Not going to ever be happy that the Pistons took Killian over Tyrese but the one thing nobody really talks about was that 2020 draft was obviously during the pandemic. Teams had less workouts to evaluate players and had to do most of their scouting/film reviews and interviews on Zoom calls. Especially for international players we didn’t really get to see Killian come to the states for extended time to see and talk to him in person. I seriously think if we weren’t on lockdown across the world in that time Wiseman and Killian wouldn’t have went as high as they did and Halliburton and other better players from that draft class (which was overall pretty weak though) would’ve moved up.
What I find funny is KH cons were so much worse than Tyrese . And you could argue Hal’s pros were so much better than KH yet somehow he was ranked higher .
Hali was just refering to you guys needing a PG. I dont think he was saying that hayes was a bad pick. Just that it was your biggest need. Bet his agent told him detroit was gonna take him. Now indy stole em from ya
Yeah but even at the time Hali was the right pick. The fact he slid so far is still baffling Edit: Upon further review of the late lotto and picks after Hayes, with the exception of Kira Lewis, all of them were and are better players.
except they werent in college literally killian hayes was said to be better than tyrese haliburton i mean yall wouldnt have picked haliburton cause nobody knew he was gonna be this good you can go all about hindsight and how they made a bad pick yet it was an amazing pick back then and they cant predict the future and neither can you@@mimosajd
@@mimosajd definitely agree. NBA loves athletic potential. Hali isn't the most athletic and has his crazy looking shot. Scared people away. This is coming from a hard-core pacers fan. Couldn't believe we got him.
I mean that’s just a couple mock drafts who put Hayes above Haliburton… I feel like majority of mock drafts had Haliburton going before Hayes Edit: Okay, so I just googled “NBA mock draft” and these were the first 5 results… 1.) _NBA website:_ Had Haliburton at #6 and Killian at #7 2.) _CBS SPORTS:_ Had Haliburton #6 and Killian at #8 3.) _NBADraft website:_ Had Haliburtonat #8 and Killian at #10 4.) _Bleacher Report:_ Had Haliburton at #6 and Killian at #12 5.) _Sports Illustrated:_ Had Haliburton at #4 and Killian at #7
I’ve been trying to leave a comment showing that the first 5 results I got after googling “2020 NBA mock draft” all have Hali above Killian but RUclips keeps deleting them. (Which 1 of those was CBS Sports and it showed Tyrese going before Hayes in the one I saw)
@@albericponcedeleon2696 I didn’t even include links but I think I know why, it’s because I _”NBA _*_DOT_*_ com”_ except I left a a space “NBA” and *DOT* and “com” as so it would turn into a link but I think it still flagged it. So ima try it again but this time spell out the *DOT* like I did here. Lol Hopefully that’ll work. (I should still have it copied and so should only have to push “paste” instead of typing it all out again. Just got fix the *DOT*’s)
Okay, so I just quickly googled 2020 mock draft and opened the first 5 results… 1.) _NBA _*_DOT_*_ com:_ Had Haliburton at #6 and Killian at #7 2.) _CBS SPORTS:_ Had Haliburton #6 and Killian at #8 3.) _“NBADraft _*_DOT_*_ Net:”_ Had Haliburtonat #8 and Killian at #10 4.) _Bleacher Report:_ Had Haliburton at #6 and Killian at #12 5.) _Sports Illustrated:_ Had Haliburton at #4 and Killian at #7
@@albericponcedeleon2696 Hopefully it just let me post because instead of putting the website, I just put “EXAMPLE _website:”_ (also I luckily still had it copied and so only had to paste it and then go switch it to _”website”_ lol)
Nah brah, I remember watching Tyrese cooking in college and I was watching Killian highlights and I was not impressed by Killian, and I thought the Pistons should have picked Tyrese at that time too.
Krispy, there is a difference btwn people writing columns and people in nba front offices. Your job is to scout and draft the BEST players, not the consensus players.
Hali is just a small town guy and it’s why I love him. He’s a high tier guy at his position, but he does it for his city end of the day and I can respect that big time.
