The Justice League Unlimited episode with the Legion of Superheroes with Braniac 5.0 was the closest representation of art imitating life. Also the "New Kids in Town" episode from Superman The Animated Series with Braniac voiced by Corey Burton as he goes to to Smallville to destroy Clark Kent before he becomes Superman with the Legion of Superheroes Cosmic Boy, Chameleon Boy and Saturn Girl intercepting Braniac from destroying Clark Kent was great. Also the Braniac 5.0 in Legion of Superheroes on Kids WB going evil in season 2 due to Braniac 1.0 and then leading to a cliffhanger ending with Braniac 1.0 coming back to life was good. I was hoping Corey Burton coming back to voice Braniac 1.0 for season 3.
There were some absolutely gorgeous Alan Davis covers during the Brainiac 5.1 era. Speaking of art, I remember my barely-ten-years-old-self being confused and repelled by Giffen's work on the more adult treatment of the Legion. Now, though, that's probably my favorite era. Well, maybe. It's up there with Legion Lost, for sure. God, I can still remember that moment where Imra screams at Jenni to run ... woo!
FWIW, I’ve been a Legion fan since SUPERBOY #218 (on-sale April 20, 1976), my first issue, when I was 8 ½, and have been hardcore since the start of the giant era at SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #231 (June 21, 1977). I’d’ve been more hardcore before, but it was easy as a kid to miss an issue here or there in the days before comic book stores were a thing. But I’ve been on board for every issue since. So with that in mind, some corrections, quips, and nitpicks: • The Legion was not really “invented to be supporting cast for Superboy to appear against,” at least not beyond their first appearance. They truly were one-offs, and, in truth, Otto Binder cribbed much of the plot from earlier stories of his, in STRANGE ADVENTURES #60 and #62. The Legion did not make their 2nd appearance for nearly two years after ADVENTURE COMICS #247 (Feb. 27, 1958), in ADVENTURE COMICS #267 (Oct. 29, 1959). This second appearance was presumably based on reader requests. • Nobody refers to the Silver Age Legion as “the 1958 Legion,” at least nobody I’ve ever met online or IRL in more than 40 years of Legion fandom. In fact, because of the many differences between the Legion in their first appearance - in costumes, powers, origins, etc. - the 1958 story is most often considered its own thing. • Ashley slips and refers to Cosmic Boy and Cosmic Lad. She may have been thinking about Lighting Lad, who was called Lightning Boy in his first appearance. • Why was Brainy not called “Brain Boy?” Because he was introduced a fifth generation descendant of Brainiac. Keep in mind, at this point, Brainiac was thought to be flesh and blood, and had not yet been retconned into being an android. Brainiac made his debut in ACTION COMICS #242 (May 29, 1958). Brainiac 5, as you noted, first appeared in ACTON COMICS #276(March 30, 1961). But it was not until SUPERMAN #167 (Dec. 19, 1963). In an editor’s footnote in that story, it was explained that the people of Colu gave Brainiac a meber of their race to raise as a son. This person, dubbed Brainaic II, was then said to be the real ancestor of Brainac 5. • Now, you’re probably wondering how Brainy could by just the fifth-generation descendant of Brainiac, or fourth of Brainiac II. Well, Unca Mort had trouble keeping the story straight when it came to early Legion stories. In some of the team’s early appearances in the Supergirl back-up feature in ACTION COMICS, they described themselves as the children of the Legion Superboy met. In others, their far-future adventures were said to only take place in the 21st century. Once TPTB settled on the 30th century as the actual setting, DC essentially awarded itself a Marvel No-Prize by deciding Coluans had super-long lifespans. • The Brainiac Family Tree Ashley gives is all post-Rebirth retcons of Post-New 52 retcons, of post-Birthright retcons, of post-Infinite Crisis retcons of post-Zero Hour retcons, of post-Crisis retcons, and you’re welcome to them. • FWIW, I don’t pronounce Querl as you folks and the CW peeps do, as if it