed'.
It also in my mind implied a past relationship between the two that no one was aware of.
They seem roughly the same age and it could have been some time ago. Just my thoughts....
@@LesterManley-s9n maybe he was inappropriate with her and the company used this to force into working for Burke? Sorry for feeding my theory once more haha!
He's one of my favorite characters in Aliens. His end with Vasquez is epic.
@@jeffreysmith694 he showed great bravery I agree 👍, more than some of the marines 😉
Gorman was inexperienced and incompetent but he was loyal and went out like a Marine. I respected that during the midpoint of the story with the survivors having retreated to operations and after Gorman awakened from being knocked out, he never tries to wrest command from Ripley and Hicks.
Gorman quietly acknowledges that he's way out of his depth, his head injury seriously compromised his ability to lead, and that both Ripley and Hicks are both better suited to lead the survivors given their dire situation. When a bad leader can realize his own faults and step aside so better leaders can step up, that shows humility and a willingness to change. I can admire that about Gorman.
@@arcturionblade1077 not to get too political but I would give Biden a little credit if he just bowed out like Gprman. kinda think if you're too mentally unfit to run for President you're also too mentally unfit to still be the President. it really doesn't matter who sit on the throne. the deep state has all the power and really runs the show anyway.
Gorman is a representation of the fresh-out-of-school Vietnam officers who had no idea what they were doing
Definitely elements of that for sure.
Gorman is one of my favourite characters in Aliens, I love his mini redemption arc, and wish we had seen more of him, but I don't think he was complicit in anything nefarious. It's a plausible theory but imo Gorman should just be taken at face value, he was an inexperienced officer that froze/panicked in a dire situation none of them, bar Ripley, really expected, as did some of the marines panic.
He probably was chosen as Burke could assert some authority over him, as opposed to an experienced officer that would put Burke in his place, but beyond that he was innocent. He doesn't try to regain control, instead takes a back seat knowing he screwed up and tries to earn back his marine's trust, an attempted apology to Vasquez followed by fighting alongside them, and ultimately redeeming himself by giving his life trying to save her. Great character, and a badass in the end.
@@Auto-Tomato you make some good points and are most likely correct. Obviously it's fun to think of other theories but they are just that 😉. Gorman actually maintained his calmness better than Hudson in many scenes I agree.
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE Yeah of course, it's a good vid and a fun theory, but I had to stick up for my man Gorman, and no-one panics quite like Hudson. 🤣
Always thought Lt. Gorman due to being inexperienced was a yes man for the company, but once he found out where his place actually was he actually stepped up.
One thing to keep in mind regarding Gorman’s ineptitude is that James Cameron wrongful portrayed the Marines based on the Vietnam Era US Army. He states this in the audio commentary of the movie.
Some of this was mitigated by the actor playing Sgt Apone who was a US Marine who served in Vietnam.
@@jamesdouglas6977 well you cannot deny that it gave the movie a fantastic vibe but in terms of military efficiency 🤔
It kinda works though because we get the impression they were caught flat footed by the Xenomorphs in the samexwaycwith Viet Cong
Very likely Gorman was not a willing accomplice, but instead a distraction to keep the marines focusing on their new CO, instead of focusing on the corpo civilian Berk.
There are a lot of people with a lot of guns going into a dangerous situation and trained not to trust civilians.
An experienced CO would first asked, "Given her experience, I can understand why Ripley is here. But, why is this corpo here? I do not want to risk a corpo getting killed on my watch and get my squad a black mark."
@@WilliamAGould hehe! I can see this point of view for sure.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity (Hanlon's razor)
Inexperienced for sure.
“How many drops is this for you, Lieutenant?”
“Thirty eight … simulated”
“How many *combat* drops?”
“Two …. including this one.”
The atmosphere of that film was spot on
@@ggggghdhkhfsgh hard to find the same in many modern films sadly..
Other than the sequence of the drop ship going down, which is a bit dated because of the green screen effects, it is completely believable, despite being made almost 40 years ago. My favourite film. Even the dialogues are not dated at all. Incredible film
@@nunocarvalhoguerra7190 people moan about the blue grain effects being dated but they add so much charm to those fly by sequences as well as the monitor feeds. Visually it is more stunning than the first and almost as haunting.
Absolutely, the atmosphere was on par with Herbie goes Bananas
I always figured that the company took advantage of Gorman‘s inexperience and lack of leadership without him knowing the grand plan. I feel that he redeemed himself when he went back for Vasquez when he knew it was probably going to be fatal.
@@user-jy6xx7kw5s absolutely, I just offer another narrative direction 👍
He was what the intelligence agencies refer to as a “patsy”, and they almost never know that they are.
@@jellymop a good point 👍
There were not countless xenomorphs. On the directors cut there is a sign with the population of Hadeley's Hope. If you assume all of the colonists absent Newt, were successfully implanted you get a precise number of xenos. It also is shown in the last part of the movie that there were only a handful of xenos remaining when Ripley raided the nest to recue Newt.
That brief exchange between Gorman and Ripley that ended with Ripley saying "forget it" always irked me a little bit. Was she showing comradeship by cutting him slack for panicking or was she usurping his authority and "girl-bossing" him?
@@michaelvandeginste3497 perhaps she silently acknowledged that he was useless and therefore my theory lacks grounds but the film offers so many clues and then leads you on a wild goose chase in theory land. It just becomes anyone's guess in the end 😁
Gorman was a Boot Looie. A Lieutenant fresh from Officer Candidate School. To get into OCS you have to have a college degree. It doesn't matter what you studied in, so it could be something like Underwater Basket Weaving. Boot Looie's are known for getting Enlisted people killed due to their inexperience in rational thought while under pressure and inability to listen to the more experienced Enlisted people he is in charge of. During Vietnam Fragging became a thing when Enlisted troops threw fragmentation grenades into the tents of sleeping officers. Also, it is common that Officers and Enlisted have separate areas for meals and sleeping. So Gorman not eating with the rest is normal. Also, Gorman was also the USCM's Liaison with Burke and Weyland Yutani, so private conversations between Burke and Gorman should be expected. Military units, in order to maintain security, often do not relay plans to the troops until necessary ie. enroute to the target.