Do yall remember when the celtics shocked the world by trading out of fultz to get tatum then saying they would've taken tatum no1 anyways over fultz in a draft where fultz was the no1 clear prospect? That's an ability to gauge talent. The pistons continually missing, continually listening to what other people having to say and not trusting their own talent evaluation and people is why they're continually bad drafters and as bad as they are. Every year they do what the draft boards say. Cade at 1 sure. Have to take ivey at 5 if he's there etc etc. Where's the trust in yourself and what you believe in, that's why they're known as such bad drafters. They should've taken a risk taken haliburton just like the celtics took a risk and took tatum. but they didn't and here we are. Scottie Barnes over Suggs another experience of this. Paolo no1 in 2022 over jabari another experience. Pistons need to stop with these safe picks.
As a Celtics fan, I will say Boston media didn't believe Ainge. They don't believe that Tatum would have been taken first if they kept it. There's some luck in the pick. Look Ainge gets tons of credit, because that pick was criticized at the time. Fultz, Lonzo, and Fox were considered better. Also... what's his name, Josh Jackson? He had a pre-draft workout planned, but his agent told him to not show up, so he stood up Ainge and C's because he didn't want to be drafted by C's. He wanted to go to the Suns. At the time in mock drafts, Josh Jackson was called "an Ainge kind of player". So a little bit of luck. Tatum also had to be convinced, and Coach K told him Boston would be a good fit. C's had multiple wings then, Crowder before they traded for Hayward, Marcus Morris, and some other dude.
3:12 Hey!!! You shut your mouth!! Lol Not that I’m at all worried Halliburton would leave but we don’t even need to put such a preposterous notion out into the universe… lol he’s staying here in Indiana.
They had pgs. He was showing dominance to lead an nba team you have to have that dog in you. I would have drafted him and shipped out Darius if I was the cavs.
tbh Killian's demise is Pistons fault never really helped him progress with that jumper. Playmaking, defense, handles and size is there most of the time they just ignore it bc Killian can't score
@@lovedenaro6729exactly, they put him on the starting lineup as a rookie point guard prob the hardest position as a rookie. And the injuries didn't help as well
Tyrese was also lower on mock drafts due to his age being an older prospect. Age and upside are always amplified during draft and regret comes after when the actual NBA-ready prospects get to play. He knew he was the best after LaMelo at that time, scouts clearly overlooked
Problem w. K. Hayes scouting report is that they paid a lof of attention to his Eurocup games which turned out to be good (=> much better stats at supposedly higher level, so there was some hope). But yeah, in the end really bad call. And to be fair, the scouting report wasn't that inaccurate but the issue is Hayes never improved on his weaknesses nor found any countermeasure to his weaknesses (left hand dominant, below average shooter, lacking 1st step) and it made him a liability on offense.
For PG’s, I thought it was Lamelo, Cole Anthony, I counted Maxey as one, And then Tyrese. I wasn’t familiar with Hayes at all until drafts season. I wasn’t impressed with his stats, but he kept getting Harden comps. I didn’t expect Tyrese to become as good as he has been, but If that kid could become 75-80% of prime Harden (that passes more than shoots), then Detroit might have stolen one. That was my thought at the time.
I mean, some of these articles were saying he was #1 or #2, but no one from the top 6 actually got him. And we don't know for sure, maybe if the Pistons didn't take him, he would've gone much lower. We'll never know!
That whole draft was supposed to be a terrible draft. Nobody was suppose to be a star. Just shows what scouts or so called sports writers say about prospects. Sorry but the fact is teams make mistakes and the Pistons done shiat the bed on that pick
You can look up any article and try to shake this how you want. Big L for the pistons. And that cbs article has Hayes over Edwards which everyone knew wasn’t the case. Stop it fam
Why people still take prospects who struggled in lower levels and expect them to be something in the NBA are beyond me. Theyre the EXCEPTIONS not the RULE
I think for the vast majority of the time, it’s a *very* poor choice to say the least… like you said, there’s _exceptions_ to the rule but they’re just that, EXCEPTIONS. Like for example, (this is gonna be about the NFL, not the NBA but still works) I think the Colts drafting Anthony Richardson could potentially be one of the exceptions to the rule. Because while yes he did struggle in college, there was plenty of reasons there to believe that’s not indicative of just how good he can be. Some of those things being… 1.) he had very poor talent around him unlike Bryce Young and CJ Stroud. 2.) he’s still very young and only started 13 games in college. 3.) What his stat line doesn’t show is that even though his first half of the season was pretty poor, he was improving by quite a bit in the second half. 4.) Then of course… his FREAK athleticism.