rhymes with squirrel. To me it has always been KWERL. I also do not pronounce post-boot L.E.G.I.O.N. Vril Dox as VRY-ill. It is one syllable, VRIL (rhymes with pill). I pronounce Colu and KAW-loo. But, hey, I was 27 before I realized it’s not pronounced Dark-seed, so what do I know. • Never, ever, anywhere have I heard that the Lyle Norg Invisible Kid of the Legion is actually Brainiac 7. I for totes need a citation on that. In the “threeboot” continuity, Lyle was sometimes derisively referred to by his teammates as Brainaic 6, due to his closeness to Brainy, whom no one else could stand, but I am not aware of any Brainiac 7 and Invisible Kid is certainly NOT “a relative” of anyone in the Brainiac line. • The Bryak name was only used once, in an untold story of Superbaby meeting Brainiac, in SUPERBOY #106 (May 16, 1963). It was said to be Brainiac’s home planet, where all humanoid life was wiped out by a plague. The Colu name was first used in the issue mentioned above, where Brainiac was revealed to be an android. The Yod name was a mistake, given as the name of Brainiac 5’s homeworld in ADVENTURE COMICS #356 (March 30, 1967). Apparently, writer E. Nelson Bridwall forgot the Colu name, despite his reputation as a master of comics trivia. It was later explained in the “Legion Outpost” letters page, for young fans who did remember and demanded to know, “What the hell?!?” that “Yod” was the name of Colu in another language on the planet. So, thing Earth/Terra. That sufficed and the Yod goof was forgotten by all until the recent Yod-Colu foolishness. • Brainiac 5 did in fact invent the flight rings on his own. He unveiled them as such in ADVENTURE COMICS #329 (Dec. 31, 1964). Prior to that the Legion used flight belts. And, in fact, would give the belts as consolation prizes to worthy applicants rejected for membership. All the subs got belts. The excuse of the rings was that the would allow the Legionnaires to dispense with the more cumbersome belts. But the IRL reason was just because the artists got tired of drawing the dang belts, while Unca Mort got tired of having kids point out to him when someone was seen flying without one. It was kind of the same deal with the Legion transsuits, which came along just to keep from having to draw characters in space suits every time they went outside an airlock. • The reason Mon-El gets convoluted into the flight ring origin is because when he joined the Legion in disguise as Marvel Lad (a.k.a. Legionnaire Lemon) in ADVENTURE COMICS #305 (Dec. 27, 1962) on of the feats be performed in order to demonstrate his power to be super-awesome, was to invent an ant-gravity metal. Although I don’t recall this ever being made canon, fans retroactively decided this metal is what Brainy used to make the rings. Invisible Kid’s participation comes from the reboot continuity, when he made practical effect of a discarded Brainiac 5 invention to engineer the rings. It was kind of a way of showing that while Invisible Kid was obvs. Not as smart as Brainy, he was smart in a different way, and this useful to have around. • It was Saturn Girl who invented Serum XY-4 in ADVENTURE COMICS #300 (July 26, 1962), which allowed Mon-El to leave the Phantom Zone for short periods of time. Brainiac 5 developed the permanent solution in ADV #305. • The confusion around Pulsar Stargrave comes in part from a revolving chair of writers. He was introduced in SUPERBOY #223-224, by Jim Shooter, who left after that issue. Ashley mentions #225, but my memory is that Brainy does not appear as part of the main roll call in that issue at all. The main action instead is Wildfire being elected team leader. No one really knew what Shooter had intended Stargrave’s deal to be, with only hints dropped, as I recall. We was deal with next by Paul Levitz in the back-up story in #226, then in #227 by Gerry Conway. So, that’s kind of the reason for the whole see-saw on is/is not original Brainiac and/or Brainiac’s father. • The character Ashley refers to as Superboy-Prime, which Jason refers to as the Golden Age Superboy, as actually known as the Pocket Universe Supeboy. As Jason notes, the Legion lost Superboy as its