@@Captain_Max you are probably right but I really should have given Gorman's backstory some extra flavour by adding under water basket weaving 🤣 brilliant!
So, here’s my take on it from a narrative standpoint: We know that Burke was aware of there being a potentially valuable alien species on LV426, but he also knows that Ripley might not be telling the truth, and is concerned that if he raises the alarm on this, The Company will lose their exclusivity on any claim. So, he sends out a survey team to check it out and that way they’ll know for sure if it’s the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, or just the imaginings of a crazy person.
Anyway, boom, they lose comms with the colony. Burke wasn’t expecting this, I’ll wager. My guess is he was hoping for a report back that either just confirmed or denied the existence of the derelict. Now he’s sweating because he could be responsible for the colony going down (which, apart from the human tragedy, would also not look to good in the eyes of his superiors). After all his name is on that order. It’s a matter of record that links him to whatever is happening at the colony. He fears the worst but doesn’t know. He needs to know because it’s the difference between him probably going to prison and him getting a pat on the back. And now that transmitter is down and eyes are looking to LV426 and anyone who’s involved with it. He says “shit!”, that’s right, he actually stops and says “shit!” And he realises if he wants to have any control over the outcome here, he needs to be in on whatever investigatory team is going out there.
I’d say he approaches his superiors enthusiastically with the suggestion he lead the investigation from the Company. They probably remind him that the military would ultimate jurisdiction on the matter. “Shit!” he says again. He knows he wouldn’t be able to pick the team; they’d have to send the first available vessel - The Sulaco is currently docked. But I’m betting he could put pressure on to have a young, inexperienced Lt. lead the team - one who wouldn’t necessarily be obeying his orders, but knew which side his toast was buttered. I don’t think there was any real ulterior motive for Gorman; he just wanted to impress his bosses.
Burke probably then got Ripley to come along partly as an advisor, partly as a patsy in case things went wrong, but mostly to keep an eye on her (mostly): She’s a chaotic piece on the board and he might not be able to control her, but he can keep her under observation.
So, that’s my take on it. Perhaps Burke might have incentivised Gorman, but he doesn’t seem motivated by greed; the only thing we see really motivating him is the mission time. He’s always checking his watch. Asking for things to go smoothly, but perhaps too quickly. Pushing ahead before an area is secured. It’s this need to always push forward, to meet, or beat, the mission time estimate which leads him to making his extremely poor tactical decision later. But the one time he doesn’t forge forward is when he realises his people are more important to him and he goes back for Vasquez.
Anyway, that’s how I see Burke’s motivation and I think Gorman was guilty of being an inexperienced leader, rather than a duplicitous one.
@@Dublonothing nicely put. It's very grounded in what you write and makes sense of course.
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE Thank you! Honestly, I’m amazed anyone read it all 😂
"Ripley i-"
"Forget it."
What was he gonna say to her?
Obviously an apology but was he gonna explain his situation before the mission?
It's not THAT important in the long run but still i fun thing to think about. It doesn't take away my love for this movie at all.
Hehe! Yes there are so many aspects about this film that leave you guessing and thinking over and over. Even if my theory has no value to many, it is a testament to the film for leading me down that rabbit hole ;)
My impression is they wanted someone impressionable if not controllable who wouldn't nuke the site unlike Hicks
Yeah, Hicks would have been more problematic to leadership in this case for sure.
The Sgt Major was a major loss too, if he didn't get taken out straight away they may have held up better
Yes, he was an absolute boon to that mix matched group of lost souls... I do often wonder how tactics would have played out if more of them survived after the rescue mission.
I always saw Gorman as a patsy, Burke would have sought out a yes man - to fill the need for a military officer, but not one who would get in the way of his plans so he selected Gorman. Gorman clearly was surprised by his promotion, but as in these cases he would have thought if he had been selected then it's not that hard of a mission, he probably was told it was a simple bug hunt where the weapons they had would easily complete the mission and he would get fairly low risk experience. Obviously this was never the case, Burke likely expected Gorman to be taken out by the aliens, or the marines moving him into a position of more power - as he tried before Ripley pointed out Hicks was the senior officer now. Gorman was just a tool in the Burkes plan, after his head injury I think he acknowledged this and a knowledges his own complete lack of experience and competence for the mission as from that point onwards he accepts orders from both Ripley, Hicks and other marines - finally he does redeem himself. He goes back for Vasquez and doesn't leave her - choosing to go out as he does. I think he was just naive and only realised this when it was too late. But from the halfway point he did try his best to help with Ripleys plans of escape and destroying the aliens.
@@55tranquility yes, the reality of the simple observations from the film is more likely but I definitely agree with you that his ending was him truly wanted to help 👌
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDEI also wonder if Burke and Gorman knew about special order 237 and the companies previous attempt to obtain a specimen, did Burke have any knowledge of this mission from the point of view of Weyland Yutani ie that Ash was put on board and his primary objective was to get a specimen, outside of what Ripley had told him.
I was at war with the U.S Army. There was a butter bar there with us who truly was more incompetent than Gorman. 2LT Nameless was the joke of our battalion.
@@earlybird3668 worse than Gorman? 🤣. Bet you wished he went out like Gorman did, huh? 😉
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE No. wished for no one to go "out" during war time. Sorry. My point is that there are straight up incompetent officers, that have not had enough experience yet. A lot of sharp professionals also. When war actions happen people sometimes crumble. Your suggestion that Gorman was sabotaging the platoon lacks any evidence. We are talking about James Cameron, who if someone is a traitor, Cameron reveals it. We don't see who knocked over the jars holding chest bursters, we do see Burke nervously clicking off the Med Lab's security camera though. In Alien and Aliens both films reveal the exact meddle, and make up of every single character.
No. He was incompetent. Quit trying to add shit. Burke was the bad guy. Gorman had a great redemption arc, and your stupid take diminishes that arc.
build a campfire, sing a couple of songs, trust me, you'll feel better ;)
William hope has said himself that he thinks he character was chosen for the mission because of his inexperience.