WEAVER AND MONTY need to go! We could have had talent! and Weaver wanted Monty, They both go down togethe. Doesnt this sound like the situation with Carmelo and Pistons screwing him over in the draft?
Man Krispy... This seems like an overly touchy subject for you. You are overreacting to the semantics of what Hali said. Killian must have really hurt you...
listen i should be in a NBA frontoffice i called killian being a bust i wanted detroit to get Cole Anthony still not the right pick but hes at least a solid 12/4/4 guy on 44/33/84
I'm sick of this 💩! The last thing Pistons fans need right now is to be reminded for the umpteenth time how we should've drafted Haliburton or any other player we missed out on please cut this out.
I told everybody I knew that he was gonna be really fuckin good in the NBA. If you watched him in college(which I doubt many did), you could tell he was solid. But I saw the upside many saw with Killian. Now one’s an NBA all star and arguable best PG in the league, and the other a bum
So your basically excusing the pistons for not taking a guy that draft scouts all agreed would’ve been better than the guy the pistons actually took😂😂😂 Weaver is a terrible GM and the guy he drafted in his first draft as GM was so bad that he got released 4 years later. You can’t look at mock drafts from analysts , they don’t know what they’re doing most of the time. That’s an NBA scout’s job
Tyrese is not the best point guard in that draft it’s lamelo he just isn’t healthy rn but when he plays he’s clearly better than Halliburton hell he’s not even the best Tyrese in his class
Its not about what TH felt its about Troy Weaver being completely incompetent. Troy Weaver is trash just admit. Stop making excuses for the man. He was gifted Cade who can do everything but shoot.... so he needed to surround him with shooting and instead he's drafted 3 straight athletes that cant shoot. None of them, besides Cade, can even dribble with their heads up. Troy Weaver needs to be fired yesterday.
Not going to ever be happy that the Pistons took Killian over Tyrese but the one thing nobody really talks about was that 2020 draft was obviously during the pandemic. Teams had less workouts to evaluate players and had to do most of their scouting/film reviews and interviews on Zoom calls. Especially for international players we didn’t really get to see Killian come to the states for extended time to see and talk to him in person. I seriously think if we weren’t on lockdown across the world in that time Wiseman and Killian wouldn’t have went as high as they did and Halliburton and other better players from that draft class (which was overall pretty weak though) would’ve moved up.
That's a good point, because if you look through the lottery of that draft there are a lot of subpar picks
Killian Hayes stepback is impossible to defend. My question is, has it ever gone in the basket?
It doesn’t need to be defended .
anthony edwards, shades of, dion waiters, eric gordon, victor oladipo.
Pacers oladipo was pretty good.
Prime oladipo not a bad comparison
Funniest thing I saw
Nah bro I know they wish they could go back in time to change that 😂
But oladipo was good not gonna lie
What I find funny is KH cons were so much worse than Tyrese . And you could argue Hal’s pros were so much better than KH yet somehow he was ranked higher .
Right
Hali was just refering to you guys needing a PG. I dont think he was saying that hayes was a bad pick. Just that it was your biggest need. Bet his agent told him detroit was gonna take him. Now indy stole em from ya
Yeah but even at the time Hali was the right pick. The fact he slid so far is still baffling
Edit: Upon further review of the late lotto and picks after Hayes, with the exception of Kira Lewis, all of them were and are better players.
except they werent in college literally killian hayes was said to be better than tyrese haliburton i mean yall wouldnt have picked haliburton cause nobody knew he was gonna be this good you can go all about hindsight and how they made a bad pick yet it was an amazing pick back then and they cant predict the future and neither can you@@mimosajd
@@mimosajd definitely agree. NBA loves athletic potential. Hali isn't the most athletic and has his crazy looking shot. Scared people away. This is coming from a hard-core pacers fan. Couldn't believe we got him.