founding inspiration with the post-Crisis Byrne-boot. Part of the solution was the decision that the Time Trapper created an alternate timeline where Superman had a career as Superboy, and thus he still existed, in a way, and this saved having the rewrite all of Legion continuity to eliminate Superboy, who had been integral to almost every Legion story. • Although Giffen was heavily involved, the 5-Year Gap was largely the work of super-fans Tom & Mary Bierbaum. • The Great Darkness Saga was pre-5-Year Gap (and also pre-Keith Giffen is a dick to all Legionnaires particularly Karate Kids), although you guys might have been referring to the rewritten continuity there. • It wasn’t so much that Brainy didn’t want to be called Briniac 5 during the “Legion on the Run” era. All of the Legionnaires were forced to go underground, and changed their code names. Cosmic Boy became Polestar, Shrinking Violet became Virus, etc. etc. • The reboot Legion (a.k.a Post-Zero Hour, the Archie Legion) was GREAT. Where it went south was during the Emerald Vi storyline. The original plan was for Kinetix to get possessed by the Emerald Eye, but fans guessed where the story was going and began posting it all over the then-nascent internet (AOL: You’ve got spoilers!), so, TPTB switched things up at the last minute, making Violet fill the familiar one-of-us-is-a-traitor Legion trope. (See also: Hawk becoming Monarch instead of Captain Atom during ARMAGEDDON 2001). Anyway, that led to the Team 20/Team 30 split, and the book began to suck. This is not my opinion. This is a fact. Which also happens to be my opinion. • At Zero Hour, LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES went #61 (Aug. 2, 1994), rebooted with #0 (Aug. 16, 1994) and then continued in the new continuity with #62 (Sept. 13, 1994). LEGIONNAIRES, which was following the Batch SW-6 Legion (plus new recruits) following the destruction of Earth, was a much newer series. It went #18 (July 12, 1994), rebooted at #0 (Aug. 30, 1994), and followed the new continuity as of #19 (Sept. 27, 1994). • Mon-El actually is a code name. His real name is Lar Gand. When he first landed on Earth, he had amnesia and Superboy thought, based on documents in Mon’s rocket, that he was a long-lost older brother. He thus dubbed him Mon-El because he arrived on a Monday. He kept the Mon-El name as a codename in the 30th century as a way to signal to all that he was part of the legendary House of El that included Superman. 1/2
I was a big fan of the original Legion (Silver Age). I've not read really anything after Crisis on Infinite Earths. Not a fan of all the reboots. BGZTL was known as the home planet of Phantom Girl where all natives have phantom powers to enable them to survive because their planet phased out periodically. Don't recall why anymore. Anyway, I always pronounced it Bigzittle in my head when reading.
Great podcast! you made a few mistakes but that is to be expected when talking about the legion and its many interactions.Hope you spend a lot of time on the legion!
"Brainy should be permanently trapped in the 20th century and be a Supergirl supporting character" HOW DID YOU GUYS PREDICT THE SUPERGIRL SEASON 3 FINALE ????
C.O.M.P.U.T.O. ... kinda like F*R*I*E*N*D*S, which was always how the show showed the title, but "people" (in articles online) don't necessarily put it ...
The Justice League Unlimited episode with the Legion of Superheroes with Braniac 5.0 was the closest representation of art imitating life. Also the "New Kids in Town" episode from Superman The Animated Series with Braniac voiced by Corey Burton as he goes to to Smallville to destroy Clark Kent before he becomes Superman with the Legion of Superheroes Cosmic Boy, Chameleon Boy and Saturn Girl intercepting Braniac from destroying Clark Kent was great. Also the Braniac 5.0 in Legion of Superheroes on Kids WB going evil in season 2 due to Braniac 1.0 and then leading to a cliffhanger ending with Braniac 1.0 coming back to life was good. I was hoping Corey Burton coming back to voice Braniac 1.0 for season 3.
You guys guessed his fate in the Supergirl finale roughly 6 months before it happened, well done!