@@d.a.b8756 yep. The film is fun to explore new ideas though, even if they are fact 👌
I feel like Lt Goreman was supposed to represent incompetent military leadership in the Vietnam War given all the symbolism in the movie
100% but it's fun to imagine other scenarios 😉
That is what is so good about this movie - the characters are so shady that they leave room for all kind of Interpretation.
@@yesyesyesyes1600 exactly buddy. I wasn't too hard to conjure up these thoughts from just watching his scenes 😉
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE Good job 😊👍
I'm a little late to the conversation but I don't think Gorman was in on it. The #1 reason: consider someone we haven't discussed much yet: Apone. As incompetent as Gorman was (due to his inexperience mainly), Apone was the stark opposite.
As the video points out, Burke hand-picked Gorman and Ripley. It wouldn't be surprising if he'd also picked Apone and his squad too. These guys aren't green- even Hudson's light-hearted insubordination clearly demonstrates this (he's not intimidated by rank, doesn't even seem to be scared of Apone to his own detriment lol).
Isn't this the ideal scenario for Burke? An easy to manipulate commander to ensure the success of his own secret mission, with an experienced, battle-proven squad to ensure survival.
I think one interesting thing to point out is that Burke did choose to go on the mission himself, not sending an underling or proxy. He must have believed he'd be successful with the people he'd selected.
@@jmazuryk Apone certainly adds some normality to any preconceived ideas most people would have about a squad of marines. It's difficult to know for sure what exactly was Burke's game plan but at least this allows for some fun theories hehe!
I think that Burke would have dropped him in it when they were threatening to waste him if he knew.
@@zarelli7831 possibly. It's hard to make a strong theory with so many counters haha! He was such a great character to go down the rabbit hole with however 😁
2:19 What the hell is even that!😂😂😂😂
An indescribable emotion ;)
I don't know what the conversation was about between Burk, and Gormon, but when he address Ripley, you can see the man is riddled with guilt, and shame. He was traumatized. I'm inclined to believe that if Burk attempted to manipulate him, in any way, I think Gormon would have went apeshit in him. I think what really happened, because of the expression on Burk's face, Ripley's presence probably prevented him from even attempting to coerce Gormon. In other words, Burk was paranoid of being caught. At that point, if Gormon was to be coerced, his catastrophic decisions would be eating at him, and he might would have actually killed Burk for trying. Gormon was completely beside himself. He was legit ashamed.
@@SonsOfLore very insightful, I can appreciate that. I'm more inclined to agree with you but of course this theory, which took me some time, is just meant as an alternative viewpoint and something else to consider 😉👍
This was absolutely all on Burke.... Gorman was just a FNG/JAFO, OBVIOUSLY handpicked by Burke for the exact reason that Gorman was still wet behind the ears. Burke was in charge of that entire operation and Gorman being a good soldier is going to follow orders... Until shit hit the fan. Overall Gorman was a good guy even before the mission, we see that when he visits Ripley at the space station.
You can also see where Ridley Scott was going when he designed Gorman this way. Normally the military would be controlled by politicians from I would assume the US 🤔😜 BUT since we're in the universe in which the Wayland Yutani corporation actually controls the military, at least in space. So by Burke asking for, as I would imagine, security for his "rescue mission" WITHOUT REVEALING THE ALIEN PRESENCE to both the corporation and the military... In the movie it's made obvious that the corporation doesn't believe her story, ONLY BURKE DOES BECAUSE HE SEES MONEY. We never got a scene but I believe Burke had a conversation with Gorman after meeting Ripley and probably downplayed her story... Either that or he was just extremely overconfident despite his lack of combat experience.
@@mcapps1 no arguments from me buddy. All I'm doing is offering up some extended thoughts into the realm of conspiracy 😉
Did this dude say Marine Corpse??? Yikes you need to Google that ASAP
@@joesmith201212 I'd rather not 😧
@ENTERTAINtheDUDE yeah that's my sentiment too when I tried to watch your video... rather not
Interesting argument as I always just thought that Gorman was green and that was why Burke choose him. First as seasoned officer may ask questions and put the safety of their soldiers and civilians over the company's agenda. Second an inexperienced officer would be more likely to take on the position in the hopes that it would be an easy assignment and lead to better ones, plus they would defer to Burke's authority.
@@jasonworlock5113 yeah I think the film has a clear representation of the situation but these theories are great for reading between the lines 😉👍
I think Burke acted alone in putting the face huggers in the lab. I don’t think Gorman would have participated.
@@Nepenthe6 perhaps 👍
Lt Gorman possesses almost every trait that makes him a terrible leader. He's the type of officer that wouldn't have lasted long in Vietnam before being greeted in his tent by a rolling grenade with its pin pulled.
One detail that just stuck out to me was this: Upon discovering the location of the transponders of colonists, there wasn't any talk of using unmanned vehicles equipped with sensors to go in the recon the area to ascertain the actual condition of the colonists. I am sure they would have existed in the Alien movie universe and be included with a loadout for a marine detachment. The fact that the platoon already encountered evidence of the Xenomorphs and the final stand of the colonists suggests they should have know of the danger they were walking into. And Gorman as a "by the book" officer should have known to deploy a drone to reconnoiter the area, especially considering the signals were all in one area and stationary. He should have known to consult with Ripley about this considering that she was on the mission to fill the role as an advisor.
I don't think it was a a part of the conspiracy to use someone like Gorman. Rather Gorman was like that because the plot demanded it. No competent officer would have executed the mission that way Gorman did. A well executed mission could have achieved the company's aims.
@@dmac7128 Well said. If only they had some of those Prometheus pups that could scan entire structures in minutes 😉😉. I love Aliens because for a sci fi film, it does feel very much back to the basics but you make great points regarding him completely ignoring standard common sense issues involving the rescue mission. I think this is why I found it so easy to fall down the conspiracy rabbit hole on this one 😆
This is just a case of technology marching on. At the time drones for such a use where not even a twinkle in some engineer eye. They where trying to keep technology looking relatively realistic in what the public was familiar with.
I just found this video. I've had similar thoughts about this for well over a decade. Glad I'm not the only one. Great work!
@@harleymitchell2940 thanks buddy. Yeah it's worth delving into even if most won't accept it. There are some subtle nuances in the film that gives rise to conspiracy thoughts 🤔
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE I think you're right on the money.