Well technically Sacramento stole him initially but then they lost him to Indy lol
Hali and d book wanted to be here 🥲🥲 Devin wore a red wings jersey last weekend
He’s from Detroit
@@prawinjeyathas5053 no he isn’t he is from grand rapids
@@prawinjeyathas5053 Michigan. Not Detroit.
He wears tigers and lions stuff also, but know Stanley johnson
Book wanted to go to Orlando
We can't forget that a lot of the buzz around Killian was his French connection with Sekou Dwmbouya. That's a big reason the Pistons drafted him.
I mean that’s just a couple mock drafts who put Hayes above Haliburton… I feel like majority of mock drafts had Haliburton going before Hayes
Edit: Okay, so I just googled “NBA mock draft” and these were the first 5 results…
1.) _NBA website:_ Had Haliburton at #6 and Killian at #7
2.) _CBS SPORTS:_ Had Haliburton #6 and Killian at #8
3.) _NBADraft website:_ Had Haliburtonat #8 and Killian at #10
4.) _Bleacher Report:_ Had Haliburton at #6 and Killian at #12
5.) _Sports Illustrated:_ Had Haliburton at #4 and Killian at #7
I’ve been trying to leave a comment showing that the first 5 results I got after googling “2020 NBA mock draft” all have Hali above Killian but RUclips keeps deleting them. (Which 1 of those was CBS Sports and it showed Tyrese going before Hayes in the one I saw)
If you were including the links, that might be the reason why your comment didn't show. Allegedly, that can trigger automated anti-spam.
@@albericponcedeleon2696 I didn’t even include links but I think I know why, it’s because I _”NBA _*_DOT_*_ com”_ except I left a a space “NBA” and *DOT* and “com” as so it would turn into a link but I think it still flagged it. So ima try it again but this time spell out the *DOT* like I did here. Lol Hopefully that’ll work. (I should still have it copied and so should only have to push “paste” instead of typing it all out again. Just got fix the *DOT*’s)
Okay, so I just quickly googled 2020 mock draft and opened the first 5 results…
1.) _NBA _*_DOT_*_ com:_ Had Haliburton at #6 and Killian at #7
2.) _CBS SPORTS:_ Had Haliburton #6 and Killian at #8
3.) _“NBADraft _*_DOT_*_ Net:”_ Had Haliburtonat #8 and Killian at #10
4.) _Bleacher Report:_ Had Haliburton at #6 and Killian at #12
5.) _Sports Illustrated:_ Had Haliburton at #4 and Killian at #7
@@albericponcedeleon2696 Hopefully it just let me post because instead of putting the website, I just put “EXAMPLE _website:”_ (also I luckily still had it copied and so only had to paste it and then go switch it to _”website”_ lol)
Did you hear the commissioner after the all star game? 😂
East you scored the most points
Well... Congratulations 🤣
Technically... I guess you... were the... team that..."won" seems too strong and term 😂😂
Nah brah, I remember watching Tyrese cooking in college and I was watching Killian highlights and I was not impressed by Killian, and I thought the Pistons should have picked Tyrese at that time too.
Most NBA fans and a good amount of NBA media don't watch college ball. Anyone who saw Tyrese play in college knew what he was.
They had him ranked low but every report said he was the best pg , thank God for Sacramento and Detroit Pacers really appreciate y’all ✊🏾🤣
I also remember KIllian Hayes being crazy good in nba2k21
Krispy, there is a difference btwn people writing columns and people in nba front offices. Your job is to scout and draft the BEST players, not the consensus players.
Hali is just a small town guy and it’s why I love him. He’s a high tier guy at his position, but he does it for his city end of the day and I can respect that big time.
lol krispy KOC was clowned at the time for his killian #1 take
Do yall remember when the celtics shocked the world by trading out of fultz to get tatum then saying they would've taken tatum no1 anyways over fultz in a draft where fultz was the no1 clear prospect? That's an ability to gauge talent. The pistons continually missing, continually listening to what other people having to say and not trusting their own talent evaluation and people is why they're continually bad drafters and as bad as they are. Every year they do what the draft boards say. Cade at 1 sure. Have to take ivey at 5 if he's there etc etc. Where's the trust in yourself and what you believe in, that's why they're known as such bad drafters. They should've taken a risk taken haliburton just like the celtics took a risk and took tatum. but they didn't and here we are.