I love the Legion.They are my Favorite comic book of all time.I hope you do spend a lot of time on the legion!!
What do you two think of Legionnaire X? I couldn't find a video of you talking about the whole LOSH. Hope you all are doing well.
There were some absolutely gorgeous Alan Davis covers during the Brainiac 5.1 era. Speaking of art, I remember my barely-ten-years-old-self being confused and repelled by Giffen's work on the more adult treatment of the Legion. Now, though, that's probably my favorite era. Well, maybe. It's up there with Legion Lost, for sure. God, I can still remember that moment where Imra screams at Jenni to run ... woo!
Woah. It hasn't even been 24 hours since the last lesson. Awesome.
I'd love to see a history of Shrinking Violet of the LSH!
Loved the Mike Grell legion where everyone looks like a super model
Loved, loved, loved this podcast! First time listener and now I'm subscribed.
Please do a History of The Legion of Superheroes one day
I think that the Legion of superheroes is as difficult to get into as green lantern corps all the legion needs is one central character.
I think you've convinced me to at least read Legion Lost.
FWIW, I’ve been a Legion fan since SUPERBOY #218 (on-sale April 20, 1976), my first issue, when I was 8 ½, and have been hardcore since the start of the giant era at SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #231 (June 21, 1977). I’d’ve been more hardcore before, but it was easy as a kid to miss an issue here or there in the days before comic book stores were a thing. But I’ve been on board for every issue since.
So with that in mind, some corrections, quips, and nitpicks:
• The Legion was not really “invented to be supporting cast for Superboy to appear against,” at least not beyond their first appearance. They truly were one-offs, and, in truth, Otto Binder cribbed much of the plot from earlier stories of his, in STRANGE ADVENTURES #60 and #62. The Legion did not make their 2nd appearance for nearly two years after ADVENTURE COMICS #247 (Feb. 27, 1958), in ADVENTURE COMICS #267 (Oct. 29, 1959). This second appearance was presumably based on reader requests.
• Nobody refers to the Silver Age Legion as “the 1958 Legion,” at least nobody I’ve ever met online or IRL in more than 40 years of Legion fandom. In fact, because of the many differences between the Legion in their first appearance - in costumes, powers, origins, etc. - the 1958 story is most often considered its own thing.
• Ashley slips and refers to Cosmic Boy and Cosmic Lad. She may have been thinking about Lighting Lad, who was called Lightning Boy in his first appearance.
• Why was Brainy not called “Brain Boy?” Because he was introduced a fifth generation descendant of Brainiac. Keep in mind, at this point, Brainiac was thought to be flesh and blood, and had not yet been retconned into being an android. Brainiac made his debut in ACTION COMICS #242 (May 29, 1958). Brainiac 5, as you noted, first appeared in ACTON COMICS #276(March 30, 1961). But it was not until SUPERMAN #167 (Dec. 19, 1963). In an editor’s footnote in that story, it was explained that the people of Colu gave Brainiac a meber of their race to raise as a son. This person, dubbed Brainaic II, was then said to be the real ancestor of Brainac 5.
• Now, you’re probably wondering how Brainy could by just the fifth-generation descendant of Brainiac, or fourth of Brainiac II. Well, Unca Mort had trouble keeping the story straight when it came to early Legion stories. In some of the team’s early appearances in the Supergirl back-up feature in ACTION COMICS, they described themselves as the children of the Legion Superboy met. In others, their far-future adventures were said to only take place in the 21st century. Once TPTB settled on the 30th century as the actual setting, DC essentially awarded itself a Marvel No-Prize by deciding Coluans had super-long lifespans.
• The Brainiac Family Tree Ashley gives is all post-Rebirth retcons of Post-New 52 retcons, of post-Birthright retcons, of post-Infinite Crisis retcons of post-Zero Hour retcons, of post-Crisis retcons, and you’re welcome to them.