From a writer perspective I think it’s possible that Gorman’s inexperience act as a kind of mislead for the audience. Burke is the obvious suspect for a rotten egg amongst the team. But by having the fresh 2Lt you might start to second guess… Is he acting. You see this very clearly in Bishop, we are supposed to mistrust him like Ripley does…
Yeah, there is a simplicity to it all but then there are different angles depending on perspectives. Probably my theory has no weight to it but it was fun to unravel something that in another dimension might have taken place ;)
Going off of the principle of Hanlon's razor, I doubt that Gorman was the one compromised.
I would think that W-Y had connections to Marine higher-ups who, in turn, assigned Gorman to Burke, knowing that he was Green (Capital G green), and wanted to prove himself. That, and a lot of hubris on the part of Marine commanders as to the ease of dealing with whatever problem. No sense in thinking that Burke was an open book with regards to what the xenos were understood to be. So, he almost certainly played up their value, and downplayed their supposed danger.
It's logical and was understandably intended by Cameron I bet. These films give us so much to imagine, however ;)
Funny you bring this up... In the ALIEN novel "River of Pain" which portrays the events at the colony on LV-426, every now and again the narration breaks from the colonists and their struggles to visit places like Gateway Station, and Burke DOES try to get Gorman on his side; but as best as I can remember Gorman shoots Burke down hard and says something to the effect of "If you want something done on this mission, you're gonna have to come along and do it yourself." Best as I can tell this novel is canon, if that's anything to go by then Gorman wasn't compromised. An inexperienced officer to be sure, perhaps a little bit incompetent, but certainly not compromised.
Still an interesting bit of theory-crafting though.
Thanks for the appreciation ;) I've had so many requests to listen/read those novels that I am going to do so over the next few weeks before bed. They sound great but will probably lead me down further rabbit holes haha! That's how my mind works...
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE If you go the audio-book route, "River of Pain" is available as an audio-book and an audio-*drama*; as in instead of just narrating, you get a movie in audio-format. Found it on YT a while back and while not perfect (Some of the voice-acting for characters wasn't exactly top-notch but this seemed to be an issue more with side-characters.) it was very fun to listen to.
@@refurbishedtechpriest9076 thanks for the info. I'll check it out 👍
I think before he regained consciousness Burke was in the medical room thinking of letting the face hugger implant Gorman, however he came to. Gorman was very inept, he only had simulated drops and one prior combat drop so he wasn't an experienced officer and was probably promised a quick promotion if he followed Burke's instructions and things went well.
@@glenmassey3746 burke using a face huggers on Gorman is a nice addition to this theory, thx 👍
I have watched Aliens so many times I never even thought about this. It'd be interesting to hear what William Hope himself thinks.
@@sulijoo haha! Yeah because sometimes the actors have their own insights and backstory of course. I'll try to reach out 😉
Exactamundo. Just like everyone who saw this great film, I've always thought Gorman was just an incompetent fall guy for Wetland Yutani, but this take actually makes Gorman more interesting and I supposed more scary in a maccavillian kind of way . As a card carrying Chaos theorist I love this post 😃.
Hope missed out on the basic 'soldier ' training the other actors went through to get into character and I think this was not deliberate (I think), it worked wonders with the dynamic on screen.
@@nerag7459 same as Michael Biehn I believe. But then Michael was insane in The Terminator so he didn't need it 😉
Burke kept his cool throughout tho in the face of all the violence unfoldung Even helping put out a fire on the APC. He was way less stressed than Gorman.
@@HermitagePrepper he was clever, calm and arrogant 😉
I think Gormen was taken advantaged of by Burke more than anything. He’s a fresh butter bar, probably told by his superiors to cater to WY like a good boy.
Gormen’s a really good guy and smart guy too. Once he realized he was in over his head, he basically stepped aside and let Ripley and Hicks run the show. Then he even went back to save Vasquez. I think if he survived, Gorman would have made a fine officer after that experience.
His flaw was his inexperience with command. But there is a leader inside him, it tragically was cut short however.
@@DaddyHensei that's a fair assessment 👍
When a business like Weylan-Yutani is asking for assistance, it’s easier for them to say, “hey, we’ll cover the cost of loss as long as we can hand pick the command staff.” This in essence gives the military plausible deniability. It also gives Yutani the ability to pick someone inexperienced which was HAMMERED on during the drop sequence when Lt. Gorman made it clear he’s had no real combat drop experience. That scenario is MUCH simpler than trying to find and maintain control of a compromised individual. There is a razor similar to Occam’s razor. It says “never ascribe to malice what is more easily explained by stupidity.” In this case I would assert inexperience is interchangeable with stupidity.
On an unrelated topic, does anyone feel there was some history between Gorman and Vasquez? In the scene where Gorman goes back for Vasquez, just before the grenade goes off she says “You always were an @$$hole Gorman.” Is it me or does that seem to imply that she knows him from somewhere else?
@@MrUndoe if so, then she kept it very hidden, especially in the drop when she looked as surprised as everyone to find out he had only one other combat drop. But then again, this film offers so many alternative narratives that I'd be on board with that 👍
Ionis believe Gorman was chosen because they knew they could control him and that at the end of the day they would be able to tell him how things are going to be and he would go along with it.
Gorman wasn’t in on Burke’s plan but they definitely chose him to lead the mission so that Burke could have a fall guy to take the blame for anything that went wrong because Burke did plan to sabotage the mission. Gorman was gonna suffer the same fate that Ripley did in the beginning of the film, now this really isn’t explored in the film if Burke or the company handpicked him based on his IQ and experience, at least there’s no scenes that explore this, but you do find out that Gorman is not the brightest character throughout his development and it would make sense for him to be the person to be set up to fail , even the Marines are agitated that he’s their lieutenant, and they don’t even know who he is.