Scottie Barnes over Suggs another experience of this.
Paolo no1 in 2022 over jabari another experience.
Pistons need to stop with these safe picks.
As a Celtics fan, I will say Boston media didn't believe Ainge. They don't believe that Tatum would have been taken first if they kept it. There's some luck in the pick. Look Ainge gets tons of credit, because that pick was criticized at the time. Fultz, Lonzo, and Fox were considered better. Also... what's his name, Josh Jackson? He had a pre-draft workout planned, but his agent told him to not show up, so he stood up Ainge and C's because he didn't want to be drafted by C's. He wanted to go to the Suns. At the time in mock drafts, Josh Jackson was called "an Ainge kind of player". So a little bit of luck. Tatum also had to be convinced, and Coach K told him Boston would be a good fit. C's had multiple wings then, Crowder before they traded for Hayward, Marcus Morris, and some other dude.
5:18 "Versatile offensive threat who can serve as a shot creator or as a screener; he can fill a range of roles". Patrick Williams? IKYFL 😂😂😂
3:12 Hey!!! You shut your mouth!! Lol Not that I’m at all worried Halliburton would leave but we don’t even need to put such a preposterous notion out into the universe… lol he’s staying here in Indiana.
Tyrese also manufactured his slide with his agent. He told at least 2 teams not to pick him
They had pgs. He was showing dominance to lead an nba team you have to have that dog in you. I would have drafted him and shipped out Darius if I was the cavs.
tbh Killian's demise is Pistons fault never really helped him progress with that jumper. Playmaking, defense, handles and size is there most of the time they just ignore it bc Killian can't score
True, but sometimes banking on potential, instead of looking at if you can optimize that potential also matters.
They never even put killian in the g league
@@lovedenaro6729exactly, they put him on the starting lineup as a rookie point guard prob the hardest position as a rookie. And the injuries didn't help as well
Tyrese was also lower on mock drafts due to his age being an older prospect. Age and upside are always amplified during draft and regret comes after when the actual NBA-ready prospects get to play. He knew he was the best after LaMelo at that time, scouts clearly overlooked
He was 20 🤦🏽♀️you acting like that was old asf
@@ShanalisaLipan ask the scouts yo. The buzz word was "18 year old Frenchman". Again upside and age are hyper-focused during draft season
Bro ur fuckin hilarious 😂 wish we were boys irl
grasping onto straws
Problem w. K. Hayes scouting report is that they paid a lof of attention to his Eurocup games which turned out to be good (=> much better stats at supposedly higher level, so there was some hope). But yeah, in the end really bad call. And to be fair, the scouting report wasn't that inaccurate but the issue is Hayes never improved on his weaknesses nor found any countermeasure to his weaknesses (left hand dominant, below average shooter, lacking 1st step) and it made him a liability on offense.
The problem is that teams went with "he's 21, too old!"
The age obsession kills me. 18-21 still young kids
For PG’s, I thought it was Lamelo, Cole Anthony, I counted Maxey as one, And then Tyrese. I wasn’t familiar with Hayes at all until drafts season. I wasn’t impressed with his stats, but he kept getting Harden comps. I didn’t expect Tyrese to become as good as he has been, but If that kid could become 75-80% of prime Harden (that passes more than shoots), then Detroit might have stolen one. That was my thought at the time.
Quite ironic he says this cuz what we understand he was telling teams don’t draft me so would end up at Sac Town
Great video idea 💯
KOC got cooked for the killian take at the time and never stopped getting cooked for it
I mean, some of these articles were saying he was #1 or #2, but no one from the top 6 actually got him. And we don't know for sure, maybe if the Pistons didn't take him, he would've gone much lower. We'll never know!
That whole draft was supposed to be a terrible draft. Nobody was suppose to be a star. Just shows what scouts or so called sports writers say about prospects. Sorry but the fact is teams make mistakes and the Pistons done shiat the bed on that pick
I actually really hope another team picks up killian. Teams are very impatient with PGs these days could be nice to see him with a change of scenery
I really hope so as well..especially with all this now
Killian Hayes being #1 is CRAZY in hindsight lol
Not event just hindsight but at the time too… most mocks drafts had him barley cracking the top 10 if not just outside the top 10.