• FWIW, I don’t pronounce Querl as you folks and the CW peeps do, as if it rhymes with squirrel. To me it has always been KWERL. I also do not pronounce post-boot L.E.G.I.O.N. Vril Dox as VRY-ill. It is one syllable, VRIL (rhymes with pill). I pronounce Colu and KAW-loo. But, hey, I was 27 before I realized it’s not pronounced Dark-seed, so what do I know.
• Never, ever, anywhere have I heard that the Lyle Norg Invisible Kid of the Legion is actually Brainiac 7. I for totes need a citation on that. In the “threeboot” continuity, Lyle was sometimes derisively referred to by his teammates as Brainaic 6, due to his closeness to Brainy, whom no one else could stand, but I am not aware of any Brainiac 7 and Invisible Kid is certainly NOT “a relative” of anyone in the Brainiac line.
• The Bryak name was only used once, in an untold story of Superbaby meeting Brainiac, in SUPERBOY #106 (May 16, 1963). It was said to be Brainiac’s home planet, where all humanoid life was wiped out by a plague. The Colu name was first used in the issue mentioned above, where Brainiac was revealed to be an android. The Yod name was a mistake, given as the name of Brainiac 5’s homeworld in ADVENTURE COMICS #356 (March 30, 1967). Apparently, writer E. Nelson Bridwall forgot the Colu name, despite his reputation as a master of comics trivia. It was later explained in the “Legion Outpost” letters page, for young fans who did remember and demanded to know, “What the hell?!?” that “Yod” was the name of Colu in another language on the planet. So, thing Earth/Terra. That sufficed and the Yod goof was forgotten by all until the recent Yod-Colu foolishness.
• Brainiac 5 did in fact invent the flight rings on his own. He unveiled them as such in ADVENTURE COMICS #329 (Dec. 31, 1964). Prior to that the Legion used flight belts. And, in fact, would give the belts as consolation prizes to worthy applicants rejected for membership. All the subs got belts. The excuse of the rings was that the would allow the Legionnaires to dispense with the more cumbersome belts. But the IRL reason was just because the artists got tired of drawing the dang belts, while Unca Mort got tired of having kids point out to him when someone was seen flying without one. It was kind of the same deal with the Legion transsuits, which came along just to keep from having to draw characters in space suits every time they went outside an airlock.
• The reason Mon-El gets convoluted into the flight ring origin is because when he joined the Legion in disguise as Marvel Lad (a.k.a. Legionnaire Lemon) in ADVENTURE COMICS #305 (Dec. 27, 1962) on of the feats be performed in order to demonstrate his power to be super-awesome, was to invent an ant-gravity metal. Although I don’t recall this ever being made canon, fans retroactively decided this metal is what Brainy used to make the rings. Invisible Kid’s participation comes from the reboot continuity, when he made practical effect of a discarded Brainiac 5 invention to engineer the rings. It was kind of a way of showing that while Invisible Kid was obvs. Not as smart as Brainy, he was smart in a different way, and this useful to have around.
• It was Saturn Girl who invented Serum XY-4 in ADVENTURE COMICS #300 (July 26, 1962), which allowed Mon-El to leave the Phantom Zone for short periods of time. Brainiac 5 developed the permanent solution in ADV #305.
• The confusion around Pulsar Stargrave comes in part from a revolving chair of writers. He was introduced in SUPERBOY #223-224, by Jim Shooter, who left after that issue. Ashley mentions #225, but my memory is that Brainy does not appear as part of the main roll call in that issue at all. The main action instead is Wildfire being elected team leader. No one really knew what Shooter had intended Stargrave’s deal to be, with only hints dropped, as I recall. We was deal with next by Paul Levitz in the back-up story in #226, then in #227 by Gerry Conway. So, that’s kind of the reason for the whole see-saw on is/is not original Brainiac and/or Brainiac’s father.