@@dukefritter6536 no arguments from me but it was fun to explore a different narrative 😜
With WY's government influence, its possible they wanted an inexperienced platoon commander they could influence. In the book River of Pain, Burke mentions that the company wanted to use Bishop and alter his programming, but Gorman refused to allow it because the Marines depended on Bishop in the support role. When that doesn't work out, Burke indicates he wants Gorman to act in interest of the company, which Gorman refuses citing he will be leading a combat team. At that point, Burke decides to go along. River of Pain does give better insight into the Colonial Marines duties and the nature of their personal relationships with WY. I don't think Gorman was acting in company interests. I think he was simply inexperienced and thrown up against a determined enemy. I have read the Allen Dean Foster novelization of Aliens, but don't remember much about it, these days. I really should read it again as I have on Kindle.
@@agenttexx Thanks for the insights. I should also read some of these books and also the audio book of Out of the Shadows I think it's called. Part of me, however, just likes the main canon and to imagine the rest 😁
Some may claim Gorman was a dupe chosen for inexperience. However, a lieutenant would be in charge of that size of unit. Although it is possible to have had a more seasoned Lt, it is more likely he would be fairly junior. Remember the Vietnam War is still fresh in the minds of the writers. A conflict where junior officers would quickly be killed on the battlefield before they could gain more experience. He also comes off like an academy guy, who more often keep themselves separate from mere enlisted. Choosing him may as likely have been because the military did not take the mission seriously, an opportunity to give the green Lt a little experience.
@@commonman4413 it's possible but I cannot help but feel that Weyland new were too in the ball when it came to knowledge of this species and the importance of this site.
Having read the novels (River of Pain in particular) that shows some scenes from Burke's POV, it's pretty clear that while Gorman was not compromised, the Colonial Marines as an institution are. Burke wanted Gorman to guide the mission in Company interests. Gorman refused. Burke wanted to use Bishop to covertly guide Ripley in ways that fit company interests. Gorman replied "He is not programmed for espionage. If you want any influence on this mission, you're going to have to come yourself." in a tone that was very "fuck you".
Earlier on Hadley's hope, The Company pulled strings to have their garrison commander Ordered by his superiors to give the company what it wanted, irrespective the regulations.
Gorman wasn't corrupt, he was just green.
@@comradetortoise that's fair enough, good insight 👍
Some fun facts:
Gorman's first name is listed either as 'William' or 'Scott' in official products depending on the source. My guess is that 'Scott' was the characters name in script, then it was changed to 'William' after the actors first name, something which is the case with many of the characters.
Hes described as 'The New L.T.' during the dining scene, but Vasquez says 'You always were an asshole' before their big finalè. It's a strange use of phrasing if they really had met just at the start of this mission, and suggests they may have a more established relationship than is shown.
His role is similar to Ash's in the first film, a new addition mandatorily introduced to an established crew, someone clearly shoe-horned in to serve the company line. While Ash is willfully antagonistic, Gorman seems more simply....gormless. Ash seems to be on the crew's side and is revealed to be an antagonist, while Gorman is a nuisance and liability who ultimately reveals himself to have some heroic qualities. 1-0 Humans vs Androids.
I personally don't feel he was compromised, I feel he was more being enticed with a big career bump for undertaking this mission. He was clearly incompetent, likely having not earned a bright future for his career due to lack of ability, so would immediately take any unexpected opportunity to have an 'easy win'. He would be so grateful, he would not ask any questions.
It seems unlikely to me that someone with some ability in manipulation and subterfuge would entrust any important actions to this guy, so it feels he is simply a patsy, expected to be a mannequin for Burke, rather than co-conspirator.
Nice video, I like the style! Will keep an eye out for more videos.
I've done one video on Aliens, if you wanna check it out. It was inspired by considering who was actually more of a hinderence or help: Burke or Gorman?
ruclips.net/video/EPEIq_VLttM/видео.htmlfeature=shared
@@RealScotticus ultimately you're probably right but thanks for the insights and thoughts on the topic, was a fun read. I'll definitely check out your vid and channel tonight buddy. It'll be interesting to see other perspectives on the films.
@ENTERTAINtheDUDE It's all still open to interpretation, so...who knows exactly what's going through the panicky, trumped-up mind of Scott/William Gorman. It's fantastic that there's this modestly budgeted action sci-fi movie from all those decades ago, and stuff can STILL be discussed and interpreted.
I hope you enjoy the video I made, it was really just for fun, but deciding how to rank every major character's contribution to success in the film was something that proved actually less intuitive than it may have seemed at first!
I'll be subscribing, the topics and style of presentation you have are exactly what appeals to me, so I look forward to checking out more videos!
One thing is for sure, buying a Xenomorph is more expensive than buying a cat...
@@doric_historic shorter life span as well ❤️🩹
His tatics of falling back by squads, using the flamethrowers to suppress the xenomorphs was correct. It's just too bad the radio was cut off.
@@badism8369 There was little he could do there. With Comms down I believe Alone should have improvised and not been so hell bent on re-establishing Comms.
@ENTERTAINtheDUDE True, I'm just saying tatics wise, what he was trying to relay to Apone was very sound and could have resulted preserving more of the squad. I do agree Apone should have taken charge almost immediately, but remember he wasn't an officer and not receiving a field commission at his age implys, to me anyway, that he either didn't want one or didn't deserve one.
People assume he was so.e kind of bad ass and I always wondered why...becuae he smokes cigars? 🤣
He didn't die well.
@@badism8369 At least he was a badass in real life. I know he served and received some awards.
@ENTERTAINtheDUDE Yeah. Tragically he died penniless and in obscurity. NECA couldn't even locate him to buy his likeness for their Aliens action figures
I think they just chucked a guy in there who had no business there to use as a patsy or fall guy if need be and someone they knew wouldnt cause waves or ask too many questions and would probably end up unalive and out of the way anyways.. I don't think he had knowledge of the company plans or was going along with some illegal garbage. They needed a daft goof and he was their man to set up for failure..
@@souless08 that pretty much is the way the film intended right 👍
Gorman was just an inexperienced Officer.
To be fair as theories go, Burke could have been driven by the Queens 'hive mind', he had the Specimens he needed, he could have made his move in the Tank and left with Bishop and Gorman, ending Ripley and Newt, taking the specimens. Maybe the Queen was driving Burke and the Team to stay and search for the Hive for more Hosts to impregnate?
I always thought it kind of comical that Ripley makes the excuse "You can't help Them!" when Apone and Co are taken whist a squad of soldiers stand there, but when Newt is taken she is "Still alive!" and goes in alone.