Taylor books 😂😂
Poor kirspy 😢 hang in there buddy!!
I think what Halliburton means is that cade is a really good pg
You can look up any article and try to shake this how you want. Big L for the pistons. And that cbs article has Hayes over Edwards which everyone knew wasn’t the case. Stop it fam
We still need that top 100 list krispy
Tyrese is our revenge for tyshaun prince 😎😈
Why people still take prospects who struggled in lower levels and expect them to be something in the NBA are beyond me.
Theyre the EXCEPTIONS not the RULE
I think for the vast majority of the time, it’s a *very* poor choice to say the least… like you said, there’s _exceptions_ to the rule but they’re just that, EXCEPTIONS. Like for example, (this is gonna be about the NFL, not the NBA but still works) I think the Colts drafting Anthony Richardson could potentially be one of the exceptions to the rule. Because while yes he did struggle in college, there was plenty of reasons there to believe that’s not indicative of just how good he can be. Some of those things being…
1.) he had very poor talent around him unlike Bryce Young and CJ Stroud.
2.) he’s still very young and only started 13 games in college.
3.) What his stat line doesn’t show is that even though his first half of the season was pretty poor, he was improving by quite a bit in the second half.
4.) Then of course… his FREAK athleticism.
Pistons management shouldn’t be looking at mock drafts from “analysts”
Tyrese talking like he WANTS to be in that Detroit situation 😭
There wouldn't be a Detroit situation if hali was there.
Passing on Mitchell was just as bad
Show Jay Glazers board where Hali was 4 and Hayes wasn’t top 4.
LOL Detroit continually taking L's you can see why they are in the position they are
WEAVER AND MONTY need to go!
We could have had talent!
and Weaver wanted Monty,
They both go down togethe.
Doesnt this sound like the situation with Carmelo and Pistons screwing him over in the draft?
Great video
Man Krispy...
This seems like an overly touchy subject for you. You are overreacting to the semantics of what Hali said. Killian must have really hurt you...
listen i should be in a NBA frontoffice i called killian being a bust i wanted detroit to get Cole Anthony still not the right pick but hes at least a solid 12/4/4 guy on 44/33/84
I'm sick of this 💩! The last thing Pistons fans need right now is to be reminded for the umpteenth time how we should've drafted Haliburton or any other player we missed out on please cut this out.
Thank god neither Booker or Halliburton were drafted by this horrible franchise.
I told everybody I knew that he was gonna be really fuckin good in the NBA. If you watched him in college(which I doubt many did), you could tell he was solid. But I saw the upside many saw with Killian. Now one’s an NBA all star and arguable best PG in the league, and the other a bum
To feel the best? Nah he is best pg top 10 baby 😂😂
I mean y'all are all salty bout Killian Hayes lol
take him out of the freezer lmao
Dw about responding to Hali. He's not gonna spond you in the first place
Haliburton is annoying...
So your basically excusing the pistons for not taking a guy that draft scouts all agreed would’ve been better than the guy the pistons actually took😂😂😂
Weaver is a terrible GM and the guy he drafted in his first draft as GM was so bad that he got released 4 years later.
You can’t look at mock drafts from analysts , they don’t know what they’re doing most of the time. That’s an NBA scout’s job
True that because analysts are out the loop sometimes like having whitmore at 5
@@Htiy I’m a rockets fan so I’m good with that draft fumble 😂
Tyrese is not the best point guard in that draft it’s lamelo he just isn’t healthy rn but when he plays he’s clearly better than Halliburton hell he’s not even the best Tyrese in his class
how you not know taylor rooks man
I think you just wanted to say Killian 😊
Wdym?
I see you with that 90 wc
Been grinding
Its not about what TH felt its about Troy Weaver being completely incompetent.
Troy Weaver is trash just admit. Stop making excuses for the man.
He was gifted Cade who can do everything but shoot.... so he needed to surround him with shooting and instead he's drafted 3 straight athletes that cant shoot. None of them, besides Cade, can even dribble with their heads up.
Troy Weaver needs to be fired yesterday.
Don’t be mad at Haliburton because your team is ass
👍
😂😅😂
469th like😤