• The character Ashley refers to as Superboy-Prime, which Jason refers to as the Golden Age Superboy, as actually known as the Pocket Universe Supeboy. As Jason notes, the Legion lost Superboy as its founding inspiration with the post-Crisis Byrne-boot. Part of the solution was the decision that the Time Trapper created an alternate timeline where Superman had a career as Superboy, and thus he still existed, in a way, and this saved having the rewrite all of Legion continuity to eliminate Superboy, who had been integral to almost every Legion story.
• Although Giffen was heavily involved, the 5-Year Gap was largely the work of super-fans Tom & Mary Bierbaum.
• The Great Darkness Saga was pre-5-Year Gap (and also pre-Keith Giffen is a dick to all Legionnaires particularly Karate Kids), although you guys might have been referring to the rewritten continuity there.
• It wasn’t so much that Brainy didn’t want to be called Briniac 5 during the “Legion on the Run” era. All of the Legionnaires were forced to go underground, and changed their code names. Cosmic Boy became Polestar, Shrinking Violet became Virus, etc. etc.
• The reboot Legion (a.k.a Post-Zero Hour, the Archie Legion) was GREAT. Where it went south was during the Emerald Vi storyline. The original plan was for Kinetix to get possessed by the Emerald Eye, but fans guessed where the story was going and began posting it all over the then-nascent internet (AOL: You’ve got spoilers!), so, TPTB switched things up at the last minute, making Violet fill the familiar one-of-us-is-a-traitor Legion trope. (See also: Hawk becoming Monarch instead of Captain Atom during ARMAGEDDON 2001). Anyway, that led to the Team 20/Team 30 split, and the book began to suck. This is not my opinion. This is a fact. Which also happens to be my opinion.
• At Zero Hour, LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES went #61 (Aug. 2, 1994), rebooted with #0 (Aug. 16, 1994) and then continued in the new continuity with #62 (Sept. 13, 1994). LEGIONNAIRES, which was following the Batch SW-6 Legion (plus new recruits) following the destruction of Earth, was a much newer series. It went #18 (July 12, 1994), rebooted at #0 (Aug. 30, 1994), and followed the new continuity as of #19 (Sept. 27, 1994).
• Mon-El actually is a code name. His real name is Lar Gand. When he first landed on Earth, he had amnesia and Superboy thought, based on documents in Mon’s rocket, that he was a long-lost older brother. He thus dubbed him Mon-El because he arrived on a Monday. He kept the Mon-El name as a codename in the 30th century as a way to signal to all that he was part of the legendary House of El that included Superman.
1/2
There actually is ...or was...a character called Brain boy; his adventures were published in the early 60's (Google him)
I was a big fan of the original Legion (Silver Age). I've not read really anything after Crisis on Infinite Earths. Not a fan of all the reboots. BGZTL was known as the home planet of Phantom Girl where all natives have phantom powers to enable them to survive because their planet phased out periodically. Don't recall why anymore. Anyway, I always pronounced it Bigzittle in my head when reading.
Great podcast! you made a few mistakes but that is to be expected when talking about the legion and its many interactions.Hope you spend a lot of time on the legion!
@Jawiin I think KID AMAZO would be a perfect character to be reborn as a Legion member or a heart of gold killer futuristic hero. #THELEGIONREBORN
Additionally.....(a) there is a Legion Academy, and (b) Chameleon of the Threeboot Legion was specifically named because gender didn't apply on Durla
Best Legion of Superheroes=3BOOOT!!!!!!!!!!! ( I agree that after Waid leaves it falls apart, but I love what He did with it)
Thank you.
Brainiac 5 always confused me
"Brainy should be permanently trapped in the 20th century and be a Supergirl supporting character" HOW DID YOU GUYS PREDICT THE SUPERGIRL SEASON 3 FINALE ????
C.O.M.P.U.T.O. ... kinda like F*R*I*E*N*D*S, which was always how the show showed the title, but "people" (in articles online) don't necessarily put it ...
Brainiac 5 as depicted in Supergirl was absolutely horrible. He looked liked a zombie.
I'm not sure if you're aware but your brain works in binary. That's pretty cool right?
❤️😊🇨🇦