@@MagicE13 hehe! Yeah Ripley has her priorities I guess right? 🤣 What do you mean when you say that the queen was driving burke to do things? Do you mean Burke was fascinated by her or something else. I'm interested in what you say is all 🤔
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE In Alien: Earth War, the Queen and Queen Mother are depicted as having a 'Silent Scream' (Telepathy to control the Hive) they are able to invade peoples dreams which induce mass nightmares on Earth, even if you have never seen the Alien you will feel an uneasy terror lurking behind you (something like that). Eventually people worship the Aliens creating a cult that seek out hosts for the Aliens so that they can be 'reborn as perfect'.
The Hive Mind also comes into play in Alien Resurrection when Ripley can 'Feel' the Queens Pain.
I was theorising that maybe Burke's weak willpower made him very susceptible to this Hive Mind Telepathy and it was directing his actions to some degree.
Listen to - Aliens: Sea Of Sorrow - the Audio Drama.
I see your point. But when the marines were taken, the whole hive was there at the power plant. It was daytime. When Ripley went in after Newt, the hive was almost empty as all the Drones had left to attack the compoundat night. It can explain the time differences.
Hard Disagree. Gorman is inexperienced, and this is the only real flaw he has. His orders are to find out the status of the colony and (probably) rescue any survivors. He acts on these orders throughout the initial part of the movie. He has no reason to believe Burke is a threat to his team initially, and when he does he's perfectly happy to pull a gun on him. Heck, if you compare his (conscious) moments to Pvt. Hudson, Lt. Gorman is actually a bit less panicky.
@@redwolf603 Oh yeah but these theories are just to explore alternatives away from canon 👍
Clearly Gorman was pretty green when put in charge of the unit, and the rest of them had been working together for some time. So, what happened to their previous CO? Being replaced last minute by Gorman was already a red flag that things were going to go sideways. He didn't need to be 'compromised' or totally corrupt to get manipulated by the company and Burke as much as lacking the confidence an experienced combat officer would have had to push back. But this video does show he had motive and opportunity. It would have been curious to hear Cameron, Glier and Hill's thoughts on this.
They probably dismiss my theory as rubbish hahaha but I'm sure they would understand that the movie is so vague in areas that it breeds these sorts of conspiracies.
Anyone else believe that it was killing the two facehuggers that caused the immediate attack on medlab?
@@josepeyote that's a very good point and worthy of a theory video. It's the same reason I'm scared of killing a big wasp during a BBQ 🤣🤣🤣
"Burke, back me up here. We need her to go, reassure her in any way. We need her to go, at least to have her with us. Not only that, but we can lose her on mission.
You'll lead are team for the company, bring back this new product, and we will clear all charges!"
@@carljhirst hehe! I was going to make a joke in the video that he had sexual charges against him because he merely glanced at a high ranking female officer incorrectly. It is the future after all and if our current time has anything to do with it then social politics must be a f***** nightmare in the future haha!
So Gorman was either a machiavellian puppetmaster playing the fool while knowingly leading his expendable marines to their intentional deaths in order to climb the ladder until his heart grows three sizes right at the end OR he is a fallible young and inexperienced fresh officer unprepared for actual combat and has to grow up quickly and become a hero before the end.
Honestly I don't buy it. Pretty sure Gorman was exactly what he appeared to be.
There's a saying:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." and that saying rings true here.
Most likely but a film like Aliens has so many nuances to it I find it fun to imagine alternatives 👍
The first axiom of military operations is you never divide 'command'. The company & military no matter what it's relationship btwn each other in this operation screwed the pooch before the mission even started.
@@fluffy1931 it was a shambles, we can all agree on that 🤣
Every one knows about the vietnam themes. Gorman is your classic westpointer. officer with zero XP getting troops killed.
Or was he? 😲
Having been in the Marine Corps myself, I've always thought Gorman was a prime example of someone whose training didn't "stick" and become a part of them, which is the aim. Instead of falling back on his training under duress, he fell back on the hesitancy and weaknesses that were never truly bred out of him. You can see very clear indications of his deeply-rooted insecurities, resulting in abject incompetence, in his behavior earlier in the film.
@@frank3508 always interesting to hear a perspective from people that have actually served and experienced what these films try to depict. I hadn't really thought of it like you described when you say that the correct training would essentially override those previously developed insecurities etc. Therefore, more evidence that Gorman never completed or did not fully experience full training like his subordinates did. Thanks. I guess the marines in the film got away with more screwing around than would be allowed in reality right? 😉
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE Oh absolutely. Hudson in reality would at the very least have been brought up on gross insubordination charges. Plus the fact that Gorman, a full lieutenant, left Hudson's disciplining solely up to the command sergeant, Apone, shows that he was in fact intimidated by Hudson's disdain and lacked the inner confidence to aggressively handle and shut the lid on his attitude. Hudson and the others could of course sense this and reacted to it accordingly in their further dealings with him. Gorman lost the psychological battle with his subordinates, failing utterly to clearly and unequivocally establish his dominance, and by doing so completely lost their respect. Which brings me back to my original point, that in my opinion he in fact obviously did complete his training, even being promoted to lieutenant, but did so in a bureaucratic, pencil-pushing, "going through the motions" kind of way, without ever really being truly tested - that, plus his weak nonconfrontational nature, made him ill-suited to lead soldiers into battle and very strongly indicates, as l said, that his training just didn't "stick."
@@frank3508 great analysis mate. I guess the film has more in common with military and societal issues than many people know.
@@ENTERTAINtheDUDE It really does - and the fact that it takes place well into the future - 2179 to be exact - drives home the point all the more, that basic human nature tends to to remain constant and relatively unchanged.
Gorman was like Dillion in Predator. Pushin too many pencils... but picked up a few bad habits from his new friends and gave the ultimate sacrifice.
@@chavang3699 hehe! Maybe Ripley can be Dutch? 🤔😉
Over thinking it. Gorman was a fresh officer with ambitions of rising higher. In fact he may have agreed to the mission to get the promotion to officer is probably why he was initially unwilling to do more than support Burke. Guy knew Burke held his career in his hands. Doesn't take much more leverage than that. Especially in the kind of future we are seeing where likely life had little value if you weren't one of the top brass. Everything about Gorman lines up with him being someone who just graduated out of whatever officer school there is and this may be his first real mission he gets to lead. Just a kid, really. Easy prey for a weasel like Burke.
@@jacobfreeman5444 👍
There is also a plot hole witch can be explained with Gorman helping Burke. The tanks that hold the facehuggers are huge and full off water. So it has a large weight. How could Burke bring both tanks into the infirmary alone without waking up Ripley and Newt? Bringing them from the lab to the room they were sleeping takes time and a lot off muscle work, and Burke doesn't look too buffed to do the job alone without anyone noticing it! Even opening the door or a faulty movement could wake up anyone sleeping in there. You can't do all off this in complete silence! Especially all by yourself!
So most likely Burke didn't carry them alone but with the help of Gorman? Or Bishop (mostly unlikely it would have undermined the character)?
@@Dragonman1OOO I tried to suggest that they worked together on that but sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I can't remember exactly what I said at that point but I assumed they both carried them in and opened the lid, poured and the water drained away. The huggers would need a few moments to recover from the stasis effect but it was still a gamble haha!
Nonsense, you can see the shock and disgust on Gorman's face when Ripley reveals Burke's plan. He may be a complete goose but he is honorable albeit naive.
@@tibitzu365 maybe 😉
Ok so my only real question in all of this is why is every aliens original movie not named after the ship but all the newer ones are all the name of there ship
@@jbstepchild probably something that Ridley and the studio decided, some new trend as they had already used the word Alien twice haha!
Ripley make a huge mistake when she confronted Burke alone. She should have told everyone what she found out about Burke and had him handcuffed and restrained.
Im fact it would have been best to hold a trial right there and record his confession and then execute him where they were because it was much too dangerous to transport him back to Earth with the possibility that he could wake up while the others were sleeping and sabotage their sleeping pods.
What did Ripley think Burke was going to do after she confronted him? Nothing?
She absolutely should have told everyone what she knew and they could have all confronted him together.
@@beringstraitrailway A very good point. I often wondered why she kept this quite as well. The face huggers confrontation could have been avoided entirely.
Gorman was a patsy, probably a mediocre cadet, likely from an influential family who helped his career, probably ambitious without enough ability to back it up. Also likely to have been a pain in the ass and rule lawyer to his superiors, so only natural when Weyland first brought up the mission and requested a team, the officer in charge would have picked a good team, then put Gorman in charge so he would screw it up so bad they would have a reason to get rid of him. Problem was, he lost control of the situation resulting in the death of every marine and making himself the scapegoat from the fallout of the destruction of the complex and loss of military assets.
The whole squad of marines and Ripley were unknowingly sacrificial lambs, Ripley was a lose end and knew to much thanks to ash revealing the company knew of the craft and its contents, and the marines were meant to be hosts for the alien, and give the weapons bio division access to live xenos. So yeah Gorman was picked due his inexperience and who could be blamed for the squad being killed. Burkes plan nearly worked but Ripley foiled him by saving the remaining marines.
It certainly does make you wonder if Ripley was persuaded to go just to die with the marines.
He was just young and inexperienced. A typical archetype from Vietnam War movies. The butterbar Lt.
@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan 👍
The biggest thing for me was him name dropping the Xenomorph, kinda hinted that rather than being a kind of mysterious alien as per Ripleys account but an already defined phenomenon
Yeah, I agree.. I'm also wondering speculation of the off-camera origins of them naming it... which seems like forced exposition. They did not experience the alien to name it and act like they know all about it
Love this video. Great theory to ponder. Adds even more depth to a fantastic story.
@@benh9688 many thanks pal, glad it has brought something to some folks 👍
Honestly don't see a Marine would knowingly risk there unit.
How ever there is a chance
I personally think he was Under qualified and not ready for this mission
Fair point 😁
Compromised ? No, this is how things always are working in the Forces
@@thefreedomguyuk this is a scary fact 😧
What would be the optimal mission? In > out, rescue colonists, retrieve samples, no casualties.
@@chrisowen2763 I also wonder if Burke assumed that Ripley would be more pursuasive when it came to bringing samples back if he thought they could save more lives. Unfortunately, they only found Newt and the rescue mission has trapped them there for 18 hours...
I don’t think Gorman was bright enough or had enough backbone to conspire with anyone. lol.
@@aerynstormcrow maybe hehe! 🤣
Gorman is too small-fry to be worth compromising. Burke would have been under strict corporate confidentiality agreements not to reveal WY's plans for the specimen, outside of very strict circumstances.
The way Gorman seems subordinate to Burke, imo, represents the way the company has subordinated the colonial marines as a whole - not that Gorman himself is corrupt.
@@philipsalama8083 good point and very logical 👍
when burke told him he had his chance when ripley drove the apc. that told you he was on company books
@@derrickdavies9626 I forgot about that comment 😉
Lt, Gorman was hand picked due to him being inexperienced and had a history of being a 'yes' man. He also showed favorability towards Weyland Yutani, which was exploited when approached by Burke and installed. Also he showed promise in his planning and execution when it came to theoretical missions, and he was deemed appropriate selection for the highest probability or success without asking too many questions. I think, i read somewhere that during the homework phase in selecting a person .. Burke expressed interest in working in Weyland Yutani when his contracted service obligation was over..
As long as we don't get a Burke origin story as I like the guessing factor ;)
LT. Gorman reminds me of my company XO back when i was stationed at Ford hood back in 2015. Lets call him LT. Calliou (our nickname for him). The man was our OIC (Officer In Charge) during a SIMULATED convoy exercise. He was also dangerously incompetent.The simulation went good all until he deviated from the planned road map and took wrong turns, insisting they were "shortcuts", against the advice of the senior NCO in the convoy, a SFC (Seargent First Class). Eventually, we stopped on a long stretch of street, surrounded by locals. The locals began throwing rocks at us. We asked him, "sir what do we do?". He panicked, ordered us to drive through them instead of around them, which resulted in us running some of them over by accident. Then they started attacking, our truck gunner shouted "f@#$ these guys!" and opened fire, then everybody started shooting. He was shouting all up and down, trying to give orders, etc. The senior NCO in the convoy assumed command and got us out of there. After the simulation ended, he got his butt chewed by the NCO, made the man cry. His qualifications for being an officer? He passed the officer academy, and got in initially due to his bachelors degree....in...art history.
Moral of the story, listen to the old salty NCO whos got decades more experience as opposed to the brand new shiny Lieutenant.
@@jedifreak480 that's quite a story my friend. An Art degree 🤣🤣🤣 I wish I'd added that to my vid now, it would have been the perfect comic relief. I got confused with your story when you said a simulated convoy exercise but then spoke of people getting run over and attacking back! Did it really go that bad? 😧
@ENTERTAINtheDUDE yes sir. The simulation was a massive computer screen in front of three army vehicles, all with working buttons and such but no wheels. It was actually pretty neat.
But yes there were computer simulated local people walking around and acting different based on the scenario. I was lucky enough to be in the rear passenger side seat, all I did was keep shouting "what the hell's going on?" 🤣🤣
20:31...at this point he knew Carter had betrayed him too... especially after fleeing and locking the door...that's cold
It makes you wonder if Gorman would have wasted Burke if given the chance after he ran ;)
It was established that gorman was inexperienced. So i dismiss this theory out of hand.
@@garygood6804 fair enough 😉
Well it's clear Wey-yu knew about the Xeno, it's why they had the colony there. However, I believe the whole point for choosing Gorman was the company didn't know what this thing was capable of, so along with getting specimens they would also need combat data. An experienced commander would easily be able to make correct calls and ensure the marines would be able to wipe out the Xeno's. Gorman no doubt came straight out of the officer's corp as he mentions he has done lots of simulated drops and Hadley's was only his second so he had little to no combat experience as he wasn't a grunt to begin with and he was also lacking leadership experience, in other words, a perfect patsy to get ensure people get infested and to gather raw combat data. I doubt there was an ulterior motive for Gorman. If there was, he would've left like Burke did to ensure he would survive and not go back for Vasquez. Also the Sulcao is too big of a ship for the mission, something the size of the Marlowe would be better, however a large ship, lots of weapons and supplies? Maybe that made him overconfident and combined with his inexperience was a deadly combination. Not sure if this means anything but the Sulaco is know as a very unlucky ship, having several docking accidents, fire and friendly fire incidents to her name. I know it seems rubbish there could be a supernatural slant to thins but the maybe the curse of the Sulaco was real or maybe one of the Weyland Yutani board has a sick sense of humour? Anyway's, it's clear the company wanted Gorman and the team to fail and maybe Burke as well. Gorman being by the book and choosing to eat away from his troops also is something he probably picked up Officer's academy. He is an officer and he doesn't eat with the rank and file. The marines picked up on this and hence why there is mockery and a lack of respect; the dead lines he imposed was a way of not only trying to assert some form of command but also the regain some type of credibility as a leader. He was quiet at dinner because I believe he didn't have the intelligence until they were at their destination. A need to know basis. Also the reports were no doubt doctored by the company, as shown when Burke makes mention of Ash and makes it sound like he was a the reason for the deaths when there were zero deaths attributed to Ash.
@@Freyafanboy90 certainly a more feasible analysis of what happened. I know the more obvious in terms of what we see is logically more acceptable for most but the great thing about these films is the subtleties. They inspire so many theories and thinking outside the box, even if it probably isn't the truth of the matter.
He was a pawn definitely not malicious.
👍
be real, he was bought by wey-yu........and someone else in the chain of command was plain out bribed
Burke’s plan - Gorman was naive BUT could sign off the transfer of specimens. Apone could manage any combat in Burke’s view. But got killed.
@@sargonixofur1234 👍
Wonderful thought provoking theory, when seen in modern context, seems more believable
@@Villafarrell thanks very much buddy, appreciate this. Yeah, once you start thinking about these alternative narratives, it's very hard to stop 😁
Fun idea, but no. Gorman was just green as pointed out by comments above. Burke having the insight for spinning the situation and oversight of the mission was enough based on various books (Leading Edge Games, Bug Hunt, etc.) on the subject.
@@raybelcher5200 I tend to r gard the novels the same as other RUclips theories, they came after 😉. All have their merits but I get your point. I also subscribe to your understanding of the film but as you say, it's fun to theorize 👍
2nd Lieutenant would be the minimum rank required to lead such a mission, so he was simply a brand-new officer eagre for advancement - which would require at least a handful of combat missions as a tick in the box. I never got the sense he was compromised, but he's likely been given some subtle instruction from the brass, something like "The company has a keen interest in this, if the mission goes well, you'll be a captain when you get back" which would be a very rapid advancement, and possibly remove him from combat units entirely after a single mission. His indifference is from knowing he won't be assigned to these marines for long, not from anything overtly sinister, and his inexperience would make him open to suggestion during the course of the mission. Once he wakes up, he always looked to me like he was ashamed he had panicked on first contact while Ripley, a civilian, had taken the decisive action that he should have taken. He likely vowed he would never make such a mistake again- and he doesn't. Goreman's weapon is out the second he sees the facehuggers in medical, he's the one who pulls it off Ripley. He spends his remaining time deferring to his NCOs, engaging the enemy directly, and ultimately giving his life for the Marines under his command.
@@jarvy251 oh you are more likely to be right my dude. The theory is a stretch, I know, but it was fun exploring a different alternative idea.
You bring up some interesting points, but was Gorman compromised all along? No. Gorman was an inexperienced officer who was chosen for one reason only - Expendability. Note the timeline on everything. Burke didn't send the Derelict coordinates until after Ripley's debriefing. Soon after, contact is lost at Hadley's Hope. Burke needed to act fast to cover his ass and contain the situation at the least and profit from something at the most. Gorman was available and naive. Also keep in mind the depiction of the Marines was based off of the Vietnam war where multiple units where under the command of inexperienced junior officers fresh out of either the Academy or, more likely, OCS. Gorman wasn't a company man, and he wasn't a scheming corpo like Burke. He was a patsy who ultimately proved his quality with his sacrifice.
@@smnash82 I think most would agree 👍